Latest / Graymalkin Lane the podcast / Hellhunters! With Phillip Kennedy Johnson, DJ McIver, and Josh Bruckner!

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Hellhunters! With Phillip Kennedy Johnson, DJ McIver, and Josh Bruckner! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grey Morgan Lane podcast, where queer friends and allies gathered to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Except once in a while we take a modern story set in the old continuity and just celebrate it.
• 0:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: And boys at a treat when we get the creator of said series back for a wonderful episode.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: The incredible Phil Kennedy Johnson is here.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: as well as two of my very favorite friends, Josh Brugner and DJ McIver and Philip, you may recognize Josh has the last name, Brugner, which is also the name of the Supervillator, this title.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: What?
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: What?
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: For you.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: Everybody else, a fun surprise.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry about that.
• 0:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's actually named after one of my favorite composers, so I'm sorry about that.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was wondering where you'd gotten the name from, because it's not super common.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, no, it's a great, great classical composer named Brookner, and as a, as a brass guy, I know about him.
• 0:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: Philip is a military guy, a music guy, a comics guy.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: You'll learn that.
• 1:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I had a family man, of course.
• 1:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, we'll be working in different parts of your, your methodology as we go here.
• 1:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: Alright, we're going to be reviewing the five issue limited series Hellhangers, which just came out last year in 2025.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: The art is by Adam Gorum, who I adore.
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: I've had Adam on the show.
• 1:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: I have Adam's art.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh cool.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't know that.
• 1:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: He drew Magneto for me.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: I just saw the big Adam fan.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: Frank Martin, Travis Lennon, and my friend Jordan White round out this team.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: Let me welcome my three guests.
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm going to have you each introduce yourselves.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: and I want to know what hell is going to be like for you.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: If you do go to hell, what will it be like?
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: So welcome back first to Philip Kennedy Johnson, of course.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, Philip.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, great to see you again, Chad, and to meet these other awesome people.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's looking forward to talking about some Nazi shit with this with this group.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: What would hell be like for you?
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: This you see event from the other day.
• 1:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's it bummed me out because it just takes so Josh and DJ probably don't know this, but Sorry, it's a Joshua Joshua when you go by Josh is good.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so I was in a military band for my whole army career for 20 years and I know a lot of people in the DC bands.
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love music.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love performing music.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love NMA and Judith Sue and Boxing and I might be called a Patriot in another life and I To see all that stuff kind of come together in front of the White House and like the
• 2:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: to see it all kind of smooshed together in the grossest douche baguess way possible was unfortunate.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just kind of really brought, I don't know, just kind of cheap and everything.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's cheap and every element that was that was there.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cheap and combat sports, cheap and uh, the national mall, um, things that were said there were really gross and pathetic and that was just really really bummed me out.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: So like that mean awful people being mean and awful.
• 2:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: like I don't need I don't need fighters to be nice guys like I you know like I understand that there's like you know like we all like to scrap and it's fine it's just but to be like ignorant and crude pathetic and like the guy this one guy that came out for the for the weigh-ins was like he was like look like he'd spent the nights getting himself or acting used peaking all himself and this is all in front of this is all like in the national mall it's just gross it just it just misrepresented every part of me like if anyone I don't people here that I used to be musician or the army or that I was
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that I do jiu-jitsu or any of those things and associate me with with that whole spectacle, so that was pretty pathetic.
• 3:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know you're probably meant your question in a light-hearted way and also light-hearted answer.
• 3:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: Wherever you are at is great, and I love your willingness to speak truth to whatever you're going through emotionally, my friend.
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's one of my thoughts.
• 3:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just want to be able to like the shit I like and not have it be gross.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 3:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, let me also welcome DJ Amicaib or back to the show.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: DJ, how lovely to see you for me.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a place without music really that was amazing.
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: The first.
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's the first thing that for me.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: I learned how to I guess escape outside of actually.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just the first place that I learned how to escape.
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: So for me a place without music.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like I don't even know how to press myself and I don't know how to get so that is help and Joshua Brookner is here everyone hi Josh what is everyone for you good question I'm going to go with it's a party where it's way too loud it's a lot of sensory overload I don't know anyone I'm not having a great time and there's no way for me to escape which is definitely not based on real life experiences.
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: Lastly, of course, I'm Chad, I grew up with Mormon religion, shit, and how is kind of weirdly complicated.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: They'll define it in one term as like fire and rimstone.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: In another term, the Mormons will describe it as what they call a lack of progression.
• 4:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: So like the good Mormons who die can continue advancing up the evolutionary corporate pyramid ladder, whatever,
• 4:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: But people who are in hell are stuck.
• 4:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: But there's a certain version of hell for Mormons called Outer Darkness, where you are just kind of don't exist anymore.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: You're like excised from the rest of the universe.
• 4:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, in August on my show, we're doing a whole month dedicated to the Dark Force, which, of course, fill up.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: I want to talk to you all about which, but we won't.
• 5:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because of bloodhuts and everything that you've done there.
• 5:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: But there's an interesting kind of idea about this kind of cosmic nothingness out there that I'm really interested to explore on the show.
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, there is a local coffee company that makes Mormon themed coffee, like X-Mormon themed restaurant.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's called Temple Ground, which is amazing, and their darkest roast is called outer darkness.
• 5:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I drink some yesterday, so it's a good answer.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: However, good answer.
• 5:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: personal hell would actually be like neverending doorways and every door contains something I hate.
• 5:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: The first room would for sure be IKEA furniture assembly and then I'd be like stuck in an airplane bathroom and like every door would just be something horrible and like you just keep going forever.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: Philip we're gonna open on the title hell hunters.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Where did you come up with this title?
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: And what does it mean to hunt hell?
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, we took some time to sort out the title.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember what we were calling the thing initially, um, but I remember that I was not in love with, I had like a, kind of a placeholder title and I didn't love it and they didn't love it and we be kicked around a few.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in the end, I just kind of made an executive decision.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like, I like, Hellhunter's most of the ones that we're talking about.
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, this is it.
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is the one.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: My friend, Erica Schulz was doing blood hunters around the same time.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm remembering.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's Hellendrous is it came from, okay.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the book was pitched initially to be Marvel's Inglory of Spastards, just Marvel's most iconic killers from World War II, just mowing down Nazis.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's just my, my Nazi kill fantasy that I just need to put out there in the world right now.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what the book was always meant to be, and as far as the title, it just seemed closest, because the nucleus of the team that around which the rest of the team kind of coagulates is Ghost Rider 44.
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: We see him get murdered by these supernatural Nazis in the beginning, and he's killed, and then this crow shows up, and makes this bargain with him, and brings him back, kind of like the crow from the old movies, and he gets he's able to avenge himself.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as he's kind of on his on the road to getting revenge on these on his Nazi
• 7:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Peggy Carter and, you know, Logan and Sebastian Zardo some teenage cycle bucky and the only guy that I knew could not be on the team is cap because this is a team on which cap should have no place.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like people like Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson are just grossly too virtuous to be on a team like the hell hunters.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to, I like the, the hell kind of motif that goes right to represents and the fact that they are actively hunting this one particular Nazi officer.
• 7:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: The whole time just kind of
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, it's kind of just the ring of it, like the whole like the symmetry of the age age thing and a lot of a lot of reasons, so like at this kind of where am I, where am I mind kind of settled so hell hunters the limited series comes out of your recent run on the Hulk which is now in its second volume and I know there's a giant massive Hulk event coming up that will of course talk about at the end.
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: We've talked a little on the show about a Phillips-Holkron, but it's very epic monster.
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's very bale, wolf, every arc is Hulk versus some sort of massive ancient monster that has like deep magic and it's very body horror in ways that are truly horrifying.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: And early on in the series, we meet a new ghostwriter character, Sal Ramaro, who is from the World War II.
• 8:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: era and it's a ghost right away haven't seen before.
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a little popularity.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: He gets a little spin-off series here where he's teeming up with Wolverine and other characters during World War II.
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you want to talk a little bit about the creation of Sal Ramara?
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's see.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I so actually I was approached about writing the ghost writer series years ago and I was
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was grossly too busy to do it at the time.
• 8:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was I was still active to your me.
• 8:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was doing like four other books or something and comics and I couldn't really I would have to have given up a book To do it and I was in the middle of a bunch of stories I really cared about so I couldn't take it then, but I was also on my bullshit as far as like politics and not speak.
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: All the Nazi stuff is kind of starting to become more prominent, you know, like, and you just, it's starting to become more and more clear.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, well, wait, if you let me do a World War II book where I introduce a new Ghost Rider, where he's like, mowing down Nazis, I'll do that.
• 9:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh, please, let me see if we can make that work.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they talk to the powers to be over there and they're like, no, they really wanted to be Johnny Blaze and I was like, I'm busy.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: What I kept thinking about this idea, like the idea kept kind of calcifying and becoming a little more re- and I was like, damn, do what would I look like if I could actually got to do a World War II era Ghost Rider book.
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of started to conceive of it as a team book instead, that with him is the main character.
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: But with all these other characters that were really fun, every issue we produce a new member of the Hell Hunters and all becomes this big revenge mission, you know.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, uh, my good friend, uh, Jonas Sharf, great German artist.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm about to work with again on another thing.
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Which is gorgeous, which is not just not announced.
• 9:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he and I are about to do a thing together.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's incredible.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, he and I had been a creator on book together.
• 9:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, hey, I've, I just pitched him on the idea as I could do some sketches for me.
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he sketched up what the characters would look like.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, showed him around the offices and they liked it.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone liked it.
• 10:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're all excited about it.
• 10:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then, you know, everyone's busy doing other books.
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there was no like mandate to do it.
• 10:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was actually that particular arc, who's called War Devil.
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: It centers in part around this little boy named Leo.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Leo was based on a kid named Uzaya who was killed in the Abaldi shooting in Texas.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was a huge Spider-Man fan.
• 10:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: He liked his dad, his adopted father, his become this huge champion of God control and of, you know, legislation and all that.
• 10:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's just fearless.
• 10:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's really devoted his life to this ever since Uzaya's passing.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: At some point he said something online about like wanting his son to be in a comic book and somebody saw it and sent it to me and he and I got in touch and so we put we called him Leo and book because Uzaya was a he was a that was his his birth sign was Leo and he was very proud of it.
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So now there's this kid named Leo with the like a spider man shirt all the time and the spirit of vengeance instead of being the guy on the bike the spirit of vengeance in the story because the like the guardian angel for this little boy.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: The kid is in need.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's hanging out on this migrant worker camp, like once it exists down in Texas, and that's where he and his crew kind of live.
• 11:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And these things come for the for the migrant workers.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then this this old beat down Harley Davidson, like World War 2 era, a scene in Queen kind of kind of Harley kind of roars a life.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's like Sal Romero rises from the grave to protect his great net as great nephew.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's where the idea for the character kind of came from.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I pitched the idea for the book of live on a panel, sitting next to C.B.
• 11:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sybolski and people were going around like, was it was the team book you'd like to write?
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, I got one.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I pitched that story about the cast and the whole, I mean, the audience was like talking in tongues excited about it.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And C.B.
• 11:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: was like,
• 11:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Greenlit, I was like, I'm going to hold you that.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do this.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then when we did the when the goes right to 44 arc of Hulk came out, it was really well received and the art that Nick Klein, the first appearance of sale, this is a big two page spread that sold an auction for some crazy amount of money and Marvel found out about that.
• 11:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're like,
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, people of this character, let's do this book.
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is my long-witted answer.
• 12:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: How we came, how I got to get around to sell Romero, who's named after another musician.
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's named after the former Trump player at New Mexico State University.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bonsoir Romero, a good guy and a good friend.
• 12:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And deserves to be immortalized.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I put him in Marvel Comics.
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: This fact of it is interesting to know one bit me, but I've been sharing little snippets as I go, so I worked on the Marvel Handbooks and in the late like 20-ought era I pitched a bunch of books tomorrow.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: They didn't ask me to, but I worked really hard on a whole bunch of different things trying to make it into the business.
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: One of the books I wrote was based on a group called Freedom's Five
• 12:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: which is a five-member group that was active during World War I.
• 12:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they only show up in one issue of the invaders in like 1977.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's these kind of odd characters.
• 12:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: Their names are like crimson Cavalier, Berser Steel, and the Silver Squire, and like Union Jacks are recognizable name.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I love their litard of names, don't they?
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: In a mortal iron fist era, when like Worsen Randall was running around, James Robinson used these characters in twang.
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's awesome.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: An issue of all new invaders.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: But when I put my pitch in for this series, which of course was not Greenland nor was either right person to write it, I put a ghost writer of the team because there's a couple of ghost writers who were active during World War I, one was introduced in 1997, which is the one I was using.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: And another was created.
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think by Jason Aaron in Avengers Ronda, which is
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: Also, theories that introduced Sebastian Sardos, the exactly green thing we're going to be talking about today, just a minute.
• 13:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's an interesting kind of Marvel war history.
• 13:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's some precedent for putting ghost writers in more complex.
• 13:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jason's was a tanker.
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that right?
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: The one from World War I that Jason's was the ghost flyer.
• 13:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: It was like a guy in an old wooden airplane pilot.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: What a parents, I think, so interesting.
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we're gonna get lost in this series in a moment that DJ and then Josh, I'd love to hear what were your early thoughts on Hell Hunters and are there any horror genres that you kind of thought of or like films that you love that you saw kind of emulated in this series?
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: No bullshit guys, I want to hear your own thoughts.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can take it for me.
• 14:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think first definitely in glorious best 100% you said that I'm like, all right, that completely clicks with me.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then the Normandy scene definitely felt like a little bit saving private Ryan my dad is a airport retired Air Force.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that really got me in the beginning of this is the use of and.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: to a musical note, the use of sound effects.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think in that whole first issue, I was like, this is amazing.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that I had ever really in comic, read something where the flow of everything felt very deliberate with the sound design.
• 14:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, for me to say, I thought about the sound design of this entire mini, that was the most compelling part.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, cool.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad.
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: The colors amazing as well.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just going to throw this in quick track.
• 14:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: I hate that I know this fact, but the porn parody of saving private Ryan is a movie.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: It exists.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: I've never seen it, but I, it's, it's called shaving Ravens Ryan's privates.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
• 15:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, sorry.
• 15:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: They're really good to give us back to Nova.
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now you all know it with me.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Josh, same question.
• 15:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I thought it was a really fun team.
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like, I feel like everyone that was introduced was kind of a little bit of a surprise.
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not very familiar with the World War II era.
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Marvel stuff.
• 15:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: So for me, seeing like, you know, oh, here's the source for Supreme, but he's also a soldier was fun.
• 15:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for a second.
• 15:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to get Captain America on the team.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nope.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's Bucky Barnes.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: These kind of like really out there, like this 15 year old is like, I wanted to collect not years and make a necklace out of it.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to smoke.
• 15:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, who are you?
• 15:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot of fun to read.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the villains were very well done, very scary.
• 15:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I found Salad very compelling.
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Go strider both.
• 15:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he had very good visuals and just from like, you know, like following him is like, yeah, I want this guy to succeed.
• 15:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, absolutely, we should get revenge even though we know from the characters in the narrative saying, if maybe revenge is not a great thing to go for, he's like, I still want it anyway and you're on his side.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a very satisfying romp I would say.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Josh, if you want to lead us in just to touch, we open on a soldier named Felix Brukner, who's a Nazi.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's leading a group of Nazi soldiers.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's 1943.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: They are in trouble.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: They are dying.
• 16:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: They find kind of an undead horse carcass in the road, and there's some like uninteresting undead animal sigils, and they end up making a deal with a demon named Calfayel.
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, of course, as soon as I saw the name Brukner, I always love to hang out with you, but of
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: where was my first call?
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think your family has some interesting ties to World War II.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you want to talk about that?
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this comic was a very funny kind of way to dive back into that.
• 16:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: So my grandfather on my mother's side, whose name was Cohen, which is he Cohen appears in this comic too, so that was another.
• 16:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: After Pearl Harbor, my grandfather Cohen was Jewish and he signed up for the Air Force after Pearl Harbor so we could go to Europe and fight the Nazis and he was an navigator on a bomber, flew a lot of missions out of England over Nazi occupied France.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Was it at D-Day during that whole thing?
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have his war journal where he kept a log of all the missions he was on so we have notes of him from that mission which is pretty amazing.
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm very proud of my
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's a really, you know, that's always been not personal connection to World War II stores.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is imagining kind of him and these scenarios are like, you know, tying it back to like things I know about.
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Plain he was on or looked at kinds of missions that were run, it kind of grounds me in the whole thing.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, seeing the name Brockner on the page every now and then where they're referring to this like horrendous demons.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, and then there's that too.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: in my head.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, okay, this guy is grouping or one because he's very German to because I have to create that distance.
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_06]: I've shared on my show I did all the red skull chats for quite some time.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: My mother's first cousin was one of the do little Raiders.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: His name's Chase Janielson.
• 17:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: He was kept as a prisoner of war for years.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: DJ does your family have connection to World War II?
• 18:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not World War II.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think my grandfather's spot, both fought in Korea.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Lots of Korea, Vietnam, and then my whole, my father's side, everyone is a veteran from, I say, my dad was in Tevisert Storm, did poison, Iraq.
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: Afghanistan, but nothing as far back as world.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's still very similar where it's like in terms of war, movies, and stuff.
• 18:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: My father loved all of these war movies.
• 18:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I myself loved Hemingway as a writer, so farewell with arms.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just really loved
• 18:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love that so much.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of really let the bacon pressure on.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's incredible.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's just like anyway, in general, I think that whole entire field, the kind of introspection and the uneasiness of how to approach war.
• 18:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: is what kind of resonates with me as the most.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I kind of definitely thought that a lot in this many series.
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then Philip, I don't think I've ever asked you.
• 19:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: If your family, your heritage, I think, has connected to military stuff.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you have any World War II history in the Johnson line?
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, not that I know of.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, I'm not as tight with my family's.
• 19:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I might be.
• 19:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, I've got my, I have an uncle that served in the Air Force use a pile.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's mostly a trainer of pilots and he would have been around the age for via Tom, but as far as what we're too, not to not to my knowledge.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, the selection of characters, the one I want to ask you about quickly, we're going to focus on a Wolverine of the story, a promise.
• 19:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: Your use of the soldier's supreme was really interesting to me.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: So this guy Sebastian Shardos is a Jason Aaron character.
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: He only has eight appearances ever and five of them are in your list.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Corey.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but he's connected maybe it's Mark Ali Shardos.
• 19:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was the last member to join the team as I was kind of putting the book together and at first I felt like he was necessary, but as I was looking to team and their power sets and what they all bring is that their value to the team aside from just being tough.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's all these continuity reasons why Wolverines not used as claws more or two because there's, you know, I can't even remember all the details, but I guess that the supposedly if you if you go if follow the rules of continuity, he doesn't you didn't know that he had him back then or something.
• 20:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right, some kind of a thing like that.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's so we couldn't show Wolverine with this with his plos he could just seem getting real torn up and then he recovered.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we could have Ghost Rider giving like kind of a loaning his power to others or he can like power up other other people's rifles and I kind of think, but he was pretty much the only teeth on the team and we can't talk about that Jordan and I did and we were like, well, what else could we do?
• 20:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I then we realized that Jason had recently introduced Sebastian Zardos and and he is.
• 20:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: he was introduced in kind of almost like a throw off kind of way like he's not an essential character in that story, but um it is some digging and he's then he turns out he was intended to be part of the 616 universe like the main continuity universe and not just some other some of the universe as I thought so that kind of made him perfect um that was that was a way in which we could you know give a little more supernatural bent to the to the story in a way that reflected the villains and the whole
• 21:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: story that's going to tie this miniseries in with future arcs, so I want to do more helenters.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Spoiler, we're going to see the helenters come back in in Hulk War.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, of course.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's going to be dope as hell, but there's also, I want to do more the way that we introduce the unhallowed, the those like man-made demons kind of that Alexander and Nightbringer creates.
• 21:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's more of those out there.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: We just found the first one.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's there's many more and there's also Alexander herself.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: As you guys happen to read, no, I shouldn't be basking this as rude, but if you've read Dungeons of Doom at the very end, there's a little epilogue that introduces out Senator Nybringer.
• 21:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember the thing with the kid kind of singing and throwing shit into the hole and then that's when my neck comes out and that's her?
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, okay, okay, okay.
• 21:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're gonna get to this in just a moment.
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: I want to open in issue five, the mission is over and all of the characters are assembled before a military general that's kind of breaking the fourth wall for us just a little bit.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is...
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is Phillips.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: It comments on like the team selection.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: This general says to the group I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to do with you my old platoon sergeant Sergeant Woody would be rolling in his grave if he saw how we fight wars now I got women fighting like they was men Snot-nosed kids dressed up like the lone ranger deserving whenever they've been mine too And Bucky says I didn't deserve nothing and
• 22:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to zip it buck.
• 22:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: I got a Canadian who smells like he ain't showered his whole life who don't even stand at attention when he's addressed by an officer and Inferton who doesn't know the grooming rags who kills Nazis with magic tricks instead of bullets and I got you Nick say you're me You got five and listed who just saved the damn world but broke every rule in the uniform
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: code of military justice doing it.
• 22:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: What would you do?
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: And they're all going to warrant Silver Stars.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: I read the characterization of all of this.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: DJ talked to me about this team.
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So this is what I, I love a good team book and I think this kind of many series really puts into perspective the things that I like.
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've got garnish who I feel like is actually the kind of soul of the team.
• 23:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Got the sole sorcerer's to claim powers, but then there is a wisdom that comes from seeing war that I feel like really he's able to put into perspective, a lot of what's going on.
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And issue two, he says monsters tend to find each other sometimes creating them.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is like far away the the most powerful line of the whole entire book that I kind of feel like encapsulate everything that we're doing here.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because we're introducing the unhallowed, we've got Bucky here who
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think Stardosh is afraid that he's turning into a monster, or is becoming a monster on this mission.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've got Peggy who we all know what she has been as a character in the MC Urma in the sixth one, sixth, previous year, but I think this is definitely now we're making Peggy out to be this even bigger, larger than life character in the sixth one, sixth.
• 24:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: such a capable soldier, and then we've got Logan's who is exactly who he's always been, and but more than that, I think we see with him, someone who we see a resilient,
• 24:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't want was resilience here, and then we've got Nick who is relatively calmer and fresher than we usually generally see so I think it's just a really cool combination adding with how Dallas new to this ghostwriter thing.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then very classically ghost writer, it's such a fun combination where we've got the heart of the team is maybe cat just for that one issue that he's there he really manages who kind of bind everyone together, but then send them off with a very good direct and so it's just such a fun combination in the way that everyone interact heading towards
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: Adam's pencils are incredible, always, drawing a war comic and the color schemes in this are beautiful is really incredible.
• 25:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a lot of horror here, obviously.
• 25:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's a lot of genres of world war too kind of war films from comedy to horror and everything in between.
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, my favorite single image in this whole series is the cover of issue number three, which I think captures a lot of the themes that I'm so fascinated by.
• 25:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I also have to come in the art, which I found like incredible, um, just a really great way to pick into characters and kind of showing some really disgusting moments like the, um, giant monster made out of corpses.
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, the cover to issue three is, um,
• 25:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: a bunch of dead Nazis in a sunset field with a smoldering tank in the background and in the foreground is Bucky Barnes kind of sat up on a rock.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a gun with a bunch of tally marks resting on his knee.
• 26:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's chewing some bubble gum and looks very, very casual over this field of carnage just like, you know, on the farm watching the sunset, not a care in the world.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, and like the sun and the distance as like the horizon of what comes next past all the blood is brilliant.
• 26:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: But so many war stories for me are about like we're writing them for little kids.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: Bucky's a literal teenager who's chopping off ears and glorying in all this.
• 26:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, chewing bubble gum like he's Jubilee in the foreground covered in blood.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: But also, and this is a thing we see in all war comics no matter what we wanted to be.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: Holding just the giantest penis gun right over his crotch, right?
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: just something so fowl like about like I want to be a grown-up with like this destructive capability which is interesting.
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: Bucky's portrayal in this as like the earnest soldier committing slaughter balanced by Wolverine, Philip, who I kind of see you writing Wolverine in this series as just berserker the whole time.
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's in like berserker mode.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's he's saber-tooth.
• 27:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's serial killer.
• 27:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: I am hacking people to death with knives like through this whole portion with Peggy of course
• 27:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's how feggie is.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you want to talk about the juxtaposition fill up a writing a character like Bucky next to a character like Wolverine in this?
• 27:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, man.
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bucky was just a joy to write.
• 27:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like writing Bucky in this book was probably the most fun of that in any character ever.
• 27:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: The final issue where you picking his nose for like three panels and they're like Bucky.
• 27:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like most of the pages like what yeah, I love that he he's still just a goddamn kid and he's he's in war And I feel like we never really talk about that.
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was he's like Robin except he has to have killed tons and tons of people and What's that duty?
• 27:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know like I didn't want to I didn't want to try it away to kind of I didn't want to explain to the way and come a book He was like I was colleagues who cares.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: How much like yeah, but what would that look like though?
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's the kid look like when he's, you know, he's becoming, he's not adult.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's slowly becoming an adult during this period of intense trauma in violence.
• 28:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: What would that be like?
• 28:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to see him going through the same kind of emotions in normal kid would kind of sniffle and sulk and then be mad at his dad.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he's mad because dumb, dumb, dogan took away his ear necklace because that's his ear in it.
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, what took my necklace?
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was mine.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Later when Cap says, sorry, guys, I can't go.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, Colonel says, I can't go.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: I
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he's like, fuck that, I'll go and they're like, you can't go.
• 28:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, Sebastian's artist is like, no, absolutely not.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, he just, he never agrees.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: He never says, yes, he's like, this is a mistake.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to pay for this.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they kept saying, I think it was like, Captain, he madzellia can't take you.
• 28:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they just keep, and Wolverine's just kind of watching and finally buck, they changed the, they changed the, the book.
• 28:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And originally, what was supposed to happen?
• 28:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they, so Marvel has this strict no tobacco policy.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: that cover that you like, but supposed to be bucky smoking.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now I do actually prefer the bubble gum when we when we get to the bubble gum it works better.
• 28:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: But initially, it was supposed to be a cigarette.
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in the book when bucky's trying to talk everybody into letting him go, he said he says, come on Nick, let me have a cigarette, too.
• 29:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let me let me bum a smoke, too.
• 29:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's kind of like,
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Wolverine kind of chuckles, and I was kind of looking at him like this kid's amazing.
• 29:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what happened in the script and actually Adam already drew it and everything before they said no Nick pulls out a cigarette and he's like don't tell cap.
• 29:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he gives him a cigarette and he takes it and he lets him go and then marbles like no way we can't do this like come on man.
• 29:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the 40s let alone know the cigarette and they said they said no, so we had to kind of patch some are so this is a couple little things that don't.
• 29:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: really makes sense and the art that didn't, you know, because it was almost print time and they caught it real late.
• 29:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, I just I love the juxtaposition of the kid stuff.
• 29:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he the fact he doesn't know when he music, he doesn't know any songs because he is becoming who he is in wartime.
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's never he, he didn't grow up.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like the other kids did, like plan, you know, you know, plan, and
• 29:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Jax or whatever in the street with the friends are riding bikes or that stuff.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just Eve is he was just a war So like another kid to listen to the radio or sing and songs doing school yard stuff he was shooting people So he's like oh wait well, no, I know the I know the jodie calls that we do that way you're run to I'll sing one of those They're like don't sing and jodie call
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then when we see him kind of like giggling and singing a singing like a cadence call like it's a written like it's a Taylor Swift song, while he's mowing down Nazi monsters that just kind of sums up that was so fun to write that some those jodie calls are real we that that particular one I made up, but there's they whenever they the army runs us there's always these little songs that we sing when we're in formation so I like the idea that Bucky only knows the only music that he knows and when the other adults listen to him say that they're like them the passions write skits fucked up and we shouldn't take them so
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: So you place all of this in the history of the war really beautifully.
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: We open on the Nazi soldiers on the run in Russia.
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's a lot of infamous history where the Nazis were initially allies with Russia and then they invaded Russia, but there was just so much land and then that intense winter and they got caught on all of that.
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: The final monster that we get to is like a winter given form, right?
• 30:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like the horror of this winter war.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll get to that with Calfile and a little while.
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: But we also have Nazi occupied France, which is where our heroes are getting together and traveling across so really beautiful setting up of all of this and we never try to explain even one time on the page here why the Nazis must be killed like it just it's it's it's unquestionable so Philip writing Wolverine and again they're all committing murders, but Bucky is the child committing the slaughter, but writing Wolverine with these blades did you enjoy that journey for this character.
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did.
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was pretty fun.
• 31:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would have loved to have given him proper cloth.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we do in the end.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also kind of fun to see him.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And writing a love the idea that Logan has had a long, rich, violent, but also like full and rich life before the X men existed.
• 31:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he will have a long, rich, full life after the X men are gone.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he is to me, Logan is like this undying thing that is like humanity's companion that will always be there.
• 31:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean,
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: Wolverine falls into an odd category of Marvel, much like Captain America and Nick Fury, frankly, where we give a lot of modern writers, like, who do you want to do a short story in something like Marvel Comics presents or Marvel Comics, like Black White and Red?
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: And so writers will just kind of write stories about Wolverine's history.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then when I was writing the handbooks, it was my job to try to stack them all up.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: So I used to be so, oh my God, by the continuity of it all,
• 32:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: But I know I know what a long journey it is to try to stack all of this up.
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: I love that you just fit it in place and it just fits because that's where it fits, right?
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like it doesn't matter.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: We've put it in 1943 and that's what happened.
• 32:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm working on a story right now that's going to help make sense of all that.
• 32:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, for you.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've got to, I've got a cleansing story that's going to make sense of Wolverine's continuity.
• 32:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: At least it will help.
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: I can't wait.
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's exciting.
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to, you're going to love it.
• 32:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to talk about it.
• 32:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Josh, do you enjoy Wolverine chronology?
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wolverine chronology is very confusing, especially because like you were saying like they just keep sticking in more and more places and as I was reading this, Nick Fury shows up Wolverine shows up and just like these guys just keep popping up with the most convenient times for like stories to happen.
• 33:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I get there everywhere in Europe as it turns out.
• 33:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think continuity is a big snarled mess especially when you try and like you know, they
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: everything makes sense for like you know little like I guess short stories from mini series like this where it's like kind of like a side quest to almost I'm like yeah it happens I don't need to figure out when it happened but it happened sometime nebulously in the 40s and that's all I need to know I don't need like it's precisely tracking or what we could happen then with all rooms doing something else than in some other book that was written like 30 years ago it's like it all happened.
• 33:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
• 33:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not precious.
• 33:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I know this question was not for me.
• 33:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not precious with a continuity.
• 33:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are some people that are my friend Jeremy Adams at DC.
• 33:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's he is a huge continuity nerd.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wants to know what but time and day stuff is happening so that it all makes sense together.
• 33:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you read all of it together, I don't know.
• 33:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's only going to get harder as time goes on.
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Comics are still a relatively young medium.
• 33:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: People are still going to be writing Wolverine 100 years now.
• 33:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be unthinkably packed.
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So just who cares?
• 33:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just, you know, just write stories that are cool and fun and
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, nowadays, the writer just jumps on Chad G. P. T. And says, hey, where did Wolverine do this?
• 34:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Wolverine in World War I, what should I read?
• 34:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
• 34:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: So a horror is a fascinating genre.
• 34:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: I've done a lot of conversations about horror on the show.
• 34:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: I love a haunted house, but I'm fascinated by the structure that goes into haunted houses.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: If you guys go to like a good haunted house around Halloween time these days, pay attention to all the different types of horror they try to weave in.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's the people jumping around things, but there's the clowns and the body bags and dissections and electrocutions.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: You go in that room with like the electrical energy like, you know, there's the evil guy with the chainsaw.
• 34:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: And for me, the thing that often will get me most on a haunted house is a shifting texture.
• 34:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: When I'm walking on wood and then suddenly it's like squishy ground, that fix freaks the fuck out of me and smells really get me the smell of the electricity, the chainsaw grease and then like for my kid it's optical stuff.
• 35:00
  [SPEAKER_06]: I remember a haunted house we did last year where you walk into a room and it's kind of like laser lights and smoke so you can't see the lower half of your body.
• 35:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: like almost like you're walking through water, right?
• 35:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: My husband gets really freaked out by darkness and loud noises.
• 35:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm really impressed by the way you write horror.
• 35:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's so many types of horror woven into this five issues alone, which is a really strong front-to-back read.
• 35:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: Josh and then DJ, what are your favorite kinds of horror?
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: What were you freaked out by as we stepped into Hell Hunters?
• 35:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got this is a great question for me because for most of my life, I was a huge harwinny and like didn't want to do anything to do with harr.
• 35:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of very basic harr stuff scared me as a kid and I just kind of avoided harr movies, harr comics, goosebumps books, anything.
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And in recent years, as because a bunch of my friends and loved ones, like love harr in very academic way, I've dipped my toe in more and more and ever appreciated a lot of what the genre has to offer.
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I was able to kind of see a lot of like those influences in this book, um, especially with the um, the unhaled and how they're created by human acts of like complete desecration, um, that I guess in some ways are kind of worse than like the supernatural evil like the demons that have always been there.
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, well, those are almost a force of nature.
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a manifestation of humanity's evil and the things we can do to each other, which
• 36:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of like hits deep I think and there's a lot of modern horror that is kind of like striking a thing like that sinners kind of kept coming to mind as I was reading this even though they're not really that it's fantastic movie but it was just like well we're using this kind of big concepts like you know demons or vampires to tell story about some the evil human humans can do whether it's cross it is a four or structural racism DJ.
• 36:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: 100% it's basically that I love love love love love for I as a kid I use to brain myself to not be afraid of things by watching Jason Freddy Nightmare on Elm Street everything I was like I don't want to be afraid of anything I want to watch every but specifically for this book what I love is it's it's again the theme that of the monsters tend to find each other and
• 37:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Make more amount that part it's the that part of the creation of the unhalo juxtaposing that with ghost writer where it's like, okay, these are two sides of the same coin and so what is the lore and the complications of I guess humanity seeking vengeance what what is the length of which that can really compel you towards darkness what is dark, especially if you're in war fighting against Nazis it's like
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: What if you as a black person thinking, all right, well, we know how the Nazis have how they've made themselves an image of Jim Crow and then to circle that back around on someone like bulky coming in and being of 15 year old having no compunction about having a necklace of ears and then Zarda say we're doing a terrible thing inviting this boy all going to pay for them.
• 38:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: ever said what those bad things are.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's more of the dramatic irony of we know how these characters will be what they will be going later on.
• 38:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is way more horrific, I would say, like a Wolverine Logan in the Weapon X program.
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've got Bucky, the Russian part of it.
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the other thing, too.
• 38:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: is like if we talk about like okay the cold war and what that is in the spirit of that within the unhallowed how and taking into Marvel comics.
• 38:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Lilith who I is one of my favorite kind of demonic constructs and per place in the mythos of Marvel.
• 38:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love the way that things kind of echo back and forth in ways that make you feel
• 38:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: think more about how horrific the entire time.
• 38:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: This series gives me a lot of hereditary, which is interesting.
• 38:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's the animal carcasses, it's the sigils and like the rooms.
• 39:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: But there's a lot of some of them really scary moments for me are like, when the guys jumping out of the plane and like hits his head on a tree,
• 39:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like the the moments of like human brutality, but then we've got this kind of spreading hive mind evil right like the on the the unhaled or killing people and then using them as like you will to create more of themselves.
• 39:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's an interesting and then I'm going to turn this over to you, Philip, I know you have some comments on for here.
• 39:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's an interesting genre of horror related to the female, right?
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: We've talked about this a little on the show before, but like the women's menstrual cycles, there's pregnancy horror, there's the idea of the virgin and like virgin blood and like what it means if a woman takes the life forfeiture of a man through like fucking, or like it's the succubus kind of energy, we've talked a little bit about this in certain places.
• 39:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: But there's a certain kind of misogynistic style to most horror just like there's a misogyny and everything that we witness about like men keeping their women right there's these images that go back and back and back to Dracula and us for out to and everything else about like the woman fucking the monster.
• 40:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: And there's an interesting one.
• 40:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm excited to see what you do with this character, Alexander Knightbringer, who is the witch, who fucks the demon.
• 40:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's the progeny of them, that decadental double race.
• 40:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, do you want to talk about the use of different genres of horror and specifically about Knightbringer herself?
• 40:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm actually really excited you have more plans for this theme.
• 40:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thanks.
• 40:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, first I want to thank you all for giving this such a thoughtful read.
• 40:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like your thoughts here are really very thoughtful and articulate and I really appreciate you giving this such a serious read.
• 40:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for that for all of you.
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And DJ actually reminded me of another like the hellhunter thing.
• 40:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had come up with that title before the book was finished, but I also, it also kind of refers to the way that they are chasing their own damnation and their attempt to take the thing down.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, they're, yes, they're hunting demons, but they're also, they're pursuing their own donation to get it done.
• 40:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: The thing that was so compelling to me about that, I wanted to make compelling about Alexander Nightbringer was that I like the idea of the, the witch from the, from the witch trial and the burnings.
• 41:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was actually the real deal.
• 41:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like she was so, she wasn't content to just have whatever little bit of power the devil would, would grant her, but she wanted actually be the guy.
• 41:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like she, she seduced the devil herself, not the other way around.
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like she wanted to carry his child and to be like to actually have her own room, um, place of donation the way that hell is for the devil.
• 41:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: She wanted the earth to be that.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like she wanted to be, that's what she wanted to be.
• 41:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I love the idea that Zarathos, the spirit that we know is Ghost Rider, is offended by the existence of the unhaled.
• 41:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like a demon, like a high on the totem pole demon can see something like the unhaled
• 41:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: me like this is like she they have profane the idea of being a demon like I love that idea that even even they are disgusted as much as an angel would be.
• 41:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll do a proper Ghost Rider origin on my show one time but Zarathos is the demon that powers up Johnny Blaze and other characters like him.
• 42:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's the deal with the devil.
• 42:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's the Faustine bargain that we talked about in the big Mithisto trial a few years back if you guys recall.
• 42:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then you've created Calfile as kind of the counter to that this demon who is like fucking with it And like it's this eldritch horror monster looking for its entrance into the mortal plane in a very different kind of way a very different kind of deal making Yeah, whenever I include magic in a book and all I try to honor the idea that all magic is about bargains like you if you want power You have to pay for it.
• 42:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is something that comes up and magic good deal on none
• 42:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now what you call an expert, but I know that much is something that I have seen discussed quite a lot.
• 42:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's, you know, energy is finite.
• 42:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Power is finite.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everything has a price.
• 42:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was, I was told by somebody who did practice magic.
• 42:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: They said that they, like, for you can, you can get a thing done, but you have to pay for threefold or something like that.
• 42:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's, whatever, whatever you wish upon somebody else.
• 42:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can, you can get that done, but that will be visited upon you in the end three times over.
• 42:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just am fascinated with that nature of what magic is.
• 43:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I tried to bring that you mentioned hereditary and it's beginning to hold bargain between the Nazis that the wounded dying Nazis, the spirit has been trapped in the dead horse and chained up around the tree.
• 43:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like something, somebody trapped Calfail in this horse and chained it to a tree and killed it and just put it where they thought no one would ever find it.
• 43:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then when somebody comes like the thing and the horse sees a thing of like mind, like a kindred spirit in these scared Nazis,
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just love the nature of that bargain and it just that makes it feel like like legit magic to me in the way there's been, you know, explained to me.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: The, well, first of all, fuck Nazis and fuck demons who are willing to make deals with Nazis.
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're here exactly.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's exactly.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I get this is, uh,
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's that cow fails to why we should be pissed at for for lowering yourself to that level.
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now we get the the soldier supreme using some different artifacts in issue two.
• 43:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going back to okay.
• 43:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: We talked about Bucky's giant like machine gun penis like war like I got a I got to like be the bigger guy and like have the bigger dick everything's like you know it's it's
• 44:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: guns, and we also mentioned cigars like just constantly hanging out of like war generals, mouths, Nick Fury, and fatty of Ross always have a giant stoichi between their teeth.
• 44:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: In issue two, Philip introduces a new artifact called a sentient projection rod, and Josh, did you bring yours to show us?
• 44:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: No, a nihilist has a cosmic control rod at any time we see the word rod used.
• 44:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: I have to take a moment and let the fourth grader in me just snicker for a moment.
• 44:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: But in issue 5, we see Zarathos granting Shardos the ability to give our characters kind of a power upgrade.
• 44:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: Zarathos, it's interesting retroactive continuity being what it is used to be an angel and is now consigned to how basically is kind of the thing going on and these these artifact upgrades kind of seem to have a little bit of kind of heaven to them a little bit.
• 44:56
  [SPEAKER_06]: DJ, do you want to talk about our characters upgrades?
• 44:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so everyone's upgrades is a reflection of the power that they will soon have in the you know, so Nick has this glowing eye that we don't necessarily see what it does, but I guess because he's a good shot, it makes him see a lot better and he's got this high-powered, right-heggy, very interestingly, she has a shield, that's not the interesting part.
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: The interesting part is the way, which is just like, oh, that's cool.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's just a very cool, like, out of kind of nowhere to it.
• 45:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've got the heat clause coming back for Wolverine.
• 45:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: Did you also get some little horns?
• 45:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Bucky's got his waming arm, like kind of extends a little bit.
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because I used to buy he-man action figures, right?
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, every variant you'd go buy the toy of, like, so every time we see our characters get upgraded,
• 45:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then Josh, do you want to tell us about the design of Calfile in this final issue by Adam Gore, and he's the giant ice monster.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's glorious.
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, all the monsters are drawn incredibly well, but, um, Calfile taking the form of this like humongous like ice troll or demon or something.
• 46:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just like erupting out about the frozen English channel, um, all of the monsters, especially like right here.
• 46:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: He gave him like really,
• 46:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're faces are discussing they've got these big wicked looking claws even at Daniel works like okay Like they're doing the big monster thing.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, but this guy looks really scary like he's actually going to do some damage And I think he's not just made out of like chunks of ice.
• 46:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's like dead frozen soldier stuck inside of him as well So like there's always that that body horror thing or that thing like oh yeah like this is war There's dead people everywhere and like they kind of become this you know humongous monster
• 46:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's giving like the Night King from game thrones like Epipy up to the size of a mountain.
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we're gonna start winding down our thoughts here.
• 46:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'd love to hear resonant thoughts on what you took from the series.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Philip, I wanna ask your opinion, this is an interesting one that has, I think people have it in Finland that they don't think about it.
• 46:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: Captain America's chain mail shirt in issue three Adam draws cap beautifully with like really textured detail the chain mail so often artists will just kind of skirt past it will put like a little scale in the corner and like just let it be blue otherwise do you have thoughts on on Steve Rogers chain mail.
• 47:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, not really.
• 47:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I don't think about it that much.
• 47:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it's really it's yeah, it's it's a little silly and it doesn't even cover that much.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, is there any use?
• 47:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's fine, but it's just it's just cool looking.
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just kind of harkens to the like the the timeless kind of nature of what cap is.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess like this, I just a little nod to the idea of him being like a, you know,
• 47:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: the like the pallet and you know like the night on the horse kind of saving day that represents truth and heroism and virtue and all that It's kind of just a little not to that idea the way that the wings on the wings on the helmet can be just a little flourish to kind of communicate what you know what he represents So let me have DJ and then Josh go do you have any final thoughts on hell hunters and what you took from it and then where can people find you online and anything each of you'd like to plug in July We're gonna put this out on July 20
• 47:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: My final thought, I, well, mainly is that I love that we're having a great return to magic and how that's a very underlying theme for how to communicate brand majestic evil in the month.
• 48:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I really love Mifisto.
• 48:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I really love nightmare.
• 48:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love ghost writer or specifically these kinds of stories where we can tell something about oh, yes, not these are bad.
• 48:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then there is a humanity that is equally evil because we make choices in our daily lives that.
• 48:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: will come back on and not necessarily any time in that we can see for ourselves how it ripples kind of across.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like this book really does a great job at closing the question of what would you do if you could seek ripping.
• 48:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then what does that look like in the grand scheme of concept.
• 49:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so I
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just found it so fascinating.
• 49:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's something I think that idea of magic and how we can use that as like a alicore or how to really look at our daily life and see how we can affect each other.
• 49:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was just very masterful and entertaining and compelling issue.
• 49:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: In July, you can catch me who knows where I am.
• 49:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm teaching K-pop dance classes like I always.
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: School.
• 49:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: uh you can catch me uh I am Ms. DJ McGyver everywhere on social media.
• 49:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right to see but it can't wait to hang out on August.
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's coming soon.
• 49:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 49:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm glad DJ talked about a lot of the thematic elements that underpin the story because well I really like those for me.
• 49:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oak, the thing that really stuck with me is
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: kind of the way it will all these different characters from different parts of Marvel into this story world video.
• 49:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got to have a fun adventure together.
• 49:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's pulling a lot of new ideas in with the on how load with night, night bringer, just a lot of other things that are mixed together.
• 50:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this feels like a great,
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: kind of like new, um, breathing ground for a lot of other ideas that could become other stories whether it's like, okay, let's put some of these, like, uh, more of our two characters' mother settings.
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we have a sorcerer's supreme for the 444 that we can follow.
• 50:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can do, we can, like, go back to these young characters like Bucky Barnes and, like, see, like, well, what would they actually like?
• 50:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, our Durham is at our messed up side to them.
• 50:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of the, um,
• 50:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: The premonitions, sorry to us, has about saying things like there's always going to be a price for this.
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: We get these cool magic powers, but we're going to have to pay for them at some point.
• 50:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's always just like this hint of like there's another story coming or something else.
• 50:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's another evil that we have to tackle.
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's something that we must pay for and, you know, be wary of it down the road.
• 50:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we know, you know, there's there's always like, you know, evil and throughout history that these characters would have to face and then we have a supernatural element that can underpin them that.
• 50:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: you know, make it more exciting.
• 50:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I am on social media at Joshington underscore bear.
• 50:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am mostly on Instagram and blue sky and not for July, but for August, people can find me at a flamecon in New York City, which is August 15th and 16th along with a lot of other fantastic queer creators and fans.
• 51:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you'll get to come see what we have cooking.
• 51:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, I have intelligent and wonderful friends, but I'm going to go super base here.
• 51:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: The reason we'd read comics is because we want to smash our action figures together.
• 51:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: And this five issue series is not only narratively fun, but we get to have five really fun divergent heroes who get power upgrades as they smash demons and Nazis.
• 51:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: War is hell.
• 51:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like war itself is always going to be a horror theme and why not just lean into that and make it excellent, right?
• 51:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: Nazis are always the most smashable villains in the Marvel Universe.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll show you how many final thoughts on hell hunters and do you want to plug what you've got coming out.
• 51:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's so much it's a good time to be a PKJ fan.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks guys.
• 51:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, first I just wanted to thank you all again for reading the story and for giving us such a thoughtful read and for all the kind words.
• 51:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's not enough to get to do it.
• 51:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love these characters.
• 51:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Love the team.
• 51:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have a lot more.
• 51:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have ideas for a lot more unhaled that are out there kind of under the ground and I'd love to bring out in the context of World War II primarily.
• 51:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Although there is the chapter I would love to tell later in the 20th century in which Bucky is because I mean at the time when this is all going down we're getting close to the time when Capp and Bucky go on the rocket and everything changes.
• 52:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So before too long I don't know I've a story that I want to tell with Bucky where he's by and when he's the winter soldier when as a Bradley is Capp.
• 52:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that is a Capp that could potentially be on a team like this.
• 52:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to kind of change the, change the cast a little bit from iteration to iterations like take out one person put one in like a, you know, somebody might get killed, somebody else might be found something, you know, I just I love the idea of just changing just a little bit from story to story and not like it not ever like an ongoing monthly series, but like a more like a brew baker Philips kind of idea, where it's like here's a volume and then it is done and there's another one like a movie with sequels rather than the TV show than ever ends silver square insert steel from the freedom spy for
• 52:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the aesthetic is a little different, but there are members of the, um, howl and commando is a lot to bring in.
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like some of those guys are super fucking cool.
• 52:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: As a Bradley for me is kind of my, a white whale if he looks, uh, forgive the expression.
• 53:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would love to use.
• 53:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I say, and I think he's just cool shit.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, I have some, I have ideas, I've thoughts.
• 53:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll try to keep putting out more helentres chapters and DJ mentions Peggy's wings.
• 53:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: The idea of that is that I I wanted to introduce an element to one of them that has not yet materialized I have an idea for how Peggy might eventually look more like she has reflected in in this chapter.
• 53:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: So yeah.
• 53:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to when I'm kind of thinking I was kind of think the long game and I want people to see my stuff 10 years now be like oh my god he had planned the whole time and I could read it all as one big thing So anyway, just thanks to all you again for giving us such a great read.
• 53:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm ready in Furnal Hulk right now that leads up to another kind of mini series which is by this time but time this releases it will have been announced There's a thing coming called Road to Hulk war which is a series of one shots
• 53:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And each one is like a versus issue.
• 53:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, Furnal Hulk versus Wolverine and Furnal Hulk versus Fantastic Four.
• 53:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And onward kind of showing in Furnal Hulk as he gathers his infernal Avengers that we saw in the free comic book day preview.
• 54:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: This kind of shows how we get there.
• 54:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now we have Hulk War, this big event is going to be super exciting.
• 54:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's coming Midnight Spider-Man comes out very soon.
• 54:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: That comes out prior to Halloween.
• 54:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be dope as hell.
• 54:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: The whole Midnight line is so cool.
• 54:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, we can't wait for you to see the art that I've been seeing from the other guys to books.
• 54:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's such weird Kismet when my show lines up with Marvel's production, because I'm doing August is literally like a dark force month on my show and they're like midnight's the event of like, oh, Chris, yeah, it's going to be dope as hell.
• 54:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait for you to see it.
• 54:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's coming.
• 54:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually getting this step away from horror for a moment just to do a like a short story in the Muppets take the Marvel Universe issue, which is really fun.
• 54:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing a Wolverine animal story.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Perfect.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be super fun.
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is fun.
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's already underway.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing a creator-owned that'll be up next year.
• 54:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's not out yet, but that is, that is in the works.
• 54:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the final issues of my adventures is Superman.
• 54:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I am exclusive at Marvel now, but we're still wrapping up the very end of my Superman run with Adventures of Superman, Book of L, and that'll be coming out.
• 54:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look for all these and more.
• 54:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you can find me at PhilipKennelyJohnson.com, all the Twitter descendants at Facebook and Instagram.
• 55:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I joined TikTok sadly recently because that's where I've been answering a lot of questions.
• 55:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've been getting a lot of questions about Midnight Spider-Man and Hulk stuff.
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I started at TikTok so I can answer some of those so I'm I'm everywhere.
• 55:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh thanks DJ, appreciate that.
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: It is excellent to see you.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: I remain a massive fan, but you're just such a decent fucking human being film.
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: So thank you for putting.
• 55:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: You all too.
• 55:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: Us queer friends over on the queer show.
• 55:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: We appreciate you always my book gay Mormon dad came out in May if you have not read it I would love it if you had a order and a read and a review on good reads if you have I in July Well, Dr. Drew.
• 55:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm doing Chicago before that.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm gonna be at Flamcon in August and at the uncanny experience in September Those are the shows that are most readily announced and I got a bunch of book signings set up this summer I'm in Salt Lake City if you are the area to follow back
• 55:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: Follow the trick and walk an underscore lane.
• 55:55
  [SPEAKER_06]: The theme on the patreon this month is characters with wings So watch for some really fun x-men themed characters over there including bird brain from the new mutants, which is a wild recording And we're gonna be just doing the trial of Adrian tombs the vulture at the end of the month, which is the next episode out immediately after this Take care of yourselves everybody stay safe out there and go read hell hunters.
• 56:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll see you back here next week on gray malkin lane Buck natsis and also quite a
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hey everybody, thanks for sticking around for a minute.
• 56:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: For another episode of Grey Malkin' Lane Expose A, where we talk about the sex lives of our favorite ex-men.
• 56:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: Stay tuned.
• 56:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're gonna have a wrong-chea conversation in just a moment, perhaps.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: So this is the part where you put your headphones in or don't play it in front of the kids.
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: I have three of my favorite people here with me.
• 56:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: And we're gonna begin with a very simple question.
• 56:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Justin Wilder is current Wagner fuckable.
• 56:45
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, why?
• 56:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean?
• 56:46
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's adorable.
• 56:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's a fun guy, he's, you know, he bumps it out.
• 56:50
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's saying, like, what I fucking, you know, I'm not gay, but I, he's a cute, what a man has a face that you wouldn't mind having that style you tell, he's attractive, you know?
• 57:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: Would you fucking knock turn?
• 57:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: Not absolutely.
• 57:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
• 57:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: So, and so that gets tricky.
• 57:05
  [SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely, no question.
• 57:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: But also Scarlett Witch is a fuck, you know?
• 57:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: So, Michael Solice is a Kurt Wagner-fuckable.
• 57:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: Totally, who am I to say curb Wagner is not?
• 57:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: Or is, well, I clearly am someone who says is, so I am on team curb Wagner all the way.
• 57:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, okay.
• 57:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: And Kevin Canary, the voice of my crawler, are you fuckable?
• 57:25
  [SPEAKER_03]: Just a mile while.
• 57:26
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a different question.
• 57:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a no, but it's a night crawler.
• 57:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: Definitely.
• 57:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I always equate Nightcroller to the Marvel Universe's version of Nightwing, where just the same kind of rabbit fan base that Nightwing has, I feel like Nightcroller has.
• 57:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's all very, like, he did rivalry fuckery going on there.
• 57:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, okay, so this is a section of Expoze where we call a fuck date, bring home to mom.
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: If you think about Kurt Wagner and his sexual history, or even someone you may ship him with, Michael, who is his best fuck?
• 57:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: Who's the girl that he has the best sex with?
• 57:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh my gosh, well girl, girl and or Wolverine.
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: I would be much more excited if it was Wolverine, actually.
• 58:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that the hair on hair action, the claws, kind of a little bit of the animal coming out.
• 58:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: I would be maybe leaning in that direction.
• 58:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: I would have like, I feel like service is like, those two have amazing sex and then nothing to talk about.
• 58:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: That's kind of where my head goes for those two.
• 58:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: opinions from the other two.
• 58:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: The first thing that came to mind was weaponless Zen from sure.
• 58:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because I just felt like that was so like who are you uncover yourself in front of me like this is your truth.
• 58:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like that that felt not sustainable for a long period of time.
• 58:37
  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a really find yourself kind of moment that he was in where he imagined
• 58:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: The half sisters and our sisters at various times, and that is the side of the history that adopted sisters.
• 58:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we're going to go here in a minute, but I do believe Kurt Wagner is very likely safe, you're sexual.
• 58:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: And probably a little bit pansexual in my head, Canon.
• 58:59
  [SPEAKER_06]: Justin, who is Kurt's best date?
• 59:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like who is his best relationship over time?
• 59:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: A romantic relationship.
• 59:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Or something that I would like to... Oh, wow.
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I, I feel like the one that I, that feels the best is Scarlet Witch in, and and it's so small and it's so off the side, there's a little play playfulness and an animated series.
• 59:20
  [SPEAKER_04]: I think that was Wolverine in the X-Men, but you know, I think I don't know that he's really had too much depth to any of them.
• 59:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: There's been a handful of them, but like no one that immediately, but what?
• 59:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, you're leaving a man to off the list, Amanda.
• 59:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: I know.
• 59:35
  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, and that's the one, but like even that felt like it came in and out at various times and you know, they have the deepest relationship for sure probably the best romantic relationship between them.
• 59:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: I notice you also seem to be avoiding his relationship with Rachel Summers.
• 59:49
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, that's not avoiding, but not really, honestly, they're probably my favorite together, but
• 59:55
  [SPEAKER_04]: She's changed.
• 59:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: She's gone on to, you know, I don't know that that happens now, you know, and so does that, is that just a moment in that time or in that space?
• 1:00:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, while I respect most of your opinions, I will die on the hill of Curtin, Rachel, do not belong.
• 1:00:11
  [SPEAKER_04]: But why, you know, she's she's everywhere in every when different different different times different people I'm working for that long, right?
• 1:00:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: Right night crawler and date fripper.
• 1:00:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: They have a little buddy cove like circus act.
• 1:00:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a good time Uh, Kevin, who is the girl that and this is ironic given the Amanda relationship But who's the girl that Kurt should bring home to mom?
• 1:00:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: And in this case, we're talking probably Margali and or Misty and or Destiny depends on how you answer that question
• 1:00:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I think the person you can bring home to all of them, not necessarily the right choice, but the the correct choice is Megan.
• 1:00:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Since she will be anything that you want them to be and you know he had a crush on her for a bit, I think he convince her to come home to each of his moms and she would change form to be whatever is perfect for each of those people.
• 1:00:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: We saw them together with a daughter in that age of X man series by Sean and McGuire.
• 1:01:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: The interesting thing is Kurt is raised Romani and we're talking about a two prominent Romani women as the Scarlet Witch and Amanda Sutton.
• 1:01:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: And then we add another with Megan into that mix.
• 1:01:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Another one that is more recent, I really love him with Silver Sable from the Amazing Night Crowler series.
• 1:01:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: That was a really fun relationship in my mind as well.
• 1:01:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyone else you ship him with?
• 1:01:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: I kind of want to see him date like the black cat for a minute.
• 1:01:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think that'd be fun.
• 1:01:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: I could see him being a rowdy of Lila Cheny and going hopping around the universe together.
• 1:01:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: Cute.
• 1:01:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: He has also flirted with Storm, right?
• 1:01:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: But I don't think that ever let it lead to anything deeply serious.
• 1:01:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's so weird in my brain.
• 1:01:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, it does get the chemistry's not right there.
• 1:01:42
  [SPEAKER_04]: Which I feel like that that's why Rachel and Kurt make more sense than store in Aurora and Kurt, right?
• 1:01:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like there's too much family history and and almost brother sister relationship with Aurora and Kurt, but I don't see that with with Rachel.
• 1:01:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: You never you never want it with Kitty, but also, right?
• 1:02:00
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that feels weird.
• 1:02:01
  [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm I'm trying to run through in my head like who else, you know, Kurt and Moira McTaggart.
• 1:02:06
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, that's cool.
• 1:02:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's fun too, but I really like Domino with Colossus.
• 1:02:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: I do too, yeah.
• 1:02:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay Kevin, what are Kurt Wagner's turn-ons in bed?
• 1:02:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he's definitely into texture.
• 1:02:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: He likes furries.
• 1:02:23
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's into the plushies of all of his banks that he just fucks on a nightly basis when he doesn't have somebody with him.
• 1:02:29
  [SPEAKER_03]: on a bed of stamps.
• 1:02:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep, he's on a bed of stamps.
• 1:02:32
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's not into being tied up because he can teleport out of it and so it doesn't really have the same kind of sexual pleasure for him because he's not really a lot of eye contact.
• 1:02:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: Ah, does he?
• 1:02:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think so.
• 1:02:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: I also think he's probably a very generous lover.
• 1:02:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: He really likes to make his partner finish first.
• 1:02:48
  [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, I'm kind of sure.
• 1:02:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: Michael, what do you think Kurt Wagner's turn off are?
• 1:02:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think Kurt Wagner knows how to cuddle.
• 1:02:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think cuddling is part of the equation.
• 1:02:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's not much to kind of grab either.
• 1:02:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I don't think he's fun to cuddle either.
• 1:03:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, he's so, but he's like velvety.
• 1:03:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I just want to go.
• 1:03:04
  [SPEAKER_03]: But he has hooks on his hand.
• 1:03:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: Doesn't need a whole fine walls.
• 1:03:07
  [SPEAKER_03]: He's a little hooks in his hand.
• 1:03:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: That's not pleasant.
• 1:03:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's a little too clunky.
• 1:03:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and then you can get cut.
• 1:03:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so there's a there's some danger there.
• 1:03:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: So we're
• 1:03:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: We really should have women here because I think women often find Kurt very, very sexy, but I have to save some of my conversations with women for other characters that I have in my.
• 1:03:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: But let's talk about this is a section where we call what what are those powers do.
• 1:03:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: Justin what could Kurt do in the bedroom with his ability to teleport through the brimstone dimension and does the sulfur smell create an impediment to a healthy sex life for him?
• 1:03:41
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, so I feel like the sulfur smell for him, he's probably, it's home, you know, he loves it.
• 1:03:48
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's never turned off by the brimstone, but other people, you got to warm up to that.
• 1:03:53
  [SPEAKER_04]: I feel like the ability to just constantly be anywhere, lends itself to a variety of switch up that I feel like no one else can achieve with that bant ability.
• 1:04:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: The, uh, the recent run in Gelsamone's book where that woman McKenzie, he's dating at
• 1:04:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: I want you to banth me and they get to the X-Men house later.
• 1:04:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Her hair's all messy and she's like, we banped five times.
• 1:04:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like, Elsa votes it on the joke.
• 1:04:19
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I thought about her as we were just talking about it.
• 1:04:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: And she's kind of like, they're cute, but I don't know what else is there for them.
• 1:04:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't care about her.
• 1:04:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, thank you very much.
• 1:04:28
  [SPEAKER_04]: And like I do only the all future where you retired to the suburbs, I hated.
• 1:04:32
  [SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, none of that, please.
• 1:04:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, you know, Mary in a single mom in the suburb
• 1:04:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: Not for Kevin, what can that crawler do in bed with his line of site teleportation ability?
• 1:04:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I do think there's a person who'd be excited by the danger of falling while they're having sex.
• 1:04:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's silver savings.
• 1:04:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's probably silver stable.
• 1:04:53
  [SPEAKER_03]: And so I do think there's something for him taking somebody on a Banff journey while things are happening.
• 1:04:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I think that could be a mixture of danger thing.
• 1:05:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: We're just speed, you know, having the wind through your hair while you're having sex.
• 1:05:06
  [SPEAKER_06]: little danger of like that blind teleport.
• 1:05:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: They're going to get end up solidified in a wall somewhere, right?
• 1:05:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Maybe.
• 1:05:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Michael, what can night crawler do in bed with the ability to climb walls?
• 1:05:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, well, I'm a little bit more interested in the pre-hensile tale.
• 1:05:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's add that one on that with the next one.
• 1:05:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: So wall climbing and a pre-hensile tale.
• 1:05:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: Because I think the wall calming also goes with that a little bit, but I think yeah, the being able to grab.
• 1:05:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: weapons, wrap that tail around things.
• 1:05:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I think climb up and around people.
• 1:05:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think, yeah, night crawlers very, yeah, very agile.
• 1:05:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I think there's like, you know, exceptional reflexes, the cat-like, cat-like reflexes, the funcable joke, so it's like a very bendable yogi, basically.
• 1:05:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: We don't have to delve into this, but this man has big fingers and big toes.
• 1:05:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: So there's some things that can be done.
• 1:05:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: And he only has three or what is it three of each?
• 1:05:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, um, three on each.
• 1:05:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: Justin, what can that Crowler do with the ability to melt into shadow and see in the dark in bed?
• 1:06:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: I just feel like that that he's got a light show going and that's fun ways that he surprises you and also kind of terrifying.
• 1:06:10
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like, well, where do you go?
• 1:06:12
  [SPEAKER_06]: He, uh, the little things popping out of the dark.
• 1:06:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, do we have any resonant thoughts on the, uh, the very healthy sexual life of Kurt Wagner?
• 1:06:19
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's sexy.
• 1:06:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: I think, uh, a lot of people find him attractive.
• 1:06:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: And I think he really enjoys sex.
• 1:06:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: But I do think he's a little level one woman man.
• 1:06:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I think this man, if you tried to be polyamorous, would like really struggle with the jealousy of it all.
• 1:06:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: And also his partner would have to be very cool and down.
• 1:06:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: This is where Domino works.
• 1:06:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, the two of them in, uh, like a little polyculture is very fun
• 1:06:40
  [SPEAKER_03]: What did he do while it was a priest?
• 1:06:41
  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you think he had sex anyway?
• 1:06:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think he was one of those priests that probably still, uh, did you guys see, uh, Oh goodness, now I forgot the name of that show, the British comedy.
• 1:06:50
  [SPEAKER_06]: It was a... Yeah, flee bag.
• 1:06:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, flee bag.
• 1:06:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: And the priest can still fuck people, right?
• 1:06:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, I mean, all the priests can still fuck people as it's proven.
• 1:06:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: But like, it's whether they should or not.
• 1:06:59
  [SPEAKER_03]: It's the question.
• 1:07:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: What did we think about his relationship with Legion when they were in the head together?
• 1:07:06
  [SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was interesting, but that felt like a working relationship to me.
• 1:07:09
  [SPEAKER_03]: Is there a personality of legions that you think Kurt would fuck?
• 1:07:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh sure.
• 1:07:12
  [SPEAKER_03]: Probably multiple.
• 1:07:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: One of them is Moira McTaggart.
• 1:07:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: He has an evil Moira and his brain.
• 1:07:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's what Kurt likes.
• 1:07:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: He likes evil Moira.
• 1:07:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's like real.
• 1:07:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's an evil Xavier and an evil Moira in there, just at any additional thoughts.
• 1:07:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: I love Kurt, you know, and I want him to have love.
• 1:07:30
  [SPEAKER_04]: I agree that he is likely a one-person partner in general, but and that's all we've seen from him.
• 1:07:36
  [SPEAKER_04]: He doesn't seem to even, even the silver stable thing was was fun and playful and that's always his vibe, but I thought he was starting to catch something and then was hurt in the end.
• 1:07:47
  [SPEAKER_04]: It makes me, makes me love him that much more.
• 1:07:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, Michael, perhaps I wonder.
• 1:07:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I wonder if he has some attachment issues as well, like clinging to one, or but also being a little bit like hearted and not what maybe there's a fear of wanting to get into deeper longer term relationships.
• 1:08:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love all of you.
• 1:08:02
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm being so crunchy and you're all being so deeply.
• 1:08:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
• 1:08:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: might be as an awful one night stand.
• 1:08:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: You can just get out of there and no questions yes you go, which is a wonderful thing.
• 1:08:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay Kevin, I sent out earlier a group text.
• 1:08:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm leaning into kind of stereotypes.
• 1:08:18
  [SPEAKER_06]: If we take the template of night crawler and kind of put him in a certain genre, I've come up with three characters that kind of match him from other places.
• 1:08:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: We're going to assume that these are not children and that they are all consenting immortal beings as we introduce these characters, but also we could just take a template of them as adults, we're not advocating for adult child relationships, I want to be very, very clear about that.
• 1:08:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: The three characters I chose are a hot stuff, a spooky the tough little ghost and a Gabi gruesome, so using the fuck Mary killed template, who would curch choose for each of these?
• 1:08:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think, gosh, I think Kurt would choose Gabby to marry and settle down with.
• 1:08:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Are you a Gabby gruesome fan?
• 1:08:58
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, and then I think he would probably end up killing spooky the tough little ghost and he would have a lot of sex with hot stuff.
• 1:09:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I think that that answer makes sense.
• 1:09:09
  [SPEAKER_06]: Is it interesting for your brain to picture these as templates of net crawler?
• 1:09:13
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think the hot stuff especially is very much the the little devil that sits on night crawlers shoulder when he's being super inappropriate with women in the tranks and the joking around.
• 1:09:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: But surprise, all three of them are the children of a zazel.
• 1:09:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: I know none of you signed up for for this little expose, but I appreciate you joining me.
• 1:09:35
  [SPEAKER_06]: Do we have any final thoughts about Kurt Wagner?
• 1:09:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: There are not.
• 1:09:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: No, there's definitely thoughts.
• 1:09:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: There's so many thoughts that it's no it's it's like symbol He's a sex symbol in the Marvel universe.
• 1:09:44
  [SPEAKER_03]: I think without like there's some people who are like, oh, they might somebody might find them sexy And even if he's not your taste you can't deny his kind of swash buckling sexy leading man Hollywood, you know kind of magnetism
• 1:09:58
  [SPEAKER_06]: I bet Suri's has a bam sextal up there and share space.
• 1:10:02
  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:10:03
  [SPEAKER_04]: He's so swath and cool too.
• 1:10:04
  [SPEAKER_04]: Like I just, that's why I feel like I love him so much.
• 1:10:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, something we haven't referenced.
• 1:10:10
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a Chuck Austin story that says maybe Kurt has two penises.
• 1:10:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you guys remember that?
• 1:10:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's like a random mention in a comic book.
• 1:10:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Is it pre-hensal?
• 1:10:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: It has it all, there's like his fingers, doesn't he?
• 1:10:23
  [SPEAKER_06]: Good for him.
• 1:10:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: And just did you, I'll leave it to you to determine what the equivalent for nocturn would be, but hey, have a good time, buddy.
• 1:10:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: For, what, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
• 1:10:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you for listening to Grimalk and Lane.
• 1:10:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: We hope you are enjoying this podcast.
• 1:10:51
  [SPEAKER_06]: Grimalk and Lane is produced and recorded in Salt Lake City, Utah, with music and editing done by my husband, Michael Bell, and promo art done by the incredible Seth Martell.
• 1:11:01
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• 1:11:08
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• 1:11:14
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• 1:11:16
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• 1:11:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll see you back your next time on Grimmulkin Lane.