Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Jay Shetty Whistle Blower, John McDermott and Chris Franjola

Transcript

Jay Shetty Whistle Blower, John McDermott and Chris Franjola · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: for it? This exclusive place that Dad has connections with.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: They have more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You have to put me in touch.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: What's it called?
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: It's Dunaidial.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Dunaidial. There's an accent on the E. Do you mean... Yes,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Lift?
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Please. Are you going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Dundale Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else. Heather MacDonald
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on the road,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is the show
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: to know.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: She talks Hollywood tales, her real life, Mr.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Saving Serial Data and Serial Sisters. You'll be addicted and addicted.
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: Fast to the number one tabloid real life podcast.
• 0:54
  Speaker 5: Listen in, listen up.
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: Woo, woo.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Heather MacDonald. Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: As promised, we had a couple more juicy topics and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: things that we want to discuss. So I'm back here
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: with the hilarious Chris Frangiola.
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: Well, I want to discuss with you an article I
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: just read before I came over. Yes. About guilt tipping.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: People believe guilt tipping is getting out of control. You know,
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: that everywhere you go now, no matter what it is,
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: whether you get a lot done or nothing done, it'll
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: pop up. However, what percentage you want to leave.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: And there is a guilt factor to it. You know, like, oh,
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: I got to leave something. I want to be that guy. Exactly.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: And they make it so easy. Right. Because so many
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: of these places now are no cash places. They don't
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: even allow it. So you really don't feel it when
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: you put in the card. And then they go, oh,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: we spin it around the iPad. And they're like, it's
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: going to ask you a question. And I'm like, I
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: think I know what the question is.
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: And you look away like, no question.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: And then some of these, like at Starbucks, it's one, two,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: or custom or whatever it is. $ 1, $ 2, something custom.
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Which I think is pretty classy of Starbucks. Now, there's
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: other ones that are literally... 20, it starts 20%, 25%
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: and 35%. And it's like a smoothie.
• 2:18
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: And it's just like a hard thing because I'm like, look,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: I know food and all this stuff is more expensive.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I don't want everyone to be replaced by a robot.
• 2:29
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: So you're like, okay. But then as you like leave,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: you're like this fucking smoothie, $ 22. It's crazy. And then
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: you're just like, I don't, I don't care that, you know,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: how well I'm doing. Like there's a part of you
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: that's just like, I shouldn't be spending this much.
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: On this sad salad.
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Or whatever.
• 2:48
  Speaker 4: I was at a concert a couple of weeks ago
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: and I went and bought a concert shirt and like
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: two things and whatever, that's expensive already. So it was
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: like $ 150 for two shirts. And then at the end
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: it says 20%, 25 or 30%, but you have to
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: hit something. So I'm like, I mean, so when I,
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: 25% on a hundred. That's like whatever, $ 20 or something on.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Did you do it?
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: Yes. For like the guy to hand me the shirt.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, I get it. I was a tipped employee
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: for a long time. So I'm not going to say
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: don't tip, but yeah. Yeah. It is a lot.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: How do you feel about Uber and Lyft?
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: I tip. You got to tip on that one. I
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: feel like they're doing a lot.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: I do too. You know, it's sometimes it's a little hard.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Cause like if it's a really expensive one.
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: You're like, I already paid like 120.
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: I know. But here's the thing. They got to drive back.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, I do it. I do the typical whatever.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you got it. Uber, Lyft, Waiters.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: And I always give them the five star.
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Okay.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Even if they weren't.
• 3:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Because I'm like, they're going to figure it out.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: Right. Right.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: Even if it was the worst one I've ever had
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: and the guy didn't stop talking and the place smelled
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: like BO, I'm still like five star. Wonderful. Because I'm like,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: you know where I live. So like I don't need
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: him to like have some weird thing. I always imagine
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: like a weird movie of like where you have a
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: really bad Uber experience. Not like they attacked you or anything,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: but like it wasn't good. The guy was annoying.
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: He talked.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: He didn't know his way around. Maybe he was on
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: his phone looking and like not paying to the road.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Even then I would do the tip and the five
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: star because I like, so the guy gets fired from
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Uber or Lyft. Yeah. Because of that, his wife leaves
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: him and everything. And he's like, it's all because I
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: lost my Lyft job. I want to find that bitch.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: And then he sets out to do little things.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: We got ourselves a lifetime movie here.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that do little things that make you go crazy.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: And infiltrate all parts of your life, your personal relationship,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: your job, fucked up, goes around your backyard and like,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: you know, turns your pool on and floods your whole backyard, whatever,
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: just all these little things. And then she finds out
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: it's because she didn't tip him or whatever.
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: I like that. Somebody call, Ian Ziering is the Lyft
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: driver in this, in our lifetime movie, in my head.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Who's the mom?
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: The mom would be played by Joanna Kearns.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: No, she's 12.
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: She's 12.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: She would be the mother, and it would be Denise Richards.
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: Ooh, I like that casting.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: And Denise Richards is a single.
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: Oh, that's great.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: She's a single mom, and she just started dating, and
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: she was coming back from a date, but she didn't
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: like the date, so she called an Uber to escape.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: And then Ian Ziering, who was cute underneath, but he's
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: starting to look weird because he's getting weird, is... Just
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: getting out in the dating world and because his wife
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: and he are like separated. Yeah. And he thinks they
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: have a connection. And she's like, listen, dude, stop talking
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: to me. I don't want to be around you anymore.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: And then gets out of the car.
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: This is excellent.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: And then she, you know, is like, I'm so sick
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: of not speaking up. So she like tells Lyft like
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: this guy is weird. He gets fired. And then he
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: is like, it's all because of that bitch. And she
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: has no idea why her life is complete havoc. And
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: then the final scene is she comes out of the
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: shower and he's there.
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: And he's like, I thought you said you didn't want
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: to talk on your app. You said you wanted it
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: to be silent. Cause she'll be like, can't we just talk?
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Can't we just talk?
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: Oh, I'm hanging on to the, I want to see
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: how this end. Does she kill him? Of course. Oh, okay.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Like fatal attraction. Yes, of course.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: She ends up killing him. And then, you know, the
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: daughter comes home and hugs her.
• 6:34
  Speaker 6: The police are there.
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: The real daughter. The Sheen daughter. She plays the part.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, if she can leave her bedroom from doing OnlyFans.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: She has to do one day on this set. She's like,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: when can I go home, Mom?
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: Wow.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: There was something else you were going to talk about. Oh,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: the tattoo.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: Oh, we were just looking at it. We were looking
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: at TMZ before we came to air.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: So Machine Gun Kelly, I don't know if he's still
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: with Machine Gun Kelly or whatever her name is. What's
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: her name? Is it Megyn Kelly?
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: There is a Megyn Kelly, but she's not dating Machine
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: Gun Kelly. Wait, what is his girlfriend's name?
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: Megyn Fox.
• 7:08
  Speaker 6: Megyn Fox.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, so now he's doing the whole black thing.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he went completely black.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Which actually Kat Von D has done a lot. People
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: are just going black on their arms.
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Ugh, I do not like that look. I'd much rather
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: just stick with the original tattoos.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like a little dolphin on your ankle that you
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: got in.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: How much do you have to tip your tat guy?
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: I'm sure you're a lot. That's a lot of work,
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: I would imagine. I don't have any tattoos. You don't
• 7:36
  Speaker 4: have any tattoos, right?
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: No.
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: Me neither.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I wonder if they make you pay before and then
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: you tip them before because you're like, if you don't
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: tip them, good luck with that.
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. You don't really fuck it up. Yeah. Misspell
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: it and shit.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Barbara Corcoran of Shark Tank.
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: So she has a great marriage because she's 75. Yeah.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: But for the last 40 years of her marriage. So
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: it's a long time. I didn't realize they'd been married,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: but he's her second husband. Right. Anyway, I don't know
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: how long they did sleep in the same room together,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: but for the last 40 years, they've had full on
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: separate bedrooms, not just like in the middle of the night, whatever.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I want to watch some TV and I'm going to
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: go to the guest room, like full separate bedrooms. And
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: on occasion they invite each other over, but who knows
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: how often they do. And she said because he's messy
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: and his shit's everywhere and she can't stand it. And
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: this way she gets a lovely night's sleep.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, I honestly don't really have much of a
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: problem with this. I feel like it's almost, I feel
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: like more people should adopt this lifestyle.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's a taboo subject and half the
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: country is not admitting to it.
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: Well, Cameron Diaz recently came out and said that she
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: does the same thing. Her and Benji Madden sleep in
• 8:40
  Speaker 4: separate bedrooms. I don't know how true it is, but
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: she did say that they do it as well. And
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: they're young. I mean, their marriage is not 35 years. So,
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: I think that people don't want to say it because
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: everyone talks and they think you immediately must have a problem.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: But I know that there's like new houses being built
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and they do two primary masters.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: Really? Yeah.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Like you can do that.
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: So each room– and you don't share the bath. You
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: each have a beautiful bath. You each have your own closet.
• 9:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: And, you know, but it's a thing that only financially
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of people can afford.
• 9:19
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Until their kids move out and maybe they can make
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: another bedroom.
• 9:23
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: A comfortable situation so that the two people could sleep
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: separately if they chose.
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: We don't share the bath anymore. I have a bathroom.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: My wife has a bathroom. We never go into each
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: other's bathrooms. So, yeah. I mean, but bedroom, yes, still.
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: But also, here's a good one. For those of you
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: thinking about doing this, here's a way to kind of
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: get in slowly. I do sleep in my daughter's room
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: a lot. Not a lot, but some- So.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: There's like a big bed in there along with her
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: little bed?
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, where one of those trundles and nothing comes out
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: the bottom and my daughter wants me to sleep in
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: the trundle. So I'll stay in there and kind of
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: enjoy it.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: And you just fall asleep there.
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: Fall asleep in there and then I'm in there for
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: the night. I'm like, oh, I'm not going to get
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: up now. Oh, that's good. So I just stay in there.
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: So that kind of, it doesn't look like I'm sleeping
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: in another bedroom. Like I was with her.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah. All right, there you go. That solved everyone's problems.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's something that people like will hide too.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Like if someone comes to your house.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 10:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: And you're like, oh, who's in here? And you're like,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: Listen, we are- I feel like it's becoming much more acceptable.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: We are lucky enough to have extra rooms now with
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: comfortable beds. And look, I'm going to say it before
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: it comes out in a People article. We do sleep
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: in separate beds often. Not all the time, but often.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: How often? Now, which house- We have– well– The Woodland
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: Hills house has separate beds?
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: In the Woodland Hills house, we have a room that
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: can always– that has a comfortable bed with a good
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: TV and everything. That's not the master.
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: And then in the other house, not as often because
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: it's not as many bedrooms and oftentimes kids or guests
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: are there.
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: Is there a reason? Is it snoring? Is it– sometimes
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: you just have different time schedules.
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: It's just like– You know, like I want to watch.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: TV and– till 11 and you're you sleep go to
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: sleep at nine.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah and then he wakes up early and then the
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: dog like wants its food early and he'll do the
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: food for the dog i don't know i just think
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: i just think there's so much resentment that can be
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: built up because someone is fucking with your sleep oh
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: absolutely i think a lot of marriages could probably not
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: get divorced if they had room to sleep separately. Yeah.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: And have that separate time and whether it's a woman
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: who gets up and pees a lot and then the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: guy's mad that she's peeing or the guy's snoring and
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: disrupting her.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: I'm all for it. I got no problem with it.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I just felt like this for you because it said
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Bianca Sensori is in revealing outfit with Kanye West at
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: the Cheesecake Factory.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: They are loving They love the Cheesecake Factory.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: The Cheesecake Factory.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: I know. And I'm trying to figure out I think
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: they go to the one in Beverly Hills. There's a
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: couple of I mean, there's a particularly nice one here
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: in Woodland Hills, right in the mall.
• 12:11
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: They must be going there because this place is still
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: in Hidden Hills, I think.
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: I thought so. But then I saw pictures that it
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: was not that one. I'm very familiar with that one. Yeah.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: And it's not that one. And then there's, you know,
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: I know the ones in this area. So I think
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: they're in Beverly Hills or something.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Talking about it right now, I'm like pretty hungry for lunch.
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: It's great.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I freaking love cheese. And I love their skinny menu.
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah. It's a skinny menu.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Anyway, her nips are out. Her vag is out.
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she's out.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Other times she puts on a jacket. We still don't
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: know what the deal is.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: Did you see the video of her talking and everyone
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: was shy? Oh, before she met him?
• 12:44
  Speaker 6: Yeah, before she met him.
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: She was doing like a real estate commercial. Or no, design.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: She was talking about design.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: She's an architect of fashion design, which I never knew
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: even existed. She says she's an architect, but she's not
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: an architect like building a home.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: No.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: And she's Australian.
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: Yes, but anyway, it was interesting to hear her voice.
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: But it is so funny that we just haven't heard
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: her voice yet. Yeah. And you're like, what is it?
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: She's like intelligent. So Brad Pitt is finally just going
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: to stop trying to fight for the custody. He's still
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: going to see the kids. But this divorce has gone
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: on so long and so ugly.
• 13:24
  Speaker 6: I know.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: With their six kids and the winery. And I'm like, literally,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I started to read this article. I'm like, This is
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Perez put it out. And, um, I was like, wait
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: a minute. Are any even under 18 anymore?
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: And there's only the twins. Okay.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, I even think Shiloh is like very close.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: If not, they're at almost 18. The other girl, Sahara
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: is in college.
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: The boys are in their twenties.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: And so it's like, I think it finally just ran
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: out of time.
• 13:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: Also when they were met, like when they do have
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: to wash, everyone thought to us, be like an amicable one.
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: They both seem normal. You know what I mean?
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Oh, it was vicious.
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: I know. But I don't think they let it get
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: as vicious because they're both big stars. And there's probably like,
• 14:09
  Speaker 4: don't you drag Brad Pitt's a big star.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Well, there was vicious. It was that he was drunk
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: and got physical with some, either she or Maddox or
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: both on the private plane. That is the story that
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: came out. That was what made her... file yeah and
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: then he was like that's not true and then like
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: Maddox I don't know if he was over 18 or
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: not but like was he gonna tell and you know
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Maddox was with her before they ever got together so
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I think his loyalty to his mom and probably just
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: like you're a drunk dick then he got sober then
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: she like sold the winery from underneath him yeah.
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: Anyway And then also, I.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: Don't know, like, what has she done lately? I feel
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: like we have, I think her whole thing is she
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: is so into being a mom. I think after this
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: whole thing with him happened, she was just like, that's it.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: I'm focusing on being a mom. Once the twins go
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: off to college or whatever they do at 18, then
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: we're going to see her like start acting and doing
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: more stuff. That's what I think.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: This is my theory on all actresses of a certain era.
• 15:16
  Speaker 4: especially very attractive ones like Angelina Jolie, or all of them, honestly.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: There's quite a few of them who you just don't
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: see anymore. And maybe it's an age-out thing or whatever.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: But you're like Kelly Lynch, Madeline Stowe, Angelina Jolie, Kathleen Turner,
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: on and on and on of that era. I think
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: before Me Too, those women, I mean, imagine. the meetings
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: that they had, the showers, they had to watch that
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: fat fuck take, you know what I mean? And they
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: were probably eventually like, I'm out, I'm out of this shit.
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: I don't need it anymore. You know, because back then,
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: I think it was just recently, Kirsten Dunst was saying
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: that on the Spider-Man set, not that long ago, she
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: was just like, there was, it was kind of a man,
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: you know, old guy energy set, whatever. And they would
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: say some shit to me and, But I couldn't say anything.
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: It was before Me Too and I wasn't going to
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: lose my job. So I was like, fuck it. I
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: feel like Eva Mendes is like that too. She's like,
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: I'm out. I don't need this shit anymore.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: She's not jealous of her husband. She doesn't care.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: She sells sponges. She's got sponge wine.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: And also like Gwyneth Paltrow, I think people think like
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: it's tragic that they're not doing movies anymore. I'm like,
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: they don't need the money.
• 16:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: They already experienced it all. They got to go to
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the movie premieres. They got to be in the movies.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: They got to have the fans. They got to, you know,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: win the awards. And they don't really miss actually being
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: on set and waiting around and having their back hurt
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: from standing up and being in the trailer and missing
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: their home and their pets and their kids.
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: And they're just like, yeah, something comes to me.
• 16:46
  Speaker 6: Great.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: But like, I'm totally fine with that being one part
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: of my life. Or you're like a Reese Witherspoon who
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: you were like, I'm not ready to give it up.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: So I'm going to do the smartest thing. start my
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: own company, buy all these great books, produce and stuff and,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: and still act like she's really parlayed it perfectly.
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: Nicole Kidman too. I mean, doing the TV, the move, everything.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, they've done it right. But I think there's
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: other people that are like, it's fine. Like, just like
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: anybody else, like someone that's like, you don't want to
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: teach anymore. And so I was like, no, I'm good.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Or it's like when I said to my mom, mom,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: don't you want to make the Turkey this year? And
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: she goes, no, I really don't.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: And I go, but you love doing the turkey. You
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: love cooking. And she goes, no, I really don't. I'm
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: really tired and I really just want to go to
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: your house and not. And I was like, oh, like,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: you know, you just think. Like your mom loved cooking
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: and cleaning. And it's like, no, she'd actually like to
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: show up, have a glass of wine, eat and fucking leave.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: And she's done all the turkeys. She's gotten all the
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: accolades and she's good.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: I just moved to a new agency and they wrote
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: me the other day an email like, and blah, blah, blah.
• 17:55
  Speaker 5: Great.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: It is that. And we'll continue to stand up and
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: everything else. And would you be interested in getting back
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: into acting? I was like, fuck no. Like I have no.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: Is that what you wrote or what did you say?
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: I wrote back like it's really not my interest anymore
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: to go like audition or read for hosting jobs or whatever.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: Because I just know I'm not going to get it.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: And why even bother driving to Culver City?
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Well, I do think a lot can be on self-tape now.
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: I know, but I don't.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: But even that is too much technology and effort.
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: If somebody asks you, are you interested in that shit anymore?
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: The few times I had to do it on self-tape,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: either my kids or my husband, which basically I have
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: three husbands, nobody is patient enough.
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: To shoot you. Over and over. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: And then I'm like. If the part is for a frustrated,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: annoyed mother and wife, then a hundred percent, I need
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: to do it. Talk to the camera, have them be like,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: and then I'll be like, you know, then that'll be great.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Then that'll be amazing acting. But then I also hear
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: that like people feel like they do that. I don't
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: know how it works with the self-tape. It kind of
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: started with COVID.
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: All my friends who are actors now, I mean, they
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: hate the self-tape because they're like, well, I can't– when
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: I was in the room with the– I could differentiate
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: myself from everybody.
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: Right, and they can give you notes.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. They can go, actually, you're not supposed to
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: be this annoyed. What you don't know is in the
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: script earlier. They can explain something and you're like, oh, okay. Okay,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: now let me try it again because they want you
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: to get the part too. They want their– so I
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: don't know where that's going with the.
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: I remember a couple of years ago, I got one.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: I was in a hotel room doing stand-up. And I
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: remember propping up my phone on a pillow in the
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: hotel room. And I was trying to do it. And
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: I'm like, what am I doing? And then they were like,
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: send it PDF. And I'm like, I don't even know
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: what that is. Like I had to go down and
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: ask the girl at the Hilton Garden Inn, like, could
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: you send this too? Oh, so embarrassing. I'm so happy
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: to be like kind of rid of that.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: I remember doing that same thing. I was at my
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: friend's house in Tampa where you're going to be. And
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: it was like, I had to play a lawyer or something.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: He had a beautiful home. So I was like, okay,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: this is good. We'll do it like in your husband's office.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: And we're like trying to film it. Of course, I
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: didn't get it.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: But still, like, screwed up my whole day. Like, I
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: had to get hair, makeup. Oh, it's the worst. But
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: it's also, like, there's the young Heather, old Heather, can
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: never pass up an audition or an opportunity. I cannot
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: just say, you know what? I'm going to pass. I
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: don't think I've ever done that.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: Even now.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: Maybe now I'm starting.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: But, like, it's really hard to even think that that's
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: an option. You know, like.
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: Oh, it's an option. You know, I see now more
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: than ever.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: And now we realise it.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: Christmas shopping has already started in our house. My daughter
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: is so organised, already planning Christmas gifts from Macaulay. Hair
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: care for her aunt and a fab fragrance for her bestie.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I'm
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: an early bird, buying one present a week from now
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: till Christmas, which makes budgeting less stressful. I can buy
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: in-store or online from Macaulay.ie for home delivery or free
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: click and collect.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: So easy.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Gifts they'll cherish at prices you'll.
• 21:08
  Speaker 6: Love I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Each week on the show, I sit down with extraordinary
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: people who have faced tremendous setbacks and yet somehow have
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: found a way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 21:25
  Speaker 4: Life is one long lesson of chaos. I'm heading to
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: the Emmys, and I have police complaints filed against me.
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: what would you do if it was given back?
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Where did that need come from where you thought that
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: He said, I have a work dad. I need a
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: home dad.
• 21:43
  Speaker 6: What happens next?
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: When I came in, he started crying.
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: Everybody in life encounters hardships.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: What defines them is not those hard moments that they
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: go through.
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: It's about what happens next.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I decided to risk it all.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work.
• 21:59
  Speaker 5: Listen, Dara, I'm not going to pull punches.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: You can use your voice even if it shakes.
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Trish Cyrus, she says there's definitely issues with her new marriage.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: This is Miley's mother married this guy, Dominic.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: He's a big actor. Dominic Purcell.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: And apparently they got married and he slid into her DMs,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: but she didn't see it for a year. But I
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: guess during that year, I'm assuming is when he started
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: to date Noah, her daughter.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: So he dated Noah first. They broke up. Noah's marrying
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: somebody else. So I guess she's fine with it. But
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: it's out there that he dated the daughter. Then he
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: started dating Trish. And that is why Noah and the
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: brother were not at the wedding.
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: But she says that they definitely have some marital issues.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: And it's because they are different signs. Marital issues?
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: They got married three weeks ago. So already?
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: I know. So she said in 2016 he DM'd her.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: I didn't see it for a year.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: So I don't know.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: She said, I'm a Taurus and he's an Aquarius. And
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: apparently astrologically speaking, that's not a match made in heaven. Okay, people. Yeah.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: I mean.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: You can't with this astronomy science. Yeah. You cannot. I
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: know people love it. But I just feel like it's
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: such a way to like say either I shouldn't marry
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: this person or I should.
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: But I know it's weird because sometimes you read the
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: things and they are pretty like dead on.
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: I know. But I feel like you fit your thing
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: into it, you know. You're reading it like, I am
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: like that. But you could– it's kind of written so
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: vaguely that you could put anything out into it.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: But sometimes I always read them. It's interesting.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: I always wonder if like– I guess the– Astronomical signs.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: What is it?
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: Astrology.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Astrology signs.
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Astrological.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: It is about the day you came out of someone's vagina.
• 24:12
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, what is it though?
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: What is your sign? Or is it when you're conceived?
• 24:17
  Speaker 4: I'm a Gemini.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I'm June 14th.
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: Me too. What?
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: You're a late Gemini.
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: What are you June? I'm cusp, May 21st.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, so you're on the cusp of cancer.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: No, of Taurus. Not on like Dominic.
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: No.
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: Oh, cancer's after. You're right.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: Cancer's after. I had never even looked at. Into like
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: my kids' signs and thought are they really like that
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: or not? I just– I don't know. I think once–
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I used to be more into it.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: And then I was like– I remember like friends being
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: like going to psychics and stuff. And I'm like some
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: psychic is going to tell you that the guy you're
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: going to marry has a C in his name or something.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: And right now you're dating a guy named Ben.
• 24:59
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: So now all of a sudden that's in your head
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: and you're going to be like, oh, Ben is really
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: not the one. And that's why I'm like, I think
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: all that stuff just gets, especially when it's about love
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and stuff. I don't know. I don't think it's good.
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: I need to know how come psychics are the only
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: seeming business that seems to be able to just put
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: a sign right on the front lawn of their regular
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: suburban home. Like when nobody else could do that. But
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: you'll be driving to a neighborhood and you'll see a
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: big sign on someone's front lawn. Psychic or a neon
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: sign in the window. I'm like, well. Can't do that
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: if you're a plumber, like a big site. It's against the,
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: like the, I don't know. I feel like there's zoning
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: laws against that. But the psychics, big fucking sign around
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: the front lawn. How come they're allowed to do that?
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: There is a house on the corner across from Kaiser Permanente.
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: And the other side is the school.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: I know exactly the house you're talking about.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: It's a pretty nice house.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: And it's like these big psychic signs. I'm like, is
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: anybody really just like in a fight with their boyfriend
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: and they'd like fucking just pull over?
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: And then are like, I just need to talk to somebody. Like,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: should I marry this guy or not? Come in and,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: you know, and like, or whatever, you're coming out of
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Kaiser Permanente and you're like, do I have cancer or not?
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Let me just, let me just go over and like
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: talk to this woman. My, I had a friend who
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: went once years ago.
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: And of course about some guy. And she was like,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: what you need to do. And I remember, I thank
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: God talked my friend out of it. She was asking
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: for either five or $ 1, 500.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: To put a spell. Oh.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: On him. Shit.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: And then there was another one where you put your
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: period blood in their coffee.
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: Oh.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, no. Without them knowing. Yeah. And somehow then they'll,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: They'll get the spell? Pop the question. I don't know. Oh,
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: is that right? I don't know.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: And I was just like, this is just. Come on. Like,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: come on with this.
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: I was in a bar many years ago in LA. Yeah.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: And you know how they come around selling the roses?
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: And it was late at night and a woman who
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: was coming around selling roses. And I said, no, no,
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: I'm okay. Whatever. And she put a spell on me.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: She was like, you now will have a spell forever.
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: And she walked out. And I swear to God, from
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: that day forward.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: You felt like you had that.
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: I never, like I achieved something, but not a lot.
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, maybe that was the spell. Like, she didn't,
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: she's like, your spell is, you won't get to, it's huge.
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: You'll always.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: You'll never be the best friend in a sitcom.
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: You'll forever play half-filled comedy clubs for the rest of
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: your life. I'm like, son of a bitch. You know,
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: not all spells are going to die. Some spells are
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: just like, you're going to be mediocre for the rest
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: of your life. I'm like, so I always think about that.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: I'm always like, what? Is the spell working?
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: I just always say, like, how did, like, show me
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: the psych. Show me, we know how people tape their readings,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: you know?
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: I just want someone to show me a reading that
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: they got in early March of 2020. Right. And was like,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: what does the next year of my life look like?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: And if that psychic doesn't say, I see you spending
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of time at home.
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: And working from home and staying at home. And your
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: travel plans are going to be canceled.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: For some reason.
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: I bet there's some people who could say that that happened.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I need to hear the tape.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: All right. Oh, you're going to get many of them now.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: I need to hear the actual tape. Even if they
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: didn't say, I see a massive... Because then maybe they
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: because then we don't see like a war, but we
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: know that there'll be destruction.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Like I need to see something like I was just
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: reading you. I was seeing your future. So you didn't
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: get COVID. You didn't lose your job. You didn't die.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: But you spent a year in your house.
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: You, you know, worked from home and you didn't get
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: to go anywhere. And I don't know why it says
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: you're not going anywhere. The girl's like, but wait, I
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: have a whole trip planned to Europe in the spring. Well,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. I don't know why,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: but it's showing me you're not going. And that was
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: like March of 2020. Then I'd be like, that psychic
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: is seeing something. They're actually seeing the future of you,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: of the person they're reading.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: I mean, it always fascinates me.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: Also, when people talk to the dead people.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good one too.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Never once is it ever like, it's always like, he's happy.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: He's fine. There was a reason why you couldn't be
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: there that last day, right? Yes, I was taking my
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: medical finals. he's fine with that. Like, I just want
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: one psychic to be like, okay, he's still fucking pissed
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: at you.
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: He's, your dad is pissed. He, he says you're a disappointment.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: He doesn't like what you're doing with your life. He
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: hates your husband. and he's still mad that you never
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: cleaned out the garage that day and then they're like
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: oh my god my dad's yeah he's an asshole he's
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: in heaven but he's still an asshole like right something
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: or like they are he is mad that you served
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: potato salad at his funeral just something it's always positive
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: yeah that's true It's always like, there's gotta be one person. Well,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: because it's not, I don't really believe it, but I
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: know people get mad that I say I don't believe it.
• 30:07
  Speaker 4: Oh, people love it. I mean, I'm so glad.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: But that's why it works because you never hear a
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: negative thing from someone on the other side. They're always
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: okay that they died. They're always okay how you handle
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: the funeral. They're always okay that you were busy on
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: the day that they died. They're always healthy and dancing
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: around in heaven.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: Well, maybe you get to a place where, yeah.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: So it's like, then you're happy to, so then you're
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: just like, there's no harm in talking about, Even if
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: it's fake, there's no harm in talking because they don't
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: tell you something like, you're the reason I'm dead. You know,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: you forgot to whatever, give me my medicine. Like, it's
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: never that. Okay. There's some real estate divorce news.
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Brittany Snow was married to this cute guy on Selling OC.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this is a good one.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: And he was very flirty with this girl. And in
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: the second season, they end up kissing. Her name's Alex Hall.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: She came on Juicy Scoop. And I remember I talked
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: to her and I go, this before they announced their divorce.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: And I go, well, I think Brittany Snow and Tyler
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: are going to get divorced. And she goes, why do
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: you think that? And I go, I think because Brittany
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Snow is the actress. She thought she was marrying a normie.
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: And now he's a huge star. Right. And he's hot.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: And that's not what she gambled for. She thought she
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: was marrying a guy who could do real estate with
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: his dad and surf. Well, she went on to be,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: you know, continue to be a star.
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: And I don't know what she's been in lately, but
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: it's not the top real estate show that her ex-husband is.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: And then I think there was something maybe going on
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: between them. Maybe not, but probably. And but I really
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: think it was that she just was like, I don't
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: like it.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: But didn't they wind up getting married? Didn't he marry
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: the real estate girl?
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: No, I think they're they dated a little, but I
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: think they're still single.
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: She wrote me. She said she wants to come back
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: on Juicy Scoop.
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: Because I saw Brittany Snow on Call Her Daddy or something,
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: and she was talking about it, saying she watched it.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: And the divorce happened.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: So getting kind of mad about it. But again, this
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: is all great because I think their season's coming up soon.
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: So you've got to get.
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: All this chatter going before.
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there you go.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: That's what we were discussing earlier. Also, Selling Sunset LA.
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: Okay.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: This girl Chelsea from England, she and her husband are
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: getting divorced.
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah. So, you know. Is that still on Selling Sunset LA?
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: Oh, really?
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's probably coming back.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Christine Quinn, who was on it.
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: Oh, the husband. Her husband. But he was also on it.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: He was on it too. And then they had a
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: baby and now they're in this domestic violence situation where
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: she called the cops. He tried to say, he tried
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: to get her straightened against her saying she's going to
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: kidnap the kid. The judge didn't allow it. There was
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: awful stuff in the report. Like he threw like Dog
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: poo out of like awful verbal, awful. He's awful.
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: According to, allegedly according to that.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: We shared a nanny. We had my nanny.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: That's a scoop.
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: And was there her nanny too. And my nanny, who
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: I had for lover, greatest lady, she was so happy
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: to be working with Christy. She's like, it's fun. And
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: then one day they just cut her loose. And she
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: was very upset about it. She's like, God, they were
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: kind of friendly. We were doing well. And they just
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: fired me. Anyway, she went on to stay with us,
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: and now she's with Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: You know what I wonder? Yeah. Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: what do you mean, the grandchildren?
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: No, the grandchildren, yeah.
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, so when they had the grandchildren, they had a
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: little extra hand.
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: She still babysits for Beckett, but she- Yeah, but Beckett's
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: in school now. She comes over to our house. She goes, oh,
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: last night I was at Goldie and Kurt's. We had
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: a sleepover with the kids. Oh, must be nice. Sorry
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: about our dump. Yeah, so she's doing great.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: I'm sure she made sure.
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: But anyway, she was Christine Quinn's nanny too. And I
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: don't know.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: So what I think happened with that, and she probably
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: didn't realize it, but probably the husband, it's just a
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: control thing.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: I think he became more and more controlling and like
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: insecure and controlling. And she probably loved the nanny.
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: And he was like, you're not getting in, you know,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: and like, and then with, and then she's just like,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I don't even want this woman to see how weird
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: he is. I'd rather just let her go.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: Like like I think she was like protecting. And then
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I've also I also know someone who lived in the
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: neighborhood that would hear that they would fight and scream
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: and fight. And there was a lot of fighting. And
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: then there was from someone else that she was trying
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: to rent a house.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: At one point to leave him.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: And then didn't follow through with the rental.
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: So what did he do?
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: He threw a bag of glass.
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: And hit the kid or something?
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: The kid was okay, but hit the kid.
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: Where do you find a bag of glass?
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Who knows if they're just like cleaning up and something
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: broke and there's fighting and who knows what they're like.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: You know, in a contentious fight, how some awful person
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: would act. Yeah. But I hope she gets away from him.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I hope that both these girls are back on the
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: selling sunset because they liked each other.
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: This girl, Chelsea and Christine. They can wear their tiny
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: outfits and go date guys and get listings.
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Bring it back.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Bring it back. I, on Easter, we got this little,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: you know, gingerbread house, but it was like an Easter version.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: And so I was like, oh, come on, Haley. Like,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: you know, and Brandon did it too. Like, let's just
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: decorate it. And then Brandon goes, mom. Once we decorate
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: the house, you have to act like it's a selling
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: sunset house.
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: Oh, I watched it.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: So he did the video and everything, and I sold
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: the house for just under $ 18 million.
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: Oh, wow.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I got multiple offers on Instagram.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: So it must have been in Malibu.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: No, I said it was in L.A. County.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: Oh, okay.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: So it's just under $ 18, and I said it was
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: one-fourth of a square foot. Yeah. It has no bathrooms,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: no bathrooms, no baths.
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: But, you know.
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: If it went down and out, you could eat it. Yeah.
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: If it went down in value?
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, right.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Okay. So, Chris, tell everybody where they can find you.
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: I am in Tampa. Sidesplitters in Tampa. Saturday night, and
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: then I'm at Dania Beach Improv on Sunday night this
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: weekend that you're listening to this. And then I go
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: to Rooster Tee Feathers in Sunnyvale, Dallas Hyenas, and so
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: many more places. Franjola.fun has all my live dates, cover
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: to cover and all that. Come on out. We're having
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: a great time on the road. It's a lot of fun. Yes.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: And now for my very juicy interview from the writer
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: who really broke down the whole Jay Shetty story. thing
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: and how stories get squashed. And it's very interesting, super
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: juicy Hollywood story. And of course, everything for me is
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: at heathermcdoll.net. See you at Palm Beach this weekend. But
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: now for this juicy interview. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited because I have the journalist, John McDermott.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Juicy Scoop, who wrote the article in The
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: Guardian uncovering the higher truth of Jay Shetty. And I'm
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: so excited to talk to you about it.
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: I'm excited to talk to you. Thank you for having
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: me on.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I talked about it on a previous show
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: because it was a hot topic. And so just let
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: me give me a little background of what it's like
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to be a real journalist where you're really going deep
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: and doing these investigative pieces because that is something I
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: don't do. A lot of people sometimes get mad that
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: I don't have all the facts and things. And I'm
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: like this is– I'm a comedian and this is comedic
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: commentary about things I find juicy. So that's why I'm
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: glad to have the real person here to like answer
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: all the questions.
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 37:38
  Speaker 6: I'm a freelance journalist based here in Los Angeles. I
• 37:41
  Speaker 6: do a lot of writing or did a lot of
• 37:43
  Speaker 6: writing in the past for Esquire magazine. I've also written
• 37:45
  Speaker 6: for GQ. The New York Times, Chicago Tribune, when I
• 37:49
  Speaker 6: lived in Chicago, I wrote for them. So I've written
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: for a number of different publications. And, yeah, again, work
• 37:55
  Speaker 6: as a freelancer, so I kind of pick my own projects.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: How does that work? Like they say, hey, we want
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: to do a piece on Jay Shetty. We'd love to.
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: Like how does it all start?
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: And then what are the steps that you take as
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: the journalist to get that, you know, several pages long
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: story in a fancy magazine?
• 38:13
  Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: Typically, most of the times I operate where I'm pitching
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: the stories. I come up with an idea and then
• 38:19
  Speaker 6: I will pitch it to an editor or several different
• 38:22
  Speaker 6: editors at various public occasions where I think it would
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: be a good fit. And if they want it, they
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: buy it. And if they don't, they pass. And if
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: they want it, you kind of work out what you
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: think the angle would be, the length of it, what
• 38:34
  Speaker 6: the fee would be, all that stuff. And then you
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: execute the piece. This was pretty atypical because I would
• 38:40
  Speaker 6: say the vast majority of the pieces I write are
• 38:42
  Speaker 6: stuff that ideas I come up with and I pitch.
• 38:45
  Speaker 6: This was actually pitched to me and was assigned to
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: me by Esquire. And I want to make sure to
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: cover this because Jay's publicists and his attorneys have tried
• 38:56
  Speaker 6: to portray me as this obsessed hater who has a
• 39:00
  Speaker 6: preoccupation with Jay. And I was acting with malintent, right?
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: My intentions were impure. I did not know who Jay
• 39:10
  Speaker 6: Shetty was. Until I received this assignment from Esquire magazine.
• 39:14
  Speaker 6: And the only reason I received this Esquire, this assignment
• 39:17
  Speaker 6: from Esquire magazine is because Jay's publicists asked for me
• 39:21
  Speaker 6: specifically to write this article when they pitched it to Esquire.
• 39:26
  Speaker 6: I'd written about one of their other clients previously. They
• 39:29
  Speaker 6: enjoyed that.
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: Article.
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: That was kind of a light and fluffy piece about
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: a different type of influencer. Her name is Tinks.
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, I know Tinks. So you did something on Tinks.
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: Okay, great.
• 39:38
  Speaker 6: A day in the life of Tinks. And I wanted
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: to capture, you know, I'm very kind of interested with
• 39:42
  Speaker 6: what's going on culturally right now. We're in this very
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: interesting position where fame.
• 39:49
  Speaker 6: Is kind of hard to define. Who's really famous in
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: the internet age? Jay Shetty is a good example. This
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: is somebody who has tens of millions of followers, but
• 39:58
  Speaker 6: I've also had close personal friends of mine who read
• 40:01
  Speaker 6: this story after I shared it and they're like, I
• 40:03
  Speaker 6: had no idea who this guy was.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: So true.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 40:08
  Speaker 6: Because media is so fractured now, someone can have this intense,
• 40:12
  Speaker 6: rabid fan-based That's even in the millions of followers, but
• 40:15
  Speaker 6: then be completely unknown to someone else. You know, when
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: I was growing up, there were like a handful of
• 40:20
  Speaker 6: famous people and everyone knew who they were. It's totally
• 40:22
  Speaker 6: different now.
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Or it's like, oh, my kids will know. And, you know,
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: this person that's a YouTuber or whatever. And just like,
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: you know, I, of course, have a different reference. But yeah,
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: as we grew up, there were the famous people and
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: they were on the magazines, the Us Weeklys and all
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: that stuff. And now.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: It's just totally different. Before we get into this, I
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: was going to ask you, do you feel, you know,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: when I was at Chelsea lately, we would have we'd
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: get all the magazines.
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: And then there would be these longer articles about whatever,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paltrow.
• 41:00
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: And I used to joke that they would always be
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: written the same way that like, she arrived, she was
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: nice to the waitress, she ordered a tea as she
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: wished the hair behind her ear. And I was like,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: why is it always like what they ordered? And like,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: it was such a formula to that. And now that
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: there's opportunities for everybody to tell their story on a podcast,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: either as a guest or their own, has that affected you?
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: your business of writing these bigger pieces for magazines.
• 41:27
  Speaker 6: Absolutely. People like Tanks, people like Jay Shetty are no
• 41:31
  Speaker 6: longer as reliant on a magazine such as Esquire to
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: reach people. And it's kind of changed the power dynamic
• 41:39
  Speaker 6: where magazines for the entire time, they were the medium
• 41:42
  Speaker 6: through which celebrities were exposed to the world, right? So
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: they kind of had the upper hand. Now it's totally flipped.
• 41:49
  Speaker 6: Those magazines, they need famous people on the cover. So,
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: you know, when housewives are shopping in Walmart and they're
• 41:56
  Speaker 6: going through the checkout aisle, you know, they see, oh,
• 41:59
  Speaker 6: you know, Austin Butler is on the cover of the magazine.
• 42:02
  Speaker 6: All right, I'll take this or whoever's on People or
• 42:05
  Speaker 6: Us Weekly or whatever it is. But they don't necessarily
• 42:08
  Speaker 6: need it. So it has changed the dynamics such that
• 42:12
  Speaker 6: there's not as much adversarial coverage now. It's much fluffier.
• 42:17
  Speaker 6: It's always been kind of fluffy doing kind of access-driven
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: PR or access-driven celebrity journalism, which I've done. And, you know,
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: I'm proud of the celebrity profiles I wrote. You know,
• 42:28
  Speaker 6: I've profiled Nikki Glaser. She was very fun. And yeah,
• 42:33
  Speaker 6: she was very honest about her struggles with her eating
• 42:36
  Speaker 6: disorder and her various insecurities. I don't think it was
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: a very fluffy profile, but it was access-driven, right? It
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: was done with the understanding that, you know, she would
• 42:45
  Speaker 6: not have been doing it if it were not for
• 42:47
  Speaker 6: a publication as reputable as Esquire.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: But with that, I still do love reading, obviously, these
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: kind of articles because it is different. And I've been
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: a subject of these, and I really enjoy reading them
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: after to hear that you have this conversation with the writer,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: and they ask you questions and everything. But then I
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: love that they write you know, sometimes their point of
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: view or some other thing that they pulled from another
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: interview you did and make it, which is different than
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: just hearing a conversation on a podcast. And it gives
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: you a different insight and a different perspective that I
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: still think is super important and relevant today.
• 43:34
  Speaker 6: Absolutely. And when access-driven celebrity journalism is done well, it
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: can be very revealing and it can be more than
• 43:41
  Speaker 6: just pure fluff.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 43:42
  Speaker 6: But So I wrote that piece on tinks.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 43:45
  Speaker 6: And again, that was just kind of– I was interested
• 43:47
  Speaker 6: in what it was like to be this rising self-help–
• 43:51
  Speaker 6: or she's not a self-help influencer.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Sorry. But like advice and– Right.
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: She's in lifestyle.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: And she really blew up during the pandemic.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: Totally.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: And she did the unique thing of here's your starter
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: pack as a mom in Palo Alto, which was very clever.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: And a lot of people have kind of copied that
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: formula for different things. She's clever.
• 44:09
  Speaker 6: And now she's done her own thing. And she does
• 44:11
  Speaker 6: original work, which I think is– Important to note for
• 44:14
  Speaker 6: our purposes here today. You know, and then there are
• 44:17
  Speaker 6: people who don't like Tinks. I don't care if you
• 44:19
  Speaker 6: like Tinks. I don't care if you don't like Tinks.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 44:21
  Speaker 6: But I think she's an interesting person.
• 44:22
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 44:22
  Speaker 6: And she was worthy of a profile. And also kind
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: of speaks into this larger conversation about influencers and what
• 44:29
  Speaker 6: fame really is in this age. And, you know, she
• 44:32
  Speaker 6: leads a glamorous lifestyle. Like, we ate at the Ivy. Yeah.
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: You know, and I did all of the tropes you're
• 44:37
  Speaker 6: talking about, you know. I wrote about she ordered the
• 44:39
  Speaker 6: crab salad. I did all that.
• 44:41
  Speaker 5: So.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, good.
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: She is represented by the same PR agency that represents Jay.
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: They ask Esquire. Jay's new book was coming out in
• 44:55
  Speaker 6: either late 2022 or very early 2023. So either December
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: 2022 or January 2023. He was going on a big
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: book tour for it. So they say, hey, we really
• 45:07
  Speaker 6: like what John did with the Tinks piece. We know
• 45:10
  Speaker 6: he's in LA. Will he cover... the LA portion of
• 45:13
  Speaker 6: Jay's book tour. My editor brings this to me. She says,
• 45:17
  Speaker 6: are you available to do this? And I was like, Oh,
• 45:18
  Speaker 6: that's kind of interesting. And my original idea for the piece, again,
• 45:22
  Speaker 6: did not know who Jay Shetty was. I don't really
• 45:26
  Speaker 6: follow this kind of pseudo spiritual wellness space that closely.
• 45:31
  Speaker 6: I'm not against it per se, although I do think
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: there are some structural problems that need to be uncovered
• 45:38
  Speaker 6: as evidence here. Um, But I was kind of interested
• 45:42
  Speaker 6: in exploring it because the mainstreaming of mental health and
• 45:46
  Speaker 6: now it's being kind of combined with this spiritual element
• 45:49
  Speaker 6: is fascinating to me. Because now when you combine the
• 45:54
  Speaker 6: two together, you never really have to answer for either one.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:00
  Speaker 6: If you dismiss it, you're like, oh, well, that's just
• 46:02
  Speaker 6: a bunch of new age spiritual mumbo jumbo. You could
• 46:05
  Speaker 6: be like, well, no. Well, I reference all of this.
• 46:08
  Speaker 6: empirical psychological research that's very kind of based in science.
• 46:12
  Speaker 6: And so you can point to that and that kind
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: of gives it some legitimacy. But if you say, well, well, okay,
• 46:20
  Speaker 6: so then if you start to dive into the scientific part,
• 46:23
  Speaker 6: then you could be like, well, there's, it's spiritual, you know,
• 46:26
  Speaker 6: and it's not really subject to scientific inquiry.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 46:30
  Speaker 6: So it kind of straddles both of these lines and
• 46:34
  Speaker 6: there's just not a lot of accountability there.
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 46:37
  Speaker 6: So- That was my original.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Kind of take. Oh, that was your take.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 46:41
  Speaker 6: And also, and Jay was just kind of an entryway
• 46:43
  Speaker 6: to talk about the mainstreaming of these topics. And when
• 46:47
  Speaker 6: I was growing up, going to see a psychiatrist, going
• 46:50
  Speaker 6: to see a psychologist was kind of stigmatized. And now
• 46:55
  Speaker 6: just all of these psychological terms are just thrown around
• 46:57
  Speaker 6: in everyday conversation.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: Gaslighting, narcissism.
• 47:00
  Speaker 6: Trauma.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:01
  Speaker 6: Trauma dump.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 47:03
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 47:03
  Speaker 6: These things are- mainstream in a way that I never
• 47:06
  Speaker 6: could have anticipated.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: I just have to say, I just saw an ad
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: on like regular radio in LA that was like, did
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: you grow up in LA? I swear it was California
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: or LA and are suffering from toxic trauma?
• 47:22
  Speaker 6: Toxic trauma.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't like, it wasn't like, you know, were
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: you working at, you know, this Lockheed or whatever and
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: we lost it. But it was like, did you grow
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: up in LA and you're just like, because of her
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: toxic trauma.
• 47:35
  Speaker 6: Did you drink the trauma water?
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, probably. I grew up in LA.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: Am I feeling toxic? But it's, yeah, it's this kind
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: of thing. But okay, continue.
• 47:44
  Speaker 6: Right. So I go and that's kind of what my
• 47:47
  Speaker 6: original take is. I have lunch with Jay. We do
• 47:50
  Speaker 6: the interview over lunch. We're at Oceana in Santa Monica.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Very nice.
• 47:54
  Speaker 6: The hotel there. Yeah. And then we kind of split.
• 47:58
  Speaker 6: His show was in the evening. We split for the
• 48:00
  Speaker 6: afternoon and then I went to the show. And it
• 48:02
  Speaker 6: was during the show that, you know, my suspicions had
• 48:07
  Speaker 6: kind of been raised. I read his book. His book
• 48:11
  Speaker 6: was bad.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Is this his second book? How many books does he have?
• 48:15
  Speaker 6: If this was his second book, I actually read his
• 48:17
  Speaker 6: second book first.
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 48:18
  Speaker 6: So I had been working on some other deadlines and
• 48:21
  Speaker 6: was not able to read both of the books.
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 48:22
  Speaker 6: But I did with the understanding. I was like, all right,
• 48:24
  Speaker 6: I'll read the second book because that's what we're covering here.
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 48:27
  Speaker 6: And then I'll go in and fill in the gaps.
• 48:30
  Speaker 6: I'll read his first book, which is his kind of
• 48:32
  Speaker 6: like introduction to the world, Think Like a Monk. That's
• 48:35
  Speaker 6: his memoir. And I'll read that afterwards. So I read
• 48:37
  Speaker 6: his second book first. And I was kind of unimpressed.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 48:42
  Speaker 6: Because here's this guy who markets himself as a monk,
• 48:46
  Speaker 6: as a spiritual leader, and yet so little of what
• 48:49
  Speaker 6: was in the book pertained to his experience as a monk.
• 48:51
  Speaker 6: And I was like, well, if that's his origin story,
• 48:54
  Speaker 6: if that's his basis for his authority, where is it?
• 48:59
  Speaker 6: Why isn't it in the book? It's all just pop
• 49:00
  Speaker 6: psychology that's just taken from all these other sources and
• 49:04
  Speaker 6: put in the book, which I'm not against. I read
• 49:07
  Speaker 6: a lot about psychology. I'm fascinated by what makes people
• 49:11
  Speaker 6: tick and how they interact with each other. So that's
• 49:14
  Speaker 6: why I was able to clock it very easily It
• 49:16
  Speaker 6: was like, oh, these are all subjects that have been
• 49:19
  Speaker 6: heavily covered by countless other people. Again, with the mainstreaming
• 49:23
  Speaker 6: of mental health and psychology. So I was like, that's
• 49:27
  Speaker 6: a little bizarre. He's kind of unoriginal, which, you know,
• 49:30
  Speaker 6: not a crime, but sure, fine. But then I go
• 49:34
  Speaker 6: to the show and there were some off-putting moments of
• 49:36
  Speaker 6: the show.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Like what?
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: He.
• 49:40
  Speaker 6: He started the show with a rap, like a spoken
• 49:42
  Speaker 6: word performance.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: By himself? Yeah. Oh, he did it.
• 49:45
  Speaker 6: Jay's original aspiration was to be a rapper.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting.
• 49:50
  Speaker 6: His idol, I believe, is Eminem. So in.
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 49:59
  Speaker 6: And apparently, you know, when he was a teenager, he
• 50:01
  Speaker 6: kind of, you know, like the term in London would
• 50:03
  Speaker 6: be like a rude boy. Because he grew up in London.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 50:06
  Speaker 6: Somebody who traffics in kind of like gangster urban aesthetics.
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 50:13
  Speaker 6: You know, kind of interesting for somebody who came from
• 50:15
  Speaker 6: a traditional Indian family. So he wanted to be a rapper.
• 50:19
  Speaker 6: And actually in the investigation, we found a video of
• 50:22
  Speaker 6: him rapping on stage at a Hare Krishna event when
• 50:25
  Speaker 6: he was a teenager.
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 50:27
  Speaker 6: Before he claims to have ever had any kind of
• 50:30
  Speaker 6: background in spirituality.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: So he's like, oh, my first introduction was going to
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: this thing, not– and when I was 16, coincidentally, I
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: was able to do a rap, but he never said that.
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: To me, that's very weird. As someone who has written memoirs,
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: shared everything about my life, especially on this podcast, that's
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: what I was trying to convey when I just covered
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: yours for a little bit on it.
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: No, that is wrong. If your whole career is kind
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: of sharing about yourself and being authentic, and then we
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: find out that the stories that we were told are
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: not totally right or not true or not in the actual,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: the timeline changes, that tells me a lot about the person.
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: And you bring up an interesting point. Some of the
• 51:19
  Speaker 6: reactions I've gotten is like, well, what does it matter?
• 51:21
  Speaker 6: I like the content Jay has shared. It's been meaningful
• 51:25
  Speaker 6: to me. And I don't want to take that away
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: from You know, Jay shared something new that's resonated. Yeah,
• 51:30
  Speaker 6: that's great. You know, and that feeling that you felt
• 51:34
  Speaker 6: is just as real.
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 51:36
  Speaker 6: But when people try to make this separate the art
• 51:39
  Speaker 6: from the artist argument, which is something I genuinely generally
• 51:42
  Speaker 6: agree with, you know, Kanye West is one of my favorites.
• 51:45
  Speaker 6: Michael Jackson.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: If you're shopping at the mall and you hear Pretty
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Young Thing, are you going to immediately run out of
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Nordstrom because you saw Leaving Neverland? Right. And I believe
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: that doc. I've always believed that about him. I never
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: choose to play that music. But yeah, if I'm someplace
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: and it's playing, do I find myself bopping to it? Yeah.
• 52:13
  Speaker 6: Totally a fair comparison.
• 52:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 52:15
  Speaker 6: The difference is that with Jay, there isn't that separation
• 52:18
  Speaker 6: between art and artist. He is selling himself. He is
• 52:22
  Speaker 6: the product. Everything is about him and funnels into him
• 52:26
  Speaker 6: and his backstory. So once that backstory comes into question,
• 52:32
  Speaker 6: what are we left with? That's the question. That would
• 52:35
  Speaker 6: be my response to people who make that defense of Jay.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: So you're at the show. It starts out with a
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: fun rap that he does.
• 52:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: And then what?
• 52:45
  Speaker 6: Kind of like a spoken word style performance. And then
• 52:49
  Speaker 6: the first segment that I kind of looked sideways at
• 52:53
  Speaker 6: was that he, you know, he asked the crowd, he's like,
• 52:55
  Speaker 6: who has trouble putting down their phone? And of course,
• 52:58
  Speaker 6: you know.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Everybody.
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 53:00
  Speaker 6: He invites, he was like, so would someone like to
• 53:02
  Speaker 6: come up on stage? This young woman comes up on stage.
• 53:06
  Speaker 6: She talks about, you know, how she's trying to get
• 53:07
  Speaker 6: better about leaving her phone around. He's like, well, you know,
• 53:11
  Speaker 6: putting her phone down. He's like, well, so to demonstrate this,
• 53:13
  Speaker 6: we're going to put you in this sensory deprivation chamber.
• 53:17
  Speaker 6: And he kind of brought a literal black box out
• 53:20
  Speaker 6: onto the stage and put noise-canceling headphones on her and
• 53:24
  Speaker 6: then just had her sitting there and we watched her
• 53:27
  Speaker 6: from a live feed, like on.
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: The projection screen.
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: So she just has to sit there by herself?
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: Just twiddling her thumbs.
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: A little bizarre.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: So she doesn't get to watch the show or anything.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: She has to just be like that.
• 53:39
  Speaker 6: For like 10 minutes or so.
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Very weird.
• 53:43
  Speaker 6: A little bizarre.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: And not really fair to the person that just thought
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: they were going to get to maybe do a Q
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: & A with him in a sense.
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: Now they're in this thing.
• 53:52
  Speaker 6: I don't recall him telling her that she would be
• 53:55
  Speaker 6: on a live feed.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 53:57
  Speaker 6: To the rest of the audience. Maybe they discussed it
• 53:59
  Speaker 6: in hushed tones on the stage.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Probably not.
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: But I don't remember him asking. If it happened, I
• 54:06
  Speaker 6: didn't hear it.
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 54:07
  Speaker 5: So.
• 54:08
  Speaker 6: Then later on, late in the show, the show was
• 54:10
  Speaker 6: three and a half hours, by the way. It had
• 54:12
  Speaker 6: an intermission.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: Did everyone come back after the intermission?
• 54:16
  Speaker 6: For the most part, I saw, yeah. Because I was
• 54:19
  Speaker 6: there with press, I was sitting among kind of the
• 54:23
  Speaker 6: other VIPs.
• 54:24
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 54:24
  Speaker 6: So it was just kind of a who's who of
• 54:26
  Speaker 6: everyone who operates within this space. Again, not people I know,
• 54:28
  Speaker 6: but the woman I sat next to was like, oh,
• 54:30
  Speaker 6: there's Lewis Howes and all these other wellness luminaries and podcasters.
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 54:38
  Speaker 6: Toward the end, again, he asked kind of a general question.
• 54:41
  Speaker 6: He was like, who here is having trouble with a
• 54:43
  Speaker 6: relationship in their life? Again, it can apply to everyone.
• 54:48
  Speaker 6: Invites this other woman onto the stage. She tells this
• 54:51
  Speaker 6: story about how she's been estranged from her brother for years,
• 54:53
  Speaker 6: haven't talked in years. And Jay has her call him
• 54:58
  Speaker 6: on the stage. First call goes to voicemail. Jay takes
• 55:01
  Speaker 6: the phone out of her hand, ends the call, and
• 55:03
  Speaker 6: immediately calls back and instructs her. She was like, this
• 55:06
  Speaker 6: time if it goes to voicemail, I want you to
• 55:07
  Speaker 6: leave a message. Again, in front of an audience of,
• 55:10
  Speaker 6: I want to say close to 3,000 people.
• 55:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 55:13
  Speaker 6: It was at the YouTube theater in the kind of
• 55:16
  Speaker 6: SoFi complex. And we'd listen to this woman give a
• 55:19
  Speaker 6: very heartfelt, difficult message to her brother, whom, again, hasn't
• 55:25
  Speaker 6: talked to in years. A very kind of intimate, personal
• 55:27
  Speaker 6: moment shared with 3,000 of your closest friends.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: And there's no question that maybe this wasn't a plant.
• 55:36
  Speaker 6: I did not get that impression. I mean, is it possible?
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 55:40
  Speaker 6: But just the way these women behaved seemed... Authentic.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 55:44
  Speaker 6: And there was nothing especially kind of theatrical about it.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:49
  Speaker 6: That would make me think that. But a bunch of
• 55:50
  Speaker 6: people have asked that because I know in shows similar
• 55:53
  Speaker 6: like these, you know, that's not uncommon to have a plant.
• 55:59
  Speaker 6: So when that was happening, when the woman was leaving
• 56:01
  Speaker 6: the voicemail, I distinctly remember the woman, two seats to
• 56:03
  Speaker 6: my right in the audience... She audibly said, this is mortifying.
• 56:11
  Speaker 6: It was just, again, kind of an off-putting energy.
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 56:15
  Speaker 6: Other friends of mine that I know who were at
• 56:18
  Speaker 6: that were, they came in big fans of Jay Shetty.
• 56:22
  Speaker 6: They left not so big fans of Jay Shetty.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 56:25
  Speaker 6: Just in general, the atmosphere and the ambiance of the
• 56:28
  Speaker 6: event kind of put them off. So I.
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Was....
• 56:33
  Speaker 6: You know, I was just like, well, so what do
• 56:35
  Speaker 6: we know about this guy? You know, he writes this book.
• 56:38
  Speaker 6: It's pretty unoriginal. He has a stage show that's kind
• 56:40
  Speaker 6: of Tony Robbins-esque.
• 56:42
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 56:42
  Speaker 6: In its execution. And, you know, there was another incident before.
• 56:52
  Speaker 6: So Jay monetizes every single aspect. I mean, nickel and
• 56:57
  Speaker 6: dimes every single part of the way.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: Give us some examples.
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 57:01
  Speaker 6: He charged something like $ 300 for a VIP package, which
• 57:06
  Speaker 6: meant you got to attend a Q & A before
• 57:08
  Speaker 6: the show that included a meditation session. And then you
• 57:11
  Speaker 6: got to meet Jay afterward and do a meet and
• 57:13
  Speaker 6: greet and like, you know, get two minutes, shake his hand. Pretty,
• 57:17
  Speaker 6: you know, it's a nice chunk of change. But during
• 57:20
  Speaker 6: the Q & A beforehand, I remember this woman asked
• 57:23
  Speaker 6: a very, what I thought was a very poignant question.
• 57:25
  Speaker 6: So again, he has this book, Eight Rules of Love.
• 57:28
  Speaker 6: It's all about relationships and how to improve your relationships.
• 57:32
  Speaker 6: No one ever bothered to ask why a monk who
• 57:35
  Speaker 6: took a vow of celibacy would be an authority on relationships.
• 57:41
  Speaker 6: He took a vow of celibacy, was celibate during his
• 57:43
  Speaker 6: time as a monk, and then married the first girl
• 57:46
  Speaker 6: he started dating once he left the ashram. So this
• 57:50
  Speaker 6: woman asks about non-monogamy. And she was like, you know,
• 57:52
  Speaker 6: what are your thoughts on, you know, Different types of
• 57:57
  Speaker 6: non-monogamous relationships, be they poly or monogamish or stuff like that,
• 58:03
  Speaker 6: which I thought was a very pointy question.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Especially for today.
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: Totally.
• 58:06
  Speaker 6: I mean, the definition of how a relationship can be
• 58:11
  Speaker 6: in its various forms is kind of being brought into question.
• 58:14
  Speaker 6: And a lot of people are trying to redefine that.
• 58:16
  Speaker 6: And Jay didn't really have an answer for her. He
• 58:18
  Speaker 6: just kind of spoke in circles. He's like, well, you know,
• 58:22
  Speaker 6: you have to talk with your partner and communicate and
• 58:24
  Speaker 6: find out. What works with you? Again, very generic, nothing
• 58:29
  Speaker 6: very substantive. So I went home and over the next
• 58:33
  Speaker 6: few days, I was like, all right, well, what do
• 58:36
  Speaker 6: we know about this guy? And I found all this
• 58:38
  Speaker 6: information that inspired me to take up this investigation.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: So what was some of the things you found out
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: that were put out there by him that you found
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: were not accurate?
• 58:50
  Speaker 6: The thing that really inspired me to take this up
• 58:53
  Speaker 6: was this video by Nicole Arbor. Yes. If you know
• 58:55
  Speaker 6: who she is.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, I mentioned that part of your article on my show.
• 58:59
  Speaker 6: I mean, this was so.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: It was like 2017 or something.
• 59:03
  Speaker 6: Wasn't it?
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: Or 19?
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: I want to say 2019.
• 59:06
  Speaker 6: Or 2020 that she put out this video very explicitly
• 59:09
  Speaker 6: showing that Jay was a serial plagiarist and that his
• 59:14
  Speaker 6: social media fame was fueled by taking other people's content
• 59:18
  Speaker 6: and pawning it off as his own.
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:21
  Speaker 6: And again, this had been out there for, I want
• 59:23
  Speaker 6: to say, three years at the time.
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: Per video.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: And she was very popular.
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:26
  Speaker 6: And the one thing that I don't understand is that
• 59:30
  Speaker 6: So many other publications wrote all of these glowing profiles
• 59:33
  Speaker 6: of Jay. And this, a lot of this information that
• 59:35
  Speaker 6: I found, which is out there, just ready for the taking.
• 59:39
  Speaker 6: It just took somebody to kind of put it all together. Yeah.
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: It's weird how some things, something can be so small
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: and it really catches like a wildfire and every, and
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: there's so people are angry and there's, they're doing their
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: own videos and they're this per and you know, And
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: then something like this, it's like, why did so few
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: people care?
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 6: I do not understand. I think, well, actually, I do know.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 6: Because when I was pitching this around, a lot of
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 6: editors told me, like, so what's the big deal? He's
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 6: another self-help guy whose backstory might not entirely check out.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 6: There are a lot of people that have embellished their credentials,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 6: their resume. What does it matter? To which I say, well,
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 6: just as a general principle, it's not good to lie
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 6: about who you are. Not calling Jay a liar. I'm
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 6: just saying as a general principle, if somebody misrepresents who
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 6: they are, that's not a good thing. But it takes
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 6: on an entirely different dynamic when you build an entire
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 6: business around those claims. Jay's life coaching school was taking
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 6: seven grand for people for a life coaching certification that
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 6: was based on some really dubious claims. And we can
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 6: get into those details later. But when you're doing that,
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 6: when you're taking people.
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: Well, no, let's just talk about the life because we're
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: on it and then we'll go back.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 6: Sure.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: So explain.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 6: Right. But when you're taking people's hard-earned money, there's material
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 6: harm being done, you know?
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 6: And I'm not saying people have to stop supporting Jay,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 6: but I think you should have all the facts about
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 6: who this person is before you fork over, you know,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 6: your dollars. So one thing we revealed in the investigation,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 6: and I have to credit my editor at The Guardian,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 6: Sam Wolfson- for really pushing me to explore this because
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 6: at first I saw the life coaching school and it
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 6: kind of smelled like an MLM.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Multi-level marketing.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 6: Or as some people would say, a pyramid scheme. But
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 6: for whatever reason, that didn't interest me as much as
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 6: getting into his backstory.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: I just want to say I've covered MLMs a lot
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: and I don't remember, but somebody wrote me And they're like, Heather,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: I'm telling you, and this was probably six months ago,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: this life coaching thing is going to be the new
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: scam that's uncovered because it is out of control.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 6: Who's hiring all these life coaches?
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know one person who– actually, I know one
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: person who was a realtor who hired a realtor life
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: coach like five years ago. Other than that, I don't
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: really know. I do have a friend who– um, kind
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: of created her being a divorce coach.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 4: Interesting.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: And I thought, and I think that her name's Alex
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Cap corner and I know her and I think, and
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: I thought it was genius. And I had her on
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: my show because I'm like, it's a woman that's been
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: through it and they can kind of not being an attorney,
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: help you with all the things that, that you're not
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: going to spend $ 300 crying to your attorney about. She's
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: going to be like, Hey, get these things. And maybe
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: you even meet with her before you let your husband know, whatever.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I thought, now that's something valuable. Like, and a personal
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: trainer is valuable. And if it's like a specific business,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: even like a realtor life coach, that's like, okay, how
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: many cold calls did you kind of force you to
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: go door knocking, whatever. But in general life coaching, I
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: don't really get it. And I don't get who's doing it.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 6: And I'm not against coaching.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 6: You know, in the general sense, I've had coaches in
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 6: my life. I've had mentors in my life. I had
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 6: journalism mentors. But- If a coach, like a divorce coach,
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 6: who's been through a very specific experience and is offering
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 6: you advice about a specific area that they have expertise in,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 6: that is something different than a life coach. What authority
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 6: does this person have on life? What authority does anybody
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 6: have on telling you how to live? And I found
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 6: a series of YouTube videos by this guy who was
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 6: going through the Jay Shetty program. And he talked about
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 6: how he wanted to be a life coach. Because he
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 6: had failed in all of his other business endeavors. And
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 6: it just struck me.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: I was like, well, why?
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: Why would I hire someone that is not– wasn't successful?
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Like it's one thing too to like, yeah, you're paying
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: someone– and there are people that are really successful. And
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: they're like, I'll pay you $ 500 just to talk to
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: me for 20 minutes because I need your– yeah, you're
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: right though. But just someone that has no– Like they're
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: not successful financially or romantically or personally or anything. And
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: now you're going to, and that person thinks that they're
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: going to take this course and then be able to
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: get 20 clients and make 500,000 a year.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 6: It's part of this cultural thing now where everyone just
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 6: thinks they're going to be a millionaire doing as little
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 6: work as possible.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 6: Whether it's crypto or- Podcasting.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 6: Or just like, you know, with the stock market craze,
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 6: when all the meme stocks were going crazy. Everyone thinks
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 6: they're going to be the one who like has the
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 6: secret and they're going to, you know, work from their
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 6: laptop beside a pool in Bali and doing this fake
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 6: email job that somehow pays them, you know, 200 grand
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 6: a year to live this lavish lifestyle. And life just
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 6: isn't like that. You know, I mean, by virtue of
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 6: my job as a journalist, I've interviewed a lot of
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 6: successful people. By and large, successful people are talented and hardworking.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 6: And they did it for years before they broke through.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 6: They didn't take shortcuts.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: So true.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: So getting back to you, start to investigate the life
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: coaching thing.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 6: So in his marketing materials, Jay claimed that the Jay
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 6: Shetty Certification School, which is his online life coaching certification program,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 6: was connected to various universities in the UK. He named
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 6: four universities by name. And essentially was telling these people
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 6: that by completing the Jay Shetty Certification School.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: For $ 7, 000.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 6: For $ 7, 400. I actually got on a call with one
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 6: of the enrollment advisors who is a salesperson. It's a
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 6: person working 100% commission-based sales job, which I think is telling.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 6: That person has no incentive to tell you, hey, you're
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 6: not right for this. Don't sign up for this. Their
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 6: entire incentive is to get you to sign up.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 6: Their compensation depends on. So like you.
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: Could call and you could say, like, I live in
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: a cabin 200 miles away from any other living being
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: and I actually don't have internet, but I'm thinking I
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: take this course. Could I be a life coach? And
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: they would be like, yes, you can.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 6: I can't say I don't want to speak in hypotheticals.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: But possibly.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 6: It's possible.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 4: Sure.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 6: If they have evidence that they have turned people away,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 6: I would like to see it.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 6: Because in speaking with people who have gone through the
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 6: Jay Shetty Certification School, people who have reached out to
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 6: me after the article published, they got the sense that
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 6: they were told it was going to be an exclusive
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 6: group with small working groups and very hands-on. They got
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 6: the impression that they just let anybody in who.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: Was willing to pay. Did they ever say, we help
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: you get clients or anything?
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 6: There is a portion of it where they help you.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 6: They say, yes, we will help you market.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: To procure clients.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 6: Not that directly. Instead, they'll help you market your life
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 6: coaching school. And then they'll give you tactics to do
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 6: online marketing and kind of build up this business of
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 6: your own.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: So the one thing is he says we're associated with
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: these four universities and you found that to be what?
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 6: Every single one of the four universities say we have
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 6: no idea who Jay Shetty is or why we aren't
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 6: included in his marketing materials. There is no affiliation between
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 6: our organization and theirs. And we want our names taken
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 6: off the marketing materials. And- All those names have since
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 6: been removed.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Since your article came out.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: Interesting. Okay. So there's that.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 6: He also claimed it was accredited by a governing body
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 6: that's based in the UK. And that governing body also
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 6: said that the language on Jay Shetty's website as it
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 6: pertains to them was inaccurate and misleading and that they
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 6: wanted their name removed as well.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: And has their name been removed too?
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: But right now it still exists. I could still have
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: paid seven grand and joined, 7,400. Far as I know. Okay.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: But from before this published, those people were all on
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: it and now they're gone.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 6: Correct.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: So, and all right, what else? Talk about the monk situation.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 6: Okay. So Jay's, again, when my suspicions were raised, well,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 6: so the plagiarism thing, I saw the.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: About all the– so he would do these videos and
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: he is good looking.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: He has an English accent which makes Americans always think–
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: Posh British.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 4: Accent, yes.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: People that have an English accent are smarter than us.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 6: Piercing green eyes.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 6: Like nice cheekbones. He's handsome. It's a very nice package.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: And so he would be saying these quotes and philosophies
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: and you know, like one of the most famous quotes
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: of someone that I think is a great one to
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: live with. And I, and we always were told Maya,
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: Maya Angelou came up with this and I believe that
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: she has, I don't think there isn't is when somebody
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: shows you who they are, believe them. I remember Oprah
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: having her on it and that is something That's what
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: I believe to be true. That's what I remember watching Oprah,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: her interviewing her, her saying it, and then it kind
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: of going on, you know, just like I believe Oprah
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: was the first to be like, what's your aha moment?
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: So whenever I say, as Oprah would say, what was
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: your aha moment to know that you should leave this person, whatever.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: So I think then sometimes people, but if all of
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: a sudden we saw, it was like if we saw
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: a video with Jay saying, you know, when somebody shows
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: you who they are, believe them. And he's selling it.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: Like he came up with that himself. That is what
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: was going on with lots of philosophical and spiritual and
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: inspirational quotes and, and theories.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 6: He would take a tweet that some kind of, you know,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 6: just random Twitter user and kind of put it out
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 6: and repurpose it on his Instagram to make it appear
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 6: as though it was a Jay Shetty original. Uh, no
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 6: credit given. You know, I would say even, you know,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 6: he still does this to this day where he takes
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 6: people's social media posts, repurposes them. He doesn't take a
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 6: screenshot of the post and then post that. He puts
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 6: them in his own format with a credit to that person.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 6: But it's still kind of a gray area.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: Like if I sometimes do the inspirational quote thing, I
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: do that. I just do the thing and then it
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: goes to my stories and it's their thing.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 6: Totally.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 6: But he does it without, you know, Because I interviewed
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 6: some people. I was like, hey, I saw that your
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 6: quote had been repurposed on Jay's channels. Did he talk
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 6: to you about this? All the people I talked to
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 6: said they had never heard from Jay or anyone from
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 6: his team. They didn't give him permission and they didn't
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 6: get compensation. He did credit them. He did tag them.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 6: But is that the right thing to do? People have
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 6: different feelings about that.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: I think at his level, no, it's not, in my opinion.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 6: But the plagiarism thing really stuck out to me because
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 6: it is so easy to get caught for plagiarism on
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 6: the internet. I mean, all you have to do is
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 6: put the two posts side by side, and there are
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 6: timestamps there, and it can very clearly be an indication
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 6: that someone lifted someone else's content. So my thought being,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 6: why would someone of this stature engage in those type
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 6: of tactics? And if they were willing to do that,
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 6: what else are they being potentially dishonest about? Doesn't that
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 6: really pick my radar? And, you know, I personally also,
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 6: you know, you're an online creator. It's tough to make
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 6: a living as a creative professional. So that somebody would
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 6: take somebody else's content.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've had stand-up jokes stolen.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 6: Oh, yeah.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: I've had bits of my stand-up that shortly after it,
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: like within months after my special went out, I saw
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: a whole scenario acted out on a major sitcom.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: Oh, wow.
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 6: They didn't act out? Yeah.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: Like I told the story and it really did happen
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: to us.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: And my kids were watching the show and they were like, mom.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: And on this particular show, it would happen like three times.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 6: Did you pursue any remedy?
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: Because I know how hard it is and I know
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: that it's not worth it. And I know that the
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: world doesn't care.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: And then in this business that it might make you
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: look appear to be problematic. And just, you know, just
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: like Louis CK didn't want those two girls to get
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: writing jobs because he was afraid they would share the
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: story of when he masturbated in front of them. People
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: will just want to keep you out of the rooms
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: so that you don't share an unflattering story about them.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: So it's like that. It's not as direct as people
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: think it is in this business.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 6: Totally. And I think a lot of people have the mindset.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 6: I'm like, well, it was just a few memes that
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 6: Jay lifted. Or in your case, you know, it's just
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 6: a little joke. Like they think these jokes are just
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 6: floating around and just get plucked out of the air.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 6: I mean, you put thought into it, into brainpower. You
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 6: spent some time refining those bits, I'm sure. It took effort. Yeah.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 6: And I don't think people always recognize that.
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 6: So then after the plagiarism stuff, I found all of
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 6: these Reddit threads and some on Quora from people saying
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 6: they were from Jay's religious community in London and that
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 6: his story didn't check out.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: So what was his story and what didn't match?
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 6: Jay's story is that he was not interested in spiritualism
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 6: until he was a freshman at Cass Business School in London.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 6: The name has since changed to Bayes Business School. And
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 6: then one day he gets dragged to a lecture given
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 6: by a monk. And this lecture just completely changes his life.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 6: He's so in awe of this monk and the wisdom
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 6: and just the– the holy energy radiating from the sky
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 6: that it completely changed his life and he goes on
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 6: to pursue a life of spiritualism. After he graduates, spends
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 6: three years in an ashram in India, he decides to
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 6: leave because his calling is to use his gift as
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 6: a speaker to share wisdom with the world. That's his
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 6: origin story. And we began looking into that and we
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 6: found what we found.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 4: Which is?
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 6: Well, first of all, that epiphany that he experienced at
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 6: the lecture comes into question. So what I found is
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 6: that I read both of Jay's books. I read the
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 6: other book as well. Literally the first line of his
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 6: book is that when I was 18 years old, I
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 6: attended this lecture, right? That's the first line of the
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 6: introduction to the book before even the first chapter. The
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 6: problem with that is, is that Jay now says that
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 6: it happened when he was in 2007. Jay wasn't 18
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 6: when he was In 2007. Jay and I are just
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 6: a month apart in age. We were both born in 1987.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 6: In 2007, he would have been at least 19 years old.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 6: If not 20, he would have turned 20 that year.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 6: So the book says 18. His official story that he
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 6: gave us now through his attorneys said it was in 2007.
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 6: He couldn't have been 18 in 2007. The math just
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 6: doesn't work. And then in all these, you know, before
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 6: we even went to his attorneys and all these other interviews,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 6: he said sometimes it was 18, sometimes it was 19.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 6: Sometimes it was 21. Sometimes it was 22. Again, this is.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 4: Oh, really?
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. See, to me, as someone who has shared and
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: written about my childhood, college times, everything, there is no,
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: you know how fucking old you were when you were
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: a freshman in college or when you, how old you
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: were when you graduated in college. You know how old
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: you were. He's not 95 trying to recall. It is
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: whatever he is, 40. So I'm like, yeah, that to
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: me says a lot.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 6: Yeah, he's 36. And again, this isn't like a stray
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 6: minor detail. This is what he describes as the single
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 6: most transformational experience of his life. It changed the trajectory
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 6: of his life. Irrevocably. It changed everything. And you can't
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 6: remember when it happened.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: When somebody has the opposite, when somebody has something traumatic
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: happen to them, they remember everything. Like they remember, I
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: was wearing this. I had this for breakfast. This was
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: the last thing I said to my mom. You know,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: if something horrible happens, like the day their brother died, whatever.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: You remember that for years and years and years. So
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: you would remember this the same way, in my opinion.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 6: And I can't find any record that this lecture... even occurred.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 6: I asked Cass Business School, their records don't go back
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 6: that far.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: So you don't even, oh, so they don't know.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: All right. There's no confirmation that happened.
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 6: It theoretically could have occurred. But even more so than that,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 6: Jay's story that he didn't have a spiritual life. So
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 6: he always tells people that that was his first time
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 6: he's ever met a monk. He told that to Ari Emanuel,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 6: the head of William Morris Endeavor, which I don't know
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 6: if you're viewers will know, is the single most high-powered
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 6: talent agency in Hollywood. Jay is repped and backed by
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 6: the elite of Hollywood, the most powerful people in this industry.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 6: But even that story comes into question because we found
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 6: proof that he had been a part of ISKCON, the
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 6: International Society for Christian Consciousness, or the Hare Krishnas, since
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 6: he was 14. He grew up in a religious organization.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 6: So he couldn't have possibly not met a monk until
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 6: he was 18 or 19 or whenever it was. And
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 6: we have video evidence showing him at various events attended
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 6: by other monks that occurred before he claims that lecture.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: That moment.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: So now you're finding this all out while you're writing
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: this article for Esquire.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 6: Well, so when I initially found all these red threads,
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 6: I went back to Esquire and I was like, hey.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 6: I know you wanted one thing, but I think we
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 6: might have stumbled onto something else entirely here. And, you know, again,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 6: Jay's people have tried to brand me as somebody with
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 6: a vendetta against Jay. Again, didn't know who Jay was
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 6: before I got this assignment. But I'm not going to
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 6: sit here and pretend like I'm not an ambitious reporter.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 6: When I get a juicy scoop. Right, exactly. I'm going
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 6: to pursue it.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 6: And this was. And I told them, I was like,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 6: this is a scoop that doesn't come around very often.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 6: And I was like, I'm not sure this guy's story
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 6: checks out. And so I sent them, you know, I
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 6: sent them the Nicole Arbor video. I sent them another
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 6: YouTube video by a different YouTuber named Kia, Kia's World.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 6: She does great YouTube trends. She's a journalist by trade,
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 6: but does this incredible YouTube channel breaking down the wellness
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 6: industry and the various people in it. So I sent
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 6: them all that. I sent them these various Reddit threads
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 6: and what little I had found about these inconsistencies in
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 6: Jay's timeline. And Esquire killed the piece. Right then and there.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 6: And they were not interested in turning what was supposed
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 6: to be a fluffy profile into an investigation.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: Now, what I said when I saw that part of
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: the story was I was like, this is what you
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: people want to really know. That it's– there is an
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: elite power thing that happens in Hollywood and it's not
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: worth it to them to piss off these people. Again, yeah.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: And then not have any more clients from them, not–
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: it's not worth it for this one article or issue. Totally.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: So that happened. So then what did you do?
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 6: Well, I think it's important to note that Jay's publicity
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 6: agency also represents Matthew McConaughey, who was on the cover
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 6: of Esquire in fall of 2022, just a few months
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 6: before I got this assignment. And they don't even need
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 6: to make a threat. It's just kind of understood. You
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 6: burn one of our clients, we're going to revoke access
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 6: to your others. I mean, that's just how the celebrity
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 6: media game works. And so, you know, as far as
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 6: editors know that, again, they need access in order for
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 6: them to put out a magazine, in order for their
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 6: publication to work. I mean, this is, you know, all
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 6: stuff that's kind of hidden to the average viewer, but
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 6: they will never know. So, sorry, would you?
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: But, you know, that's what I honestly, just to make
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: about me again, but that's what I love about doing
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: this and that it is successful because I have such
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 1: loyal listeners and people that come see my show is because, like,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: I've had, people that you know maybe aren't comfortable talking
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: like that on my show or don't want to share
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: something or like we got to keep it light because
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: i'm i am so um dependent on these powerful people
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: putting me in their movies and their specials and this
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: and that totally what i kind of love is when
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: i realize like i've got nothing to fucking lose yeah
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 1: and it is so fun and freeing because i'm like Oh,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: was I up for something I didn't know about? And
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: now this episode is going to come out and they're
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: going to be like, cut Heather McDonald. She's a bitch
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: that talked about Jake Shetty. Good. It's not going to
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: change my lifestyle.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 6: Yeah. But, you know, there is a calculus there. I mean,
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 6: there have been times where I've interviewed someone and they've
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 6: said something interesting and they've asked me to not include
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 6: it in the article.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: I understand that part. And I haven't included because it did.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 6: Not seem worth it to tarnish their reputation.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: Right. Of course.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: Of course.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 6: This seemed worth it for me to pursue.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 6: A hundred percent.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: So you hear this and you're like, what? Fuck that.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: I'm going to get this story out.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: What?
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 6: I mean, kind of.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 6: You know, again, I don't have any exclusivity with Esquire.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 4: I'm a freelancer.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 6: I work on a project basis. So I told him,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 6: I was like, you know, I'm going to pursue this elsewhere.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 6: I hope you know that. And, you know, I am
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 6: free to do that.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: So was The Guardian the first place you went?
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 6: No, I went to some other places.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: I And did some other people say, we don't want
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: to touch this piece of shit? This got some stink
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: on it that we're scared of? Yeah.
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 6: And especially because Esquire had killed it, that kind of
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 6: tainted it in some people's eyes. And, you know, I
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 6: understand why Esquire did it. I'm actually really kind of
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 6: upset that this backstory has kind of been dragged into it.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 6: I love Esquire. Esquire was a magazine I grew up reading.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 6: I was literally a dream come true the first time
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 6: I wrote for Esquire and to write for them, contribute
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 6: to them frequently. I mean, that's all I wanted to
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 6: be when I was a kid. I wanted to be
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 6: a writer for Esquire. I adored that magazine and I
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 6: still do. The only reason we have brought it up
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 6: is that it, because it became very apparent that Jay's
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 6: team was going to try to use that information to
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 6: discredit me and discredit the story. So we felt like
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 6: we had no choice but to get ahead of it. And,
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 6: you know, when I went to Sam Wolfson, the editor
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 6: at The Guardian, And I told him, I was like, look,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 6: this is bizarre origin story behind this article that I'm
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 6: looking into. And I tried to be very transparent with him. So,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 6: you know, I didn't want it to be like this,
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 6: but it felt like our hand was forced.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: So what other things does your article reveal that you
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: can share?
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 6: So also as a part of Jay's backstory is that
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 6: he claims that he moved to India after he graduated
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 6: and we found, and that he was in the ashram there.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 6: Ashram is the Sanskrit term for monastery, essentially for this
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 6: branch of Buddhism, or this branch of Hinduism, excuse me.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 6: But we found a bunch of information, first-person accounts from
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 6: people who were in London who say, you know, Jay
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 6: was not in India for that period of time. He
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 6: spent the vast majority of his time in Watford, which
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 6: is a town outside of London. He was at the
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 6: ashram there. We found....
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: Newsletters kind of like, and would the reason to say
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: I was in the monastery in Indian versus India versus
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 1: the monastery in London is because it's just a more authentic,
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: it sounds like more real or like he's less fancy
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: or like, why would you lie about?
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 6: Cause I think in the mind of white Westerners who
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 6: aren't familiar with, that's.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: What I'm saying. It seems more real or something more
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: special or.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 6: This idea that you were in the mountains of India, uh,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 6: You know, studying these ancient spiritual texts is a very
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 6: compelling narrative, right? What's a more compelling narrative? You know,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 6: I wasn't interested in spiritualism. I have this epiphany because
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 6: of this one holy man comes to speak with me
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 6: and then I follow him to India and learn from
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 6: him for three years in an ashram in India. Or, yeah,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 6: I grew up in this religious organization. My family was
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 6: part of it. And I kind of came around when
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 6: I was 18.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 1: And then joined the monastery outside of London. Yes. For
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: a couple of years.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 6: Yeah. The monastery, it's called Bhakti.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 4: Got it.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: Now I see what you mean.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 6: It's called Bhakti Vedanta Manor. It was actually gifted to
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 6: the Hare Krishna faith by George Harrison. Got interested in
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 6: the group.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: And then bought them a monastery to live in.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 6: Bought them this huge sprawling mansion and this huge estate.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 4: Wow. Okay.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 6: And kind of gifted it over to the church.
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: So- Yeah.
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: So there was that.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: There was that.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 6: I'm trying to think what else.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: And then when the celebrity stuff came about, like he
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: married J-Lo and Ben, right?
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 6: He officiated their wedding. Yeah.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: And that's when I first started to hear about him
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: was like when people were like, oh, Jay Shetty. Jay
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: Shetty does so great. And starting seeing him at like,
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: you know, being guests on podcasts.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, yeah.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: Whatever. I didn't really know much either until this article.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, I was fascinated.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 6: Yeah. He was heavily pushed by Facebook. When Facebook was
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 6: trying to make itself a competitor to YouTube, it was
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 6: paying people to create original content. And they would literally
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 6: bring Jay on stage for industry events, for people who
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 6: work in the media industry, who work in advertising, who
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 6: work in publishing, and also for other creators and be like,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 6: Look at Jay Shetty. He's earning millions of dollars on
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 6: the platform. You could be like him if you worked
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 6: with us. There were live events where they brought him
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 6: on stage and kind of used him as the shining
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 6: example of what can be done on Facebook. He was
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 6: promoted by them. He was promoted by members of his
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 6: own religious community. So Jay was the head of the
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 6: youth group within the Hare Krishna faith.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: When he was how old?
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 6: I think when he was like 18.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 4: Oh, okay.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 6: But he had incredible stature within there. And so what
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 6: other people who talked to me anonymously for this article
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 6: told me is that when Jay decided he wanted to,
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 6: you know, become a public persona and pursue this career
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 6: as a media figure, he would have members of the
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 6: youth group and just members of the religious organization just
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 6: spamming people nonstop with his content. And that kind of
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 6: initially kick-started his Rise to social media fame. And then
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 6: I found out a lot about the religious organization itself,
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 6: which has, you know, I imagine you grew up in L.A.? Yes.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 6: So you remember the Hare Krishnas?
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like I used to see them.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: Why did they go away in their orange outfits?
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 6: Los Angeles made it illegal for them to panhandle at LAX.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 6: They're not allowed. There's an ordinance that- You.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: Know, like in the movie Airplane?
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: They're featured in the movie Airplane.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 4: Totally.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 6: Younger viewers will probably have no idea what we're talking about.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: And so once they couldn't panhandle, they just left LA?
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 6: No, they're still here. So the story of the Hare
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 6: Krishna faith was in the late 60s, this old Indian
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 6: man named Prabhupada wanted to bring this faith to the
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 6: United States. Now, I want to be clear. I've talked
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 6: to a lot of people from this faith, good, decent people.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 6: who feel as though Jay and other people in it
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 6: have kind of sold out their religious traditions, which are
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 6: as legitimate as any other religion. They go back thousands
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 6: of years, and they feel like Jay has kind of
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 6: sold out their religious traditions for material gain. So I'm
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 6: not against this group in general, but they do have
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 6: a very controversial past.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: Which is what?
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 6: Well, so this guy comes. He converts all these hippies
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 6: in the late 60s. In the 70s and 80s, they
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 6: build communes all across the United States.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 1: Shave the head, wear the orange outfit.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 6: Shave the head, except for a small ponytail on the
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 6: back of the head, which is to protect a certain
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 6: demon from sucking the soul out of the back of
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 6: your head.
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 6: So have you ever seen Pulp Fiction?
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 6: You know how Ving Rhames' character has a Band-Aid on
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 6: the back of his head?
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 4: Oh, right.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 6: The implication is that, you know, from this kind of
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 6: ancient Hindu idea that someone has sucked his soul out
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 6: and that's what's in the briefcase.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 6: So that's why he needs to get the briefcase back
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 6: so bad.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 6: A fun little Hollywood moment.
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 6: So Prabhupada dies. He was an old Indian man. He
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 6: passes away just from old age. And it creates this
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 6: kind of power vacuum within this organization that had grown
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 6: to tens of thousands of members across the U.S., And again,
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 6: these are all just white people who became enthralled with
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 6: this man who was, you know, by every indication, walk
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 6: the walk, right? And he was a legitimate holy man.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 6: He took this ancient Hindu religion, introduced it to these people,
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 6: converted them. And these people, I mean, they're hardcore. No caffeine,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 6: no meat, no sex outside of marriage for the specific
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 6: purpose of procreation. I mean, it's a very orthodox religion.
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 6: You know, they slept on floors in these communes. They
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 6: would wake up at 5.30 every day and sing and
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 6: dance and chant for two hours straight. I mean, that
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 6: was their big thing, right? They would be in public
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 6: chanting the Hare Krishna mantra. So he dies. It creates
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 6: this power vacuum. And then things got really dicey. So
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 6: especially in the commune in West Virginia, in the hills
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 6: of Appalachia, that was kind of their main one. And
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 6: that was going to be this new religious center. There were...
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 6: you know, child sexual abuse, corporal abuse of children within, uh,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 6: this faith, a lot of these kids. So these people
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 6: that had converted, they ended up having kids and these
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 6: kids are grown in faith. They're sent to boarding schools
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 6: in India where they're beaten by, yeah. As young as
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 6: five years old, in some cases, they're beaten by their
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 6: spiritual masters, you know, forced to have sex with them.
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 6: In some cases, uh, girls married off to men twice
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 6: their age. Um, And then on two occasions, there was
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 6: conspiracy to commit murder conducted by the church. So the
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 6: man who would become the leader of the West Virginia commune,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 6: a lot of people started questioning his authority because he
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 6: was kind of a little emotionally and mentally unstable. And
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 6: he ordered an assassination on two people. two other devotees
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 6: within the faith who had been speaking out against him.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 6: One in West Virginia and then one here in Los
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 6: Angeles on Venice Boulevard in Culver City, like a mile
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 6: and a half from where I live.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: And what year was this?
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 6: This was in the 80s.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 3: Oh, wow.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 6: So there's a great Peacock documentary about it.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 6: Yeah, if you just Google Peacock Hare Krishna, it's called
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 6: like Guru's Murder something.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: So Jay, but Jay just takes this as like, think
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: like I'm on everyone and he's on Ellen DeGeneres and
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: everyone's just like kind of loving that he's just taking
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: the best parts of this and you're able to incorporate
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: it in your everyday life.
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 6: But he never identified that this is the specific religious
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 6: organization that he came from. Jay would always just describe
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 6: himself in these very kind of vague generic terms like, oh,
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 6: I'm a Hindu monk. There are literally thousands of different traditions.
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 6: within Hinduism. I mean, it's, you know, there are different
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 6: denominations within Christianity, but not that many. A lot of
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 6: people would say even Hinduism is kind of a misnomer
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 6: because these, all these different traditions are so different from
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 6: one another. Hinduism is this incredibly broad kind of overarching term.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 6: He never said he was from, you know, he grew
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 6: up in, again, did not have the spiritual epiphany at 18.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 6: I mean, maybe he did have a spiritual epiphany when
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 6: he was 18, but he always leaves out the part
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 6: that he had been going to these events since he
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 6: was 14.
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: Is there anything in you finding what made him think
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: to change his origin story? Because it's actually pretty brilliant
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: until you get caught by a journalist. So like, you know,
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 1: because I feel like the biggest thing that's going on
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: right now is you know, there's such a backlash against
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 1: the Nepo baby, which has existed forever. Sure. And in
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 1: every industry, quite honestly, honestly, but like, so then you'd
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 1: find the Nepo babies now will try to say, I
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: had to audition and my dad didn't know I was
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: auditioning and I had to take the train and whatever.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: And it's like a flex of like, I was poor.
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: And I've joked about that a lot. Like just fucking
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 1: who doesn't matter? Like it doesn't, you know, So do
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: you think, like, was there anything you found that maybe
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: he got the idea of why not to tell his
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: story and why his story wasn't going to be compelling
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 1: enough to pop?
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 6: Only Jay can answer that question. And I look forward
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 6: to hearing his answer, which he has not addressed this
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 6: article publicly. In fact, I think as we're recording this,
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure he's giving a talk at South by Southwest,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 6: like literally right now.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 6: And it'll be very interesting to see if he addresses
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 6: this because it's been- Nearly two weeks now.
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: And so in wrapping up, like, is there anything else
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: that we want to share besides everyone going to read
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: this article for themselves and stuff? But like, what do
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: you think is going to happen now?
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 6: That's a good question. Jay's attorneys have been in touch
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 6: with me and The Guardian. Can't really elaborate much more
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 6: than that. But suffice to say, I stand by my reporting.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 6: I think it's pretty rich with documentary evidence of everything
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 6: we found. We found Jay's old personal blog where he
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 6: writes about his time in India and he says that
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 6: he was there for only four months before he moved
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 6: back to London.
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: So then that was the truth. The blog thing says
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: four months, but other things say how long? Three years, right?
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 6: He said he had moved there and was there for
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 6: three years, but he'd taken trips back. It now appears
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 6: that From the evidence we gathered, it would appear that
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 6: the opposite was true, that he was in Watford for
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 6: the majority of time and took a trip to India.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: Well, the only interview that I listened to because I
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: was into Jada Pinkett Smith and her book and that
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: whole thing. And, you know, I always found her to
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: just be completely self-absorbed, narcissistic, her red table talk all
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: about it and just so just pompous and know-it-all-y. So
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: then she writes the book, you know, and I read
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: the book. And so I'm like, oh, let me listen
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: to this interview. And they are just kissing each other's ass.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: And they've been friends. And he's been on the Red
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 1: Table Talk. And, you know, just how close they are
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: to him. But in listening, and I'm listening to this.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 1: And I was like, wait, is this guy a therapist?
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: What is this? Oh, he's a spiritual advisor or whatever.
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 6: What does that mean?
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 1: But he's never, he, in it, He never makes her
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: take accountability for anything. He was completely on her side
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: of her narrative about anything. Everything that she said was,
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: you know, and she was mad at Will when, you know,
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: Will wanted to throw her a birthday party and as
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 1: everyone should be because then the birthday party would be
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: about Will throwing it and not her. And I'm like,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: how are you not just in a nice way being like, okay,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: but can't you see the other side?
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 4: Nothing.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: And that's when I was like, who is this guy?
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: But I have listened to therapists be on personalities, radio shows,
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 1: and they just want to be invited back. And they, so,
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, and I believe there's therapists behind closed doors
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: that tell the Hollywood person what they want to hear
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 1: because they're paying $ 500 out of pocket and they don't
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: want to lose that client. I mean, you're not diagnosing
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: cancer and then saying you don't have cancer. You know,
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: that would, so it's like, it's a very gray line
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: of like, are you really doing your job or not?
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: Because you're not going to tell this person that they're,
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: you know, behaving poorly.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 6: And there's, I have two responses to that. One is
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 6: that Jay is very good at making people feel good
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 6: about themselves, both ordinary everyday followers, people who know him
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 6: through social media and big high profile celebrities. You know,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 6: he's very, and you picked up on that. But also
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 6: with regards to Red Table Talk and all these people who,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 6: lentiate their platform. This is what happens when celebrities and
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 6: influencers replace real journalists as kind of arbiters of information
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 6: in our public discourse. And if there's any reason I
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 6: pursued this so aggressively, it is because of that. We're
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 6: living through this misinformation age. It's only going to get
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 6: worse with AI and this just tsunami of misinformation that's
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 6: bound to come with us. So You know, if anybody
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 6: takes away anything, it's just to be more thoughtful about
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 6: where you get your information from.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I love that. Thank you so much. Tell
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: everybody where they can follow you.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 6: Yeah. On Twitter, I'm just at McDermott, just my last name.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 6: And then on Instagram, I'm Johnny McD, J-O-H-D. N-N-Y underscore
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 6: underscore MCD. It's long.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So now I would like to do a prediction
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 1: of what I think will happen.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 6: Okay. You can predict whatever you want. I will abstain.
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: Well, you're going to be just fine in life and
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 1: continue to rock it. And I don't know what your
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: goals are, but like maybe get into the documentary world, whatever.
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: With him, I think it won't really like, Nothing will
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: really change for a minute, but it will be a
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: different popularity or lack thereof by spring of 25. It's
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: going to take a minute, and people are not going
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: to want to open their eyes to it. But I
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: think some people will still stick around, but I don't
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: think he'll gain a lot of new people. Some people
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: won't leave. They'll still listen to his show. He's so
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 1: big that it will be okay. It's not going to
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: like completely go away. But it's just– because I've seen
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: this happen with other mommy type people. And everyone loves
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: them and then they reveal it. Like I can't remember
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: the woman's name right now. But the one that did
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 1: the video and she just got her eyebrows done and
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 1: she's like got pissed at some comment and was like.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 6: Rachel Hollis?
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, Rachel Hollis.
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 6: Yeah, she definitely– She's still around. Traffics in similar circles
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 6: as Jay.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 4: Exactly.
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: And she was someone that had, again, very similar to
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: the story, didn't really have any real credentials to it,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: was a privileged white girl that got a job at
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: like Disney or whatever, met her husband.
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 6: Yeah, her husband was a hotshot Disney executive.
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: They got divorced and he has since left the earth.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: He was sick with something, I think. Or did he
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: in his life?
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 6: I thought he had a pretty serious addiction problem. It
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 6: was addiction.
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: It was addiction.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 6: Which again, you know, they put on this face of
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 6: having this.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: Of health. And they had a whole thing of how
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: to make your marriage work. And then they got divorced.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 6: But not to demonize what happened. He was battling demons.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 6: Just like everybody else does.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: That's fine.
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 1: But when she did that video of– yeah, I'm not regular.
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 1: Of course I'm not regular. I do this and this.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 6: Didn't she compare herself to Harriet Tubman or something? Yeah, yes.
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: She said Harriet Tubman. And it was like– and I
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 1: believe she still has a podcast. I'm sure she's still
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: making money. But before that video, she was doing the tours,
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: the three-day Tony Robbins type of event for thousands of
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: dollars and thousands of people and merch. And she had–
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: like a huge staff and she and her husband, dah, dah, dah.
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: And then that happened. They got divorced. And, and like
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: I said, I think she's still doing her thing to
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: an extent, but it'll never be what it was. And
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what I predict this to be.
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 6: Well, we'll see, you know, I'm continuing to report on this.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 6: There was a lot of information that I'm sure came
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 6: your way.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 4: Totally.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 6: That didn't make it into the article. before and a
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 6: lot of information that I've received since.
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: So do you think you'll do a follow-up article?
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think I will.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: Well, any more stuff you want to come or when
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: it comes out, let's have you back.
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I'd love that.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: And discuss that.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 4: This is great.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: And that'll be great. So thank you so much.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 6: Thank you.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, you guys. Remember, you go to heathermcdonald.net
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: for all my cute merch, all my dates. I'll be
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: at Palm Beach this weekend, like I said, on Friday
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: and Saturday. Everything is there and you also can join
• 1:42:32
  Speaker 1: my Patreon there, heathermcdonald.net. Only go to heathermcdonald.net for all
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 1: of my tickets. Okay, thank you.
• 1:42:39
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