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Write a Book in Three Months with Betsey Kulakowski · WriterCon

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This week on the writer Con podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: But really it's write the book you want to read.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
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  Speaker 1: share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Your
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  Speaker 1: hosts are William Bernhardt, bestselling novelist and author of the
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  Speaker 1: Red Sneaker books on writing, and Laura Bernhardt, Award winning
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  Speaker 1: author of the Want lnd Files book series.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you, Jesse Ulrich, Hey, they're writers. Thanks for joining
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: us today. As always, I suppose the world is a
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: total good news, bad news situation good news. Last week,
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  Speaker 3: Rebecca Yarris's new book on extorin Storm, third in her
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  Speaker 3: new series, was released and sold two point seven million
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: copies in one week, saleslest numbers like book publishers have
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  Speaker 3: not seen in twenty years. Of course, that money is
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  Speaker 3: not going into my pocket. But still, I think she's
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: put getting a lot of people into the bookstores or
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  Speaker 3: the Target. Maybe, did you, Laur, did you know our
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Katie got up in the middle of the night so
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: she could drive out to Target and get the special
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: fancy edition of Onyx Storm.
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: Nope, I had no idea. But I suppose it doesn't
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  Speaker 4: surprise me.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, okay, And then Jesse for you will move
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: to the bad news because you're a resident science fiction expert,
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: and I, even though we haven't even discussed, I bet
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: you are aware of the new developments regarding Neil Gaiman,
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: which you actually mentioned on the last podcast when we
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: were talking about Cormac McCarthy, Which is why this isn't
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  Speaker 3: going to be a news story in the news section,
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: because I just can't bear to do that kind of
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: story again. Was that your suggestion, Jesse, that we should
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: have a regular feature.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Called, yeah, the Authors acting badly?
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: Yes, behaving bad.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Authors acting awful, So you.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Know, breaking bad writers stuff. We can make a thing here.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah authors awfully short version.
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  Speaker 3: Possibly one of the most beloved authors working today, Neil
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  Speaker 3: Gaiman is now involved in the scanned all as a
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: result of a story broken by Vulture and published in
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  Speaker 3: New Yorker, which allegedly involved some non consensual bad s,
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  Speaker 3: m sex and the phrase call me Master, which is
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  Speaker 3: why that's the title of the story. To be fair,
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  Speaker 3: mister Gamon has denied all this. But here's the question, Jesse,
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  Speaker 3: can I mean, can we I don't even know how
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  Speaker 3: to you know, I remember the Graveyard Book, which I
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  Speaker 3: think maybe his bet well for that matter, I read
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  Speaker 3: What's the one that was the movie with Clara Danes
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  Speaker 3: and Dusty Yeah, I read that one to Alice when
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  Speaker 3: she was young, and then I read The Graveyard Book
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  Speaker 3: to Ralph when he was Now. I'm afraid I'm going
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  Speaker 3: to get arrested or something, because can we go on
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  Speaker 3: reading this guy's books in good conscience?
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  Speaker 1: So I can't remember the guy's name, but someone who
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  Speaker 1: I've enjoyed on NPR's Pop Culture podcast had a whole
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  Speaker 1: article about this, which is where he drew the line
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  Speaker 1: on things like this, like what do you do with
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  Speaker 1: JK Rowling? What do you do with Neil Gaiman? And
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  Speaker 1: it's one of those things where their terrible deeds do
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  Speaker 1: not get to take away the feelings their art created
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: for you at the time you first read it. So
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: if you already own that book, you can revisit and
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: enjoy it all you want. So the goal at this
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: point is to not give them any more money, right,
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  Speaker 1: and so enjoy what you enjoy, what you already own
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  Speaker 1: and have, and you know, in that case, separate the
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  Speaker 1: art from the arts, but try not to give those
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  Speaker 1: artists any more money. And for listeners slash viewers, of
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  Speaker 1: the show. I read that New Yorker piece and like
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: the amount of content warnings they had to give you
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: before you started reading it were plentiful, and they were
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: one percent right. It is a incredibly unpleasant story. But
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: I was like, I have to read this because Bill's
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: gonna ask me about it.
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  Speaker 3: But I read it too, and got me halfway through
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  Speaker 3: and I just couldn't stand it.
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  Speaker 1: It was I did. I did have to take a
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  Speaker 1: break in the middle. But it's yeah, I mean it's.
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  Speaker 4: Bad, and go ahead and avoid the Yeah, I think
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  Speaker 4: that's I'm glad you guys did the research on it,
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  Speaker 4: and I wrote Shadow of the Taj, which has some
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  Speaker 4: really tough issues in it.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's a novel, honey.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, well, yeah, weighted in it's rooted in fact.
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  Speaker 3: Is this your way of saying that one of those
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  Speaker 3: characters is a thinly veiled me.
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  Speaker 4: Oh gosh, no, I didn't even know you when I
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  Speaker 4: read it. No, this is no, no, no, much better
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  Speaker 4: the social issues that plague women around the world. That's
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  Speaker 4: rooted in fact.
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  Speaker 1: I mean that that article did almost take me down
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  Speaker 1: my second favorite rabbit hole, which is just reading crazy
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  Speaker 1: stories about scientology. Because I didn't know he was a scientologist.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: And actually I'm very lucky in the sense that I've
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: never actually read or watched other than one Doctor Who episode.
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  Speaker 1: I've not actually read or watched any Neil game and things.
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  Speaker 1: He's always just been around.
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  Speaker 3: How can that be?
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  Speaker 1: I just somehow I just wasn't I never had the
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  Speaker 1: time or whatever, And so feel I feel weirdly proud
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  Speaker 1: about that now. But but now I can't enjoy any
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  Speaker 1: of it.
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  Speaker 3: So hm right. Our guest today is Betsy Kulikowski, who
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  Speaker 3: is the author of, among other things, the Veritas Codex
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: series of paranormal thrillers I guess Bigfoot in UFOs, and
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: they are so much fun to read. She's been on
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: the podcast before, and she's such a trooper. She's back
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: again today. I'm looking forward to talking to Betsy.
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  Speaker 5: But first, the news.
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  Speaker 3: News story number one TikTok is still available, which you
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  Speaker 3: probably already aware, at least for now. And this concerns
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  Speaker 3: us not because I love watching Judy Dench dance or
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: anything like that, but because book talk has become such
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  Speaker 3: a huge force something like now, this is a real
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  Speaker 3: statistic one in twelve print books sold last year sold
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  Speaker 3: because of book Talk. I mean, think about that. That's huge. Anyway,
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  Speaker 3: you guys probably know what I'm talking about. As soon
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: as our new president, Donald Trump took office, he issued
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: an executive order giving TikTok a seventy five day extension
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  Speaker 3: on the congressionally passed law, which gave them a deadline.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: Nobody's really sure if he has the power to alter
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: legislation that's already passed. But whatever, TikTok is still functioning,
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: and various groups are scrambling to buy it, like Elon
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: Musk of course, to combine with X in some way,
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: I guess, and the one I'm rooting for, mister Beast,
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: he's putting together a group to buy it. It is
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: said that, I mean, the underlying issues are clear. About
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty million Americans are now using this app,
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: which is controlled by a Chinese company, and any Chinese
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  Speaker 3: company is theoretically, at least in principle, subject to the
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  Speaker 3: authority of the Chinese Communist Party, and their general attitude
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  Speaker 3: tends to be do what you're told and give us
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  Speaker 3: what you give us what we want. But one in
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  Speaker 3: every twelve books sold, Laura, can anything really replace book Talk?
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  Speaker 4: Well, I think a few years ago we couldn't you
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  Speaker 4: predicted book talk, so sure something new could come along.
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  Speaker 4: I think, look how quickly it grew in popularity.
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  Speaker 3: But Jesse, you've got an app, don't you. Maybe this
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  Speaker 3: is an opening for us. Yeah, there we go. We
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  Speaker 3: can actually use the name book talk because nobody else
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  Speaker 3: is gonna you know. Oh, then it's okay, yeah, book talk,
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  Speaker 3: book talk.
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  Speaker 1: I think we should just like use the idea of
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  Speaker 1: book talk and move it over to red note. The
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  Speaker 1: new app Jaxi is worse for privacy than TikTok is,
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  Speaker 1: but apparently and like it will introduce us to a
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  Speaker 1: whole new, very large Chinese audience. So I think that's
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  Speaker 1: the way to go. So booknote can called booknote.
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  Speaker 3: I could live with one hundred and fifty million more
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  Speaker 3: readers no matter what country they're in.
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  Speaker 1: You think, So why should we deny? The Chinese people
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  Speaker 1: are great literature. So sorry, okay, yeah, So that's.
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  Speaker 3: My news story number two, which is also good news.
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  Speaker 3: Sirkana BookScan has released their preliminary at least in book
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  Speaker 3: and brief forms sales analysis for twenty twenty four, and
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  Speaker 3: a lot of it is good, they say in their notes,
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  Speaker 3: And here I'm quoting that twenty twenty four quote marked
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  Speaker 3: a return to growth for the book market following two
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  Speaker 3: years of consecutive declines. And that's good news. I mean, granted,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: if you actually look at the charts and whatnot, print
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  Speaker 3: unit sales went up by about one percent, but one
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  Speaker 3: percent is one percent. It's better than going down. And
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  Speaker 3: here's the surprising part. Adult fiction was the strongest segment
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  Speaker 3: of the book market in twenty twenty four, book talk
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  Speaker 3: still being very important, book talk author sales grew nearly
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  Speaker 3: twenty percent as opposed to twenty twenty three. That's the
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  Speaker 3: fifth year of growth for that. And also some nonfiction,
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  Speaker 3: particularly religious nonfiction and bibles gift journals did very well.
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  Speaker 3: The losers this time are young adult and children's books,
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  Speaker 3: which makes me wonder are they considering Rebecca Yarros's titles
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  Speaker 3: adult fiction now, because otherwise how could hya fiction be
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  Speaker 3: going down? How old are the characters in that book, Laura?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, I read the first one too, but I
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  Speaker 3: don't remember they're older than seventeen.
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  Speaker 4: Though, right, yes, I think so. I mean they're old
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  Speaker 4: enough to be consenting adults. And she's a little younger,
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  Speaker 4: but still she's basically going off to college.
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  Speaker 3: So and most of the audience is really in their twenties, right,
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  Speaker 3: It's not it's not like kids.
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  Speaker 4: So it's it's spicy, I don't. I mean, I guess
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  Speaker 4: our kids can be reading a little bit heavier stuff
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: than what they did in the past, but I think.
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  Speaker 3: It's more adult. That's true probably in every field. Though.
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  Speaker 3: I remember when I was researching my Elliott ness book
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  Speaker 3: it's called Nemesis, and I'd read that the first adaptation
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: of his book The Untouchables for television was widely reviled
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: because it's so violent. And I watched a couple of those,
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, you'd let your two year old watch this? Now,
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  Speaker 3: there's nothing yeah about this, So Jesse, I think we
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: can safely say that twenty twenty five will not be
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the best year for Neil Gayman or Cormac McCarthy. Probably,
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: But are there some shining lights out there, some people
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  Speaker 3: you'd like to see get discovered.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Who get discovered? I was just INSI, well, again, I'm waiting.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I'm waiting until this trilogy finishes. But the two the
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: two writers who he name is James S. A. Corey,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: who wrote the Expanse book series and worked on the
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: TV show. Are working on a news sort of sci
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: fi trilogy. I think the first book came out last year,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: and I'm just waiting because I know they publish on time.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I'm waiting for them to finish it and then I
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: will read all of it. So I'm excited because, yeah,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: unlike every other fun sci fi fantasy person I read,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: they and other than Brandon Sanerson, they tell you when
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: they're going to publish it and work a schedule and
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: then release the thing, which is nice on time.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, cool.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: But you know who else I'm waiting for. I'm going
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: a weird reading slump at the moment because I finished
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: that huge Sanderson book and then finished another fantasy book
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: that I was waiting on, and now I'm just like,
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: what do I do with myself now? So I'm deep
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: dive into listen. I'm always up for a new Neil
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Stevenson novel. So if he's worked on something.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Really you read, you can finish those really, yeah, listen.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I love them and I argue with people all the
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: time about why I love them, and I'm I'm I'm
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: just his target audience. I don't mind spending forty pages
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: on a deep dive about Farrell hogs or weird time
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: travel things or the history of science.
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: Like Moby Dick has digressions, and yeah, that's a classic.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, And I've tried reading Moby Dick and
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: that does not go well for me. So can he
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: was being he was being paid by the word and
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: you can, and you one hundred percent feel that when
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: you read Moby Dick.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Oh well, here's the it needs a red letter. I'm
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: really digressing now, But you know how some Bibles have
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: like read ink for the words spoken by Jesus. There
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: needs to be a reading version of Moby Dick where
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: the actual story is in read ink what everybody loves
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: and then the other interjections which only English professors loves.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: Then you notice skip it right.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember. It took me like three times
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: to read The Count of Monte Cristo because there's a weird,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: tangent story right in the middle of it that has
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with the rest of the story until
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: much much later. And I was like, what is this?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Why do I care? Why am I ringing about this?
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, because like he had words, he had
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: a word limit. He had to get two.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: So did you finish it?
• 14:18
  Speaker 5: Did?
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: I did a great movie from France. I heard that.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: I need to watch that.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Okay. Today in craft Corner we have Amy m Lee,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: who you may remember was a guest on a previous podcast.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: She's the author of the Snow trilogy and she owns
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: quill Hawk, a company which is cists writers hoping to publish.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: Her topic today is perfect because it's something she knows
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: a lot about, and that's specifically the art of hustling
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: in a good way. Art of hustling. Take it away,
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Amy Craft Quarner.
• 15:00
  Speaker 6: Okay, so you've written a book, or you're about to
• 15:02
  Speaker 6: write a book, or you're in the middle of writing
• 15:04
  Speaker 6: a book and you need to have it read. The
• 15:06
  Speaker 6: best thing you can do is hustle. In the art
• 15:09
  Speaker 6: of hustling, there is an easy way to remember what
• 15:14
  Speaker 6: each of the letter stands for. So in h you
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: want to really hone in on your niche and your
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: audience and the brand that you're representing. Being unconventional, that's
• 15:23
  Speaker 6: the you in hustler, and that means being a trailblazer.
• 15:26
  Speaker 6: That means thinking outside of the box. Simplifying is the
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: s in hustler, and that means to be intentional and purposeful.
• 15:35
  Speaker 6: So you're not taking the shotgun approach. You're taking the
• 15:37
  Speaker 6: spaghetti approach, which means you're not just firing for the
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: sake of firing and hoping something sticks and lands. You
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: are actually being intentional. And you know how you cook spaghetting.
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: You throw it up against the wall and it sticks.
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: That's when you know you've got the right plan. The
• 15:55
  Speaker 6: other thing is timing. So being a hustler means you're
• 15:58
  Speaker 6: seizing the opportunities as it comes to you immediately, not oh,
• 16:02
  Speaker 6: I'll follow up with it later. No, you do it
• 16:04
  Speaker 6: right now, or you set a reminder on your phone
• 16:06
  Speaker 6: or whatever to say, okay, Amy, follow up on this
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: lead in the next twenty four hours, or set a
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: reminder for so. The other thing is being a hutler
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: involves learning. You're always going to be staying up to
• 16:21
  Speaker 6: date with the trends, always following up with technology, world news,
• 16:26
  Speaker 6: rules of engagement, and the really the best way to
• 16:28
  Speaker 6: do that is follow writer con go to the conferences,
• 16:31
  Speaker 6: go to the crews, the workshops, listen to the podcast.
• 16:34
  Speaker 6: You can learn so much and Bill and Laura they're
• 16:38
  Speaker 6: so good about staying up to date on what's happening
• 16:40
  Speaker 6: in the news in the writing community. So the L
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: I mean sorry, the E and ingate is engaging and
• 16:47
  Speaker 6: that means networking, socializing, collaborating, and community. So make sure
• 16:52
  Speaker 6: that you're always get putting yourself out there. It's hard,
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: I know, as most of us are introverts, but pick
• 16:58
  Speaker 6: something that you really enjoy and focus on that. I
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: love football, for example, and I'm always engaged with the
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: you know, the Seattle Seahawks community, and we're always doing
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: things to organize events, fundraisers, that that kind of thing.
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: So do what you're passionate about and get yourself out there.
• 17:15
  Speaker 6: And then are you know a hustler. A good hustler
• 17:19
  Speaker 6: has to recharge. You've got to have some batteries, some
• 17:22
  Speaker 6: gas in your tank to continue going. And so take
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: the time to relax, reflect and recharge. So that, in
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: a nutshell, is the art of hustling. And I hope
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: you go out there and hustle away, because if you
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: want to be read, you've got to do the job market, promote,
• 17:41
  Speaker 6: and hustle.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: So good luck, Thank you so much. Now let's talk
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: to Betsy Kulakowski. Betsy Kulakowski, Welcome to the podcast.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Welcome back. I should say. Obviously you've been on before,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: and I will just say you are a real trooper.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: You did not have a lot of notice and we
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: have being our guest today, so you already know what
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: the first question will be. You're just going to have
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: to think of a new answer for it. That's always
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: that you could offer writers one piece of advice. What
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: would it be?
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Wow, you know I have this question a lot, and
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I always have a different answer. But really it's write
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: the book you want to read. And you know, I
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: think it's important that we all write that book because
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I grew up with the books that I wanted to
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: read weren't out there. So my mother had always said,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: if you want to be a writer, write the books
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: you want to read. So that's what I do.
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: Great advice.
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: Very so.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: You are best known in the writing world for the
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: Veritas Codex, which now has seven books in books.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I'm currently working on eight and I've already got all
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: the way through eleven done.
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: Oh holy smokes, Okay, you just don't sleep or something.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing right, lots of caffeine, okay, really really fast.
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not the only thing is that it is caffeine.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: Is that the secret?
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the secret. Because I'm sitting here, I've got
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: my coffee cup, I've got my coke zero, and I
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: probably have a diet doctor Pepper sitting somewhere that I haven't.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: Finished several injections or actually all day.
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: Well, anyway, when did you first When did you first publish?
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: When did the first book?
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Well? I started writing when I was six because I
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: knew I wanted to be a writer. But the Veritas
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Codex came out in uh September of twenty twenty, in
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: the middle of the pandemic.
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: Oh of course. Yeah, okay that.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Was probably not a lot of bookstore appearances, No.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: Not for a couple of years. Did a lot of podcasts,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: but yeah, I'm getting into some bookstores now. I'm trying
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: to get I just recently moved, so I'm trying to
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: get into the local community here. Yeah.
• 20:02
  Speaker 4: I was gonna say, you've had kind of a big upheaval,
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: so I imagine your daily schedule is upheaved. But I
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: just used the same thing in anyway, if we could
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: go back and edit. But as soon as you as
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: soon as you get settled, this is gonna be a
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: good thing for you.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is.
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: You are going to be able to transition into writing
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: full time, aren't you.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Most of my full time we'll be writing. I don't
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: know if you can see in the background, but for
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: those of us who are watching on YouTube, my office
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: is a mess because I'm still unpacking. I don't really
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: know where to put stuff at the moment. But we
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: did move. My mother in law needed some help in Arkansas,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: and so my husband was committed to taking care of
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: his mom. So we picked up and moved. We're in
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: the process of selling the house in Oklahoma City, and
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: so I am working right now parily full time as
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: a writer. I do have a couple of side safety
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: gigs that I'm going to be doing. I'm going to
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: be teaching some classes online. So yeah, writing's going to
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: be going to be my career. And the first week
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: where I sat down and actually wrote, please don't hate me.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I wrote fifteen thousand words this week.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: Amazing. You're like, listen to dream now, Wow.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: The dream seven chapters of a new book done.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: That's fantastic.
• 21:26
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Okay, for the uninitiated, what's the Veratas Codex series about it?
• 21:32
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: The Veritak Codex follows the adventures of doctor Lauren Grayson
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: who is a biological anthropologist and she has a television
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: show on cable called The Veritas Codex where they go
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: on the search for the answers to the world's greatest mysteries.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: And in the first book, they're looking for Bigfoot in
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: the Pacific Northwest, and in the middle of the investigation,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: Lauren disappears and all the evidence points to the fact
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: that she was abducted by Bigfoot. When she comes back
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: ten days later, she's injured. She has no memory of
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: what happened to her. So was it Aliens? Was it Bigfoot?
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: And she can't remember m.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: So, and all of the books in the series have
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: something it's big Foot.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Another episode of the Showlender.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: It's did you watch In Search of with Leonard Nimoy
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: when you were a kid?
• 22:22
  Speaker 6: Oh?
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched all of those shows.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: Yes, I was totally convinced there were UFOs. Not so
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: much anymore, but that's probably because Leonard's not around to
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: convince me it's true.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: But his his replacement. I guess you would say has
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: taken over that show.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: So it's still the replacement.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: I did not know that, Zachary quinto.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Oh, how it really meant his replacement? Yes, not all
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: over the internet.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I know it should be. It's on the I think
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: it's on Discovery. Wow.
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: Okay, So the last book in this series was The
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Pirate's Quest, right, the.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Last book seven was actually The King's Ransom.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: The King's Ransom, but there was a pirate, right.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, The Pirate is my favorite one to write.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: Me out here, The King's Ransom. What happens in that one?
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: The King's Ransom is kind of a test of Rowan,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: who is Lauren's love interest, and it really puts him
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: to the test because dark forces are at play and
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: they they're using him to get to Lauren. And she
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: has challenges of her own. Her family has gone missing.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: She's the one still left behind trying to find everybody,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: and it really tests her metal and the powers that
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: she's been given by the universe, and she's able to,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: you know, she's got to go out and try to
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: find Rowan and save him. So this time the damsel
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: in distress is a.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Guy, a fantastic. Now, you said there were going to
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: be eleven books in these. When you've written that many,
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I can't believe that you would end on a prime number.
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: You're going to move forward, right, how many of these
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: do you see happening?
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: So I have the arc through book twelve, and I
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: had an idea come up for a possible book thirteen,
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: So I'll startle back to that when I have time.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: I can see ending with three. Yeah, because of course
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: that's Taylor Swift's favorite number. Right, also bad luck for
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: some peoplay right, right.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I did a book called The Lost Templar, which is
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: book five, and of course we know that the Friday
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the thirteenth myth comes from Templar history.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: They were didn't go I did.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: They were shut down by the Catholic Church and the
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: King of France because they had gotten too powerful, and
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: they were attacked on Friday the thirteenth back in the
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: thirteen hundreds, and so thirteen is an important number in
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: the series.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: Now it's starting to make sense. Yeah, okay, but this
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: is not the only thing you do have done or
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: will do.
• 25:03
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: You've also am I right, you've published some novellas.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a couple of novellas that are out
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: in a horror anthology that come out every year around Halloween,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: and it's it's meant to give back to the community
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: because the writers, we don't get paid for it. We
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: donate all the proceeds to provide to fight human trafficking.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: So that is the Autumn Tails series by Anatolian Press.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: So I've got a couple of anthologies in those m
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: good work. So when.
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: You are settled into your normal routine, like when things
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: aren't crazy for you.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what does your process look like?
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: What's a typical writing day for you? Right?
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: The typical writing day is a new definition because I've
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: really only had a couple of weeks to kind of
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: settle into this. Last week was very interesting because I
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: got up Monday morning at eight o'clock. I had an
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: idea that had hit me Sunday, spent all day kind
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: of ruminating and dreaming over thinking about it, sat down
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Monday morning and wrote the opening lines and didn't quit
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: until I had almost four thousand words written. And that
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: was about five o'clock that evening, and I stopped midday
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: and head lunch. I'm kind of hoping that's what a
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: normal writing day will look like once I really settle
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: into it. Yeah. I wrote almost completely that week last
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: week exactly in that schedule, so when I quit at
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: five o'clock on Friday, i'd made some real progress.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: Fantastic.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: I also always ask you know this, can you tell
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: us please if you are a planner or pancer.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: I think in one of the episodes you guys were
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: talking about some new terms for that an archaeologist or
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: an architect archaeologist being the pancer and the architect being
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: the planner, and I'm kind of a I'm a hybrid
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: of that. I consider myself an archaeologist with a dig plan.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I know what's out there, I know what I want
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: to end up with you. I've got the light our
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: scans to prove what's down there. I just got to
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: dig it up and make sure that's what it is.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: So I kind of start out with the plot in
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: my mind and where I want it to end. So
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: I kind of have a theme going through and I
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: kind of write to that ending. The Monks Grimoire was
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: one of those I wrote really fast. I wrote that
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: one in twenty three days when I was working full time.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: By the way, and the only thing that Yeah, the
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: only thing that kept me going on that one was
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: this plot that I had, or this theme that I
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: had in my head, that the devil had it coming,
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: and that's what I wrote to.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: But when you say you wrote it in twenty three days,
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: you mean the first draft? Yes, twenty three and done.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Oh no, there's always drafts and drafts and drafts.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Anything else you'd like to promote, Betsy, No.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Other than just I'm excited about writer Con coming up
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: in September. Looking forward to that. I'm making some new
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: friends here in Arkansas I'm hoping to bring along with me, so,
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: you know, building that community here.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: Well, I'll do a writer Con question and then we
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: can wrap it up.
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: So do you, Oh, did you still want me to
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: try to ask something more? I've done with it. I
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: don't know, so do you. I'm kind of fascinated with
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: what you're describing as your process because I think mine
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: actually might be the same.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: I do categorize myself as a planner because I will
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: definitely do the homework beforehand. I go through and I
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: think about my plot, my theme, my character, what the
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: growth is going to be, and I do a very
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: very rudimentary outline, but then I definitely discover things along
• 28:44
  Speaker 4: the way.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: So I guess, what.
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: Does your pre work look like? Do you do you outline?
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: Do you put things there you don't?
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Okay, I probably should, but I don't. I do this.
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: I have this, and everybody's so different. I have kind
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: of this, I think, probably unique to me, where I
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: have the idea, I just open up what I call
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: the ideas page and save that forever. I just start
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: spewing all of the thoughts and ideas that are churning
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: into something that I can go back and look at later,
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: and then I kind of work through it for myself,
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: and then I'll start my outline. And in a series,
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: I do have a Bible things that I need to
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: make sure that I go back and keep the same,
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: but I know things change every time. I'll go back
• 29:37
  Speaker 4: and look at my outline after I've finished the book,
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: and it amuses me how much it kind of developed
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: as I was working on it. Do you keep a
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: Veritas Codex Bible? Do you have something to make sure
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: that you or is it just so cemented in your
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: mind that you don't even need it.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have to say I don't have those
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: kind of records, and I kind of wish I did,
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: because there's times where I'm like, Okay, which college did
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I say he went to? Or what color was that
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: guy's eyes? I don't remember, and I have to go
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: back and try to look it up. Maybe I'm more
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: of a discovery writer because I'll write for a little
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: bit and then I'm like, Okay, I need to know
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: a fact about like Brazilian jiu jitsu, and so I'll
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: have to go and do some research because I don't
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: know anything about martial arts. And then i'll write. I'll
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: get that detail worked out, and I may come back
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: to that a couple of times before I'm really happy
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: with it. But then I'll write for a little while
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: and then I'll come up with, Okay, what's the entrance
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: fee to the Library of Congress. Can you go into
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: this part of the library and actually touch the stuff?
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: You know, what statues are in this corner? And then
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: I'll have to go and look that up. So I
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: kind of research as I go, And so a bit
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: of a discovery writer, I guess in that aspect.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: Hey, Betsy Kellen de writer com this year, Oh.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't miss it for the world, and I'm hoping
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: to bring some of my new friends with me. So
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I'm yeah, Arkansas friends here and hoping I can bring
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: some of them along for the ride.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Betsy, thanks for pitching in and helping out and being
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: on the podcast. We really appreciate it.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Oh you bet see you soon, Bike.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: Just a few parting words. You've heard me if you've
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: been listening to the podcast talking about the writer Con Cruise,
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: But come on, how can I not? It's coming up
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: and it's the next writer Con program. After that, we'll
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: have the retreat and we'll have the conference on Labor
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: Day weekend. You can go to the website and read
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: about all of it. But the cruise is at the
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: end of May. And if you're like us here in
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: Oklahoma where it's finally starting to get warm again, you're thinking,
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: how could I get really cold like I was last week?
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: And the answer is, come on the Alaska and writer
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: Con Cruise. We're gonna have a lot of fun being
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: to get over twenty hours of writing instruction, I mean
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: hands on reading your work, talking to you group, small, group,
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: one on ones, whatever you want, it will be us agents.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: We can find someone who can give you the help
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: you need to move your career to the next level.
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: All right, so check the website writercon dot com and
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: find out more about that. Until next time, keep writing
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: and remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: See you next time.