Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 343—340 GRE, depression. Teacher with sustainability passion. LBS vs CBS

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MBA Wire Taps 343—340 GRE, depression. Teacher with sustainability passion. LBS vs CBS · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:14
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your wiretaps for Monday, March 11, 2024. Are you looking for an MBA program where you'll be more than just a number? Vanderbilt Business offers a personalized learning experience to help each student reach their unique career goals. Whether you're looking to switch careers entirely or accelerate the path you're on, the Vanderbilt MBA program will provide you with the individual support you need to propel your career forward. Vanderbilt is currently waiving their $200 application fee for MBA wiretaps. Listeners to learn more about the Vanderbilt MBA program and to claim your application fee waiver, visit business vanderbilt.edu clearadmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things going this week?
• 0:59
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 1:00
  Speaker A: So the tension is palpable, like we're getting closer to round two decisions. Do you want to give us a rundown of what we can expect? I guess last week was Carnegie Mellon Tepper, but that was just. They were kind of very early on the calendar, but there's more to come.
• 1:17
  Speaker B: We hope they were last week. Right?
• 1:20
  Speaker A: We're recording in advance. Yeah.
• 1:22
  Speaker B: Before they were scheduled to come out, but, yeah, Tepper last week, and then this week, followed up by a cluster of schools in that sort of top 16 mix. We've got Darden, Duke, Tuck, Ross, Keenan Flagler. Oh, wow. Amongst the schools releasing decisions this week, there are a couple of schools actually releasing interview invites, too, for round three. FoUc was doing that. Cambridge is actually doing it for their round four. Well, no, they have a round four application deadline. But anyway, the point is, decision weeks is really kicking off, so we'll see a lot of activity, one would hope, on livewire next week. And best of luck to everyone that's waiting to hear from those programs.
• 2:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, we're thinking of you. If you're tuned in and waiting on word. I know it's hard, but hopefully the interviews are a good distraction, almost, because they kind of fall in the middle of the. After you've applied, there's sort of this radio silence. Then maybe you get an interview and you get focused on that and go through that process, and then there's not too long of a wait after that to get the final word. So we'll see. Yeah. Best of luck to everyone that's waiting. I don't have any events to talk about, Alex. We finally get a little bit of a break from events. I know, actually, though, that we're planning a whole bunch of really cool stuff for next season's applicants starting in May, we're going to have a lot of events, so stay tuned. There's even some mystery news there that I can't talk about yet, but there might be something very interesting that happens in May.
• 2:55
  Speaker B: That's terrible. Gray, we've got mystery news that we can't talk about.
• 3:00
  Speaker A: I can give a subtle hint. I guess we may be doing something in person, like a clear admit in person event. So just stay tuned. It's not a guarantee yet, so I don't want to make promises, but we're working on something very good. Could be fun. Other than that, over on the website, we had just a few things that I wanted to mention. One was we ran an admissions tip about background checks, and this is one of those things that people panic about as soon as everyone's going through the process. They're applying, they're getting into schools, and then they're told, well, there's going to be a background check, and they worry that, oh, gosh, will my offer be rescinded if there's some error in my file or I mistyped a date or whatever. So schools do conduct background checks, at least the very top schools certainly do. It varies from school to school as to how they do it, whether they do it for every single candidate or sort of spot checking. But we have a great admissions tip up on the site that you can read that gives you a lot of kind of detail on that stuff because it can be nerve wracking to go through that process.
• 4:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, we started that process at Wharton when I was.
• 4:10
  Speaker A: I remember. Yeah, that's right.
• 4:12
  Speaker B: You can blame it on us.
• 4:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. But I think it makes sense, especially in this era of, what is it, misinformation or people disinformation. Disinformation. Right. Something you've been studying as a side project, but, yeah, it is. We got to make sure people are who they say they are and have done what they. And I will say, just in case you're listening and now you're paranoid. The main thing is that if there's an error in your file, you don't automatically get rejected. You have a chance to explain, oh, yeah, it's just obvious it's a typo or this or that. Right. They're looking to spot people who are fraudulent in their file. Right. So fear not.
• 4:50
  Speaker B: It's more about intent. So if your intent was deceptive or to deceive, you will be found out.
• 4:57
  Speaker A: Exactly. So the other thing is that our real humans alumni series continues to roll on. We connected with three MBA grads over the last week or so, and we put these pieces up on the website and I'll just give you some highlights. We talked to George, who's a University of Rochester Simon school grad. He's working as a financial analyst over at Google, and he's originally from Kenya. And one of the questions we always ask is, why did you pick the school that you're attending? And so we asked him, why Rochester Simon? And he said, I chose the Simon business school primarily for the values and culture it upholds. And he goes on there, I'm not going to read the whole thing. But then he talks about how these values resonated strongly with him and gave him a sense of home away from home. But then he also talked about how the school's ranking and reputation as a rigorous and highly analytical program gave him confidence in its quality. He says, let's not forget, University of Rochester was the first school to have its entire MBA program designated as STEM. So I had forgotten about that. But that was kind of an interesting reminder that they're kind of pioneers and they have a very quantitatively oriented curriculum. So that's a positive, I guess, for.
• 6:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, that's. Their niche is being the first stem designated MBA program. So kudos to Rochester for going down that. Yeah, no, very good.
• 6:21
  Speaker A: And you can see, I mean, I would read that if you're interested in working at Google, there's some interesting, just advice and stuff in that piece because he's at Google now and enjoying that STEM designation because that allows him to work in the United States for at least three years as an international and then probably get sponsored or get an h one b or something. The next person we talked to was Drew, who graduated from McCombs in 22, and he's a consultant over at Bain. He hails from Bismarck, North Dakota, and he is ex military. He spent ten years as an officer in the army. And one of the things that was interesting in his kind of interview that we did with him is we said, what's one thing you would absolutely do again as part of the job search? And he said, I would emphasize the importance of leaning on your classmates instead of viewing them as competitors for roles or positions. I found immense value in sharing my networking progress strategies, case preparation, and both successes and failures with my closest classmates. He said. Our consulting recruitment class at McCombs was exceptionally successful, largely due to the support and encouragement we received from our classmates and second year students who pushed each other to excel. So I thought that was kind of nice to hear and yeah, just this idea that it's a community, you can lean on it. It's not a competitive thing.
• 7:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I think that's really good feedback as well as insight. I mean you are effectively competing for these jobs, but if you all work together, the aggregate outcome is going to be much better for everybody.
• 7:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then the last person we connected with is also working in tech. So his name is Ori, he's at Emory. Guisueta graduated also back in 22 and is an industry marketing manager for Microsoft. This candidate, actually he's from originally. Looks like he's from Georgia. Cartersville, Georgia. I've never been there, but in any said we kind of talked about what's one thing you would change or do differently as part of your job search. And he says try to network as much as possible. He said, I attended my MBA program during COVID and much of the natural networking that occurs was hampered a bit by Covid restrictions. But he said if there's an opportunity to attend a school event, a corporate presentation or a coffee chat, don't pass it up. And he also said that we always asked him, are you surprised by anything that your employer does in their recruiting process? And he said, I was very surprised at how open my current company is. That's Microsoft when it comes to interviewing candidates from various backgrounds, especially outside of technology. So he is a history major, if memory serves. And so he was kind of happy to see that Microsoft wasn't. They didn't seem bothered by that. So that was kind of interesting to read.
• 9:09
  Speaker B: No, that's very good.
• 9:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. So the only other thing I wanted to mention is that we did run a piece on our kind of Fridays from the front line column that we run, which always features kind of somebody reporting in from a school. In this case, we had some students from Michigan, Ross, sharing a kind of blow by blow report of the fourth annual Climate Cap conference, which is basically a global MBA summit on climate capital and business. And so they get was hosted at Ross, but there are students from all over, all the kind of top MBA programs attending, professors leading climate and business experts to discuss business implications of climate change. So very interesting article. Another piece that I thought was fascinating was just that that conference sold out in 3 hours. So I don't think that would have been the case a few years ago, but there's definitely been an increase, kind of rising interest. And obviously as we look around us and see changes to the planet, it's obviously there's an urgency. So it was just interesting to read that too.
• 10:11
  Speaker B: It's absolutely brilliant. It's interesting, this climate stuff. Obviously, I've been doing a deep dive into this stuff myself for an essay I'm writing on trust. And I was interviewing my brother in law, actually. I mean, this is a bit off topic, but I know we've got plenty of time on this episode. But I was interviewing my brother in law. His business is called Origin Coffee. And they are a really good sort of coffee roastery here, based in the UK, in Cornwall. And they win awards all around Europe for the quality of their. So they get their coffee beans from Colombia, or at least that's one of the places that they source. They're what they call a B Corp business. So they get audited in terms of how they supply and source stuff. So B Corp, I think it's a really good designation for that kind of stuff. But he told me that they're going to ship coffee beans from Colombia by sail.
• 11:16
  Speaker A: Oh, wow.
• 11:18
  Speaker B: Wind energy, but cargo boats using sail.
• 11:23
  Speaker A: Oh, okay. So there's some cargo ships. That is it.
• 11:26
  Speaker B: In addition, they're adapting themselves to sail. And he reckoned that the whole journey is going to take seven or eight days longer. They've costed it all out, this, that and the other, but they're really passionate about their climate footprint.
• 11:39
  Speaker A: Right.
• 11:40
  Speaker B: And yeah, he's pretty excited about that.
• 11:42
  Speaker A: So why aren't they just picking the coffee there in Cornwall locally?
• 11:47
  Speaker B: We don't grow coffee here in.
• 11:50
  Speaker A: Know, I know, I'm joking. It all comes from warmer environments.
• 11:55
  Speaker B: I think it needs to be a little different climate.
• 11:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, just a. Yeah, cool. Well, that's interesting. So in any event, other stuff, those are all the main things that I wanted to tackle before we talk about this week's candidates. Obviously, if you want to reach out to Alex and I, you can write to info@clearadmit.com use the subject line wiretaps. We got an email last week that was kind of interesting query from someone about whether or not to retake a test. We're always open to these, so just write to us if you have questions. Please also remember to rate, review and shout from the rooftops that you listen to this show. It always helps us, and particularly around this time of year, where we're looking to make sure that the next group of candidates coming through learn about this show because it is a useful tool, I think, in the admissions process. But other than that, Alex, are you ready to talk about this week's candidates?
• 12:43
  Speaker B: Let's kick on.
• 12:44
  Speaker A: All right, so this is wiretaps candidate number one. So our first candidate for this week doesn't really know yet where they're going to apply. They just indicated all schools. So they're kind of looking for a real high level review of their profile. Pre MBA. They've been working in oil and gas. They talk about other as a post MBA kind of career plan, at least in their initial post. We did ask them some more questions, but they haven't responded yet. So they just say other for post MBA, their GRE score is an incredible 340 and their GPA is a 2.67. So a very low GPA when it comes to kind of MBA applications. They have six years of work experience. They're located in Texas, they want to stay in the United States. And they do mention that they went to a kind of top 40 to 50 ranked public undergrad institution where they studied math with significant nuclear engineering coursework. They had a 40 GPA for the first three years and then depression hit and it sort of torpedoed their final year and lowered that overall GPA quite substantially, down to 2.67. So, Alex, I wanted to know what made you choose this candidate? Because we don't have a lot of details about their outside activities or their career plan. But clearly I'm assuming that what's drawing you to this is that they have this very low GPA and a very high gre, and maybe we can talk about that. But what's your take?
• 14:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think that this is an interesting case study in terms of two ends of the spectrum here. Right? You say that they have such a wonderful GRe. They do. But then they have such a diabolical Gpa and what does that mean? And, you know, they talk about the, the fact that they had depression or depression hit in that last year and it took them from a 4.0 down to 2.67. So that just seems like their final year completely crashed. Yeah, I'd assume, which is obviously very unfortunate. They're a math degree with significant nuclear engineering coursework. So obviously that last year too was highly, highly analytical in its focus and so forth. A couple of big points here. Obviously, we can't really discuss their goals and everything like that because as you say, they haven't really addressed them. But there needs to be a good reason why they're getting the MBA. Whether they're staying in oil and gas. I guess they're not. They're going to other and particularly what that is. But all that needs to be well developed and hopefully their work experience in oil and gas really allows them to show that they have had a good level of impact, a good level of growth, perhaps performed really well in challenging circumstance. Anything to overcome this issue of whatever the demons were that struck them down in their academic work. And even on top of that, I do think, and as you advise them on applywire, taking a little bit of coursework now just to further cement this idea that they are prepared for the rigors of the beginning of the MBA program would be very smart thing to do. So depression struck them down. So how are they able to articulate that this is something that they're able now to manage successfully and that they've effectively overcome it? Because certainly schools don't want to risk bringing what could be a really high performing candidate into their MBA program who may be triggered and suffered the same issues during their MBA. So they're going to have to really mitigate that issue.
• 17:02
  Speaker A: Yeah, that was my thought exactly. So as you said, the 340 on the GRE is. That's the best score that you can possibly get. It's a perfect score. So this person is clearly very bright. But like I was suggesting when I posted to them on the site, I was saying, gosh, take business fundamentals from GMAC or take some coursework to show that you really want to cement that kind of, that was then, this is now storyline, which is that, look, I got perfect grades in this coursework. I took. I got a perfect score in the GRE. That two, six, seven is six years ago, because I've been working for six years and it was really due, if you look at the transcript, to one year where I just was battling this depression, and as you say, I think, yeah, it'd be good to. I don't know, I'm thinking if I'm an admissions reader, if the essay that they probably need to use an optional essay to explain the GPA. But if the optional essay were to say I was overloaded in my final year and coursework was challenging and the pressure got to me and I was depressed and kind of failed all my classes, that would not be something that would give me a lot of confidence because the first year of the MBA program is incredibly intense and challenging. So I'm assuming that there were some external factors or something else maybe was going on. But as you say, be really good to demonstrate that it was a period in their life, it was handled and clearly their recommendations, all these other items in the file should support the notion that this person's been doing really well. And it's not an issue because you don't want the admissions reader to worry about that. But other than that, yeah, I think they need to figure out their goals. But oil and gas kind of an interesting sector. We do see a lot of candidates who, when they happen to be coming from that, they often are kind of interested in energy more writ large, and sometimes renewable energy are kind of shifting. So it sounds like there obviously could be a lot to like there. Just hard to know. But otherwise, this is an interesting case just for the sole reason of the low GPA and the depression and how you kind of handle that when you're navigating this process. So hopefully that helps them. I do want to thank them for posting and sharing this background. So. Yeah, very interesting.
• 19:19
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, very good.
• 19:20
  Speaker A: All right, let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate is looking to start school in the fall of 25. So a bit of an early bird again. And they have Berkeley and then a bunch of european schools. They have ESCP, HEC, ESA and INSEAD. It's like an acronym soup here. And in fact, all these schools are. So three of them are in France and one is in Spain. I guess INSEAD is also in Singapore and Abu Dhabi and stuff. But in any event, an interesting school selection. This person says they grew up in Chicago. They want to get into consulting or maybe entrepreneurship. They have the big three on their list, Bain, BCG and McKinsey, for that short term kind of goal. They had a 3.7 undergrad and have six years of work experience to date. They are currently located in Chicago and they want to land in Europe or the US after business school. Their degree was in education. And this person has basically just been working as a teacher in various school settings for the last five years in Chicago, Hawaii, and mean, a very unusual kind of career background. They have also done a little bit of kind of entrepreneurial stuff. They are passionate about environmental awareness with the students that they're teaching and very active. They've got a number of outside activities and as I said, a couple of small entrepreneurial ventures that they've been pursuing as well. So those are the numbers. Alex, what do you make of mean, we don't have a test score and I'm assuming this person will be taking the test at some point. But what do you make of their candidacy?
• 21:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, and I would argue probably because they're non traditional, I. E. Their career has been effectively as a teacher and they have an education degree. I would say, graham, that probably puts a bit more weight on the importance of taking the GMAT or GRE and not try to waive it. Right? Yeah, I would certainly encourage them. They're obviously smart. They got a three seven GPA, but make sure that they prepare very well for the test score, for the test and leave themselves enough room for a retake if necessary. So I think it'll be really important in their case. I quite like their profile and background and I certainly like their focus on climate, which is a big theme of their candidacy. Even as a teacher, they've created content that's sort of climate focused. They've written a children's book about the climate. They're working with a social enterprise in India doing some stuff. So they seem to be checking all the boxes of being a really good citizen, someone that really understands the importance of these particular issues and stuff. So I like that. But they got to come back with a strong test score, I think. And I'm just looking at their goals. They want to be a product manager at a climate tech firm. Well, obviously doing something at a climate tech firm or doing something in climate makes a lot of sense. Right. So that really should resonate well, because then they can thread it back to all their sort of experiences, what they've been doing as a teacher and some of the various other activities related.
• 23:03
  Speaker A: Right.
• 23:04
  Speaker B: I'm not sure that product manager is the right spot as the first position out of MBA.
• 23:11
  Speaker A: It sounds like they're willing to do consulting right out. I mean, it's a little unclear, but they had Bain, BCG and.
• 23:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I missed that first bit. Right. Climate consulting. So yeah, it makes perfect sense because that was going to be my suggestion anyway to focus on consulting and climate consulting. And I'm sure that's got to be a growing field, a growing area as businesses sort of go through not just digital transformation, but climate transformation. If there's such a term out there yet, I don't know, but I'm sure there will be. How do firms reorganize themselves better to mitigate their global footprint and various other things. So I really like that. I like that idea. And I like their goals. I like a lot. Again, we've talked about this before. This reminds me of the type of candidate that the admissions committee would root for if everything else was in place.
• 24:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think the nice thing about doing consulting after business school would be that it's a great way to kind of sort of make that move into the sort of business world from a teaching kind of background. But I do think, like you said, the onus, we talk about this a lot in the video series. We made for cleared MIT plus users. This idea that when you're nontraditional, you need to work hard to fit in a little bit as you're applying to business school. And when you're traditional, you need to work hard to stand out. So I think fitting in would come in the guise of like, oh, here's a great test score that shows that I can do the work. Or again, maybe taking business fundamentals or MBA math or one of these kind of online courses to get ready for business school because I'm guessing that the transcript with that degree in education may not have a lot of quantitative coursework on. Yeah, so doing some of those little things I think would help to show that this person means business. No pun intended. But I think the only other thing I wanted to ask you, Alex, before we kind of move on from this candidate is what do you make of the school selection? Because it's not. I mean, we rarely see someone with this sort know there's kind of the Berkeley on the list and then you've got a bunch of european schools and they want to go work know Bain, BCG or McKinsey. So I'm trying to figure it what's driving this list? Do you have any sense of that?
• 25:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, I have no idea.
• 25:33
  Speaker A: I think it's that they want to just, they're like, hey, I'll go to business school in Europe. And living in Barcelona or Paris sounds like a good know. So I'm kind of wondering if some of it's that because they talk about wanting to maybe settle in the EU after business school. So I am wondering how much of this is go. I could live in San Francisco or the Bay Area and I could live in Paris or like those are all attractive places to live. If I were counseling this person based on what they want to do. First of mean, insead might be a tough sell because of the fact that it's short duration and they would really need an internship in my view, which could mean having to start in the January. Incead does have. I think it's if you start in January, you can do a short internship, but if you're doing the September start, I think it's straight through. So I don't know, I'm a little skeptical of the school selection. I mean, these are all great schools. I think maybe they know something we don't about like climate consulting and maybe some of these schools are powerhouses in that domain. But I'm guessing more that it's like where they want to be for a year or two. So I would rethink that a little bit and just make sure that whatever school they're looking at, because I think about Yale as being a potentially great landing place for someone with these kind of career goals. And there's some other schools that come to mind too. But in any event. Yeah. I would encourage them to do their due diligence on this.
• 26:56
  Speaker B: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Well, I think you've sugarcoated it quite nicely because it seems a bit random to me.
• 27:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, a little bit.
• 27:05
  Speaker B: Nothing on the northeast here, which, I mean, I'm not surprised. Some people want to avoid the northeast, but that's where there's such a good concentration of top MBA programs.
• 27:17
  Speaker A: Yeah. So in any event, some food for thought, hopefully for this candidate. I do want to thank them for sharing their profile. Let's move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number three. So our third candidate, as we've been doing for the last several weeks, is a decision wire entry. So this person is starting school in the fall and they applied to Chicago, Booth, Columbia and London business school. And they ultimately were admitted to Columbia and lbs. And they originally posted saying they weren't sure where to go. And just in case you're curious, they had been working in. Well, actually they don't say where they were, what career. They want to get into consulting and they want to work at Bain, BCG or McKinsey, which is very common. Their GMAT was a 730 and their GPA 37. They're from China and they said they weren't really sure, where do I go, Columbia or LBS? And they posted that to the site and there was a lot of back and forth. You kind of weighed in. And they revealed in that process that they were already a Columbia alum and they had done a master in engineering, I guess, at Columbia. So they were kind of wondering what to do. And the big specific thing that I think was making this challenging for them is that they wanted to land in the Middle east after business school working for one of these consulting firms. And so they were wondering about LBS's kind of advantage, given that LBS has a campus in Dubai. And so they were just kind of struggling with that, like weighing those two schools. So, Alex, do you want to take us through what happened next? Because we kind of weighed in saying, oh gee, you already went to Columbia, maybe you don't want to double dip. LBS does have that great network in the Middle east. It could be pretty compelling. They said they were indifferent about London versus New York City in terms of where they would be for the next two years. And then what's happened since, though? Because I see they posted something.
• 29:09
  Speaker B: Yeah, they're going to Columbia.
• 29:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. Which is interesting.
• 29:11
  Speaker B: Right. But yeah, there's a couple of reasons why I find this quite interesting. One is you're comparing a european based program with a top us based program. And really because the candidate wants to go and work in another region of the world, not where they currently are or where they're from, but another region of the world, not the region in which either of these MBA programs you can make a case for why either program is actually a really good potential choice for them. Because we don't often get candidates debating like a european based program versus a us based because their geography effectively defines the programs that they target. Anyway, hopefully I've made a bit of sense there, but it matches LBS up directly with Columbia business school. Top business programs in major world, top cities around the world. And I'm obviously a big fan of LBS. I'm based in the UK. I would consider it the number one program in this country. And I think there's every good reason why LBS might have actually been a good choice for this candidate based on what you said. One, they've already got an engineering degree from Columbia, so it's on their cv and LBS has potentially more of a presence out in the Middle east market. So alumni connections and networks and so forth. But the pragmatic reality now is Columbia's come back and offered them a generous scholarship and that really makes it difficult for LBS to compete. So this candidate can go to New York with 100,000 sort of support. I think Columbia is a good choice for them.
• 31:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's the big news was that Columbia came in and said, oh, here's $100,000 scholarship. Because the delivery of the scholarship information was delayed. When this person first posted, they didn't know anything about the money. And it sounds like LBS didn't give them much. They didn't specify, but it obviously wasn't as much if there was. So I think that then tips the scales strongly over to CBS because these schools mean you could argue like you were saying, you know, a little bit ahead of mean. It's sort of one of the top schools in the. And. But it really depends on geography. And so I was seeing my way to an argument for, hey, they already went to Columbia. They have access to that network to some extent. LBS has this amazing campus in Dubai and a good footprint in the Middle east. And so, yeah, add a new network and some good kind of connectivity into the market. That you're trying to get into. But when you show up with $100,000, then that really changes the calculus, I think. So they're going to double dip, go back to Colombia, and I'm sure if they want to land in the Middle east, they'll land. Yeah. There are plenty of jobs out there, particularly in consulting and. Great. I'm really happy, though, that they kept us posted because it's rare to have someone post a decision, wire undecided and then come back and tell us what they ultimately did. So it's kind of interesting to see that. Yeah.
• 32:43
  Speaker B: A bit ironic that they came back after I'd selected their thing for our conversation today, so they hadn't come back by when I selected it.
• 32:53
  Speaker A: Oh, really? So you just picked it as kind of. Just an interesting dilemma to discuss? Oh, wow. Okay.
• 32:58
  Speaker B: I think I did. Anyway, it seems like such a long time ago when I picked it. It was only yesterday.
• 33:03
  Speaker A: Yeah. So, in any event, thanks for picking these out. I think some very interesting discussions today around GPA, depression, nontraditional backgrounds in teaching, and then obviously the double dip dilemma and just scholarship dollars and what role they play in all this. So great work as always. We'll do it again in one week's time. And. Yeah, Alex, thanks again.
• 33:25
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care.