Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Wealthy lawyer shoots wife dead, sells her lux clothes at consignment: CASE REVERSED

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Wealthy lawyer shoots wife dead, sells her lux clothes at consignment: CASE REVERSED · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. I remember it like it
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: was yesterday. The moment I said it was described in
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: the courtroom emotionless, high profile lawyer arrives at the hospital
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  Speaker 1: with his wife that he just shot from the backseat
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of their suv. She dies emotionless. That is how text
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: McIver was described. And immediately after shooting his wife dead,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: he was convicted and rightfully so. But in their whizdome
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: in the last hours, the Georgias Supreme Court has reversed
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: the conviction. I Meanancy Grace this Crime Stories. Thank you
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation in series
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  Speaker 1: X one eleven, where we still care about missing people,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: especially children, unsolved homicide and miscarriages of justice with me
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: and all star panel maxins of what we know right now.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: But first of all, take a listen to our friends
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  Speaker 1: at forty eight hours and eleven a lot. This was
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: a enormously high profile case. They were big time power coupled.
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  Speaker 1: Here you have the vice chair of the State Elections
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  Speaker 1: Board who's a prominent Atlanta lawyer. You have this strikingly beautiful,
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  Speaker 1: incredibly successful businesswoman. On the night of September twenty fifth,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, Tex McIver shot and killed his wife Diane.
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  Speaker 1: They'd been married for eleven years. I loved you before
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  Speaker 1: this ceremony, and I love you more because of it.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Is there any scenario where you can think that Tex
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: would have shot Diane intentionally? Never? Never? Once? De Tex
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  Speaker 1: absolutely adored dianam the Fulton County Medical Examiner is ruled
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  Speaker 1: sixty three year old Diane mcguiver died of a gunshot
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  Speaker 1: wound to the back and denied. A close friend of
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  Speaker 1: the couple told eleven Alive exclusively that two communities are grieving.
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  Speaker 1: The Cory Services Tower in downtown Atlanta is lit up
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  Speaker 1: with this memorial to the company's president, Diane mcguiver. She
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  Speaker 1: was shot inside a Ford expedition She rode in late
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  Speaker 1: Sunday with her husband, Tex, and a close family friend
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  Speaker 1: as they returned from their Putnam County branch. They were
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  Speaker 1: very very good carry well. One of those so called
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  Speaker 1: good citizens of Putnam County, that's Eton in Georgia, ended
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  Speaker 1: up behind bars for shooting his wife dead. One of
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: the things I remember the most Mike Pachinik is that
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: his story about how and why the gun misfired in
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  Speaker 1: the car let's see. First of all, he was asleep
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: and then he woke up because there was a bump
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  Speaker 1: in the road I think, and he pulled the trigger
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  Speaker 1: and whoops, it shot his wife dead. Then he claimed,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: oh yes, Then he claimed it was the black people's fault.
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  Speaker 1: Remember that that they were protesting and he pulled the trigger.
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  Speaker 1: That's right, blamed the black man again. Gosh, there was
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  Speaker 1: the sleeping, there was the so called protest. Seems like
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: there was another reason he shot his wife dead. Mike
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  Speaker 1: Pachennik is with me, former Lee with WSBTV Channel two,
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  Speaker 1: high profile reporter. Mike. I can't believe they have reversed
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  Speaker 1: this case. But let's talk about what happened at the
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: beginning before we get to another bad decision by the
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  Speaker 1: Georgia Supreme Court. Tell me what happened the night the
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Diane McIvor, gorgeous, brilliant, beautiful, worked her fingers to the
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  Speaker 1: bone to build up Carrie Limo and was bailing this husband,
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  Speaker 1: Texas McIvor, the high profile lawyer bailing him out. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: he was hemorrhaging money, all those designer clothes, a full
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  Speaker 1: on farm in Eatonton, Georgia when they lived and worked
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  Speaker 1: in Atlanta. He had been put on was he put
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  Speaker 1: on of council which means you're not bringing in enough money?
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  Speaker 1: And his fancy law firm. I mean she was bailing
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  Speaker 1: him out with buckets, and then when she died, he
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  Speaker 1: gets at all. Isn't that the way it went down, Mike, Well,
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  Speaker 1: that's certainly the way prosecutors portrayed their life. But Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: this all started or earlier in that day. They were
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  Speaker 1: at the ranch out there in Puddon County, making their
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  Speaker 1: way back to Atlanta. Their friend Danny Joe Carter was
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: at the wheel. Diane's in the front seat, Texas in
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  Speaker 1: the back, and as they made their way into downtown Atlanta,
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  Speaker 1: there was some traffic, so they got diverted, got off
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  Speaker 1: the highway, and that is when tex claims that he
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  Speaker 1: woke up, looked out the window and saw a group
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  Speaker 1: of homeless people and some Black Lives Matter of protesters
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  Speaker 1: gathering in this area off what's called the Downtown Codector
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  Speaker 1: Light in the hardest downtown Atlanta. I'm glad you corrected me, Mike.
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  Speaker 1: I forgot it was also the homeless people's fault. Go ahead,
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  Speaker 1: So they get off the highway and He looks around
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  Speaker 1: and says, girls, I don't think we should have gone
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  Speaker 1: this direction. Please hand me my gun. His gun is
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  Speaker 1: in the console. It's in a plastic public shopping bag.
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  Speaker 1: He puts it at his lap and then claims to
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: have fallen back asleep. They're driving through downtown into an
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  Speaker 1: area of Atlanta known as Midtown, just north of there,
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  Speaker 1: right on Piedmont Avenue, right next to Piedmont Park, of
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  Speaker 1: sprawling green space in the heart of Midtown Atlanta, where
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  Speaker 1: folks come to congregate for festivals, very popular with restaurants,
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  Speaker 1: highly populated, a lot of folks out milling about, and
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  Speaker 1: that's when he claims the guns in his lap. He
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  Speaker 1: gets jerked away by this bump in the road and
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  Speaker 1: the gun goes off. Okay, wait, wait, wait, you know,
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  Speaker 1: Mike pen You know I've been a big fan of
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Ears for a long time. Not the creepy kind that
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: stalks you and tries to look in your window, but
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: following your work is a better way to put it.
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  Speaker 1: But I love the way you just put that. The
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  Speaker 1: gun just went off. It's like a snake coiled up
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  Speaker 1: in the corner just strikes all on his own. Bs
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  Speaker 1: Pachenic he pulled a trigger, they got just go off.
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  Speaker 1: It didn't malfunction, The trigger was pulled, and he shot
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  Speaker 1: his wife dead. Isn't that true? Well, that was the
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: question was whether he get cocked the gun prior to that, because,
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  Speaker 1: as you know, if the gun isn't cocked, it takes
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  Speaker 1: a lot of pressure for someone to pull a trigger,
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  Speaker 1: and so if the gun were cocked, a hairpin would
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: set it up, right, So that was sort of the story.
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  Speaker 1: A hairpin, Yeah, hap, a hairpin? Yep? What hairpin? Now,
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  Speaker 1: I'm serious. A hairpin would have set it off. It
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  Speaker 1: was his finger, Is that the hairpin to which you
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  Speaker 1: are referring? Perhaps? Perhaps, But that was never established whether
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  Speaker 1: the trigger was actually pulled, I mean, whether the gun
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  Speaker 1: was caught. Okay, it was never established whether the gun
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  Speaker 1: was caught or not. Agree, But was it established it
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  Speaker 1: was his finger on the trigger. Right for the gun
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  Speaker 1: to have gone off the way he's asserting, it would
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  Speaker 1: have had to have been pulled back if it were
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  Speaker 1: that simple. Otherwise he would have had to apply good
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  Speaker 1: five pounds of pressure to pull the trigger, which would
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  Speaker 1: mean that he was intentionally pulling the trigger. Right. Caught
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  Speaker 1: or not caught? Do you disagree that he pulled the trigger.
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  Speaker 1: He had to have pulled the trigger if the gun
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  Speaker 1: went off, So the gun didn't just go off. He
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  Speaker 1: pulled the trigger. Question is whether he applied the pressure
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  Speaker 1: to pull the trigger if the gun we're not cocking.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: You know what, that's the first time I've laughed today.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Isn't that the first time I've laughed today? Okay? So,
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  Speaker 1: Daryld Cohen, I think Mike Pachenik, as famous as he
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  Speaker 1: has become throughout the South at WSBTV Channel two, he
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  Speaker 1: may have lost his calling because he would make one
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  Speaker 1: hbl of a defense attorney. Because I've never heard anybody,
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  Speaker 1: really other than you, be able to suggest that even
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: though he pulled the trigger, it was an accident. Will Nancy,
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  Speaker 1: You're going to hear it from me. How many times
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  Speaker 1: do we know that he practiced firing a weapon from
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  Speaker 1: the back seat through a front seat into a person
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  Speaker 1: before this? We don't how many How many times was
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: the trigger pulled once? How much do we know? Was
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: he drunk? Was he sleeping? I don't even think that matters.
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  Speaker 1: He said he was sleeping and woke up and that
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  Speaker 1: it was the black people and the homeless people that
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  Speaker 1: scared him, so he shot his wife. Now I don't
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  Speaker 1: even understand this. Everyone keeps talking about Midtown like it's
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: son nefarious. I lived there, it's not. I lived right there,
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  Speaker 1: about three blocks from where this went down for years
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  Speaker 1: and years and years and never had a problem. But
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  Speaker 1: somehow it's the neighborhood, it's the homeless people, it's the
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  Speaker 1: black man. It's all their fault because he pulled the trigger.
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  Speaker 1: And you and Patchennik can talk about how was it
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  Speaker 1: an accident that he pulled the trigger. He I could
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  Speaker 1: hold a gun up right now, I pointed at Jackie
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  Speaker 1: sitting here in the studio and pull it and go oh,
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  Speaker 1: that was an accident, isn't it true? Daryl Cohen, The law,
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  Speaker 1: the black and white letter of the law, presumes you
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  Speaker 1: intend the natural consequence of your I can't hold a
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  Speaker 1: gun up to her and pull the trigger and go oh,
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  Speaker 1: I just meant to scare her. I didn't mean to
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  Speaker 1: blow her face off. The law presumes you mean the
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  Speaker 1: natural consequence of your act. And if he's holding a
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  Speaker 1: gun with his finger on the trigger in the back
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  Speaker 1: seat and the barrel is pointed at her seat, what
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  Speaker 1: does the law presume Daryl, if there was no back seat,
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  Speaker 1: if he was pointing it directly at her and everything else.
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  Speaker 1: And by the way, Nancy, let's use a kiss method.
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  Speaker 1: Keep it short, stupid, keep it simple, stupid, This is
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  Speaker 1: simple in my view. We don't know what type of
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  Speaker 1: material was in the seat between Okay, you know what,
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  Speaker 1: Sometimes I forget. This is your job to make what
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  Speaker 1: is very clear very muddy. You know what, Mike Pachennik,
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  Speaker 1: I'm going to go out on a limb. I'm going
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  Speaker 1: to go back to you, and I want you to
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  Speaker 1: tell me about the juries of verdict and the nurses
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: who testified on one Friday morning in court how MacIvor
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: was completely emotionless at the hospital, and that Diane herself
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: said mc ivor had been holding a gun behind her back,
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  Speaker 1: and that she chose not to see her husband before
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  Speaker 1: she died. She was asked, do you want him to
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  Speaker 1: come in? She did not want him in the room
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  Speaker 1: with her. Mike, that's right. And everybody said that he
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  Speaker 1: was not acting like you would expect a grieving husband
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  Speaker 1: to act, you know, emotionless, perhaps in shock, but not
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  Speaker 1: certainly acting like somebody who had just shot their wife,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: whether it was accidental, or not, And you know, yes,
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  Speaker 1: she did not want to see him there in the
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  Speaker 1: ear Now, you could perhaps argue she didn't want him
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  Speaker 1: to see her in that condition, but you could also
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  Speaker 1: argue that she was mad at him for what had happened,
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  Speaker 1: and you know I didn't want to have him around
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: for that situation. Mike, are you married? Yes? I am? Okay,
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  Speaker 1: is there me too? And he better say the same thing, Mike,
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  Speaker 1: has your wife ever been in the hospital or been
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: really really sick? Unfortunately she has? Okay, Did she want
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: you to stay out of the room because she thought
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  Speaker 1: she didn't look good? Because my husband when Lucy and
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  Speaker 1: I almost died childbirth, my husband never left my side,
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  Speaker 1: not once, and I didn't care how I looked. I
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: wanted him to be there, even if it was the
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: bitter end. So I am not buying into she didn't
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: want him to see her like that. That's total b S.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Technical legal term crime stories with Nancy Grace. Earlier you
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: heard Darryl Cohen, and I'm about to introduce our whole panel.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: You're Darryl Cohen saying, well, this guy ever had target practice.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought that up as a defense Darryl Cohen,
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  Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons I like to follow
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: the Cardinal ruling. Court. Don't ask the question that you
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: don't already know the answer to. Take a Listen to
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  Speaker 1: our cut five. This is our friend at forty eight hours.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: But text was no stranger to guns, with a collection
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: of nearly forty including rifles and r fifteens. I'm done.
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  Speaker 1: The idea that text McIvers should have known better was
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: about to become a central theme in this case. But
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: it's what texted after the shooting that to some made
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: him seem more and more like a killer. It gets
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: really crazy. I think we've called it a textbook example
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: of what not to do after you kill your wife,
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  Speaker 1: and one of those things was to immediately sell his
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: highly successful wives beautiful clothes or purses, her belongings, her jewelry.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: He basically had a fire sell almost immediately after his
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: wife a shot dead by him. That's one of the
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: things take less an hour cut six, Our friends at
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: Fox five listened as prosecutors asked a judge to delay
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: any additional sales of missus mcgeiver's valuables if a defendant
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: is allowed access to the proceeds of either the benefits
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: of the will and or the benefits of the insurance policy,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: they can conceivably deplete all of those assets. And if
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: a disposition is then entered where mister mcgiver, for instance,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: was found guilty of murder or felony murder of voluntary
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: manslaughter under the slayer statute, all of those proceeds would
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: have to be returned to missus mc versus state, and
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: if he's not, all of those proceeds would then be
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: His attorney, William Hill, challenged whether it was even necessary
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: to hold this hearing text mcgiver, who says the sale
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: is intended to award four of Diane's friends with settlements
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: called for in the will. He says he would have
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: been willing to first place all the proceeds in probate court.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Now it is the probate court that Judge Constance Russell
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: says should have handled the matter altogether, and she says
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: to the prosecution that's where it should go. She denied
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the motion. Okay, let me understand this. Darryl Cohen, so
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: after he shoots his wife in the back, after she
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: says don't let him in the hospital room, just before
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: she dies, he has a fire cell of all of
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: her minks and her jewels, and her designers shoes and
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: handbags and clothes. Did I hear that correctly, Daryl Cohen?
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: I think you did, Nan, Yeah, I think I did too.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: What his actions were were incomprehensible. But here's a man
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: who was absolutely incomprehensible. His actions, his demeanor, all of
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense. It goes under It does make sense.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense. You know what I've got right
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: here in the studio with me. My dad's shirt he
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: wore all the time. His favorite shirt in my closet
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: was to see every morning, Keith, my fiance. That was baseball.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: He was on baseball scholarship. And sometimes they make me
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: sound and sometimes they give me strength. But somebody would
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: have to go through hell and high water to get
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: either one of those things away from me. And here
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: he's having a yard sale. Doctor Sherry Schwartz joining me,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: forensic psychologist specializing in crime and law where law and
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry, I don't find it difficult or
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: incomprehensible as day Cohen makes out. I find it very
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: simple and easy to understand. He killed his wife, and
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: he wants her money and none of her possessions. Nothing
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: that was dear to her means anything to him. He's
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: selling it all. He might as well just throw it
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: out on the sidewalk. Absolutely, and here's what we know.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Here's what grief research tells us. One of the biggest
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: challenges for widows in particular is to clean out the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: closets of their loved one. They want to hold on
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to the belongings because it makes them feel close to
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: the person they have guilt. They don't want to get
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: rid of the belongings because then it's almost like you're
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: staying out with the old in with the news. Knew,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: but text mc iver didn't seem to struggle with that.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: What exactly happened in that car the evening that Diane
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: was the murder was I'll just say shots. As they're
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: still arguing about the fact of the murder. Take a
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: listen to our cut three. This is Valerie half at
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: eleven Alive as police investigate how a gun went off
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: inside the vehicle. Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills is remembering
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: a close friend of many years. He says, the mcgivers
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: who divided their time between Buckhead and Eatonton were philanthropists
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: who were very involved in the community, often entertaining at
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: mcgiver ranch. Diane was a favacious, beautiful, entertaining a woman
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: who was a lot of fun to be around. Atlanta
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: police have not yet completed their investigation, though they say
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: they are fairly close. Sheriff Sills says Tex mcgiver, a
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: prominent Atlanta attorney, is distraught and grief stricken. So distraught,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: angry stricken, he has a yard. Sill now takes hour
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: cut for our friends from forty eight hours. Diana is
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: seated in the passenger seat. Texas seeded right behind his wife.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Not far from home. They hit traffic and exited the highway.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Tex says he woke up, saw homeless people and became worried.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: A spokesman would later say that techs asked for his
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: gun because he was afraid of carjackers and Black Lives
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Matter protesters. With that loaded gun now in his lap,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Tech says he fell back asleep in my lad right.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Gun expert Burt Davis can a third eight special just
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: accidentally go off. Never known it to happen. You have
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: to pull the trigger Timmity, Oh, what is your challenge
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: with this gun? Well, I think you just put your
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: finger on it. Clearly a trigger was pulled. The question
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: is was that a voluntary, knowing and intentional action or
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: an involuntary action based upon an accident? I mean, Lisa
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: daddy as joining me form place, Lieutenant when you have
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: MPD and now director of the Center for Advanced Policing, Lisa,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You hear this guy
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: has a collection of forty guns, including an a R.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: You also hear the ballistics experts say at thirty eight
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: is not going to go off quote on its own.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: What do you make of it? It's an excuse he's
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: using it. And that's just my personal feeling. You don't
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: have that volume of firearms, and one would assume he
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: has adequate training and he knows what he's doing with
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: the firearm for something to go off quote accidentally having
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: your finger on the trigger, being able to pull that
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: trigger with however many pounds is required for the weapon
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: that was used in this murder. It just doesn't make
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: any sense. And hearing it and seeing it, it's just
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: it's honestly mind boggling. The claims in this case that
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: it was anything but murder. And let's talk about the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: trajectory path in the case. Doctor Kendall Crowns is joining me,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Chief Medical Examiner of Tarrant County. That's Fort Worth Lectural University,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Texas and Texas A and M and On Faculty, University
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: of Texas Medical Branch. Doctor Crowns, thank you for being
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: with us. What can you tell us about the trajectory path?
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: So the trajectory path of the bullet was listed by
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: the medical examiner going from back to front, right to
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: left and downwards. There was some question of whether it
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: was upwards, but based on what the medical examiner said,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: it did have a downward trajectory path. Okay, doctor Kendall Crowns,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: could you translate that? What does that mean? If he's
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: sitting in the back seat and you've got obviously back
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: to front, which means he shot from the back seat,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: she's sitting in the front seat from right to left,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: must mean he scooted over or in the very middle.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: If the trajectory goes from her right to her left
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: and you're saying up to down, up to down like
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: right under the breast, downward toward the hip and that.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: What does that mean? Where would he have been sitting?
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: How would that have happened? So the gun itself would
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: have to be slightly to have a downward wound course,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: kind of slightly elevated based on the entrance wound. So
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: it's you know, if it's sitting in his lap like
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: he is saying, it's a possibility that the guns firing
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: from waist height of him hitting her in the back
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and then going in a slightly downward course, and he's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: right handed, that if it were to go off in
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: that direction and he's holding it in his right hand,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: he'd have to turn. I don't see how that would
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: be achieved by just sitting in the back seat with
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: your hand holding the gun and your finger on the trigger.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: If that were too and you're right handed, it would
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: have gone off toward the drive her side, not the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: passenger side. That's correct, if he's sitting that. Yeah, I mean,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: you make a good point. It would be difficult if
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: he's firing it from his right hand for it to
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: have a right to left trajectory based on her position
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: in the car. Okay, So, doctor Kennel Crowns, I was
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: thinking left to right. You said this was right to
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: left correct? Correct? Okay, that makes more sense if he's
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: right hand and he's on the right and he's turned
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: that way. Yeah. Still, but still you've got up to down.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense if he's sitting behind her holding
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: the gun in his lap, as he says, how would
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: the trajectory path be up to down again, I mean
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: it's it's difficult to say. Based on the level of
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the chairs in the car, I would assume they're all level.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: You would expect it to be more of a just
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: no upward downward deviation, just to be a straight shot through.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: So it does show that the gun is slightly of
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: her position when it's fired to give it a downward course. Again,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: I don't have a good explanation for that. To Mike,
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: but joining me Former reporter WSBTV channel to Atlanta. How
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: did the defense if you can recall, explain away that
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: trajectory path. Well, I mean they claimed that, you know,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the way he was sitting, uh, you know that the
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: gun would have been on his lap, and you know
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: they had a defense uh expert who testified that the
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: gun would not have been against the seat, that it
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: would have been you know, back a few inches when fired.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: UM test for gunshot residue were not conducted by APD
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: according to this expert. Um and that he said, the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: gun really wouldn't have been pressed up against the seat,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: had to have been to these six inches away, um
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: and and and and potentially in that plastic bag as
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: they had said. And that you know, in with the
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: gun resting is buying that way due to the what
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: they called spacial constraints inside the suv, holding the gun
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: vertically would not have been possible. Okay, I hear you
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: talking about what the defense said was spatial constraints in
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: the car. I know this. They can special constraint all
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: they want to. But he pulled the trigger, and she's dead,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: and she did not want him in the room with
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: her as she was dying, And that's got account for something.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: And you heard people describe his behavior afterwards as what
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: not to do after your spouse dies. Take a listen
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: now to our cut seven. So in the car, you
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: have the man who pulls the trigger, the woman who dies,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: and the driver. All three of these people initially say
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: it was an accident. What happens after they get out
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: of the cars text changes his story. A couple of times.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: And the driver of the car, who originally said it
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: was a terrible tragedy, a terrible accident, she changes her story,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: and she says that Texts asked her to change her
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: story as well. He also then goes on to auction
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: off all of her belonging. She had hundreds of thousands
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: of dollars worth of jewelry and furs and Coultur clothing.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: And now he says it was at the behest of
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: a lawyer who was running her estate. But he each
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: thing he does individually it looks a little odd, but
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: collectively it just doesn't look good at all. What does
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: she mean by that? And Mike Pacinni joining me formerly
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: with WSBTV, what does she mean that the driver of
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Danny Joe Carter also changed her story. Well, you know,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: in the days after the shooting, we know that Textadiver
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: called her, left a voicemail on her husband's phone essentially
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: saying she's going to send me to prison. You got
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: to help me here, buddy, And that's of course, why
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: are you as convicted of the witness tampering. But she was,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: she was fearful, She was worried that he was going
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: to come after her when he wanted her, the driver
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Danny lin Carter, to change her story. What did he
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: want her to say, Mike, Oh yeah, I mean you
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: wanted her say that this was this was an accident.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: He wanted her to corroborate his story. So in the
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: end everything changed. I want you to hear what we
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: know about Diane before her death, refusing to have her
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: husband with her as she was rolled into the e er.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut twelve of our friends
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: at eleven Alive. Before Diane went into the operating room,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: doctor Hardy asked Diane if she wanted to see her husband.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Here is doctor Hardy recalling that question, followed by Diane's
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: response two questions about the shooting itself and and she
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: appeared to be coherent when she said no, rress right,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: She said accident. She wasn't rest, She said no, you do?
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I steer her when the direction or her knowledge to
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: say something, no said yes. And witnesses earlier in the
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: day testified that Diane and Texts were not arguing leading
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: up to the shooting. We also heard from other doctors
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: and nurses. They said while at the hospital, Tex mcgiver
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: did not show any signs of anxiety the night of
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: the incident, and he remained calm and rather polite when
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: talking with medical staff throughout the evening as he was
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: updated on his wife's status at the hospital. But what
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: exactly was the verdict on which level offense was he convicted?
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: So he was convicted of felony murder, which, as you know, Nancy,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: in the state of Georgia, means that the jury believed
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: that he was committing the felony of aggravated assault to
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: wound his wife and she died during the commission of
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: that felony. But what was curious was after the the verdict,
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: a juror went on TV and was asked, point blank,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: do you feel like this was, you know, malicious in
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: any way? Of course, he wasn't convicted of malice murder,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: but he was convicted of feliing murder, and the juror
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: was seemed kind of confused and was like, you know,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: I think he did what he had to do. He
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: shot her to incapacitate her so he could somehow control her.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: So there was a lot of confusion after that verdict. Nancy,
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: take a listen hour cut thirteen injury four person verdict
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: into the rector Tom murder, you find it defended not guilty.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: On top two. Felling murder we find dependent guilty, and
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: a felming murder on top three. Anivated assault, we find
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: it defended guilty. On top four, possession of a buyer,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: transmission of a feller, we find it defended guilty on
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: top five. Influencely a witness. I'm a defender, but in
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: the last hours, the Georgia Supreme Court has chosen to
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: completely override the jury decision and reverse the conviction. Time
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. Daryl Cohen joined me, former prosecutor,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: now defense attorney and civil attorney. Daryl, you know we've
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: all heard of ear witnesses. I was just listening and
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: I heard a voice that I could identify anywhere. It
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: was a longtime friend, a protege, a person I trained myself,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Quent Rucker, prosecut one of the prosecutors in this case. Darren,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: did you explain how it feels when you put your heart,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: your soul into a case and you know the person
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: is guilty and has done a horrible thing, and an
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: appellate court in their ivory tower reverses the case. Nancy,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to explain. Clint Rucker was this case
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: in my view because of his perfases. He was so
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: perfect safe, Oh my gosh, he was so good at
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: what he did. He made the jury realize, he brought
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the jury into the car, He brought the jury into
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: the life of Texas Diane mckiber. He was able to
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: convince them that what happened was not an accident. And
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: when you put your heart and soul into a case
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: and you believe everything that you've done, and then you
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: have someone or someones in this case who were not
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom, who are only looking at the transcripts,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: it destroys your whole fiber of your being for this
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: particular case, because you know what you did was right.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: You know what you did was the correct thing to do,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: and you argued and you persuaded this jury to do
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: what they should have done. And to see people who
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: were not there, who don't really know, don't know what
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the feelings are, the emotion, it's destroys you from within,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: especially a good prosecutor, a decent, good person like Clint,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: who gave it his all. And now this you know
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: what I want to talk about. I want to talk
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: about money, Mike Pachennik, you just heard Darryl Cohen, who
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: was a prosecutor the same office with me and and
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: mister Slaton, as you will recall describing the feeling you
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: get when an appellate court who really has no idea
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: what went on in the courtroom reverses your case. I
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: want he mentioned the life they led. They lived pretty
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: high on the hog, Mike. It was all her money.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: He was floundering. She was bailing him out, wasn't she. Yeah,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I mean he worked at a big waw firm. But
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: you mentioned at the beginning that he was sort of
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: set out the pasture right because he wasn't pulling his weight.
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: And she was definitely the breadwinner in that house. She
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: owned the ranch out in Eatenton. There was testimony that
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: she was lending him hundreds of thousands of dollars to
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: bankroll his lavish lifestyle. And back during the trial it
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: came out that he sort of joked with her that
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: he had to win the lottery because he was spending
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: more than they were bringing in. And you know, the
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: prosecution put on a case that here's a guy who
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: stood to gain millions of dollars with Diane dead and
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: she was worth more to him dead than a lot.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: You know, I think that's an illness to share. Schwartz.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: I really do, not rising to the level of insanity.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, doctor Sherry, we grew up
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: with nothing on a red dirt road in Middle Georgia.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: And when you grow up that way, you know how
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: blessed you are when you finally get a job, you know,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: when you finally get your first car. I mean, it
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: sounds like spending money and being used to a lavish
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: lifestyle was something he could not forego. It does seem
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: like that, and you're right there. It may not in
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: and of itself be a diagnosable mental illness, but there
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: is usually some sort of psychopathology underlying that, whether it's
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we see it a lot in narcissism,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: you know, we see it in histrionic personalities, various things
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: where people are spending and spending and spending to try
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: to fill some void and they think that the stuff
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: is going to help them fill that void. Hmm. I
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: think you just get used to being rich. I mean,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, you and I prosecuted people that were broke.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: We prosecuted really really rich people up from North Atlanta.
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: Have you ever noticed how rich people? They are so cheap.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: They will spend all kinds of money on themselves in
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: a lavish lifestyle. They wouldn't give a man on the
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: corner a dollar if their life depended on it. Well, well, Nancy,
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I think that's narcissism. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: had your psychiatric degree as well, but go ahead, it's
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: my personal psychiatric degree. I just think that's narcissism, and
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: it's all it's all about me, And this is what
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: much of this country has turned to be. I mean
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: that farm in Eatonton, that that was his idea, the rant,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: the farm, they had a full on staff, there was
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: a home, there were hundreds of acres that had to
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: be kept up for what So they can drive an
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: hour out of Atlanta and go sit on the front
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: porch on the weekend. I mean, that's a huge ticket.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Item makes no sense to me. Never did. But you
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: can't make this stuff up, you know, you just can't
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: figure out rich people. I'm just telling you that. I mean,
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: my pitchenic. What was their lifestyle? I mean, they give
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: you an example. They had a private massus that would
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: come to their fancy condo and Buckhead and you know,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: rub them down a couple of times a week. That
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: had to have been expensive. Okay, well, well, white white, white, white,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: white white. Please, Mike talking to me, I feel like
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I'm drinking on the firehautch and too much, too fast away?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Could you slow Danna say that again? I need to
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: hear that one more time. They had a private massus
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: who came to their fancy Buckhead condo several times a
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: week to give them a massage, which had to have
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: been very expensive. In fact, she was called those a
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: witness in the trial. The Massus. You know, I completely
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: forgot that part. Tell me about that part. Yeah, this
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: was a young female massous who became very close with
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: Diane and Tex over time, who would come and give
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: them massages. And frankly, during the trial, those of us
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: who were covering it were kind of waiting for the
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: prosecution to drop some other's shoe and claim that there
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: was something on toured happening between texts and this Massus
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: that did not happen, and that there was no evidence
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: of that that they were certainly kind of leading jurors
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: down that path. But that's just an example of the
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: kind of spending that they did. They were, you know,
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: they were high society folks, you know, doctor Kendall Crown's
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: chief medical Examiner Tarrant County as fort Worth, Doctor Crowns,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard the phrase dying declaration many many times.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: That's an exception to hearsay. Hearsay when you ask a
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: witness to stay under oath to a jury or in
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: court what somebody else said, that's not there to be
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: cross examined. That's the problem with your pay. You can't
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: cross examine the speaker. Dying declaration completely different. And in
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: this case, Diane said no, I don't want to see him.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: That was her dying declaration. She did not want him around.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Or have you had other cases of your let me
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: just say, patients that gave dying declarations, and do you
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: believe that based on what you know, Diane understood what
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: she was saying at the end. You know, I have
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: had other cases in which there was you know, they
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: asked for family to be by their side, or asked
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: to go home, things of that nature. Based on her injuries,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: I don't feel like she had anything that would have
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: caused her cognition or her ability to think clearly to
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: be disrupted. So I feel like she knew what she
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: was saying at the time she passed away and had
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: whatever purpose in her mind for it. I don't think
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: it was a confused statement. I think it was something
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: that she just didn't want him around at the end.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: Mike Pitchin with Me, high profile reporter formerly a WSBTV
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Channel two. Why did the supremes claim they had to
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: reverse this decision? They claimed that there was thin evidence
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: at best that there was an intentional murder committed here.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't an intentional murder conviction. It was a
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: felony murder conviction right right. And they are claiming that
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: the jury should have been given the option to convict
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: text mcgiver of the much lesser misdemeanor involuntary manslaughter charge,
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: which would say that this was a reckless act and accident,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: and they were not given that instruction. So because of
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: that they overturned the conviction. M m M. What does
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: it mean for him now? Is he already out of
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: the jail, is there going to be new trial? What?
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: He's still serving out a five year sentence for the
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: witness tampering charge. He only has a couple of months
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: left on that his attorneys have filed an emergency motion
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: to get him out. The new District Attorney, Fannie Willis
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: and Fulton County her office so that they will take
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: this under advisement. They haven't decided whether to retry the case.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: We wait as Justice sentfols. Nancy Grace com story, signing
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: off goodbye friend.