Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Matthew Ray Scott, MS and Scott Sigman, MD on Building a Trusted Physician Brand

Transcript

Matthew Ray Scott, MS and Scott Sigman, MD on Building a Trusted Physician Brand · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

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  - The strategic agenda facing hospital and health system
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  - This is Scott Becker with the Beckers Health
• 1:01
  - Care Podcast.
• 1:02
  - I'm thrilled today to be joined by two
• 1:04
  - brilliant people.
• 1:05
  - We're joined today by orthopedic
• 1:08
  - surgeon,
• 1:09
  - doctor Scott Sigmon,
• 1:11
  - and also marketing leader
• 1:13
  - and brilliant
• 1:14
  - entrepreneur,
• 1:15
  - Matthew Ray Scott.
• 1:17
  - We're gonna talk today doctor Sigman and and
• 1:20
  - Matthew just released a new book called Physician
• 1:23
  - Brand RX,
• 1:24
  - and there's probably nobody that's more
• 1:27
  - intelligent and ubiquitous
• 1:29
  - and you see more of,
• 1:30
  - on sort of TikTok in other places
• 1:33
  - in all the different entrepreneurial efforts than fantastic
• 1:36
  - orthopedic surgeon,
• 1:38
  - Scott Sigmon.
• 1:40
  - Doctor Sigmon,
• 1:41
  - Matt, Matthew,
• 1:43
  - thank you so much for joining us. Maybe
• 1:45
  - take a moment and tell us the impetus
• 1:48
  - for writing the book,
• 1:50
  - and just an introduction
• 1:51
  - of both of you. Scott, why don't we
• 1:53
  - start with you, and then we'll go to
• 1:55
  - to Matthew.
• 1:56
  - Tell us a bit about yourself and the
• 1:58
  - impetus for writing the book.
• 2:00
  - Yeah. Scott, always great to hear and see
• 2:02
  - you again, my friend. Looking forward to spending
• 2:04
  - time again in October as well. So, yes,
• 2:06
  - Scott Sigmon, orthopedic surgeon, healer of knees and
• 2:09
  - shoulders left and right. I've been in clinical
• 2:10
  - practice for thirty years as an orthopedic sports
• 2:13
  - medicine and private practice in particular.
• 2:15
  - And I think that, really, the premise of
• 2:17
  - the book for for me in particular was
• 2:19
  - that we really live in a digital world
• 2:21
  - at this point right now. And so
• 2:23
  - it used to be old school. You know,
• 2:25
  - you just sort of hang up a shingle.
• 2:26
  - You'd wait around, and you go and shake
• 2:29
  - some hands and kiss some babies. And, eventually,
• 2:31
  - one day, you got to have a busy
• 2:32
  - practice. But the world right now is in
• 2:34
  - is in the hands of our cell phones,
• 2:36
  - and we Google everything. And so the question
• 2:39
  - became
• 2:40
  - for our our clinicians that are out there,
• 2:43
  - is there a pathway that we can provide
• 2:45
  - them to help them cultivate
• 2:48
  - their digital message. It's their digital message
• 2:51
  - that will is what can be shared
• 2:54
  - across the world, if you will, and we'll
• 2:57
  - then hope to identify the ideal patients
• 3:00
  - for that physician so they can come to
• 3:02
  - them and be seen in a clinical manner.
• 3:05
  - Thank you. And and, Matthew, Matthew, talk a
• 3:07
  - little bit about
• 3:08
  - the collaboration with doctor Sigman and sort of
• 3:11
  - yourself and a little background on on what
• 3:13
  - you do.
• 3:14
  - Yeah. The collaboration with Scott goes way back.
• 3:17
  - And,
• 3:18
  - in fact, I was getting ready to go
• 3:20
  - surfing in San Diego
• 3:22
  - when I sent a personalized video to doctor
• 3:25
  - Sigman
• 3:25
  - introducing myself,
• 3:27
  - letting him know that I think he's got
• 3:29
  - a great reputation. And so that was our
• 3:31
  - initial collaboration, but the collaboration
• 3:34
  - which led to the upcoming book, physician BrandRx,
• 3:38
  - is I'm a surgeon reputation architect. And so
• 3:41
  - for the past fifteen years,
• 3:44
  - I've been helping surgeons'
• 3:46
  - reputation
• 3:47
  - arrive and
• 3:49
  - scale outside of the operating room. And so
• 3:52
  - on the surface, it sounds like marketing or
• 3:54
  - branding until
• 3:56
  - you dig into what we talk about in
• 3:58
  - the book, which is that
• 4:01
  - trust for surgeons
• 4:03
  - is formed before they ever beat a patient
• 4:06
  - or media
• 4:07
  - or medtech
• 4:09
  - leadership,
• 4:10
  - not during it. And so by the time
• 4:13
  - that we meet them, we wanna be able
• 4:15
  - to
• 4:16
  - take trust and scale it. And so we
• 4:19
  - did a quick play on words with the
• 4:21
  - book. Position BrandRx
• 4:22
  - is not a book about marketing.
• 4:25
  - It's, as Scott said, it's a book about
• 4:27
  - reputation,
• 4:29
  - about
• 4:30
  - who you say you are,
• 4:32
  - who your ideal patients say you are,
• 4:35
  - and who the Internet says you are.
• 4:37
  - Thank you. And and and talk about this,
• 4:40
  - Matthew, from a
• 4:41
  - perspective of building that reputation
• 4:44
  - online.
• 4:45
  - What are some of the things that work
• 4:47
  - for surgeons that they should do, that they
• 4:49
  - shouldn't do? Give us a few thoughts there
• 4:51
  - and and maybe some wisdom that that's also
• 4:54
  - part of in the book.
• 4:55
  - Yeah. I think that surgeons will find this
• 4:57
  - helpful. I know that Scott was
• 5:00
  - the,
• 5:02
  - the operating system behind this. If you go
• 5:04
  - back to seven years ago when Scott and
• 5:07
  - I began to work together,
• 5:09
  - he was
• 5:10
  - the
• 5:11
  - archeotype.
• 5:12
  - He was the blueprint.
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  - Scott already had a footprint,
• 5:16
  - and we were just able to channel that
• 5:19
  - and to be able to align it with
• 5:21
  - his interest.
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  - And as Scott will tell you here in
• 5:24
  - a minute, can you imagine the arrows that
• 5:27
  - Scott took in his back when he announced
• 5:29
  - that he was gonna build a category around
• 5:31
  - opioid sparing.
• 5:33
  - And so
• 5:34
  - in the book,
• 5:36
  - what we were able to do is to
• 5:37
  - take surgeons right where they're at, which is
• 5:40
  - they have something to say,
• 5:43
  - but they don't know how to frame it.
• 5:45
  - Surgeons don't want to be influencers
• 5:48
  - or dancing on TikTok,
• 5:51
  - but they haven't been taught how to take
• 5:53
  - reputation
• 5:54
  - and align it with what we put in
• 5:56
  - the book. So in the book, we give
• 5:58
  - them a step by step operating system
• 6:01
  - that frames reputation
• 6:03
  - around unique
• 6:05
  - perspective, unique
• 6:07
  - process,
• 6:08
  - unique
• 6:09
  - procedures,
• 6:10
  - unique patients,
• 6:12
  - and their unique place of treatment.
• 6:14
  - So we essentially took the love language of
• 6:17
  - surgeons, which is protocol.
• 6:19
  - We put it into a book,
• 6:21
  - and Scott and I don't view the book
• 6:24
  - as marketing. Rather, this is pathology meets prognosis,
• 6:28
  - prognosis meets protocol one zero one.
• 6:31
  - Thank you. And and doctor Sigman,
• 6:34
  - you got this fascinating background of
• 6:37
  - really highly regarded orthopedic
• 6:39
  - surgeon and practitioner,
• 6:41
  - built a great practice,
• 6:43
  - also an entrepreneur,
• 6:44
  - also a media host.
• 6:46
  - What advice do we have for surgeons trying
• 6:49
  - to build a practice and build a profession
• 6:52
  - and enjoy themselves?
• 6:54
  - And maybe along with that, how has your
• 6:57
  - definition of success changed over the years? What
• 6:59
  - do you view as a win, a loss?
• 7:02
  - What what what fills your bucket?
• 7:04
  - The the probably the greatest win, Scott, is
• 7:07
  - when I go to open up the next
• 7:08
  - door for the new patient that's sitting there
• 7:10
  - in in the room,
• 7:12
  - I know that because of the hard work
• 7:14
  - and messaging that I did, that that patient
• 7:16
  - is literally there because they wanted to see
• 7:18
  - me. And and it's not they probably had
• 7:20
  - to drive by 30 other orthopedic surgeons to
• 7:23
  - be able to sit in that exam room.
• 7:24
  - But I wanna be clear. You know, I
• 7:26
  - didn't wake up one morning and say, I
• 7:28
  - wanna develop this personal brand. What I wanted
• 7:31
  - to do was to become a better orthopedic
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  - surgeon and one that could message
• 7:35
  - exactly the things that wake me up in
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  - the morning and get me excited and my
• 7:39
  - passion. So, you know, yes.
• 7:41
  - I started writing articles, speaking at meetings, and
• 7:45
  - recording podcasts, and now, obviously, writing a book.
• 7:48
  - But at the end of the day, this
• 7:50
  - book again, I I think that Matthew really
• 7:52
  - summed it up well. We're we're this is
• 7:54
  - not about becoming an influencer.
• 7:56
  - Okay? It's not about chasing followers.
• 7:59
  - It's about becoming discoverable,
• 8:01
  - being able to share your professional message
• 8:05
  - that gets you happy in the morning, that
• 8:07
  - gives you joy to be an orthopedic surgeon
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  - so that your patients can find you by
• 8:12
  - messaging
• 8:13
  - consistently
• 8:14
  - in a manner that they will understand.
• 8:18
  - Thank you. And and and doctor Segment, you
• 8:20
  - do a number of different things. You practice,
• 8:22
  - you write, you speak,
• 8:24
  - you founded a company, Ortho Laser.
• 8:27
  - Talk about sort of how you find the
• 8:29
  - energy
• 8:30
  - and and what fills your bucket. What what
• 8:33
  - drives you
• 8:34
  - to accomplish so much and stay so active?
• 8:37
  - Yeah.
• 8:38
  - I'd like to say that orthopedic surgery has
• 8:40
  - become my side hustle, but I know that
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  - my partners at Spire don't want me saying
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  - that out loud. I'm still a very high
• 8:46
  - RVU orthopedic surgeon,
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  - at the age of almost 62.
• 8:50
  - I thoroughly enjoy,
• 8:52
  - seeing my patients now. What I've actually done
• 8:54
  - really well, Scott,
• 8:56
  - is through all of the podcasting and the
• 8:58
  - messaging and the branding that I've developed, I've
• 9:00
  - had a network of people that have sort
• 9:02
  - of come to me with grand ideas.
• 9:05
  - So now I literally
• 9:06
  - have AI scribing in the office. I can
• 9:09
  - see patients be done at 03:30 and have
• 9:11
  - all of my work done. I can then
• 9:13
  - go home, get my substack ready,
• 9:16
  - review my podcasting,
• 9:18
  - edits that are gonna be coming up for
• 9:19
  - next week's guest, and then, of course, meet
• 9:21
  - with Matthew and work out the edits for
• 9:23
  - our book, and at the same time, be
• 9:26
  - able to create a company Ortho Laser that
• 9:28
  - we're, helping to scale across the country. All
• 9:30
  - of those things give me great joy.
• 9:34
  - It's fantastic. And and and, Matthew, when you
• 9:36
  - look at the next six months, the next
• 9:38
  - year, when you see this evolution
• 9:41
  - of physicians building practices and how they build
• 9:44
  - practices,
• 9:46
  - Any advice or any thoughts for physicians as
• 9:48
  - they try and grow, and what are you
• 9:50
  - most excited about?
• 9:52
  - There's three trends that
• 9:54
  - Scott and I
• 9:55
  - are predicting
• 9:57
  - and providing solutions for. And
• 10:01
  - they're actually one trend, but they're wearing kinda
• 10:04
  - slightly different clothing, so to speak. So the
• 10:06
  - first one is is the concept of k
• 10:09
  - o l, I e, get selected
• 10:12
  - by industry. Like, we're sixth grade in kickball,
• 10:15
  - and you either get selected or you don't.
• 10:18
  - It's getting ready to change.
• 10:19
  - And Scott and I talk in the book
• 10:21
  - about a compliant way to think of yourself
• 10:24
  - as a COL or a DOL. COL is
• 10:27
  - a category opinion leader.
• 10:29
  - DOL is digital opinion leaders. And device companies
• 10:32
  - are gonna have to pick this up because
• 10:35
  - the narrative is getting ready to be controlled
• 10:38
  - by the Scott Sigmans,
• 10:40
  - Corey Calendines,
• 10:42
  - Charlie Dacooks.
• 10:44
  - Second,
• 10:45
  - patients and referring physicians we know, they're going
• 10:48
  - to AI
• 10:49
  - to check out surgeons before they ask a
• 10:52
  - colleague. So the concept of traditional referral patterns
• 10:55
  - are getting ready to change.
• 10:57
  - And Scott said it earlier, if you're a
• 11:00
  - surgeon that says,
• 11:02
  - I choose to be silent
• 11:04
  - or
• 11:05
  - I don't have anything to say, you're gonna
• 11:07
  - get lost in the signal versus noise ratio.
• 11:09
  - And then finally, Scott,
• 11:13
  - the aspect of surgeons branding themselves
• 11:16
  - around procedures and technique, it's a commodity. It's
• 11:19
  - a race to the messy middle.
• 11:21
  - Owning a category for modern day surgeons
• 11:25
  - is no longer based on,
• 11:27
  - I'll love you like my family, and I
• 11:29
  - use the latest in technology.
• 11:32
  - Thank you. And and when you think about
• 11:33
  - this as a surgeon,
• 11:35
  - let's take a large city surgeon.
• 11:38
  - Digital footprint
• 11:39
  - versus hand to hand combat in terms of
• 11:41
  - raising reputation,
• 11:43
  - growing reputation.
• 11:44
  - What does that look like versus, let's say,
• 11:47
  - a smaller midtown surgeon
• 11:49
  - where he or she may be the the
• 11:50
  - key person in that area, and it's easier
• 11:53
  - to be the one? How does that look
• 11:55
  - in sort of
• 11:56
  - a very crowded urban area like Scott is
• 11:58
  - in versus a smaller area that many surgeons
• 12:01
  - are in?
• 12:02
  - It's democratized.
• 12:04
  - Having a unique perspective,
• 12:06
  - having a unique brand built on trust is
• 12:09
  - your real currency,
• 12:11
  - and the understanding of how to monetize your
• 12:13
  - reputation,
• 12:14
  - it's democratized.
• 12:16
  - So
• 12:17
  - would you believe me if I shared with
• 12:19
  - you that I work with surgeons that are
• 12:20
  - in rural areas?
• 12:22
  - They don't wanna work in Chicago,
• 12:24
  - NYC,
• 12:25
  - or Boston.
• 12:26
  - They wanna live in Altoona, Pennsylvania,
• 12:29
  - but they wanna have a thriving practice.
• 12:31
  - Would you believe
• 12:33
  - me if I told you that their capture
• 12:35
  - rate
• 12:36
  - of patients coming from Philly and Pittsburgh
• 12:39
  - to their
• 12:40
  - branded outpatient center based on
• 12:43
  - a unique
• 12:45
  - patient protocol or experience
• 12:47
  - is taking patients away out of the perceived
• 12:50
  - density of urban.
• 12:51
  - I think the day and age of you're
• 12:53
  - a surgeon and you must default to a
• 12:55
  - large urban city, I think those days are
• 12:58
  - over with. The Boise, Idaho's, the Bentonville, Arkansas
• 13:02
  - are gonna be able to compete and serve
• 13:05
  - patients on an equal footing
• 13:07
  - as Scott has in Boston
• 13:08
  - and as others have in other cities.
• 13:13
  - Thank you. And and and doctor Sigman,
• 13:16
  - you've done this incredible job of both being
• 13:18
  - a great surgeon and building a brand.
• 13:21
  - Advice for others trying to do the same
• 13:22
  - thing.
• 13:24
  - So every physician
• 13:26
  - has the knowledge that can improve someone else's
• 13:28
  - life.
• 13:29
  - The challenge today isn't having the expertise.
• 13:32
  - We all get that expertise.
• 13:34
  - The challenge is making sure that that expertise
• 13:37
  - is visible
• 13:39
  - so that the Internet and then therefore your
• 13:41
  - future patients can identify
• 13:44
  - what it is that makes you special.
• 13:46
  - AI is going to be the front door
• 13:48
  - to health care information.
• 13:50
  - If patients ask AI about you tomorrow,
• 13:53
  - what will that story tell? Our goal with
• 13:56
  - physician BrandRx is to help physicians
• 13:58
  - make sure that that story reflects exactly who
• 14:01
  - they really are so their message can be
• 14:03
  - shared.
• 14:05
  - Thank you so much. I I know that,
• 14:08
  - you're gonna come speak with, I think, Matthew
• 14:10
  - at our October Surgery Center meeting in Chicago
• 14:13
  - for Becker's HealthCare.
• 14:15
  - We're gonna get the people in your room
• 14:17
  - that come here. You speak some books to
• 14:19
  - to take with them.
• 14:21
  - Scott, where can people learn more about the
• 14:23
  - book,
• 14:24
  - and about what you're doing?
• 14:26
  - Matthew, why don't you take that one?
• 14:28
  - So physicianbrandrx.com
• 14:33
  - is a precursor page that we set up
• 14:36
  - that talks about our philosophy in preparation for
• 14:39
  - the book. So what you don't know behind
• 14:42
  - the scenes is
• 14:44
  - Scott and I, as we went through the
• 14:45
  - process of writing the book,
• 14:47
  - we
• 14:48
  - worked with our publisher
• 14:50
  - on what's the best way formatting wise to
• 14:53
  - present this. And where we wound up with
• 14:56
  - physician brand RX
• 14:58
  - is the concept of taking 58 doctrines.
• 15:02
  - Now those 58 doctrines are applicable to all
• 15:05
  - physicians
• 15:06
  - and surgeons,
• 15:07
  - but in this case,
• 15:08
  - Scott is the operating system. So we were
• 15:11
  - able to follow doctor Sigman
• 15:13
  - and take the different iterations that he made,
• 15:17
  - such as controlling his reputation, controlling the narrative
• 15:21
  - on being able to have a measurement,
• 15:23
  - and emphasizing
• 15:25
  - legibility
• 15:26
  - over being
• 15:27
  - louder.
• 15:28
  - So what what happens is that no longer
• 15:31
  - will a surgeon
• 15:33
  - come to Scott and I and go, well,
• 15:35
  - that's easy for doctor Sigman.
• 15:37
  - He's a natural.
• 15:39
  - We've democratized that process in these 58 doctrines
• 15:42
  - that it doesn't matter if you're an introvert
• 15:44
  - or an extrovert,
• 15:46
  - the ability
• 15:47
  - to clear up the confusion or the difference
• 15:50
  - between you and other surgeons,
• 15:53
  - perspective trumps procedure all day long. And our
• 15:56
  - book
• 15:57
  - puts that in the easy to follow
• 16:00
  - doctrines
• 16:01
  - that a surgeon can implement. And then, Scott,
• 16:03
  - this may be the right time to say
• 16:05
  - that
• 16:06
  - based on request,
• 16:08
  - post book,
• 16:09
  - for those practices that want Scott and I
• 16:13
  - to enter into their practice
• 16:15
  - and be that kind of practical coach
• 16:19
  - within the practice,
• 16:21
  - we have an an opportunity, and we've created
• 16:23
  - something for them.
• 16:25
  - Really fantastic.
• 16:27
  - And and and doctor Sigmund, what an amazing
• 16:29
  - job by you and Matthew. Any closing thoughts
• 16:32
  - for the audience?
• 16:33
  - Just just that the world is a digital
• 16:36
  - world. So to our our physician listeners that
• 16:38
  - are out there, you can either let AI
• 16:41
  - decide your message for you, or you can
• 16:43
  - cultivate your brand and your message
• 16:45
  - by yourself for the world to know.
• 16:48
  - And for me, Scott, my parting words are,
• 16:51
  - doctor, stop waiting to be invited.
• 16:54
  - Control the narrative. Lead with unique perspective.
• 16:58
  - And finally,
• 17:00
  - doctor, you'll be known for something. The only
• 17:02
  - question is whether you choose to frame it
• 17:05
  - or not.
• 17:06
  - Yeah. I I love that. And I love
• 17:08
  - your thoughts also around who selects key opinion
• 17:10
  - leaders
• 17:11
  - in this concept that you don't have to
• 17:13
  - elect
• 17:14
  - that you could develop a platform so you
• 17:16
  - can be yourself. I think that is just
• 17:19
  - a fantastic.
• 17:20
  - I I love that, Matthew. That is the
• 17:22
  - future, the democratization
• 17:24
  - of a lot of this where somebody doesn't
• 17:26
  - have to select you as a key opinion
• 17:28
  - leader, you, yourself, a key opinion leader, just
• 17:31
  - like doctor Signley has done an amazing job
• 17:33
  - of doing so, both a key opinion leader
• 17:36
  - and a digital opinion leader. I love those
• 17:38
  - thoughts.
• 17:39
  - Scott and Matthew, I wanna thank both of
• 17:41
  - you for joining us today on the Beckrose
• 17:42
  - HealthCare podcast.
• 17:44
  - Really fantastic what you're doing and how you
• 17:46
  - can help physicians in doing this. Thank you
• 17:48
  - so much for joining us.
• 17:50
  - Thank you, Scott. Thank you, Scott. We appreciate
• 17:52
  - it. We look forward to seeing you in
• 17:53
  - Chicago.