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Covering Trump from Air Force One: Audrey Fahlberg on Politics and the Press · Liberty + Leadership

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Liberty and Leadership Podcast, a conversation with TFAS alumni, faculty, and friends who are making an impact today.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Roger Reim.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy to welcome Audrey Fahlberg to the Liberty and Leadership Podcast.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Audrey is Washington correspondent with the Free Press.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Prior to this role, she was a political reporter for National Review, a campaign reporter at The Dispatch, and a Bartley Fellow at the Wall Street Journal.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: In these roles, Audrey covered trends in American politics on Capitol Hill and the campaign trail.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: She's also a 2024 alumna of the TFES Robert Novak Journalism Fellowship.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Audrey, thank you for joining me today.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for having me.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Great to be here.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's wonderful to see you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot we can talk about.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's early October and the political season is in full swing.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Let me talk first a little bit about some of the things you've covered in the past, and then we'll get into what's happening now.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: But you've had a front row seat on American politics from campaigns to Capitol Hill to even being aboard Air Force One.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think that kind of access teaches you that either you didn't know before or isn't in the textbooks or isn't necessarily discussed so much outside the beltway and in terms of how the system actually works?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you again for having me.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's always great to be here.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to say thank you again for the opportunity to be a Novak fellow, because that was such an amazing opportunity.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope we get to chat about it a little bit.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've had such a fun career.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like the greatest thing about journalism is that it really beats working because it's just not, it's crazy that this is a real job, just getting to call really important people, gossip for a living, occasionally write mean pieces about people and getting chewed out.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: But it's just really a blast.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel so grateful to be able to have had this experience.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Being in Congress and going aboard Air Force One, I haven't been on the new jet yet.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I went last year, but I did that in part because of um so the Novak funding that I got.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you again for that experience.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, what was so crazy about that experience for me was just kind of realizing how much Trump loves talking to the press, right?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Anytime you're in the White House press pool, you'll comment into an event and he'll speak extemporaneously, sometimes for over an hour, which is crazy, right?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was so nervous on that plane, wondering when he would come back and talk to us.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing that was really fascinating is, you know, obviously Trump has a complicated relationship with the press, but he does love the press because he relies on the press, right?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so talking to some of those really senior reporters who'd been on Air Force One, some of them hundreds of times, which is crazy, and them comparing their experience covering Trump to President Biden, who they said would hardly ever come back and speak to them.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So one thing that kind of made me appreciate about the Trump administration really is how willing he is to speak to the press.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, a more challenging relationship lately.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, obviously he tried to kick out CNN, MS Now, and Politico recently.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: That was recently overruled, obviously.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And at the start of the administration, I really kind of appreciated that moment and what it represented about kind of the transition from the Biden presidency to the Trump presidency.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Have you had a chance to ask him questions?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: That was when I was at National Review.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: So this was March of last year.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I asked him a question about something that the Chinese government had said in relation to tariffs, and he actually started yelling at me, which is always kind of an invigorating but stressful experience, right?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't remember exactly what he said because again, this is a little over a year ago.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I quickly transitioned and asked him about Xi Jinping.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he's such an ADD president that he just immediately, after yelling at me, lit up and said, Oh, me and Shi, we have a great relationship.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just such a fun experience for you know a young reporter like me to have that opportunity to be on that plane and ask President United States a question.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just crazy thing.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you you covered him as a candidate and now you're covering him as president.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is there much of a difference that you see?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think one thing that's been really fascinating for reporters to watch and voters, of course, and something that's gonna be a huge factor in the midterm elections is how much of a foreign policy president he's been, you know, not just with Venezuela, but obviously with with Iran.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: And hearing him kind of talk about obviously at the convention coming and saying, oh, well, the war is gonna be over right after the midterm elections, but then also, you know, simultaneously telling Laura Ingram that he doesn't care about the midterm elections.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he's really in kind of legacy-shaping mode because, you know, he's been counted out so many times.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: And now that he's in his second term, I think one of the reasons that he's so preoccupied with foreign policy is he really wants to protect his legacy and be somebody who brokers peace throughout the world.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that's been middling success in some areas and still kind of ongoing with Duran.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the foreign policy issue in particular has been kind of fascinating to watch.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: He'd like to win a Nobel Peace Prize, I know.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: He would.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: He's got some more wars to end if he's gonna do that.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Let's transition a little bit to the current political scene.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: In the Democratic Party, we've seen the rise of a socialist movement, members of the DSA who are winning primaries and winning seats in Congress, and they're gonna expand their number of seats this year.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on in the Democratic Party?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Are these Democratic socialists going to be accepted by the establishment?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think what we've seen is, you know, Hakeem Jeffries is welcoming these people into the party.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that's as a party leader, what you kind of have to do if these people end up winning primaries, right?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Claire Valdez in New York, Milat, Kiros, we've got several others.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: But this is gonna be not a hefty chunk of the House Democratic caucus, but a pretty obnoxious one.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And they're gonna give Hakeem Jeffries a run for his money because, you know, he's gonna want that gavel.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's gonna be the first black speaker in history.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really imagine he's gonna have a big challenge to winning that speakership, assuming the the House Democrats, you know, retake control of the House.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing that I think is really fascinating that I'm watching, I just wrote a piece about this in the free press is the divisions inside DSA about electoral politics, because you have all these different caucuses within the Democratic Socialist of America.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some of them are avowed Marxists, right?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: They're so committed to Marxism that they are very skeptical of electoral politics and they see AOC, for example, as a sellout.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have the other types who, New York, for example, is the biggest local DSA chapter, who say, okay, Zeron Mamdani, huge electoral success for DSA.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: We have to understand that if we want to really influence politics and influence power, we need to win elections.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: We have to occasionally make compromises, right?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so that includes in New York City, for example, maybe keeping someone on, like police commissioner Jessica Tisch, right?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Who probably isn't the DSA's preferred police commissioner candidate, right?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: So watching kind of how these debates play out within DSA over the next few months is going to be really fascinating as we're looking toward 2028 and see if somebody like AOC runs for president.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not so sure that she will, but I'd say that's something to watch.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell The DSA itself, not necessarily the candidates who are winning races, but some of them as well, have put forward some fairly radical proposals, like abolishing the U.S.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Senate for one.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, even more Democrats than the DSA want to expand the court.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: And do you see any of those really radical proposals getting traction in the Democratic Party?
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell If you think about some of the ways in which the Democratic Party has changed in recent months, anti-Israel sentiment is obviously widespread within the Democratic base.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: But also the party, I mean, I don't remember the exact numbers, but over a hundred-something House Democrats voted against, you know, aid to Israel, right?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is a very popular kind of position within the establishment Democrats.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then also think about abolish ICE.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: During the woke era, that sort of language started rising, you know, with the George Floyd stuff, the anti-police rhetoric, abolishing immigration and customs enforcement, people started saying that.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Then there was this red wave backlash to that, that ended up dragging down a lot of candidates in the following cycles.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's become kind of a mainstream view again within the Democratic Party.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's been really fascinating to watch how many really senior, high-profile members of Congress and in the Democratic Party espouse that view.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think just another thing to think about as we move toward 2028, coalitions obviously aren't stagnant.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we'll talk about that a little bit more throughout this podcast.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: But the Democrats, they're still very divided.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: They're figuring out who they are.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer technically run the show, but they're not really inspiring leaders.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Ken Martin at the DNC isn't exactly what I'd call a uh ringing success.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that because there aren't any really real leaders right now corralling the party, and Joe Biden was such a failure as a presidency, and that whole how that kind of ended was obviously such a disaster that I think they're really figuring themselves out and they don't really have a coherent policy platform heading into this cycle, let alone 2028.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: That brings me actually to the piece you wrote recently called The Man Trying to Salvage the Midterms for Trump in the free press.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: This was about James Blair, who's leading the effort, former deputy chief of staff in the White House, now uh living, as you said, or working out of a office a few blocks from the White House, trying to see to it that the Republicans don't lose control of either House.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: You had some very interesting insights in there.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: You noted that there's a perception out there of corruption and self-dealing surrounding the Trump administration, the Trump family.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he kind of dismissed that because he said, but the Democrats are more responsible for the corruption we see in Minnesota regarding Medicare and daycare centers.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you think that's going to play out, that issue of corruption in the midterms?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you do looked at any polling in that regard or have a sense from your coverage of whether that is dragging down the Republican Party or is it impacting the Democrats?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I do think it's been a campaign-rallying cry for the Democrats, who, again, are not really united in policy per se, other than being very anti-Trump in their nature and saying that things are just too expensive and we want kind of more healthcare reforms.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: But beyond that, they're pretty divided.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: So a rallying cry for them has been anti-Trump, anti-Trump, anti-Trump.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing that I think has been pretty compelling from a campaign perspective is you're struggling while Trump and his friends and his family are getting rich.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And there have been a lot of interesting stories that have broken in recent months.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: The Wall Street Journal had this bombshell report about this Emirati Royal who entered into this sort of crypto deal with the Trump family.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: The UAE got this pretty favorable chips deal, stuff like that.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: ProPublica broke this pretty big story after my interview with James Blair about a Russian oligarch who ended up bankrolling Don Jr.'s wedding celebrations.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so that stuff, you know, maybe not every voter is reading ProPublica, but that gets a lot of other coverage and there are downstream effects to that.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that that will matter.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that's something that voters are picking up on.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: The biggest motivator for voters, though, as we both know, is the cost of things.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, gas and diesel prices are really, really high.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: People feel like they're struggling.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the economy and immigration, those are the two things that vaulted Trump to a second term.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: If people are really still feeling that they're struggling financially, that's really going to matter.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell In the second term, Trump has done a lot to secure the border and stem the flow of illegal immigrants, at least.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we've been reading about the, of course, the work of ICE and deporting people.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is he getting credit for that among his base that wanted to see something done about immigration, or are they frustrated that he hasn't done more?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Powell One of the funny things about having a major success on the policy front is that if you solve a problem, it just kind of goes away.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: And something else replaces that as the thing that voters are concerned about.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so voters are no longer feeling that kind of visceral concern about the surge of illegal immigration at the southern border, right?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because they're not seeing it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: He solved the problem.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: What they are seeing and feeling is discomfort with how the deportations are taking place.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I always joke with some of my sources on the Republican side that, you know, the suburban wine mom voter in Bucks County, Pennsylvania, wants deportations to happen, but she doesn't want to see them happen.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: So this term is kind of inevitable.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that there is a frustration among some immigration hawks who obviously are pleased with how he's stemmed the flow of legal immigration just basically through executive action.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: But they feel like after the Minnesota killings of a couple American citizens, that there was some nervousness and pullback from the president's immigration enforcement team.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And there's some frustrations with how, obviously, Christy Noam, how she handled the Department of Homeland Security with her alleged paramour, Corey Lewandowski, leading the department and the contractual malfeasance that ensued and kind of the PR nightmare that that caused for DHS.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then also with Mark Wayne Mullen, there's some frustrations with how he's handling things as well.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: You get credit for breaking the story about Christy Gnome and Corey Lewandowski on their way out, losing their positions there.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that was a fun one to report in part because some scoops you get are just really lucky.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was talking to the right person at the right time and I was asking this source about the rumors that I'd been hearing for months that Corey Lewandowski was kind of booted from the orbit for various reasons, but then came back, and he's been alleged to have a romantic relationship with Chrissy Gnome, which they both deny.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: But she just recently filed for divorce from her husband.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: There had been rumors from the start of the administration that he had been getting kickbacks from some of these DHS contracts, which again he denies.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: But my source just told me when I was asking the source about it in early March, actually, I just got a call from the president yesterday telling me that she may be on her way out.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was just a lucky one, but crazy stuff to cover.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: In that free press piece that I referenced earlier, you quoted one of the president's pollsters, John McLaughlin, as saying that the Republicans hope this will be a contrast election.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: That contrasts, on the one hand, what he said are Republican accomplishments with crazy proposals that DSA Democrats and other Democrats are supporting.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think they've had any success in kind of making that what the focus is among voters, at least undecided voters, to the extent there are many of them?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: It should be a compelling message because, I mean, again, the Democrats really don't have any coherent policy vision for this country.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: All they're doing is just kind of railing against affordability and Trump.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: But how are they actually going to address affordability?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's unclear.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so their idea is just to kind of say, okay, we got you your tax cuts.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: We closed the border.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's more we want to do.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: We want to have healthcare legislation, which so far has stalled.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: We want to pass a Stop Insider Trading Act, which they got through the House, but Democrats don't want to support in part because they're executive carve-outs, among other things.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Republicans also have not passed the Save America Act that hasn't been able to get through the Senate because they don't have the votes.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's really frustrating.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think a lot of Republican voters who are sitting on the sidelines are thinking, okay, maybe you got this tax bill through, but you launched the Iran War, and I'm kind of confused why that's happening, right?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: The important thing to remember is James Blair, who I interviewed for this piece, really brilliant guy, very close with Susie Wiles, the president's chief of staff.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: He's credited it in 2024 for really juicing out turnout among low and mid-propensity Republican voters.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Think people who don't typically turn out for anyone to vote, but are just particularly intrigued by Trump, those voters might really not be inspired to vote this time around, in part because they're frustrated by the Iran war and the cost of things, but also Trump's not even on the ballot.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if they don't typically turn out to vote, why are they going to turn out for their Republican congressmen?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned earlier, it's early October.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to make a prediction as to who will be controlling the House and the Senate come next January?
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's been fascinating to watch this redistricting war kind of play out on the House side.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that was another one of James Blair's pitches is saying, you know, we were counted out and saying that we were crazy for that, but we did end up netting a few seats.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe that will kind of stem the blue tsunami a little bit.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that they're gonna flip the house.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'd be shocked if Republicans held on to that, in part because it's already such a narrow majority.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's an almost impossible task.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not ready to make a prediction on the Senate yet.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be close.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure, but some of these races are getting pretty crazy.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: The polling is kind of wild in Iowa, Kansas, much closer than Republicans.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hard to believe.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Michigan is close, I guess, and Texas is close.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about Texas.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I keep going back and forth on that one.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: Part of me is thinking just it's so red.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: They've been saying this for years, they're gonna flip it.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: You had a very interesting piece uh the other day about the Maha movement, Make America Healthy Again.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you wrote about kind of the split in the Maha movement that's developed, as well as the unhappiness in the real strong, stalwart Mahas, a little bit with Secretary Kennedy at HHS and also with Lee Zeldon, especially at EPA.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: You interviewed Lee Zeldan for the peace.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think the Maha movement is an important movement and one that has a strong influence in elections?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: The Trump 2024 coalition was a fascinating kind of group of people.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: So many Americans were so rightfully disillusioned by this old decrepit president and the democratic establishment that refused to admit what everybody could see.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we saw with these Maha activists were really kind of independent or even liberal-leaning voters who decided to take a chance on Trump because Kennedy did.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And Kennedy is no stalwart conservative, right?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: He's a lawyer who's sued big chemical companies.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's long been an environmental activist and you know, he's from the Kennedy dynasty, right?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's fascinating to kind of think about where this movement goes from here because the Maha activists really have been trying to work with both parties.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, they bet their chips on Trump, but they're very frustrated that he hasn't gone far enough, his administration, to ban pesticides or herbicides, which if you go back and think about it for a second, 10,000-foot view, was the Republican administration ever really going to ban Roundup?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, Secretary Kennedy and Trump kind of made big promises to these guys on the campaign trail.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's understandable why they're frustrated.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now you were a Robert Novak Journalism Fellow in 2024.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Has that contributed wealth to your development as a journalist?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, such an amazing experience.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so grateful for that fellowship opportunity because of the connections that I was able to make, the mentorship that I was able to have.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then also it just helped me go on trips and travel.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, before you mentioned this Zelda piece, but I also used some of my Novak fellowship money to travel to California and profile him for National Review magazine last year.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't have done that without that funding.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I also used this to go board Air Force One, which was just an unforgettable experience for a young reporter.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, the TFAS community has been so helpful to me in my career.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And also being able to connect me with younger journalists and do some panels and give them advice has been really fun too.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mentioned in the opening that you were a Robert Bartley fellow at the Wall Street Journal, which is a summer position there.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: I actually knew Robert Bartley, an amazing figure and a great editor of a great paper.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: We now have the uh Joseph Rago Fellowships at the Journal, which is a little bit longer program.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's nine months at the journal.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we refer to the Rago Fellowship as a little bit like clerking at the Supreme Court for a lawyer.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: You clerk for a Supreme Court justice, you kind of have the road ahead of you clear and ability to move ahead in your career.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's been true for our Rago fellows.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're now working in major media on editorial boards and on opinion pages.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: But tell me uh about your Bartley Fellowship at the Wall Street Journal and what that experience was like, because I think it mimics a little bit the Rago Fellowship.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: The Rago Fellowship is such a great program.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: For any young people listening, you should actually apply.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I didn't do that, but I mean the journal is just an incredible place.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: I applied to that, I think when I was a sophomore or junior, I don't remember.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: At the University of Virginia?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I went to UVA.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was supposed to do it right when I graduated, but then it got bumped a year because of COVID, which was too bad.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then it ended up still being remote, which so I didn't get to interface in person with the journal folks.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, incredible experience.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: I got to directly edit op-eds by Mike Pence, John Bolton, a bunch of other really important figures.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I was getting the first pass at editing these pieces as you know, a 22-year-old or whatever it was.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been a few years since I graduated from UVA and been in this business for a little while now.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I'd say to date, still one of my greatest journalistic achievements are the three times that James Toronto did not change my headline suggestions.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: So huge moment because he he's tough.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Would definitely recommend for all journalist kids listening.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely apply.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now you were at University of Virginia, which has a special place in my heart because two of my three daughters went there.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Did you start your journalism at UVA?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I was an opinion writer there and then an opinion editor, and I was on the editorial board.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't do any of the Cavalier.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: The Cavalier Daily, yes.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't really have much reporting experience, but I ended up interning for Jonah Goldberg at the American Enterprise Institute.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I heard he was launching something called the dispatch.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of an easy transition to end up working there after I graduated.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: At Virginia, what was your field of study?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was an interdisciplinary major.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Let me see if I can remember political philosophy, policy, and law.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it was kind of like a PPE equivalent.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of people who go into journalism, study journalism undergrad, but I wouldn't recommend it.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's much better to learn how to write and think critically about politics.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um know something about politics.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And being learning how to write, especially um now that AI's taken over.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm worried about some of these college kids.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you're at the free press and it's probably one of the more well read Publications by people today.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: What's it like working there?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, decide what you want to write about.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get assigned by someone?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And how does that process work at the free press?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's kind of a combo.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I like to be kind of a self-driven reporter.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like you got to be to survive in this business.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but have really fantastic editors and they really help shape my stories and have really great reporting colleagues too.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite stories that I've written so far was with my colleague Franny Block.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: We interviewed one of the women who alleged to have kind of a negative, kind of traumatic experience with Graham Plattner, the former Democratic Senate candidate in Maine.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so we we ended up speaking to this woman, Lindsay Fifield, who'd gone public with her concerns, the New York Times, but she really felt that the New York Times botched the story.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: So my colleague Franny and I were able to kind of allow her to explain in her own words what she experienced and why she thought other reporters kind of told the story wrong.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that the free press is a really great journalistic outlet in that way and that we kind of approach stories a little bit differently.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: We've seen journalism change so much in our country over the years.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now so much of journalism takes place digitally through places like the free press or on X or other sources like that.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make your work more challenging, you think?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have to, if you're writing a story, covering a story uh that's going to go up in the free press, are you then also having to tweet and maybe do video about it or promote it yourself and many other venues?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great question and it's an important one in part because I need to be doing more video.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm a little behind, but I do think you're right to raise this point, especially to young people who who may be listening.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Video is becoming so important to how people get their news.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: So many people are getting it on Instagram, TikTok.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think people who are kind of a slow to adapt to that change are falling behind.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: TV is still important, but it's changing.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important for people to keep that in mind.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: But Twitter is definitely super important to make sure that you're getting that following and people are paying attention to what you're reading.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Reporting is becoming much of more of like a personality-driven enterprise.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you you kind of notice this if you look at Semaphore, for example, pretty new outlet.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Explain what that is for people.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a it's a pretty new outlet, digital outlet.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: They have a lot of really great reporters.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: And at the bottom, you know, if somebody they'll write a story, the reporters, and at the bottom they'll say, you know, Dave Weigel is a great reporter there, and it'll say d David's view.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it'll he'll give his take on the story.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or the New York Times, for example, they've changed their bios to have like much longer bios so you can get to know the journalists.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so might understand their biases that way.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so people feel like they know the person who is giving them the news.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's why shows like Megan Kelly take off, because you want to feel like you trust the person who's telling you what to think.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: So when you mention how people are getting their news from videos on Instagram and elsewhere or TikTok, does that mean you have to take a story, then boil it down to like a 30-second video and capture their attention the first five seconds?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: That is the advice you get as a reporter.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta, you gotta be quick with it.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I've been kind of slow to adopt to the video stuff.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the free press people are kind of kicking me to do that more.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely need to.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: But it's important.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's how people are getting their news.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're again, if you're not doing that, then you're kind of falling behind.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you you mentioned how you you you love your job.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's not only your vocation, but your avocation.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not like even having a real job.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I I take it, I know the answer to this, but would you recommend a career in journalism to young people who say are in high school now or in early years of college, should they pursue a career in that field?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you feel like you can do it and you've got what it takes, then absolutely.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: I will say it's a very competitive career.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: You got to be okay with pushing and pushing and pushing.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: For example, I'm working on this store, which I I'm trying to nail something.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I was making all these calls yesterday and I kept calling and calling, and these people wouldn't pick up, and then they finally and they go, man, you're pesky.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I know it's this is the job.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's embarrassing, but you got to be okay with texting somebody 15 times over the span of a few weeks, and then finally they respond.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: So you got to be a little bit of a crazy person, but the payoff is just so insane.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's nothing like that adrenaline rush of getting a scoop and doing it right.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so much fun.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that advice carries over to other fields too.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell young, I think sometimes young people think, well, I sent them an email and they didn't respond to it.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're looking for a job and I'll connect them to someone.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I sent them an email, they didn't respond.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, send them another email, send them an email a week or follow up another day, you know, and you gotta be pesky and yeah, aggressive, not annoying.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe a journalist can be annoying, but you gotta be a little annoying.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, if you if you see my text threads with some people that I try to get, it's it's a little embarrassing, but you gotta do it.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's what it takes.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I get inundated with emails.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone says, hey, just putting this back to the top of your inbox, I'm glad they did that.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: So peskiness is important.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, clearly your peskiness is paying off.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: You've broken stories.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know you broke one in Virginia in the attorney general's race.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you've broken the story we mentioned about involving Christy Gnome uh and many others.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, Audrey we're proud of what you're doing as a Novak alum.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And uh thank you for joining me today on Liberty and Leadership.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's been fun to talk to you, and we'll see come November how accurate we were in our conversation about what's going to happen on election day.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks so much for having me.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's been fun.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Liberty and Leadership Podcast.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a comment or question, please drop us an email at podcast at tfas.org.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And be sure to subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app and leave a five star review.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Liberty and Leadership is produced at Podville Media.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Roger Reim, and until next time, show courage in things large and small.