Latest / Beyond Limits With Olivia Marie / Why Legal Protection Is Nervous System Regulation — with Berkley Sweetapple

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Why Legal Protection Is Nervous System Regulation — with Berkley Sweetapple · Beyond Limits With Olivia Marie

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Beyond Limits, the podcast designed to unlock your highest potential with powerful strategies, energetic frequencies, and mindset shifts to create a limitless life.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Each episode dives deep into what it really takes to build a life and business beyond the ordinary standard.
• 0:19
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• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: You'll hear from Trailblazers who have shattered ceilings and know what it means to live beyond limits.
• 0:31
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• 0:34
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• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: More than a podcast, this is your gateway to building a limitless life and business.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Tune into the Beyond Limits podcast and step into all that is possible.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Beyond Limits podcast.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I am very excited because today's guest is going to open your eyes and really help you well live beyond limits, especially when it comes to the legal matters of your business.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And this is such an important topic that I don't feel is talked about enough.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe people think that they don't quote unquote need it unless you're like super big or like you're an eight-figure business.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: But our guest today is about to share the importance of actually probably thinking about it earlier than you think, and all of her fabulous expertise to dot your I's, cross your T's when it comes to not only protecting yourself, but also your business.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: So Berkeley, welcome to the show.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let us dive in by the first telling us a bit about you, kind of like what you do, your history, um, and then we'll dive into the importance of it all.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm a business and trademark attorney.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I work primarily with female coaches, consultants, entrepreneurs with online businesses.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I started my career in litigation, so like going to court, fighting over expensive legal mistakes that could have easily been avoided.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So now I love helping people proactively protect their business.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So let's go ahead and jump in right away to like the big trademarks.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like, I don't know, to me, like a couple years ago, people weren't doing trade and all of a sudden, and maybe it's just the people I surround, but everyone has like trademark, trademark, trademark.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Can you speak to like this trend, but also like the importance of maybe why so many people are and why someone might want to start trademarking and like the things we should be trademarking versus not and all of that?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so a trademark gives you the exclusive right to use your name or any like phrase or design in all 50 states in your industry.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people think like they own their business name because they have the Instagram handle or their domain or the LLC name.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: But the reality is, unless you have a federal trademark, you're kind of building your brand on rented land and anyone can swoop in and use it before you.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a really important legal step to take if you have like a business name you love or a tagline or a logo.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And the online space is so small that there's a lot of competition because it's limited real estate.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So the first to file typically has priority.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why there's been kind of a huge influx of trademarks since COVID and like the rise of online businesses, especially.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like this is something you should be thinking about kind of like at the beginning of your business, especially for your business name, or if you're going to be known as a certain like business name, like you should think about that now, kind of like double check and get that in a row.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not then years down the line, like what I did, looking back and be like, oh, and then having to see like who's taken what or what's going on with that.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this is something you should try to do like day one as you're thinking about because then you might choose a different name because that way you're not building towards something that you might have to change down the line.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So can you share kind of like whether it's something you've observed or client experiences where they've had to like whether it's rebrand or rechange everything because they didn't trademark the name soon enough?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: So ideally you make sure the name is available before you invest any money in like branding or you know, get too attached to it.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that doesn't always happen.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we get, you know, the the horse comes before the cart, or am I saying that right?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um so ideally, that's the order in which you want to follow things.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: We see a lot of rebrands happen.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, and a lot of times it happens like when someone comes to trademark their name because we do a comprehensive search before we file, we make sure there's nothing out there that's similar sounding, looking, meaning that could block their application.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times people are like ready to trademark the name, only you know, come to find out it's taken by someone else.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, other times it happens more like when they're just doing business with the name and someone sees that they're infringing on their trademark and sends them a cease and assist, and they come to us after they receive a cease and assist and then have to rebrand with a few weeks' notice.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like worst case scenario.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is especially important because as you grow your business, like sometimes whether it's your name or your program name, like it starts to have momentum behind it, right?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: You become known for maybe like a signature program or that thing, and then to have to change it.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, sure, I guess it's not the end of the world, but like if people know it by that name, then you have to like change it versus you've spent maybe like years building towards one specific name.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like a rebrand of like graphics and paying for that, but it's also to me the what you've built behind like the name of it, right?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: When we think of skins, like I don't know if skins have to change its name, like there's already so much momentum behind like skins to have to change it and be like, oh totally.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's like the lost cost that you can see, which is branding, but then there's the lost cost of like consumer recognition and consumer confusion, like and just like announcing to the world that you have to change your name because you didn't do your due diligence, which if you're in the business space at all, like we work with a lot of business coaches.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you're teaching women or entrepreneurs like how to make their business better, you kind of want to be doing that for yourself too.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I love that we're like touching on this because I feel like this is gonna open so many different people to like make sure now and start thinking about that.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you're also not building towards a name that you can potentially lose.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now, one thing you also brought to my attention is trademarking like your name or your Instagram in terms of like I'm called keep up with live, and like some other people might call something else.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I've also, maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, stories about like celebrities who didn't trademark their name and someone else trademarked their name and then had the rights to their name.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we'll just use Jennifer Lopez for thinking I don't think it's happened to her, but like I've heard stories, and then like someone else owns the rights to like Jennifer Lopez, and then you can't use your own like name because someone else trademarked your name.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, that's me, but it's like no, someone else owns it.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So can then you like speak?
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's a myth or whether they're good story I heard.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's crazy.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: One that comes to mind is Kylie Minogue versus Kylie Jenner.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lawsuit like over Kylie.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I I believe they settled, but you can trademark your full name, and you should.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've trademarked trademarked Berkeley Sweet Apple, even though it's a unique name, and I'm not like sure anyone's coming out with you know templates under that name, but it's just a good protection to have because someone could start something with a similar name, and then you can't use it, just like you couldn't use any other brand name.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to be thinking about like your company name, like maybe program names, but also your own name.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, if you're selling goods or services under your name, which a lot of people are, then absolutely.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Especially, I think, and I know you have a unique name, but even just the Kylie example.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there are like people in your industry who have maybe like there's two Kylie's, do you know what I mean?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: So then when people refer to a Kylie, you want to be the Kylie that like has that trademark, not the other Kylie.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because even when you're saying that, I feel like when I think of Kylie, I'm like, I would think Kylie Jenner, I forgot about Kylie Minot.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Poor Kylie Minot.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like that to me is so important.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: It is, yeah.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So apart from trademarks, what are some other like legal things we should be thinking about that you see that people either overlook or miss or get like kind of like the big things of like, oh, not enough people are paying attention to that you want to like either protect yourself from or get your ducks in a row?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll give you a quick list.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So trademarks, number one, um, having a business entity like an LLC or a corporation that protects your personal assets if your business were to ever get you know a judgment against it.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um copywriting original works of authorship.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: So like if you have a course protecting like your course videos, photos, PDFs, ebooks with copyright, it's the only way that you can sue and get damages if someone were to copy you.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Contracts are a big one.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: So client agreements or like terms of purchase if you're selling courses or digital products, um, website policies, like having website terms of use and privacy policy, and then having like necessary disclaimers, like earnings disclaimers, affiliate disclaimers, all of that.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I want to go into a few of those.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go into terms of purchase and like contracts, because I feel like where people get, I want to say screwed over a lot is not having not having a terms of purchase.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And this is something I remember, I mean, we've improved mine since working with you, but I've had one since like the early days, and I was like, no, like I knew, and I feel like people don't have it, and then they end up getting screwed over, or their terms of purchase isn't proper for what they need, it doesn't outline it properly, and then you're not protected, whether that comes to like refunds or whatever it is, like, and then to me, because I'm all about safety in the nervous system, that doesn't create safety in the nervous system to not be like legally protected.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel like that one of the best things you can do for your nervous system is be legally protected.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, can you speak to like maybe what people think about terms of purchase and like the importance of it and like how that really protects you and basically your system exhales because you know that you know if someone comes and like has bought your whole program, took the whole thing, and then they're like, oh, I want to refund, you don't have to like refund them the amount.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, legal protection in general, I speak about the energetics a lot about like a lot when it comes to just legally protecting your business because I would say nine out of 10 women who come to me say the same thing, and that is, I don't feel fully safe in my business.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't feel safe to put myself out there, and I'm holding back because I know I don't have these things in check and I'm afraid of getting copied or doing something wrong, and I want to do it the right way.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so not being legally protected shows up for them in the way they sell and the way they present their offers.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And when you are protected, you do feel safe against things like chargebacks, and that's where terms of purchase comes in.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: So chargebacks are a big reason why you want to have a terms of purchase, but they also protect like your intellectual property.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, just basically laying out your deliverables so that you can prove if you ever did get a chargeback that you've given everything you're supposed to give in the program or course, whatever it is, um, and that you have like evidence to show that they agreed to this.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, even for something like it could be something small as like a$30 ebook or like a 30,000 pay and full.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: To me, like you should be protected across the board in your business.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now, just for everyone listening, what's the difference between like where you're talking about copywriting your work and intellectual property?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because from what I understand, there is a slight difference.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Could you explain that for everyone?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, copyright is a type of intellectual property.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, intellectual property is kind of like the umbrella term for like trademarks, copyright, patents.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so copyright is a type of intellectual property, but there's other types of intellectual property.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: So trademarks protect like any word phrase or design that identifies the source of your goods or services.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: So if you think of Nike, like the word Nike, the tagline just do it, the swoosh.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas copyright protects like the sales page copy or like the photos of the Nike shoe.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Any original work of authorship.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, because I just want to make sure everyone's really educated and clear in this episode.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: If I had like intellectual property, I think most people assume that because it's yours and you create it, you're automatically protected.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is that true just because it's yours?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you need to have things like the terms of privileges, etc., to protect your intellectual property of things you are selling, whether it's an ebook, a course, et cetera?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: So copyright protection is automatic.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: The caveat is you can't do anything about it unless you've registered the copyright with the US Copyright Office.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't sue under the federal like, what?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you have automatic copyright.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you create it, you own the copyright.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: But if somebody copies you, you want to be entitled to like the most amount of money you can be entitled to.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that comes when you copyright something.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when you register it, you're entitled, and you do so within three months of publication.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're entitled to statutory damages, which could be up to like$30,000 per violation and attorney's fees.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's important to like leverage a better settlement, even if you don't sue.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because the first thing that you know, I'll ask as an attorney if someone sends my client like a cease and desist for copying them is like, okay, can you send me over like the registration number?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'd like to see, you know, where you register this.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you have a terms of purchase, that's added protection because you have a breach of contract claim against anyone who's like reproducing your content, your content.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that's important to have.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is so important.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I know it's nuanced, but like if people need to listen to this episode twice, like really make sure you understand this nuance because it's so important.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like what you just said about if it's not copyrighted, then you don't have as much claim.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like someone might think that, oh, if they copy word for word, I automatically have the and it's like, no, like you need these extra steps to make sure you're protected so that you can also like get the most, but you also have, I guess, more like clout behind, like, well, no, because what if you send you know a cease and desist and someone like you on the other side is like, well, show me the copyright number, and you're like, uh I don't have it, and it's like, well, good luck.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's like, well, like, then I would be at a disadvantage, right?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: So this is so important.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you're bringing up these like little nuances that people don't know but really need to think about.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is like the litigator, the former litigator in me, which is like, you have the law, but like what can you actually do about it?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like so it's good to know.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: But this is also why I love someone like you, like who is an expert, because to me, this is like all this legal stuff.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, me having to know it, I don't want to know it.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: I want to like have the trust and faith in like someone an expert like you who can protect us and like share with us and like have our back when it comes to it, so we're not trying to like figure it out on our own.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we have terms of purchase, we have like protecting against refunds and all of that.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: There was something else, wasn't the website when what was it?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Contract yes, yes.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So contracts are similar to a terms of purchase.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: A terms of purchase, like you accept when you check out.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: A contract is it's similar, it's the agreement with somebody else.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have, you know, if you do one-on-one coaching or you have clients, you want to make sure you have a clear client agreement that just sets forth like expectations, deliverables, who owns what, cancellation policies, that's big.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you terminate the agreement?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: How much notice do you have to give, um, refund policies, all of that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, how is a contract different from like a terms of purchase?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the way it's formatted.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, a contract will be like something you send for a signature, typically.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then terms of purchase is like the agreement that somebody is signing or you know, acknowledging when they check out on your website.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it is a contract.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: So do you feel like you need both, or it would depend probably on the circumstance?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: It just like depends on the circumstance, it depends like the format of how you're having people check out.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: This brings up something that I really want to touch on that I feel is probably one of the most common things that happen in the industry are people not only defaulting on payment plans, but ghosting their payment plans.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Can we dive into this and like how the terms of purchase andor contract kind of like protects you, not only by chargebacks, but like people ghosting from paying for something, a service that they received?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like this is like also where a lot of the lack of safety comes from in people is people like ghosting on their payments and then just like not responding to you ever again.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have this happen to me, people ghost, and I'm like well, it's a lot easier to like pursue a claim against someone if you have a written contract, whether that's just sending a demand letter saying, here's your contract, like you've defaulted on your payment, you owe this amount by this date, please pay it or we're going to sue you, or actually like suing on the contract, it's a lot easier to have like a written contract rather than just alleging like a verbal agreement or like showing an email.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: So basically it allows even like for if that were to happen, you to pursue it in a way where you're more likely to like actually get the money that you're owed.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, because you also mentioned like cancellation policies in like either a terms or contract, if there's like a no refund so you must complete all payments, they are like legally bound to pay them, and that's why you can pursue that and and sue them or send them to collections, etc.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Correct?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, wonderful.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: I hope everyone listening is just like I think sometimes people think like it's not like the fun vibe part of like the business, it's not like creating a graphic, but like legal stuff is just it's so necessary for like the structure and for you to feel safe, and especially as it growing, like it may not feel glamorous, but you I think will feel so good when you know those like I's are dotted, T's are crossed.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: There we go, that expression.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: To have all of this in a row and to know that like you're you're locked in because I think so many much of the fear people have is like you said, they're not protected, or they've had maybe bad experiences in the past, and things have happened where they didn't have the protection in place and they didn't have these legal things in place, and they end up unfortunately like getting screwed over or or losing that or not being able to pursue it, whatever it is.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: But if they were to just maybe do some of this, then you would be like fine.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it takes the stress off.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it like eases your mind.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would love to think that trademarks are glamorous because when you own your when you own it, it is right.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I mean?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like people, I think sometimes put off like the legal do it now.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's like one glimmer of you know, of excitement, and that is when you get your trademark registration, and the rest is like just proactive, you feel better when you do it, and you're avoiding expensive legal mistakes and like building confidence that you're treating your business like a business.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're you're right.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like you should make that like trademarks or sexy, something like that, because there is a difference when you own it and like you have the trademark, it's like an extra little oomph behind you.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like this is my company.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, touch this.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I have a trademark that is called it's in my trademark era, and we're making merch.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll send everyone hats.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I love it.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I need I need now.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of like the importance of trademarks, where do you see like there's a line in terms of kind of like I guess over trademarking, or like I also want to talk about trademarking common phrases?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I remember this was something I had a lot of questions about.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: People like trademarking like common words or phrases that are like words you would use in the everyday.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but kind of like going off the rails to trademark taglines or this or that, and it's like, where is that that line in terms of like okay, do we trademark every single thing we've ever touched and own and tagline?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because that can be like, oh my god, are we gonna put TM besides or R besides everything?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where how do you view this?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So trademarks are an investment, they're not like cheap.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to trademark anything that you would be upset if you had to change that you're like putting money behind and branding and effort into building something around, like your name, your taglines, your logos.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're not actually allowed to trademark everything.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So like a phrase that you want to put on a t-shirt just as like a decorative kind of like they call it like merely ornamental, you can't trademark it.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: It has to be like, it has to indicate the source of your goods or services.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: So like if you think of Nike and like the tagline, just do it.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: When you think of just do it, like you think of Nike, you know, it's not just like a saying they put on a shirt.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like instrumental to their brand.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: So where we see this come in with like apparel companies, it's it's it's like the name you put on the tag of your shirt, you know, that rather than just like a word across the t-shirt.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So there's things that you can trademark, there's things that you can't trademark.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: You can trademark common words.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, like if you think of what's an example, like dove is just it's a word, you know, and dove is trademarked for soap.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's not trademarked for like selling doves.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like you couldn't have the dove store, you know, and be a store that sells doves.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: That would be hard to trademark.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go into that also that little nuance about like the trademarks and how they apply to maybe like different categories.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just gave the dove example.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't have dove soap, but you could have, I don't know, I know there's also dove cleaners.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably why there's also dove cleaners or like dove, you can have water, because the dove is maybe only trademarked for like soaps or whatever their category is.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So can you speak to that little nuance as well?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: So when you trademark, you trademark in different classes of goods or services.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't own the word across the board.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's why there can be like a um Delta Faucet and a Delta Airlines because they're in different categories.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: No consumer is going to be confused between the two.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in terms of like not being able to register something that's descriptive or generic, like if you think of Apple, like the Apple store, like Apple, they sell computers.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's very, it's arbitrary when it comes to like what they're selling, the word Apple.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: But if they were a store that sold apples, that would be descriptive and that wouldn't be allowed.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can't like own the name of like you couldn't own the name the shoe store, you know, and sell shoes.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that makes sense.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, this is also, I think, important for people to think about, but also even coming back to within the industry, I feel like there's so many like people doing similar things, like that there's so many names that you're gonna use similar words.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's probably lots of people who use the word manifest or whatever it is.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna want to trademark your own unique thing as soon as possible because there's only so many combinations of like manifest or magic or you know, meant for millions or whatever it is that if you own that, that's gonna be better if you do that early on.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like we're just like always looping back to like get them early.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, especially in the online space, like manifest millions, like anything with the word business in it, you know, like it's gonna be a crowded space.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be hard to find a name that's available.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but trademarks like come and go too.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you have a trademark as long you can have a trademark forever as long as you renew it, but you do have to renew it and prove that you're still using it at year five, at year 10, and then every 10 years after that.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so there is like a the initial is five years and then every 10 after that.
• 25:29
  unknown: Okay.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now you also mentioned logos, which we haven't touched on yet.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Can we like touch on trademarking logos?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm guessing it's like the Nike Swish, like that swish is very specific.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk about that in like the realm of logo and how that's maybe different from like a name or a tagline?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: So there's two types, well, there's other types of applications, but the most common ones are a word mark and a design mark.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: So a word mark is just like the words in plain text and font.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a design mark has like design elements.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: It could have color, it can have a design, um, where you're gonna actually like upload the PDF, you know, or video, like photo format of the mark and register that specific design.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: So typically, if somebody has like a business name, for example, we would recommend that they do the business name as a word mark before they do the logo, or like simultaneously do both because the the word mark gives the broadest protection and protects in any kind of font or color.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: But then the design mark, like if you have um like a very distinct design, like we have a client who it's like rainbow and clouds, and she was getting ripped off.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like the design was getting ripped off.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we trademark that to protect the design elements as well as her business name.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what I also see, and this may not fall under the design, is sometimes people copying other people's like style or aesthetic.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is that something in terms of like I guess like the branding itself?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like specifically Rainbows and Mist, but like there's one person that uses a lot of hot pink, and then other people use hot pink to try to like be like that person.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would that person, if they wanted, could they have like their own protection around like they're using this type of you know, hot pink branding around a color or a style, or is that like not a thing?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's difficult to protect.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: There is like trade dress, which protects like a product design.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: But like what you're describing as just kind of like similar branding isn't going to probably cut it, unless it's like a logo or like the actual name itself, yeah, or like the style of like an hermaise bag, you know, like a Birken bag.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, can we touch on that for a second?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I love all the questions.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Can you so does and maybe this because all they're all the fake Birkins?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's like a Walmart fake Birken or something.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Can you trademark like this style?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like some sometimes people might have physical product lines, right?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Listening to the podcast, may have a physical business.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Can you trademark like the the product like design, like a bag design?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm pretty sure the Birken bag it does have a trade dress, and there might be something going on with Walmart, or if there isn't, there maybe soon.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you can, if you had a physical thing, like a design like that, or maybe like I don't know, I'm looking at headphones, like a physical design of a headphone, you could trade dress is what it's called, the actual item as well.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: I guess my question is.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's like sound marks also.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, can we talk about that?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's just go.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go into everything.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: What is a sound mark?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because I feel like we we should we should be aware, right?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: The more I can like know about these things and everyone listening can know, we can think about these things ahead of time.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: So what is this?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to think of like a famous sound mark, like a football, I'm like not into sports, but there's like a famous sound that you would recognize.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm blanking, but you can protect little jingles that like identify your brand.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: How is the sound mark different from like intellectual property?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a type of intellectual property.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a type of you know, it's a type.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: So would that be like a type of trademark?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: A sound mark is a type of trademark, which is a type of IP.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like an artist would have you know their songs, that would be that would be copyright.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, copyright would protect the songs, but if you think of like do do do do like that identifies the company, where if you hear the sound, it identifies that company.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I exactly, yeah.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna Google it after this and give you some examples.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: But this is so important.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'd rather like be aware and like everyone listening to think about these things when you're whatever you're doing in your brand, sound, visual, name, like the more you can be aware of, the more you can kind of plan ahead and and be legally protected and then feel safe in your system because you're legally protected.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, regulated.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we've touched on a lot of the different areas when it comes to legal things.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: What do you feel like we haven't touched on that is something that like either boils your blood or really bothers, or like you just wish women knew this, or like if there's a nuance or a big thing that you're like, oh, I really like trademarks are the big one.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: And like, not even just like you need to trademark everything when you're you know creating your offer suite, but like making sure they're available, like checking before you build these things, like checking that you're not infringing on someone else's trademark.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: So trademarks are what really get my blood boiling.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I would say like things that like things that I see missed a lot are website policies.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: So like not having a privacy policy, which is legally required, not seeing a terms of use, or seeing one that's like clearly copied and pasted from someone else where you're like, this doesn't work with your business.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there are like there are fines for not having one.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, same thing goes with disclaimers, like affiliates who are just like promoting something but don't have an affiliate disclaimer, don't disclose the partnership.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like the FTC is really cracking down on that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that's important.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just making sure you're in compliance with all of the laws.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's a lot of like little things to be aware of.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: I remember even from like back when I was doing more like healthy recipes and all that, and brand deals, like the disclaimer, the affiliate, or like it being an ad, like that was so huge because like you need to disclose these things.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: And some people listening might also, you know, do the affiliate or or kind of like brand deals like that.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not disclosing that it's an ad or you're not disclosing that it's sponsored, or that you're an affiliate, that also opens you up again.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we don't want to feel opened up to potentially unsafe legal situations.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: We want to feel safe.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another like little one, or even like your website, like you said.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: I know we had to update mine because mine was definitely not up to date.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: But like these are little things that maybe you weren't aware of before this episode, but now that you're aware of, you're like, okay, let's make sure that that's all in a row.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Even something I didn't even know about podcast release forms.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks to you, I now have one.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, and it's funny because no one, I've been on guests on podcasts, no one's ever asked me to sign this is a thing.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, thank God for Berkeley.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love signing my own my own agreements.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yes.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: But like this, this is why it's important.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I never I just didn't know when you're talking to me, like, what?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: No one's ever asked me to sign one, no one's ever asked for one.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So this is also something that like if you have a podcast, like you should have that for guests.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's important.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's we have the luxury, I wouldn't say the luxury, but like we see everything that goes wrong.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: So we, you know, try to educate our clients on like, even though it may not ever happen to you, and we hope that it doesn't happen to you, at least you're protected, worst case scenario, and you can feel good about booking guests and not having them come back and say, you can't use this, you know, or like we want to be paid for this because it happens.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I bet I've had some interesting experiences that I won't touch on that.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad I now have a release form for you.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Are there any other little things?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I brought the podcast release that I've because I know we've touched on so much that little things that like, oh, I forgot about also like that little oh, also I think having different um terms of purchase, I guess, for different things.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about, you know, you want one if you're having events or retreats, that's going to look different than your your generic one.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe people are thinking, oh, I can just have one that I slap on everything and that's fine, but like not necessarily.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: So can we talk about maybe the difference between like an in-person thing or like why you want to be protected differently around that?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's what I was I was going to bring up, the event and retreat terms of purchase.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're having people in person, there's all kinds of other liability issues that could come up, like physical liability, like people could have an allergy to something you're serving, you know, alcohol might be involved.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's all these things that you need to protect yourself against, with like in-person, um, tra if travel's involved, um, if you're hosting an event, refund policy is going to be different than it would be for like a one-on-one coaching terms of purchase.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: So having terms of purchase for like every offer that you're selling so that you can match it up if there is an issue and just be like this is clearly outlined with what's being provided and our terms.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like, you know, just having these in different situations across the board, whether it's like the retreat or event or like the podcast or one-on-one or terms, like it just allows you also, if it was happening to you, to like stay calm because you just refer to like the contract, the terms of purchase.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's no like there's no arguing, it's not like ambiguous, it's just like, no, these are these are the terms, and so it's just that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like even just having that kind of allows you to be more regulated because you're just neutral, because you're just obeying by like the terms of purchase that we're agreed to.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if someone were to come at you, you'd be like, Well, no, like these are the terms of purchase that you signed and you agreed to, and they can copy and paste a section or like refer to section, blah blah blah.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then to me, I'm like, that's light, whether it's you're doing it or your team's doing it, like to me that avoids like awkwardness, it avoids like the stress and the awkwardness of being like, Well, this I thought was you know clearer.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you could just point to it and it's easy.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: I love this.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Where can everyone find you?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because everyone needs to follow you.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: I know you also have a store where people can get like the podcast release form, they can like go all in with you and get the full like legal protection stuff.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, where can people find you?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Learn and get all the things so they legally protect their business so they can feel safe and they can feel regulated.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm mostly on Instagram at BerkeleySweet Apple.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have a template store, so where you can download, like fill-in-the-blank contract templates or terms of purchase.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then I also have my law firm where we work one-on-one with women, with like contracts, trademarks.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: We have legal VIP days where we do everything in a day.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and yeah, you can just DM me or send me a voice note.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty accessible.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't recommend like following her enough and getting all of this sorted.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: It is like the biggest breath of fresh air.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna leave all her links and all of that down below.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: At least go to the store, get your templates, get everything organized.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you're like me and you're like, I don't want to think about this, just go all in and get her to handle all of your amazing legal stuff.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, Berkeley, thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was an honor.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I know so many women are going to feel so much safer and better in their business having all of their legal stuff taken, like essentially taken care of, so that they can go back to focusing on like their zone of genius in the business.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you having me.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.