Latest / Open Tabs / 🎧 Algorithms are out, blogs are in

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🎧 Algorithms are out, blogs are in · Open Tabs

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to OpenTabs,
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: our Vice Weekly Substack Live where we chat through things,
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: taking up space in our tabs, our feeds, and our brains.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Melissa.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: And hi, Megan.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: I missed you guys.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: We missed you more.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: We were saying Megan helps hold us accountable to this.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: We need an accountability buddy.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: If I don't have an accountability buddy for things, it's not getting good.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's tough.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we have a couple of very fun stories to chat through.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: So first one is about the comeback of the personal blog.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be specific here.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is like a blog, not a substack.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's an early 2000s inspired personal blog slash website.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's particularly taking off with young women and they're congregating largely
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: on TikTok under the hashtag, hashtag girl blogging.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's crazy.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Google searches for how do I start blogging have jumped 4,500% in the last month.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And TikTok posts using hashtag girlblogger have grown 343% this year.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: I just think this is like so fun and interesting.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it seems the big draw of a personal blog over a Substack is the personalization
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: that they can do on their own website.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they're like,
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're using GIFs,
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: they're changing the background color,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: they're like using coding to add video and images and change the font
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: and really going all out.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it kind of reminds me of what people used to be able to do on MySpace,
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: creating their own little digital world.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Is it, really quick before we dive into all of the analysis of this,
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: is it on like a specific site that they're doing it or is it just like...
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I guess Google has a platform like Google... Blog or something.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that they're using.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's probably easier than like, you know, an easier way to set up a personal website.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it was really interesting.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's interesting that like, They're going through the effort.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like they're curating their own personal site and it feels like an extension of blogging.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I think it's very fun.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I also think it's fun that they're like leaning into coding.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: Karlie Kloss must be so happy.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is what she was working towards.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is what Code with Karlie was all about.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Personal blogs.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think, like,
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: we always talk about owned platforms versus social when we think
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: of digital strategy.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: the rule of thumb is always, like,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: social is where you, like,
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: rent space and you want to, like,
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: capture the attention of community, but, like,
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: ideally you bring people back to your owned platforms,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: so platforms that you have control over that are not, like, affected by algorithm.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: I will just say,
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: personally,
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: and we've talked about this so many times,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: on here and in general,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I do feel a sense of dissatisfaction,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: especially in building my Instagram feed in that I just think there's
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: so many limitations in that platform.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: If the spirit of this is a bit of tapping into somebody's inner scrapbooker
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: or photo album maker or historian,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: I
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: feel like this has been something that reminds me of high-quality short-form video.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of come up.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's nothing new.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's live video also.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's nothing new, but then culture will bring it to the forefront for some reason.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that this idea makes so much sense.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a matter of...
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be interesting to see how it evolves because I think from
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: a creative standpoint, this makes so much sense to me.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: It fulfills things that I think social media makes you feel a little empty.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like building your own house versus, again, going to a club or something.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: But I think it's also, like, can it sustain?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: And, like,
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think so many people in culture are so used to,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: like, the immediate, like, dopamine hit of likes and shares and whatever.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, oftentimes blogging is very lonely.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just don't know what will happen or how do you create an ecosystem out of that?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, do we want that?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's really cool.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just dropped in the chat this one that like stood out to me from the article
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: and it's Glam Not Feelings.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: She uses Blogspot and she has formatted it.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: It looks like MySpace page.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can say she is online right now and she has her glam bots and they're her fans
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: and followers and can click on their profiles and send them a message.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: She's created her own little ecosystem.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And her blogs are quite short.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're not super long, but it's so stylistic.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can see how much effort she's put into this site.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And she has different sections.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: She has gossip, girl talk, advice.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like...
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know we were talking about double youth, but this has the feeling of a teen...
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Only digital.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it seems like in the article the sentiment was not so much nostalgia
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: but more feeling a bit stifled by The commercialization of social media
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: and ads everywhere, feeling like they can't control their feeds.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a little, they're creating little pockets that they can fully control.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think it is a good point to how long will this sustain.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be interesting to watch.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think it could potentially sustain and I think there will be some people
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: who become bloggers and we have a standout of like this person has
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: a very successful blog with a ton of traffic
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: and this is actually something I predicted of like destination websites
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: where people are tired of the algorithm and memes you mentioned this
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: when you were saying why this is appealing and in addition to being tired of
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: the algorithm and what it's serving you I think people are tired of being expected
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: to serve the algorithm Yeah.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need my post to do that.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what you want.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's on you.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: Or like TikTok is always like, you could get more views for $12.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get you 60,000 views.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I don't care to get more views.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like I posted it.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to rewatch it.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't matter to me if this becomes a viral thing.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think people are kind of tired of the expectation that they're
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: a professional creator and a blog gives you a space to be creative
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: without being tied to those metrics that the algorithm is pushing.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's, like, a fatigue happening.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I also agree, like, that idea, Megan, too, of, like, not everyone is meant to be a creator.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that might be, like, one form.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I mean,
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: maybe this is, like,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: sort of a shift where people are recognizing there's more of,
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: like, a middle of, like, what What other types of creators are there?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's... You know, I think there's...
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the coolest creators,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: honestly, to me,
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: are the ones that,
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: like, work full-time and then, like, do, like, a passion project on the side.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's why, like,
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: those are just so good because it's,
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: like, this is where I really want to be spending my time or, like, this is my fun...
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't, like, my job.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is, like, my fun thing.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, I think...
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is the result of, like, a...
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think the other site we haven't really touched on also that it reminds me of is Tumblr.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like Tumblr, I don't know, they were really on to something.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: It felt so much more like a convergence of a blog meet social media.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like Tumblr is going to be making a comeback just
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: because I feel like fanfiction is having such a moment right now.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at least when I was on Tumblr, it was like all fanfiction at the time.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen Tumblr pop up on my TikTok feed a lot.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they're doing like dreamy edits of The guy from the Resident Evil movie that just came out.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like so Tumblr.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: The edit they put together and comments were like,
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: oh, I need to, maybe I should reactivate my old Tumblr.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like people are just over I think it's the same thing that we talk about
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: with reality TV that after a certain amount of time,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: the show becomes instead of being about their actual lives,
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: about the struggles and experience of being a reality star.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not particularly interesting.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like a similar thing happens with content creators
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: when they leave full time jobs to be full time creators.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: They've lost what made them interesting or different in the first time.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I was going to say?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like this is like
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Megan's analysis is what is making me think of this.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like if you were a social platform now or you were Tumblr,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: like obviously it's like there's a signal that has happened
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: where it's like people are craving something.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like the old school way of doing it back to analog,
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: feeling a little bit more is what people are craving.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: How do you reconcile that with advertising?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can you make it,
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: is there,
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: is it like,
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: does someone buy Tumblr and like plug it in somehow, which would further ruin it?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, does it get plugged into Instagram?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't you feel like Tumblr is Instagram,
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: it's like the same,
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: it's like,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: It could be Instagram but expanded and like a, you know, something like that.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Or I think that the challenge has been everyone has moved toward video
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: because video ad role was like, you know, where the money can be made.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So like people are getting fragmented onto their own blogs.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's not helpful.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: How do we, you know what I mean?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think this idea of like a blog Social platform is interesting.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Blog meets social platform.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or how do you connect it?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: So there's something in there to me when I think about it.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think that what social media has done to advertising is a bit of an anomaly.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: And we're so in it that I think we've accepted it.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: But if you zoom out, really,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: it's kind of they've made themselves a middleman between the I think this is a way
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: for creators to get around that middleman.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: If someone has a successful blog and they can show you their platform numbers
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: and look at how much traffic they're driving,
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: you can make a deal directly with them and like put something directly on their blog
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: that feels more authentic and less tied to the algorithm
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: because that's something we even know of like,
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: Sponsored content doesn't do as well unless the advertiser puts dollars behind
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: the sponsored content.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like you have to pay the creator and then you also have to pay to boost the content.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas if this creator is like, look, I'm getting 10,000 daily views.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Daily unique views, you're going to get that whether or not the algorithm decides to push it.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think this could be super beneficial for brands and creators who actually want
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: to do cool stuff.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it won't scale as easily as campaigns do when you can like send products
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: to 100 influencers and they all post on social and it blankets it.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it will have deeper impacts because it feels like
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: a more authentic recommendation from your favorite creator.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like you guys talked about the Olive Garden influencer guy last week.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like I could see him having a blog about Olive Garden that people actually visit.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then he could do other pasta and soup and salad related spawn con
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: that like makes sense for that audience without being like,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: is this going to do well in the algorithm?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love this.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Emma, you know what we need to do is a once to watch of like bloggers.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: That'll be next month.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love that idea.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there is just something about going to a blog or a website like that.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a deeper level of engagement.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're actively seeking them out.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Last week I listened to, I think it was the Corporate Gossip podcast.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're interested in the behind the scenes of kind
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: of like corporate scandals, it's a very good lesson.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And last week they did a deep dive on Dave Portnoy and Barstool
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: and how Barstool started as an online,
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was actual physical newspaper at first,
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: but then just a blog slash website specifically for the Boston sports space.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And when he first started working with ESPN,
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: they were amazed by how often Barstool Readers were coming back to
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: the website every day and how eager ESPN was to partner
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: with this very regional website because people were logging into Barstool,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was upwards of seven times a day, which,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, is crazy.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that makes sense to me, especially for college aged kids.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like when I was in college, there was more of a culture of like a unified trending tab.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, have you seen this?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas now it's so much your algorithm.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas when there's a site like Barstool or when I was in college,
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: it was BuzzFeed where you could go and it's like, what's at the top of BuzzFeed?
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that this is something that people are looking for monocultures
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: and like kind of like watering holes that they can get around.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_02: And blogs could provide that.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's curated, but it's also more uniform than an algorithm, which is so tailored to you.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what's interesting is, like, makes me think of, like, again, M.T.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Deco.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what do we do?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because we really leaned hard into our blog for a long time.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's just hard to, like...
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Quantify the time and effort.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just,
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just really hard to like,
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: whereas at least on like Substack, it feels like it's just more easily discoverable.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: What I'm seeing in the blogs that Emma is sending us is more like curation of the internet.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas I feel like in the past, blogs were more just like net new content.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think your blog is especially a lot of like Original thinking and content,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: but not as much like agritory curation.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like the one she sent in the chat, there's like my favorite songs, what I'm into right now.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's also what people are craving is kind of a POV
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: into how others are situated to the world and the internet because we are so siloed
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: in our own algorithms that they're wanting to kind of branch out of that.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think for M.T.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Deco, I would say lean more into kind of just like Even what you're doing with Swell
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: where you're like Amazon affiliate links are going crazy.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like I think people are looking for stuff like that of like you get a kind of a read
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: on the person,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: who they are,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: their aesthetic,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_02: and then you also get their curatory lens on what they're listening to,
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: what they're watching, all of those other things.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'll see.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe stay tuned.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think you guys should add top stories and add these things that Emma pulls every week.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: That could be a fun way that I could see people being like, let me go see what M.T.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Deco is thinking about this week.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good idea.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, TBD.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Stop coming up with the ideas, mate.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: Stop giving me work.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, next topic that I wanted to chat with you guys about is CoStar.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: The astrology app is starting a dating app, ReadMe, that is targeting book lovers.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's designed specifically for readers and matching people based on their book preferences.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: It also will do like if you have mutual friends.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: So connecting people who have based on web platforms.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: You fill out a quiz.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: So they said what makes this different from other dating apps is how extensive
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: the questions it asks you is.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like it's on an owned platform.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you fill in friend info.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: so in addition to like concentric friend circles and friends of friends,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: it also goes into your communication styles, your beliefs.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: To generate a personality-style report,
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: which sounds similar to what CoStar does with your astrology report.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Notably,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: astrology is not on README yet,
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: which I was like,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: if you're going through all this trouble and asking a million questions,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: ask for their astrology.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: You might as well.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's like very cool.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's all built out by what genres are you reading?
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Critiques I've seen are that the genres are not extensive enough.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe they will be expanding that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's really interesting.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we've talked a lot about book talk and book fluencers over the years.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think with people who are like bookish online,
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm fascinated by how Big being a book reader is of their identity online.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: And this feels like an extension of that.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's very interesting.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: That is interesting.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm also curious,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: and I'm going to play around with it because I don't know if I agree with
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: the premise of like,
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: if you like similar books,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: you should also be dating because I
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: don't know about you guys.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to say this.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: All the guys I dated,
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to read the books that they're reading, like war biographies or sci-fi.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because I do use books to vet people.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: What are you into?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: But if a guy was like, I really love Elena Ferrante, I'd be like, interesting.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've never met a guy like that and liked him.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: So is it similarity or is it like compatibility?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like those are two different things, but I'm excited to see.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I also just, men don't tend to read as much.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I can see this app having a problem where they've got tons of female users and
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: a handful of male users.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that'll be interesting to see.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's a deficit or,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: like, there's opportunity for, like, male readers that, like, out there.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm, like,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: in the way that,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: like, the romanticity genre has, like, completely lit women on fire, you know?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, for when new books come out, like, I have, like, a whole list of stuff.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I have to read Calamity Club.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I just, I'm finishing The Thoroughbreds, which is, like, the second...
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Of this two-part Alan Hildebrand series, and she did it with her daughter.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so funny.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Jeff reads one book a year.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, do you even know how to read?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think, I mean, it is a very good point, Meg.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if they, like, figured out if certain genres are compatible with each other.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, she reads romanticity, but he reads sci-fi.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's, yeah.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, there you go.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: To me, this more makes sense as, like,
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: a book club matching thing, but I haven't actually played with it, so I'll see.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: I did go with a friend to a, like,
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: mixer at the bibliotech,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: which is a bookstore during the day and then a bar at night.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it was just women.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: There were, like, maybe five guys there, but it was just women.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they were also, like,
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to lie, like,
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: a little pretend, like,
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes guys who are,
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: like, they're trying, they were trying to come across as, like, very intellectual.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Literary.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I read, like, my favorite book is on the road and da-da-da-da-da.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know what the – I just don't – I don't know.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think I like the concept.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, even when you threw this idea out, I mean, you were talking about it.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, we should definitely talk about that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, obviously we, like, talk about dating –
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the idea of thinking outside the box is good, but I don't know.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like books could be a component,
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: but it's such a different behavior pattern between men and women on how they read
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: that I just don't know if that's the right thing.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: You have to do it in real life.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's an interesting time to be starting a new dating app
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: because I feel like sentiment
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: that I've seen online has been very anti-dating apps right now.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: And people think we've commercialized every aspect of being a human being,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: including our love lives.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of young people are just burned out and it's another app you have
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: to deal with.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I included this in a Cultural Gems, I think, two weeks ago.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: But dating apps have been reporting, like, not so great numbers among Gen Z in the past quarter.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I think it's like people are very burned out.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny, two sides of the coin of personal blogs making a comeback.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Than an offline hobby being used to create an online dating app to match people together.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a great concept and I think theoretically it should work.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: But then you add the reality of men today and it's like there's such
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: a complicating factor to this that I don't think that this app solves for
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: the problems with dating today.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's very easy to find people to go on dates with.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: Then it's like, okay, do they have emotional skills?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Are they good at communicating?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm interested in the more like personality test angles of this app.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm excited to see like how much that factors in.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe books is just being used as a hook because if there's also like astrology
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: and personality underlying all of this,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: the book part could just be a marketing,
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: a marketing play because books are so hot right now.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I, yeah, I don't know.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So interesting,
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: like, like dating is just like,
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I feel like it, it still goes back to me.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like some of the most successful relationships,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: including my own, have been like a friend literally setting up.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I don't know, it's like, or, you know, somebody knows somebody.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And like, that's how I feel like it goes.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just so interesting on how even like the target of like what,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: like a shared understanding of what the end goal is.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what do you want?
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's like so much of it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's like, yes, in your first conversation, you should talk about if you want kids or not.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, first conversation.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want out of life?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of life do you want to live?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so it just feels like the target is moving.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: People don't feel as strongly about marriage or they don't feel like they know
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: where they want to be in life or they might want to be traveling or they don't want
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: to feel so secure in certain ways
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: that I feel like American traditional values have been.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I just feel like it makes it just a really like, I don't know, it's a hard time.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a very hard time to like find somebody to build a life with
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: because you do, it's hard too.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's like,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think, I mean,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know a lot of people talk about it,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: but it's like you sign up,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: but then suddenly you're like, okay,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: like now, I mean,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I just hit my 10 year anniversary of being married and you're like,
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: it's just like a different,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: it's like, You know, my husband like chews his food and I'm like, oh, the sound.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: I hate the sound of people chewing.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or like we're,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: right now with our kids, like my oldest is, you know, big sports guys we talk about.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so now he's right at the cusp of like tournament teams.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: So every weekend is a tournament away, like away.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not fair to the other two who have things going on too.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: So our family's just divided.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I haven't seen, I didn't see Jeff all weekend.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then yesterday Wally had baseball practice, which is like 25 minutes away from here.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just easier for him to go with Wally.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I have the other two.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was just like, we're, I'm not ordering food today.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like I am not making dinner.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have had two of them all weekend.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: They're so cute.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're three and six, but I was working and then they were like, can we go to the park?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, ah, it's just, I don't know.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, I can also see like, if this isn't like what
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: one wants in their life too.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: I, I even think like back to like my twenties and I was like dating and everything.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, There's just this, like, insane pressure.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, clamoring.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, and then the anxiety of, like, oh, my God, someone got engaged.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you're just like, ah.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then suddenly you're happy for everyone.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're spending tens of thousands of dollars on all these other people.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just such a, like, what roller coaster did I get on and not know?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: I know what you're talking about, though, is different than the dating app's goal.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like dating apps, the goal is not marriage.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: The goal is dates.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's part of, I think, why a lot of people aren't on them.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: if you want a date,
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: you can download it, go on a date, and then you can get off of it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's very transactional.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the transaction is not leading up to building a life, like you're saying.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's building up to meeting up in person.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: To me, I'm like, I don't even
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: want to date.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, every person I dated or
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: like dated seriously,
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is an interview to like marry me.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: So Virgo of you.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: So what?
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Virgo of you.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Date for fun?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is business.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's kind of what they're trying on a date.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Even now.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's for the crazy extroverts.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I have a friend like that, and she thinks it's fun.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you think first dates are fun?
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you want to do on a friend date.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want to get to the point where you can just lay around.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's the goal.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's what everyone, Netflix and show, like that's what you want to do, you know?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think just no moment one can relax.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I have to say.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think dating apps are designed for kind of
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: the current avoidant transactional culture of romance.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why they're not working.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like I said, you can put a coat of books on this and like it makes it more interesting.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know if it's really actually solving for any real world friction
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: or problems in dating and romance.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: So...
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you could argue as to what should be done.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to give away my free idea here if someone wants to build it,
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: but like, It's all about vetting.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the next dating app that will be huge and compete with the Tinders
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: and Bumbles and hinges of the world will be more like members only,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: kind of like Raya.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: But that was just like, are you cool?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: That was the vetting there.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it'll be like, are you serious about this?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to get married?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have a secure attachment style?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that will be the next dating app that really pops off
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: where it's like they heavily vet their members beforehand.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: And are like,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: these men,
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: because let's be real,
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: that's who needs to be vetted, who are here, like, are serious.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: They're not here to fuck around, to, like, lead you on.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: They're here to find a partner and, like, treat this seriously.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the final thing that hasn't been measured yet with these gate-capped apps.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: You have, like you said, Raya, which is what you have social capital.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Then there's The League, which is all about like highly successful working professionals.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you have capital.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: The League.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, The League.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: And what you just said is like the final frontier.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's what actually matters, how serious it is.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: People actually are.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I would also throw in there too,
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: like I did eHarmony for like literally two months in
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: between like one serious relationship to the other.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I am not, I have not been single in my life, which is pathetic.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it's true.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have a
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: family though.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: You wanted a family and kids and you got it.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that's, I think what you have to do.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have to, if that's what you want, you have to be intentional about it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100%.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I even feel like I met Jeff when I was 26 and I was feeling pressure already.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I mean, it's crazy.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not advocating for it.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I feel like it was just like the time and the era I was in.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it was pressure.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: And he proposed after we were dating for three and a half years.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like that was too long.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I was just like, enough is enough.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because, you know, again, it's, It was just like all the factors around me.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's great.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like it has worked out.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: I tend to be.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think is.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's under discussed.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think we often talk about marriage is like just like the two people.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: But from what I've seen of like observing my peers,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: it's kind of like you're entering a club of like married people and like.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: People, especially men,
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: tend to get married in quick succession of their friends because it's like,
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: okay, we're all doing this now.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: And like I've seen a lot of girls be excited to like be pregnant with their friends.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think we treat marriage as very much like just this partnership,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: but it is kind of more of a community thing of like we're going to like build
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: a community and like You want to be on the same timeline as people who you want
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: to be on this journey with of, like, children and family.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's also something that's, like,
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_02: under-considered by all the dating apps of, like,
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: what is the broader ecosystem around this person that is going to be brought into
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: the relationship.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: And, like, that also has to align as well.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really good point.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like, we have a...
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to name them.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: We have really good friends.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: We're going through, like, IVF.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: And...
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was just a very painful and, like, interesting journey for them.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And Jeff had just been like, oh, they need to, like, do it by this time.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And, like, you should try for a boy.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, butt out.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: But, like, but those are real conversations that, like, people have.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you know.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, like forevermore, you're hanging out with all the kids.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't even think that far in advance.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't thinking like, oh, 10 years down the line, like our kids are still here.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they're still here.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think just as women, or at least myself, I was just like, I got to get pregnant now.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: This is what I want.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: You have a deadline to hit.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like everybody
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: kind of has like in their head,
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: like if I want to have kids, I got to do it by this time.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I got to be like that episode of Friends where Rachel turns 30 and freaks out.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, I want to have a kid.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'd like to date them for two years, be engaged for a year.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I should have met them last week and I haven't.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's very real.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just like,
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: it's not romantic,
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: but it is,
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: if having a family is something you want, it's something that you have to fix it.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's transactional.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I also think, yeah, I mean, I don't know.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like there's something to be done with AI where it's, like,
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: more than someone's resume and more than,
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: like, what they want and more than their photos and more than a video.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's also, like,
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: using AI in a really high-level way to,
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: like, understand their, like, personality and their vibe.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because those two months that I was on eHarmony, you guys, like, there was one guy I met.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: He was airtight.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, he was, like, It's perfect on paper, seemingly perfect.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: One minute in a meeting, I'm like, you're weird.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a weird energy?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this is why you're single.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Get me out of here.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Not a serial killer vibe,
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: but there's something that, again,
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think AI can solve for where it's that factor,
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: where it's like a chemistry thing or something.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's the Black Mirror episode, Hang the DJ.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Have you guys seen this?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't seen it, no.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Drunk my memory.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's the one where it's like they go to this place and they get assigned
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: to each other and then they date and then they're like, okay,
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: you're going to date for three weeks and they send them out to a different couple.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: But this couple is so in love that they break out of the simulation to Yeah.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: Do your AI simulation care enough to, like, break out of the simulation?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's like, it's a match.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then they meet in real life and they,
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: like, lock eyes and you're like, oh, they're going to live happily ever after.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I really think that's what I'm looking for, too.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I've said this before.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: I want my AI to chat with someone.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Tell them, like, do the whole how many things you have.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: Your sign.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then be like, you're meeting this person at this time.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what you need to know.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's like,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: okay, this is more of a chemistry test and not a compatibility test, you know?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: No, is my AI compatible with your AI?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, yeah.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's really interesting.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like, I forget which one it is, Bumble or Hinge, that has the voice notes.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like they tried to solve for that vibe that you really only get in person
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: or potentially with AI avatars with their voice.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it just came out weird.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hearing a disembodied voice on your phone
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: of some dude saying some cheesy line is not attractive most of the time.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the reality is, like, women are on guard.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's like we're...
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: We're trained to think we have to protect ourselves and these are dangerous situations.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that that's really what these apps need to be solving for,
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: not necessarily like, is this person hot?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like, that's not the end all be all.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll see.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we have to start that dating app.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get good at coding on our personal blogs and then we'll go to a dating app
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: that can do that.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: You have so many takeaways from
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_02: this call.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: My to-do list is crazy.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, yay.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back, Megan.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: So glad to have you.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And yay, we'll be back on Thursday.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Bye, guys.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.