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DES ROCS · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Today I am joined by one of the most explosive voices in modern rock, Dead Rock.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: He has built this band from the ground up with pure grit, relentless touring, and a vision to bring real rock and roll energy back into the spotlight.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: But behind the big stages, movie placements, and viral moments is a story filled with setbacks, pressure, pain, and preserverance.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about the making of the new album to Al and Back, recording through a serious final injury, surviving the music industry roller coaster, and why T still approaches every song like it could be his last.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mike.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mic.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is someone bringing real danger back to rock and roll.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: You've seen him tear up stages with legends like the Rolling Stones, Muse, and the cult.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: You've heard his music everywhere, from the UFC to the WWE to major film and video game soundtracks.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: But behind the leather, the riffs, and the chaos is a story of setbacks, reinvention, and literally fighting through pain to finish what might be his most important record yet.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: With the new album to Hell and Back on the Way, this is Des Rocks.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing, my friend?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good, Mike.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: After that intro, you got me all pumped up right now.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's the point, brother.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: That is the point.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, I'm so excited for this new record.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was just telling you before we press record, I threw up a social media post and I was like, you need to listen to these songs on a drive or with your headphones in.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, man.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I appreciate that.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the louder the better, 100%.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of these songs are designed to be blasted.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So let's get right into it.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: From the outside, your career is looking like a rocket ship.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Huge tours, massive streams.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: How different does it feel from your perspective right now?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I mean, you only see what's probably online.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's usually just the good stuff.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, Instagram is definitely not real life.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And every day is just kind of a struggle to breathe life into a dream that I've been dreaming since I was in kindergarten.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always doing it against all odds and with one hand tied behind my back.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: But that is very much the Desrocks way.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love that, man.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think fans misunderstand what success in rock and roll actually looks like today?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, for sure.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I think if anybody sees you on a stage playing for a couple hundred or a couple thousand people, they kind of infer a level of sustainability that doesn't exist.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't realize like how month to month being in a band could be.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So how long have you been doing this?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've been playing in bands and just doing lots of like DIY tours since I was 13 years old.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been I've been doing it my whole adult life, playing shows all over Queens, Brooklyn, Long Island, Manhattan, all over the East Coast.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I could drive even further, going out west.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've been in a bazillion shitty bands that you've never heard of.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh until until I just kind of did my own thing and started Des Rocks.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I've noticed just from following you on social media and checking things out, and like right now, you're in a moment where you're your favorite band's favorite band.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: How does that feel?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I mean, it's we get a lot of really cool love from a lot of artists.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And we often get like told this one comment that drives me crazy.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: They go, Why aren't you guys bigger?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why aren't you guys bigger?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, You don't understand, it's not that easy out there.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not like a very hospital and hospitable environment to rock and roll artists today.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why you don't have a lot of bands, but the bands you do have are the cockroaches or the Nepo babies, and that's the ones who are left, like the ones who could survive anything or the ones who could survive anything because they have unlimited funds and resources.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of err on the total opposite side of that spectrum.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's a it's a challenging time to do what I want to do.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, with AI, and I know this is a really controversial topic, but with AI coming into light, do you think it's gonna push people more into the live music experience and it's gonna revive rock and roll as an unintended consequence?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there's any revival, so to speak.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think it there's so many things to dig into here with regards to this question.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I remember after COVID, people were like, you know, coming out of COVID, live events are gonna be through the roof.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: People have been locked up for two years and they're gonna come out and they're gonna celebrate, and live concerts will be the biggest thing in the world.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And think about like how physically oppressive and crazy that time was.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if there was any time to have that big bounce back, it would have been after that.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think just the fact that people can now easily make music is gonna drive people into the concert venues more than they already were.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like they have to want to be there, and I think it's not like an external circumstance that could ever drive ticket sales.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think it just needs to be a compelling artist with compelling music and a compelling vision.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's an actual very fair assessment, and that's a great comparison because you know, there's a lot of things that drove entertainment post-COVID that were kind of surprising.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know in my market alone, that was one of my first thoughts.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, we've got three new music venues the year after COVID happened.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: Boy, well, what are they prepping for?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because for a lot of us, it looked like, you know, it was almost like the death toll uh of the music industry.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was scared of that.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that was that was a really tough time to navigate.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't think there's gonna be any like massive revival of this or that.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like the number one thing you're competing with for live events is people just sitting at home scrolling their phone and watching Netflix.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually think AI will only make that worse as at-home entertainment becomes that much more compelling.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I agree, and that's a that's a very good point.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let's kind of going going back to Dez Rocks in particular.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've been quoted as saying that you want to bring rock and roll kicking and screaming into the twirst century.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: What does that actually mean in practice in context of everything we just discussed?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it means not reviving anything, and similarly to the way what we call classic rock now was anything but classic at the time.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a weird misnomer to me because it was so heretical, it was so revolutionary, and they were taking American rock and roll from the 50s and completely reimagining it through the lens of guys born in post-World War II working-class neighborhoods, kind of cosplaying as rock and roll, but combining it with art.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's like a whole other set of circumstances that move the art form forward, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: So similarly, it's my job to stand on the shoulder of giants, but move the art form forward, for better or for worse, but to just do something different than what came before.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, what is different is the production techniques that are available today, like the risks that I could take there, and also just the lyrical content, which tends to be a lot more personal and a lot more modern than what people wrote about 50 years ago.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not gonna write about a pinball machine.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm gonna write about like suicidal ideation on the Brooklyn Queens Expressway at 210 in the morning.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just like a much different take, but I'm gonna harness the energy of big rifts and like larger than life rock and roll music doing it.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you think is missing from modern rock right now?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think what's missing from modern rock is competition and like a healthy ecosystem of incredible bands and incredible players who are all listening to each other's records and going, fuck, I gotta compete with this.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta do better than this.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: But like, I only really feel that with the past.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I only feel that with like Prince Records or like Led Zelman records.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, fuck, I gotta compete with this, you know what I mean?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I gotta like, this is what came before me.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: So how do I create something interesting out of it?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like a lot of that ecosystem doesn't exist because of the things we were talking about before, like how tough it is to really have it out in a band in the 26th, and also like where all the incentives of bands lie today, because it lies far more in marketing and the creation of short form content than it does in brilliant music and an incredible live show.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good call out with the whole marketing and short form content because social media drives so much.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, with that considered, do you feel like you're fighting the industry, the culture, or both?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel like I'm fighting the music industry in any way.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, probably fighting more like the tech industry than anything else.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like the idea that every single artist is basically an unpaid employee of a major tech company based in Palo Alto, California.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's a crazy thought to think about that I'm competing not only with other musicians for eyeballs instead of ears, but I'm also competing against like a chef preparing a dinner on Instagram, and I'm also competing against like a girl shaking her ass, and I'm competing against a guy whose looks maxing.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's just a weird fucking dark time.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And through all of that, all of that bizarrness and darkness and dystopian-ness, whatever you want to call it, the only thing I can do is put my head down and play in a different city every single night to 500 kids and create an experience that transcends all of that bullshit.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, I love that.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many things you just said where I was like, check, check, check.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just as somebody that's trying to create something that has meaning to people myself, I fight those same things.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the algorithm doesn't work in favor of regular dudes like myself because I don't have a chick with shaking her ass on camera or I'm not looks maxing.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it's just a weird time, man.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a weird time.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, the idea that every single creative person needs to spend the majority of their time reverse engineering like a Chinese algorithm instead of just creating fantastic art and an amazing show is so antithetical to the creation of good art, which is why I don't feel at all like in competition with any of my peers today.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And dude, that is so eloquently put, and big props to you for that.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I could I could rant about this stuff all day long.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: You and me both, brother.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: We might have to do a another follow-up episode later down the line where we just talk about the horrors of trying to create art in the world of social media, I swear.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a weird time.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: So let's kind of let's kind of lean into that from a different angle a little bit.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the pandemic, you had early momentum right before the pandemic hit.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: How much did that derail things behind the scenes?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was brutal.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I lost, I mean, I lost all the momentum that I had spent, not just a couple years building, but a whole lifetime building for sure.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I had put all of my eggs in the basket of being like, I want to be the best live ever.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I want to just spend hours alone in a room practicing guitar, pretending I'm on a stage when I'm in a basement somewhere in Brooklyn.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I put all those eggs in that basket and I was not prepared for what happened.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was very much like it, like a Yucatan peninsula-style extinction event for the dinosaurs and me being one of the dinosaurs that the dinosaurs were the live performers of the world and the small little mammals who buried underground were the ones who were really savvy at social media.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: But that said, like I'm always gonna take advantage of the tools that are available to me.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I do have a lot of fun on the platforms.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I like fucking around with them.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my idols, like Freddie Mercury, like he would not disregard any of the tools available to him at the time for promoting his music, whatever it was.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't poo-poo that, but at the same time, I can lament what it's done to the greater picture of music and rock and roll specifically.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that ties into my next question really well because I was gonna ask what that period taught you had the success kept going forward, wouldn't have.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what did you learn from that period?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I I had also just been like beaten down many times in life before that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I already really had a chip on my shoulder, and I had a lot of battle scars that prepared me for COVID in a way.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I had a lot of bands that fell apart, a lot of like just kind of losing everything a couple times.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, I think I had already learned a lot of hard lessons, and I really did not need to learn another one.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, it was just like sucked.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this sucks.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: But as somebody who's talking and living and breathing right now on this podcast with you, it could have been a lot worse.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm happy to have made it out happy and alive, you know.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So since Dream Machine, things have really kind of started to surge again.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: You got a shout-out from Theo Vaughn, Dana White using your music, UFC, WWE placements.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: How did that feel?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Did that feel like validation or just fuel to keep yourself going?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's just it's just really cool.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just cool to see your music get used.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: You never know how it's gonna get used when you make it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: You often don't even think about it.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you see it pair with certain visuals, it's pretty exciting.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I never validate myself externally, like I never do, and that's a trap a lot of artists get caught into.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not doesn't matter who I opened for in the past, anything like that.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: My validation is off walking off a stage in Spokane, Washington on Easter Sunday at midnight, knowing that I just burnt it down and created a lifelong memory for 350 people in a bar.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's my validation right there.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like knowing that I did my best.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: And my other validation is like getting the masters back on my album before they're out.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's validating to me that I finished this thing for me.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't matter what happens to him after that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you bet your ass I'm gonna try and market those records for as long as I possibly can and leave it all on the court there too.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck yes.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck yes.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, kind of leaning into those moments, in you brought up other artists in needing validation.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: What do moments like that actually do for an artist behind the curtain?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of artists' families are very concerned about them.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, unless you like come from a lot of money or something like that, because they know how hard of a lifestyle it is.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they know what it's like to be like 30 years old and brushing your teeth at a gas station in Memphis, Tennessee, and not having any money in your bank account while your friends are getting married and buying houses and have golden retrievers, you know?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And they know like it's a tough life to lead that is riddled with nothing but insecurity and mostly failure.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of artists when they get to open for somebody big or do something cool, like it really helps around the Thanksgiving table when everyone cut when everyone starts asking you, like, how's it going?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it's just a brief moment.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you like truly believe in the lifestyle and the art of it, you will you will go until you physically can't go anymore.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you've had a few unexpected collaborations.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: You teamed up with Zane, which is not an obvious pairing.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: How did that come together?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I had done a song for the Borderlands 4 video game, and they were having Zane do something for it as well, and they submitted my name to produce and write the song for him, and he liked the music, and he chose me to do it.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was a really unexpected experience for everybody.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, what did you learn creatively from stepping outside of your lane?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I learned creatively to just kind of like always trust my instincts, you know what I mean?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm open to collaboration, but when it comes to making music, like I know pretty much what I want to do.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's like if you bring me in, that's what you're gonna get.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not gonna get somebody who's gonna compromise anything for for any amount of money or cloud or anything like that.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Are you interested in more genre-bending collaborations like that?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm I'm always open and interested to stuff like that for sure.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like if it's if it's something that just excites me creatively.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like nobody's ever done something like that.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like nobody's ever taken like a very not well-known rock and roll artist who is playing clubs every night in the middle of the country and had them like collaborate with like a famous English pop star.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's very weird on paper, and that I love that.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that gets me very excited.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, is there somebody out there that you haven't collaborated with that's kind of a dream collaboration for you?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Barbara Streisand.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: For real?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, for real.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think she's one of the GOATs, like she's the greatest ever was, and the same way that like Lady Gaga did like a residency of duets with Tony Bennett, like I would love to flip that dynamic and be the male version of that.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually that's really awesome.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it'd be so sick.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: I've got both Gaga Tony Bennett albums on vinyl, so I good comparison, great comparison.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about building the hell and back.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: You've written three different versions of this album before landing on the final one.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: What wasn't clicking at first?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing wasn't clicking.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I stand by the other albums that I made and that I wrote.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I love them.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not what I wanted to do at the right time.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of my process for every album.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I write, write and fully demo out like more than 50 songs, you know?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's just like, but what do I want to say right now?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: What do I want to play right now live on a stage?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And how does that fit into the chronology of everything I've done before?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's less like not finding they're great.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the songs I discard are fantastic songs that I love, but it's just what are the right ones for the right time?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a a moment that you finally said this is it?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And what was that moment?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I when I finished a song called Fall Together, I was like, oh, this just like is a certain navy blue color that I haven't like really explored before, but it still feels like very des rocks, excuse me.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, there's just something to explore here, and I can kind of use this as like an emotional core of a record and build a beautiful house around it.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: So how did being back in New York influence the final sound?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: New York always influences the records.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's just a certain electricity here that defines everything I do.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I need to like wake up and like almost be killed by a taxi cab on the way to my little studio, like uh that times a dozen every day um to create a Des Rocks record.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So do you have a specific environment that you set yourself in whenever you're composing songs, or do songs just come to you organically at any moment in time, or what does that process look like?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's really all of the above.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that I my process is like me trying to figure out my process.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I could just clock in nine to five and just write songs, but I can't.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'll often get to the studio and I'll work like a nine to five, kind of like clock in, but I might not get anything all day.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll go to sleep and I'll wake up in the middle of the night with an amazing idea.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'll leap out of bed, I'll voice note it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: But before that, I'll have the dilemma of like, do I get out of bed or will I remember this?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I will never remember it.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned that lesson the hard way many times.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I leap out of bed, I record the voice note, uh, I go back to bed, I start getting more voice notes, and then I just say, Fuck it, I wake up and I start working on the idea, and then the sun comes up and I go back to sleep, and then uh I finally wake up later and listen to it, and it's crap, and then I take a shower and I get a better idea in the shower than I did in the last 24 hours before.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the process is like super frantic and all over the place.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Did was there ever a song that you had written that just came to you in an outrageous and weird way that you hadn't expected before?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let me live, let me die.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it was just all one voice note of me singing the whole song, like the guitar parts and the melody and everything.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's like a middle of the nighter, yeah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you chose to record this album live to capture the raw energy.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Why was that so important to you?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're really known for putting on a live show that creates a certain kind of magic that is very hard to translate on record, especially if I'm playing a lot of parts.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: So there There's like a chemistry to the live band that is often missing.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Not like really for worse, like I stand by the way those earlier songs were made, but in a way that's missing.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So when you just kind of get in there and you challenge yourself to do something different, it can be very humbling.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: So we would do like a lot of takes of the songs and did not really rely on copying and pasting.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Either we get it right full top to bottom, or we don't.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a certain like discipline that people don't really ascribe to anymore.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like the end result has an intangible chemistry that is so different than most rock records released today.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can feel the air moving across the microphones, and that adds so much intangibly.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And even if I'm the only one who knows, like it just makes me feel good inside.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I was going to actually ask that as a follow-up is you know, that could be considered risky in some corners because today's music industry is so hyper polished and the music landscape is so hyper-polished.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I I always just also just tend to like run in the opposite direction of like whatever's going on in rock.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like all of rock, all like the top radio songs just produced by the same like two or three guys.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And often when I'm listening to these songs, like I can't tell when one song ends, another begins, because they have the same format, the same guitar tones, the same drum sounds.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that like if I get into a studio, that drum sound, whatever it is that day, whatever the humidity was in the studio, whatever specific chain of gear we're using, it is entirely unique.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: It may not be that unique, but it is my own.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really important to me.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think rock has, as I mentioned in the intro, lost that danger that you were trying to bring back?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'd say I'm not trying to bring back any danger.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I just am who I am and and I make what I make.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, rock has definitely lost used to be dangerous, literally, but I mean, I think a lot of that danger being gone is good.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't really ascribe or romantic I don't really ascribe or romanticize the notion of rock and roll being a death cult.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I heard an interview with Bruce Springsteen about this.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think it's horrendous that people die at the age of 27 years old.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a tragedy that's not romantic to me.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so the danger part, and like I'm happy that people don't do 30 shows and they're so beaten up by it that they just do Harrowman and need an escape.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the danger in that regard, that's something I'm trying to bring back, but there is a certain there is a certain all-in-ness that I love and ascribe to that I do think is really sorely missing.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like the idea of being on stage and being like, this is the last show I could ever play.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna give it every ounce of strength in my body.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't care if there's 80,000 people out there which I've done, and I don't care if there's eight people out there, which I've done way more than the 80,000.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's another good call out, and it's kind of an abstract question, but silver lining post-pandemic, kind of going back to the pandemic thing, is I think people are more musicians, bands, artists in general.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're more practical about how they approach the touring lifestyle and the marketing lifestyle post-pandemic than maybe they were beforehand.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you've also noticed?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think people are just like way more curated with their bands, like they care more about what goes out there.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: And there is like a certain just like nonchalance and and and doubling down on who you are and what makes you you that is uniquely rock and roll to me.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like that to me is the most rock and roll thing.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And anytime bands are just like inhaling what other bands do on social media and trying to replicate it, it's definitely does not create like a fruitful creative environment for any artist.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's it's a good point.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, while you were recording this new album, you were dealing with a serious spinal issue.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: How bad did that get for you?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was so much worse than I think anyone realizes.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: I blew out two discs in my back, and I was in a level of pain that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't walk and I had no feeling in my right leg or right foot.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this was for many, many months.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't sleep for weeks at a time, which led me to almost go completely insane.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like completely lost my mind, all while trying to really navigate the best way to heal, which was not a really productive recipe.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the circumstances under which the album was mixed, and a lot of the final overdubs and things like that were done.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of took this crazy, you know.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: If you think of like the mixing and finishing processes, like the salt being sprinkled on top, we recorded the whole thing live, so we got like that crazy energy, and then the toppings were like some of the most intense levels of pain and just like unimaginable mindset you could ever have.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that eventually led me to have a surgery, which required a pretty significant recovery period.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I never knew if I was gonna play a show again.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: So how did that reality change the emotion behind the performances?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it didn't change it much, only because every single show I've played since I was 14 years old, I've I've played it as if it could all go away any minute, which it can, which the pandemic was definitely representative of too.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and not just for like to go away because of life circumstances or or financial circumstances, but go away in the sense that I could just die tomorrow.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's kind of like a very stoic momentum more I uh approach to the whole thing.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I've always brought that with me to every single show, though, because I have such a profound appreciation of getting to do what I do while I'm doing it.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it didn't change it much because I've always really been grateful to play shows.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: So to Hell and Back drops on June 12th.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Three songs have already come out off of it.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let's kind of look towards the future a little bit.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where do you see Dez Rocks one year from now and five years from now?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, man.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you asked me that question in 2018, 2019, I would have such a specific answer that's rooted in metrics of success.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I just as I get older, I care so much less about that stuff.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I used to be like, I want this many monthlies, I want this many Instagram followers, and now I'm I'm much more zen about it.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, where is it in one year?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just hope that I'm able to do what I do and that I can retain what I have.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like the initial goal of Des Rocks is always to be like an arena artist.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what I've dreamed of my whole life.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm putting less pressure on myself to hit those kinds of benchmarks and just really enjoying the moment and thinking about how much I love getting to create art for a living and to perform it in front of people.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's a a good lead-in to my follow-up was behind all this mythology, the leather, the riffs, the persona.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: You've talked about the 14-year-old kid handing out burn CDs.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you still feel like that guy?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm still that guy.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still waiting for the train home.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still neurotically early waiting for the bus home.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still just hustling every single way.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still completely wasting my time doing things where the juice is totally not worth the squeeze.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: But if it gets one extra person to listen to my music, like I'm gonna do it.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna do it.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still like an early rising, hustling New York guy who so believes in the power of rock and roll and wants to live it and breathe it and share it with every single person who's down to receive it.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so this record is for fighters, dreamers, and survivors.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: Who is this album really for in your mind?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever it's it's for all those people, you know, without a doubt.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like the idea of helping anyone through any personal crisis or problem through the power of music is so awe-inspiring.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like people come up to me every single night and share all those incredible stories.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is for every single person who's ever supported me along the way.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I hope I can give you an amazing escape from the monotony of whatever your life may be.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope you can even enjoy it more of the show in person.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: When people listen to Helen Back, what do you want them to understand about you that maybe they didn't understand before?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want to make sure that they understand how deeply I care about the music and the art, and that I would live and die for every single note of production and every single word on this thing, and that even the songs that came together more quickly were drawn with a sense of love and passion and excitement and enthusiasm for everything I do, and that I just dream big and I always have.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I don't know, man.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just hope, again, it's not about like validation.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: I just hope that people will listen to music because it provided me with so much joy in my life and not just treat it as a 12-second background audio to a visual.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's on your playlist right now?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: What's on my playlist right now?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let me think.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Listening to a lot of classical music recently, which is maybe a little bit of an oddball.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't been listening to a lot of music recently because I've been on tour.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: So when I'm on tour, I'm so kind of like sonically fatigued that when I am walking around the city during the day, I'm literally listening to a podcast and I'm listening to some like really dense audio book on tape about like the Civil War, something like that.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's totally fair, and it makes perfect sense.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like I ask people that question all the time, and I'm like, because I know my tastes are kind of seasonal too.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like depending upon the time of year, like I'll listen to jazz in the in the fall, or I'll listen to more upbeat music in the spring, and then like harder rock during the summertime.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's always kind of very similar to you, like podcasts and audiobooks, like crazy.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I've been listening to very little music the last couple months, and that's that's pretty intentional.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll go through these periods where I'll like inhale music for months and months and months, and then I'll take a big break.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And especially when I'm writing, I don't like to listen to a lot of other music, and when I'm on tour, yeah, I can't I can't do it.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I got to be the same way whenever I go to the gym.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like I used to listen to music in the gym, and now it's kind of the opposite.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's like feed my mind, feed my mind while the physicality is going on.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes a lot of sense.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like allows you to be more present in the workout, right?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, my closing question that I ask everybody that does this show through all the things that you've experienced personally, what's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Simple measures.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: To truly make the world a better place, and you know, if you really want to change the world, you need to be involved in things that are immensely boring, like local government, and you need to vote and you need to actually participate, and you need to put your money where your mouth is and donate, and that no amount of Instagram stories is gonna change the world, and no amount of arguing online is gonna change the world, and that political action and change is so uniquely unsexy and uncool, and it requires you to do stuff that is immensely hard and not well paying.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: And if you really want to take action and you want to change stuff, then you gotta do stuff like that.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it always starts local, and I share that sentiment as well.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like the virtue signaling online doesn't accomplish anything, but if you participate in small local government, that's a great start, absolutely.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I also think like I'm I'm just so uniquely pessimistic, especially when it comes to artists who are like super political in their music.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't think John Lennon ever had, I mean, this is gonna be a hot take, but like I don't think John Lennon ever got one dictator to not commit a human rights violation.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's like you're kidding yourself if you think that just writing songs is gonna really change stuff.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: And you really need to get involved in day-to-day stuff for super long periods of time.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you really want to make a change and you can start tomorrow and you could be local and you can make a change tomorrow in your local community if you really want it to help out.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I wholeheartedly agree.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Des Rocks, tell everybody where they can find you and your music online.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just surf Des Rocks and you can't miss me.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Brand new album to Hell and Back drops June 12th.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Brother, thank you so much for doing the show.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: The world's a much better place to doing it, my friend.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thank you so much, my man.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate your time.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to thank my friend Des Rocks for joining me on the show today.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, his album, To Hell and Back, comes out on June 12th.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, there are a ton of great releases coming out on that date.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And this is just icing on the cake.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait for it.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you're following him at DezRocks on Instagram.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And while you're being generous with the follows, make sure you're following at Caught on the Mike on all social media platforms.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: Please visit me on my website www.cotonthemic.com.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if you go to my YouTube channel, give me a subscribe and share an episode with your best friend.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: It would mean the world to me and it helps the show grow.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: This has been Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: I am Michael Clark.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, thank you.