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Cardinals Fan Mailbag: How is the 2025 season shaping up? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, and welcome back to Cardinal Territory. I'm your host,
0:09
Speaker 1: Katie Wu writing solo today, but we will have Trevor
0:13
Speaker 1: Rosenthal back next week. Don't worry. First off, I hope
0:17
Speaker 1: you all had a very very happy everything. I know
0:20
Speaker 1: from my perspective, it was nice to have a little
0:22
Speaker 1: refrieved from baseball and disconnect and be with family. But
0:25
Speaker 1: of course very happy to be back with you all today.
0:28
Speaker 1: And let me say a huge thank you to everyone
0:31
Speaker 1: who has already like subscribed listened to the show. The
0:34
Speaker 1: reception of Cardinal Territory has already far exceeded my expectations,
0:38
Speaker 1: and that's a testament to all of you. So thank
0:41
Speaker 1: you so much. Hopefully we can keep bringing it and
0:43
Speaker 1: you guys keep coming back. So I had some reservations
0:47
Speaker 1: about hosting by myself this episode today because doing me
0:51
Speaker 1: podcast solo can be kind of weird, right, Like, I'm
0:53
Speaker 1: sitting here essentially talking to myself, very off putting. I've
0:56
Speaker 1: literally shot this intro like seven times. I don't care
0:58
Speaker 1: if this is awkward anymore. I'm not recording another try,
1:01
Speaker 1: so we're rolling with it. So to combat being alone,
1:05
Speaker 1: I thought we could make this into a fan episode.
1:08
Speaker 1: So let me kick this up for you. Here we go.
1:12
Speaker 1: And the reason for that was because I just kind
1:15
Speaker 1: of wanted to make this inclusive, right, So I thought
1:17
Speaker 1: maybe you could send me some fan questions, comments, concerns,
1:20
Speaker 1: and I try to answer them as best I can.
1:22
Speaker 1: There are tons of great questions here. I tried to
1:25
Speaker 1: include the ones that were asked more than once. For example,
1:29
Speaker 1: we do have a Mason Wynn extension question coming up.
1:31
Speaker 1: That's a hot topic this go around, and hopefully we
1:34
Speaker 1: get some good answers and you all aren't tired of
1:36
Speaker 1: my voice at the end. Also disclaimer, I am producing
1:40
Speaker 1: this podcast by myself too, so a lot going on.
1:43
Speaker 1: Set your expectations accordingly. Let's get to it. First question
1:49
Speaker 1: comes from my friend Quinn. He's a popular guy on
1:52
Speaker 1: cards Twitter and if you've ever met him in person,
1:55
Speaker 1: you know that he is a gem. His question, if
1:58
Speaker 1: the season started today with the rotation, shouldn't be something
2:00
Speaker 1: like Gray Sonny Gray, Miles, Michaelas, Eric Betty, Stephen Matts
2:04
Speaker 1: and Andre Polante. And if someone has moved, will it
2:06
Speaker 1: be McGreevey, Groseppo, Thompson, maybe even a tink Hens, Quinn, Matthews,
2:11
Speaker 1: will they be competing for spots during spring. All right,
2:14
Speaker 1: good question. Let's talk about the rotation. So we have
2:17
Speaker 1: four spots locked in coming into pittures and catchers, which
2:20
Speaker 1: by the way, is like six weeks and a couple
2:22
Speaker 1: of days away. Very scary. Sunny Gray is going to
2:25
Speaker 1: be your opening day starter barring health the right, we
2:27
Speaker 1: know that you can just pen that in. Then they're
2:29
Speaker 1: probably gonna go some combination of Eric Betty, Miles, Michaelis
2:32
Speaker 1: and Andre Polante. The Cardinals want Andre Polante in the
2:36
Speaker 1: starting rotation next year. He's more than earned it based
2:38
Speaker 1: on what he did last year. He had the best
2:40
Speaker 1: second half er and all of the rotation last year.
2:43
Speaker 1: That's pretty impressive when you think about the guys that
2:45
Speaker 1: were competing, and with the Cardinals focusing on their youth movement,
2:49
Speaker 1: of course, this makes a lot of sense, right, Andre
2:51
Speaker 1: Polante definition of youth movement. He's earned an opportunity to
2:54
Speaker 1: start every day, so they're going to give it to him.
2:57
Speaker 1: Where it gets a little unsure is where the Cardinals
2:59
Speaker 1: are going to go with Steven Mattz. Right, they could
3:02
Speaker 1: trade him, they could keep him for long relief. You
3:04
Speaker 1: saw Mike McGreevy. He had, I know, just three starts
3:07
Speaker 1: last year, but they were pretty impressive and they could
3:09
Speaker 1: be competing for a spot in the rotation comes spring training.
3:12
Speaker 1: I think if the season started today, McGreevy would maybe
3:16
Speaker 1: be penciled in as long relief. These are just conversations
3:18
Speaker 1: that we had with John Mozaelac at the GM meetings
3:21
Speaker 1: and the Winter meetings where he said McGreevy will absolutely
3:24
Speaker 1: be a factor at the major league level on the
3:26
Speaker 1: big league roster next year. His role, though, can be flexible.
3:30
Speaker 1: Now here's where what I would like to see. I
3:33
Speaker 1: would like to see Michael McGreevy in that rotation next year.
3:36
Speaker 1: He's a first round pick. You don't know what you're
3:38
Speaker 1: gonna have in him unless you see him in the
3:40
Speaker 1: rotation every day. And I think the Cardinals have gotten
3:43
Speaker 1: themselves in a little trap not committing to their young
3:46
Speaker 1: pitchers coming up through the pipeline on what their role
3:50
Speaker 1: is going to be. And a lot of that did
3:52
Speaker 1: factor into you know, they were competing for the postseason.
3:56
Speaker 1: You know, it was basically like who's the best guy
3:58
Speaker 1: for what we need right now? But you look at
4:00
Speaker 1: the kind of up and down roller coaster careers so
4:03
Speaker 1: far of Zach Thompson, Matthew libertore At Polante too, it
4:08
Speaker 1: took them so long to have defined roles. I would
4:10
Speaker 1: hate see that happened to McGreevy. He's a very go
4:13
Speaker 1: with the flow kind of guy. I think he'd be
4:14
Speaker 1: successful no matter what the Cardinals decided to do with him.
4:17
Speaker 1: But I do think they've caught themselves in a trap
4:19
Speaker 1: in terms of, hey, we're just gonna like fluctuate our
4:22
Speaker 1: guys between starters and relievers. I would like to see
4:25
Speaker 1: McGreevy come up and have a defined role and have
4:27
Speaker 1: them stick with it. And I personally would like see
4:30
Speaker 1: it in the rotation. I just don't know if we're
4:32
Speaker 1: going to get that. Now here's my disclaimer for you, Quinn.
4:36
Speaker 1: There's no guarantee the rotation looks like this in six weeks, right,
4:40
Speaker 1: we'll get to the Nolan Arnaudo stuff, because, as we
4:43
Speaker 1: talked about before and fire episodes, that could dictate this rotation.
4:47
Speaker 1: But if we started the season today, I think you
4:50
Speaker 1: could pencil in a Pennan, Sonny Gray, Eric Fetti and
4:53
Speaker 1: Miles Michael was in that rotation and Polonte. It's kind
4:56
Speaker 1: of up to what they see for Steven Mattz, and
4:58
Speaker 1: if Michael mcgreeby can fit in now Grisepo, Gordon gricefo,
5:02
Speaker 1: he'll get some opportunities at spring training. So was Zach Thompson,
5:05
Speaker 1: tink Hence Quinn Matthews. Very exciting guys Obviously lots to
5:09
Speaker 1: be excited for there, but I don't see them as
5:12
Speaker 1: necessarily making an impact on the opening day roster. Definitely
5:16
Speaker 1: two pictures to keep an eye on come the second
5:19
Speaker 1: half of the season, but for now, I think the
5:21
Speaker 1: Cardinals there was pretty much between us, Stephen Mattz, and
5:25
Speaker 1: Mike McGreevey in terms of that final rotation spot. All right,
5:31
Speaker 1: moving on, next question from Cee seventy, another one of
5:35
Speaker 1: my friends. I promise I didn't just pick like people
5:37
Speaker 1: that I knew and liked. These were just good questions.
5:40
Speaker 1: Here's this question. Does the emphasis on development preclude extensions
5:45
Speaker 1: for young players like Brendan Donovan or Mason Win? Say,
5:47
Speaker 1: I knew we had a Mason Win question in there,
5:50
Speaker 1: So I love this question because in a perfect world,
5:54
Speaker 1: if you are trying to sell a fan base that
5:56
Speaker 1: is frustrated that is rather apathetic. I mean, look, at
6:01
Speaker 1: how Bush Shadium was at the end of the twenty
6:03
Speaker 1: twenty four season. It was really sad, and that is
6:07
Speaker 1: you fans have every right to vocalize their frustration with ownership,
6:11
Speaker 1: with management. You know what, if that's how you want
6:13
Speaker 1: to send a message, all power to you. Let the
6:16
Speaker 1: people in charge know that you're not happy with your organization.
6:19
Speaker 1: Not shim up to games is the perfect way to
6:21
Speaker 1: do it. If you're trying to get that fan base
6:23
Speaker 1: to buy back in and you're trying to sell them
6:25
Speaker 1: on a youth movement, whether you agree or not, the
6:28
Speaker 1: first thing that you can do to ensure that this
6:31
Speaker 1: youth movement is in good faith is to extend a
6:33
Speaker 1: player like Mason Win or Brendan Donovan. Mason Win is
6:36
Speaker 1: probably my pick because he's so dynamic and to me,
6:38
Speaker 1: he's like the face of the future. Extend him through
6:41
Speaker 1: the arbitration years, give him like a jacksonurial kind of deal.
6:44
Speaker 1: And that's expressing to your fan base, Hey, we're serious
6:47
Speaker 1: about this youth movement. It's not like code to soften
6:50
Speaker 1: our rebuild. Like, we actually believe in what we're doing here.
6:53
Speaker 1: We believe in our plan and we believe that Mason
6:56
Speaker 1: is the guy to go forward. I think everyone to
6:58
Speaker 1: be on board with that, and I think would go
6:59
Speaker 1: on long way with the fan base. The problem this
7:03
Speaker 1: current front office, John Mozelock's front office is not going
7:05
Speaker 1: to be the front office that sees the next you know,
7:08
Speaker 1: five at minimum years. Right, that's him Bloom's front office.
7:12
Speaker 1: So John Mozelock's not going to make any like huge
7:16
Speaker 1: future altering decisions without hein Bloom. And it's to me
7:20
Speaker 1: a little unclear on what him Bloom wants us to
7:22
Speaker 1: be because we haven't seen him. Right, we can go
7:24
Speaker 1: back to see what he did with his tenure with Boston,
7:27
Speaker 1: but to me, that's a little unfair because different ownership
7:29
Speaker 1: groups different demands. So maybe the Cardinals are thinking, hey,
7:34
Speaker 1: let's give him the chance to completely make over this
7:36
Speaker 1: team when he takes over in twenty twenty six. So
7:39
Speaker 1: I can see why there hasn't really been a lot
7:41
Speaker 1: of extension talks. Here. Here's another thing we need to consider.
7:44
Speaker 1: It's not just John Mozelock who's stepping down after twenty
7:47
Speaker 1: twenty five. Everyone in the front office that we have
7:50
Speaker 1: grown accustomed to their contracts are up in twenty twenty five.
7:53
Speaker 1: That includes Mike Gersh and yes, I know that he
7:55
Speaker 1: took a step down. You know his role has been
7:58
Speaker 1: diminished in terms of the front office day to day operations.
8:01
Speaker 1: But his contract's up in twenty twenty five. Randy Flores
8:04
Speaker 1: is up in twenty twenty five, Morsis Rodriguez. You go
8:06
Speaker 1: down the list. So the Cardinals brass that has been
8:08
Speaker 1: instrumental in forming this organization over the last decade or so,
8:13
Speaker 1: there's no guarantee any of them will be back, right.
8:15
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they won't be, I'm just saying that
8:17
Speaker 1: contracts are up. So while I'm all on board with
8:20
Speaker 1: a Mason Winn extension or Brendan Donovan extension, and I
8:23
Speaker 1: think it would be done in good faith booth to
8:25
Speaker 1: the player and to the fan base, the timing of
8:27
Speaker 1: the front office turnover makes that really difficult. All right,
8:34
Speaker 1: Moving on from JD at the backwards DJ, what would
8:40
Speaker 1: the perfect Nolan Arnatto trade package look like for the Cardinals. Oh,
8:45
Speaker 1: I actually have a perfect example. It is the trade
8:49
Speaker 1: package that Nolan said no to last week. What the
8:53
Speaker 1: Cardinals had with the Houston Astros was a perfect ideal
8:56
Speaker 1: situation for John Mozaylock and his bosses, the Cardinals ownership,
9:01
Speaker 1: because the whole point of trading Nolan Arnado was or
9:04
Speaker 1: if they do or not, is to move salary. Mo
9:07
Speaker 1: has gone out and said this on the record. He
9:09
Speaker 1: doesn't he's not. I think most sometimes gets a bad
9:12
Speaker 1: rap with how he talks and communicates. But when he
9:16
Speaker 1: goes out and says something so blatantly like hey, we're
9:19
Speaker 1: moving him because of the financial ramifications, it's good like
9:23
Speaker 1: that's that's a legitimate reason. He wouldn't say it if
9:25
Speaker 1: it wasn't true. So the perfect Nolan Arnaudo trade package
9:29
Speaker 1: for the Cardinals has less to do with the players
9:32
Speaker 1: they're getting back and much more to do with the
9:34
Speaker 1: end of money they don't have to pay anymore. So
9:37
Speaker 1: we reported at The Athletic also reported around ESPN MLB
9:40
Speaker 1: dot com last week that the Cardinals had a deal
9:44
Speaker 1: in place with the Houston Astros to sorry, my phone
9:50
Speaker 1: is green and I'm not so over this podcast. So
9:52
Speaker 1: the Cardinals had a deal with the Eastern Astress to
9:55
Speaker 1: trade Nolan Arnaudo to the Astros and he said, uh,
9:58
Speaker 1: thank you. Next, I am not in that at the
10:00
Speaker 1: time being, And the Cardinals were frustrated from their standpoint,
10:03
Speaker 1: because they were only going to have to pay five
10:07
Speaker 1: million dollars roughly for the next three years. And that's
10:11
Speaker 1: a great deal for them for an organization that's trying
10:13
Speaker 1: to move payroll, move salary. Having to only pay fifteen
10:17
Speaker 1: million dollars roughly. If Nolan Arnado's remaining seventy four million
10:20
Speaker 1: dollar salary, that's a layup of a deal. That's the
10:23
Speaker 1: perfect trade package. I don't know if they're going to
10:25
Speaker 1: find a deal like that again, right, but again, and
10:27
Speaker 1: we talked about this in a couple episodes prior. It's
10:29
Speaker 1: not just about what they want, it's about what Nolan
10:31
Speaker 1: wants to and if he didn't want to go to Houston,
10:33
Speaker 1: he has every right to say no. So I think
10:36
Speaker 1: that's what I've been trying to convey to the fan base.
10:38
Speaker 1: And it's hard, right because like the Cardinals don't trade
10:41
Speaker 1: away good players for salary relief. That's not like, that's
10:46
Speaker 1: that's not the Cardinal way, right, So I understand why
10:48
Speaker 1: there's a lot of confusion, a lot of pushback on
10:51
Speaker 1: why they're doing this, But Moe has said it about
10:53
Speaker 1: as clear as possible. They want financial relief. They are
10:56
Speaker 1: trying to get payroll down. Moving seventy four million dollars
11:00
Speaker 1: off their books certainly accomplishes that. That's their perfect trade package.
11:04
Speaker 1: It's less about the players coming back, more about the
11:06
Speaker 1: money they are moving. There is also still no guarantee
11:09
Speaker 1: they get this trade done. I imagine though my worlds
11:12
Speaker 1: will involve over the next six weeks Nolana out of situation,
11:15
Speaker 1: so we'll have plenty of updates on that. All right,
11:20
Speaker 1: up next from Stephen Thomas. What level of confidence does
11:26
Speaker 1: DeWitt and the front office have an Ollie Marmle. Is
11:28
Speaker 1: he the guy to take the team all the way
11:30
Speaker 1: through the reset to contention or do they see him
11:32
Speaker 1: as a likely bridge that develops young players that they
11:35
Speaker 1: move on from. This is a good question. I can
11:41
Speaker 1: see I can see where you're coming from here. But
11:44
Speaker 1: at the same time, it doesn't really matter what this
11:46
Speaker 1: current front office feels in Ollie Marmle. Obviously, John Mozelak
11:50
Speaker 1: has a ton of confidence in him. That's why he
11:53
Speaker 1: was given that extension ahead of the twenty twenty four season,
11:56
Speaker 1: fresh off the Cardinals having their worst season in like
11:58
Speaker 1: thirty years. I think Allie also gets a bad rap sometimes,
12:02
Speaker 1: and I promise this is not like oh, beat writer
12:04
Speaker 1: looks sticking up for the players, signing up for the coaches.
12:07
Speaker 1: I read those comments, you guys, I read the comments
12:09
Speaker 1: on YouTube. I know when you're saying mean things about me.
12:11
Speaker 1: This is my honest opinion. Ollie Marmle has a huge
12:15
Speaker 1: background in player development. So does his coaching staff. When
12:18
Speaker 1: you think about the guys that were coming up in
12:20
Speaker 1: like twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, so think of
12:23
Speaker 1: like the Tommy Edmund, Jack Flaherty era, the Paul De
12:28
Speaker 1: Young era, Harrison Bader, all of those guys that made
12:30
Speaker 1: that twenty nineteen championship era playoff team so exciting. Guys
12:36
Speaker 1: like Allie Marmele, Pop Warner, Stubby Clap. They were instrumental
12:39
Speaker 1: in the minors in player development. And we've talked a
12:41
Speaker 1: lot about player development kind of falling off the wayside
12:44
Speaker 1: for the organization. Ollie, Stubby Pop, those Mike Schult when
12:50
Speaker 1: he was there, they really molded those minor leagues. So
12:53
Speaker 1: the players that climb up in twenty nineteen, that like
12:55
Speaker 1: Core that everyone was super excited about, they were ready
12:58
Speaker 1: to be big leaders. And I still thing that, you
13:00
Speaker 1: know what if in twenty twenty. I think that maybe
13:03
Speaker 1: derailed their setback a lot of guys in their careers,
13:05
Speaker 1: but you can't control that. The point is, in twenty nineteen,
13:08
Speaker 1: those players were ready to play, they were ready to contribute,
13:11
Speaker 1: and we saw that. You know, yeah, they ran into
13:13
Speaker 1: the World Series Champions and the Nationals and the NLCS.
13:16
Speaker 1: That's baseball. But that was a core that people were
13:19
Speaker 1: excited about. So Allie Marmle's job is now to do
13:22
Speaker 1: what he did in the minor leagues with this current
13:25
Speaker 1: core now because they didn't have that. This current core
13:27
Speaker 1: didn't have that in twenty twenty, twenty one, twenty twenty two,
13:31
Speaker 1: Jordan Walker, Nolan Gorman, Yvon Herrera, Pedro Pajez, Lars Newbark.
13:34
Speaker 1: Go down the list, guys, and we have not even
13:37
Speaker 1: starting about the pitchers. Right go down the list. These
13:39
Speaker 1: are guys that maybe didn't get the best minor league
13:42
Speaker 1: instruction during their time in the player development or in
13:45
Speaker 1: their farm system. And now Allie Marmle's job and his
13:48
Speaker 1: staff's job is to find that development at the major leagues.
13:51
Speaker 1: That is really really hard to do. But given his
13:54
Speaker 1: background and given the fact that he's done it before,
13:57
Speaker 1: I can see why he's here for twenty twenty five.
13:59
Speaker 1: I can see why his staff was given extensions at
14:01
Speaker 1: the end of the year or had their contracts renewed. Right.
14:05
Speaker 1: I think this is the right play because you're essentially
14:08
Speaker 1: teaching these players what they should have learned in Double
14:10
Speaker 1: A and TRIPAA at the major league level, and you're
14:12
Speaker 1: doing it with guys that have worked up their ranks
14:14
Speaker 1: through the Cardinals organization in the minor leagues and player
14:17
Speaker 1: development staff as well. So that's the first part to
14:21
Speaker 1: this question. The second part is it really kind of
14:25
Speaker 1: depends on what Heim bloom Sea's after twenty twenty five, right,
14:28
Speaker 1: Like this whole transition year. I totally understand why the
14:31
Speaker 1: Cardinals are doing it. It's very unorthodox, but it does
14:36
Speaker 1: make sense when you really sit down and break it down.
14:38
Speaker 1: I think Ollie Marvel in twenty twenty two, I mean,
14:42
Speaker 1: he had two nationally MVP candidates, he had Albert Poohles,
14:46
Speaker 1: but he also had a relatively young squad there and
14:49
Speaker 1: that was helpful. In twenty twenty three, I'm not quite
14:52
Speaker 1: sure who could have won with that team, especially in
14:55
Speaker 1: the second half. Tony LaRussa in the second half of
14:57
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, He's probably not winning with that roster
15:00
Speaker 1: he hears up, probably not so. I do think he
15:02
Speaker 1: gets kind of a bad rap there as well. But
15:05
Speaker 1: this is a big year for him because if he
15:07
Speaker 1: can solidify the trust in this young group and help
15:10
Speaker 1: mold them at the major league level, then you can
15:12
Speaker 1: maybe see him taking them through contention. Now, if guys
15:15
Speaker 1: take significant steps back, which you know you hope doesn't happen,
15:18
Speaker 1: or the Cardinals completely fall apart and this whole reset
15:22
Speaker 1: really goes up in flames, then I think him Bloom
15:24
Speaker 1: has a tougher decision to make. But for right now,
15:27
Speaker 1: I think for what the Cardinals are doing, this is
15:29
Speaker 1: the right call. Whether or not fans want to hear that.
15:34
Speaker 1: And if you're rolling your eyes at me right now
15:35
Speaker 1: because you don't like the answer, because you want all
15:37
Speaker 1: the mar mule to be fired, that's fine. I get it.
15:40
Speaker 1: I again read the comments. Next up, with all the
15:47
Speaker 1: new hires in the organization being front office and minor
15:50
Speaker 1: league instructors, do the Cardinals have plans to help the
15:52
Speaker 1: young guys on the current roster? Is it sink or swim?
15:55
Speaker 1: Or are we waiting on the next batch of youngsters.
15:59
Speaker 1: I like this question because we don't know right like
16:01
Speaker 1: they believe they have we taught. We've just talked about this.
16:04
Speaker 1: Ollie Pops w in place, Daniel descalso coming back, John Jay.
16:08
Speaker 1: I mean, these were guys you think about the Memphis Mafia,
16:11
Speaker 1: that they know what it's like to be homegrown Cardinals
16:14
Speaker 1: and be part of that that core that brought a
16:16
Speaker 1: world series back to Saint Louis. So like losing what Limbogee,
16:20
Speaker 1: that's that's tough. I know he'll try to be around
16:22
Speaker 1: the organization. He just won't be with the major league
16:24
Speaker 1: roster every day. But bringing someone like John Jay into
16:28
Speaker 1: the organization to be with descalso, to be alongside Olie Marmel,
16:33
Speaker 1: like what but Discalso and John Jay did in Saint
16:36
Speaker 1: Louis is textbook what the Cardinals want to recreate. So
16:39
Speaker 1: that I think will be super helpful. That will help
16:42
Speaker 1: the young guys on the current roster. And there are
16:44
Speaker 1: tons of young guys that are looking to take the
16:45
Speaker 1: next step, and we're not talking about just the ones
16:47
Speaker 1: that we think will be starters, right Like, this goes
16:49
Speaker 1: beyond Mason Wyn, Jordan Walker, Brendan Donovan. This is also
16:52
Speaker 1: guys that are in like triple A kind of knocking
16:55
Speaker 1: on the door. The four A kinds of guys. Now
16:58
Speaker 1: it's kind of sinker swim though you think about it,
17:00
Speaker 1: and this has less to do with the instructors. Like,
17:02
Speaker 1: of course, the coaches are going to help the players
17:04
Speaker 1: and do the best that they can to ensure that
17:06
Speaker 1: they're putting them in the best position to succeed. But
17:08
Speaker 1: if this core does not work out, then this cardinal's
17:12
Speaker 1: reset becomes a lot longer than what they're expecting it
17:18
Speaker 1: to be. So let's start with like the best case scenario, Right,
17:22
Speaker 1: Mason Wynn takes off flars Newbar, figures it out and
17:24
Speaker 1: stays healthy. Brendan Donovan continues to post. Nolan Gorman figures
17:28
Speaker 1: out a way to hit the ball more consistently. Jordan
17:30
Speaker 1: Walker hits the ball near all things that they want
17:32
Speaker 1: to see. Right, you can take some steps forward with
17:34
Speaker 1: cashing with Von Herrera and Pedro Pajz. What Mike Siani
17:38
Speaker 1: and Victor Scott the second Victor Scott the second do
17:41
Speaker 1: in center field that will be helpful as well. What
17:43
Speaker 1: pitchers take a step up? Will that be? Andrea Plante
17:46
Speaker 1: figured out will Mike McGreevy be a guy can Gorn
17:49
Speaker 1: and grissefo be maybe a high leverage reliever. These are
17:51
Speaker 1: all things that if they all pan out, you're all
17:53
Speaker 1: of a sudden getting really excited about the next upcoming
17:56
Speaker 1: corps right now. On the flip side, if everyone takes
18:00
Speaker 1: a step back and essentially the players that stalled so Gorman, Walker,
18:06
Speaker 1: et cetera, continue to stall, all of a sudden, you're thinking, Okay,
18:10
Speaker 1: maybe we don't have the pieces in place. We tried
18:13
Speaker 1: to see what we had, it's not working out. Now
18:15
Speaker 1: we have to create a new batch of players in
18:19
Speaker 1: our farm system. Now we maybe have to make some trades.
18:22
Speaker 1: It's so unpredictable. And that's why this plan that the
18:25
Speaker 1: Cardinals have, whether it's it's not the most popular with
18:28
Speaker 1: the fan base, and I understand, I can. I can
18:31
Speaker 1: also understand the rationale behind it because they aren't going
18:34
Speaker 1: to know what they have until they run out their
18:36
Speaker 1: current core every single day. So by running out that
18:40
Speaker 1: core and having descalso and John Jay kind of be like, hey,
18:43
Speaker 1: we did this, we know what it takes, and ultimately
18:46
Speaker 1: ultimately accomplished the top goal, which is to win a
18:49
Speaker 1: World Series and bring it back to Saint Louis, like,
18:51
Speaker 1: this is what you have to do. I think that's
18:53
Speaker 1: going to be really helpful. It's also on the players
18:55
Speaker 1: to figure it out, right, Like can Nolan Gorman make
18:58
Speaker 1: those changes? Can Jordan Jordan Walker make those changes? Can
19:01
Speaker 1: Lars new Varse healthy? Like we go down the list.
19:04
Speaker 1: Ultimately it's can these players, given a proper runway perform
19:08
Speaker 1: or can they not? And at the end of the
19:10
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five season, the Cardinals will have their answer
19:12
Speaker 1: and they can go from there all right. Coming up
19:18
Speaker 1: from Adam Layton, do you feel that Moe has some
19:22
Speaker 1: regret over his decision to fire Shilt given his success
19:25
Speaker 1: and Marvel struggled the last few seasons. I think both
19:28
Speaker 1: are great guys, but I think the pressure on Marmalty's
19:30
Speaker 1: new school philosophy is different than he was used to
19:32
Speaker 1: thanks and enjoy the show. This is an interesting question.
19:37
Speaker 1: I don't think John Moselac has regret over his decision
19:41
Speaker 1: to fire Mike Shildt. I think he just wasn't expecting
19:45
Speaker 1: to at the time, and he went out and said that.
19:48
Speaker 1: When the Cardinals lost the twenty twenty one wild card
19:50
Speaker 1: game against the Dodgers, John Mosela caught a fight back
19:53
Speaker 1: to Saint Louis, and he was preparing to extend Mike Shilt.
19:56
Speaker 1: How could you not. He had just won seventeen games
19:57
Speaker 1: in a row with a roster that was, you know,
20:00
Speaker 1: not exactly a powerhouse and made it to the playoffs
20:02
Speaker 1: and they had like what a two percent chance of
20:04
Speaker 1: doing that come September first it was insane. But things
20:07
Speaker 1: went down over their exit interviews and Mo made the
20:10
Speaker 1: decision to not extend Shill and ultimately fired him. And
20:13
Speaker 1: that was not something that he was expecting to do. Now.
20:16
Speaker 1: He always thought that Ali Marmel would be either a
20:19
Speaker 1: farm director or a major league manager. So did he
20:23
Speaker 1: give Ali the shot? Absolutely? And did Ali do really
20:26
Speaker 1: well in twenty twenty two? Yes? Is he continuing to
20:29
Speaker 1: learn from his mistakes? Of course? Is he continuing to
20:33
Speaker 1: be a better manager? I think so. I think when
20:35
Speaker 1: you're looking in twenty twenty four, especially those like very
20:39
Speaker 1: tight margin of victory games, how Allie and Daniel Discasso
20:43
Speaker 1: used their bullpen and Dusty Blake like that won them
20:47
Speaker 1: so many games. So yeah, I don't think there's regret there.
20:52
Speaker 1: I think it was just a situation that Moe didn't
20:54
Speaker 1: see coming. And say what you want about John Mosilac,
20:57
Speaker 1: he is very calculated. There are no surprises with him.
21:01
Speaker 1: He is very aware of what's going on within that organization.
21:04
Speaker 1: It is very much his show. When I say that
21:06
Speaker 1: as like a like a matter of respect, like he
21:10
Speaker 1: is very rarely caught off guard with things that are
21:12
Speaker 1: happening in his own organization, and that's how it should be.
21:15
Speaker 1: He was not expecting to fire Mike Schildt, and I
21:18
Speaker 1: you know, for what it's worth, I think Mike shild
21:20
Speaker 1: learned from his mistakes in Saint Louis too, look at
21:21
Speaker 1: the success he's seen in San Diego. So no, I
21:26
Speaker 1: don't think there's regret. I think it was just a
21:29
Speaker 1: matter of not really being prepared to make a manager
21:32
Speaker 1: at a change and then having to scramble after. But
21:34
Speaker 1: credit to Allie Marmal twenty twenty three aside, that was
21:38
Speaker 1: an insane year, and if you've replayed that year again,
21:41
Speaker 1: I don't think it's great, but I don't think it's
21:43
Speaker 1: as bad as whatever that disaster was. I think Allie
21:47
Speaker 1: and Moe are very much invested in the success of
21:49
Speaker 1: bringing winning baseball back to the Cardinals. I think Moe
21:53
Speaker 1: is aware that that might not happen under his tenure,
21:55
Speaker 1: but he's doing his best to put the organization in
21:57
Speaker 1: a position to succeed when he's gone. And I think, all,
22:00
Speaker 1: you know, he came up as a cardinal. He understands
22:02
Speaker 1: this as well, So don't see there's any regret. I
22:06
Speaker 1: certainly understand the cardinal fans desires for both Moe and
22:10
Speaker 1: Alie to be better. I guess I read about it
22:14
Speaker 1: every day, but if you really break it down and
22:16
Speaker 1: look at it through the organization's lens, I think they're
22:21
Speaker 1: okay with how this worked out twenty twenty three, aside
22:24
Speaker 1: because they weren't expecting to make a change in the
22:26
Speaker 1: first place. All Right, we're almost done. We're almost at times.
22:33
Speaker 1: So I'm going to get to two more from Tyler Leonard.
22:36
Speaker 1: The reset, I like that you use that in quotes.
22:38
Speaker 1: I do that too. The reset is about letting the
22:40
Speaker 1: kids play and seeing what they've got as the team
22:42
Speaker 1: looks to the future with this young core getting a
22:45
Speaker 1: fair shot. Which players are one more year of underperforming
22:48
Speaker 1: away from not being part of that future. Tyler, this
22:51
Speaker 1: is a question that I read and instantly was like, yeah,
22:53
Speaker 1: I'm including that because it is such a good question,
22:57
Speaker 1: and if I had to pick one, I go with
23:00
Speaker 1: Lars Newbar. Look, I think Lars Newbar can be a
23:03
Speaker 1: dynamic talent, right, and he's fun to watch, He's great
23:06
Speaker 1: with the fans. He has all the skill set, but
23:09
Speaker 1: can he stay on the field like he's I don't
23:14
Speaker 1: like how we talk about baseball players like in their
23:16
Speaker 1: mid twenties to early thirties as being old. It makes
23:18
Speaker 1: me feel like very self conscious. But in the grand
23:21
Speaker 1: scheme of things, like he's on the verge of the
23:23
Speaker 1: youth movement, right, he's almost aged out of it. And
23:26
Speaker 1: this is the guy that the Cardinals have been adamant
23:28
Speaker 1: about building around for years. Every winter meetings and every
23:32
Speaker 1: trade deadline, high profile teams call about two players, Brendan
23:36
Speaker 1: Donovan and Lars new Bar, and every single time the
23:39
Speaker 1: Cardinals are like, those are non starters for us. We
23:41
Speaker 1: are not getting rid of them. We believe in their future.
23:45
Speaker 1: So this is a big year for Lars Newbar. It's
23:47
Speaker 1: got to stay healthy. He's got to hit the ball
23:49
Speaker 1: a little bit more consistently. When you look at the
23:51
Speaker 1: bad of all metrics, it's all there, and I wonder
23:53
Speaker 1: you know, if he didn't crash into the wall in
23:55
Speaker 1: spring training last year, how his April would have gone.
23:59
Speaker 1: Because I remember in or very early spring training when
24:02
Speaker 1: he's on the backfields watching him take batting practice, and
24:05
Speaker 1: his swing looked different and it sounded different, and I
24:08
Speaker 1: went up to him and I was like, what did
24:10
Speaker 1: you do? Did you change something? And he went into
24:13
Speaker 1: this whole detail about he'd spent the off season back
24:17
Speaker 1: in so Cal working with the Arnatto brothers on totally
24:20
Speaker 1: revamping his swing and it looked really good. And then
24:23
Speaker 1: of course the injuries happened. He's hurt. It's hard to
24:26
Speaker 1: bounce back from that. That's been the story of Lars
24:28
Speaker 1: new Bar's career. Unfortunately, with his time in Saint Louis.
24:31
Speaker 1: I do believe that he has every every like I
24:36
Speaker 1: don't know, possibility of being an impact player. And the
24:38
Speaker 1: Cardinals obviously believe that too. That's why he's still here,
24:41
Speaker 1: That's why they are so so hesitant to move him.
24:44
Speaker 1: But if he doesn't figure out this year, they may
24:46
Speaker 1: have to rethink their strategy with Lars. The good news
24:50
Speaker 1: is he's going to have a chance to play every
24:51
Speaker 1: single day. Right, we know this about him and I
24:55
Speaker 1: don't know how this outfield is going to pan out,
24:57
Speaker 1: but we do know that he's going to be in it.
24:58
Speaker 1: So it's a big year for Lars new Bar above all,
25:02
Speaker 1: I'm excited to see how that works out for him.
25:07
Speaker 1: Last question from Thomas, We see Thomas. I really liked
25:10
Speaker 1: your question here because there's so much to dive into.
25:13
Speaker 1: Are the Cardinals using spring training to decide on their
25:16
Speaker 1: primary catcher, second, third, basement, and center fielder or are
25:19
Speaker 1: the spots already solidified? Newpar could surprise and center would
25:22
Speaker 1: prefer Donnia a third and Herrera at catcher raises the ceiling. Okay,
25:28
Speaker 1: a lot to dive in here. This is a good
25:30
Speaker 1: question to end on. So there are like two positions
25:34
Speaker 1: solidified next year shortstop Mason Wynn, first base Wilson and
25:38
Speaker 1: Juris If Nolan Arnauto stay is obviously he's going to
25:40
Speaker 1: play third base in every day, right, So let's say
25:44
Speaker 1: you know that he does. All of a sudden, you
25:48
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a competition. What are you
25:49
Speaker 1: going to do with Nolan Gorman because they want Nolan
25:51
Speaker 1: Gorman to play every day? Does he become the regular
25:54
Speaker 1: starting second baseman? I would lean yes, because Moas said it,
25:58
Speaker 1: they wanted to see five hundred to six hundred played
26:00
Speaker 1: appearances next year. So he's going to be in the
26:03
Speaker 1: lineup every day. Could he switch off in DH, Sure,
26:06
Speaker 1: but that's where someone like Brendan Donovan and his ability
26:08
Speaker 1: to play every position ever really helps out. So that
26:12
Speaker 1: I could see center field that's going to be an
26:15
Speaker 1: open competition. Look, Mike Siani is a dynamic talent. Should
26:19
Speaker 1: I think he should have gotten some more goal glove love,
26:21
Speaker 1: but that was a really competitive center field class last year.
26:24
Speaker 1: Victor Scott the second has all the tools and he's
26:26
Speaker 1: another one of those players that was not helped at
26:29
Speaker 1: all in the Cardinals farm system, and they did rush
26:31
Speaker 1: him up out of need. You know, that's I don't
26:34
Speaker 1: think you can blame anyone for that. The Cardinals had
26:36
Speaker 1: four outfielders go down in spring training, so rushing Victor
26:39
Speaker 1: before he was ready was just an unfortunate circumstance. And
26:42
Speaker 1: I thought he did well given given what was going on.
26:46
Speaker 1: If he comes out and shines in center fields, then
26:48
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you have a legit competition where
26:50
Speaker 1: Sianni and Scott are Maybe that's like the biggest competition
26:53
Speaker 1: position wise in spring training the primary catcher, I can
26:57
Speaker 1: see the Cardinals going fifty to fifty as you can
27:00
Speaker 1: make an argument for Pedro Pajas his defense is a
27:03
Speaker 1: little better than Yvon Herrera. I think Von Herrera has
27:05
Speaker 1: the higher offensive ceiling. Both of them are so young, though,
27:08
Speaker 1: and you know, just coming off their first full year
27:10
Speaker 1: of their careers. It's hard to know what kind of
27:12
Speaker 1: player they're going to be every day, so you try
27:14
Speaker 1: to play them equally. I think that's the plan. Now.
27:16
Speaker 1: If someone comes up and absolutely runs away with the
27:18
Speaker 1: show in spring training, they're probably going to get the nod.
27:21
Speaker 1: But I can definitely see the Cardinals platooning their catching
27:24
Speaker 1: position next year and not necessarily having a starting catcher
27:27
Speaker 1: and a backup catcher. Now, I'm actually going to push
27:31
Speaker 1: back a little bit on new Bar in the center
27:34
Speaker 1: because if you've looked at the metrics, it would be
27:36
Speaker 1: such a huge drop off from Siani to Scott to
27:39
Speaker 1: new Bar. Defensively, new Bar is great in the corners,
27:43
Speaker 1: and I think he profiles really well there. He has
27:44
Speaker 1: a strong arm center. Though the reeds take a significant hit,
27:48
Speaker 1: the reaction time takes a significant hit, the jump is
27:50
Speaker 1: not as strong. So if you're constructing this lineup, you
27:54
Speaker 1: really have to think about what matters more to you,
27:56
Speaker 1: offense or defense. And the Cardinals for so long value
28:00
Speaker 1: defense that I cannot see them willingly running new Bar
28:04
Speaker 1: in center field every day. We'll see though, I could
28:08
Speaker 1: see Donovan at third, but even if Arnatto leaves, I
28:12
Speaker 1: think Gorman is going to go to third primarily, and
28:14
Speaker 1: then you kind of have the rotating spot at second
28:16
Speaker 1: with Donnie there. He can play everywhere. That's what's nice
28:18
Speaker 1: about having him. You know he's going to be in
28:20
Speaker 1: the lineup every day, you just don't know what position
28:21
Speaker 1: he's going to be at. So again, like if you're
28:24
Speaker 1: predicting the lineup next year, it's up to you. Almost
28:27
Speaker 1: you value more if you value offense more, and then
28:30
Speaker 1: Hirea is going to catch every day, new Bar is
28:31
Speaker 1: going to be in center and you can maybe play
28:34
Speaker 1: around with Burlison, Gorman, Donovan in terms of how you
28:38
Speaker 1: utilize them. If you value defense more, you're going to
28:41
Speaker 1: have either Seanni or Scott in center field. You're going
28:43
Speaker 1: to have new Bar and left, and you're going to
28:45
Speaker 1: hope that Dorna Walker figures it out in right field.
28:47
Speaker 1: Because this is, you know, going back to the previous question,
28:50
Speaker 1: this is the year for him to figure it out.
28:53
Speaker 1: And I've said it before, I'll say it again. I
28:55
Speaker 1: don't really think that he had the most fair shakeout
28:58
Speaker 1: in the outfield in terms of how he can came
29:00
Speaker 1: up through the minor league system. But that's the story
29:02
Speaker 1: for another time. So if that's what you're valuing defense,
29:05
Speaker 1: then you're going to see the center field alignment of
29:06
Speaker 1: like Scott Siani and then maybe you're going to have
29:10
Speaker 1: Gorman at second or Gorman the DH and you know
29:13
Speaker 1: we'll go from there. But a lot can change, you guys.
29:16
Speaker 1: It's only December twenty seventh. There's still six more weeks
29:18
Speaker 1: of this crazy offseason, and I expect it. I don't
29:22
Speaker 1: expect this to be the like actual full roster. I
29:26
Speaker 1: do think they'll make at least one or two more changes,
29:28
Speaker 1: but I do think it's really hard to predict what
29:30
Speaker 1: that's going to look like until they know what's going
29:32
Speaker 1: on with Arnato. And as we've all seen, that's been
29:36
Speaker 1: an interesting saga. All Right, we did it. We survived
29:39
Speaker 1: almost thirty minutes of just me talking. If you stuck
29:42
Speaker 1: with me this long, you deserve, like an award or something.
29:45
Speaker 1: Thanks as always for following along. Like I said, we'll
29:48
Speaker 1: have Trevor Rosenthal back next week. You know the drill.
29:52
Speaker 1: Follow us on Card Territory, Like and subscribe to our
29:55
Speaker 1: page on YouTube, find us on Spotify, Apple, wherever you
29:58
Speaker 1: get your podcast. Thanks much for tuning in you guys,
30:01
Speaker 1: but then get to your question. I'll try to get
30:03
Speaker 1: to it next time. Thanks as always for the early
30:06
Speaker 1: support and we will talk soon