Latest / The Commercial Builders’ Network (TCBN) / Construction Safety Careers, Salaries & How Poor Safety Can Cost You Contracts
Transcript
- speaker-0: Today we're talking about something that can make or break a construction business. Safety. Joining us today is Darren Johnson, a certified safety executive and safety engineering consultant with extensive experience overseeing safety programs for the airport, transit system, and major construction projects. We're discussing the career opportunities and earning potential in construction safety. Why even the smallest contractors need to prioritize it and how something called an EMR score can impact your ability to secure contracts with major general contractors. This is the Commercial Builders Network, where we like to say construction can change your life, and it's starting to look a lot like you. This is the Commercial Builders Network, where trust is restored, power is reclaimed, and legacy is built. Let's get to work. Hello, beautiful people, and welcome to another episode of the Commercial Builders Network. My name is Tanisha Reed and I'm your host. And today we have the amazing Darren Johnson. He is a safety executive. I'm sorry, a certified safety executive. How you doing today, Darren? speaker-1: Hey, how you doing there, Tanisha? speaker-0: I'm awesome. I'm awesome. It's good to have you. speaker-1: Yeah, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for inviting me out. speaker-0: No problem, no problem. So we're gonna dive right in. You have done safety compliance risk management in some very complex environments from airport to transit systems and major construction. Can you tell people that are not familiar with the industry what safety actually is inside of this space? speaker-1: Well, safety I would say is pretty much we're trying to mitigate, risk and hazards for organizations and over the last few years, it's been a real high focus on that. So say organizations they wanna invest on being a lot more proactive versus letting something, happen, accident or as you see on the news, a plane crash or train crash and all that kind of stuff. So Companies now and in the industries all over the world and especially here in the United States, they try to manage that safety and risk and get out there and be more proactive. So, that's where the industry's really pushing towards in today's current times and it's really a a big deal now. speaker-0: So can you tell me what are some of the most common safety hazards that happen on a construction site and what happens if they aren't addressed? speaker-1: Well, some of the ones that we ran up against on a lot of construction sites are, a lot of fall protection issues and that's always the top one. OSHA has a list called, you know, where they go by it's like falls, struck by caught in betweens, different things like that. So you can have falls because a lot of guys work from heights. That's a whole science and engineering by itself, because if workers back in A long time ago when they was building bridges and skyscrapers, it was no big deal made out of it, but a lot of people end up dying because they felt to their death. You can see look at some of the old videos that show people working up there with no f type of fall protection. In modern times like today, you know, people working in those fields now, they have to have a lot of science like guardrails. fall arrest systems and different things like that to prevent, people from falling. I I ran into a lot of guys that we used to have to do all this, but times is changing and modern times is have a lot of requirements though. And so we try to kinda address those, in the especially in the construction industry. And then so even going on the ground, you got excavations. That's a very dangerous area that when they're digging, they have to dig, you know, holes in the ground and that's really risky. That's almost as bad as far protection 'cause the soil can kinda collapse. And when the soil collapse on you, it's almost having the weight of a car falling on you. Or say if the soil, you're in a hole and you're digging and you're trying to do an excavation and the soil collapse around your legs. The the weight of the soil is the equivalent of a whole car laying on your legs. So we have to make sure they have like certain tools like You have trench boxes, they do strawing, they push the soil back to make it safe conditions for construction workers to work in. speaker-0: So what would be the difference between the minimum OSHA requirements and actually having a real safe culture within your construction company? What's the difference? speaker-1: It's funny you bring that up. So a lot of times what happened we get into these discussions with a lot of contractors and personnel, especially when we're sitting in meetings, OSHA is always gonna be the bare minimum and if you guys kinda watch Congress and the news, they kinda always behind the eight bar. And so OSHA is like they and OSHA been around since the seventies. I can't remember the exact year. They came on board and the in an accident some work sites and offices and throughout the country went down tremendously because people look at OSHA and say, Hey, that's the law. They could come in, find you, enforce certain laws and, saying you have to do this and have to do this safety wise. So they still a good function, but they're still the bare minimum. I always tell people you can still get in trouble with with with just using OSHA requirements. But we have another higher standard we call best practices. And actually though OSHA do does when they make a law to a safety law, they normally get it from best practices like in FPA seventy E or something like that. Or insurance companies, they come up with different higher requirements. And then later on those take become law that OSHA passed. But the thing is is that technologies change so fast that OSHA can't keep up with it. So we always suggest that it's always better to go with best practices if you really, really want to keep your employees safe. And you could look at as the example of I like to use cars. So OSHA would be like a a a a a four escort, you know. I remember they still I don't know if they s they don't make those anymore. And then best practices would be like, you know, the equivalent of like a Rolls Royce or a Bentley or something. Because you're coming up with better ideals and different things like that to and forth to make sure your safety culture is really in a good sp place. speaker-0: Love that. I I I wanna go ahead and dive into what the career opportunities are inside of safety. 'Cause I don't think most people think, I can get into construction and do safety. So what are the different positions that are inside of safety and what exactly do they do? speaker-1: Well, I've been in safety now over twenty years. One of the neat things about safety though, I don't watch this industry grow. Actually, I actually probably been in safety a long time, way before that. I joke with people, I say, Well, I probably s my first safety job was a safety patrol in elementary. I don't even know if they still had us guys, but I was doing it for elementary. And this funny thing about that though, I always say, God work in mysterious ways 'cause at that young age in elementary, I ain't have no idea of what I wanted to do. I think I wanted to be a astronaut. I was always was interested in engineering and technical fields. But end up what happened, I went from being a safety a safety patrol back then. I know they got the crosswalk guards and stuff nowadays. And then as I got a little older in my teenage years, I think I became a lifeguard. Still no ideal on what's going on in in the safety world. And then as I went into the military, I started getting a little bit more focused. And I think when I first moved to Atlanta, I'm originally from Detroit, I moved to Atlanta in the nineties. My first career move was because I used my GI Bill to go back to school with, I end up a private investigator working for the insurance industry. Which the insurance industry has a lot of safety roles. That's a good place to kind of like start off. And I was investigating, you know, workers comp claims and different things like that. And that was more like being re reactive. So workers comp and and OSHA and all those groups work together. So workers comp is normally used when, you know, after employee get injured or hurt, you know, they file a workers comp. claim. And, you know, a lot of companies wasn't really having no strong safety programs back then. And but that's a good industry to go in at, you know, starting off though, because, you know, the insurance industry really strong about, you know, making sure you got safe certain safety protocols in place. And they have roles like loss control, consultants, and different things like that. Very similar to being in this know, working on a safety construction site. The only difference you gotta do a lot r lot more writing. Or you could work in claims and different things like that. So, you know, you'll get a high deal on what's going on in accidents and how insurance companies look at companies who have a lot of issues or have issues. So that's a good role to get into. But then I got later on moved into the safety role after I had left the insurance industry. And I think what ended up happening, it was so funny how I made that decision. One day I went to go see a guy and he was I had to interview him. I was working for an insurance company. He had an accident at work. I think what happened, a tire blew up in his face. And he was temporarily blind. He was in the hospital for a period of time and he really, you know, had some concerns. You know, he was like he was a dedicated employee coming to work every day. And He just felt like really bad that, what had happened to him and he didn't he and I would say to myself, I said, Well maybe somebody maybe I should maybe I'm on the wrong side of the fence and I like to get more involved in preventing stuff like that from happening. And so that's how I made the transition into safety. And it was a easy transition of and and 'cause in the safety world you're gonna try to catch things before they happen. And I got involved in that part and it's different levels you can start off, a at safety technicians, safety coordinator, you can move up to safety representative, safety they got so many different roles and titles though. And those are more like the field roles though too. And then as you move up into management, you move into safety management. safety director, safety consultant, different things like that. So it's all gonna depend on your education level. Everything got a different education level and different you know, skill sets a little bit. So I would say if you're trying to get into the field, you know, at least start with some of the certification levels, like Ulster 10, 30, speaker-0: Or f speaker-1: because a lot of jobs now, if they're federal, are mandated, they require the employees required to at least have an OSHA team. And then you can move up to some of the higher certifications, like OSHA five hundred, that's for construction. you gotta have five years experience to get that certification. And then they got other big time certifications that they require, especially with a lot of the data center jobs that's going on, like certified health and safety, I mean construction health and safety technician, that's the CHST. That's a real good one to get. and then as you get further more advanced in your career, they got other ones like certified safety professional, C S P that's a big one. and one of the ones I have now is certified safety executive. So you you they got different levels, and it depends on where you but it's designed, the field is designed for anybody to get into it at any level. You don't have to go to college and college is still good though, but you can get in it before you go to college and you can be going to college taking courses at the same time. speaker-0: Okay. So for somebody who has no experience inside of the construction space, wants to get started, I know you say get the certifications. How do they obtain those certifications? Do you know about a ballpark or what they might be price wise? And how do they actually get a role inside of safety? speaker-1: I would say, go ahead to start with some of the basic ones at first though. Get the OSHA 10, OSHA 30 if you're just kind of like new in the field. those courses are sometimes you might if you might get lucky, some places offer for free. And if they don't, it's like really inexpensive, like less than a hundred bucks or whatever. I think it's a couple of online sites, like Click Safety. They do offer those Ultra 10s, Ultra 30. Now the don't take those for granted though, even though those are entry level positions. If you already have one of those certifications and you go apply to work at a company, especially during construction around the United States now, they would hire you quicker than they would somebody who didn't have that. Because a lot of projects, if they're federally mandated by the government, they might say, Well, all your employees gotta have that certain safety training. And then sometimes your job or even your your current job or where you work at or if you're part of a union, they offer those certifications for free. So that's the best way to kinda like get in f at at an entry level. And it and then as you move on, you can s look at the more advanced levels though. Say if you wanna go ahead and move up from there and get a OSHA five hundred or they got a five ten, you gotta get before the five hundred. You can go from there. They got so many different safety courses and they got even specialty courses from you might wanna learn more about crane, you might wanna learn more about electrical and FPA seventy E. You might wanna learn more about different things like that. But s what what I see a lot of people make the mistake on, I think they always wanna wait for somebody to pay for those courses for you. Nowadays you can get those courses really like dirt cheap and they got a lot of sites out on the internet. You can go take the course and Boom. I'm a I'm a strong believer. I heard Denzel Washington say one time in an interview, it's better to be prepared for an opportunity than wait for one to come. Because that's normally what happened when they kinda like bid these jobs out, they're gonna say what the requirements are for the safety manager that's gonna be out there and for all the employees. And so they just can't hire people off the street. and and if you already got those training and and even some employers, they allow you to come on board, even if you haven't finished the training yet. They say, Okay, hey, you tell me working on this particular course, you already enrolled, that still is a a is a good advantage for you. speaker-0: So I would like to talk about money. What is the earning potential inside of the safety roles? Starting out entry level, what it looks like to get becoming a safety manager or consultant. What does that look like? speaker-1: Okay. So I remember I I've been involved in it over twenty years, like I said. I remember the early days, it was still and I know the economy and times done changes and I'd laugh about it though. It's good. The thing is, if you start off at an entry level position, you still come going to make some decent money. And I'm saying when I say decent, probably in a fifty, sixty, seventy thousand dollar range, and that's probably gonna average around about maybe f anywhere from fifteen dollars an hour on up to twenty five, thirty and even forty dollars an hour in some cases. and then the mid range would probably be, you know, for people with a little bit more experience, and been doing it maybe, you know, three to four, five years, somewhere in there. You could be in the range of probably making sixty, seven, eighty, or some people even get closer in the ninety and and really borderline the six figure range. That's not unusual. And as long as you got the certifications and probably at at three to four, five years experience. I had one guy that worked with me a few years ago. He only had three years experience and he went to go horton for a data center. he had all his certifications though and they was paying him ninety dollars an hour. And I was with but that's different in different environments though, because he went up north to Ohio so Regions play a big deal too. in the South is a little bit more tougher market than like being in Ohio, Virginia, Maryland, New York area, probably even California for cost of living. And then when you get up as a senior level, a little bit more advanced level, those careers like up there with doctors and lawyers, you're in the sixth figure, one fifty. two hundred. I know a lot and you know, I have guys always come up to me though, they want to change their careers and they want to get into safety now because they say safety, you know, is is up there and I kinda like watch how the industry changed. And like I said earlier, the you know, you know, organizations decide to put more money into, you know, prevent accidents from happening. So they're willing to make those investments like they would pay a law firm or pay a a doctor. or something like that. So they'll spend that money on on safety to kinda like make sure that they don't have those complications and stuff like that. speaker-0: I wanna switch over to working with the business owners. What is it about small businesses and how they should pay attention to the importance of safety and not thinking that it's just a large company thing? What is the misconception there that needs to be corrected? speaker-1: Well, it's so funny you bring that up. It ties into the the cost to having using a safety professional. For small businesses, I think they struggle with that. They look at it as a major cost and they don't want to spend that money because I always say, look at the equivalent. It's like if you a lot of small businesses, I can't afford to have a full even some big businesses, mid sized a lot, they can't afford to have a full time attorney on staff or full time doctor on staff. So they look at, hey, it's gonna be tough to have a full time safety person on staff. The only thing about it is that for where small businesses struggle at and you'll see 'cause you done been to some of the advanced Whitney, that it's gonna be a requirement even if you're trying to get on any kind of jobs nowadays and the requirements don't really went up dealing in the data center world. You could be end up spending more on your safety cost than actually building the building if you're not careful. But the but they don't want but you gotta kinda figure out a way to maneuver it. Now we it's a lot of companies like the company I'm with, Brown Safety Consultant. What we do, we work with small companies to help them, you know, maneuver through that maze because what basically happens, you don't have to bring on a full time safety person to bring us on as a retainer part time. But the other people don't know what level arrangement you have with us. The done companies like that, small businesses. They might have me on as a you know, designated as their safety director or safety manager, but they're using me on a periodic basis and we kinda like don't hit up for, you know, those, really high numbers. It's not like they gotta put a safety professional on on staff and pay a hundred and fifty. That's more than what the CEO of the company might be making. Mhm. But there's, you know, like I say, it's ways to to deal with that. You just can't sweep it up under the rug and say, okay, I'm gonna make my and that's what you see a lot. You you can't make the CEO, the project manager, the superintendent and the safety manager 'cause the c the a lot of the bids and stuff that you go for, they're not gonna even allow it because they're gonna act like, well, okay, you gotta have a safety manager on staff or and we need he got to have these type of credentials like an OSHA five hundred. a CHS T data centers require that. And if you don't got that, boom, and you can't fake it out. A lot back in the day before technology, you used to can fake it out though, but now they can go online, check it out and know for sure what's going on. And so I think that's the biggest struggle with a lot of small companies and they try to, you know, sweep it up under the rug and figure they can get through the system. And you know, can't. And so like when they go in for competitive bids, You can take a small organization who got their stuff together and they got somebody that's, consulting and working with them. They making sure everything is tight and, safety wise. And you got the other company, you can look at them on paper, they don't got nothing together. Now that they up for the bid, they trying to get pulled all that stuff together. So those companies like the Turner's Holders, Archer Western, all the big companies, because I worked for too. We looking at their stuff and be like, Hey, they don't got nothing together over here. We rather go with this small vendor because, they they seem like they really on top of their safety. speaker-0: I love that. So what are some tips that you could tell a s small business owner who has maybe five to ten employees? What are some basic practices that they or policies and procedures that they can actually implement? speaker-1: One of the things I would say, don't try to do it on your own. That's where a lot of companies go wrong at. Get with a company like us or, Brown Safety Consultant and bring in somebody like me and we can help you implement those policies and procedures. One of the things that we'll we'll take a first look at ahead of time is like when you 'cause they're gonna make you get your workers comp, like where your EMR rate is at. And we'll talk a little bit more of that in detail here. You know, we'll help make sure we got that part done. make sure you, help you draft up a safety program or plan that's gonna be you know, geared towards your company. A lot of times I'm working with an organization, some organizations in the past. You gotta have a site specific safety plan. So you can't you've been for a project to work with Turner or or I can't remember all the names, Holder and Archer Western. They wanna see a site specific safety plan. And then one of the things, the low hanging fruit that get a lot of people, is making sure your employees are trained. So it's better just to go ahead and say, Okay, let's do all get our employees trained with OCTN. That's really easy. And those some of those things don't really have no cost. You can do it on your you can't set up the training and go online and find some training. Or you could bring somebody like me in and we could do the training like you p you contact Brown Safety Consultant, we'll come in there knock out the training, any training you need. I just did one for a small company, a few weeks ago. They was based in they based here in Atlanta, but they was doing some work at a military base in Columbia, South Carolina. And the people wouldn't let go and do the train they wouldn't let do they work because they didn't have their people trained in scaffolding. Now this company been doing scaffolding for a minute though. They knew what they was doing, but they didn't have the proof or the certifications that they workers was training. building scaffolding and they just so happened to get on a military base and they get happened to get a contract with a military base. I think they was like the third party 'cause they they was working for a G C and they came back and said, Hey, y'all can't do y'all work until y'all get your people trained. And that's when they contacted us and we got them squared away. So that's some of the big but I always tell people don't wait till 'cause the mistake they made was they waited till the last minute. And by waiting 'til the last minute that could mess you up though, 'cause they could've the the other organization could have kicked them off the contract altogether and went with somebody who already had all their stuff together. speaker-0: Yes, I so you that's a perfect segue into my next question, which is what are some consequences of poor safety practices? Like what do those OSHA penalties look like, workers' compensation claims like? What are some of those consequences? speaker-1: Well the biggest one, I think what people don't understand is like on EMRs though, because the when you're dealing with the insurance and that's like a credit score, if you have like a lot of safety issues and I I equate that to like people who have car accidents and different things like that, your insurance rate go up, that your scoring system, or like you got credit And you ain't making your payments, you're you're you're you're you're gonna get downsized. Well in in in in the world of of contractors and stuff like that, if you get a EMR below one point zero because you're you don't have all your safety stuff together and you're having a lot of issues, nobody's gonna give you a contract. That's the first thing they're gonna look at. It's like you might as well just pack up your stuff y a and and find something else different to do. Because the deal is is that nobody's gonna wanna kinda take the risk and and work with you. a and and like I say, a lot of times too you can get ran off of projects. I remember where I worked with a company years ago. They was working at Lockheed, and they was a matter of fact was a roofing contractor. And Lockheed had already had some experiences where they had lost a s a death to an employee working out there from another contractor. So they in probably they got that three strike you out rule. They end up kicking the company off the the whole company lost their whole contract. And nobody didn't get hurt though. I think it was that. They just kept telling them, make sure you have your safety tight on the roof. They was leaving like on rooftops you gotta have you know a guardrail system or full fraud protection. I think they just left the chain off the hook. where they had to shoot at, but by leaving the chain off and they they had that little small opening, employees or somebody can fall through there. And I think the company, if I remember correctly, the company had gave them three warnings about it the first time they said something and I think that first time they told they had to get us, tighten up on the safety and bring it in safety manager. Then the second time I think they actually made them remove their superintendent and project manager. and and they had to get a whole new team out there. That's kind of stuff they ended up doing. And then the third time they same thing, they end up telling them, hey, it's like they kicked them off the job, the whole company. They say, Hey, we don't even want to do business with you no more. And then finally, like almost a year later, they end up suing them because they had to bring in a whole nother company to finish up the work. And that had some cost associated with it. And so that's why you gotta have bonds and different things like that in the construction industry. Bonds and insurance. So they wanted them to pay for them having to go through making those kind of changes. So those are some of the ex major things that could occur if you really don't have everything together. speaker-0: And you spoke about the EMR or the what is it, the experience modification rate score. What should the score look like and where can they find it? speaker-1: Okay, you can define that if you contact your l your insurance insurance carrier, your workers comp carrier. So normally how they measure that is if you just getting you new business starting off, you're gonna give you a basis score of one one point zero. And so what happens is that it's gonna always it's gonna stay a one point zero for a minute until you prove yourself. And over time, maybe a year or two. Say you had no accidents, it started to go down. you go down to 0.8 or 0.7 or whatever. Now if you have had accidents and issues, well, it's gonna go the opposite way. It's gonna go probably from a 1.0 to 1.2, 1.3 and all that. So a lot of times, right, I hear companies always say, I can't aff I don't want to spend money on safety, but that's really where you getting a bang for your buck. Because take for example, I know workers comp and the one that's really killing a lot of companies now is fleet insurance, for the autos and stuff like that. By working with a safety consultant company like Brown Safety Consultant or myself or whatever, we come in there, we could no matter how much you pay to have someone like us, by us helping keeping them insurance premiums down, you can really, you get you you We're paying for ourselves pretty much. Because you like using us f because you won't have to pay those high premiums. Some companies paying billions and dollars and thousands of dollars for insurance premiums. So an example of that would be like say you have a contractor that does framing work. I'm gonna use that. And they got a mod rate of a EMR rate of like zero point eight. Well, their insurance premium might only be if they got twenty workers. They might be paying maybe, I'm gonna just take throw a number out there, twenty-five thousand dollars a month, or that's what their premium is. but you take a company who have a experience mod rate of say one point two, well they might be paying eighty thousand dollars a month because they didn't have some issues right there. So by having somebody that can help manage that and get your numbers where you need to be. you can lower your cost and you won't have to pay those higher premiums anymore. And then also it makes you very, very competitive because all the jobs I know about, whether it's at, you know, working for data centers, airports, transit systems, mother, whatever, and even all the G C you gotta have a w mod rate you know, below one point anyway. So if you got a mod rate that's climbing and it's above a a one You gotta get that lower before you even, expect to even get a job. speaker-0: So how do they actually go about if it is above a one point nil, how do they get a chance to improve and how long does that take to improve and what do they do? It speaker-1: Do take a little time though. So by bringing the sometimes the insurance company would give you credits say if they know you gotta you're using a s a safety manager, a safety director, you submit their resume, they're gonna give you a credit because you're kinda like doing that and then with that safety manager or safety he's gonna have to kinda like look at where the weakness is at, where we have a shortcomings at, say if they have an accident. how we gonna kinda manage that and move forward, keep the accidents down, implement stuff like training, claims management, because some of the stuff that we can do is like, say for example, before you go to the h emergency room, it's gonna be viewed as a lot much more serious and a and everybody gonna go crazy. Or Example, say for example, if an employee and companies hate this one, it's only because they not not really knowledgeable. Say if you got an employee that sit at get hurt and he go home, well, what happens is that the insurance companies don't like that. You know, they call that lost time rate and they really gonna hit you over here 'cause now they gotta pay them that send them a check for workers' comp every day they sitting at home. I believe it's like eighty percent of their pay. But if you got a strong return to work program and and we have implemented that for organizations, say if a company bring a guy back and I believe people people could come back. If the doctors say you ain't bedwritten, we could find work for you to do is just filing papers, sweeping the floor or whatever. That way we can help keep the, keep the employee really doing stuff. Maybe you could run errands, drive people around, different things like that, versus just sitting at home collecting checks. So it's like s different things you implement over time and that and manage that whole process and it requires somebody, you know, a company like ground safety consultant and myself to come in there and do that to help you get past that versus just, you know, letting it go. And that's what we see a lot of companies do. And they got a lot better though, because workers comp was a big problem, you know, ten, twenty years ago. But companies have been got a lot more proactive and They want it to be more competitive now and keep those stop having to pay all those high insurance premiums by having all those issues. speaker-0: So beyond keeping their EMR scope below one point what are some other metrics that small businesses need to identify to show that they're responsible in order to get some of these bid opportunities? speaker-1: I say, you wanna kinda like what I look at because I've seen it happen all the time. Don't be the company who wait to the last minute to get everything together. And it's like going back to what I was saying earlier about the you know, being you know, better prepared for the opportunity when the opportunity exists. So say for example, I mean, right now they I think I seen they got plans to build like at least another fifteen data centers here in Atlanta. I mean in in Georgia. And so if you already know you're a business, you want to start going after working for some of the GCs or some of them data center jobs, look at that as a component. Start getting your safety component together. Advanced. Don't wait until the day of the bidding process and and and and and try to do that. When you when you're looking at order, you know, getting your organization and your team together, yeah, bring in your project manager and your superintendent. and forming and start bringing other teams and estimators, but also bringing your somebody, in safety or or like I say, go with a company like us on Brown Safety Consulting that help us help you with that part because the way those bids go is they have what's called design engineering phase, construction and operations. A lot of times, most of the time a small business company gonna come in. during the construction phase. But even when your estimator go there, I we see it all the time, they doing the estimate, but they ain't taking safety into consideration. Then what end up happening, they have a lot of safety components do jobs and you gotta have everybody gotta wear certain types of PPE and they'd be like, well we can calculate that in our costs, where it might be certain type of equipment they might need for safety, like lifts. And all that stuff 'cause they say you can't use letters, And they'd be like, We didn't calculate that in our cost, but they could have caught that earlier if they would have been more, had somebody, you know, on their staff or their team that was advanced and safely. So we see that happen a lot though. So those are some of the things you want to kinda like do ahead of time that puts you and that's gonna set you apart though. I understand though, because I already know if you're a small business Your biggest struggle is always gonna be finances. And it's just tough to kinda incorporate all that stuff in advance like that. But that's why we kinda we can kinda work with you to get you squared away where you don't have to spend a whole lot of money up front though. But you just just need to fr you just gotta do some calculation and some rigid planning to get past that. speaker-0: Now, if there was one piece of advice that you can give someone that's looking to enter into construction safety and another piece of advice for a small business owner looking to get bigger bid opportunities with these larger general contractors, what would that be? speaker-1: I would say for somebody looking to get into safety and they never been in it, start going out there, taking some training courses like I mentioned earlier, Ocean Ten, Ocean Thirty. Just take as many training courses as you can, you know. And if you got time, they even got a one they got Georgia Tech offer a lot of good safety courses and degree programs. That's where I went to. And then they got Columbia Southern over in Alabama. They have a lot of good programs. But I say, they even got degree programs over there. But you can start off with the certifications first because it's a really high demand for safety people now because of all the construction going on with data centers and airports doing major modifications. So it's like one of those careers in the occupational outlook. If you go and start getting your certifications, I'd say less than a year, you'd be in the door making some decent landing. It's almost like taking a certification in some of the other popular trades hairstyling and or electricians and all that. Safety is one of those fields you can go in and start taking your certifications and you can be in the door pretty quick 'cause some companies will bring it a lot of companies, not some will bring in a lot of entry level people only because like what we talking about, this is it's a small business, they might not can't afford them. to pay for a a more experienced person. And for organized small businesses, like I say, they really just kinda like to say, hey, guys, we got we got all our we got some of our I's and Ts dotted and crossed. Let's just go ahead and make sure we got that safety component covered. Because comp you know, we can design a special program for you, whether you got a one man or two man operation, or if you got, you know, twenty five or fifty people. There's ways we can still work with you to especially nowadays in the age of IT and AI and all that. You got a lot of companies got one two man operation, but they still gotta have a safety component covered though. It's like look at it, it's like it's going to court and trying to deal with your legal issues, but you don't have a lawyer. And a lot of times I see a lot of small businesses, they try to maneuver through the bidding process and go out here and try to get jobs and stuff and people don't really tell you though, but they looking at you like, okay, you wonder why you ain't getting the callbacks where all your stuff is just getting tossed to the side because they looking at your safety. And they don't want to bring a company to work with them if they, you know, don't have no safety or no experience with sitting the stuff up because they have that exposure too. So you wanna come and work for a company and they look at they looking at I just helped a company not too long ago get a winning contract with a data center project and that was the first thing they asked to see their financials and they asked to see their safety, all their safety documentation. It's like their safety plan and you know, how they got their safety set up and all that kind of stuff. So you gotta produce that and don't try to do it on your own. That's why you need to call us. ground safety console and or myself and we can probably help get all that stuff set up. And then that way when you go in, that company won that bid too. But I guarantee you if that project if if the owner or the project manager would try to just throw something together, they probably won't win that bid for that contract. Now they're gonna make millions of dollars. speaker-0: That's awesome. Before we go, I always like to ask my guests, do you have an ask? Anything that you want to share, push, you have an ask. speaker-1: Okay, when you say I ask, well, one of the things I would say though, I guess I'm really, you know, believe in supporting minority businesses. I think, you know, don't quote me on this. Like I think in America, minorities, the African American community, I think we bring in like one point two trillion dollars. I think what we should really do is like I ask for Just try to support as many minority African American businesses as you possibly can. Because we do got the resources, but I think sometimes we just get lost into in other things and we should just, really try to focus on supporting each other. 'Cause if we do that a lot, we we'll we'll be in a much, much better position. I think about the guys when they started Black Wall Street back in the twenties and thirties, they was in a They didn't have cell phones, they have internet, they didn't have AI or none of that kind of stuff. But I remember looking at some of the documentaries, they said the guys would always say, Hey, you go to one business, the other business say, make sure you go down there and support the other business, the other minority black business. And that's what I really I would ask of our, community, because that's gonna open up more doors though, also too, because as we get more black businesses become successful, they can, you know We'll put those businesses in those positions where they can hire people and, create more opportunities and more jobs and different things like that. But we have to kinda keep the money going flip our money and keep it within our own community. Awesome. So that would be my ask. speaker-0: How can the people support your business and contact you? speaker-1: Okay. you can contact me on at at our company website, Brown Safety Consultant dot com. I'm on LinkedIn, at I can't it's like D Johnson. and you know, you can also I'm on Facebook too. I I like I think internet is social media, you gotta have a social media presence. And you can contact me at any of those locations. And also, you know, I'll throw my number out there, six seven eight nine three three seven four zero one. Feel free to contact me anytime if you got any questions or anything you need any any additional information you might need to know about safety. speaker-0: Awesome. Thank you so much, Darren, for your time. It's been awesome. speaker-1: I was glad to come and support you when you told me what you was doing. I say, Let me support somebody else to s trying to 'cause I know the the people who came before me, they used to tell me the same thing, you know, my mentors, hey, make sure you look out for the next person coming up. So I was glad to, you know, come out here and support you and support your your your your thing. speaker-0: It's greatly appreciated. Thank ya. All right.