Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to David Gillespie-Pratt about his choice of Spearhead from Space (4/4)

Transcript

Talks to David Gillespie-Pratt about his choice of Spearhead from Space (4/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife. They're doing quicker, quicker.
• 0:37
  Hello and welcome back to Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife,
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  the Doctor Who Commentary Podcast.
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  And we're here with episode 4 of what some people consider to be
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  one of the greatest Doctor Who stories of all time.
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  Certainly one of the classic series.
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  It's the final episode. It is the critical moment of
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  spearhead free space we've. We've decided it's the weakest
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  of this season, but in a season this good, that's still a high
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  endorsement. This is everything's been
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  building to this point. We were just talking sort of off
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  camera there, like how well Robert Holmes has structured
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  this story. They're actually Episode 4 is
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  probably the strongest of the four because there is so much
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  going on here. You've got set pieces, set
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  pieces, imagery, and a conclusion that actually works
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  and that the story doesn't really Peter out.
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  I mean, it depends on your tolerance for gurning and
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  tentacles, but. David, have you had many hairy
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  tentacles coming at you in your life?
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  Thankfully not, not too many, but I would remember, you know,
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  something, you know, particularly with the
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  realization of the nesting consciousness in its tank
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  looking a little bit rude. It's going to stop pulsating.
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  You know That's right. Much to the amusement of your
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  husband. Yes, I would say he he did point
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  it out and then every time when it started pulsating, you know,
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  kind of kept referring to it. And you know, I will not
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  encourage him to listen to this because I'm going to get such a
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  telling off saying why did you tell him that?
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  Because it's funny and it. Again, the bum hole wolf death.
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  It's the nesting's bum hole. So what are you talking about?
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  This is the perfect podcast for that sort of language.
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  I still to lower the tone. Oh, that's fine.
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  Yeah, he probably fixed you. Come on and have these
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  sophisticated conversations. He.
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  Doesn't realise you're hanging out here, you know.
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  Wow. Well, we both said.
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  Well, we went. Quiet.
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  There. Well, let's see what this
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  fabulous episode has to offer, shall we?
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  You started us all. Count us in.
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  Yeah, in 54321. Off we go.
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  General Scobie in terrible. Danger in terrible.
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  Danger from this very plastically strange looking man.
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  Yeah, just say Madame Tussauds doesn't.
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  He ends up Madame Tussauds with his with his wristwatch.
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  I mean, it's interesting this exhibit in Madame Tussauds of,
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  you know, there's General Scobie person like obviously do I do
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  like the the little flourish with the title zoom in.
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  You know, that's what's quite nice about this point that
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  nothing settles. The style isn't quite there.
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  It's just little. Touches the ambassadors.
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  Of death infer inferno with all the the lava.
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  Yeah. And then in the next season,
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  they don't do any of it, do they?
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  It's just. Because this has been a thing
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  they've been doing. You know, every now and again,
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  every few stories, there would be these bespoke openings.
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  Seas of Death, Ice Warriors, 10th Planet, and that all stops.
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  Oh, so these globes that have come down then their brains?
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  Yes, they're all part of the big Nestine brain.
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  So what I mean, I know they the autumns come out and start
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  murdering people horribly and things like that, but what's the
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  plan then? Oh, there's a plan.
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  Is it for that big octopus to take over the whole world?
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  Oh, they want to colonise, don't they?
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  Of course they do. They're.
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  Going to colonise and the creature is the perfect life
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  form suitable for this planet I think.
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  Let's not. Let's not pick it that bit too
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  much. Basically, the giant octopus is
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  going to live on Earth and it's going to have some autons do
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  whatever that they need to do and kill all the humans.
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  Robert Owens will be there again.
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  Look, you've got absolutely terrifying shop window dummies
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  come to life. You're ungrateful cunts.
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  Stop picking apart the plot. We're fans.
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  That's what we do. You know, it's true, you know,
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  But you know, maybe it didn't. You know how, you know, what's
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  the all sorts of they didn't care.
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  It's like because they probably weren't expecting it to be
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  pulled apart so ridiculously. It was broadcast once and that
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  was it. Who are literally putting out a
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  bit of ephemera for kids to enjoy on a Saturday night.
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  And here we are, 2024. I, I, I used, I've not been to,
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  I've only done that one convention.
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  How many of these actors, particularly those who have only
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  ever done like 2 episodes of Doctor Who, but you know, they,
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  they're doing the conventions out of it and they're like, they
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  probably don't even remember anything they did.
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  But like, we as fans know all this detail and I just wonder
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  how absolutely baffled do you remember the character, remember
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  the lines? And then because obviously we've
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  got things like the paperwork, it's like, Oh yes, well, you,
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  you've got your contract on this particular day, and this is when
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  you had your costume fitting and you were done.
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  And they probably couldn't remember a single second of it.
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  So we probably know more than they do.
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  I think you only have to point out to these people, you know,
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  you must have had something you're obsessed about when you
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  were a child. You know, everyone's got
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  something, don't they? Oh, that's the thing.
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  I mean, everyone's got a session, you know, as as Doctor
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  Who fans, as sci-fi fans, we're always mocked for being
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  obsessive. But it's like, you name any
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  interest? There's obsessive people, people
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  obsessive about football, there's people obsessive about
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  trains and all those sorts of things.
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  So what's wrong? What's wrong with us being
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  obsessive about? Doctor Who, that Lady that was
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  just over John Perry's shoulder there, that dummy, she blinked.
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  I just saw her blink. That's because they are sort of
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  wobbling about a little bit. They are.
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  They're, they're doing their absolute best to stand very
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  still. Now looking at this shot, you've
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  got the general, you've got this sort of reportly, gentlemen.
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  I've had to say poorly. And it's like, can you spot
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  which of these are the actors and which of these are the
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  dummies? Because I think.
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  Yes, Yes, you can, David. Yes you can, because which one
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  of these figures are the ones desperately trying to stand?
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  I mean, the Hamilton dice desperately stands there, not
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  reacting, not blinking, not blinking, not moving.
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  He's doing a good job. Hey, he's as egregious as the
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  robots when they're all turned off in robots of death wobbling
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  about all over the place. I mean, at least with them, they
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  had masks on so they could blink or they could at least.
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  Do you know those poor salts are kind of stuck there?
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  But it's a great image though. I think it's a what when they
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  all the dummies come to life in Madame Tussauds and start going
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  out in the middle of the night? That's a brilliant.
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  And when they break in at night and there's that proper game.
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  And that's really creepy as well, because there's also that
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  bit where Liz gets a little bit unfazed by the whole thing as
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  well. I was like, you know, from being
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  the sort of stiff ice queen in in Episode 1.
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  Now she That's probably her first moment of companion fear.
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  Yeah. But it it, you know, basically
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  if you were Mount Tussauds at night surrounded by a load of
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  waxworks in the dark, I think you'd probably be a bit jumpy as
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  well. It definitely.
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  Would be. If I walk past this alt on line
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  here in the factory, I'd be absolutely terrified.
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  I mean, I find dummies a bit scary anyway.
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  It is that parody of the human face.
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  I just find anything that doesn't express quite quite
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  terrifying. And The thing is that when you
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  watch, especially when you watch this as a kid, even in the 90s,
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  you know, the idea that shot window dummies every time you
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  see a window dummy now or even then, Autons.
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  It's just that that brilliant move of having that the hand
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  fall away, the fingers and the gun come out.
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  I think what you're getting here is it's like we we know we've
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  got limited resources because we're potentially with strike
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  action. Let's not push what we can do.
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  Let's do you know the the Autons are men in boiler suits with
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  masks and the guns. The facsimiles have just got a
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  bit of make up on but this all works it all.
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  Sometimes simplicity. I mean look what the basta
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  neurada were, just shadows. Keep it simple.
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  You make that scary. Was that a compliment to
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  Stephen? Something Steve Moffatt wrote I.
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  Can compliment Stephen Moffitt? Not too often.
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  You know, I don't want Rod getting too excited.
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  I can do it. I mean, I think he's the master
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  of me. Oh, is that candy there?
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  Yes, I mean, thank, thank God they didn't have him start to
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  come to life as well. I think UC Churchill at some
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  point, I think I might have missed that bit already.
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  Well, you know, don't blink fellas.
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  Stay still. Stay still.
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  I mean the doctor's best friends.
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  You know that lovely cuddly Churchill?
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  Oh, that famous racist that he hung out with, you know, at the
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  club with Tubby Roblins or whatever his name is.
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  And taking dinner with Mao SE Tung as well.
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  Always a terrible man. The 3rd Doctor.
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  I mean, I think that's why some people like just didn't take to
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  him at all because it was like always a member of the
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  establishment. It's like, yes, but then that's
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  what the doctor would do. He's kind of if he's stuck on
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  Earth, I need to be comfortable, so might as well ingrate.
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  He always ingratiates himself. He goes to how many royal
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  palaces on Draconia and all that.
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  So why wouldn't he ingratiate himself on?
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  I mean, he's just bought that fabulous house on Allen Rd. that
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  he went to quite a bit in the Virgin New Adventures.
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  I believe they reckon that the 3rd Doctor bought it in the
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  first place. Oh, I mean they, I think they
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  have in the comics as well because of the, the TV comics
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  that they had at the time. They they, they bore very little
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  resemblance to what was on TV because.
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  He did have a house, didn't he? He had a house.
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  He had, I think he had, he had a car, but I don't think it was
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  Bessie. It was Bertie the car because
• 11:00
  Bertie, somebody couldn't read. I'm sure it was they got the
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  name wrong and the the the artwork of Pertwee and some of
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  those is just hilariously bad. I love it.
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  I think with some of those strips they would they would
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  just draw over trout and they did and did the same strips.
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  And I think they did the same with Tom as well when he took
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  over. Because there was a picture
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  somewhere where it's clearly Hertwee's doctor, but they've
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  drawn some hair on him to try and make him look like Pertwee.
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  And it just ends up like, well who the fuck is this?
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  Look at this. They're like fuck, fuck, we
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  could all move now. And this is a great, this is a
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  great scene. I thought the line that Channing
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  has, he goes, no, they know what they have to do.
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  They will start moving out into the night.
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  I wish we could have had a location shot of them coming out
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  of Madame Tussauds at night. And this is great at night, it's
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  they've got the lights down low. And that's the advantage of
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  being on film as well, so that you can get it properly dark.
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  Oh, we're going to try and try and get through to Hibbert now,
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  see if we can have him on size. And, you know, this is where
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  we've got the the doctors that properly arrived.
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  He's kind of he's in the situation.
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  He knows what's going on. He's maybe the doctor saw, you
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  know, Hibbett doing the thing with the back of his neck and
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  it's like, that's a good way of showing that I'm thinking
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  because he picks up that particular technique.
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  About that, he said. Yeah.
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  Do you know, that feels very pert.
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  We're seeing something going. I like that.
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  I think I'll have that. The trouble is there is a bit in
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  the minute where Hibbett does try and take down.
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  The you know the bum hole. But of course, she's got this,
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  this pipe, and he's just sort of hitting a bit of metal.
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  It it's not the most dynamic attempt to smash the alien
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  conquering machine, it's the don't hit it too hard.
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  This proper is expensive, but yeah, they did.
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  Pretty good dummy acting there. They did and they were lucky
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  that they didn't get spotted because there's all the I know
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  who's here. There's there's only Scooby
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  there. So they don't pick up on the
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  Doctor being an alien so much, which I think in different times
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  it will be like there's an alien life form here.
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  We can sense him. It's like, no, he can't tell
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  which is good because that would that if there's a 7 pass, that
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  would be a subplot. Straight to UNIT HQ there, he
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  said. The Facsimiles Brigadier,
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  they're moving and by tomorrow they would have taken over the
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  whole country. And again, more, more sort of
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  the school, he says, you know, they go about Hibbetts, he goes
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  Hibbetts. And it's like, yeah, that he's
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  completely superfluous now. So even in the writing and in
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  the with the characters, in case that he is.
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  Yes, it's pulsating. The is very much pulsating.
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  It's sort of cling film against the glass there as well, isn't
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  it? Yes, I think.
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  What's all that gunk? That is the nesting
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  consciousness gaining corporeal form on Earth.
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  I mean, surely it's obvious. I mean.
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  I mean, I don't mean to be too crude, right?
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  But there is a sort of may I be crude?
• 14:07
  You can be crude. There is a sort of.
• 14:09
  Line of gay pornography, you know where?
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  But people, I don't know how to say this on a podcast.
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  Oh, spunk comes out of a bum hole.
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  And it does look a bit like that, if I'm honest.
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  I don't know if that's what they were going for.
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  I've got a feeling that's probably not what Derek Sherwin
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  and Derek Martins were going for.
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  Sorry, I never would have forgiven myself if I hadn't
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  mentioned it. You know, it's very it's very
• 14:37
  hard to know what to to kind of how to follow up from that, but
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  in storytops that. There is a.
• 14:43
  There is a we can we can segue into something which is
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  possible. One of the greatest set pieces
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  in Doctor Who history and so well done.
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  They said they were annoyed that they couldn't break the glass,
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  but I like the fact that he just lifted his hand up.
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  You hear the smash and then they're on the street.
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  It means. It's pacey, it's pacey.
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  It keeps going. They they redid this scene in
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  2005 and it's not better. It's it's worse.
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  It's no, it's done nowhere near as dynamically or free play.
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  It's just the way that camera sort of slides in and no one
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  moves for about 10 seconds. And there's the music Sting as
• 15:22
  they they didn't start to come to life and we're all Ealing,
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  Ealing High Road. Because I used to, I used to
• 15:29
  live around the corner from this and I didn't know when I moved
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  there that it's like, hang on, that's the shop.
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  And look, they put some glass on the floor so so it looks like
• 15:40
  they smashed the way out. I mean, Rose, they had the glass
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  smashing and it just looks terrible, but it's like this is
• 15:48
  a sinister sequence. It's like they're going this but
• 15:51
  when? And I'm sure I read somewhere
• 15:54
  that there was more stuff in rows that got cuts because there
• 15:56
  was something to do with the flaming sofa.
• 15:58
  And there's probably more to it. That's why Chris Eccleston fell
• 16:01
  out with the crew that that was that stump and and.
• 16:06
  Oh look, there's a Tesco in the background, you know.
• 16:10
  Oh, that poor woman was just. Standing by the wall murdered
• 16:12
  all the people waiting for their bus.
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  Murdered and it's brutal. Everyone running away, you hear
• 16:19
  an ambulance going, you know. And now somebody doesn't the
• 16:24
  different nice little stunt. I think I passed a bit when the
• 16:27
  man falls off his bike with his ham.
• 16:31
  No, we've had it. I mean, it's again when you when
• 16:35
  you know, that's the set piece and they cut away from it and
• 16:37
  that's that's it going Oh. It's enough that that's more
• 16:40
  than enough. Now it's like that.
• 16:42
  They've set the scene the the nesting autons are attacking.
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  It's really serious. And it's like now it's like this
• 16:51
  is happening everywhere. And again, it's like we don't
• 16:54
  need to see it now. We've seen enough.
• 16:55
  Let's get on and sort it. For a long, long time, this was
• 17:00
  my favorite alien invasion story.
• 17:02
  I I think there's a real sense of urgency.
• 17:05
  It's like it started it, it, it's a really good way to do an
• 17:09
  alien invasion story and just not that I'm going to keep going
• 17:13
  back to dissing Rose. They played that scene for
• 17:15
  laughs a little bit because there's like Jackie cowering.
• 17:18
  Oh, I'm so scared. That was played absolutely
• 17:23
  straight down the light and it is a brilliant sequence for it.
• 17:26
  This bit less brilliant. Yeah.
• 17:30
  Don't hit it. Don't hit it too hard.
• 17:33
  Gunk coming out of the machine. Well, not wanting to refer to
• 17:36
  your previous example. That looks sort of greeny brown.
• 17:41
  Oh no. No, no, we're not going there.
• 17:46
  I I have heard podcasts where you've had to explain certain
• 17:50
  things to people. All I say is I know what you're
• 17:54
  talking about. You don't need to explain it.
• 17:55
  That bum hole is getting very excited though, isn't it?
• 17:58
  Well, you know, it's, it's, it's tensing itself up.
• 18:01
  It's ready. It knows that there's a big
• 18:02
  climax coming. Well done I'm.
• 18:08
  Proud. I'm proud of that one.
• 18:10
  But yes, it is, it is quite, I mean taking away from what it
• 18:14
  what it accidentally looks like, it does look like a bit of cling
• 18:19
  film in a box. It is.
• 18:21
  It is compared to the the IT is. Weird.
• 18:23
  It is weird looking, but yeah yeah, it is what it is.
• 18:27
  It was now the apparently because there's Derek Sherwin
• 18:31
  again. There was a bit cut that
• 18:33
  actually was a revealed he was an autumn.
• 18:36
  So the camera would the camera and I, what I've just, I've
• 18:38
  never noticed until just now that where he's standing as the
• 18:42
  cars go past, he's quite rigid. And it's like, OK, and yeah,
• 18:48
  Hibbett's gone. I do like the way they can clean
• 18:50
  up the corpses like that, you know, total destruction, David
• 18:54
  and. They don't need to do that.
• 18:56
  They could have just killed him and that was it.
• 18:57
  Because bodies and Doctor Who have a habit of disappearing
• 19:00
  when they're no longer needed. But I think.
• 19:02
  Looks so the doctor, do you see him there getting that door open
• 19:05
  in the in the cloak and. No Sonic screwdriver and
• 19:08
  everything, he's just got small explosives on him to blow.
• 19:12
  Up this Will you speak into this microphone, please?
• 19:14
  Oh, this is. And it's the same place where
• 19:18
  they shot the action sequence in the evasion, isn't it?
• 19:20
  It is again they they, but they make it a difference as well.
• 19:24
  It's a very similar sort of battle sequence.
• 19:26
  I think this one is slightly better than the invasion one.
• 19:29
  There's a wonderful shot where an Auton swings round and shoots
• 19:32
  his gun and a whole barrel goes whop in the air.
• 19:36
  Because I think what I think the battle scene and the invasion is
• 19:39
  great. The Cybermen just sort of fall
• 19:42
  over kind of slightly limply. But here they're getting, you
• 19:46
  can see the impact on the Auton. They're not being affected.
• 19:48
  But editing is just great. It's really fast.
• 19:51
  Oh, Scooby. That was that was definitely a
• 19:55
  very slightly dramatic moment. What are you talking about if it
• 20:01
  gets about 30? Degrees.
• 20:02
  I'm doing that all the time. Yeah, but do you look like, you
• 20:07
  know, you can kind of just see the, the, the fleshy neck on the
• 20:10
  mask there? You know, it's not the best
• 20:14
  story in the world anymore. No, that's it.
• 20:17
  Yeah, we've got to drop the score.
• 20:19
  Cancel my Doctor Who. And again, the economy is like,
• 20:23
  he's not arguing. No, no, let's not have the I'm
• 20:25
  going in there. No, Doctor, you can't.
• 20:26
  And he's like, he just buckers off and does it.
• 20:29
  All of this on film where, Yeah, all of this location, it is a
• 20:33
  peek into Doctor Who that has the budget of like, The
• 20:37
  Avengers, isn't it? And what they could have,
• 20:40
  particularly if they'd had access to studios and
• 20:43
  facilities, because they're they're shooting kind of on the
• 20:45
  fly, particularly at the lab scenes.
• 20:47
  It's where they've just got some space.
• 20:48
  If they had a chance to build some sets, shoot them on film.
• 20:51
  This and. This is clever because you have
• 20:54
  the Autons coming out of one door and then you have the same
• 20:56
  ones coming out of another door and it just feels like there's a
• 20:59
  whole army. And they can look the same
• 21:01
  because they're off a production line.
• 21:05
  Yeah, of course. Yeah, and The thing is as well,
• 21:08
  it's like I remember a lot of people when they repeated this
• 21:11
  in 1992 thousand going, you know, this is great story to
• 21:15
  start a complete repeat. I think the plan was to show all
• 21:19
  the colour stories. I mean that was that's an
• 21:21
  ambitious repeat season. And as much as I love Silurians,
• 21:25
  it's like Can you imagine as a new viewer you've watching
• 21:28
  Doctor maybe for the first time glorious on film, all colour.
• 21:32
  And what do we have after this? Not only is it back to normal
• 21:37
  studio video, it's colourised as well and it opens the.
• 21:43
  Whole of death. And I just think whoever thought
• 21:47
  let's repeat everything, it's like you killed it with showing
• 21:50
  salaries. And I think salaries is a good
• 21:51
  story. But if you're trying to
• 21:54
  encourage a new audience, I think they should have should
• 21:59
  have done what they did in the early 90s, which is one story
• 22:01
  per doctor. Pick a good story per doctor,
• 22:04
  because that's kind of how I started to get into it because
• 22:07
  you get a real flavour of everything.
• 22:10
  I think now when with the iplay and everything, when I see
• 22:14
  people on Twitter, everything. Oh, I fancy watching the classic
• 22:17
  series. Where should I start?
• 22:18
  And people say go to watch an earthly child and watch it from
• 22:21
  the start. No, watch it random.
• 22:23
  Watch it as random as possible because that's how I did and
• 22:26
  it's. Great.
• 22:26
  I would generally say this is a great jumping on point.
• 22:30
  This is a great this. Is a pace for its imagery, you
• 22:33
  know, for its scarce. I think this is because it's a
• 22:36
  reboot as well, so it is so accessible and.
• 22:40
  Actually, even this ridiculous ending with the octopus it it,
• 22:45
  it does sort of prepare you for some other stuff that you're
• 22:48
  going to get if you continue to explore Doctor Who.
• 22:51
  And it's that kind of here it comes.
• 22:58
  The members say this is the second take, this is the this is
• 23:01
  the better one. I love I Yeah, Look, he's having
• 23:05
  to get his neck right in there. And of course, being Doctor Who,
• 23:09
  he's made this wonderful gadget that fails at just the wrong
• 23:13
  moment. But.
• 23:15
  Do you know that Derek Sherwin stole the octopus and took it
• 23:19
  home and his kids would play with it for years after this?
• 23:23
  What a very strange thing to do. Bless him and the Hammer sort of
• 23:31
  zooming in and out to give it some drama.
• 23:33
  And they've got, they've dud some lines on him as well where
• 23:36
  he's going. Hello.
• 23:38
  I've never seen a tentacle as hairy as that, I'll be honest.
• 23:41
  With you, I was going to say they, they maybe that's why he
• 23:43
  wants to take it home. It's like, you know, we've put a
• 23:46
  lot of bloody into effort into these tentacles.
• 23:48
  You know they're not going in the bin.
• 23:49
  I still think it's better than the The Terror The Autumns one
• 23:52
  with that white effect in the sky.
• 23:54
  Yeah, that doesn't look quite. I mean, that was a reaction
• 23:57
  against this as well because like, well, we can't do the
• 23:59
  rubber monster, let's do a visual effect and.
• 24:03
  God, look at that bum old. Oh God, it's in flames.
• 24:07
  Well, we've all been there. That must be very vigorous.
• 24:13
  Oh my word, all the Autons are falling down now.
• 24:16
  It's all going on, isn't? It and and that's and I think
• 24:18
  that's such again that wonderful economy that they just
• 24:20
  deactivate and showing them collapsing.
• 24:23
  It's like the creatures destroyed, the autons switch off
• 24:27
  and that make and that all works in the context of the story.
• 24:30
  There are collective intelligence.
• 24:33
  They destroy the intelligence so the force is gone.
• 24:36
  It's awesome. Are dead.
• 24:36
  Isn't it best of both worlds when he says go to sleep and
• 24:39
  they all go to sleep you? See, some people, it's a slimy
• 24:42
  mess now on channel and I don't mind that ending to best of both
• 24:45
  worlds. Some people say it's a bit of a
• 24:47
  well, no. It works.
• 24:48
  It certainly works within the concept of the Borg.
• 24:50
  Exactly. And that, and I think very
• 24:53
  similarly, this works in the context of the what everything
• 24:56
  that they've set up, what the the nestings and the Autons are.
• 24:59
  And at some point, if we're to believe Auton the spin off that
• 25:05
  they've got the doctor's machine here that he he signs it with
• 25:08
  his name, because there's a bit at the end of that film where
• 25:10
  they go, oh, it's got Doctor John Smith written on the the
• 25:14
  device. And it's like, because we can't
• 25:16
  mention the doctor at all. So we have to shoehorn it in.
• 25:20
  And that just felt like the most that really felt shoehorned in
• 25:23
  at that point here. We.
• 25:27
  Go now because I've got I shall have equipment.
• 25:29
  Be sure and that car you know. He's setting up the whole series
• 25:34
  now. It's like, it's like, it's like
• 25:36
  mission statements at the end. It's like we've got to repair
• 25:38
  the Tardis. I've got my car.
• 25:40
  There's me and Liz. I'm going to work for you.
• 25:42
  Because we'll give you a nice salary.
• 25:45
  Like dear chap, I don't want money.
• 25:47
  But he still took it because it now somebody told me because
• 25:51
  I've not read the giggle, but it's is it in the novelization
• 25:54
  of the giggle, the house that he has in that he bought because
• 25:57
  the fact he was still on salary from units and he actually had
• 26:01
  all this money he. Never cashed it in, yeah.
• 26:04
  He never cashed it in, so now he can get himself a nice a nice
• 26:07
  house out of it. So, so bloody nice that he
• 26:10
  didn't bother turning up for when you know Sutek had come
• 26:13
  back. Oh.
• 26:14
  Yeah. Now, I think it was off at that
• 26:16
  point with Donna in that he's. Often done this, yeah, but
• 26:20
  that's another conversation for another day.
• 26:22
  But it's like, oh, it could. He's being a bit of a buggy.
• 26:24
  Oh, it could be. It could persuade me to stay.
• 26:28
  Oh, you do quite job. Don't don't that big finish.
• 26:34
  Now they'll try and hire me. Yeah, they will.
• 26:36
  Tim. Trello.
• 26:37
  You're out. David Glaspie, Ratty Doctor
• 26:41
  Jordan Smith. Hey.
• 26:43
  Oh, look at that. And and that's a smile.
• 26:47
  And that's, you know, new Doctor, he's here.
• 26:49
  He's in charge. In terms of setting up a brand
• 26:55
  new iteration of Doctor Who, I don't think that's been
• 26:58
  bettered. I think there's a reason why a
• 27:01
  lot of showrunners later borrow from this.
• 27:06
  And I think where the TVTV movie doesn't get it right is that,
• 27:11
  yes, you've got some carry over from before, but keep it simple
• 27:17
  and, you know, make it, you know, potentially you've got a
• 27:19
  new audience here. Treat them like they, they're
• 27:24
  watching this for the first time.
• 27:25
  They've never seen Doctor Who before.
• 27:26
  They picked, they picked up or drew back viewers that they'd
• 27:29
  lost over the, the previous year.
• 27:32
  They've got 8 million. So there's, I think Doctor Who
• 27:35
  does that quite a lot. I think a lot of people always
• 27:37
  check in at the start of a they're a new series or a new
• 27:39
  Doctor because I think a lot of, even in the modern show, new
• 27:43
  doctors generally get very high. Ratings.
• 27:46
  What's strange is they do believe the viewers throughout
• 27:49
  this season. Like by the time you get to the
• 27:52
  end of Inferno, it's down to 5 million again.
• 27:54
  And then the next season, weirdly enough, is where it
• 27:57
  beds. It starts off with sort of 7 to
• 28:00
  8 million and then the demons gets like a nine or a 10 million
• 28:03
  somewhere in there. I think because they went a
• 28:06
  little bit less serious, serious sci-fi, they went a little bit
• 28:10
  more comic book and more colourful.
• 28:14
  I think that was a bit more accessible.
• 28:16
  And I, and as much as we love Liz and everything, I think it.
• 28:21
  Was a good move. You know, you need a little bit
• 28:24
  more fun. It's a very serious season.
• 28:26
  I think it's a fantastic series. Oh, I don't know if I'm returned
• 28:29
  to Seven because it is very serious.
• 28:30
  Every time I watch it, I think it's a really great season of
• 28:34
  television, not just Doctor Who television.
• 28:38
  But yeah, like I'm never. At the end of the day, I don't
• 28:40
  go. Oh yeah, I really fancy
• 28:42
  watching. It's the Silurians tonight that
• 28:45
  would cheer me up. Yeah, Silurians and I mean
• 28:47
  Inferno is a superb story. It is one of my favourite
• 28:52
  stories, but it is, it is an intense watch and you know,
• 28:57
  there's a couple of episodes. Episodes 5 and 6 of Inferno are
• 28:59
  just two absolutely of the best episodes of Doctor Who in terms
• 29:05
  of just the tone, the atmosphere, the pace,
• 29:08
  everything. But as we've said with other
• 29:11
  stories, it's not necessarily one I'll go.
• 29:13
  I'm going to watch this for fun. I'm not sure if the show would
• 29:16
  have had a long future if they had kept up this template.
• 29:21
  I think retooling it, looking at what worked in Seven, taking
• 29:25
  that forward and then bringing in a little bit more, a little
• 29:29
  more fantastic, bringing in the Master, bring a little bit,
• 29:34
  bring in more of the comedy and having the doctorate Joe as a
• 29:37
  proper double act. Out with a competent scientist
• 29:41
  and in with a ditzy blonde. In with a ditzy blonde.
• 29:44
  But who was also very capable at time?
• 29:47
  Very, very capable, depending on who was writing the script that
• 29:50
  week. But it's building on the success
• 29:54
  of the season. And I think they do the the
• 29:57
  things that work carry forward and say this is a story that
• 30:02
  casts a long shadow. People have replicated it.
• 30:05
  They've taken some of the key elements, I think.
• 30:07
  You look at TV movie, you look at 11th Hour, you look at Rose
• 30:12
  and it's like the DNA all goes back to Spearhead from space.
• 30:19
  Well, you know what's coming next, don't you?
• 30:23
  I do three fabulous things as well.
• 30:26
  I like people who have too much trouble today with spirit from
• 30:29
  space, but you go 1st and then I'll kick in after you.
• 30:31
  Oh. Well, I'm going to go obvious.
• 30:34
  I think John Pertway as the Doctor in his debut over the
• 30:40
  course of four episodes from where he has like 3 or 4 lines
• 30:43
  in episode 1, ending with that winning smile where he is the
• 30:48
  man in charge, He's charming Liz, he's trying to charm the
• 30:52
  Brigadier into getting his car. It's again, it was a gamble for
• 30:58
  the production team to put in silly voice man in a straight
• 31:01
  role and he rises to it. I think people can be a bit
• 31:07
  scathing of Pertwee at times. It's like, I think he's great in
• 31:11
  the role, he's great as a doctor and he's by the end of this
• 31:14
  story, he has nailed it. Yeah, I think most, most actors
• 31:18
  take their time to find the role.
• 31:20
  Trout and suddenly I think Tom Baker takes a little while as
• 31:23
  well. Davison for our Castro valve.
• 31:26
  But I think Pertwee from Episode 2, when he walks into the
• 31:29
  headquarters, that's when he's the doctor.
• 31:32
  And it's, it's earned and it's like they've they've built it
• 31:36
  up. It's just really well done.
• 31:38
  And I think in this season he gives, I think he gives some of
• 31:42
  his best performances in season 7 as well because I think he's
• 31:45
  playing it as straight as possible.
• 31:48
  I think in season 8 he's a little bit of an asshole at
• 31:52
  times. I think he's incredibly grumpy
• 31:56
  and he does soft. Thankfully they he softens.
• 32:00
  I don't know how much of that's in the writing or in the
• 32:01
  performance, but he's he's a little bit unlikable in the next
• 32:06
  season. But still the Doctor is still
• 32:07
  John. It's still entertaining, but I
• 32:09
  think he gets off to such a great start.
• 32:13
  My first thing then is going to be the just the inspired idea of
• 32:17
  the autumns, specifically the shop window dummies.
• 32:21
  So terrifying out on location, brilliant bursting out of the
• 32:27
  windows in the last episode. The idea of making facsimiles of
• 32:32
  characters that we trust, all of it.
• 32:35
  I just think it's a brilliantly simple and scary idea that they
• 32:40
  realize to perfection. So much so that you know
• 32:44
  everyone's been cherry picking it ever since all.
• 32:49
  Right. Second one, I think it's going
• 32:52
  to be Derrick Martins direction. I, I, I think there is more.
• 32:58
  So in the early episodes, there's those tracking shots,
• 33:02
  there's the handheld when it's in the Brigadier's face as the
• 33:06
  new in the with the reporters, you know, and some of these
• 33:09
  things they're doing on the fly because they're on location
• 33:12
  unexpectedly filming, doing stuff on film was that bit in
• 33:16
  episode 3 where they found that window in the factory and you've
• 33:20
  got Hugh Burden standing behind it.
• 33:22
  And the Brigadier turns round and he moves and he gradually
• 33:25
  just disappears. And it's like just these
• 33:27
  wonderful visual things that just lift this.
• 33:33
  And although the you know, the gruesome moment, like when the
• 33:36
  the the truck crashed as well is that we don't see the truck
• 33:39
  crash, but he sells the mess that this was.
• 33:43
  So the some of the direction in this is just superb and just
• 33:48
  lots of it. And it makes it look effortless
• 33:50
  at times as well. I think you sometimes you don't
• 33:53
  notice great direction. You notice bad direction.
• 33:56
  But there was there was so many, there was shots that I was
• 33:59
  noticing watching that today that I've never really paid that
• 34:02
  much attention to before. But he also knows where to cut
• 34:06
  as well. So the editing is also really
• 34:10
  well done. So yeah, the direction I think
• 34:13
  is some of the best of the classic series.
• 34:17
  He was editing like fast-paced Doctor Who as far back as the
• 34:21
  War Machines that that action sequence at the end of the third
• 34:24
  episode of the War Machines. It's just cut, cut, cut in a
• 34:28
  time when cut cut, cut didn't exist.
• 34:31
  You know, as a staggeringly competent director, I think and,
• 34:36
  and. If this is, you know this is his
• 34:38
  last one. If you're going to bow out doing
• 34:40
  Doctor Who, have you done it for a number of years?
• 34:43
  This is a good one to go out on. I'm going to keep complimenting
• 34:48
  Robert Holmes then and say that the idea of taking a show with
• 34:53
  endless possibilities of travelling through time and
• 34:56
  space and setting it on Earth, the person who has to write that
• 35:01
  script and sell that idea, that is not an enviable task.
• 35:06
  And what he does here is turns in one of the paciest, most
• 35:09
  exciting, most scariest Doctor Who's ever and says no, If
• 35:14
  you're going to have Book 2 set on Earth, it's going to be the
• 35:17
  best Doctor Who you've ever seen.
• 35:18
  And I think just showing the potential of it here is so
• 35:22
  impressive. It's a story people still Lords
• 35:26
  today, but I think this sets the template for what's coming and
• 35:31
  so I think it's just a very impressive thing to pull off
• 35:34
  because if they'd have got this wrong we would have been in
• 35:38
  trouble. Exactly.
• 35:42
  Oh, I'm going to pick something and you might be crossing
• 35:45
  because you might have picked this one.
• 35:47
  I'm going to pick. Meg God damn it, that was going
• 35:49
  to be my third. Come on.
• 35:51
  I mean, we got more mileage talking about Meg Sealy and I
• 35:55
  think probably anyone has ever done ever.
• 35:57
  But what a just a, a small, not even a secondary character.
• 36:03
  She's she doesn't do a lot, but bloody hell, she's memorable and
• 36:09
  oh, she's just great. You watch your tongue and don't
• 36:12
  you think I'm having that dirty old box in my house?
• 36:16
  Good memorable character and you could just I think we all know
• 36:20
  people. We've all known people like that
• 36:22
  as well. I love.
• 36:23
  Strong as nails our women characters here she's a.
• 36:26
  She's a proper battle axe and she rules him as well,
• 36:31
  basically. Nora Batty and Doctor Who isn't
• 36:33
  it because. He tries.
• 36:35
  He he there's a way he does not talk about getting dinner or
• 36:38
  something like that. But you know who, you know who
• 36:39
  rules the rooster in that he thinks he tries, But you know
• 36:45
  the big finish. If you want to do a spin off, do
• 36:47
  those get those to do the series being sent off by unit on a
• 36:52
  series of undercover operations? Then my last thing is going to
• 36:57
  be what I think is, again, another savvy move on Robert
• 37:02
  Holmes's part, but also on the part of Caroline, John and
• 37:07
  Nicholas Courtney. And that is just creating two
• 37:10
  really memorable regulars. Because if we're on Earth, we're
• 37:15
  no longer doctor and companion. We're doctor and ensemble.
• 37:19
  And I just think they were brilliant at the the the
• 37:21
  immediate chemistry and tension in that first scene they have
• 37:27
  together in episode 1, right up to like what you said, when he's
• 37:32
  teasing her after the doctor tries tricks her into taking the
• 37:35
  key. I think it's wonderful and it
• 37:38
  does thread through the season. I know it becomes more the
• 37:41
  doctrine, Liz, but there's still, there's still wonderful
• 37:46
  moments with the Brigadier in this throughout the season.
• 37:49
  But I think, yeah, we need a strong cast of characters if
• 37:53
  we're going to stay on Earth. And both Caroline John and
• 37:57
  Nicholas Courtney, they'd make her an impressive debut here.
• 38:01
  They do. And they and they're butting
• 38:04
  heads in the at the end of Inferno a little bit as well,
• 38:06
  because she says something like he talks about the doctor in a
• 38:11
  way. And she said, Oh, I wish that
• 38:12
  that's so. It's like, I wish that was what
• 38:15
  I didn't like about you or something like that.
• 38:17
  Actually, she's hostile towards him because the doctor's gone
• 38:19
  off. So it's like there's still a
• 38:21
  little bit of tension between where we now and again.
• 38:24
  Baby, she didn't get a leaving scene, isn't it?
• 38:27
  I know they didn't know and you know, more like she probably
• 38:32
  expected to be back for next year.
• 38:34
  So she didn't know, but yeah. And she was pregnant anyway so I
• 38:38
  know she had to go. She had to go, and I think we
• 38:41
  don't. We talk about Liz's right sudden
• 38:43
  departure in the same way people talk like Dodo getting
• 38:46
  dispatched and Ben and Polly. You know that she's in that
• 38:50
  sense. Because she never goes in the
• 38:51
  TARDIS, does she? So it doesn't really matter.
• 38:53
  Because she doesn't have a rubbish leaving scene where
• 38:56
  she's written out really inexplicably.
• 38:59
  Or get she. Basically, yes, she's basically
• 39:02
  had enough of your doctrine left.
• 39:04
  So I think of the some of the Companion Chronicles and some of
• 39:07
  the books set between 7:00 and 8:00.
• 39:09
  They really do make a thing of actually, she doesn't really
• 39:12
  enjoy being part of the Doctor's world or being secondary to him.
• 39:18
  She wants to be her own person. And there's a wonderful Big
• 39:21
  Finish, a story called Primal, which is both a sequel to
• 39:27
  Inferno, and it's Liz Shaw coming into a Joe Grant story
• 39:32
  and having Daisy Ashford and Katie Manning played together,
• 39:36
  where John Dooney, who's one of the best Big Finish writers,
• 39:39
  gets to actually have those things play out between Liz and
• 39:43
  the doctor. And like, This is why I left.
• 39:46
  And yeah, it's it's that's what Big Finish can do really well is
• 39:50
  sometimes tick some of those boxes that the that the TV
• 39:53
  series have left. They can.
• 39:56
  They can do it. They can still do it.
• 39:58
  Just need to remember to do it. A bit more often.
• 40:03
  Well, David, where are we heading next?
• 40:06
  We see this is this is one of those daft things I was, I was
• 40:08
  thinking about before going. We're going to have that
• 40:10
  question of where we're going next.
• 40:13
  I don't know because I think it's like I don't, I don't know
• 40:16
  where to go next because we've got so many possibilities.
• 40:20
  Well, I mean, I can tell you 2 places we're definitely going
• 40:23
  because we're covering another book on the book club and we're
• 40:28
  going to be doing Babylon 5 for Hamster Extra very soon.
• 40:32
  As well, so we're going to two very different locations.
• 40:35
  We're at Time Worm Revelation, which I picked and I apologised
• 40:40
  for and we're going to Babylon 5.
• 40:42
  But So what we've done, we've done First Doctor, we've done
• 40:46
  third, we've done 4th and we've and.
• 40:49
  We've avoided the 80s like the plague.
• 40:51
  We have avoided the 80s like the plague, so maybe we should go to
• 40:56
  the 80s, but if there's an 80s one that you haven't done or
• 40:58
  done recently or want to do again.
• 41:03
  You, you intrigue me. What's What are your favourite
• 41:07
  80s stories? See, I'm on the spot now and
• 41:13
  it's like quite a lot. A lot.
• 41:15
  Most of it's McCoy. I think the McCoy stuff is is I
• 41:20
  think we did see survival previously, but then we we
• 41:22
  pivoted to the book. You know what I haven't done?
• 41:25
  I haven't done. I did Cursor Fenrick Special
• 41:28
  Edition, but I haven't done transmitted Cursor Fenrick the
• 41:33
  four episodes. Are you a fan?
• 41:36
  I'm a fan and I know what you think of some parts of Cursive
• 41:38
  Fenrick because I've listened to.
• 41:40
  So let's do Cursive Fenrick. Oh, it's a date.
• 41:45
  Oh my God, how wonderful. You can tell me where I'm going
• 41:47
  wrong all these years or? Will you sway me down to the OR
• 41:52
  to your way of thinking? There's so many pretty men in
• 41:55
  cursive, Fenrick. I'll be quite happy either way.
• 41:59
  David. Dope, my God.
• 42:00
  Fabulous stories to talk about. We've got three exciting new
• 42:04
  adventures ahead of us. Thank you very much for your
• 42:07
  time tonight. Thank you for having me on
• 42:09
  again.