Latest / Beautifully Complex / 334: The Real Work of Raising ND Young Adults (Part 2), with Debbie Reber

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334: The Real Work of Raising ND Young Adults (Part 2), with Debbie Reber · Beautifully Complex

0:03
Speaker 1: Hi there, friends, I have a really special episode for
0:06
Speaker 1: you today. This is part two of a two part
0:09
Speaker 1: crossover with my friend Debbie Reeber, a full tilt parenting podcast.
0:14
Speaker 1: In part one, which aired earlier this week over on
0:17
Speaker 1: Debbie's show, episode four seventy four, we talked about what
0:21
Speaker 1: it really means to launch a neurodivergent young adult, how
0:25
Speaker 1: our definitions of launching have evolved over the years, and
0:29
Speaker 1: the surprising ways that our kids still needs catholding and
0:32
Speaker 1: support from us. We also dive into the difference between
0:36
Speaker 1: independence and interdependence and what that actually looks like in
0:42
Speaker 1: practice in real life. This conversation was like therapy for me.
0:46
Speaker 1: Y'all honest, real, validating. There is no perfection here. Debbie
0:53
Speaker 1: and I are showing you our real life experience. So
0:57
Speaker 1: if you haven't listened to part one yet, cause this
1:00
Speaker 1: one and go check it out first, then come back
1:03
Speaker 1: here for Part two for more of our real life conversation.
1:07
Speaker 1: Debbie and I talk about boundaries, burnout, and what it
1:10
Speaker 1: looks like to support our kids without losing ourselves in
1:14
Speaker 1: the process. We share the behind the scenes support we're
1:18
Speaker 1: still giving our young adults, the judgment that we have
1:21
Speaker 1: sometimes faced for that, and how we're learning to trust
1:24
Speaker 1: that long game, the big picture, even when progress looks
1:30
Speaker 1: so different. So let's get into it. Welcome to Beautifully Complex,
1:37
Speaker 1: where we unpack what it really means to parent neurodivergent
1:40
Speaker 1: kids with dignity and clarity. I'm Penny Williams, and I
1:44
Speaker 1: know firsthand how tough and transformative this journey can be.
1:49
Speaker 1: Let's dive in and discover how to raise regulated, resilient,
1:52
Speaker 1: beautifully complex kids together. Oh and if you want more support,
1:57
Speaker 1: join our free community at hub dot beautifully complex dot life.
2:05
Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome back to Beautifully Complex. I am so
2:11
Speaker 1: thrilled to have wie reeber A full till parenting here
2:14
Speaker 1: with me. We started our conversation on launching which we
2:20
Speaker 1: both use air quotes if you're listening around launching our
2:25
Speaker 1: neurodivergent young Adults over on Debbie's podcast, so you can
2:29
Speaker 1: go over there and look up episode four seventy four,
2:34
Speaker 1: which I will also link in the show notes for you.
2:37
Speaker 1: That is part one of this conversation, and we are
2:41
Speaker 1: now going to dive into part two talking about scaffolding
2:46
Speaker 1: how to scaffold support while also teaching the skills, the
2:50
Speaker 1: life skills that our kids are going to need to
2:53
Speaker 1: be more independent, and also talk about ourselves, our own
2:57
Speaker 1: nervous system, our own boundaries, our own needs, because they
3:01
Speaker 1: are just as important. I was listening to a podcast
3:05
Speaker 1: the other day and they were saying, once you have kids,
3:09
Speaker 1: nothing else matters, and I just cringed. It was like, no,
3:14
Speaker 1: we're trying to stop that message. Debbie and I have
3:16
Speaker 1: both been working on trying to stop that message. And
3:19
Speaker 1: so you matter too, just as much. You deserve to
3:23
Speaker 1: feel good, and when you feel good, you can help
3:26
Speaker 1: your kid feel good, which then helps them to do good.
3:31
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk some about that too as
3:34
Speaker 1: we navigate young adulthood for our kids. Dewie, do you
3:39
Speaker 1: want to start talking about what scaffolding support means to
3:45
Speaker 1: you and then maybe what it looks like now that
3:49
Speaker 1: your kid is in their twenties. Yes.
3:54
Speaker 2: So I always like the visual of the scaffolding like
3:58
Speaker 2: that goes up when there's a building right now under
4:00
Speaker 2: construction or they're doing some repair work, that you build
4:04
Speaker 2: up these supports to keep everybody safe while the improvements
4:09
Speaker 2: are being made, and scaffolding then once things are starting
4:13
Speaker 2: to look better you know, we slowly take down the scaffolding,
4:18
Speaker 2: and so that's just such a good visual. So that's
4:20
Speaker 2: what I think of it as with my kiddo. But yeah,
4:24
Speaker 2: so scaffolding is kind of like it's helping our kids learn,
4:28
Speaker 2: whether it's skills or on their own personal growth journey.
4:34
Speaker 2: We talked in the last episode about you know, this
4:36
Speaker 2: idea of independence and those things, but whatever it is
4:39
Speaker 2: that they're working on to help them kind of progress
4:43
Speaker 2: so they don't get stalled and kind of stall out.
4:47
Speaker 2: It's finding ways to help them with our support, make small,
4:52
Speaker 2: meaningful steps that they can feel sense of agency over,
4:57
Speaker 2: but they also have us there in case things, you know,
5:01
Speaker 2: go off the rails. Actually, one of the terms that
5:04
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed lately is this guy Chris Baum. He
5:07
Speaker 2: wrote this book called Finding the Magic in middle School.
5:10
Speaker 2: I don't know if you read it. It's really good book,
5:12
Speaker 2: but he talks about this idea of companioning, and companioning
5:17
Speaker 2: is this idea that like, our kids are on this
5:19
Speaker 2: epic adventure and you think about like a sherpa who
5:22
Speaker 2: goes along with someone who's climbing a mountain and they're there,
5:26
Speaker 2: it's still the person's adventure. But the sharp is there
5:29
Speaker 2: to like carry some supplies, and like if they're going
5:31
Speaker 2: to step off the trail and gravely injure themselves, the
5:34
Speaker 2: sharp is there to support. And so that's being a companion.
5:38
Speaker 2: And I think scaffoldings like related to that. It's kind
5:40
Speaker 2: of remembering that this is our kid's journey and they
5:44
Speaker 2: have to have agency and control over their journey, and
5:48
Speaker 2: they also can't. We can't just like being like, Okay,
5:51
Speaker 2: you're on your own good luck. So we want to
5:54
Speaker 2: always be kind of finding that just right challenge, like
5:58
Speaker 2: where is there an opportunity, Where is our little window
6:02
Speaker 2: here where there's a skill, a fledgling skill that we
6:05
Speaker 2: can kind of push along. So that's scaffolding. But I
6:08
Speaker 2: don't remember the second part of the question.
6:11
Speaker 1: I'm going to add to that first, and then we'll
6:12
Speaker 1: go to the second part again. Because I have often
6:15
Speaker 1: used the analogy of a sharpa myself. Oh how funny,
6:19
Speaker 1: And I love that. And I love that you added
6:22
Speaker 1: the safety piece to scaffolding, because I too think about scaffolding.
6:26
Speaker 1: We have built our own house before, we've had scaffolding
6:29
Speaker 1: and used it, and I often picture that. But I
6:33
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily think about how it keeps people safe. It
6:36
Speaker 1: keeps the workers safe who are on it, It keeps
6:38
Speaker 1: people who might be underneath it safe, and we know
6:42
Speaker 1: how important that felt safety is. And so I love
6:45
Speaker 1: that you put those two pieces together. And the sherpa, Yeah,
6:49
Speaker 1: like they have experience with it, they've done this before,
6:53
Speaker 1: they know where the pitfalls might be. They can give
6:56
Speaker 1: you some guidance, but like it's still your journey. You're
6:59
Speaker 1: still having that experience and you're still saying kind of
7:02
Speaker 1: what works for you and what you want and where
7:04
Speaker 1: you want to go. And I love that. Yeah, And
7:07
Speaker 1: the term companioning is fantastic.
7:09
Speaker 2: It's a good one. Yeah.
7:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what does scaffolding look like? Maybe now for
7:15
Speaker 1: you guys or since transitioning more from like teen in
7:19
Speaker 1: high school into other things.
7:22
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot more scaffolding that I realized there
7:27
Speaker 2: would be at this point, you know, going back to
7:31
Speaker 2: in our first first part of this conversation, we were
7:33
Speaker 2: talking about our expectations for what launching would look like
7:36
Speaker 2: versus what it actually does look like. And so I
7:39
Speaker 2: think when it comes to scaffolding, and we don't have
7:44
Speaker 2: to like I'm not going to like beat that in
7:46
Speaker 2: analogy to death and you know, I'll stop talking about buildings,
7:49
Speaker 2: but you guys anologies. But you know, I think there
7:55
Speaker 2: is a sense that some of the scaffolding's going to
7:58
Speaker 2: come down, like when our kids are kind of moving
8:01
Speaker 2: forward and it'll be kind of maybe less dirty and
8:04
Speaker 2: they're you know, it's just going to be it's going
8:06
Speaker 2: to look and feel different. And so in reality, there's
8:10
Speaker 2: still been a lot of scaffolding for us. It's hard
8:13
Speaker 2: sometimes to find that just right balance. Again, going back
8:16
Speaker 2: to this idea of individuation or if you have kids
8:20
Speaker 2: who have such a strong desire for autonomy, so a
8:24
Speaker 2: kid with more of a demand I don't like the
8:27
Speaker 2: term pathological demand avoidance, but rather persistent desire or drive
8:31
Speaker 2: for autonomy. When you have those kinds of kids who
8:36
Speaker 2: really want to be doing things on their own and
8:39
Speaker 2: push back against demands, the scaffolding becomes really tricky to
8:44
Speaker 2: navigate with a young adult because it has to be
8:48
Speaker 2: much more collaborative, right. I think when our kids are younger,
8:53
Speaker 2: there's a lot of behind the scenes scaffolding our kids
8:55
Speaker 2: don't even know about, right, sure, we're just building it
8:58
Speaker 2: all the time.
8:59
Speaker 1: We're taking to building a backup, and we're just always
9:01
Speaker 1: like monitoring.
9:03
Speaker 2: When our kids are older, I think they have to
9:06
Speaker 2: be a lot more involved in understanding what you're doing,
9:09
Speaker 2: what are they comfortable with, where do they specifically see
9:13
Speaker 2: or feel that they need support, and then what are
9:16
Speaker 2: we willing to do to support. So the scaffolding is
9:19
Speaker 2: like this very collaborative process, and I think we're still
9:22
Speaker 2: scaffolding on all of the things. We're scaffolding on life
9:27
Speaker 2: skills right even you know, I'll just give you an example.
9:32
Speaker 2: The first semester that my kid was away. You know,
9:37
Speaker 2: there's no there's a food plan there, but there's no
9:41
Speaker 2: dinner served on Saturday and Sunday nights in the residence hall.
9:46
Speaker 2: So I'm like, and my kid is in the UK,
9:49
Speaker 2: So I'm like, getting you know, the app on my
9:52
Speaker 2: phone texting with my kid. What would you like because
9:56
Speaker 2: you know, there's conversion and there's like putting in a credit,
9:58
Speaker 2: like there's a lot of like high the scenes stuff,
10:01
Speaker 2: and so I would like get my kids order, then
10:04
Speaker 2: I would do the app from here in the Netherlands
10:07
Speaker 2: to the UK, and then I'd give my kid's cell
10:10
Speaker 2: phone number. I'm like, and then i'd have to like
10:12
Speaker 2: text like, this is the code for the delivery person,
10:15
Speaker 2: what's your order?
10:16
Speaker 1: They're out of this.
10:17
Speaker 2: Like it was so much back and forth, right, but
10:19
Speaker 2: I wanted my child to eat, and at the time
10:24
Speaker 2: it was too heavy of a lift, right, yeah, between
10:27
Speaker 2: doing all of the other life skill development stuff. So
10:31
Speaker 2: but then after that first semester over Christmas break last year,
10:35
Speaker 2: I was like, I think we need to put that
10:36
Speaker 2: up on your phone and I'm going to show you
10:38
Speaker 2: how to do it. And so the first time that
10:42
Speaker 2: my kid ordered, you know, back at school in the
10:45
Speaker 2: spring semester, I got a note like where should I
10:48
Speaker 2: get food from? I'm like, I don't know, what are
10:50
Speaker 2: you hungry for? But my child like did it and
10:53
Speaker 2: kept me updated. I did this, What do I do? Now?
10:55
Speaker 2: How do I should I add a tip?
10:57
Speaker 1: You know? All those questions?
10:58
Speaker 2: Ye, And now well, here we are like a year later,
11:03
Speaker 2: and I don't even know what my child eats on
11:06
Speaker 2: a Saturday or Sunday night, but I know they're eating.
11:08
Speaker 2: So that's a little example of what it looks like.
11:12
Speaker 2: So it's all the things, but it's maybe kind of bigger,
11:17
Speaker 2: more independent things that I didn't realize we're going to
11:20
Speaker 2: be coming up.
11:22
Speaker 1: And I can hear parents saying you shouldn't be doing
11:26
Speaker 1: that for your kid, right, But what I'm hearing from
11:31
Speaker 1: you is that you offloaded some of that load and
11:38
Speaker 1: you sort of faded out support. So you figured out
11:43
Speaker 1: that they couldn't do everything from the very beginning, and
11:48
Speaker 1: you took a piece of that that you could help with,
11:51
Speaker 1: with the intent from the beginning that it would go
11:55
Speaker 1: back on their plate at some point when they had
11:57
Speaker 1: the capacity and the ability to manage it successfully, whereas
12:03
Speaker 1: in the first semester that might have sent them off
12:07
Speaker 1: the rails on a Saturday evening, right, like totally, oh
12:10
Speaker 1: my gosh, I can't even manage this. So it's we're
12:14
Speaker 1: never saying that we are going to forever do something
12:18
Speaker 1: for our kids. We're never saying that they're never going
12:20
Speaker 1: to learn. We're just honoring their timetable, right, and we're
12:24
Speaker 1: honoring where they are and what they need in those moments.
12:28
Speaker 1: And Yeah, it stressed me out thinking of hearing you
12:31
Speaker 1: explain that process of all the things you were doing.
12:34
Speaker 1: But like, I can totally see that there have been
12:37
Speaker 1: times where that would be something that I would need
12:40
Speaker 1: to do and take it on because we've figured out
12:45
Speaker 1: where that line is between doing too much for them
12:51
Speaker 1: and doing what they actually need.
12:53
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, although the line is always changing of course, right,
13:00
Speaker 2: and it's lines that we didn't even know were They're like,
13:02
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that like getting food on a Saturday
13:06
Speaker 2: night was going to be something that I was going
13:09
Speaker 2: to have to like consider support around and work with
13:12
Speaker 2: my kid around, right, So I think that's one of
13:14
Speaker 2: the things too. And I'd love to hear what kind
13:16
Speaker 2: of things you've found you've had to scaffold for that
13:20
Speaker 2: you weren't anticipating, because I literally didn't give that a
13:23
Speaker 2: moment's thought, like, oh, I got to teach my kid
13:27
Speaker 2: how to like what oer takeout, right, But there's so
13:31
Speaker 2: many little things like that. There's so many demands, especially
13:36
Speaker 2: you know, my kid al is in a university setting
13:39
Speaker 2: in a different country with a whole different bureaucratic system.
13:44
Speaker 2: That tax is my executive function. I'm like, oh, my goodness, Like,
13:48
Speaker 2: I didn't predict all of this stuff, so it's just
13:51
Speaker 2: an ongoing surprise, like, Oh, this is a whole other thing.
13:54
Speaker 2: Let's figure out a plan for this.
13:56
Speaker 1: M h. It's an ever moving target. I got okay
14:00
Speaker 1: a long time ago, or at least accepted that it's
14:03
Speaker 1: an ever moving target. And when we finally seemed to
14:07
Speaker 1: get some headway on something, something else will come in
14:11
Speaker 1: that need its scaffolding and support and attention. Yeah, when
14:15
Speaker 1: one of my kids went off to college, I got
14:17
Speaker 1: a text the first time they were doing laundry, how
14:21
Speaker 1: do I do this? And I'm like, well, you did
14:25
Speaker 1: laundry at home. Yeah, they're big posters on the wall.
14:29
Speaker 1: But there was such a habit of just asking mom right,
14:34
Speaker 1: and so we had to work on pulling back on
14:37
Speaker 1: that and doing like you just said, like, okay, well,
14:41
Speaker 1: what do you think? Is the first step? Like I
14:43
Speaker 1: learned not to start problem solving, which is my nature.
14:48
Speaker 1: My first instinct is to solve and fix right away
14:51
Speaker 1: and do it for whoever is in front of me,
14:54
Speaker 1: stranger kid, anyone. Like. That's just why I'm wired. I've
14:58
Speaker 1: really had to learn how to say, Okay, what do
15:02
Speaker 1: you think? Yeah? Right, and not give an answer with
15:06
Speaker 1: my nerds virgin kid, there have been just a lot
15:10
Speaker 1: of things that I kind of sit in on. So
15:14
Speaker 1: if he needs a doctor's appointment, he can bring his
15:17
Speaker 1: current phone we'll sit together. At first, I'll say, you know,
15:21
Speaker 1: these are the things you need to say or ask for,
15:23
Speaker 1: and then I'll be here if I'm needed to sort
15:27
Speaker 1: of walk through that more or to offer guidance. I'm
15:32
Speaker 1: still the driver. The last time he went to the doctor,
15:35
Speaker 1: she called me, are you his driver? I'm like, thanks
15:38
Speaker 1: for reducing me to nothing. But she was not awesome anyway.
15:44
Speaker 1: She was really berating him about being twenty two and
15:46
Speaker 1: not taking care of himself and is not our regular doctor,
15:50
Speaker 1: so she didn't know. But still it wasn't okay anyway.
15:53
Speaker 1: So you know, I still have to always take that role.
15:57
Speaker 1: Because we don't have public transport where we are. You can't,
16:02
Speaker 1: like he'd have to walk two miles just to grab
16:04
Speaker 1: a bus, and the bus only goes very limited places,
16:07
Speaker 1: so we just don't have that opportunity. And so because
16:11
Speaker 1: I could be flexible and take that on, he doesn't
16:14
Speaker 1: go to a lot of places. He works with his
16:16
Speaker 1: dad now, so dad just you know, they go to
16:18
Speaker 1: work together, they come home together, which is a relief
16:20
Speaker 1: to me because when he had a different job, I
16:23
Speaker 1: had to take him and pick him up and stuff too,
16:25
Speaker 1: and it took a lot of my time, but just
16:28
Speaker 1: knowing that there are some things that just are my
16:31
Speaker 1: role right now until he gets more comfortable driving and
16:34
Speaker 1: gets his license. That's a role that I'm taking on.
16:38
Speaker 1: And I'm okay with that because I know that he
16:42
Speaker 1: just needs more time to be comfortable with driving. He's
16:45
Speaker 1: anxious about it. But there are other things where I'm like, Okay,
16:49
Speaker 1: why don't I fill out that paperwork for you? Because
16:51
Speaker 1: he has his graphia, his handwriting was really difficult, and
16:54
Speaker 1: he'll say, no, I need to learn how to do this,
16:57
Speaker 1: and he will do it himself, and he will slowed
16:59
Speaker 1: down enough that someone can read it and do what
17:02
Speaker 1: he needs to do, and it surprises me. And I
17:06
Speaker 1: think we talked in part one about sometimes they surprise us.
17:09
Speaker 1: Sometimes we're ready to give more support than they need,
17:14
Speaker 1: and it is so crucial to get their buy in
17:17
Speaker 1: at this age. We have to ask what do you need?
17:21
Speaker 1: What do you want? I was just answering a parent
17:24
Speaker 1: email before we got on about my kid is struggling
17:28
Speaker 1: in college. It's year three, they're passing, but I think
17:32
Speaker 1: they need to drop one of their classes. It's just
17:34
Speaker 1: too much, it's too much stress. Should I go over
17:36
Speaker 1: there and make all this stuff happen. And my first
17:40
Speaker 1: response was, what does your kid want? We have to
17:45
Speaker 1: bring them into these conversations, right if we don't, the
17:50
Speaker 1: pressure of us trying to manage it is just regulating,
17:54
Speaker 1: and then they're going to be less successful. They're going
17:57
Speaker 1: to tune us out right, They're not going to take
17:59
Speaker 1: our car, We're not going to answer our tags. They're
18:01
Speaker 1: not gonna want us to be part of it.
18:03
Speaker 2: Were you in my apartment today?
18:05
Speaker 1: Because yeah, oh but I've been there, right, like I've
18:10
Speaker 1: so been in these situations too. Yeah, yeah, I mean.
18:15
Speaker 2: And what's tricky about that scenario you just share the
18:19
Speaker 2: email that you were just responding to, is like we
18:21
Speaker 2: go talk to our kids and they may say, no,
18:24
Speaker 2: actually I can do this, I want to do this,
18:26
Speaker 2: and we might be like, oh gosh, I don't you know.
18:30
Speaker 2: We might see this is not necessarily going to play
18:33
Speaker 2: out the way that you think it is, and we
18:36
Speaker 2: want to pre rescue them. We want to like swoop
18:39
Speaker 2: in and prevent the failure, the setback, whatever, because we
18:43
Speaker 2: also have experienced significant setbacks. But our kids or see
18:47
Speaker 2: what seen what happens when something doesn't go well for them,
18:51
Speaker 2: and we want to prevent that from happening. So it
18:54
Speaker 2: is really tricky when our kids have a vision, and
18:57
Speaker 2: but I agree, we have to ask them and it
18:59
Speaker 2: has to be on their terms when they're young adults.
19:02
Speaker 2: And if they decide no, I think I can do this.
19:06
Speaker 2: I don't want to drop the class. I can do
19:08
Speaker 2: the thing, then our job as the companion the ship
19:12
Speaker 2: is like, Okay, I hear this is what you want
19:14
Speaker 2: to do, and I respect that this is your journey.
19:18
Speaker 2: Let me know how I can help. And that's really
19:21
Speaker 2: the best that we can do. Like we can't. If
19:23
Speaker 2: we try to do more than that, we are going
19:26
Speaker 2: to potentially damage our relationship with them because we're going
19:30
Speaker 2: to become this controlling person. And that is not what
19:33
Speaker 2: a young adult who's individuating needs or wants in their world.
19:38
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and it's not what they need because if
19:43
Speaker 1: they don't figure out how to work it out themselves,
19:45
Speaker 1: they are not learning those skills. They are not able.
19:48
Speaker 1: Right when we jump in and try to rescue, we're
19:51
Speaker 1: preventing growth. Yeah. I was listening to an episode of
19:56
Speaker 1: The Good Life Project this morning with doctor Lisa Damore
19:59
Speaker 1: and she was re iterating this. They were talking about teens.
20:02
Speaker 1: They had a couple parents of young adults who were
20:04
Speaker 1: in college on asking questions, and she's, you know, one
20:09
Speaker 1: of the worst things we do for our kids is
20:10
Speaker 1: we rescue and we try to fix and we try
20:12
Speaker 1: to prevent, and growth only happens through struggle, through difficult things,
20:20
Speaker 1: through figuring it out yourself. Yeah, I want to return
20:24
Speaker 1: to this idea of letting our kids fail. And again,
20:27
Speaker 1: I'm like air quotes over here. I can't say it
20:29
Speaker 1: without doing it. Yeah, because so many parents will ask
20:33
Speaker 1: me that question, do I let them fail? Is this
20:36
Speaker 1: the time I let them fail? And I would love
20:38
Speaker 1: to get your opinion on letting kids fail. I certainly
20:44
Speaker 1: have a strong opinion about it, but I want to
20:47
Speaker 1: hear yours first and then I'll share.
20:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I and I have to give a shout
20:51
Speaker 2: out to jes Leahy and her book The Gift of Failure,
20:53
Speaker 2: which she writes a lot about this. Yeah. I mean,
20:57
Speaker 2: I guess I hadn't thought of that language letting kids fail.
21:02
Speaker 2: I don't think it's failure like I think failure is
21:04
Speaker 2: the wrong word. I think just what you said, this
21:09
Speaker 2: is our kid's journey, full stop.
21:11
Speaker 1: Right.
21:12
Speaker 2: Of course, we want our kids to find their way, Like,
21:15
Speaker 2: we want that so much. We love these kids so much,
21:18
Speaker 2: we would do anything for them, and we want them
21:22
Speaker 2: to create lives of purpose and meaning so they can
21:25
Speaker 2: feel fulfilled. Right, That's it. That's the big dream, the goal.
21:30
Speaker 2: So we want that. And then we have a kid
21:33
Speaker 2: who is making choices or is like kind of progressing
21:37
Speaker 2: or doing things that we can see, Oh, this is
21:39
Speaker 2: not going to lead to that out We think this
21:42
Speaker 2: is not going to lead to that outcome that we
21:44
Speaker 2: want for this child. First of all, we can't predict
21:46
Speaker 2: the future. We have no idea what this kid's journey
21:50
Speaker 2: is meant to look like, or what is going to
21:52
Speaker 2: be the thing that really clicks for them if it
21:55
Speaker 2: clicks right, and it is completely out of our hands,
22:01
Speaker 2: it's just it's out of our hands. So yeah, so
22:03
Speaker 2: I would say we're not letting our kids fail. We
22:06
Speaker 2: are honoring that they're on their own journey, that we
22:12
Speaker 2: get to be this important person in their life, that
22:16
Speaker 2: we get to be in relationship with this complex, this
22:18
Speaker 2: beautifully complex human who's on an incredible journey and we
22:25
Speaker 2: get to like live this life together. And it's messy
22:28
Speaker 2: and it's all of those things, But it's their journey.
22:32
Speaker 2: We're on our journey too. We're in it every day.
22:35
Speaker 2: We're still you know, we're still doing our own work, right,
22:38
Speaker 2: We're still in it. Yes, Yeah, I would say we're
22:40
Speaker 2: not letting our kids fail. We're honoring their journey and
22:43
Speaker 2: we're showing up to support in ways that we can.
22:46
Speaker 1: Yeah. And while failure is a teaching tool, pulling back
22:51
Speaker 1: all support and allowing it to happen in that way
22:56
Speaker 1: is not a teaching tool and is not going to
22:58
Speaker 1: lead to growth. I always think about what is the
23:01
Speaker 1: message we're sending. Because my kid taught me years ago
23:06
Speaker 1: that he hears what I say in a different way.
23:09
Speaker 1: So like when I said let's sit down and do
23:11
Speaker 1: your homework together, I think we should do it together.
23:14
Speaker 1: He heard Mom doesn't think I can do this. Yeah,
23:18
Speaker 1: And that was huge, Like that really stuck in my
23:21
Speaker 1: gut and asking that question. Then if I just say, okay,
23:28
Speaker 1: you're on your own, I give up your kid, may
23:32
Speaker 1: hear my mom just gave up on me. Yeah, my
23:36
Speaker 1: parent doesn't care? Yeah, right, And that is so damaging.
23:40
Speaker 1: So being really conscientious of the message that they're receiving,
23:45
Speaker 1: whether or not it's the one we intend or send, right,
23:48
Speaker 1: and then you know we can honor that they don't
23:52
Speaker 1: want as much help from us. We can say, Okay,
23:55
Speaker 1: we're giving too much help. It's enabling. We need to
23:58
Speaker 1: pull back, but we need to fade support while still
24:02
Speaker 1: providing opportunities for success. Yeah, just letting a kid fall
24:06
Speaker 1: on their ass and fail and like be in this
24:10
Speaker 1: pit of dispair like that helps no one. That term
24:13
Speaker 1: drives me nuts, and it is a traditional way of
24:17
Speaker 1: doing things. You know, if kids are really not into school,
24:20
Speaker 1: a lot of people tell you, well, just let them
24:22
Speaker 1: figure it out, let them fail, then they'll then they'll
24:25
Speaker 1: learn their lesson and they'll do better. Yeah, but that's
24:28
Speaker 1: not always true.
24:29
Speaker 2: Well, it's definitely not true with neurodivergent kids too, right,
24:33
Speaker 2: And I think that that is, you know, there's a
24:35
Speaker 2: lot of societal pressure to pull back supports quickly and
24:39
Speaker 2: that you know you shouldn't be doing all this. You're
24:42
Speaker 2: just like, you know, you mentioned that experience with a
24:45
Speaker 2: doctor who was braining your kiddo, Like it's really hard
24:47
Speaker 2: because there are lots of messages like that.
25:03
Speaker 1: I think this is a really good segue into talking
25:06
Speaker 1: about what we can like legally do for our young
25:10
Speaker 1: adults and what we can't because when they turn eighteen,
25:14
Speaker 1: at least here in the United States, you can't advocate
25:18
Speaker 1: on their behalf anymore in a lot of places, and
25:23
Speaker 1: it's really tough.
25:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
25:24
Speaker 1: I think I mentioned in our part one episode on
25:28
Speaker 1: my kid's eighteenth birthday, he quit therapy. He was still
25:31
Speaker 1: in high school. He still needed my sport, he still
25:34
Speaker 1: needed therapy, but he didn't see the value in it anymore,
25:37
Speaker 1: and he knew it was his choice, and he pulled
25:41
Speaker 1: back right and in a lot of ways, to me,
25:45
Speaker 1: it was almost like the floor fell out from under me,
25:48
Speaker 1: like all the things that I was able to help
25:51
Speaker 1: with and being like in therapy sessions with him, which
25:55
Speaker 1: I could still do if he invited me in rate,
25:57
Speaker 1: but you know, his therapist couldn't come to me and
25:59
Speaker 1: talk to me about stuff anymore. You know, they have
26:02
Speaker 1: to make their own doctor's appointments, They have to do
26:04
Speaker 1: all these things that I feel like we should start
26:07
Speaker 1: preparing them for earlier, or preparing ourselves for earlier. Were
26:12
Speaker 1: there shockers for you or things that kind of knocked
26:14
Speaker 1: you off course.
26:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, yeah, just kind of having different relationships
26:19
Speaker 2: with the therapists was one thing for sure. I think,
26:23
Speaker 2: you know, we moved here and had to establish care
26:27
Speaker 2: for my kiddo, you know, with both kind of general
26:31
Speaker 2: you know, practitioner, but also with mental health supports here
26:34
Speaker 2: in the Netherlands, and those are meetings that I've always
26:40
Speaker 2: my kid has wanted me as part of those meetings
26:43
Speaker 2: because I'm the one with like the you know, I
26:46
Speaker 2: know the whole history, right and I can provide the
26:49
Speaker 2: dates and when this happened and when this med was,
26:51
Speaker 2: you know, like all of those details. And you know,
26:55
Speaker 2: I very clearly was disinvited, like I should. We showed
26:59
Speaker 2: up to like a zoom meeting together and the people
27:04
Speaker 2: that my kid was meeting with were like, yeah, so
27:07
Speaker 2: we don't want you here. This is not your this
27:10
Speaker 2: is for your kid, this is not for you. And
27:12
Speaker 2: I was like okay, and I asked my child. I
27:15
Speaker 2: was like, are you cool? And I was like yeah,
27:17
Speaker 2: I guess that's okay. And I just had to let
27:20
Speaker 2: it all go and I was I knew that it
27:22
Speaker 2: wasn't going to be accurate reporting and that there were
27:24
Speaker 2: going to be a lot of questions, and I was
27:27
Speaker 2: just like, yeah, this isn't my thing. Anymore. And that
27:31
Speaker 2: was really hard because I think behind the scenes and
27:34
Speaker 2: you're probably I mean, I don't want to speak for you,
27:36
Speaker 2: but my hunches, you're doing a lot of this stuff too.
27:39
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot of like behind the scenes, like
27:41
Speaker 2: coordination of care and like making sure prescriptions are sent
27:45
Speaker 2: in for the right things, and like there's a lot
27:47
Speaker 2: of moving pieces and kind of being the manager of
27:52
Speaker 2: someone else's health care journey. If it's more complex, it's
27:57
Speaker 2: a lot. And so to be kind of kicked out
27:59
Speaker 2: of that.
28:00
Speaker 1: Was like who that was?
28:03
Speaker 2: It was hard, and I also had to realize like ultimately, yeah,
28:08
Speaker 2: like this is stuff, This is important stuff, and this
28:12
Speaker 2: is stuff, especially if there's medications involved. Our kids need
28:16
Speaker 2: to eventually learn how to call in a prescription or
28:21
Speaker 2: how to even have the wherewithal to be like, oh,
28:23
Speaker 2: I'm running low. I should make sure that I have,
28:26
Speaker 2: you know, more meds being called into the pharmacy. Like
28:31
Speaker 2: those are important skills. And I think for me, the
28:36
Speaker 2: stakes have felt so high, like well, we can't run
28:39
Speaker 2: out of this thing, or like, oh, hell's gonna break loose.
28:41
Speaker 2: So yeah, I've just like micro managed some of those things.
28:44
Speaker 2: And so that is an area of growth for me
28:49
Speaker 2: that I'm still very much working on.
28:52
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Yeah. When my kid did start therapy again
28:56
Speaker 1: about a year ago, maybe nine months or a year ago,
28:59
Speaker 1: decided on it zone he could use it. He had
29:03
Speaker 1: to make the call right and schedule, and he wanted
29:08
Speaker 1: me to come to the first appointment with him and
29:10
Speaker 1: be in there with him, and so we went in,
29:13
Speaker 1: we sat down. His therapist is a nerdvergent. He specializes
29:16
Speaker 1: a NERD virgence, and he was really confused by me
29:20
Speaker 1: being there with a twenty two year old kid, and
29:23
Speaker 1: I thought, I thought, you know, you sort of got
29:27
Speaker 1: these things. He's like, so you just want mom here
29:30
Speaker 1: for moral support. He's like, I've never had a twenty
29:32
Speaker 1: two year old bring a parent in a session before.
29:34
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, wow, Like I've always done his therapy
29:39
Speaker 1: with him. I don't now. I just did the first
29:40
Speaker 1: one and he does it on his own now. But
29:43
Speaker 1: like he was meeting somebody new. He knew that it
29:47
Speaker 1: was a process to navigate that he wasn't certain of,
29:49
Speaker 1: and he just wanted moral support talking about some hard
29:54
Speaker 1: things in his past that he needed to share so
29:56
Speaker 1: that this new therapist, you know, understood what going on
30:00
Speaker 1: and some of what was Kin feeling, some of his
30:04
Speaker 1: emotional turmoil, and like, I was just so floored that
30:08
Speaker 1: he was surprised by me being there and being supportive.
30:14
Speaker 1: When we went to get his permit, the lady at
30:16
Speaker 1: the desk at the driver's license place yelled at me
30:20
Speaker 1: that she was not talking to me. It was like, yeah,
30:24
Speaker 1: she was asking for things and he didn't understand. And
30:27
Speaker 1: instead of standing there and watching them go ten rounds
30:30
Speaker 1: and still not getting to what they needed, I just
30:33
Speaker 1: answered a question and she was like, no, you are
30:36
Speaker 1: not welcome here. She told me to stand back behind
30:39
Speaker 1: the line and go away.
30:41
Speaker 2: I mean I had a similar situation with a like
30:46
Speaker 2: an urgent care place in Brooklyn last year, and yeah,
30:52
Speaker 2: very I was like in the room and I was
30:54
Speaker 2: like responding to some questions and she was like, I'm sorry.
30:57
Speaker 1: Why are you talking to me?
30:59
Speaker 2: Like this is not about you. Your child is this
31:02
Speaker 2: many years old. And I was like, yeah, but I
31:05
Speaker 2: think that is one of the things that's really hard,
31:07
Speaker 2: and just to set expectations for listeners, like not only
31:10
Speaker 2: do we have to do our own work on scaffolding
31:12
Speaker 2: and figuring this stuff out, and like resetting expectations for
31:16
Speaker 2: these rights of passage, you know, these kind of life
31:20
Speaker 2: skill things. But we are always going to be confronted
31:25
Speaker 2: by people in society who do not get it, who
31:28
Speaker 2: aren't going to necessarily see our kids the way that
31:31
Speaker 2: we've kind of ensured they've been seen by the adults
31:34
Speaker 2: in their lives. And that's really hard. That's something that
31:38
Speaker 2: we have to kind of like find peace with the
31:41
Speaker 2: fact that our kids might be misunderstood if we're not
31:44
Speaker 2: there to kind of bridge the gap and then deal
31:47
Speaker 2: with the feelings that come up when people call us out.
31:51
Speaker 2: And then you know, I don't know about you, but
31:52
Speaker 2: I had to like really do some thinking after that,
31:55
Speaker 2: like am I overinvolved?
31:57
Speaker 1: Should I have stepped back? You know what I mean?
32:00
Speaker 1: Like I think this stuff is really confusing. It makes
32:02
Speaker 1: us feel like we're doing the wrong thing. We know
32:05
Speaker 1: we're filling a need. We have history with this kid,
32:09
Speaker 1: we know you know their story and yeah, and it
32:12
Speaker 1: just makes you question all of it. Yeah, but my
32:15
Speaker 1: questioning these days is pretty short. I'm like out for you,
32:20
Speaker 1: but I know that you know, like I know my kid,
32:23
Speaker 1: I know what's going on here. Yeah, Okay, so let's
32:27
Speaker 1: talk about our own nervous systems, our own experience. And
32:33
Speaker 1: I think let's start with like when have we overhelped
32:38
Speaker 1: in a way that was also painful for us? Right,
32:45
Speaker 1: Like there have been times where I've overhelped, I've overstepped,
32:48
Speaker 1: or I got it wrong, like I was just trying
32:51
Speaker 1: to be empathetic and I got it all wrong and
32:55
Speaker 1: my kid wouldn't talk to me for a few days,
32:58
Speaker 1: like you know, and that doesn't feel for us. Yeah,
33:02
Speaker 1: it's information. It tells us, you know, keep thinking about
33:05
Speaker 1: their boundaries whatever. But how do we navigate to the
33:11
Speaker 1: point where we're not taking it so personally? I think
33:14
Speaker 1: that's what I'm trying to get at.
33:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when you find out, please let me know. No,
33:23
Speaker 2: I mean seriously, Like this has been the hardest part
33:26
Speaker 2: for me is it can feel like I'll just share
33:30
Speaker 2: my personal experience, like this stuff feels intolerable, right when
33:34
Speaker 2: we have a rupture like that as you just described,
33:39
Speaker 2: because you know and I the same things happened to me.
33:42
Speaker 2: I've pushed too far. I've tried to like micromanage a situation.
33:47
Speaker 2: I've done all the things I know not to do,
33:50
Speaker 2: but I have pushed it anyway because I just couldn't
33:53
Speaker 2: let go of my attachment to this specific outcome and
33:57
Speaker 2: it doesn't ever go well, then I feel bad. Then
34:01
Speaker 2: I'm worried I screwed up my relationship with my kid.
34:04
Speaker 2: Then I get anxious, you know, and we don't have control, right,
34:09
Speaker 2: so you know, in the case of a kid who's
34:13
Speaker 2: not living at home, like I have to just sit
34:17
Speaker 2: with all those feelings until and I don't really like
34:20
Speaker 2: doing that, Like I have to just be like, oh,
34:23
Speaker 2: I guess I'm just being iced out right now, and
34:27
Speaker 2: how am I going to tolerate that? Because it doesn't
34:30
Speaker 2: feel tolerable. So that has been where I've been really
34:34
Speaker 2: working hard. And you know, it's not like this happens
34:37
Speaker 2: all the time, but just knowing that our relationship has changed,
34:41
Speaker 2: Like our kids are separating, right, they are growing, and
34:45
Speaker 2: this is all natural. It is completely natural for this
34:49
Speaker 2: to happen, and it happens with any parent of any child, right,
34:53
Speaker 2: We're gonna kind of get like entangled right with them.
34:57
Speaker 2: And so from me, that is the skill. I'm just
35:02
Speaker 2: working so hard on what can I do in the moment,
35:05
Speaker 2: like even just to notice like, oh, okay, now I'm
35:09
Speaker 2: in this situation. I used to be like I can't
35:12
Speaker 2: stand this, Like I can't this is too much, it's
35:14
Speaker 2: too painful, I can't do this. How am I going
35:16
Speaker 2: to do this? Why did I have children? Like, you know,
35:18
Speaker 2: the whole.
35:19
Speaker 1: Thing too much?
35:22
Speaker 2: And it still doesn't feel good. I still feel like
35:26
Speaker 2: initially when these things happen that it feels intolerable, but
35:29
Speaker 2: I also have a lot of evidence now well, actually
35:32
Speaker 2: I can tolerate it. It's just unpleasant. I would rather
35:35
Speaker 2: not be dealing with this right now or feeling these feelings.
35:40
Speaker 2: But yeah, I try to rely on the tools. But
35:43
Speaker 2: that's what I'm doing in real time, is learning the
35:45
Speaker 2: tools and practicing with them, and when I have faster
35:50
Speaker 2: recoveries from these things, being a little proud of myself,
35:53
Speaker 2: like and then I can tell my therapist listen to
35:56
Speaker 2: what happened and listen to how well I recovered.
35:59
Speaker 1: Yeah. The other feeling that sometimes comes up for me
36:03
Speaker 1: is anger, like I am your parent, Look at what
36:06
Speaker 1: I've done for you. I'm just trying to help and
36:09
Speaker 1: you're icing me out like that. Yeah, you know, but
36:12
Speaker 1: and that's natural. It's not helpful. This is natural, and
36:16
Speaker 1: we just have to work through that kind of thing.
36:18
Speaker 1: And understand that, you know, they also have feelings and
36:21
Speaker 1: take up space and that that's also the way it
36:24
Speaker 1: should be. And I've really been working hard. I don't
36:28
Speaker 1: know that there's a lot of evidence of how hard
36:30
Speaker 1: I've been working yet, but I'm still trying to ask
36:34
Speaker 1: do you want my help? Or do you just want
36:36
Speaker 1: me to listen? Because as I said earlier, my wiring
36:40
Speaker 1: is immediately like I don't even know what's happening until
36:43
Speaker 1: I'm halfway in it, fixing, helping, trying to offer solutions
36:48
Speaker 1: as I'm really working at not offering solutions, maybe giving
36:53
Speaker 1: a prompt that would help them come to a solution,
36:56
Speaker 1: and or asking do you even want my help with us?
37:00
Speaker 1: And I've had to learn that the hard way, you know,
37:02
Speaker 1: I've had to learn that by overdoing it and being
37:06
Speaker 1: iced out and you know, going through those things and
37:09
Speaker 1: learning that way. But it's really hard to go against
37:12
Speaker 1: your nature sometimes, right, Like, yeah, we want to honor
37:15
Speaker 1: our kids wiring, Well, we have wiring too, and sometimes
37:19
Speaker 1: our instincts really are strong.
37:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, you know, I'll just share this
37:27
Speaker 2: metaphor that my sister was telling me about the other day,
37:31
Speaker 2: This idea that like we're playing, we're playing tennis, like
37:34
Speaker 2: we like hit the ball right, and then sometimes we're
37:38
Speaker 2: running to the other side to hit it back to us,
37:40
Speaker 2: when it's really like our kids job to pick up
37:43
Speaker 2: the racket, you know, and so we really need to
37:47
Speaker 2: kind of stay on our side of the court. We
37:49
Speaker 2: need to just kind of honor what this's going to
37:52
Speaker 2: look like. I love you know what you're doing asking
37:54
Speaker 2: for help. I use a lot of declarative language now,
37:58
Speaker 2: so I you know, if you listeners aren't familiar. Linda
38:01
Speaker 2: Murphy wrote the Declarative Language Handbook, And with my kiddo,
38:05
Speaker 2: even asking, you know, saying would you like my help
38:08
Speaker 2: can feel demanding sometimes, so it's like I have some
38:13
Speaker 2: ideas or I'm available if that would be helpful, just
38:17
Speaker 2: let me know right Or I might say, you know,
38:21
Speaker 2: I'm going to be working all afternoon. I know you
38:24
Speaker 2: have some schoolwork. Let me know if you want my
38:27
Speaker 2: zoom link and we can cowork and body double or something.
38:30
Speaker 2: I'm around if you need me. But I try to
38:32
Speaker 2: leave it like pretty like low key, and I'm always
38:36
Speaker 2: very you know, I do get excited when the invitation
38:39
Speaker 2: is accepted and my child will accept my help but
38:41
Speaker 2: that doesn't happen that often. But yeah, it all has
38:45
Speaker 2: to be permission based, and it all has to be
38:48
Speaker 2: on their terms. Even though we often have the solutions,
38:51
Speaker 2: are the right strategies or the ways we've hacked ourselves
38:54
Speaker 2: to figure this stuff out. We want to save our
38:56
Speaker 2: kids all the years of you know, trial and error, struggle,
39:00
Speaker 2: but the invitations everything m hm.
39:03
Speaker 1: And I've learned from my nerd virgin kid to say,
39:08
Speaker 1: I see that you're having a hard time. I am
39:10
Speaker 1: here if and when you want to talk to me
39:13
Speaker 1: and walk away, which is another thing that's really hard,
39:17
Speaker 1: but that has actually worked out. You know. My fear
39:20
Speaker 1: was always that he would never share with me, he
39:22
Speaker 1: would never get help when he needed it. Right, He'll
39:25
Speaker 1: come and talk to me every single time when he's ready. Yeah,
39:29
Speaker 1: and he does want my help. Sometimes he does ask
39:32
Speaker 1: for my input or he just wants me to listen,
39:35
Speaker 1: and that has really changed our relationship. You know. The
39:40
Speaker 1: other way feels like a lot of pressure and a
39:42
Speaker 1: lot of like my parents doesn't think I measure up,
39:45
Speaker 1: or my parents doesn't think I'm capable. Whereas if we
39:48
Speaker 1: just say I'm here, I'm happy to support. These are
39:52
Speaker 1: the ways I can support you if they're open to
39:55
Speaker 1: even hearing that much and just waiting, you know, Seth
39:59
Speaker 1: Perler taught me put it out there and wait however
40:03
Speaker 1: long it takes. It can be so long, so long,
40:07
Speaker 1: like we always want to fill pauses. We want to
40:11
Speaker 1: fill and they get uncomfortable when they're long. Yeah, but
40:16
Speaker 1: there's so much more magic in waiting and silence.
40:20
Speaker 2: Yes, agreed. And I also want to say to add
40:24
Speaker 2: to that, I wrote down a note as you're talking
40:27
Speaker 2: that we need to really let go, not fake let go.
40:30
Speaker 2: So you know, we can say like, yeah, like I'm
40:35
Speaker 2: here if you want to talk whatever, like and act
40:37
Speaker 2: like we're all cool. We got you know, it's fine.
40:40
Speaker 2: You know, we're not invested. But if we still are
40:42
Speaker 2: really like have this energy that's like grasping, like you know,
40:46
Speaker 2: they can sense that we really need them to come
40:49
Speaker 2: talk to us, they won't come talk to us. So
40:52
Speaker 2: part of the under the hood work for us is
40:56
Speaker 2: really genuinely meeting it when we walk away, not doing
40:59
Speaker 2: it out of anger or like showing how strong we are,
41:02
Speaker 2: but really being at piece with the fact that like, hey,
41:05
Speaker 2: I'm here, I love this human, I am here. If
41:08
Speaker 2: they want my insight, my advice. If they want to
41:11
Speaker 2: share with me. I'd be so honored if they come
41:13
Speaker 2: share with me, and I'm okay if they don't, because
41:15
Speaker 2: this is their life, right, that's where we want to
41:19
Speaker 2: ultimately be because that feels like freedom. That feels like
41:22
Speaker 2: freedom for our kids, it feels like freedom for us.
41:25
Speaker 2: And that's when our connection can just get so much
41:28
Speaker 2: more authentic and stronger.
41:30
Speaker 1: I think, hmm, yeah, yeah, Well we can just be
41:34
Speaker 1: there without an agenda. When it's genuine connection, it changes
41:39
Speaker 1: the relationship. It helps their nervous system. You know, what
41:42
Speaker 1: you were talking about is when you don't really let
41:44
Speaker 1: go and there's that energy. That's our nervous systems sort
41:47
Speaker 1: of talking to each other. Right, we're putting out a
41:50
Speaker 1: certain energy. We might be trying to hide it, but
41:53
Speaker 1: it's still felt, it's still there, it's still in the air.
41:56
Speaker 1: I love that you added that because I think it's
41:58
Speaker 1: really important. We are way out of time.
42:03
Speaker 2: We're just scratching the surface.
42:05
Speaker 1: We have so much more to talk about, so hopefully
42:08
Speaker 1: we'll do maybe a part three and a part four.
42:10
Speaker 1: Having these conversations with you has been truthfully liberating for
42:15
Speaker 1: me to just be completely open and honest. We don't
42:19
Speaker 1: have it figured out. We I mean me and my family.
42:22
Speaker 1: I'm not speaking for you. We don't have it figured out.
42:25
Speaker 1: We're working on it, but we have the solid foundation
42:28
Speaker 1: that we need to be able to be what my
42:32
Speaker 1: particular kid needs me to be. For the most part, right,
42:35
Speaker 1: I have problems where you know, I have times where
42:38
Speaker 1: the emotions well up and I freak out and I'm
42:40
Speaker 1: not sure I'm doing the right thing or maybe I'm
42:42
Speaker 1: failing them. But for the most part, I think we've
42:45
Speaker 1: worked all these years on building that foundation by noticing
42:48
Speaker 1: the nervous system, about seeing behavior as communication, all these things,
42:52
Speaker 1: and we've worked on connection and relationship and so we'll
42:55
Speaker 1: figure it out. Like I know that we'll figure it out.
42:58
Speaker 1: It's all going to be okay. But just being really
43:00
Speaker 1: transparent in these conversations has been such a relief for me.
43:05
Speaker 1: It's a big exhale.
43:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel the same. I feel the same, And
43:10
Speaker 2: if I can just add like, I don't remember the
43:13
Speaker 2: exact situation this summer, but I had a conversation with
43:16
Speaker 2: my kiddo that I feel like I had been wanting
43:21
Speaker 2: to have in some capacity for like four years and
43:27
Speaker 2: it happened, and it was such an important moment for me,
43:33
Speaker 2: and I just felt like, a all of this stuff that
43:36
Speaker 2: we're doing, all the stuff that your listeners are doing,
43:39
Speaker 2: the way we are getting curious about ourselves, we're showing
43:42
Speaker 2: up for our kids, We're doing the work we are
43:45
Speaker 2: in this right with our complex kids. It all pays off.
43:51
Speaker 2: Like it's not about when, it's not we don't know
43:54
Speaker 2: when the timeline all of that stuff, but all of
43:58
Speaker 2: it matters. And I just I came out of that conversation.
44:02
Speaker 2: I'm like, we are playing the longest possible game here,
44:06
Speaker 2: But then you have moments like that and you're like, oh,
44:09
Speaker 2: but it's totally worth it. And it was a conversation.
44:13
Speaker 2: It wasn't like we like, you know, solve some mathematical whatever.
44:16
Speaker 2: It was like it was a beautiful moment of connection
44:21
Speaker 2: and relationship that just felt so special, Like I I'll
44:26
Speaker 2: never forget that conversation. Right, So all the stuff that
44:30
Speaker 2: we're doing, this is what we're working towards. Right, It's
44:33
Speaker 2: just a very long game. And you know, I hope
44:36
Speaker 2: that that's helpful for listeners to think again when the
44:39
Speaker 2: timelines are so unconventional we want to see results. We
44:43
Speaker 2: want to know that there were things are moving in
44:45
Speaker 2: that direction. And so just to kind of maybe reset
44:49
Speaker 2: what success looks like and what we're working towards can
44:52
Speaker 2: be helpful.
44:53
Speaker 1: Yeah. For me, success in parenting is the relationship that
44:56
Speaker 1: I have with my kids totally, especially now that they're older.
44:59
Speaker 1: You know, could run off and cut me out. I
45:02
Speaker 1: don't want that, and I'm glad they don't want that, right,
45:05
Speaker 1: you know. And sometimes it's difficult when you have young
45:07
Speaker 1: adults are still at home and you know, it's it's
45:10
Speaker 1: a totally different dynamic. And like when we bought this house,
45:14
Speaker 1: these kids were small. We never imagined being for adults
45:18
Speaker 1: in this house and how it really doesn't work for
45:20
Speaker 1: us now, but we never thought about it, you know.
45:23
Speaker 1: But like, having the relationship that I want with them
45:29
Speaker 1: feels like the biggest win in parenting and the other
45:34
Speaker 1: stuff eventually is gonna work out. We're gonna work at it,
45:38
Speaker 1: We're gonna work on it, right, but it's gonna work
45:41
Speaker 1: out because we have that connection, we have that relationship,
45:45
Speaker 1: and that I mean, that's a relief too. Honestly, it's
45:48
Speaker 1: a big relief totally. Well, if you are listening to
45:53
Speaker 1: this episode, Please go to parenting adh sheet and auts
45:57
Speaker 1: dot com to get the show notes. We will link
46:00
Speaker 1: up to part one of this conversation. If we have
46:03
Speaker 1: more future parts of this conversation, I will be sure
46:06
Speaker 1: to link them up for you there as well. And
46:08
Speaker 1: I really thank you for listening and WI thank you
46:11
Speaker 1: for coming as your authentic self and sharing all the hard,
46:16
Speaker 1: uncomfortable bits. It's been so much fun to just be
46:20
Speaker 1: so real.
46:22
Speaker 2: I appreciate you too, like I wouldn't. Yeah, it's like
46:25
Speaker 2: you're like, I don't know. I just want to share
46:28
Speaker 2: and open up with you. I think we have. It's
46:30
Speaker 2: nice that we're in this together. Yeah, in so many ways.
46:33
Speaker 2: So thank you for the conversation.
46:35
Speaker 1: Its great, awesome. I will see everybody in the next episode.
46:38
Speaker 1: Take good care. I see you. You're doing hard and
46:42
Speaker 1: meaningful work and you don't have to do it alone.
46:45
Speaker 1: If you found this episode helpful, share it with someone
46:48
Speaker 1: who needs it and leave a quick review so others
46:51
Speaker 1: can find this support too. When you're ready for next steps,
46:55
Speaker 1: the Regulated Kids Project is here with the tools, coaching
46:59
Speaker 1: and can community to help you raise a more regulated,
47:03
Speaker 1: resilient child. Get more info at Regulated kids dot com,