Latest / Becker's Healthcare Behavioral Health / Victoria Gore, a Coach at Holistic Recovery Services

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Victoria Gore, a Coach at Holistic Recovery Services · Becker's Healthcare Behavioral Health

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  Hello, and thank you for joining the Becker's Healthcare Podcast.
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  I'm Marcus Robertson, writer reporter with Becker's Healthcare.
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  Today I have joining the podcast Victoria Gore
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  with Holistic Recovery Services,
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  and Victoria is here to, well,
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  if you'd like to just tell the audience a little bit about yourself and, uh,
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  your clinic, that would be awesome.
• 0:26
  Yeah,
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  so Holistic Recovery Services is my business that's really
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  focused on helping folks with addictions and recovery. Um,
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  and, and I really bring a broad, um,
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  type of service for addiction recovery and healing.
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  Uh, you know, their therapy, of course, I'm licensed for North Dakota.
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  I'm also a recovery coach, and I offer courses and programs, uh,
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  that really help people with their recovery now and then,
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  of course, in the future, you know,
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  that stage two recovery when folks are, are,
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  have been in recovery for a couple years, but there's still these triggers.
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  There's still the struggles. And so, yeah,
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  and I also bring this holistic perspective,
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  bringing in energy healing and reiki and other
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  practices that really bring that mind, body, spirit connection,
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  um, and healing on all levels.
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  Very good. And you said North Dakota? Whereabouts in North Dakota?
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  I'm in Jamestown, kind of in the middle southern part. Uh,
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  so yeah, Jamestown, North Dakota. That's me.
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  All right. Well, you know, you talked a little bit about, uh, you know, what,
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  what you're doing with recovery, uh, sorry, with Holistic Recovery Services,
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  but curious, what are some, uh,
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  some barriers to behavioral healthcare addiction treatment care that,
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  that you're seeing these days? Um,
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  and if you have any ideas on how some of these barriers to care that you see,
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  if any, are overcome, uh, or,
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  or what strategies have you seen fail, and if so, why?
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  That's a great question. So some of the barriers that I see are really,
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  they come down to maintaining the separation of body,
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  mind, and spirit.
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  Because when we think about addictions or we think about mental health,
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  a lot of times it's either the disease model or there's, you know,
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  mental health that is causing the triggers and,
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  and leading to addictions. And, and really it's,
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  it's a holistic view,
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  which is really taking down those barriers, right?
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  Because the barriers that we are not simply just a body,
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  we're not simply just mind,
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  and we're not just energy and spirit either. And so when,
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  when the physical health and doctors can bring and work
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  together with those in mental health, and we can bring in this holistic healing,
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  energy healing aspect, then we are really breaking down those barriers.
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  Some of the really successful where clients get the
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  best outcome is clinics,
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  like holistic clinics that have multiple disciplines
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  in the same office,
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  and they're all coming from this understanding and perspective that if,
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  if I come in to see someone for my addiction or my
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  mental health, that it's not just about my thoughts.
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  It's not just about C B T. It's not just about, you know,
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  how to address the mind. It's also what are we eating? What is our body,
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  you know, how is our, our body functioning? Is there sleep difficulties?
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  Is there physical things going on as well?
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  And so having practitioners that are aware of that connection,
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  that mind, body, spirit connection,
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  and are really working together and doing staff meetings together, right? And,
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  and doing, um, cases, case studies and,
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  and getting that perspective from other disciplines,
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  that's really where I see the most success, um, with, with, uh,
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  treating oh,
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  and dealing with mental health and addiction and a lot of other things as well.
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  Okay. So, so you are seeing success with this kind of,
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  um, multidisciplinary like, you know, whole person health, you know, the, the,
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  yeah. The body is an integrated, you know, system of systems,
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  so stands to reason. You, you, you mentioned some, uh,
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  I guess you could call them internal barriers, um, you know, kind of,
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  uh, barriers of, I guess maybe perspective of the individual, you know,
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  kind of seeing things as, um, you know, this is,
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  I I view, um, my mental healthcare in this one way,
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  and that's the only way it can be. Or, you know,
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  maybe someone's got, uh, you know, may, uh,
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  even a cultural barrier where it's, it's, you know,
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  something like kind of a taboo to seek mental healthcare. Do you,
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  are you seeing any of those kind of internal barriers more often than others?
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  What can you tell us?
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  Yeah, yeah. You know, the, the,
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  there's always shame and guilt when there's addictions.
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  You know, and I, I would say, of course, I'm not a mental health therapist.
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  I'm, I specialize with addiction. Um,
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  but a lot of clients that I work with,
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  they also may have some mental health and,
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  and there is that shame and guilt with mental health as well. Um,
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  and so there's definitely some of those internal beliefs
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  and those internal barriers that lead to either someone not
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  reaching out for help or when they do,
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  or if they're forced to with courts, um, that they,
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  they really have these walls up, right? There's the defensiveness, there's the,
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  there's the, um,
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  not wanting to engage or we're really
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  unsure.
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  And I think what it really comes down to is that anytime that
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  we have fears or we have uncertainty, or we have,
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  you know, um, past experiences, I hear that a lot as well.
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  If there's some past experiences of counselors or,
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  or treatment programs that have, have really mistreated them and,
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  and made them feel shameful or made them feel, you know,
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  that they're not trying hard enough or they're not doing enough for their own
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  recovery, that it really can, it can really trigger these,
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  what I call saboteurs. Um, and, and these saboteurs,
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  the ones I most often find, and this is,
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  you know, it's common language or common, um,
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  archetypes, I suppose, that we are all familiar with, um,
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  where we have a stickler or a controller,
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  or we have a victim or victim mindset, you know, that's, uh,
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  a buzzword that people are familiar with, or even a people pleaser. Um,
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  you know, those saboteurs,
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  they're there as a defense mechanism.
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  They're there to protect us from harm, what we perceive as harm,
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  and they're based on our past experiences, they're based on, you know,
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  different interactions or situations that we've had to get through that we're
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  challenging and difficult for us to get through. And so I,
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  I often find that if there is barriers,
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  if there are those internal barriers up,
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  it's because the person's subconscious is trying to protect them.
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  And,
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  and that's a very easy thing to work with when we are aware that those
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  defense mechanisms are just to preserve the self and just to preserve
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  our own wellbeing.
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  And so we can work around that by reducing those defense mechanisms.
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  We can work around that by, you know,
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  really addressing the person's fears and talking to those fears
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  and,
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  and really listening to what the person has to say and what their perspective
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  is.
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  And they're going to be, you know, they're going to be different kinds of,
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  of fears and, you know, anxieties and, and mental blocks for the,
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  you know, for each individual person.
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  Absolutely. It's, it's very individualized to the person's experiences,
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  their beliefs and, and what they were taught in their life as well. You know,
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  oftentimes we develop our defense mechanisms through watching other people
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  growing up, defending themselves or, you know,
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  their responses to stressful situations.
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  So we often learn that as well from others around us.
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  Sure, yeah, that makes sense. And I, you know, this kind of touches on,
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  um, if,
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  if the sort of behavioral health movement that we're seeing
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  in recent days is gonna be successful and equitable,
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  I've spoken with a lot of leaders recently who believe that if that's going to
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  be the case, that healthcare needs to meet people where they're at,
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  you know, you can't, you can't, uh,
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  set up something that's supposed to help people with their behavioral health
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  and, and, uh, expect them to come to you and conform to what you need.
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  Healthcare needs to meet the patients. And not every person,
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  their culture approaches wellness the same way as you were just talking about.
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  So, you know, what are your thoughts about, about all of that?
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  Are there benefits to incorporating some of these, uh, you know,
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  maybe non-traditional options into a patient's treatment plan that,
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  that are not in the, you know, DSM five necessarily?
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  Yeah, absolutely. And, and that is completely accurate. You know,
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  the leaders that you're speaking with, they,
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  they really have awareness and insight into what is is
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  actually working for folks. You know, like you said,
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  we can't expect people to meet us where we are, you know, and,
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  and for them to jump through hoops sometimes. I mean, there are, I mean,
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  for example, transportation barriers, there's barriers of, you know,
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  access if in rural areas. And, you know, there's, um,
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  there's, when we meet people where they're at,
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  then we can help them walk towards their health and wellbeing
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  where, from where they are,
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  because everybody's in a different place and everybody has different resources
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  that they have access to.
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  So it's absolutely accurate that we need to meet people where they are.
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  And that includes when we think about mind, body, spirit, that includes,
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  you know, there might be atheists that don't have that spiritual
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  practices in their life,
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  and we can still serve them in a way that we can bring,
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  you know, our own healing in terms of science,
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  right? We can bring healing. I mean, spiritual healing is also quantum physics.
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  So we can bring some different language and some different ways
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  that we can really speak to people with their own beliefs and,
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  and be able to create that universal language to, to heal mind,
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  body, spirit, no matter where they're coming from. And, and I think that's a,
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  that's a responsibility that every practitioner has that is working in
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  healthcare or behavioral healthcare for folks to really
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  understand and,
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  and get that understanding in assessments and early evaluations of
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  where is this person right now in their journey and where are they coming
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  from and what perspective are they coming from, from a cultural perspective and,
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  and in general their resources and how can we
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  make the service, make our treatment plan, make our,
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  our offering, you know, of healing to,
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  to meet them with those, all those individual factors.
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  And, and that really brings us to, you know,
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  when we create treatment plans, we, we should be touching on mind, body, spirit.
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  We should be touching on what is the person's physical health looking like and
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  how can we improve that while at the same time,
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  what is their mental health look like and how can we work to improve that at the
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  same time?
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  And what does their spiritual health look like and how can we help support and
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  improve that? You know, sometimes folks,
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  their spiritual connection is that they believe in aliens, right? And,
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  and that's okay. You know, if,
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  if that's what they can connect to something outside
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  of our, our earth here and,
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  and just our very small piece of the universe,
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  then that can just help them expand, right?
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  But we just have to understand what is their, what is their language?
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  What is their belief?
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  What are the things that we can bring to them to help bridge that gap between
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  mind, body, spirit?
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  Yeah. You were trying, you know, in this line of work, you're trying to,
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  to help somebody help themselves trying to, trying to, um,
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  care for someone's, I mean, behavioral health, we keep saying,
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  and if you are, you know,
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  trying to do that without addressing something that may be important to that
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  person, like, you know, their faith or their spirituality,
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  that I don't think would be as effective as if you, uh, you know,
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  introduce a care plan that incorporates those things that,
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  that this patient might value very highly.
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  Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and I think, you know,
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  just thinking about if,
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  if that is important to someone creating that safe space
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  for them to communicate that, right? Because if there is shame, guilt,
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  if there is, you know,
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  a lot of touchiness about some of these things that may be important to them or
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  they feel that it's not important to you as the practitioner, you know,
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  if I have a client that, that I'm, I'm speaking with,
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  I really need to create this safe space where they are comfortable with
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  communicating things that, that they might feel judged about,
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  right?
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  Because if I'm creating that safe space for them to open up and talk
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  about the things that are important to them,
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  then I can create the treatment plan that's gonna best serve them. And, and I,
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  that's one of the barriers, you know, kind of to circle around to, um, to our,
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  the first part of our conversation,
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  some of the biggest barriers to that happening for
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  clients to open up and,
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  and for them to share the things that are important to them is that
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  container of judgment and, and those feelings of, if I bring this up,
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  will I be judged? Will I be shut down? Will this be, you know,
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  put aside as if it's not actually that important? Uh,
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  and and so it's really important that practitioners, doctors,
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  anyone that's in the healthcare behavioral health field,
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  that we are really creating that space of acceptance and,
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  and love for them and their journey and their wellbeing
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  so that we can really communicate, I'm here for you. Right?
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  That's really what we want them to feel and, and we want them to feel open to,
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  to share that back. And, you know,
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  just to get a little more specific about addiction,
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  because addiction is so, is such,
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  it already comes with shame. It already comes with the guilt of, of, you know,
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  there's something wrong with me cuz I have addiction. And so when,
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  when clients have connections with their doctors or they see new
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  doctors, um, that a lot of times that's not something that's talked about,
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  you know, that's not something that gets brought up.
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  And a lot of that is the shame and guilt and fear
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  of not being able to get their needs met. Such, for example, you know,
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  with, um, medications or with, um,
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  mental health medications or, you know, controlled substances,
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  it's very difficult for someone to talk to a doctor with fear that
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  they may not get their needs met if there's judgment
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  about whether they can responsibly use those controlled substances, right?
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  But there's a lot of ways that a lot of interventions that
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  doctors and and clinics can use in order to support someone
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  through their addiction journey,
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  and also make sure that they have the options for
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  if they're wanting medications, if they're wanting, you know, to have,
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  have this option that they also can,
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  can take advantage and, and have that option for their own wellbeing.
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  Um, and, and, you know, sometimes it means that the, the,
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  the prescriptions are written maybe for a week instead of a month.
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  Maybe there's, you know, more frequent visits to check in. Maybe there's,
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  there is follow up with how many pills do you have left in your bottle after,
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  you know, three or four days. And just monitoring. And,
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  and if there are problems that it doesn't come into a place of
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  punishment of, okay, well now you're just cut off, you know,
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  it comes into a place of what can I do more to support you?
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  What is it that we can bring in to give you more support with your journey,
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  which may be therapy, it may be, you know, a different, um, type of medication.
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  It, it, you know,
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  instead of creating that place of punishment and shaming even more.
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  And sometimes it's not intentional, sometimes, you know, it's out of concern,
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  but it creates shame in that person. Um, and,
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  and so there's a lot of options. You know, harm reduction is a,
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  a buzzword that is, um, is,
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  is very helpful for understanding how we can approach, um,
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  folks with addictions without expecting them to be perfect tomorrow.
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  Hmm. Just touching on, you know, this, this shame and,
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  and guilt factor that's, that can be, you know, really common here.
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  You've kind of touched on this already a little bit, but if you could,
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  if you could tell us how do we get people to be more willing and comfortable to
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  talk about all this stuff with their doctors, uh, you know,
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  as I kind of put you on this pedestal of having all of the answers real
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  quick, but, uh, what's, what are your thoughts here?
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  Uh, well, you know, my thoughts, again, it, it just goes back to that,
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  that space of acceptance and, and non-judgment,
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  right? If,
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  if it's that shame and guilt that's already there is they're
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  already going to be listening for where is the
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  judgment coming from? What statement, you know,
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  does that sound a little judgmental? Does that sound like, you know, they're,
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  they're, they're feeling like I'm, there's something wrong with me,
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  right?
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  So people that already experience shame and already have that in their mind,
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  in their thoughts on a regular basis every day, they,
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  they're very sensitive and, and very acutely aware,
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  I should maybe put it that way.
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  They're very acutely aware of judgmental tones and judgmental
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  statements that people can make. And so really, you know, coming into the,
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  uh, meeting with someone with an open mind and,
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  and really just communicating that care and compassion and
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  non-judgmental, that is really those biggest steps. You know, I,
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  I often have clients that come in, you know, they're court ordered and, um,
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  and they're already on the defensive because they believe that everything they
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  say to me is gonna get back to the courts. You know, that there,
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  I have to really talk about, here's limits of confidentiality.
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  I'm here to support you.
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  My goal is to help you with your addictions and to help you address your
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  addictions. I I'm not here to punish you, you know,
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  I really have to make that clear and be open about what
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  exactly my intentions are to support this person so that they don't,
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  their own assumptions and their own thoughts of, um,
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  shame. Do not take over. You know,
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  if I leave space for someone to guess whether I'm judge judging them,
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  they're,
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  I'm already losing them because their own internal defense mechanisms are
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  telling them, yes, they're judging you. And so I really have to be open with,
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  I'm not here to judge you. I really wanna support you.
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  I can do that if I know more information. Um, things like that.
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  Does that make sense?
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  Yeah, yeah. Just, just, you know, being very conscious of your communication,
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  you know,
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  connotations of things you say and tone and gotta be very careful
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  about that kind of stuff. Is that fair.
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  To say? Yeah.
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  And I would even go a little farther into saying that it's not only about
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  the statements and the words that you use because energy exists, right? Like,
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  we can walk into a room and somebody doesn't even have to say anything,
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  and we can already feel like maybe they're judging us, or we can,
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  if we walk into a room where two people have been arguing and they haven't said
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  anything,
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  maybe they're looking away from us and we ha don't even see their face,
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  but we can still feel that energy, right?
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  So it's not even simply on that,
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  that basic level of what words we're using and being really careful with our
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  communication. It's a deeper level of, in your heart,
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  are you judging this person?
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  Because e even if you are very careful with your words,
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  energy is felt and people can feel that judgment
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  because it's an energy force, right?
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  And so it's really about how can you walk into a situation and actually not
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  be judgmental?
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  How can you listen to a client talk about their addiction and
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  not feel that, that there's anything wrong with that person, right?
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  Like, we often think, oh,
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  well there's something wrong with them cuz they have addiction.
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  But as soon as we think that, as soon as we have that thought, that's,
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  that thought creates an energy that is transferred to our client and to our,
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  the person that we're talking to.
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  And so it goes deeper into what are our own judgments and what are our
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  own saboteurs that are in this space with this client,
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  and how can we ensure that we are coming with an open mind, an open heart,
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  and a loving heart.
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  You can't just talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. And, uh.
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  You got, yes. That was a beautiful summary.
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  . Oh, well, Victoria,
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  thank you so much for joining us on the podcast here. It's been a, uh, really,
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  really insightful conversation.
• 23:20
  Awesome. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. This was fun. And um,
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  and I hope that if you have any other questions, that we can do this again.
• 23:28
  Absolutely. And for our audience, we hope you enjoyed the conversation.
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  Uh, to find more of Becker's podcasts, uh,
• 23:37
  go to becker's healthcare.com/podcasts.