Latest / The Golden Chronicles / Episode 15: Normal- That's Not How I Do It...
Transcript
- victoria: Hi, welcome to the Golden Chronicles Podcast. If you've been with us for a while, welcome back. If you're new, welcome. We're glad you're here. My name is Victoria and I'm a boomer. Danielle: I'm Danielle and I'm the Millennial. and today's topic is going to be something that is so What's the word? normal for me. we are going to be talking about this like idea or concept of normal and what that looks like for us and how we experience that and how we reconcile being in a relationship with someone who we feel like has different a different normal than us and what that looks like and so I this is so real this is something that really does take up space in my head and I'm really excited to kind of like process this and digest this with you guys here victoria: so let's look up the definition. You know how we do here on the Golden Chronicles. We love we love a good definition. Danielle: We love a good definition. victoria: So normal. usual, expected, familiar, or typical implies conformity to a baseline, standard, or routine. It carries the idea of being correct, proper, or expected in a given context. Danielle: So normal. I think that sometimes we I get normal and common confused and I think that that's probably not a unique experience. I think that that's probably common for people. So that's what normal is, but then when we talk about common, what's common? victoria: So comment simply describes something that happens frequently, is widespread, or occurs in large numbers. Danielle: Okay, so normal is expected, familiar, or typical, and common happens frequently or widespread. So just because something is common doesn't mean that it is normal. victoria: I would say it's the opposite. Danielle: routine. victoria: I would say that just because it's normal, it's not common. Danielle: Hm, just because it's familiar, doesn't mean that it happens frequently. Just because something's normal to you doesn't mean that's commonly widespread. Yeah. victoria: Common. Right. Right. Danielle: so normal is something that conforms to a standard but sometimes those and victoria: And accept it. Danielle: accepted, yeah. But sometimes those standards and expectations are common and sometimes those standards and expectations are not common. Yeah, That ch that checks out in my brain, yeah. Thanks for processing that with me. Appreciate that. victoria: Yeah. Danielle: I think that It's interesting because I feel a little bit obsessed with this idea of like normal and what's normal and where is normal, where do I fall on this scale of what's normal and what's not normal. And so this is something that I think about a lot. as my life experiences continue to grow and expand and I'm starting to see things differently or see the way that other people live differently or whatever, it's really challenging my idea of what I think is normal. Even a little bit with recently being diagnosed with ADHD, like, okay, but what felt normal for me for thirty five years maybe was just my neurodivergent brain and not necessarily what was this like idea of normal. Does that make sense? victoria: Yes. Danielle: I think a lot about where the idea of like normal comes from and what kinds of things do I feel like are normal for me versus what may not be normal for me but what is normal for other people. And so where do you feel like your idea of normal comes from? victoria: Definitely from my upbringing and the way that I was raised and the things that were normal in my home. my mom was a a single mother for many years. she worked outside of the home. summer vacations where we did chores every day during the summer for years. Danielle: Mm-hmm. victoria: That was our normal. It wasn't about hanging out with our friends. It was about the normal was making sure that the floors were moped, the dishes were done, the dusting was done, the windows were clean. Danielle: Mm-hmm. Yep. victoria: That was normal for us. so yes, normal definitely came from my mom and my dad, mostly my mom. Danielle: Yeah. victoria: from her idea of normal. Danielle: Yeah. victoria: What she wanted normal to be actually. Because thinking about it, I think that my upbringing was a lot different than her upbringing. So Danielle: Mm-hmm. victoria: her normal as a child was even different from my normal as a child, Danielle: Yeah. victoria: raised by that mom. so she determined what would be normal You know, she may not have thought, Well, this is going to be our normal life, but she did create a normal for our family that was based Danielle: Right. victoria: on who she was and not necessarily the normal that she had as a child. Danielle: Right. A new normal. She wanted to create something new for you guys. Yeah. victoria: Yes, a new normal. Danielle: Yeah. I wonder if that also had to do with the fact that when Nana was a child, culture was different than when she was an adult and so her idea of normal was evolving based on not just like she had seen more things, so she was able to kind of build a picture of new normal as opposed to just kind of following what everybody before her had done. Although I think that some of probably those habits or ideas probably still trickled down, but she wanted to kinda think outside of the box and creating something new. victoria: I would I would agree with that. Danielle: I think that I have this like idea of what normal is based on yes, a lot of what our family considered normal and the way that I was raised and stuff, but there's also the societal like expectation of what normal is. So apart from what just your family thinks is normal, then there's like what society thinks is normal. our family growing up was one that we were at church on Sundays, we were at church on Mondays, we were at church on Tuesdays, we were at church on Wednesdays, every day of the week there was something going on at the church that we were probably involved in. And that was very normal to basically spend every day at some kind of church function where like that's not necessarily normal for society. Was it wrong? No. Was it normal for our family? Yes. But I think growing up that's one thing that like being involved in the church so heavily and then realizing that like not every family goes to church at five nights a week or even two days a week, you know, not every family places the same value on even going to church. And so like twice victoria: Twice on one day. Danielle: yeah, twice on one day some days on some days, you know. moving to victoria: Ha ha ha Danielle: Tennessee When I first moved to Tennessee, it was really common in the community that I was a part of every time you met someone new, their first question was, What's your name? And their second question was, What church do you go to? And that just felt very normal. And when I started to expand my community, I started to realize that like not everybody was raised in church and not everybody is still in church and so asking that question, what church do you go to, only works in certain groups. And it felt really, really normal to ask that because for the longest time my whole circle, my work circle, my, personal circle, my church circle, they were all kind of like intertwined. And so it felt really normal to meet new people in one of those circles and to ask what church they went to. But that's not really a normal question outside of my community. I mean it's a normal question. It's not an uncommon question, but it's not it's my victoria: That's your normal. Danielle: normal. Not every community feels like that's normal. I've met several people who have not stepped a foot in church and so to ask them what church they go to just feels like such a random question to ask them. victoria: and could be offensive and that's only because their normal is not your normal. Danielle: Correct. The moral value that's placed on things also is different in different communities, right? So like in the community that I grew up in, we believed that For example, premarital sex was wrong. There's like a moral value on having sex before marriage. Where like there are other people who I met, friend groups who I met where like everybody's sleeping around, and there's no like that's just like kind of like the normal thing that they do, and there's no morality to sleeping with people in your friend group as long as everyone's a consenting adult and everybody's having a good time. You know, there's and so just understanding the differences and not only like the social expectations. but also like the moral the morality of behavior and the the value that I assigned on behavior and what was normal and what wasn't normal is something that I'm learning to understand. I've learned. I'm in the I still have to learn. I'm still in the process of learning it. I it still shows up you know. victoria: And you know, as far as having sex outside of marriage, I mean that goes on in all different generations and the normal in that is to lie about it. That's the normal. That's the normal and to Danielle: Yeah. Yeah. victoria: you know, too, you know, so Danielle: And I think some of that is the culture says that they, you know, stigmatize maybe a woman who sleeps around versus a man who sleeps around or whatever. And so there is some of that and then then there's also some Some religious or familial like value that's placed on premarital sex. And that's may not be normal in all of the groups. I feel like some norms are rules that people feel they have to follow based on what a typical person might do. And there are other norms that are rules that people feel like they have to follow based on what other people expect of of them, right? So like is this a rule that I'm following? Do I think that this is normal because everybody's doing it, or I think that this is something that everybody should do, or is this something that I think is normal because what are people gonna think of me if I do something different? victoria: I think there's a sort of normalcy, what we believe is normal in the way that we communicate with one another. however we meet people every day and we don't know their normal. We don't Danielle: Yeah. victoria: know their background, we don't know what they've experienced and here we come with our normal way of connecting with people and it's not their normal at all. Danielle: Yeah. I feel like that's just across the board. Like we sometimes walk into situations where we feel like what we know is normal. victoria: Normal. We're all normal. Danielle: yeah, and it's hard for us to think about the fact that like, okay, well what's normal for us might not be normal for someone else. Like our way of victoria: Right. Danielle: communicating may not be someone else's way of communicating. And I think too even in that, in some places that you go, in some circles or communities To give c compliments or encouragement is so well received. people love getting compliments and people love being encouraged. But then in other cultures, if you give a compliment or you're trying to encourage someone, they're looking at you like you got two ha two heads, you know, like I was gonna say two eyes. Everybody I hope has two eyes. but looking at you ha like you have two heads. Like you give someone a compliment and they're just it's just not part of the culture that they grew up in or not the community that they're part of. They're not giving each other encouragement or anything like that. And so it just feels very abnormal. not saying that either is right or wrong, but it's just understanding that everybody's normal is kind of a little different sometimes. victoria: It is and if we go back to the definition, normal is usual. So usually if you give someone a compliment, you would think that they would, you know, smile or be shy or say thank you. normal is Danielle: Yeah, in your culture where giving cal compliments is like victoria: True. Danielle: seen as a positive. Talking to strangers is seen as, you know, being kind or being nice, where like other places it's like victoria: Yes. Danielle: if you talk to a stranger, it's like, Why are you talking to me? F France for one you know. But victoria: Right. Right. Right. And and also normal based on the definition is familiar. And more importantly, normal is typical. Danielle: Well, I think normal being familiar is like a big key, right? Like we think that what is familiar is what's normal. And I think sometimes we don't we're not able to think outside of what's familiar because that that's not familiar for us and so clearly that's not normal. If it's not familiar. For example, like being home schooled. Like meeting a family who's home schooling their kids is familiar to me. It's I was home schooled from K through twelfth grade, you guys. Like meeting people who are home schooled is so common to me. But there are some people who like I'm the only person who they've ever met who was home schooled. And they're like, That's so weird and it's just unfamiliar. It's not that it's Yeah, right. Or they'll be victoria: Was that legal? Danielle: like, You're so normal for being home schooled and it's like, victoria: Ha ha ha. Danielle: Yeah, because you haven't met any homeschooled, you know anybody who is homeschooled so victoria: Right. Danielle: it's unfamiliar so the fact that like I'm a normal human being just feels weird to you because you're like I thought victoria: Right. Yeah. Danielle: you know I've never met anybody who was homeschooled before. victoria: Right. And not that the Duggars were bad people. let's change that. Not that they Danielle: Well, to be debated. No, we're gonna keep it. victoria: But they homeschooled and so when they meet you, you're not like the Duggars, you know. So so Danielle: Yeah. Yes, exactly. And they're like, What? Although there is a documentary about the organization that I was a part of, also the same one that did a documentary about the Duggars, but that's neither here nor there. victoria: It was very eye opening. They Danielle: Yeah. victoria: their normal was definitely different. Danielle: Yeah. is it important to be normal? Like what why is there so much importance on being normal? I think that for me, this idea of normal, I don't wanna be an outlier. Right. Like I just wanna fall statistically speaking, right, when you're looking at at statistical normal I wanna fall within typical responses. I want my quirky personality things to still be quirky, but still fall within the realm of normal. I don't wanna be too far of an outlier. a hippie, but I don't wanna be a hippie that people are like, have you seen what Danielle's? into these days. I just want to be like a normal hippie. And so I'm like, why does this feel so important? Why does it why can't I just be quirky me and not care whether it's normal or outside of the normal boundaries? And I think that normal definitely gives me a sense of belonging. It gives me like social safety and a little bit of predictability and I feel like in that context, normal is important because that is important to me. But If someone doesn't place like high value on social safety, then who cares? Or if they find a community that also feels what they feel is normal is normal, then the idea of social safety isn't keeping you in the lines of society or or culture. I feel like this is so deep right now, but it's it's seriously something that I think about so often. victoria: also normal kind of expands and grows. because Danielle: Yeah. victoria: when you all were homeschooled, homeschooling was just becoming accepted and it some people were still being persecuted and prosecuted for homeschooling. Danielle: Yeah. victoria: But but now it has grown and it's it's normal. It's you know, it's mainstream. It's Danielle: Yeah. It's mainstream. Yeah. victoria: mainstream. so there's so there's that in Danielle: I think in situations like that where we were home schooling, I think sometimes people can feel threatened when people make decisions that are different than what they think are normal. And so I think people were confused about home schooling and they maybe got little bit defensive of well, why do you feel like you need to home school the public school system isn't good enough or whatever, but I think the more that people learn, the more that things become common, the more normal, quote unquote, they become. And the more the idea of normal can expand because now we're learning more and we're we're not misunderstanding. We're able to kind of get a a fuller picture of something and and realize that it it is common and it does have benefits and it isn't hurting anyone else or whatever it might be. victoria: And I think because when a certain thing is new, it's new and people don't Danielle: Yeah. victoria: understand how a certain thing that may not be normal can still be beneficial. Danielle: Yeah. victoria: homeschool is beneficial, Danielle: Yeah. victoria: I think that People just don't understand, we don't know it all. And so we've just gone along with what's been told to us because it was someone else's normal. The Danielle: Yeah. victoria: educators that felt like it was against the law, their normal was to go to school and their parents normal. Well maybe most cases I would say, but there probably were people back decades ago and generations ago who did homeschool their kids. Danielle: Yeah. victoria: or they were in a one s one room schoolhouse, which was kind of like a homeschool situation. A co op a co op. Danielle: R right. A co op. victoria: And then it became then the government got involved, it became a system and it became Danielle: Yeah. victoria: the rule of the land and it was pushed as this is normal. And Danielle: Yeah. victoria: if you don't do this, you're not normal and that's some sort of crime or Danielle: Right. victoria: some Danielle: Yeah. I think, this idea of normal we've talked about before, but it teaches us how to like move through the world when we have a thought of what's normal and what's not normal. Like it helps us come up with our rhythms and our traditions helps us move through the world. But I think it all can also help this idea of like what's normal and what's not normal can also make us be really judgy towards things that we don't understand or things that we haven't experienced. And it can cause us to think that, different is wrong or unfamiliar is wrong or someone else is weird because they have different beliefs. or or that something is wrong because it doesn't fit into this idea that we're taught and I think that that's really harmful. And I think it can have an effect on ourselves too, right? Like not giving ourselves grace for things that are normal, like the normal struggles. The normal everyday struggles that sometimes, we feel like we're the only one and that we're not normal because we're going through this, but like Everybody kinda goes through it, you know. I think I have to make a very clear distinction because just because something's not normal for me doesn't mean that it's unhealthy, and just because something is normal for me doesn't mean that it's healthy. ahead. victoria: You know, I think of Mira, her normal is definitely different than your normal as a child. Danielle: yeah, for sure. victoria: you weren't you didn't have to divide your time between two households and four parents. But Danielle: Mm-hmm. victoria: that is her normal. so normal does evolve, I guess, if that's the right word I wanna use. Normal evolves. Danielle: Yeah. And neither one of those I feel like Mira is in a very healthy family dynamic, even between the two households. Like we have a victoria: I agree. Danielle: healthy way of communicating, we model healthy things for her even though I mean I don't think being a child in two households is common now, but yeah. But I think victoria: Yeah, I would agree. Danielle: really I have to make that distinction in my head, not necessarily with Mira, but when I'm starting to f feel judgy or judge myself is this, you know, healthy? Because if it's unhealthy, even if everybody's doing it, then I don't need to adopt that for myself, you know? but if it's maybe doesn't feel normal or common, but I don't feel like it's unhealthy, then why am I being so hard on myself about it? my lifestyle is very uncommon. The fact that I travel for work. there are so many times where like I go into situations and people are like, You have a husband and a child, like that's not that's not weird. They're not saying the word weird, but it's just very uncommon and so but it's normal for us. It's the way that we choose to live our life. It's our community lives life very similarly and so it's become normal for us and it's not unhealthy. And I think that some people are like, you know, being away from home and having a child and a husband and not being there is not healthy, but it's it's it's functional for us, it works for us, it works well for us, and so when I'm judging myself really hard or, you know, listening to what other people are saying, like after by myself, this is healthy, this functions for us. This isn't dysfunctional. This isn't harmful to anybody in our family. Yeah. victoria: It's not dysfunctional. So if it's not normal, it doesn't mean that it is dysfunctional. Danielle: Right. Or unhealthy or you know, anything like that. I think there are times not to be confused, right? There are times that something is not normal and it's dysfunctional and it's unhealthy. And I think, you know, we sh also need to be able to recognize those things. But just because something's unfamiliar doesn't mean that we automatically assign the fact that it's unhealthy or or dysfunctional or bad or or any kind of moral negativity assigned to it. victoria: Right. Right. Some people's normal is not safe. some people have had a horrifying normal that some of us cannot even understand, imagine, relate to, have conversations with a person about because we just don't understand how bad their normal was. Danielle: Yeah. Yeah, I think that ties into just because something is normal doesn't mean that it's healthy. And I think that for some people, unfortunately what they think is normal maybe isn't healthy. For example, somebody who's like in a abusive situation whose parents were in abusive relationship and so now they're in an abusive relationship and it just feels normal. Like yeah, guys hit their wives. You know, it's just a normal thing. But there is a line, right? There are things that are unhealthy and unsafe. and actually not normal, not just an opinion of like one person, but like really not healthy. I think sometimes when someone has an unhealthy normal they've probably jumped through some hoops in their mind to allow themselves to feel like this is normal to begin with, and then when we come in and we're like, That's actually not normal. It's not normal to be abused. it just feels unsafe, which is crazy. victoria: Right. And they might and they might not understand because they still have an allegiance to the people that have made their normal unsafe. Danielle: Yeah. victoria: because they don't know that that is not the norm. That Danielle: Right. victoria: is not normal. They think that the way that they're being abused or treated or live, no matter how bad it is, they're thinking that is normal. Danielle: Yeah. And I think like whether someone's in an unhealthy or unsafe space or someone's living in a way that feels unfamiliar to you I think some things apply across the board. Like we continue to be there for our our friend or our our child or our parent when they're in a situation that either feels unfamiliar or that is unsafe. Like we're not just gonna like, well that's unsafe and you're being dumb, you know I'm gonna peace out. Like we still wanna like victoria: Right. So you wanna have Danielle: right? victoria: connections with that person. Danielle: Like if I'm being crazy, a Like if I'm being crazy, a victoria: with that person. Danielle: little bit crazy and and maybe living a life that's a little bit too outlandish. I want someone to still like have grace for me and as long as I'm not doing anything to like hurt myself or hurt others or you know that they would come to me with curiosity as opposed to just coming with judgment. victoria: Right. So you wanna have Danielle: right? Do you feel like you have examples of how something being normal or familiar or unfamiliar has shown up in our lives as mom and daughter? victoria: For me it I think today's the younger generations are more willing and it's more normal for adults in your generation to take to be okay with being on multiple medications. When people in my generation we're trying to get away from medications. Danielle: Mm. victoria: So I think the normal for the older generation is to try to run from the medication, and the normal for the younger generation is to seek the medication. I think we have two differing opinions on Danielle: Are you talking about specifics victoria: Maybe. Danielle: to our relationship? victoria: well, like, you were encouraging me to get on medication for ADHD and I don't want more medication. so my normal right now is that I'm on multiple medications and I don't wanna add to that. Whereas a younger person or you like maybe you would be more willing to get on medication 'cause you only have one medication to take anyway. So Danielle: Yeah, but also I feel like I see it as the medication just makes my life easier. And I feel like I see how the things that you struggle with from an outside perspective and how I had some of those same struggles and and being on the medication has helped me to overcome those things where you I guess just feel like you have to just work through it. 'Cause you don't want to be on another medication. victoria: Yes, because I don't want to be on another medication. Danielle: Where I'm like, you're already on thirty-seven medications. What's a thirty-eighth if it's gonna make your life easier? You know what I'm saying? Like Pop it in there. victoria: Yeah. And I just don't want to add another medication to my list. Now, that may just be a generational thing. 'Cause some people in my generation are like, Yeah, hand me another medication. yeah, it could just be a you thing. Could just be a me thing. Danielle: Yeah, it could just be a you thing. It could just be you think it's normal to Yeah. Where I'm like, Girl, for me, what's normal is not feeling like I wanna cry every fifteen minutes. Like victoria: Yeah, no, I'm just gonna drink some give me some g yeah, give me some ginger chi with cinnamon and black pepper and I'll be okay. Danielle: Yeah. I think so, good example. victoria: Yeah. Danielle: I don't understand. I mean I understand, like on a I I understand English, right? Like I understand the words that are coming out of your mouth level. I understand why you don't wanna, you know, be on medication, but on a emotional or practical level, I'm like, Yeah, but it would just make your life so much easier You know, but I What's normal for me isn't what's normal for you and so I can't be judgy about that. I mean I can, but it's not gonna be beneficial for a relationship You're an adult, you're making your own decisions. I can encourage you to ask questions to your doctor or to do your research, but like the the decision is yours and whether that's a decision that feels normal for me or if it feels completely outlandish and off the wall, like you're an adult and I have to support that. And I feel like same thing with like a d you know, parents, you boomers, to people like me, The idea of granted our relationship is we're very fortunate because I do feel like, you know, we have different ideas of we're we're broadening our idea of what normal is. But also you guys, this should be a drinking game. You guys should take a shot every time we say the word normal. yeah, of course, that's what I meant to say. Ginger ale victoria: Ginger El, a shot of ginger ale, shot of ginger ale. Danielle: ginger beer, root beer. victoria: Ha ha Danielle: no, but victoria: Ha ha think in our in our family too what what's normal is complementing each other and encouraging one another so that's a normal that we have in our family that others may not have in their family Danielle: Yeah. victoria: we still have differences of opinion we still have difficult conversations but the normal is to work towards connecting and having a good relationship. That's our normal. Where some people's normal is just to say bye bye. Cut off. Snip snap. Yeah. And that's their Danielle: Yeah, cut off. Snip snip. victoria: normal. Danielle: yeah. Yeah. victoria: And know if you Danielle: the idea of normal it's more than just these things about premarital sex and communication. it's just it it's a thread in everything. I think that sometimes when we get into conflict with people that we're close to you, it's because we're just assuming that our way is the only way. victoria: Right. once we begin to understand that we do have different normals, it can only improve relationships between families and friends. 'Cause Danielle: Yeah, definitely. victoria: We have assumed that we all share the same normals. Danielle: Or when we Yes. Yeah. and really You know what they say about assuming. You know what they say about assuming. I think there's like Yeah. yeah. victoria: I definitely know. I've been there. Danielle: So I think like when someone is acting out of line with what I think is normal, I just have to ask myself, is this person acting in a way that is hurting people physically, emotionally, mentally? Because if it's not really doing any of those things, then like their idea of normal is Probably fine. I'm gonna mind my own biscuits. victoria: Right. Danielle: Mm-hmm. victoria: Also What others believe as normal can sometimes have an effect on another person and the way that person thinks of themselves. Danielle: Yeah. Well, not only other people, my idea of what's normal has affected the way that I think of myself. So like my idea of normal comes from my community, my circle. And so if I feel differently than those people feel, then I start to be a little bit hard on myself because their idea of normal is starting to shape how I see myself, even if I don't necessarily see that as normal. Does that make sense? victoria: I I would agree with that. because what people think is right or wrong and how it affects what we believe is normal. I think that carries throughout relationships in our lives. if I see a couple in my community and I see a woman and she's just waiting on him hand in foot, fixing his plate, or just always doing something for him. And that's her normal I would hope that I would not begin to judge my commitment to a person or my love or care for a person because That's not my normal. someone's normal that is even a nice normal. could have us thinking, we need to be that kind of normal. Danielle: Yeah, absolutely. I think that even what we perceive as someone else is normal. So like social media is a big thing. Like we see people posting their, you know, best selves. and so we can start to think negatively of ourselves because we're like, Well, this is normal. If everybody is able to get up and put on a full face of makeup in the morning and still cook dinner for their husband at night and not be completely overwhelmed or exhausted, then that must be what's normal and the fact that I'm feeling exhausted by three o'clock in the afternoon and I don't even have to go to work every day, like must mean that there's something wrong with me and One, it might be that they're not really showing what's normal for them, but two, like that's normal for them. Like I have anxiety, I anxiety clean. People will come over to my house and they'll be like, my gosh, your house is so clean and I'm like, my god, I was so stressed out yesterday because of something completely unrelated to my house, but my way of handling it was the fact that now my baseboards are spit shined, you know? Like and so like that's my normal way of victoria: Ha ha Danielle: handling my stress and anxiety. It's not that it's normal to have a clean house. It's I manically maniacally cleaning my house yesterday because I was stressed and so also comparison is the thief of joy. I like to say that, but what's normal for them may not be normal for you and what they're showing is normal might actually not be normal. It might be what they think is normal and they want what they want to portray as normal. Like you said, about the premarital sex, what's normal is that everybody lied about it. You know? Yeah. victoria: Yeah. That was that was the norm. and even with me thinking about where I live, you know, like on Facebook you look at these reels and these houses are grand and just beautiful and everything I would want in a house, you know. And talking about how someone else is normal can make us think about ourselves. I would begin to think, man, I didn't measure up, I you know, don't have that beautiful house. But in some places, like say New York City, people are living in apartments and a lot of don't own those apartments. Danielle: Yeah. victoria: And so what's normal in Southern California or even here in middle Tennessee Danielle: Yeah. victoria: is not normal in in New York City proper. In Manhattan. Danielle: Yeah. Yep in Manhattan. Yep. victoria: yes. And so we have to be mindful to know I guess we have to determine what normal is for us and be okay with our normal. Danielle: I think that is really what it comes down to. what is normal for us, what feels good for us, what works for us, what is not causing us to have undue anxiety or stress or what's not you know, if it's not harming ourselves or harming the people that we care about, then then we we are able to be our own normal. Our quirky normal selves, you know? Like we don't we don't have to try to conform to what someone else sees as normal. It really is about creating a normal for ourselves. I think about and this is like such a random example, but like I think about growing up and hearing about people who like were nudist, right? And being like, my gosh, that is victoria: Yeah. Danielle: so weird like you just like being naked, naked, no clothes, but they but victoria: Me naked? Danielle: for some people it's just like I was Born naked, why do I always have to cover up? Like why do I always have to wear pants? They're so uncomfortable. victoria: Mm-hmm. We got rid of pantyholes. We might even get rid of panties. Danielle: Yeah Yeah. For me, that's unfamiliar and that feels uncomfortable victoria: Yeah. Danielle: and that's probably not something that I would be into, but like I'm not gonna assign morality to someone who decides that they don't wanna wear clothes. Why are clothes why do clothes have a moral bearing? You know? You think of the way that someone chooses to dress, like why am I gonna put a moral bearing on the fact that you wanna wear flip flops at dinner. That's maybe not normal for me because this is a nice restaurant and I decided to wear nice shoes but like There is some places like in Florida where flip flops are like the state shoe. You know, like if you're victoria: It's the shoe. Danielle: it is perfectly normal to see someone at a restaurant with flip flops on. We're like in tennis yeah, church going to victoria: Church. Danielle: church with with flip flops on. Where like in Nashville it's like, mm, you're wearing flip flops to victoria: Yeah. Danielle: the bar? You have a you have flip-flops on. Ooh victoria: Ha ha ha. Yeah. Yeah. Danielle: Yeah. I think sometimes we just have to remind ourselves to question what the idea of normal taught us to believe about ourselves. That's where I'm at right now. what has that idea of normal taught me about myself? And is it true? victoria: What can you s can you expound on that? Danielle: I am thirty eight and I do have a stepchild, but I have made the decision to not have my own children. Right, so in the headspace that I grew up in of feeling like we're be fruitful and multiply and my role is to victoria: yeah. Danielle: be a mother and to be a nurturer and that's normal and that's what all of my friends are doing and, what society says is common it's like, okay, well, what does that say about me? Am I like now abnormal? My job, right? being the wife who's away from home. a lot of times Cory is the primary caregiver in our household where society says that women are the primary caregivers to the children in the home. So like What does that say about me? What expectations have I placed on myself based on what I think is normal or not normal, and how is that affecting how I feel about myself? victoria: There are just so many new normals even in a family dynamic. stay at home dads that don't work at all. Danielle: Mm-hmm. victoria: households with two mommies or two daddies. Danielle: Or even women who have decided to be a family unit with like their best friend and their best friend's kids. So they're both divorced, they both got two kids, so now they're sharing a house together. They are a family. They're splitting the bills, two best friends and their kids living in a house together. That's like Not looking for a man, not looking for a marriage, completely satisfied, living with their best friend, raising their kids together. Not common. victoria: Not common at all, but but normal for that family. Danielle: Yeah. It's not an unhealthy or unsafe situation for them or for their kids. It's not harming their kids. It's you know, it's just not common. Right. victoria: It's just not what we would see as the are normal. It's not what we would consider normal. Danielle: So that's just something, to consider, what's normal for my mom's generation may not be normal for me and what's normal for me you know, other people who I come across might mind normal isn't normal for them and so just go into situations with some curiosity and an open mind and understanding and victoria: It's not a bad thing. Danielle: Yeah. Living outside the box. I feel like also like a lot of creativity comes out of things that aren't normal. Like if Freddie Mercury was just a normal person, Queen would be so lame. You know? victoria: Yeah. Danielle: If Elton John was just a normal musician, like we wouldn't have, you know, candle in the wind, you know. victoria: Yeah. Right, right. Danielle: Yeah. So I don't want us to get stuck in I say this to myself, this idea of like being normal and and conforming and trying to fit into this normal. Like there is being normal is so boring. There's so much beauty in thinking outside of the box and living outside of the box and finding new ways of thinking about things. I just feel like it really does it's so beneficial for us. victoria: so I'm very glad that we had this conversation today because it's going to help me to rethink my normal. And even just like we talked about, you know, homeschool growing and things growing, I can grow in what I believe is normal for me, which after, you know, working for forty years and now doing new things, writing and during the podcast, my normal is changing. You know, I don't get up at six and get dressed and drive to the office to be there at eight. That was the normal. And so now I have a new normal as I move forward in my life and move forward in new things. There's a new normal. So I think there's always gonna be a new normal as long as we're alive. Danielle: Yeah. I've said it before, the only thing that will never change is the fact that things will change. You know. victoria: Right. Yeah, I agree. Danielle: yeah. Well this is still gonna be on my brain. I'm still gonna be thinking about whether or not I'm normal, but this is good to kind of victoria: Well, thanks for joining us guys. Danielle: process it, to kind of accept that maybe normal is my gosh, I did this tour, and our thing was normal is not enough. Normal is not enough. and I don't know, maybe that is just sticking with me of what is normal and is it enough. But nor I'm like normal is enough. I really just wanna be normal. But but but it's twenty three, twenty four, maybe, mid twenties, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. But victoria: How old were you at that point? Can you you remember? Tw were you twenty? Really? okay. Yeah, normal is not enough. I remember that. I remember that tour. Yeah. Danielle: Well you guys, thank you so much for joining us in this processing, victoria: Thank you. Danielle: musing conversation. we are probably gonna do a couple more of these where it's just things that have been on our mind and things that we're processing and learning about. I mean, I guess all of our episodes are this, but this one in particular victoria: Right. Danielle: has just been on my mind and I'm trying to feel feel out where it fits in my world, but victoria: Yeah. Yeah. I I I'm I'm benefiting from knowing that that I don't have to be that my normal is changing. I'm benefiting from that. Danielle: Yeah. And that yeah, if your normal is safe and healthy, then you know, it is what it is. Thank you guys for being here. We're so glad to have you. Thanks for listening. victoria: Yeah. Yeah. It is what it is. Thank you. We are so glad to have you. Danielle: Yeah. If you guys feel so inclined, we would love it if you followed us on Instagram, followed us on Facebook, and if you have a wild hair and want to leave a review or a rating for us on Spotify or Apple Podcast, it means so much to us. We love seeing your comments, we love interacting with you guys, so please continue to do so. Yeah, that's it for this. victoria: And you can share with us your normal in the contents in the in the Danielle: Yeah. Yeah, what's something that you what is something that was normal in your family that as you got older you realized, mm, this isn't This isn't common. This isn't victoria: Yeah. Danielle: a thing that people do. We would love to hear that. Yeah. victoria: And we also are looking for your Christmas traditions because we want to add those to our Christmas podcast in December. So if you Danielle: Yes. victoria: would please just take the time to share with us your most favorite dessert, your favorite Christmas gift, your favorite event during the holidays. We'd really appreciate it and we'll use those in our episode Danielle: Alright, victoria: All right. Danielle: until next time. victoria: Bye. Danielle: Bye.