Latest / Systematic Geekology / The Ring: Cursed Tapes, Wells, and Horse Jumps

Transcript

The Ring: Cursed Tapes, Wells, and Horse Jumps · Systematic Geekology

• 1:15
  What is the price of revenge?
• 1:16
  We're gonna be asking this question a lot more on today's episode of Cismak Ecology, our Halloween Drive in series.
• 1:23
  This series based on American remakes of foreign films.
• 1:27
  And we have started the day with the ring.
• 1:29
  And it's not just me.
• 1:30
  Christian Ashley, of course.
• 1:31
  I am joined today by the wonderful investigator F.
• 1:34
  Garcia.
• 1:35
  How's it going, Evan?
• 1:36
  What's up?
• 1:36
  What's up, geeks?
• 1:37
  I'm doing well.
• 1:38
  I am excited to get into this.
• 1:42
  Talk to this a film that genuinely surprised me with the amount of lore that I had no idea was behind all of it.
• 1:51
  So this is.
• 1:52
  This is gonna be a fun one.
• 1:54
  You ain't kidding.
• 1:54
  I told Evan several times before this how he just gave me my newest type of fixation because I'd watched this film and ringu forever ago.
• 2:01
  But I got a lot of work done today, and it was a lot of fun.
• 2:04
  But we'll get into that in a bit.
• 2:06
  We have to introduce our other copas.
• 2:08
  John Eardley.
• 2:09
  Fresh out of the well, looking fine as ever.
• 2:11
  How's it going, John?
• 2:12
  Fresh out of the well.
• 2:13
  That is pretty accurate.
• 2:15
  I'm just.
• 2:16
  That's.
• 2:16
  That's where life has me.
• 2:17
  I've just been kind of climbing in and out.
• 2:21
  I'm, like, stuck in Groundhog Day where I keep taking Ls.
• 2:25
  But anyway, how about yourself?
• 2:28
  Doing all right, man.
• 2:29
  Glad to be recording you with you both.
• 2:31
  All right, so, gentlemen, we have just left the drive through the drive in theater.
• 2:37
  Saw this for the first time.
• 2:39
  What is the first reaction or first thing you want to say?
• 2:42
  I'll throw out my.
• 2:43
  My.
• 2:44
  My VCR when I get home.
• 2:48
  It's different times.
• 2:50
  Yeah, John.
• 2:51
  Yeah, that's funny.
• 2:52
  Looking back at the old technology.
• 2:54
  But anyway, put old technology aside, if I had just left the drive in, I would probably be know, freaked out about those.
• 3:02
  Yeah, those old fatback TV sets, you know, and.
• 3:07
  Yeah, looking at wells, like, whenever there's a well in a movie, it's.
• 3:12
  There's always something creepy and weird going on with it, some terrible backstory happening,.
• 3:17
  And it's like, oh, yeah, so story time real quick.
• 3:22
  My first reaction would be, I'm so scared right now.
• 3:25
  That would be because I saw this when I wasn't supposed to.
• 3:29
  I believe this was around the time my dad was taking my sister and I.
• 3:32
  He goes see a Chamber of Secrets when that released, because I can't think.
• 3:35
  It came out a couple weeks after this did, and my sister and I ended up in the wrong theater.
• 3:41
  And this started.
• 3:42
  And did you explain the Ashley family special first?
• 3:46
  Not yet.
• 3:46
  That Ashley special is something that can't be done anymore because theaters are too creepy now.
• 3:51
  They keep track of everything we see more than one film at a time.
• 3:54
  Going from theater to theater.
• 3:55
  Right, right, right.
• 3:57
  Working off a high school teacher salary.
• 4:00
  Then after the opening scene, I went, looked at my sister, and I said, I think we're in the wrong theater.
• 4:05
  And I was trying to put on a brave face.
• 4:08
  We barely got out of there.
• 4:09
  Our dad was, like, looking around for us, like, where'd you go?
• 4:12
  That's hilarious.
• 4:15
  So, yes, I'm so scared would be what I would have said, because obviously I didn't see the rest of the film at that point in time.
• 4:21
  But I was such a little weenie baby when it came to horror films at that stage in my life.
• 4:24
  That did not help it.
• 4:26
  Also, you got what you deserve for stealing.
• 4:30
  It's who we are.
• 4:31
  How many films were you in?
• 4:32
  I mean, this was actually would have been the first one.
• 4:35
  So we would have seen someone else after that.
• 4:37
  Okay.
• 4:37
  More than likely.
• 4:38
  I used to do the same thing.
• 4:40
  Yeah, I stay the whole day.
• 4:41
  I stay the whole day.
• 4:43
  That's how I saw Star wars, actually.
• 4:45
  Yeah.
• 4:46
  I came out of it.
• 4:47
  We came out of a different film.
• 4:50
  I pointed to my dad.
• 4:52
  It's when these special editions were coming out.
• 4:55
  I said, dad, what is that?
• 4:57
  And he said, you don't know who Darth Vader is?
• 5:00
  I'm like, no, I have no idea who Darth Vader is or what Darth Vader is.
• 5:04
  And then he.
• 5:05
  He takes a look around, he goes, let's go.
• 5:08
  And we.
• 5:08
  And then we walk into a theater playing it.
• 5:12
  So those were the days.
• 5:15
  Dad would always take us out of school when those released.
• 5:18
  Re released.
• 5:19
  And then when the prequel films came out, like, well, we're not going to school today.
• 5:23
  He said, as a school teacher, education is important, kids.
• 5:26
  Star wars way more important.
• 5:27
  Yes, this is Cult.
• 5:30
  Yeah.
• 5:30
  Yes.
• 5:31
  Hi.
• 5:32
  So we are picking the Ring today.
• 5:34
  This is the 2002American film based off of the 1998 Ringu.
• 5:40
  But there's some more history about there of other films that were made before the American film.
• 5:45
  We'll get there when we get there.
• 5:47
  So, Evan, you were the one who actually ultimately picked this.
• 5:50
  Well, technically, John, because it was the only film in the list of films that I gave that John had seen.
• 5:56
  So, like, you two, why did you pick this film?
• 5:58
  Go ahead, John.
• 5:59
  Well, I mean, besides the fact it's the only one I'd seen.
• 6:01
  I mean, I don't go out seeking horror movies.
• 6:04
  The Ring.
• 6:05
  I can't remember how I ended up seeing the movie.
• 6:08
  I thought it was.
• 6:08
  I think.
• 6:08
  I thought it was super interesting.
• 6:10
  And then I think I actually watched it because I watched Scary Movie 3 and I wanted to see the original context.
• 6:17
  Interesting.
• 6:18
  Noble.
• 6:19
  Yeah, Evan.
• 6:21
  It came out when I was in my.
• 6:25
  My.
• 6:26
  My.
• 6:26
  In my wannabe acidophile phase, so.
• 6:31
  So I was.
• 6:32
  I was watching everything like you said, those early 2000s had Harry Potter, it had this.
• 6:42
  It had Star wars, it had Matrix.
• 6:46
  And I was just watching this with all my friends and stuff like that.
• 6:50
  And.
• 6:52
  And I remember just being.
• 6:54
  The heebies were GB bro.
• 6:56
  Like, what is this film?
• 6:58
  And.
• 6:59
  And.
• 6:59
  And I walked out of it.
• 7:01
  Like, I don't think I should have watched that.
• 7:05
  But.
• 7:06
  Yeah, so it's intense.
• 7:07
  Yeah.
• 7:08
  So it was cool to see it on the list because I haven't.
• 7:12
  I think.
• 7:13
  I haven't thought about this movie for probably.
• 7:16
  Probably about 10 years.
• 7:17
  So it's like a.
• 7:19
  It's like a whole friend.
• 7:22
  So that's kind of how we were introduced to the movie as well.
• 7:25
  I finally actually watched the film after high school.
• 7:30
  One of those, okay, I'm tired of being scared of these things.
• 7:33
  I'm gonna watch them.
• 7:35
  And I remember this was one of conquering one of my ultimate fears, because I'd have.
• 7:38
  I still have flashbacks to this day, and I feel the cringe and the fear of being in that theater going, I'm not supposed to be here.
• 7:43
  I'm scared.
• 7:47
  And obviously, now I look back, it's not as scary as it was.
• 7:49
  But you know what?
• 7:49
  It still means a lot to me as a result of what happened unintentionally there.
• 7:54
  So as we're going through this whole thing, we always like to discuss what we love, what we don't love about the movie.
• 7:59
  Let's take it away.
• 8:00
  Who wants to go first?
• 8:02
  Like I said, I haven't seen it for a while, but what I.
• 8:08
  What I liked was just.
• 8:12
  It felt fresh.
• 8:13
  And the idea was kind of weak if you really think about it.
• 8:21
  But it works.
• 8:23
  Like, they make it work.
• 8:25
  And they give a little bit of some explanation to the technical side of it, but they emphasize more the philosophical and the ethical repercussions.
• 8:43
  So I dig that.
• 8:46
  But I remember thinking that at least, like, I remember thinking that this.
• 8:56
  Because I didn't see Scream yet.
• 8:59
  But when.
• 9:01
  When.
• 9:02
  When I saw this, I was like, this is probably what Scream is like, but with an actual plot or.
• 9:10
  Or.
• 9:11
  Or with Actually some kind of thought behind it because I was a snob and I didn't think horror movies were films.
• 9:21
  You know, it's like I kind of look down on it, but, but I'm.
• 9:27
  So much better than this.
• 9:27
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, you.
• 9:32
  Them.
• 9:32
  All right.
• 9:34
  So, so, and from the clips and the trailers I watched, just to jog my memory for this.
• 9:43
  Yeah, I still kind of sticks around.
• 9:46
  Like, they layered, they, they have that deep layer with a superficial slasher film which, which, which, which it still worked.
• 9:58
  So I don't blame it for it.
• 10:00
  John.
• 10:01
  So what I loved about it was it felt investigative.
• 10:04
  I felt like you were rewarded as a watcher because they, because the video that plays has just a bunch of like, jumbled imagery and the main character actually does some investigative work to figure out what the images were,
• 10:20
  the backstory of the, the monster, the, the, you know, the spirit.
• 10:25
  And they, And I feel like you do get rewarded as a watcher because you actually learn a little bit about the backstory.
• 10:31
  And there's some really cool, like, visual things, like with the fly coming off of the, the video screen thing.
• 10:38
  And I was like, that was a lot as a kid when they were like, oh, look, you can expand, there's more video here.
• 10:44
  And then like a fly and it comes off.
• 10:47
  But, and, and it was, it was generally genuinely unsettling at some parts.
• 10:52
  But when you start to learn more, the backstory of why Samara was haunting them in the first place and the screwed up stuff that happened to her in the well and all that, you're like, oh, like, it wasn't
• 11:02
  just like it wasn't like a monster movie or, you know, it didn't feel run of the mill.
• 11:07
  It felt like there was some genuine inspiration to it.
• 11:10
  Yeah.
• 11:10
  Thinking of this as a detective movie is a good way of putting it in the works, John.
• 11:14
  This is obviously with an investigative journalist it's different, but like, through that lens of like, there's, there's a mystery here.
• 11:19
  What do I, what do I do?
• 11:20
  And there's that extra depth of.
• 11:22
  Not only am I on a timer because I only have seven days to live, but now my child has watched this.
• 11:28
  Can I stop this before I die?
• 11:30
  And before they die.
• 11:32
  That's a great one.
• 11:33
  I love that part of this film because it raises the stakes immensely.
• 11:37
  It's like, no, we only have seven days to get this done.
• 11:40
  I better get my butt in gear and prove that I'm the journalist that everyone thinks I am to figure this job out.
• 11:48
  And it does really well with that in hindsight, now that I have watched every other film before this, I think it's really weak with the reveal and especially with how they handle Samara as opposed to Sadako, who would
• 12:01
  be the Japanese version.
• 12:03
  I forget there's a Korean one too.
• 12:05
  I forget her name.
• 12:06
  I forgot to write it down.
• 12:09
  And like how they handle her character there versus here.
• 12:11
  Like this one.
• 12:12
  She is a monster through and through.
• 12:14
  Like it is heavily implied.
• 12:16
  There may have been a deal with the devil made at some point in time to create her.
• 12:20
  Because suddenly she shows up with a family who had never had children before.
• 12:24
  Everything had been miscarriages like before then.
• 12:29
  And that's.
• 12:29
  If you believe that it is indicated as parts of the film.
• 12:32
  There's other ways to interpret it.
• 12:33
  Could you be there to adopt it?
• 12:35
  Some get.
• 12:36
  So I'm not as big on that comparatively speaking.
• 12:38
  The horse stuff, in hindsight, you can look at it go, oh my gosh, that is.
• 12:42
  That is bad.
• 12:44
  How they like, oh no, she.
• 12:45
  The horses are scared of her, so they jump.
• 12:48
  Jump off a boat into the water.
• 12:52
  It makes sense in context of what the film is doing.
• 12:55
  It's also super boozy.
• 12:59
  Also her kid, creepy kid.
• 13:02
  I don't know.
• 13:02
  He may be the next one.
• 13:05
  We don't advocate the.
• 13:06
  The hurt.
• 13:07
  The hurting or death of children here, but might make exceptions.
• 13:10
  Apparently he.
• 13:11
  I grew up to be a.
• 13:13
  Some kind of a lawyer for some.
• 13:17
  For some part of our government right now.
• 13:23
  All right, so can you help me briefly give a synopsis of the film?
• 13:28
  Like if someone had never watched the Ring and wanted to know, what is this about?
• 13:31
  What's going on?
• 13:32
  And they waited 14 minutes into the show for a synopsis.
• 13:36
  How would you do that?
• 13:37
  Basically, there is a cursed videotape.
• 13:40
  If you watch it, it has a bunch of random images of some creepy girl with black hair that is draped over her face.
• 13:47
  You can't really see who she is.
• 13:49
  There's a.
• 13:50
  Well, there's some other random stuff.
• 13:52
  And if you watch the tape, your phone will ring, it'll say seven days, which means you have a seven day timeline until you're dead.
• 13:58
  And basically the film is exploring who that person is, why they're doing what they're doing, trying to figure out why the vengeful spirit exists.
• 14:08
  And by the end of the film, you realize that you really can't help her.
• 14:11
  The only thing you can do is make a copy of the videotape because that's the only way you can save yourself.
• 14:17
  Because the vengeful spirit just wants to keep vengeing and you got to make a copy of the tape or you won't be spared.
• 14:24
  You might need to explain what a tape is.
• 14:31
  You do have younger audiences who may have never seen what a VHS is before.
• 14:35
  This is what we used to do back in the day.
• 14:37
  Instead of DVDs and Blu Rays, there were these magical things called VHS that you.
• 14:41
  That worked like DVDs.
• 14:43
  You know, we would etch it onto stone tablets and spin it around really fast.
• 14:49
  Give it to the past.
• 14:50
  It's funny now because there's a whole.
• 14:52
  There's a whole retro genre now of this kind of horror stuff.
• 14:58
  This a vintage horror or analog hook.
• 15:02
  Horror is what the kids are calling it nowadays.
• 15:06
  And, And I find it fascinating because the kids nowadays doing it on.
• 15:13
  On online, they replicate it so well.
• 15:18
  And this is where this basically came from.
• 15:22
  The like, the like creepy cutscenes and the.
• 15:26
  And the fingers in the box and stuff like that.
• 15:32
  And yeah, it's very much.
• 15:35
  It started something and it became something much bigger.
• 15:40
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:41
  So moving into the film proper, one of the major themes in every version is the idea of what is the price of revenge.
• 15:50
  And especially for Sadako in the Japanese and Samara in the English version.
• 15:55
  Comparatively speaking, the English doesn't focus on it too much in the same way it does in a Japanese.
• 16:00
  They're two different, like, things trying to solve a different problem.
• 16:04
  So, like, focusing on the American one first.
• 16:06
  What is the price of Samara seeking revenge?
• 16:09
  The.
• 16:10
  It's the.
• 16:12
  It's the people on the other side of that videotape, right?
• 16:16
  The,.
• 16:18
  The.
• 16:19
  The way she transfers it to the tape, which I think there's a term for it or something like that of.
• 16:27
  Projecting images through psychokinesis, through being clairvoyant and all that mess, to imprint on the videotape so she can get revenge by killing more people because she herself was an unwanted child.
• 16:41
  Even though she was wanted, she became an unwanted child because she kept giving all these, like, visions and prophecies and the like of things people didn't want to see, and they're so much happier with her gone.
• 16:51
  So.
• 16:51
  Well, fine then, if you're going to murder me for this, which is what happens with, you know, her adopted or maybe legitimate parents, depending on how you interpret the film, then I'm just keep going and going.
• 17:02
  This is what people are all about.
• 17:03
  And that's the American side of things.
• 17:04
  John, anything you want to add?
• 17:07
  No, I.
• 17:08
  I think that about covers it.
• 17:11
  So.
• 17:11
  So we're kind of combining things here because we're Going to have to compare and contrast at one point in ringu or ring, if you want to be really, you know, like actually ring instead of ringu.
• 17:21
  Whatever snobby about it.
• 17:23
  There is.
• 17:24
  There are several concepts that are brought up that are actually also featured to an extent in Juwan the Grudge, which also received a remake, an American remake around the same time, actually, I think maybe two years after this
• 17:37
  one, if I remember correctly.
• 17:39
  So there's.
• 17:39
  And by the way, I don't spreken z ni hongo.
• 17:42
  So if I screw up anything of the Japanese here, sorry, what I could.
• 17:48
  I definitely mean it offensively.
• 17:50
  That's who I am as a person.
• 17:52
  I want to offend everyone I meet, especially people of other cultures.
• 17:58
  So we start off with this basis for.
• 18:00
  Actually, for Sadako, her story is very different.
• 18:03
  We'll get in the difference in the film too.
• 18:06
  She is someone who has suffered an attack, as in, like, been assaulted by a man.
• 18:11
  Her father has done very untoward things to her as well.
• 18:14
  She kind of ends up as kind of a misandrist, but at the same time, more misanthropic would be the better term because, like, she doesn't like women that much either.
• 18:23
  She'll kill them just as easily because she suffered.
• 18:25
  So the idea is she holds this grudge, and that is one of the literal words they use to describe it in the Japanese.
• 18:31
  It comes from.
• 18:33
  There's three terms I'm going to use here.
• 18:34
  There's the urami Uramu.
• 18:36
  Urami is the noun which is what she actually does and what is actually used in the script.
• 18:41
  The Uramu would be like, you know, the action of doing it.
• 18:45
  Then we get onin, which is kind of a lingering grudge also used in the script, from what I could tell.
• 18:50
  And this is more the idea.
• 18:51
  It has supernatural links of like imagining some type of.
• 18:54
  Like yokai or yure or spirit of some sort of who is holding on.
• 18:59
  And that's one of the things that empowers them.
• 19:00
  Then we get to the Ju on, which of course was where the Juan the Grudge gets its title from.
• 19:05
  This is known as.
• 19:07
  When you transliterate some stuff into, you know, English, it becomes like the resentment, curse, Jew meaning curse, or spell on meaning grudge, malice, resentment.
• 19:16
  And that is precisely how Samara.
• 19:20
  Well, Samara to an extent too.
• 19:22
  But Sadako views her life well.
• 19:26
  Unlife goal now is like, I suffered, therefore everyone else has to suffer.
• 19:30
  And even putting my body away, which is what they do in every film here is like, give her a proper Barrier, which, like in any other story would be a good thing of like, hey, I'm showing respect to
• 19:39
  the dead.
• 19:40
  We've helped solve your murder.
• 19:41
  But like, no, her revenge instinct, her grudge is that huge that even when you do something nice, it doesn't matter because you're just part of the problem too.
• 19:49
  So she has become that vengeful spirit in death and it doesn't matter who she has to attack.
• 19:54
  That.
• 19:55
  That's.
• 19:55
  That's fascinating because.
• 19:57
  Which, yeah, I never went that deep with this film.
• 20:01
  So it's so cool to see that there's those layers here.
• 20:06
  So that's pretty cool.
• 20:08
  So much passion from Christian Ashley.
• 20:10
  There's a lot of movement there.
• 20:11
  All you got to do is make me hyper fixate on something.
• 20:13
  I become the world's expert for a day.
• 20:15
  I'll forget this probably tomorrow.
• 20:17
  Right now.
• 20:18
  I know it's so one of the big things that are brought up is whenever you have a debate about this, which film is better?
• 20:27
  We'll answer that question in a bit for those who've seen each.
• 20:29
  But like, how do we handle significant changes in adaptations?
• 20:32
  Because this isn't just a Japanese movie.
• 20:35
  It was based on a Japanese book by Koji Suzuki, who is several sequels to this where, let's just say things get wild.
• 20:45
  We go from horror to sci fi, and there's a lot of retconning done there that I don't really much care for.
• 20:51
  But he made his money, so I guess he got his especially.
• 20:55
  He got my money.
• 20:56
  So we have.
• 20:57
  Of course, there are actually more films than you think about this.
• 21:01
  As far as adaptations of this versus sequels.
• 21:04
  There are plenty of sequels out there.
• 21:06
  Of course, there's also a crossover between the Ring and the Grudge.
• 21:09
  I think it's called Sadako Versus Pictures Kayoko Kayoko, who is of course the vengeful spirit in the Grudge.
• 21:19
  But before we get the Japanese theater release in 1998, there is a made for TV movie, 1995.
• 21:27
  And I want to caution everyone here because I was unaware that there were several nude scenes in this film.
• 21:33
  And I was in a spot where if people had been looking at what I was doing, it would have been very, very bad.
• 21:39
  So I went in completely blind.
• 21:41
  So if that's something you're a little sensitive about, you've got younger viewers like, yeah, let's go watch the original.
• 21:46
  Original, maybe wait, they're a little older.
• 21:50
  Then of course you have the 1998 film.
• 21:52
  Then you get the 1999 Korean film, which only exists because they couldn't import the 1998 film in Korea because if you know your history, Korea and Japan have a very complicated history from, like, the IM Gen war on,
• 22:09
  occupation of Korea later on in the 1900s.
• 22:13
  It's this friction to this day, shall we say, some.
• 22:17
  Some of it very, very earned.
• 22:19
  And so they remade the film instead of importing the film in there.
• 22:22
  And it was actually pretty good.
• 22:23
  So before we go any further, how we feel about making significant changes in adaptation.
• 22:27
  It's about to happen.
• 22:28
  Sorry.
• 22:28
  Yeah.
• 22:29
  Yeah.
• 22:29
  Well, I mean, I was gonna say if.
• 22:33
  I think I was gonna say what Evan just said, which was bound to happen, because depending on the.
• 22:37
  The audience, the director's personal choices and interpretation of the story or how loose it is thereof, you know, there's bound to be differences.
• 22:47
  And also, depending on whatever the studio wants because they got to make their money, they want to change it up to dumb it down or water it down because they don't think the American audiences will pay money to
• 22:58
  see something that's actually scary.
• 23:01
  How do I feel about, like, the.
• 23:04
  The, like, the specifics, the specific changes,.
• 23:09
  Like, just in general, like, if something has really changed from, like, you have a book, you have a comic book or whatever, and the movie is something completely different.
• 23:16
  I used to be hung up about that stuff, but I've learned to just take it as it is and it's okay to just.
• 23:28
  To take what you're given and.
• 23:32
  And to not to.
• 23:35
  Not to nitpick too much and.
• 23:38
  Yeah, just take it case by case.
• 23:42
  It's like, yeah, it doesn't bother me that much when this kind of stuff happens, but I'm still gonna judge the change and see if I.
• 23:56
  If I like it or not.
• 23:58
  But, yeah, no, I.
• 24:02
  I don't mind it because there's no way to literally transfer a book to a film or.
• 24:12
  Or a short story to a film.
• 24:14
  It's.
• 24:15
  There's.
• 24:15
  There's.
• 24:16
  There's gonna be a translation and an adaptation involved.
• 24:22
  So, yeah, my answer is yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 24:26
  Cowboy's Way Out.
• 24:27
  No, it depends.
• 24:29
  Like, what.
• 24:29
  What is the change being made?
• 24:31
  Is it done to further the story?
• 24:33
  Is it done to appeal to a wider audience?
• 24:35
  And it's a good reason.
• 24:36
  I can deal with that to an extent.
• 24:38
  If it's done for the sake of fake diversity.
• 24:41
  No, we're going to have issues here that you don't care about the characters involved.
• 24:44
  You just want people to say, hey, look at us.
• 24:46
  We're so great because we did this.
• 24:48
  Like, I have huge issues with that.
• 24:50
  This one Removes several things in the different adaptations.
• 24:53
  The closest one actually would actually be the 95 made for TV and aspects of 99 Korean film.
• 25:01
  So one of the major changes that are made, I hinted at it earlier, is that Sadako suffers from an assault.
• 25:09
  She's viewed as very beautiful by a lot of people who put their values upon her and saying she's like the perfect woman and everything.
• 25:16
  And it removes a lot of in their minds, removes agency not from the character but and who they look at her as.
• 25:23
  And One character is Dr.
• 25:25
  Jotaro.
• 25:26
  I think it's might be Jotaro Nagao.
• 25:29
  Japanese name switching kind of messes with me sometimes.
• 25:31
  Or Nagao Jotaro.
• 25:33
  I'm more familiar with the Jojo's part of things.
• 25:34
  So I want to use Jotaro's domain name.
• 25:37
  He is an absolute sleazebag who assaults her.
• 25:41
  And one of the reasons that he ends up actually being the one to kill her, which you won't find in the other adaptations is outside of 95 he finds out that she is intersex and he is horrified by
• 25:53
  that.
• 25:54
  And that's one of his main motivations.
• 25:56
  I, you know, fell in love with you and you're this kind of freak in his mind.
• 25:59
  So I'm going to kill you.
• 26:00
  That's when he puts her in the well and everything.
• 26:03
  That would become the basis of the ring.
• 26:06
  Then of course, moving on from there, we have the gender swap of the main character.
• 26:10
  The main character in the novel is a man and every adaptation it's a female.
• 26:14
  It's a woman.
• 26:15
  Sorry, same thing.
• 26:17
  And that change was made by Japanese executives because they thought it would be more appealing to the audience if they saw a woman looking after their child.
• 26:27
  Who by the way, daughter versus son, which is an American from Japanese difference.
• 26:33
  Getting Sadako Samara's origins kind of did that.
• 26:36
  Yeah, just touched on that.
• 26:37
  So, any thoughts before we move on?
• 26:38
  So did the 95 film have a.
• 26:42
  So the Samara was a dude is what you're saying?
• 26:44
  No, no.
• 26:45
  Samara was intersex.
• 26:47
  Definitely more female than male as things go on.
• 26:50
  Non gendered but definitely very obvious.
• 26:54
  Were you to have done what the doctor did.
• 26:56
  But the 95 film doesn't bring that up.
• 26:57
  The only films that do.
• 26:59
  Excuse me, the only ones that does are the original novel and the Korean film.
• 27:04
  No, it.
• 27:05
  It is a interesting pivot they.
• 27:10
  They take because that changes the.
• 27:13
  The perspective and what you want the audience to feel like you.
• 27:20
  You said to change it to a mother is it brings a whole different kind of baggage to It.
• 27:27
  Yes.
• 27:27
  Yeah.
• 27:28
  Compared to a dad looking out for a son or daughter or something like that.
• 27:32
  Yeah, it does.
• 27:33
  I understand the change.
• 27:34
  It's not my favorite thing in the world.
• 27:35
  But I think the actresses nail it in every version that I've seen.
• 27:40
  So I can't fault them for a job well done because someone else changed it.
• 27:44
  So as revealed earlier, one of the huge things about the film that's like in pop culture at the time was like the whole Seven Days thing and like, oh.
• 27:53
  But the only way for me to survive is if I pass this curse and transfer it on to someone else.
• 27:57
  So, gentlemen, what are the ethics of transferring a curse to other people?
• 28:01
  Ethics are.
• 28:04
  There's.
• 28:05
  There's no good way to go about this.
• 28:08
  But one thing I found kind of fascinating that.
• 28:13
  That I just picked up on, it's like, it's a parallel that the fact that the only way to transfer this to someone else to save your life is to transfer to someone else and they would have to suffer.
• 28:34
  So you are degrading your.
• 28:37
  You are degrading your morals by passing it on and by copying the tape.
• 28:45
  And the tape is literally degrading every time you do that too.
• 28:50
  I thought that was pretty cool.
• 28:52
  I thought that was a pretty cool.
• 28:53
  A pretty cool little parallel.
• 28:55
  Yes.
• 28:56
  John.
• 28:56
  You making tapes to save your children,.
• 28:59
  It sucks, but it's like better them than me kind of a thing.
• 29:02
  But it's a.
• 29:03
  What.
• 29:04
  What else are you gonna do?
• 29:05
  I'm just.
• 29:06
  It's not like you.
• 29:08
  Unless it's the only tape that exists and Samara dies.
• 29:12
  If you die with her, then there's no big hero ending where you stop the.
• 29:18
  The curse.
• 29:19
  So it's kind of.
• 29:21
  Unless you call Sam and Dean Winchester and you're kind of stuck on your choices there.
• 29:25
  Yeah.
• 29:26
  All right, so Evan is pro life.
• 29:29
  John is pro death.
• 29:30
  Even though life in this instance would be dying.
• 29:33
  Self sacrifice would be a better way of putting that.
• 29:35
  I am pro self sacrifice because I couldn't imagine ever putting this curse on someone else.
• 29:40
  And like, there is nothing in my heart that says I deserve to live more than the person I would put this on.
• 29:47
  There would have to be like, very good reasons.
• 29:49
  Like someone have to come back from the future and say, you doing this means that bad things would happen.
• 29:55
  And even then I'd be very skeptical about that because I do believe in that self sacrifice.
• 29:59
  It's like, okay, so me dying right here and now prevents other people from being infected.
• 30:04
  All right, seven days it is.
• 30:06
  No one else is going to see this Thing I salt it and burn it and do everything I can to stop it.
• 30:13
  Well, I buried you.
• 30:14
  And you're angry at me because you become that misanthropic, sorry, your curse dies with me.
• 30:20
  It's not like, yeah, I'm so happy to die or anything like that, but when I think of the greater moral standing here, would I rather be the person who lets this continue?
• 30:28
  No.
• 30:28
  So I'd rather be the person who died to potentially stop it.
• 30:31
  For all I know, it would stop it.
• 30:32
  But I don't.
• 30:33
  But I'd rather make that sacrifice play.
• 30:35
  What.
• 30:36
  What comes to mind?
• 30:38
  Because the time of recording, they show lanterns on hbo.
• 30:47
  Max is out.
• 30:48
  And I can see the two different versions playing out.
• 30:53
  If to Jon Stewart has the option or how Jordan does, how would be.
• 31:01
  He's got no fear, right?
• 31:02
  Because he doesn't have any family.
• 31:05
  So he just like, yeah, sure, fine.
• 31:08
  I would do the self sacrifice and John would probably be like, oh, hold on.
• 31:14
  And just an interesting little exercise.
• 31:20
  Well, I'm glad you brought that up because I almost used it as an example earlier, like, changing the source material.
• 31:24
  And that show has definitely changed a lot of the source material.
• 31:28
  Parts of it I like, parts of it I really hate, and ultimately I'm enjoying it.
• 31:31
  But it's also one of those, why did you do this?
• 31:34
  But we can talk about that on our lanterns episode later on.
• 31:36
  On.
• 31:37
  I'm sure there'll be at least.
• 31:38
  Right on.
• 31:39
  Right on.
• 31:39
  You know, eight of us trying to fight for the rights to be on that one.
• 31:42
  So as we do start wrapping up things today, I did want to also point out, like, this is one of the things that inspired a lot of other stuff.
• 31:49
  This idea of transferring occurs.
• 31:51
  Obviously it's happened way before.
• 31:53
  It is like, I think this is One of the 1001 tales, Arabian Nights, something like that.
• 31:58
  There was a story similar to this.
• 31:59
  I'd have to look it up again.
• 32:00
  But, like, as far as modern culture.
• 32:01
  Goes, Twilight Zone had something like it.
• 32:05
  Like a transferring thing.
• 32:06
  That sounds right.
• 32:07
  I forgot what it was.
• 32:08
  But yeah, what came to mind was the 2009 film the Box.
• 32:16
  The Richard Matheson story.
• 32:17
  Yes.
• 32:17
  They did a Twilight Zone on that one.
• 32:19
  Yeah, I think it was a dating show.
• 32:22
  I can't remember which one.
• 32:23
  Yeah, dude, press the button.
• 32:24
  Knowing someone dies and you get all this reward, like a huge moral issue there.
• 32:30
  More recently, we have stuff like Smile with the smile demon there.
• 32:33
  It's like, you know, if you kill yourself in front of another person, you remove the curse from yourself.
• 32:37
  But it Transfers to them.
• 32:38
  And of course, we have.
• 32:39
  It follows with the literal std, right?
• 32:43
  Demon std.
• 32:44
  It's like, passes from person to person.
• 32:46
  So does it mean.
• 32:47
  Does it die with me?
• 32:48
  Well, then they would go to the person after me who infected me.
• 32:51
  Well, sorry, buddy, it's got to end at some point.
• 32:54
  Or do you take the choice of, well, I'm going to give it to someone else and they pass it on to someone else so that I get to live?
• 32:59
  Then we have Incantation, which is a Taiwanese film, which is fantastic.
• 33:03
  Sorry.
• 33:03
  Spoilers, by the way, for one of the big reveals.
• 33:06
  It's found footage, and part of this is getting you the audience to spread the curse wider.
• 33:11
  So its effectiveness is kind of broken then into Witcher 3.
• 33:15
  There's a great side quest in the DLC for Toussaint where you can put a woman who's been cursed to turn into a bird onto the guy who's in love with her so that, like, they're both going to die
• 33:28
  a little sooner than possible.
• 33:30
  That's an idea that's brought up there.
• 33:32
  There's the classic creepypasta smile, dog.
• 33:35
  Spread the word.
• 33:37
  But the idea is, well, I'm going to keep suffering unless I spread this.
• 33:40
  So there's definitely some ring influence there and less so.
• 33:43
  But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:46
  Is SCP571 that's secure, contain, protect, SCP foundation.
• 33:51
  This one isn't as close as the others, but it's more like the idea of I keep writing this stuff down and people get more infected like zombies than they do.
• 33:58
  Like, I have to bring this to someone else.
• 34:00
  It's more like a compulsion versus I'm making an ethical decision here.
• 34:05
  Like backrooms and stuff like that.
• 34:07
  Backrooms is different than scp, but both Internet originals.
• 34:11
  Speaking of ev, I need to do a backrooms episode at some point.
• 34:13
  I know it was what news and all, but, you know, there's more.
• 34:17
  I just rewatched it and it's.
• 34:18
  It's fantastic.
• 34:19
  All right, so, gentlemen, out of 10, what are we rating?
• 34:21
  The Ring.
• 34:23
  It was my first and one of the only horror movies I've ever watched through completion, so I got to give it a solid eight because it's kind of a classic in my mind.
• 34:32
  And it is vintage now, and it talks about, you know, VHS tapes and Fatback tv, so it brings me back to a time of, you know, yesteryear.
• 34:39
  Yeah, how.
• 34:41
  How would you do it today?
• 34:43
  Like transfer, Not a thief.
• 34:47
  And dvd.
• 34:49
  My son doesn't know what.
• 34:50
  What DVD is a smartphone us like video Dropbox file maybe, I don't know.
• 35:04
  But link, click the super hidden link and you'll find.
• 35:07
  Oh yes, something like that.
• 35:09
  It'll be an unskippable highlight to read or something.
• 35:15
  Yes, a playable, playable ad.
• 35:19
  Yeah.
• 35:20
  Samaras of Capitalism.
• 35:25
  So yeah, similar to you, John, this was a formidable horror film for me because I watched it in a time where I really didn't and I couldn't because I had the whole baggage of it all.
• 35:43
  So I would give it probably seven out of ten wells.
• 35:48
  Okay.
• 35:49
  Yeah, I'm also a seven out of ten.
• 35:51
  Like this is a great film, it's fun film.
• 35:53
  It's very formative film that helped spread J Horror across to America to know that hey, other people are making films too and they're pretty good.
• 36:01
  And I will say comparatively speaking, Ringu is superior.
• 36:05
  And that brings us to our next question of which version is the superior version.
• 36:10
  John, you haven't watched Ringu.
• 36:13
  Superior.
• 36:14
  There you go.
• 36:15
  Ah, okay.
• 36:17
  I.
• 36:18
  I don't know.
• 36:19
  I've got no a dog like in this fight because I, I've only seen the 2002 decor Verbinski pre Pirates of the Caribbean version.
• 36:30
  So.
• 36:32
  As pivot is the word of the night.
• 36:34
  What as you said earlier before recording, what a pivot to go from this to Pirates of the Caribbean, right?
• 36:39
  Man, I wish that was on my resume.
• 36:44
  Guys, thank you for everything.
• 36:46
  So guys, thank you for everything that you do.
• 36:48
  Please get a chance to get a five star review and your podcasting platform of choice.
• 36:51
  Help us with raining there.
• 36:51
  Just find more people.
• 36:53
  If you want to go with the other parts of this series or even previous drive in series, you can go in the link down below.
• 36:58
  You can also head to our our YouTube page our discord if you want to join there fourth wall too.
• 37:04
  You want to support us financially.
• 37:06
  You can also send future episode topics to our.
• 37:09
  I'd like to shout out some supporters real quick.
• 37:11
  Thank you very much to Aaron Hardy, Daniel Sigmund Drip Fuller and James Barrett.
• 37:14
  Remember, we are all the chosen people.
• 37:16
  A geekdom of Greece.