Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.14 | Meaningful Marketing: How to Tell Stories That Sell with Deirdre Tshien

Transcript

Ep.14 | Meaningful Marketing: How to Tell Stories That Sell with Deirdre Tshien · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the Curiously Guided Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: We're your hosts, Mariah and Che, two intuitive business strategists exploring the intersection of entrepreneurship, spirituality, and the subconscious mind.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: If you're interested in exploring and learning how to integrate strategy with energetics to help you grow a profitable business in a way that actually feels good, then you're in the right place.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: Before we get into today's amazing episode with Deidri Shin, we just want to let you guys in on something fun.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: We're hosting next week, January 26, 2022.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: If you're listening live, Mariah and I have been um working on our brainchild of a workshop for y'all.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's called the Plan a Better Year Workshop.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: The goal is really to help you reframe goals in your life and how we've all kind of learned about goals.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: And basically, it's our approach to planning for the year that is different than probably what you've done before.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Ryan, I have been growing increasingly frustrated with goal setting.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: In fact, we recorded a whole episode about it, which you should absolutely check out.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_03: But we have put together a workshop that we're calling a better way to plan.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, after COVID, we're really working in like a whole different world.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_03: Everything is uncertain, everything is constantly changing.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: I am starting to think it's really silly to set these quote unquote smart goals that are so outcome-oriented.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think there's a better way to do it.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of times we get hung up on those really specific goals and it causes us to not notice the good stuff that's going on.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: So basically, we are coming up with a new way to plan.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: We have it at the end of January.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, you've had time to make the resolutions, you're trying to implement, maybe you're still feeling a little lost.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: That is what this is for.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: If you have kind of done it all, you've set all the resolutions, you've made all the goals, you've kind of done this over and over, and you're looking for a new way, we are as well.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: And we've put together something that we think is pretty cool, and we hope you'll join us for it.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, oh my God, I literally am so excited for this workshop.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hilarious because hosting a live workshop was like always something that I've wanted to do, but there was like a lot of fear and resistance around it.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but after working through like some subconscious things, you know, on my own level, and then having Shay being there with me and like help like both of us combining our brains in order to create this workshop based on everything we didn't like about planning.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, like this is not your typical planning workshop.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: You weren't like, we're not gonna have you break down your income goals into quarters and like whatever.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Totally not our thing, but we've broken it down into three sections.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, section one, where you're going, which is gonna include a super amazing like meditation.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Number two, it's gonna be where's your focus.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we have a really fun activity there.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then the third section is how to get there, because it's like we can plan out where we're going and what are what we're focusing on.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_01: But if we don't have an attainable and fun and intentional way to get there, we're gonna start shaming ourselves for yet again not hitting our goals.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, if this is piquing your interest in literally in the least bit, definitely click the link to the workshop in our show notes to go over and get your ticket.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the workshop is Wednesday, January 26th, and it's gonna be running from 7 p.m.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Eastern time to 9 p.m.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: So it's gonna be a two-hour workshop and included in your ticket, you get the copy of a recording.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna get a digital workbook, and we're like doing that right now, and we're so excited for you guys to get this in your hands.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's so super cute.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, we're like staring at it for days on end.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, the ticket for this is pre-sale is gonna be$37.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So from now until January 3rd, you can get access to this super fun two-hour workshop about planning a better year for$37.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, honestly, I think it's a fucking steal.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it we tried to make it an easy yes.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we are super excited about it.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: We want to share it with the world.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: So if you are available and there'll be a recording sent out.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: So even if you can't join us live, you know, um, but you're still kind of picking up what we're putting down, please uh check out the link in the show notes and you'll get all the information you need.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: And we are so looking forward to uh seeing you there.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now let's jump in to the episode that we have for you guys today.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: So this is all about meaningful marketing, how to tell stories that sell.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so our girl Deidri came on the show and like I didn't know her backstory.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, how would I know her backstory?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: But she came on the show and like the beginning of the episode, she takes us on a journey of like how she got into entrepreneurship and like all of these business adventures that she's been on.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And like, as I'm listening to it, I'm just so inspired and motivated to like work on my own shit because she's done so many cool things in all different kinds of industries.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because like when I think about the podcast and the fact that it's called Curiously Guided, she's like one of the most like physical representations of that.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, as you listen to this episode, you're gonna be able to pick up that she literally just follows her gut, she listens to the intuitive hits, she explores things, she stays curious.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's just her story is absolutely amazing.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we get into like more of like the action part of it, more of like the juice, more of like the how to tell stories that sell.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Her perspective gave me so many aha moments.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Diving into like the difference between selling e-commerce, like products and services.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: She goes into like how how people actually buy, especially online.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And the like the biggest aha moment was when she kind of dove in and explained how to figure out what story to actually tell.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, go farther with that.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: Tell them you specifically, you know, I really liked your takeaway of um, I think we all have heard this advice.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: You need to tell a story.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: What's your story?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's all about your story.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: And Mariah kind of noted like it almost makes the idea of your story this big, amorphous, unattainable thing.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: And her and I both have really struggled.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, yeah, we know the importance of story, but like where to start?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I've got a big story, and and what are the interesting parts that I should share?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: And so Deidri's whole thing is how can we kind of take this and break it down into little pieces?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: What are all these micro stories?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: And Mariah, you've actually been talking more and more about that too, like micro shifts and what are the smallest little bite-sized pieces that you can take out from your big story?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: And she's put together this really cool tool that's called Cap Show, which we'll talk about.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: I really feel like it was made for me.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: I struggle with this.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I've got tons of photos to post on Instagram, but when it comes to writing a caption, I have this like mental block that comes up and it takes me way too long to write captions.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: I overthink it and I don't know if what I'm sharing is relevant.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so this cap show software, it's super cool.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like a combination of mad libs and journal prompts, and it really helps guide you through.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it you kind of answer in some things, fill in the blanks, you select emotions.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's all really emotional based.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: And like Mariah said, we talk about this episode, we get into sales psychology a bit, and really sales happens on an emotional level.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: So this software is super cool because you like fill in the blanks, you select some emotions, and then AI comes in and puts it together for you in Instagram captions and emails.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: And Mariah and I did a couple samples together.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: We were really blown away at how much like me it sounded like.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I, full disclosure, as soon as we had this interview, like stalked Deedri, uh, I joined her workshop.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: She's hosting like this live workshop this week, all about how to scale your funnel and really get the most out of your marketing.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I, she's a genius.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: I am learning so much from it and from her.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, I am just so grateful that we got to have this conversation with her because, like Mariah said, it it was super inspiring.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: What I took away from it was all of us with this entrepreneurial bug, you know, we have a long track record and it's going to include some quote unquote failures, right?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: And Deidri goes through some of her, she had ideas that they killed and they were, you know, what we would call a fail, but really that idea she always used as like a stepping stone to the next one, which has really gotten to her.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: She she needed all the fails to get to where she is now.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: So we talk about this idea of like life and your business.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's all an experiment.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: And when things are quote unquote not bad or not going well, it's just another data point, you know, and you have to have learned that to get to the next step.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I just was so inspired by her and her being so open about her journey and the struggles and now the triumphs.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's a super cool story.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And and then her, she's obviously a genius when it comes to this like kind of mark meaningful marketing psychology.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny, like I just got in my head, like she's a double G.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: So like she's a genius when it comes to like sales psychology.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, me and Shay just being obsessed with human design.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm listening to her story, trying to pinpoint exactly like what her type was.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, I am not a pro in human design.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I mistyped her.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: She in the whole episode, I'm like, you're a manifesting generator, manifesting generator.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it turns out after the podcast, she went and looked up her type, and she's actually a generator, which is the same type that I'm at.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, I feel like I just look at her story and it's so inspiring to me that, like, yes, you can feel lit up consistently.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I mean, I could talk about this shit for literally ever.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: But let me just uh go into Deidri's bio real quick, and then we'll just dive into the juicy stuff.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, Deidri is the founder and CEO of Cap Show, a software that helps entrepreneurs turn their stories into a bank of captions and emails.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: She is also the creator of Viralosity Marketing, author of the traffic formula, and host of the remarkable remarkable, apparently that's a hard word for me today, entrepreneur and the she's gonna make me say it again, and the remarkable entrepreneurs playbook podcast.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So as you can see, she literally is a genius in so many things.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's get you guys into today's episode.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love if we could just start out by hearing a bit about how you got into the online business world.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think just from stalking you, uh your story seems pretty interesting and really diverse, you know.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: So can you kind of take us back to the beginning?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: How did you, what was your first doorway into this world?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, where do I start?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I okay, into the entrepreneurship world, I actually started in hospitality, which is insane.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: I would not recommend that be people's starting point, to be honest, um, because uh the like the upfront cost uh to start a hospitality retail business is insane.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for us, we had no idea.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't even come from a hospitality background.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, by way of a little bit of background, I studied a law degree and went into banking, right?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: So full corporate, full, you know, I I mean I did disappoint my parents because they wanted me to become doctors, but a doctor, but uh that was kind of like, well, it's the second best option.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my then uh partner now husband, he was he was actually studying medicine um and he was hating it.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we both did not come from hospitality backgrounds.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what happened was that, you know, like the the normal as a normal story might start, you know, I kind of didn't really see my future in corporate, he didn't see his future in medicine, and we were kind of a little bit unsure about what we were our next steps were going to be.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: He um we had moved out together and he actually fell in love with baking, which is really, really bizarre, you know, because uh he yeah, he kind of grew up, his mum loved baking.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then we, when we had the opportunity to move out, I guess I love my desserts and it was perfect.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: He loved baking, and so we just started and he just started experimenting and playing around with things, and we were like, you know what, maybe we this is what we can do, we can give it a shot.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we actually opened a dessert bar.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: That was our very first business in Sydney.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we grew that.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's called the chalk pot.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: We grew it grew that to five locations.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now we don't have five locations anymore.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we just have the one.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: We we kind of scaled back down because it was a lot in that journey.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this was almost nine years ago um that we started that first business and then you know, grew it, scaled back down.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the meantime, we also started a burger restaurant, and we have two of those locations operating right now in Sydney as well.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we, you know, it sounds like I kind of skipped a lot of the hard, you know, really, really hard moments, but um it was, you know, hospitality and retail, physical, having a physical store, having a fit out.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: We were in debt, hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt from even before day one.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was actually really, really scary when we opened our doors.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think anyone who started their own business can probably res this probably resonates with them, where you think that as soon as you open your doors, it's just gonna be flooded.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, of course, people are gonna want this thing.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna, and that that did not happen.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it was really, really scary to those months where we just did not know how to actually grow this thing because we'd never done business before, we've never even done hospitality before.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we were, it was feeling more and more like we were weighing over our heads.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we had to make it work because we had a lease, we had debt, we had stuff we had to pay, we had supplies we had to pay.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, uh, yeah.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that was like that was the starting point of my entrepreneurship journey.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and now I know that you asked about my online uh experience specifically.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So let me fast forward um a little bit more.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And please jump in if you have any specific questions about that time of it.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I do want to jump in really quick.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: I resonate, of course, Mariah Slav.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I really resonate with what you were saying about.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_03: I also had I have my master's degree in urban design, and I started out with what I thought was my dream job and my dream field.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I had that same, I liked what you said, what what words I didn't see my future in it.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: And and my husband had that as well.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so what was that?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I certainly know my own transition, but leaving that kind of quote unquote safe, parent-approved world and jumping into entrepreneurship is pretty radical.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: What did that look like for you guys?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like how did that happen?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I it was probably a little bit um, I wish I could have said that, yeah, I just you know cut off all ties and just did the thing.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I we couldn't, we literally couldn't afford it because, you know, as I said, we're in debt, you know, from before day day one.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: So my um my husband, my husband, he deferred his medicine degree because I think we were still like, we don't know if this thing can work, even though you kind of have to be, you do have to be all in, honestly.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think in his mind he was all in because, but for me, because I'm, you know, the I was brought up with like, you've got to be safe and secure and you've got to have like, you know, your plan B's and C's and Z's, you know, mapped out.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was like, just defer, defer your your degree because you can always go back to it then.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think he secretly actually just like quit.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, yeah, absolutely.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: I will definitely keep it on the table for when I go back, but I'm never going back.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna wait until you realize that.
• 17:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I yeah, I'm pretty sure that's actually what happened.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: I should probably verify that with you.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, he and so he was working in the business full time.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that was great because we needed obviously, and he was he was the face, he was the he was really the heart of the business.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I would basically go from so for a uh for many years actually, I was I still had to work um because we just had way too much debt.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I would go to my nine to five and then I would hop on a train.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was a 20-minute train ride, I'd have my power nap, and then I'd would do the night shift, um, you know, finish at like midnight, go to bed, and then it was just like day after day, it was the same thing.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it literally like for me, it got to the point in those early days, especially.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like I used to give, I used to feel claustrophobic going into the store because I think there was it was just like that physical reminder that wow, I could like really, really badly fail at this thing.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know what to do with that because I don't know how to work with landlords to break leases and be, you know, have to pay out.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't I don't know, like I didn't know these things.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so really actually my one thing was I have this has to work.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is actually no other option because I didn't really, I actually didn't want to have to deal with the other all the other things.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so yeah, so for me, like that it was the transition, I didn't have that sort of stark transition, but there was a transition of going from like a pretty comfortable, kind of like, you know, mindless, I'll call it that, like just showing up, doing the things, going home um to sort of like very full, very physical as well, um, and demanding sort of days, day in, day out.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um would I have it any other way?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not, actually.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because I think it's really, you know, that resiliency and that tenacity, like, you know, you can only really build some of these things by going through it.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that was actually a really, really cool part.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: I say that now, not then, of the journey was actually going through those early days of like really slogging it and having to make it work.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's kind of like, well, I I feel like we always hear experience is the teacher.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like we like to assume and play out in our head exactly how this is gonna go.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like a lot of us can relate to what you were saying about like when you open up the doors, even if even if it's just the virtual doors, even if it's just like you open up your online business by I don't know, I'm just thinking about like how I think I did mine was like a Facebook post to my friends and family of like, hey guys, I'm now doing website design.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I expected everybody to put down everything that they were doing, phone call their cousins, call their uncles, and like tell everybody that like Mariah is now doing this and I'm gonna have so many clients.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like once you build it, they don't come.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, they really don't.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: They really, really don't.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that was that was like a bit of a slap in the face.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of those things as well where we, I mean, we definitely had an opening.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was a little bit different because we had a physical store.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So we invited all of our friends and and everything, and it was great, you know, that that opening night.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then afterwards it was kind of like they just like where were they?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, not even my friend.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we had some friends obviously who would like drop in and stuff like that, but you know, that that can only take you so far.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you don't want to be burning those bridges.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, yeah, how do you then actually that's the that was a tough transition?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: How do you actually go out and actually actively find the people that will that need to actually pay you money for this thing that you've built?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, so that was that was tough.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is that how you got into the online space?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Was kind of like, wait, how do I get these people?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do I start magnetizing these people to me so that I don't start feeding my friends so much cake that they end up resenting me?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so for us, so we started, as I said, quest nine years ago.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that was actually the time when Instagram was just taking off.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like quite early ish on for Instagram.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, you know, I I had no idea.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't hadn't heard of that.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was barely on Facebook at that time.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: And one of our staff members who She was, I think she had just started university, like college.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So she would have been maybe 18-ish.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, Oh, have you heard of this thing called Instagram?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, What?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, I have enough of my plate.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Don't like she's no, no, no, it's really easy.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And like literally everyone is getting on there.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so she started our profile and it was like this really bad photo of one of our desserts.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: But she was like, it doesn't matter.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I just, you know, we're just going to put it out there.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that, you know, so I was kind of like, so we had we had that was kind of pull our first story into online.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And with that came, you know, at the time we were reaching out to a lot of bloggers um to come in, we're inviting them in.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they were saying, oh, like, you know, how do you do a blog post?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: But more and more, like, I'm I'm actually on Instagram.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll post about on Instagram as well.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, cool.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that that was a thing, but oh, sure.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and that was actually really then we in a way, we kind of rode that Instagram wave, like as that platform was really growing and the influences, you know, that concept of influences was really growing.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like we really wrote that.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: We got we had a lot of foodies in Sydney come in.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we had and they were transitioning, a lot of them were transition transitioning from blogging to, you know, the Instagram more visual space.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, that was actually how we really started to gain traction um was through through that medium.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of like my first foray into online.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, but really how I meaningfully got into online was actually when we made the move over here, um, and there's a whole story behind that, which I'm totally happy to get into, but we made the move from Australia to New York.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was actually working on another business with another co-founder at the time, and we were actually exploring it fashion technology idea.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now, again, we we did not know anything about you know marketing online, about doing anything online, really.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we really had to dive deep into it.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think from that was actually where my love of market, like I did not love marketing at all before that, but I think it was just like reading about and seeing the more that I was learning about the possibilities of what I could actually be doing online.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was when my, yeah, everything just opened for me.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wow, there's so much more that we can do here.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that fashion technology idea, we failed it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that didn't that didn't work out.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, again, fast forward a few years, couple years later, and we have another software um that we've launched, and we're really putting everything that we know from an online marketing perspective behind that.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, that's in a short way how we kind of got online.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's really interesting.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you sharing all that with us because one thing I can relate to, and I think all entrepreneurs can relate to, is this idea of being multi-passionate.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: And you are a really inspiring example of someone who has, you know, like you have the call for entrepreneurship, you have all these interests, and you've kind of unapologetically let yourself explore a lot of different interests and like let it evolve.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so now you've really built this position around being an authority figure in marketing.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: And specifically, you know, like I like you're almost reframing marketing and making it a bit more fun for me and engaging.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so you're what you have found through all of these years of experience is that really the power comes down to you being able to tell your story, right?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: And share your story in an authentic way so you can kind of magnetize those people who are not coming, you know.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so um, tell us about how you kind of came to that realization and and how the power of storytelling and what role that's had, I guess, in your business.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: I resisted like storytelling.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: You don't understand.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm such an introvert, I'm really a really private person.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want to share anything.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: And also, I mean, there's also that all the other fears that come along with it, you know, like fear of judgment and you know, like all of these other things.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, those are ultimately in right now, in this moment, like I know that a lot of those for me are just were just excuses.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, yeah, I'm an I'm an introvert, so I can't do this thing, or I like they were just excuses for me really to not to not do what I know that I needed to do.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so let me rewind.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: So with the the chalk pot, it actually, and I didn't even realize it at the time, but that was probably looking back my first um first moment when I shared a story and you know it actually got results.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I was, this is actually uh this is actually a pretty funny story.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So while I was still at corporate and I had we probably had the chalk pot now for maybe gosh, 12 to 18 months.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I had actually started a new role in a new team.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was working in investment bank and there was um, I was I got sort of there were a bunch of us, I got handpicked for this new team that they were standing up in the in called Innovation.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd never I knew one person um from because we had actually been acquaintances at university, but I didn't know anyone else in the team.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we were at this meet and greet uh that my manager had put on for us, and I was with Jane.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: So James was a person that I knew, and Nick was the other guy that I had never met before.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we were just like talking, it was just like general stuff.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then Nick was suddenly like, oh, you guys, by the way, I went to this awesome place last night.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: You guys have to go try it.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and we were like, Oh, yeah, like tell us more about it.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Yeah, so it's this dessert bar.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the uh the um, you know, started by this guy who gave up medicines, he was studying medicine, he gave it up, and he was just baking for his girlfriend.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, from that they started this business, and all the time.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, guess who the girlfriend is?
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, I was like, I because I get I'm like that, I'm like the kind of introvert who wants to like blend in the background, right?
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm just like, oh cool.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then Jason's like, because James knew me.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: So he's like, yeah, like it's her, Nick, it's her.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: And Nick was like, obviously, you know, that's not it, it's you know, it's not a comment.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: So he was like, No, no, no, you got you have to go try this place, but he's like talking about it.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And James's like, no, yeah, dude, it's her.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like pointing at me.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think Nick finally like it clicked.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like standing there going, uh, should we change the subject?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but you know what was like, so it was so funny.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: So that so literally I had someone like who I didn't never met, who didn't know me, who none of that, actually almost like raving about us.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the funny thing was that he was, I mean, while he had enjoyed his time and he obviously liked the dessert, what he kept coming back to was the story.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we had had our story in um printed in the like the front of our menu uh on the front page.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of like everyone sort of read that bit of it.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was when when I look back now, I'm like, wow, this is the power of storytelling because that's what actually makes you memorable.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, because you could see even from Nick like raving about us, he barely even mentioned the dessert.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, our desserts are amazing, but it was really about the story.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was really about because I think he could connect with the fact that, like, again, he's high achieving, high performing, and there's this guy who had given up medicine.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is you know, a path that so many people want to take.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: And he had given this up to pursue this passion, this dream.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was, yeah, for me, that's when I first realized how powerful storytelling really is.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, it's that Simon Sinek quote people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it, right?
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: And what a real tangible example of that.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how cool.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, as you're saying it, I loved what you just said there.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: It made um realize, like, oh, that's kind of a dream that I've had, you know, and that's how we remember things.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, Mariah and I just shot a podcast episode.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Are you familiar with human design as the tool?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: So she, the guest we had, Neha, was giving us like, oh, that's Leonardo DiCaprio, or that's like she was giving us like that's Taylor Swift, you know, that's um Gary Vee, like really tangible examples.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's what the brain can latch on to and remember, you know, that it's like a psychological.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: We've talked a lot about the power of story already on the podcast, but it really is a psychological phenomenon.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like our brains want to take shortcuts.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: We want to like understand things quickly, and we do that through story.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_03: It and the funny side is it works on like a scientific logical basis, but it's also just more fun and like easier to do and more approachable than like the way that I learned about marketing in business school.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna ask because you brought up human design, and I've been sitting here wondering, Deirdre, what is your human design?
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like your profile.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what it is?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: I actually don't know what it is.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm just I'm gonna put this on record that I think that you're a manifesting generator, and I'm just gonna put it on record.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I would like it if you could after this, go and find out and just tell me so that I can be validated in my assumption.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: But basically, the manifesting generator is like somebody that like picks things up and like puts them down.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of just like like the way that your story is, it's like you're following what lights you up until it doesn't light you up anymore.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then you're like, okay, cool, let me go here, let me go here.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're not a manifesting generator, then I don't know what to say.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I just I wanted to ask that before I forgot because I find all of this so interesting, especially like the way that these stories are weaving so well with like the other podcast episodes that we've done.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And like all of your experience, we like I think we connected maybe like six months ago.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's what it was.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And like I didn't know this whole story that you had, and like, you know, your background of where you came from, and like this is all of this is just blowing my mind.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad that you're here sharing all of this.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm glad I'm here with you guys too.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: So before we go too far into current day, what the business is, um, I would like, if you don't mind, I would like to talk about the fashion tech that you decided not to move forward with, because I think that's an important part of story that people don't get to hear a lot.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: And there are a lot of failed ideas, and it's literally just a data point that you can, you know, track and move on from income back more successful than ever.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of people get really derailed.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe an idea didn't take off, and maybe you launch something new and nobody came.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you open the doors, and that doesn't mean it's over for you.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's a really cool part of everybody's journey, us multi-passionate entrepreneurs that gets glossed over.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: So, as much as you're comfortable with, would you share with us?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how did you know?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm sure it was like, I didn't see my future in this, or at some point you had to pull the plug and like move on, and that's kind of scary.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_03: You have to cut your losses.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, what did that look like?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I it's yeah, it's really interesting.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna throw in another bonus, you know, failure.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I wouldn't call it a failure.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's uh it's something that I just would not wish upon any entrepreneur, to be honest.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it's it's kind of it's kind of the catalyst because we had I had two catalysts actually for moving over here.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: One was the business, um, and then another was this this thing that happened.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't mind, like I please, yeah.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: So uh this was probably so by now, uh, because it was probably three, three years ago now.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, five, six years into having um into starting the chalk pot.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I, as I mentioned, uh so that was kind of just running.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: We had by that point, we had had, yeah, we had the five stores um by that point.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, we had store managers and it was kind of they they were just running, actually was still overseeing it.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so that freed me up because I didn't, I wasn't needed in the business anymore to pursue something else with another co-founder that I actually met through work, through corporate.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so we started on this, yeah, this idea.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: And and at the time it was just like we just it actually stemmed from a problem that I have because honestly, like I don't enjoy shopping.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just came in one day.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I used to shop kind of like twice a year when you know it's like but before summer, before winter, like when the when the seasons change.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And like I came in and I was saying to Bonna, who you know like who's my co-founder, I was like, oh, I just like I didn't end up buying anything.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: I spent hours literally like on sites and stuff, just going through things.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I just wish someone would just tell me what like what to buy, just just give it to me.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but online, like in a virtual, like I don't want to go into it and see a personal stylist or anything like that.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of like the problem that I had felt.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And from there we started um just it's kind of like more so just diving into hey, is this a big enough problem and how would we solve it if it was?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now at the same time, in the chocolate, um, I remember there was this night, it was a Thursday night, gosh, yes, I actually remember exactly, you know, how I felt at the time.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it was late, it was like 2 a.m.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: in the morning, and I kind of startled awake because I think I noticed the night the light was still on outside.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and because Ash wasn't in bed, he was like on, he was at the dining table actually.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I come out and I'm like, oh, it's really late, you've got to come to bed.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, and but I could see on his face like that there was just something really, really wrong.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what's going on?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, no, no, no, you go to bed.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't, because he knows how badly I sleep sometimes.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, there's no way that I'm gonna get to sleep now.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, You just you gotta just tell me.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so he was like, Yeah, I just got off the phone from someone in the team, um, someone who's who uh was working that night in our busiest store, actually in the city, it's in the heart of the city, and he was like, She was saying she doesn't know how it's it was getting done, but our store manager um has been stealing from us.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and Ash had from that, I think they spoke maybe midnight-ish.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so for the last couple of hours, had just been trawling, like A, trying to figure out how it was getting done, and then B trying to quantify um, you know, as much as possible.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so he figured out how it was getting done, um, how you know this this person was doing it.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And even at that point, it was already racking up into the like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, and this is like it, like, and I so I still remember like that just like that sense of it's not even the money.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously it's a lot of money, so that matters, but like it's just that sense of betrayal um that you feel when you know someone you trust that much, you know.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, so that was kind of, I think when something like that happens, just your your perspective shifts quite a bit.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think for us, you know, I I got to the point where I was just almost like, is this where we want to what we want to be doing?
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is this where we want to be?
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like is, you know, we kind of, you know, to your point, we kind of it felt like we fell into it because at the time that was a something that we were pursuing.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: It was a it was a passion that we were pursuing, but it kind of had become we had kind of created our own own hamster wheel in a way.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like you you kind of go from wanting to escape a hamster wheel, but you end up sometimes creating your own another one.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we were just like day in, day out, it was like the same thing, you know.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is this and I was like, is this actually what we want to be doing?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of like really opened up, you know, our our minds to possibilities.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd always wanted to work and and live overseas.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, you know what, like effort, should we just should we just do should we just do this thing?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of like one side of it.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other side, you know, I was working with with Bono and this fashion technology idea.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I was like, yeah, we can, you know, if if we're serious about this, and this was like the moment when I was like, okay, we're just gonna go all in.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're gonna, I'm I'm gonna make the move.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know what is gonna happen because we have no jobs.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like again, you know, back to I kind of want plan B to zettle, like none of that, like absolutely none of that.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we were just gonna make this move and see what happens.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, when I kind of told her, I was like, look, I think we've made this decision to um to move overseas.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like, oh, okay, we'll we'll we'll just try to make it work, you know, I'll do like northern hemisphere hours, she'll do southern, like all of that sort of stuff.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And in the end, I was like, Well, do you just want to move over?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because what better place than New York to like fashion technology?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the best place to actually try to work to really build this thing.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so and then she was like, Yeah, why like again, why not?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I kind of like I always say that I um came with my husband, my cat, and my co-founder, Into to New York City.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we basically hit the ground running.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we we uh really wanted to prove this thing out before we spent any meaningful money building it.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: That was the one thing um we didn't want to like put a lot into dev work.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we went to um the Columbia.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: So at the time, our hypothesis was that um our potential customers would be either like college students or like young professionals.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we went to Columbia, we went to NYU campuses, uh, Wall Street, and we just literally started talking to women.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we would um so we did sort of like, you know, talking about like experience design and user, user design, like all of that sort of stuff.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: We would um ask them, you know, questions, open-ended questions to try to work out if there was a problem there.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then we actually got contact details and we came back with like, hey, this is a really rough prototype.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can you just press the buttons and you know, and we could see what they were, what was happening.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was like a lot of them were like, oh, this is a really cool thing.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: But when it came down to would you spend money or like, you know, how how would this like work for them in their day-to-day?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: It just didn't seem like it was a like while it was a problem, it wasn't a big enough problem that they would actually change the habits for because they were able to solve for that problem in other ways that they were pretty happy with now.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so while we were like, if we had the runway, this thing probably could have worked, but we just didn't have the runway.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we didn't have the funds, we didn't have any of that.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of why we made the decision to fail it.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's yeah, it was just literally what was the, you know, we could have probably pursued it, but we wouldn't have like, I don't know where we'd be, like we wouldn't have been able to stay here, that's for sure.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, man, there was so much wisdom that you just shared with that story, uh, all the way back from um, you know, I think if you maybe or maybe not, but I really like that quote you said of when you try to escape one hamster wheel and hop on the next, you know.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think there's I certainly relate to that story.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of people do, we don't really realize, and that's fine, you know, it's part of the journey.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: You have to kind of collect the data points.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: This works, this doesn't work, this works, this doesn't work.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I really love what you shared about prove.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: You need to prove an idea before you invest in it.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: I, you know, obviously there's some initial investment that goes into anything, but I think a mistake a lot of people make is you know, they haven't really defined what that problem is and who they're solving it for.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: And what you said is, is that problem even big enough?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and you can't really know that until you get in and start doing the science experiment and collecting data.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that is the most important question to answer, you know, get that proof of concept and then, you know, build, you know, invest in the development and like scale it and build the big brand identity with the strategy.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: But like, don't put the cart before the horse.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: You have to have a solution that solves a problem.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's such an interesting story.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: And there's so many cool like nuggets of wisdom there that a lot of entrepreneurs can really benefit from.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and just like your your courage, your vulnerability, I think needs to be highlighted here too.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: Of the fact that, like, yo, you just go out and do it.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, yeah, I mean, like, no big deal.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: We just went to like college universities and started talking to like females about like what their issues are.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm thinking of me doing that, and I'm more of like an extrovert, and I'm thinking of me doing that.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't know if you could pay me.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't know if you could pay me to do that.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like just shining the spotlight on how willing you are to get the data, to get the research, to find these points, and then have the self-awareness to come back and to honestly reflect.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm sure that a lot of us as entrepreneurs, I can talk myself into anything.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, oh, maybe we just didn't go to the right campus.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we just didn't ask the right questions.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've talked myself into some investments where I'm like, ooh, yeah, that didn't need to happen, but I saw how I talked myself into it.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I just wanted to spotlight and reflect like all of these different things that are kind of working together and how great you are at telling the story about them.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no wonder that story is your thing.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I, you know, it's it's funny because I at the time, it's it's yeah, um, thank you for raising that because at the time, going out and talking.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Just to randoms.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I I don't think we'd be allowed to swears, but I was terrified to do that.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: So how I got I how I got around that was um so it it helps to have two of us, uh so Bonner and I.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'd just be like, oh Bono, you're the you're the extrovert.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: You you go say hi and I'll just cocktail you.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that is honestly how like we probably did like the first couple.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then, but then after that, when you just sort of realize that actually people don't mind, like as long as you're not something someone crazy, and you're not as long as you're not like asking for their life savings, or you know, you're not doing anything, like they actually most people generally are really lovely.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they are willing to yeah, have a chat with you.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's kind of like again, you know, we talk about having to go through experience so much, like you for me, that's what I needed to just go through that experience to realize that actually it's not as scary as in practice as it is in our own heads.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so talk about a quotable.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: That is so, so good.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I liked what you said too.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: It helps to have two of us.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's something that I say to Mariah a lot.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it helps to have a partner that really balances your skill sets.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm more of an introvert and she's an extrovert.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_03: And that that has been a game changer for me of like finding partnership and collaboration and someone that really can kind of see you and then bring in their own skills that complement you.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it sounds like you've found that with a few people, you know, your husband and your co-founder.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that is um, you know, we don't have to do this all alone because it is hard.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: It requires a lot of courage and bravery.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: It does, yeah.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um so just Shay, you're gonna have to add at this.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just lost my fucking train of thought.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um so basically, I guess my question is is after after this software, like you decided that like you didn't want to move forward with it.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know that me and you connected basically, like from you specializing in, I think it was e-commerce, like you were running a summit to help e-commerce business owners really grow their business.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, can you walk me through like that decision?
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: I know it sounds so random, doesn't it?
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so at the time that we were testing uh the fashion technology idea with, you know, and customers, we were also actually speaking to a lot of boutiques and brands because it kind of needed to be a marketplace.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: We needed both sides to work.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, we did that thing where I honestly I look back and I'm like, I don't know how we did some of these things.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but we actually went into like offices, like, you know, um in the fashion district and stuff, and we would just knock on doors and be like, hey, we would just love to have a chat about this idea that we have and whether you know you there might be a part for you to play or we can help you in some way, or you know, and so we were having these really great chats with people around uh with brands and boutiques around you know their the problems and it always came down to acquisition.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was always, and I think honestly, that's like every business, almost every business is you know, it's all about acquisition, right?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so when we just made the decision to actually like not to stop um the with the software idea, we actually circled back and we were like, actually, I think there's a way that we can help them in a more traditional sense um on the acquisition side.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we actually had like pretty much had started up, I guess, an agency.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't we didn't intend to start up an agency, but we just started working with them around actually acquiring, acquiring customers.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: And because they were in retail and was like e-commerce, they were product-based, um, that just then made the most sense when we didn't want to be doing it for people any longer and we wanted to coach instead.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to be able to help people sort of really like trying to start up and really grow.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's how we went into e-commerce coaching because that was where our experience in around acquisition really was.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as well, like even in hospitality, my background, like that was all product-based.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, that was kind of where how my head thought uh until I started really getting into that coaching space and looking at how from a service coaching perspective, we have to market a little bit differently.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that, and you know, when I was talking before about how like just I fell in love with marketing and like how open because and that was the thing, it was like how, you know, with my diverse experience and being across all the different types of industries and stuff, I was like, oh, so this this thing that's working over here for this industry, how do we leverage that and use it in this other industry?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and it became really, really cool.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how you know we started helping these brands over boutiques actually go live, start going live a lot more, um, you know, doing trunk shows, virtual trunk shows, things like that.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because not that that was anything brand new, but that was something that I was seeing happening in the coaching space.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, that, and I and we know that connection happens when you know people can kind of meet people.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what we really brought to life um in the sort of in the retail of the product-based space.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, that was that's kind of how we transitioned from like this software technology idea into e-commerce and now actually into CAPSHO, um, which is a lot broader than just e-commerce again.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: So, can I just make sure I understand this correctly?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: Even though the fashion technology app was a quote failure, data point, right?
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: It was really the launching point for your current business in a way, because it allowed you to meet a target market, understand their problem, think about solutions, start offering those solutions.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I love what you're saying about taking a look at other industries.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: What are they doing, and how can you, you know, bring that into your own industry?
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a lot to learn, and we all stay so insular.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_03: And you actually brought up something I have a question.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_03: I spend about half of my time in the product-based world and the other half of the time in the service-based world.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_03: What are the similarities and differences between marketing in the two worlds?
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Because there is like some things do work really well, but then some things are very, very different.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh this and this is going to be this is a really tough one for product-based businesses, but I think more and more it is, it does come down to that storytelling.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you know, traditionally product-based businesses, it's kind of like, yeah, here's the thing, here's the the widget that I'm selling, like, you know, buy it.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so the more that we spoke to even, you know, clients um in that space, they were like, I don't like, I don't want to be the face, I don't want to like, I don't want to tell stories, like I just want to sell the thing.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that's great, but you can only like we have to understand how people sell, like how things get sold.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and especially like unless you're a big brand, unless you're like a Sephora or something, they don't need to, obviously they don't need to, right?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: They just have a ready pool of people ready ready to buy.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're a small brand and you're starting in you're starting out, like you need something different.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: You need a different, and the the biggest differentiating factor that we can all have is ourselves, right?
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: And our stories, like why we started this thing.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: We could be selling the same product, I could be selling the same shirt as you, but the way that I talk about it and the stories and the reason why I'm selling that shirt is going to be so different to you and why you're doing it.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: And some customers will vibe with my story and and me and and my approach, and some will vibe with you.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but that is really how we need to differentiate ourselves when we're starting when we're really trying to grow a business.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: So ultimately, that was kind of like the the real the shift in the yeah, the the shift that a lot of product-based businesses had to make um in when they were starting their and that that was the biggest difference that I saw saw from between the coach and service space and the product-based business space.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry, Mariah.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm just I'm kind of thinking.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, in terms of like if somebody is brand new at telling their story, whether it's product-based business, whether it's service-based, new entrepreneur, maybe it's even a seasoned entrepreneur, that it's like, I'm starting to hit a plateau, like what else can I do?
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: I know that your focus is obviously story, and it's like helping people really find their voice.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any steps for people or just like suggestions or tips on just like how would I get started doing that if it's like not a natural thing that I show up doing?
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I think the first thing uh like totally understandable because I started from that place.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, where what was really holding me back was I fundamentally believed that I had nothing worthy of saying.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why would anyone want to listen to me?
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: Why would anyone care about my story?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like what, like it just made no sense for me.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, the first step is like is making that mindset shift that we are actually as individuals, we are remarkable in our own right.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we like our lives, all our lives, sorry, I know that sirens behind me, like our whole lives are they are just a series of stories.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so whenever people come to me and they're like, I don't have any stories to tell, I'm like, wow, let's just let's sit down for a moment and you know, because that's how we communicate.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: We communicate.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that's always my first step, is like realizing I think you have to know that you have the stories.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: Let me interject.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: I have identified that.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_03: I I've definitely had those thoughts of like, oh, it's already been said.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_03: I no one would want to hear what I have to say anyway, blah, blah, blah.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: I can see that, but how?
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_03: I know that that flip needs to happen.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: How what did that look like?
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: How do you make that transition into like fundamentally believing you have something worthy to say?
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you know what?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if I do fundamentally believe that.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's funny, right?
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because I talk like, yeah, you have to believe it, but it's like at the same time, like, do as I say, not as I do.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, I still struggle with that sometimes, right?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Which is like, I don't, I don't actually know if my my but I think what it comes down to for me is like, look, if I can hopefully change one person's perspective or one person's view, like that in itself is success.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_00: And like I really had to get into the practice.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I started going live literally every week.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: And as part of my life, I would want to tell a story.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: And some worked and some didn't.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the whole thing, it comes back to experimentation and just doing it and testing things.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the only way that you can do that is like action.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_00: Make it about yeah, action.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_00: And also make it about the data.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is the thing.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, when we talk about the the data versus emotion, like when you just focus on the data and like you are just gonna do something to get data points, it takes the emotion out of it, yeah, right.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so and so much of it is like, oh, I'm such a failure because this thing, like it's there's so much, but it's like, no, you like you're not.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: You just look at the data and where did it fall?
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Where could we improve the thing that you're trying to do?
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so you start to take the like it's not about you, it's not about you being a failure, it's none of that.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like maybe you we just didn't get enough people to see the thing, like, you know, what what is actually what is the data actually telling us?
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: But the only way that we can get to that data is by doing the thing is by the action.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so for me, I kind of just had to be like, you know, I really don't want to do this.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_00: I really like I was so scared hitting light, like I was just, it was terrible.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was watching back on one of my first ever lives, and I'm like, oh God, I just cringe because it's like it was so awkward and it was just so, but like this is the thing, like we all um we all suck.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: We all suck when we start doing something.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we just keep doing it until we suck a little bit less.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's and that's helped me actually just to be like, yeah, you know what, I know I'm gonna suck.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like just accept it.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Accept the fact that I'm gonna suck.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if I just keep doing this and if I just keep showing up, I know because I believe in myself fundamentally, I know that I will suck less until I kind of become kind of good at some point.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think, you know, yeah, for me, like that was I I I needed to do, I just needed to start doing it.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then yeah, and then there are like, you know, ways that we can talk about, you know, how a story has to, you know, like the the types of characters that I generally talk about and how it has to flow and things like that.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: But it it does just come to you, just got to start doing it in the best way that you know how sometimes.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel like what's what's coming up for me is like, okay, I could press the live button, right?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I could have a conversation.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: But my question is kind of similar, but from a different perspective of like, okay, so I might have a story, right?
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I might have one.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: My life might be a story.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: But like, what story do I tell?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's kind of the question that continuously comes up for me.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, I can have a conversation with somebody, but it's like, what story do I tell?
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like figuring out like what I want to say, and I guess like what the point of me saying it is.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that that becomes a block for me.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the way that I think about it is um I do start from the end.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: I do start from like what is the point that I want to want to make.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so for example, let me talk about the structure of my life, uh just as a tangible example.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the way that structured is generally I'll um I'll have a story that then leads into three um points, three three things that, you know, they could be three secrets or three actions or three whatever.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I'll actually start from okay, what what is the topic about?
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll generally know what the three things are that I'm gonna talk about.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the greatest thing about a story, um, and this is probably more of like in intermediate to advanced sort of storyteller, which is why I put it generally don't start here.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: But the best thing about a story, the straw, the most powerful thing about a story is that when you it was kind of like the same thing that's happening now, right?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: When I tell my stories, I love when she's like, oh, that's so resonating with me because she's listening to my story, but in her own context, right?
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: She's she's listening to my example, but she's thinking about that time when she, you know, had to first press live or whatever, you know, like um, and and that's where the power comes in.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: So when I when I think about a story, I want to think about a time when I had either help um coming up with, you know, the things I'm talking about, or I had an epiphany, or I went through something and I, you know, I it actually made me realize that, hey, these were the these were the learnings, these were the things that came out of you know that that particular story.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I kind of almost reverse engineer it to go, I know I want to talk about these things.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I know, I know that I'll have a story somewhere, even if it's not a business-related story.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: I told stories about like when we first got our cat.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was to do with pattern interrupt, you know, like totally random.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, you know, tell a story about um, you know, when Ash and I first met, like, you know, things that just happen in life.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_00: But in that's why I say our lives actually see series of stories, everything that you do, most likely, can actually have some kind of learning, some kind of epiphany out of it.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's where the power comes in, is when you can actually tell something that is like so relatable that people also have that same epiphany or that same learning.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: So then that when you go into like the three things, the three steps, whatever, their their minds are already there.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: Their minds are like, Yes, I know that this is gonna work, I know that this is what I need because I've been through that same experience.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: I can totally relate with that, and that's what I need.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, wow.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's connecting a lot of gaps that I had.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: And just from my own experience, and we talked about this in um Rana's episode, which was also about stories.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hers was more about like um like women, ancient women stories and like how they play out and things like that, and like our lives and like our subconscious.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember in that episode, I was like, yeah, but like, okay, I get that I have a story, but like what story?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because it feels big.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like the story that I have to tell has to be my life story, has to be the overarching hero's journey of my entire life.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: And like that makes me not want to show up and say any story.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that like you're breaking it into these like bite-sized pieces of story that also connect the strategy and then allow me to get data points.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like you are so clearly speaking my language to where I feel a little bit more confident in showing up and just like telling a story now.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, awesome.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: See, this is this is and this is the thing.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is why I actually have had to get out of my own way and just like stop giving into my own BS because like if I can have that kind of impact on, you know, like what you were just saying there, I'm like, wow, like like this is what gets me juiced, you know, like when I can when I can see that realization or that, and you're like, yes, I can just I can do it.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, yes, you can.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it makes me anyway.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, sorry.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_03: My big takeaway is that and what stop giving into my own BS.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's so good.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_03: For me, you're right, it's not about me.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: And like you're saying, really, the power in a story lies in its relatability.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_03: So if I can just immediately take this, it's not about me and how worthy I am and how good my story is.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's about the people I want to serve.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: What do they need to hear?
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: They're gonna get something somewhat.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_03: If one person gets something out of this, isn't that a win?
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like that is such a good shift.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's not about you, you know.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like I need that reminder constantly.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: I think we all do, and that's really where it gets powerful.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: And what you're saying is it's all just a fun science experiment.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_03: Collect the data.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: Some of your stories are gonna resonate, others won't.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_03: And the more and more you do it, you're gonna get a little bit better at saying the things that you know your people are really into.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_03: And the only way to it is through it, you know.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_03: So there is so, so much wisdom.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like we have like a million quotables from this episode, and this is really a nice tie now into what I'm really curious about is CAP show, you know, where um tell us a bit about your working with these businesses, you're seeing that the power in marketing, it really lies in story.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_03: You're helping more like e-com businesses don't want to become commodity, right?
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_03: So you're helping them get out of that space with story.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_03: And where did the idea for Cap Show come from?
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_03: Tell us about how that started.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think, again, it was so brave to be like, oh yeah, and we're gonna develop this software.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like to me, that's such a big jump.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so I, you know, a lot of it stemmed from a lot of the some of the questions that, you know, even Mariah was asking, which is like how like how, how does, you know, because uh time and time again, you know, our clients would be like, that's great, Deidri, I understand that I have to tell stories, but I don't know, um, I don't know how.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that actually that was that was hard for me because I think I had gotten into this rhythm, into this pattern of like, you know, sometimes when we just start doing it and we're like, and then we almost become good at it and we don't really like I had to actually go back and chunk it down and be like, okay, so what is it that I do?
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like how can I how can I actually almost make this into a formula?
• 1:04:41
  unknown: Right.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that was that was like what I went and did.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, when I was talking about how I start from the end point and then I work my way up.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I knew that all for stories that sell at least, you know, because stories can just be stories and we can tell them and that's great.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, stories that sell needs to have um, I call it like, okay, let me talk about the characters in the story that, you know, when when we talk about that.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um I in my mind, I have like three main characters.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: So there's one that's the hero, and I actually always say that the hero is the customer or the client, right?
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually the person that you're speaking to.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, when we talk about, you know, you you hear the story, you hear my story in your frame, right?
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're the hero.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so when I talk about it, I I want to position myself as two other characters.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_00: One is what I call the pre-hero, and one is the guide.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: So when I'm talking about the pre-hero, I'm actually that person who I was just like you.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is the this is the journey I went through.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is the experience that I had.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then, but now because I've been through that, and you know, I love what you said, like you have to go through it to get to to get to it.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've now I can now become the guide.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: I can now transition into okay, these are the three things, or these are the, you know, how many.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: steps for you to have to get a similar outcome to me.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was like that's kind of like my overall structure.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, when you talk, when we talk about that pre-hero part, there's obviously like ups and downs that you have to go through, you know, because everything goes has a journey.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to have some kind of villain.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be a person, but it can be a thing.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what is that thing that you are trying to fight?
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it has to have emotion.
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the other thing with stories.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of stories get told, but they don't get told with the emotion.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how we again that's how we connect, right?
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I I I was like, okay, so that's kind of the the components of you know what we have to create in that pre-hero story.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we turn our attention to the the guide bit, really this is about how do we it's fundamentally how do we provide practical value.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's what it comes down to.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you can provide value to your customer, so not only have you connected with them, but then you've actually provided them value, then it becomes a no-brainer for them to want to keep you know following, you know, consuming your content, all of those things.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of for me, it's kind of always merging these two concepts together of like not just the how-to's but you know actually frame framing those how-to's through a pre-hero story.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: So overall that was the thing.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then um and then I was like okay that's great.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then what?
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like how to you know um and so then it was like with every story I mentioned the ups and downs.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: So generally we start sit down somewhere or relatively neutral, right?
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: Neutral or down.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: Because the story has to take us through well what did we like, you know, what did we decide to do?
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the up because we get excited and then we start we try doing it and then that's a down because as we know whenever we try doing something it generally doesn't work out.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then but then we we start to you know we I don't know uh talk to a mentor a guide or we speak to a friend and it's like oh maybe we should try this thing and so then we go back up because we you know and then um and and then we find success and then that you know and that's how that kind of the story ends.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there's all these ups and downs that happen that we have to bring to life because no one wants to hear a story that's just like you know I started at A and then I ended up at Z and good luck.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that you know so that was kind of you know yeah in my mind I was like okay so I know that there are these ups and downs.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know that at each point of up and down we feel things right again those emotions right we we we feel some kind of high and those highs could be happiness or excitement or optimism you know there's a whole host of words for that.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we feel down, you know it might be that we're overwhelmed or we're anxious or we're you know unhappy like whatever those downs are.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I also know that a lot of people don't um you know the the the power as well from emotions come from the physiological like state that that puts you in.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so even for me and I didn't even realize I was doing this until Bonner pointed out but when I was talking about you know feeling claustrophobic when I you know I was in the first few months of the business it was like because that's literally how I felt but a lot of people that doesn't come naturally to actually translate a feeling to you know an a physiological like response to it.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so part of the software as well was like as long as you can identify the feeling we'll help to actually plug in you know that physiological response because that's I we get it it's not an easy thing for people um to to do especially when you've been you're so far removed from potentially that story that you don't even know what you were that you were sweating with, you know, or whatever, right?
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah so there was kind of like we had to really break it down into a formula into a structure that that made the most sense.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now is it perfect?
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: Probably not yet still um you know because we really needed to get people through it really need to test it.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: We probably think it's a a little bit still too much.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: So we really want to try to chunk it down but we don't ultimately we don't want to lose the essence of what makes it a story.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then you know the guide bit is actually probably everyone's easiest.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like it should actually be easy for a lot of people because that's where the logic comes in right and people generally can lean on logic a lot more easily to come up with like yeah these are the three things that you need to do and this is why.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah that's kind of how CAPSHO the actual like backhand or the the I the thought process of cap show came about.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah it was really just from me having to really delve into and this is a hard thing, right?
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like how do I do what I do and then how and then take that and how do you actually like turn into something that can be automated in a way um yeah that's uh and yeah it and really the idea just came about because I had clients who were like I just how can we do this easier?
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it came from a problem a problem that yeah I had as well because while I could talk about you know about these things I had trouble writing it um sometimes writing it and writing it into captions that you know was a lot more short form.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had that problem my clients had that problem and I was like there's just got to be a way that we have to solve that we can solve for this there just has to be um and so that's yeah how we how we got going.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Wow so can I ask you a question you know Mariah gave me a little behind the scenes tour of the um software itself and one thing I noticed the way it's set up is really smart.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know you've kind of combined journal prompts and mad libs to help people create almost like a database or a library of content that and then your software can come in and kind of fill in the blanks and rearrange things and it it really makes it almost fun dare I say to create these stories.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_03: And one thing I noticed as we were going through it was everything was fill in the blanks but when you got to the emotional piece it was actually like a drop down menu of like tons and tons of different emotions.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought that was interesting because I do know you know what a I read some Harvard study the other day all sales is made on like that emotional subconscious or at least 90% and it's funny because we all rely on logic and we think we're all so logical but really it is more about those emotions.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that a lot of us aren't really great.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have a big vocabulary of emotions you know it is hard for us to name that and that is really where the power is so when I saw that big list come up I was wondering is this to really prompt people and to really give them an idea of the full spectrum of emotions instead of just getting happy sad angry yes like quite yeah because that's the thing it is and that's why I was saying that's the hardest part I think for from a storytelling perspective is for people to actually tap into that feeling.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah exactly to that point it was like okay well how can we A make it easier but then also not have to necessarily rely on you know call it user error or the the the person to actually try to verbalize that like how can we how can we you know take a stab our best stab at filling in that that physiological emotional response um in that story at that time.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that was yeah um that was the purpose behind that.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's so smart.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I love that I remember when I was showing Shay I clicked on I was like oh shit look at all of these and like we had to take a few minutes and like look at them but like you're right usually when I'm explaining emotions I have you know my grab bag of like five emotions that I like to pull I'm like feeling overwhelmed, frustrated and like I tend to go back to those two.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And what I like about CAPTO and I'm so grateful that like you allowed me to kind of jump in and and test this is like these different tools and everything.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_01: So like just for our listeners just so you guys can get a little bit of a visual there's different tools that you can use.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And like Shay said it combines journal prompts and mad libs.
• 1:14:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's essentially you click on the tool, you go through the prompts, you answer the questions and it allows you to have something to respond to.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you're not sitting there with a journal trying to come up with like random things and then formulate it into a story.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it'll prompt you for you know like what happened who are you with the surroundings how did you feel what did you come up with like what was the low point all of these questions that like they feel really good to answer, but they also like it's easy but they make you think just enough to the point where it's not overwhelming.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's really like wait a minute what did I think?
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it allows you to like check in with yourself and then when you go ahead and submit this tool you then get I is it like nine captions for Instagram and then I think it's like one email for like your email marketing.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's something like that.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember me and Shay were looking at like the captions that it created and we were just laughing because we were like these are these are so good and like we followed prompts before and like we've done that for like content creation and all of those other ones felt really unaligned and felt really like generic but we were reading this and Shay's like wait did you write that like was that something that you wrote and I was like I don't remember because like it sounded so aligned with everything.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then I click this tab and I end up seeing like the email that it came up with and I only read like you know the first couple sentences and I was like you know if I read this email I would buy whatever this person is telling me.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like this is incredible.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_01: That is so awesome.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah like even us just doing it for a few minutes, we were mind blown at like how authentic it felt even when we didn't sit there having to flush out an entire story like we're writing a book.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah a hundred percent and that's kind of what we wanted to bring to life was that authenticity um because I think you might have mentioned Shay um before that you might have tried other either prompts or templates or other software that you know there are some out there that's like yeah just put in one keyword and then it'll just it'll, you know, but all they're doing really is just finding that keyword out there and then bringing back a whole host of captions that just happen to have a keyword.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that has nothing to do with you.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's not in your context that's not you know and so we really wanted to rethink that and be like no it has to start from you it has to start from your experience and your story and then the rest will follow.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah thank you for saying that yeah I'll say that um this I don't know if I'm going to use these terms correctly but what you have really feels more like AI or artificial intelligence whereas what I've done before was more of like a template generator.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know like I just plugged some things in and then it just put it through a formula and and I know yours does this in a way but yours is really the cool part about it is the more you do, the smarter it gets and it can really grow with you.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_03: And like Mariah said there was some stuff that we were like we didn't even write that but that's better than we could have come up with and it was all like emotional based and and so it was just I've never I I really I struggle this is a pain point I have and then it's a pain point that clients have it and if they don't have it themselves they're looking to hire a social media manager because they think they're gonna be able to come in and tell their story but they can't you know I've seen so many clients we do that and it's still off it's like someone came in and had a robot generator make up content.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_03: You have your story and so this is a way to like pull it out of you in baby steps and then it kind of adds in some bits and details and that really important emotional piece and it sounds real.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I mean it it magic really I I was skeptical to be totally honest because I have had bad experiences with this kind of stuff before and this when Ryan was showing me I was like whoa I need to buy this right now.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it just talk about solving a big problem.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_03: You know like I really am just impressed and inspired by your story of the whole time it was just like being curious, getting out there asking a bunch of questions trying to find the problems who do I want to work with what are they struggling with?
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_03: How do I support them?
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know it was all just very letting curiosity guide the way right and then trusting yourself and and I I really got so much out of this conversation and I can't thank you enough.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that the the product itself is cool because in this business space I feel like a lot of us are given okay here's the business model you start a coaching business or you start a product based business e-comm, you know, and you're like we're going to create a SaaS product that is really innovative and is fun to use and beautiful and intuitive and solves this big pain point.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's just very unique and innovative it's so helpful and I had just got a lot out of hearing you kind of take us through all that.
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh thank you so much.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for letting me share it.
• 1:19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah this was this was amazing.
• 1:19:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that you and obviously correct me if I'm wrong you really help people with Instagram is that correct or is it Instagram and email marketing?
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_00: As in so the the software itself right now is yeah is Instagram and email um but we from a like a because we still do coaching um alongside it from a coaching perspective it's really um social media more holistically um and really with social media with the aim of generating leads like that's what we're all about it's like content is what you need to have content because that's kind of how people get to know like and trust you that's how you build your credibility and authority but really it's like how do we smartly use social media to get leads um and that's what we actually help um people with in in our program.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about turning followers into buyers and that's what we're all about.
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah which is definitely like the most important thing is like using your story to connect with your people and to make sales.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's to generate revenue it's to serve your people it's yeah so I I love that if people are listening and they're really interested like do you have an intro thing that people can kind of check out and maybe learn more about you, learn about the software maybe get help with Instagram.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah so I have um a bootcamp um and if people don't have time for a four-day boot camp then I also have a masterclass um that I offer so the boot camp um is a lot of fun and I actually go through the exact things that you need to be doing on social media but how you can do it all in under two hours a week.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that is at www dot capshow unlocked dot com slash scale.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the web the masterclass that I have um is kind of like a truncated view a truncated version of that I guess and that's at capshowunlocked dot com slash web class I think I'll have to come back to you on that.
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_03: We can we'll link it up in the show notes.
• 1:21:31
  SPEAKER_03: I actually signed up for the four day class.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So do you host those kind of regularly I guess yeah yeah so we'll be doing them pretty much every six weeks.
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah so the next one is Monday signing Monday.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect that's what I was like all right I don't know when the podcast episode's going to go live but I think you even if someone didn't catch the one in January at beginning of January you kind of got them coming regularly.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Okay cool.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay yeah so we'll definitely add those show notes or those links in the show notes is there um other places that people can go to find you and kind of learn more about you yeah so I'm on all of the socials so definitely Instagram um I'm on TikTok now as well I'm on YouTube.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you just my name it's deedri d-e-i-r d r e shen t s h I N.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess everything else is also on my website which is just at deidrichen.com.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay perfect.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah we'll definitely add those links and then before we close this episode down we always ask all of our guests what has been sparking your curiosity lately oh gosh you know what NFTs me too me too tell me more yeah so um like I'm not like super super into it yet um but I I've just started um and it's just like one of those because I've I think I've always been just really a little bit of a tech nerd even though I don't I don't really understand tech like to its fullest.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think that NFTs this is really cool because I always knew about blockchain and obviously crypto and stuff like that.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know I just couldn't really get into it um until like because NFTs brings this really cool almost like creative something different element to it.
• 1:23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also really great we're exploring it from a business perspective as well.
• 1:23:23
  SPEAKER_00: What is NFT?
• 1:23:25
  SPEAKER_01: I instantly what I thought of was I think it's EFT where it's like tapping and I'm like yeah tapping and you're like I love technology I'm like we're not tapping okay not we are not tapping right now.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so NFT stands for non-fungible tokens uh and it's built on blockchain basically uh so that you can you you have the you know I guess the the tech part of it is that it's so that you can actually um pinpoint the true owner of that particular whatever it is that you're selling.
• 1:24:00
  SPEAKER_00: So right now a lot of NFTs is like things like art and collectibles um so you can actually sell that on the block and when it's on the blockchain there's no like getting around it it's you know that that's the person who owns it.
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's yeah that's that's how it's being used in another context other than cryptocurrency.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_01: That is fascinating.
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_03: So Mariah a lot of designers are really excited about it because you could theoretically like create something and then like own it, you know, and you're the source like you own the property rights to it, you know, and and it can grow in value, you know, just like all the blockchain stuff.
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_03: So it is um creatives I think are really really excited about the potentials.
• 1:24:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm also learning about it.
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know much uh but I do think that it's a promising and exciting um opportunity.
• 1:24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah for sure and you know with that we're we're like because I get shiny you can fully tell I get shiny object syndrome like so badly and I'm like I tell my clients I'm like you have to focus you have to focus because that's the only thing and yet here I am with like oh I'm just gonna like learn a little bit about FTs now and I'm gonna learn a little bit um and so I want to start like a little bit of a maybe like a text-based community or something around like shiny object syndrome and it's like look if you you know let this community be the thing that you can ex can use to explore shiny object syndrome but then the rest of the time you're focusing um so that's what I want to that's what I want to start I think but anyway that's DJ I really appreciate your humanness you've done this a couple of times and I think it's so important coaches need to say like we are not perfect like there is no coach on a pedestal and and I I hate all of us entrepreneurs we're here because we have shiny object syndrome as like a personality trait.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I hate it that there's all this shame around it because that is really what is our curiosity.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's just about finding the balance of okay it's fun to stay in that space but do we also stay in the space of I'm gonna get this idea done and like see it to completion before I move on to the next one.
• 1:26:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really our superpower and it's almost a shame where we're like stop stop doing what you do naturally you know I know I know yeah oh thank you thanks for for winning that yeah because I I totally I feel the same I I actually actually when you said the word shame I'm like oh my gosh wow I never actually thought about in that context but you're right we do get shamed for it um we do get shame because time and time again and other entrepreneurs as well that's telling us you've got to focus you've got to focus which I totally get because that's the only way that you can get things done but like that's not possible.
• 1:26:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not humanly possible for us to do that.
• 1:26:43
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah totally yeah it's like I don't know how I'm supposed to be like different than who I am as a human being I don't know how to like shut that switch off.
• 1:26:52
  SPEAKER_03: I've noticed I've had coaches before kind of yeah don't do that you're a shiny object syndrome this is just me I've all I've always been this way like from childhood you know so yeah I think it's more about being aware of it and then like making sure that you are you know pick one and try to finish it but you know just so not letting it get out of control.
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_03: There's a balance just like with everything.
• 1:27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well is there anything else on your heart or that you'd like to share with us before we wrap up today's episode oh um no I feel like I've taken up so much of your time and so thank you for like letting me share um yeah my my journey essentially I'm just really excited to be here and I'm like you know ultimately I'm here to serve you your audience whoever um you know like yeah please reach out if you want to talk about anything social media my very limited knowledge of NFTs um generating leads I'm I'm I'd be so happy to share um more.
• 1:27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh thank you okay cool thank you so much for being here we Loved this conversation, I'm gonna go Google some NFT shit.
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we're gonna close this episode down.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_01: So if you guys enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with somebody that you think would love it.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_01: Or screenshot it, share it on social media, feel free to tag us.
• 1:28:17
  SPEAKER_01: We're still a little small in the podcast world, so you sharing it with somebody or sharing it on social media really does mean everything to us.
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_03: And as always, thank you so much for listening and for your support.
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_03: Consider subscribing and living us a review so we can all continue growing together.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_03: And until next time, remember that you have the power to create whatever the hell you want.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_03: Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see you in the next episode.