Latest / Coaches Rising / 266 - Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Source, Money & the Next Stage of Spiritual Evolution

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266 - Nadjeschda Taranczewski: Source, Money & the Next Stage of Spiritual Evolution · Coaches Rising

• 0:00
  [UNKNOWN]: Thank you for watching.
• 0:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to the Coaches Rising podcast.
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I am truly delighted to share this conversation with you.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll thoroughly enjoyed it and for me it's right at the leading edge.
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm joined today by Nadia Tarancheski and we're going to be exploring Source and Money and the relationship between them.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Source is person who initiates a project or an idea
• 0:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: and they are connected to that sourcing energy.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: In a sense, they may be of channeled or downloaded this project, this business, and so we're going to explore how we can tend to that sourcing, how we can
• 1:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: tap into it.
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: What are some of the common ways that sourcing gets corrupted or co-opted inside of projects and organizations?
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what happens when we do?
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: And what happens when we really open that channel and own that channel of being a source?
• 1:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll also explore how that connects to money.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: As Nadia talks about, money is one of the most important
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: doorways into our evolution and it's particularly important for our times, and so we'll explore some of the common ways that we are unconsciously projecting onto money.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: The ways we are patting with certain beliefs around money and how that limits us and how we can liberate ourselves from them and what happens between money and source
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: as we do so.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Incredibly rich conversation.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Najir is the founder of ConsciousU.com where she runs programs around working with money, working with source amongst other programs.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Najir has been deeply immersed in the work of Peter Koening and is innovating the application of his work inside of leadership development and organizations,
• 2:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's a master certified coach working with leaders globally and the author of Conscious You become the hero of your own story.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Alright, let's dive in here as the podcast with Nadia Tarantioski.
• 2:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Nadia, I was just saying as we were kind of checking in that I'm particularly excited for this conversation as I've discovered your work and read about source and money and so we're going to be exploring that as a topic today.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've already shared one of your articles with our team and
• 3:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you so much for having me.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really excited about this conversation because our pre-convization was already so rich that I am very curious where this will take us.
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, me too.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Me too.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, actually, I think a good place to start would be to talk about source and money and then explore the connection between, that'll probably organically start to happen as well.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And why that's so important for our times, and, you know, I know your work is being really well received by different communities around the world.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, what do you mean by
• 3:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let me start by naming the source of this type of work, right?
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, yes, it is my work now as well, but it is, you know, we all are based on the shoulders of giants and think as before.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the person who was actually the person who,
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: first observed these principles of source, as he calls them, as a gentle man by the name of Peter Koonig, and he's been my mentor and friend now for more than 20 years.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Peter, to give you a bit of context of how this was this even received, right?
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he was one of the first generation of organizational development consultants, if you want.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he's been doing this work for 40 years.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: There wasn't a name for what he did back then, but he He lives in Switzerland and he has worked with a lot of family-run businesses in Switzerland over the years and he said One thing that he observed in all of these team sessions and family sessions around You know, where's this company going was that they were always the same to breaking points
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: One was money and we might touch upon that hopefully later because it's an important topic and the other Breaking point or friction point was what he ended up calling source, which is really about creative authorship So the question of Where did this thing that we now call a company or project or an initiative?
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Where did it originate?
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what Peter observed is that contrary to a lot of the narratives that we like to tell today, for example, you know, where we have like in my company with three founders, right?
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the narrative that we like to tell is what we develop this thing together.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: and Peter sort of by observing how people organize and how anything actually comes into existence said maybe that's not the most helpful narrative to tell because it's actually not true.
• 5:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is usually, well or in his viewpoint, there's always one person and one person only who is the
• 6:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the way he talks about it really made sense to me when I first started having these conversations with him because he said, you know, it's a bit like in nature.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like a tree doesn't grow out of three seeds at the same time.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: There is one seed that seeds the tree.
• 6:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, source.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't have anything to do with ego, but it does have something to do with hierarchy and that hierarchy is time-based.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So one thing came before the other.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in the origin of the word hierarchy, because I know in our generation at any rate and certainly in the generations below us, there is this,
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: nearly allergy against the word hierarchy, right?
• 6:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: We want to move away from that because we've made such painful experiences with hierarchies and our families at school and some of the companies we worked for, we want to transcend hierarchy.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the understanding we know share and sort of our sort of pita-kunig enriched circles is actually the natural root of the word hierarchy is sacred order.
• 7:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 7:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if we see hierarchy as just simply that, that there is a sacred order that describes the becoming of something, the unfolding, the emergence, the pattern behind that, then it's not so threatening anymore.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, source from this perspective points to a person who, you know, sometimes I joke who was the person who was in the wrong place at the wrong time and received a download from, you know, wherever.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we, you know, we could even say there is this, this incredible field of limitless potential.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then suddenly it finds a channel.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that channel is the person who downloads,
• 7:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: an idea or a vision, right?
• 7:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And often when you work with entrepreneurs, for example, I find that very often, if they were the originating source, not if they've inherited it from you know, previous family members, but if they sourced something, they often have this origin story where they just sort of know this was this was the beginning point, right?
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was the
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: that kick started this whole thing.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember, for example, very clearly when I received, I would even say conscious you, right?
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was sitting in a cafe and I had this moment of, I need to write this down.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I said then I wrote for two hours and more or less what we're doing now with conscious you was received in that moment.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we're also very clear that source
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's personal and impersonal at the same time, right?
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I, it's personal because I was the first channel through which this information floats.
• 8:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it is clearly filtered through my,
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, through my network of values and in experience, so there is a personal note to it.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, it's impersonal because I can pass this on, right?
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm much more like a guardian for a certain period of time.
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if and when I feel, I'm ready to move on, or maybe this field needs something else.
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can pass the button, I can pass the torch to somebody else and really let go of this.
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if I were to give it to you, for example, and we do this succession process properly, then you are the source of this.
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you know best what needs to happen within this particular field.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, we can go into more details, but maybe that suffizes as a sort of a first description.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's so many questions bubbling up.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: I recognize in my own life those moments where something just came through and effortlessly and then suddenly it was like, wow, look at this, this is it, this has a kind of transmission to it.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like the essence of something is contained within side of this.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: whatever it is, you know, if it's written or spoken out and so I just want to pick up on something you shared which is fascinating to me where you say that in a sense, you know, there's a download taking place and we're, you know, we're maybe connecting to this field beyond us and at the same time it's our hours in a sense that comes through us and there's
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, it's kind of universal, or it's, you know, we don't own it.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: And could you say more about what you think is what is actually going on there?
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I think that's actually a profoundly important insight to the kind of leadership that maybe is being invited in our times where, you know, it is both
• 11:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like a bypass where it's like, oh, there is no self here.
• 11:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: No individual person.
• 11:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: But it's also not ego-tistical.
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to own this thing and it's all mine and I want to be seen for it.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I want to how you perceive that dynamic.
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I think we're still in the process of understanding that our styles, but the best way for me to describe it is if I'm sourcing something, I become a channel for information, right?
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or as you call it, there's a transmission, and that's very much how I've experienced and how I've seen it in other
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: people who have sourced something.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think that capacity to receive a transmission is in principle open to any of us, right?
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think it connects to our developmental purpose, if you want, which is
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: becoming or unfolding into our highest potential, right?
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the transmission is potentially part of that, because it guides us on this process of unfolding of becoming.
• 12:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if we're open to that, it will guide us to where we need to go.
• 12:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: where friction is created and so interestingly what I've also observed is in the fields that sources create.
• 12:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: The people who feel attracted into this field often have very fine antennas.
• 12:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: For when are you speaking from this grounded place of
• 12:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: connection to this channel.
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when are you just talking from, you know, from ego and wanting something because you, you know, you want this now.
• 12:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a very subtle, but very distinct
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: energy that is connected to both of these places, and quite often when a source is connected very well to this channel of information, and they have built the right culture around them.
• 13:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: What actually happens is that from the outside, everything looks like a collective process, because the alignment in the field is so complete that there is
• 13:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: 99 percent of the time, no resistance in the field because everybody just goes, yeah, no, that feels right.
• 13:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 13:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So from the outside, it looks like we made this decision together.
• 13:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas when a source is, you know, hasn't done their inner work, because of course their, you know, sources out there who've sourced amazing things, but they have not.
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: developed their own internal landscapes sufficiently.
• 13:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they actually drop into ego quite a lot.
• 14:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then you see that there are a lot of power struggles.
• 14:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sources who haven't done the inner work tend to have a pattern between
• 14:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: abandonment in micromanagement, right?
• 14:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they're either gone and not available for people in the field who need guidance at this particular moment in time or they they drop into micromanagement and get involved in levels of detail that are sort of lead totally beyond the scope of what they should be involved in and that creates a lot of tension in the field and nobody actually really knows
• 14:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know what what like what are my limits of autonomy what can I decide here what can't I decide here so you know ego driven feels feel very different from somebody who has really developed a deep understanding of themselves who can notice the difference even you know even within myself like where am I speaking from and I can
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can train my capacity to notice, is that coming from a deeper knowing or is that just coming from just because, you know, just because I want it.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, beautiful because you kind of took my next question on there, which is, you know, I, this is important to me in coaches rising that that we connect to this census or I connect to the sense of source and
• 15:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm hearing, therefore, that the source, it's actually important that they're A doing there in a work, you know, to be able to be a conduit for that, a vessel for a source.
• 15:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And also, actually, making space to connect to that sense of sourcing frequency is being really essential for leadership.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the kinds of, you actually named it there, but, you know, the kinds of modes of being or practices that would help someone as a source to be able to do it, you know, to perform better as a source, yeah.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, I loved what you said about the conduit, right?
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there is what is the work that I need to do to make sure that my channel is open for transmission in a way, right?
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe let me introduce a metaphor here that I find very helpful in my coaching work.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I always think of this metaphor of that we were all, we were all born with an inner house.
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, if you imagine this in a house to be a bit of a Harry Potter-esque creation, right, so it has the capacity for her shifting floor plans and it, you know, walls are never quite where you expected them and not all rooms, you know, technically speaking, really rooms, some of them are white open fields or windows into the universe, whatever, but when you were a child, when I was a child,
• 16:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: We had the capacity to run through this inner house with utmost and complete abandon.
• 17:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in every room, we would meet a different human quality.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And some of these rooms in this inner house are big ball rooms.
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Others are small, tiny, intimate spaces.
• 17:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we have noxan crannies and hallways.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And everything is part of this inner house.
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we would run into one room where we would be, you know, delighted and full of happiness.
• 17:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then a second later we bump our knee and everything is a big drama and the whole world is pain.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, then we see a butterfly, we're fascinated by this butterfly, we're full of curiosity.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then we see an ice cream track and we're like, oh my god, you know, it's all craving and want and I want this ice cream track.
• 17:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, then we get dropped into generosity because we want a kid that can't afford an ice cream to also have a ice cream.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, then we on the playground and we want to shovel that the other kid has.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we become really greedy and, you know, protective of what we feel as ours.
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So children have this permeability where because they have no attachment to any of these states of being in no judgment about them either they just move in and out.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you've ever been around a, you know, toddler within two minutes, they've been in eight different rooms, right?
• 18:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It just goes so fast.
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then, of course, we're domesticated by our parents, peer groups, teachers, our culture.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: and we begin to track that to our environment, not all of these rooms are equal, right?
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because in some rooms, when I step in them, I get attention, I get recognition, I get applause, I get love.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then the other rooms where I get ignored, I get ridiculed, I get punished, or maybe I even get hurt.
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the smart little child that I am I begin to say okay clearly not all rooms are equal because they are good rooms where all the good stuff happens in their bathrooms.
• 18:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what do I do I begin to lock off the bathrooms and I say I'm just not going to go to any more because what's the point.
• 19:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to remind myself, to not step into the bad room, I also put this police tape over it.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: That says, sort of yellow and black do not cross.
• 19:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just to remind myself, that's not a good room.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just don't step in there.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the trouble is that by the time I'm 30,
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: My house looks excuse my French like a fucking crime scene, right?
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because most of the house is taped off and you know, they're all these warning signals and they can't step here.
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I can't step there and the only rooms that I still have left are sort of three or four rooms that have proven to be developed mentally safe spaces for me.
• 19:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that means that most of my life energy is actually now invested into either not stepping into one of the quote unquote bad rooms or making sure that other people do not see that I have these bad rooms, right?
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's all impression management becomes incredibly performative.
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: and there's no, my life energy doesn't flow anymore.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the inner work that I feel we have to do assources is to re-enhabit, rediscover first, and then re-enhabit all of these inner rooms, right, and to accept all of our humanity.
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because when I'm able to do that, I will be
• 20:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: much less triggered by other people and dare in our rooms.
• 20:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can take much more ownership and accountability for how I show up in the world and going back to your conduit metaphor.
• 20:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I become a conduit for information that flows through this inner house.
• 20:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I feel is the practice that we need to do as sources.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Beautifully articulated and it evokes in me a kind of
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if I think about, if I zoom out a little bit and I look at our world and, you know, a theme on our podcast has been the transition we're in, which is of course we don't really know where we're going, you can't say.
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: We say where we're going to end up, but it seems like we're transitioning out of a kind of dominant materialist paradigm, which is
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: you know atomized experience into fixed parts and brought with it amazing scientific innovations, but perhaps disconnected as from certain creative collaborative capacities and that there's a journey
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: process oriented experience where, you know, there's a people are now interested in doing this inner work, integrative work and a tuning to this field in ways that could create the kind of innovations and
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: ways of collaborating that help us meet some of the challenges we're facing.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm sure people have been doing this for thousands of years at the same time too.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I don't want to denigrate what's the amazing things that have already happened and the lineages we've inherited as well.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, actually on that note, I just over the weekend, I watched something that brought me to tears.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I watched an interview between Mandami and Bernie Sanders, right, and they actually filmed this before Mandami won the elections to be the next New York mayor.
• 22:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Mandami just interviewed Sanders about his experience of being a male for eight years himself.
• 22:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, how he ran his campaign back then and what they ended up doing to make him so successful, what his recipe was.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, of course, it was really not rocket science.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of listened to the community, go talk to the people on the ground, change the things that paint them the most, you know, like childcare, like actually cleaning the streets and the winter for especially in poor neighborhoods so that people can get to work.
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a, you know, a bunch of really
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: simple things like creating a music festival involving artists, you know, creating spaces for the youth to meet and to connect.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so he lists a number of things and it brought me to tears for two reasons, because one was that I thought, oh my god, we've already
• 23:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: had all of these spaces, right?
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: How come that something that takes eight years to build is then dismantled within six months, right?
• 23:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And why do we continue doing this?
• 23:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's due to lack of inner work, right?
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's when, when against all the evidence that that makes for happier societies, I'm triggered by my own insecurity in my own greed.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: then I dismantle things that work in this way.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: But also it brought me to tears because I thought, well, it's been done before, so it can be done again.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we have the tools, we know how this works, and they're examples all over the world for communities, for organizations, for initiatives that are run in different ways, we just have to use them.
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, beautiful, which is hopeful, you know, because it's like we know about this, it's within our culture.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just clear a couple of questions and then we might pivot to money and then look at the connection.
• 24:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm presuming therefore,
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: You think it's a good idea that the sourcing energy, the sourcing person in a project is able to own that role.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: And maybe sometimes people don't own that role and this points to the inner work and that they create the conditions
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: whereby they can attune to that sourcing sense of sourcing as it moves through them.
• 25:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: And wondering about how do we know when we're tuning in to sourcing?
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I guess the answer is, you know, because it, you know, it's just self-evident.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit like falling in love, right?
• 25:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, how do you know that you fall in in love?
• 25:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you just kind of know, right?
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 25:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 25:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And there's a sense of, like, knowing inspiration, passion, creativity, all those words, point to that sense of being a tune to it.
• 25:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And could you say something about, you know, transference of sourcing.
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you said, like, there are ways in which that
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: can not happen properly and, you know, for example, a new CEO steps into an organization.
• 26:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's important in transferring that sourcing properly.
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, again, the magic word, of course, is consciousness.
• 26:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the more conscious this process is handled, the better it is for the entire field.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So quite often, what we see in organizations is that source is actually not transferred in the best way that succession hasn't really taken place.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the source might leave.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So for example, a very public example was
• 26:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Steve Jobs was first ousted from Apple, but he still held source, so he might have not had the majority shares anymore.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: He might have in the power hierarchy of the organization.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He might have not played a role for quite some time, but in terms of the energetic transmission.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: for what this company needed to be, it was still him.
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it also points to what we said earlier, you can be an amazing source without actually being a good leader, right?
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the stories, I mean, I never, obviously, never met the guy personally, but I think they're definitely some shadow sides in his leadership because there were some aspects of his inner house that were not discusable, that were not, yeah,
• 27:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was little awareness about how he was as a person showing up in that space, but he was still an amazing source.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's maybe something to know as well as that leadership and source are not necessarily connected.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they aren't.
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: They aren't, right?
• 27:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you can be a source without being a leader, and you can be a leader without being a source.
• 27:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, of course, ideally you are a source who is invested in developing amazing leadership skills.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: But to you back to your question of transmission, when transmission takes place, the most beautiful way is to do it with a ritual, right?
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to really make sure that both the original source and the receiving source
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: The shared understanding about what is the unchangeable part about what I'm handing over.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in many ways, we would say it's most deeply connected to the values of the founding source.
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And secondary, it's about the vision or the product or what exactly this needs to be.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: and we can see this, for example, very beautifully in a number of Japanese companies.
• 28:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Many of them, you know, I think of the thousand oldest companies on the planet 500 Japanese.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they have really figured out this transmission of source.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you make something that lasts over generations?
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: The values are all still very much alive in these organizations, but they might have pivoted entirely what kind of product or service they are offering today.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, right there is something about the transmission that is unchangeable and then there is a lot about the transmission that is changeable and that needs to change over time because of changing conditions.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Another way source can be transmitted is if a source just sort of drops a bit on, right?
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that sometimes happens where, you know, I might go, I'm just, I'm just done.
• 29:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to do this anymore.
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I drop everything I go and I know that this happened if I really don't care anymore, right?
• 29:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: If it dies, if it lives, I don't mind.
• 29:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then in this case, if a person from within the original field picks up the
• 29:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: They are actually now beginning to build something new, right?
• 29:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it may look as if they're continuing something because the field still exists and the infrastructure still exists, but from an energetic perspective, if the original source really dropped the button and you pick it up, then now it's your creation, right?
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it might still be informed by things that you've known from the old system, but it's really a new birth.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then there are a lot of instances in, again, and family owned organizations in particular, where let's say, you know, grandmother or grandfather was the original source for this initiative, then they hand over the CO chair to somebody from the next generation, daughter, son, son relative.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: but they never actually handed over source.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you notice in this field when an important decision has to be made, everybody sort of still turns to the original source and goes, what would they say about this?
• 30:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in these cases, then what often happens is that only the next generation actually receives the full transmission of source because the original source is just to tie it to carry on.
• 30:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it nearly skips a generation.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 31:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there are these different ways of how this can happen, but, you know, the more intentional, it is being orchestrated, the more beautiful for the entire system, and, you know, and the first and the sort of trends, trends, well, successor souls included, of course.
• 31:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I imagine therefore having a conversation about source in an organization or in a project is fundamentally important because I think implicitly a lot of people may recognize what you're talking about but an explicit conversation about it.
• 31:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Could unleash, and this is where my question goes, could unleash incredible capabilities that, you know, I'm part of that conversation is acknowledging source, source acknowledging their source, and maybe seeing where they were not able to own source where they're abdicating,
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: and and also that there are and I would this is also part of the question there are other sources that could be their inside of a project if it's big enough you know that's where my my thinking goes that you know what do you see so I'm at anyway I'm asking a couple of questions and it sounds like what do you see happening when
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: The kinks around source are kind of smoothed out.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's clarity there's plugging in.
• 32:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And when multiple sources can be acknowledged inside of projects,
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So maybe let me pre-empted with something that can often be a pushback, especially now in, you know, newer organizations, newer initiatives that if we looked at them from a spiral dynamics perspective, a very much driven by sort of a green meme, right?
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's often resistance to the source idea there for, you know, for all the right reasons because there is a fear that we're just reintroducing the patriarchy through the back door.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 33:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, I would really like to invite a perspective of, I don't think at all, that's the case.
• 33:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason why I don't think it's the case is patriarchy.
• 33:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And sort of the traditional hierarchies that we see in traditional organizations, they're built on a maximum of power over.
• 33:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have to do something just because I say so.
• 33:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: A source driven field is built on the maximum of power with.
• 33:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the idea is also the only way to grow my field is if I am attractive in my message to other sources who want to join me in this endeavor and who at least partially feel they can realize their own life vision underneath my umbrella.
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Edda doesn't mean that all of their creative energy has to be poured into this field, but at least some of their creative energy.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if they join me in this capacity as sources, they become within the logic of this sacred order, what we would call specific sources or sub-sources,
• 34:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: who are then responsible for something they are sourcing within my field or underneath my umbrella, whichever image works for you.
• 34:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then my role as a global source is to give them all the freedom that they need to realize their vision.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to my earlier point, if my pathology is flip flopping
• 34:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a foolproof way to alienate sources, right?
• 34:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because the one thing that unites most sources that I know is they have a vision, they don't want to be micromanaged, they want to have access ideally to the resources that they need to realize that vision and they have very value-strillin, right?
• 35:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if we align
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: enough around our values like if I can portray to you what are my founding values and you go, you know, actually that tracks like there's there's enough in in my value set to know that this is a good home for me for the time being, then you will happily realize your vision under my umbrella.
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then maybe, you know, just to name the other potential position you can have in a field,
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: is the role of a helper, and a helper is a person who can also be equally inspired by the vision of the source and really believe, and this is an amazing endeavor, that's something that should be in the world.
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to support this, but I come in more with this energy of let me understand exactly what you need me to do so that I can do exactly those things.
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't have this grand vision for what this needs to be on my own.
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to get clear instructions so that I know, do I hit the mark or do I not hit the mark?
• 36:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And because of my current position in life and maybe I just have a new family, whatever it is, I might also be at a point where don't have the internal capacity right now to access this source energy.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or I don't feel called to do it in this particular field.
• 36:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: To not discount help us but say help us are amazing people and we need them left and right.
• 36:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And also there is fluidity in which role I can take in which part of the initiative.
• 36:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I might be sourcing a particular sub initiative.
• 36:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at the same time show up as a helper in the sub initiative of another source and vice versa.
• 36:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 36:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So these are not fixed and I would say each of us, you know, that's where we connect again to the inner work piece because we also sometimes need to do inner work to be good help us, right?
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And to find it within us to submit ourselves fully and with joy under the leadership and the vision of another person.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's also a quality.
• 37:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Before I ask you about, I want to go first to the connection between source and money, and then maybe we'll impact money in that.
• 37:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: But what do you think is the most important question around this whole topic?
• 37:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: People can ask themselves right now.
• 37:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Around source and money?
• 37:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Around source, first of all.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, around, you know, yeah.
• 37:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, around source, I would say,
• 37:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: What you need to become aware of is your relationship with authority and power.
• 37:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And because that's often where friction arises, because most of us, the way we've been socialized, we have at some point or other made negative experiences with power and authority.
• 38:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, namely in the shape of, we were subjected to a power over situation.
• 38:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were subjected to people who had abused their power and influence over us.
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at some point in our development, we either made the decision, I will never be like that.
• 38:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So going back to the metaphor of the inner house, we've closed off the rooms within ourselves where we have authority in power, because we find them...
• 38:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: hugely undesirable, or we have become copycats, right?
• 38:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we sort of made the conclusion well, clearly, to get ahead in life at all, this is what you need to exercise, right?
• 38:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's where you need to go.
• 38:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where I think we see a lot of sort of the toxic leadership that is popping up now, especially with the permission of the Trump administration to move into that space,
• 39:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: fully, right?
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's having a global ripple effect of all of these leaders who now say, well, see, I'm glad, you know, the DIEB work, inclusive stuff is over.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get back to business, and who step into their power and authority rooms, but without,
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: any connection to the balancing rooms of being powerless, being submissive, you know, having that to balance them.
• 39:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I would say, I always think of a lying ate, right?
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's an infinity symbol.
• 39:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the inner rooms and the house that I explore with my clients, I always explore too.
• 39:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the polarity.
• 39:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if we explore in your power room, we also explore in your disempowered room.
• 39:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, so there's there's something about that as a starting point for reflection around source that I find quite helpful Yeah, yeah, and following you know like you said helping that if I You know, it's like with my yes and my no if I don't land in my No around a decision then I can't inhabit my yes is fully so
• 40:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, right?
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So and to name maybe a few more polarities.
• 40:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yes and nose and hugely important one leading following inclusion, exclusion.
• 40:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So so all of these come in pairs and it's really, really important to realize, to allow source energy to flow both sides of a polarity need to be accessible for me and joyful for me.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: As long as one of them is off limits and taboo,
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's, and you mentioned Annie's book, which makes me think of money, and the connection between source and money.
• 40:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go to the connection first.
• 40:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why, what's important about the connection between source and money and not make the need to say what you feel money here as well?
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I know you write beautifully on that.
• 41:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: But what's, what's important about this connection?
• 41:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think the, you know, the first connection that most people have experience is that the money often shows up as a problem for a source, right?
• 41:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: They feel if I only had the money, then I could realize X, right?
• 41:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's where we often fall into the first trap, which we now see a lot, at least in the teams that I'm supporting, you know, where a source says money is an issue.
• 41:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let me find investors.
• 41:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: then they bring in investors and then the shit show unfolds right because suddenly people who brought in money feel they have a right to make decisions so they override the wisdom of the source and you have power struggles sometimes the source is driven out of their field entirely um you know it creates all kinds of unhealthy environments so you know I want to quote Peter here again
• 41:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: who always says something to founders.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says, listen, money is never the problem and it's never the solution.
• 42:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if we move in our understanding beyond this fixation on money, we actually realize the reason why people join a field is because of a vision.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's because of who you are as a source, it's because they feel inspired to contribute with and without money.
• 42:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you wanted to build a source-driven field, that might also be a healthy starting point to not pick the people who first start with the negotiations around their fee or their shares or whatever it might be, but who start with a conversation about inspiration.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that might be a good starting point to build something healthier.
• 42:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then realize money is one of those amazing entry points into your in our house because I have not met another topic yet that points you as quickly towards your still locked rooms as money.
• 43:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So money is the last frontier.
• 43:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I often say in terms of our
• 43:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's the conversation we need to have, right?
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And right now, I'm, you know, part of different networks with really amazing individuals.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in one of them, you know, there's this, a lot of sort of ex-finance people in that group.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some people with significance amount amounts of wealth and sort of, you know, financial abundance in their lives.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they much rather talk about incredibly woo-woo-woo stuff, you know, from telepathy to alien transmission to aesthetics and what that means for our life today, but the one thing we don't talk about is money, right?
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's where the, you know, the transformation stops in a way, right?
• 43:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you ask them, would you be willing to invest in an endeavor because you believe in it, but without getting a return on investment financially, most of them will say no.
• 44:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So our addiction to money, what we feel we need to have in terms of money for it to be enough, what we feel financial success as a person in society, if we don't unwrap that, they will forever be some rooms in our house that are of limits and that blocks your source energy.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's, you know, I'm just reminded of the quote I shared with you, and I've forgotten who said this, but, you know, the quote is something like, it's easier to see the end of the world than the end of capitalism.
• 44:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I find that to be true, and there's something, because
• 44:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, I don't want to come here and attack capitalism outright.
• 44:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, there are issues with our current economic system without doubt.
• 45:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: but it's a construct as well.
• 45:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a human-made construct where our planet is something entirely different.
• 45:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's governed by laws of nature and there are finite resources and consequences of our actions and yet still are unable to make certain decisions that ethically morally are
• 45:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, this is such a rich topic.
• 45:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel there's so many questions again?
• 45:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: If we stay on our own more high level, do you feel that it's like becoming time now?
• 45:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: for us to examine money in a close away.
• 45:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel like people are opening to that?
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, again, excuse me for adding just one last.
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like maybe are we getting to a place where we recognize that we've constructed money in a specific way, with a, it's like a deep belief, a structure of society, and we can take perspective on it.
• 46:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, absolutely.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's time.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I see signs that this is a conversation that people are more excited to have.
• 46:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, I want to quote somebody here who I really admire as name is Christian Feleba and he is an Austrian economist who
• 46:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Developed something that is called economy for the common good, and it's a whole model that could potentially replace Capitalism, right, and he says when he travels to economic forums and economic summits and all of that You know those kind of events he's always met with he use an act uses an acronym
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Tina.
• 46:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there is no alternative to capitalism, right?
• 46:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he says we counteracted with the acronym TAPAS, they are plenty of alternative solutions.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he says the economy for the common good in the model that he developed is just one of them.
• 47:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Another one might be Donut economics, right?
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they are plenty of models now who say,
• 47:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is not the end of economics, but it's the end of looking at what do we need to consider when we talk about an economics that also includes our shared resources, the comments, our planet, the health of this planet, the health of other species, and doesn't just write them
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: that are unsustainable in the long run.
• 47:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I do think we need to open our viewpoint and really research what are other ways of being in exchange with one another where everybody has the right and the capacity to flourish.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because what we're seeing right now is sort of the
• 47:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know that maybe hopefully the inflection point of hypercapitalism where the gap between the halves and the have not has reached a really painful and sustainable level.
• 48:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know my
• 48:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: word of warning there is I actually I don't know who came up with this metaphor but I really like it and somebody once said it's like we're all on this big ocean cruise right and this cruise ship has a million different levels it's enormous right some of them are like floating cities now if you're sitting on the upper deck in your you know amazing ocean view
• 48:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sweet, right?
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have a different viewpoint and life looks very comfortable from up there.
• 48:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if the ship is hitting an iceberg, right?
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: The first people who will notice and who will die are the people under lower decks in the engine room.
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's where the water will enter first.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: But make no mistake.
• 49:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're still sitting on the same ship.
• 49:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 49:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if this tanker goes down, you're going to drown as well.
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's, you know, sort of the minimum reason why we should all be interested in finding alternative models because this ship will sink.
• 49:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if people in the lower ranks are going to drown, nobody on the upper decks that will be safe and in the long run.
• 49:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So how do we develop a deeper compassion for one another and a deeper interest in making sure that everybody has a dignified life?
• 49:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: on in all places on the planet.
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the new economic models out there, there's some really amazing entry points into that, right?
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Some really, really smart people, much smarter than I have come up with amazing ways of thinking through this and and practicing it already at different points on different points on the planet.
• 49:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, the one
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Viewpoint that very few of them have yet embraced is that perhaps to really make these new models work We first need to understand and examine our own personal relationship with money because if we don't understand that We are going to replicate the same shadows into new systems and I think one good example is for example, you know when
• 50:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: When blockchain came about and Bitcoin was on the rise, every, you know, some people really had this idea like this will set us free, right?
• 50:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: We will be free of the, you know, the banks of the national reserves, all of those things.
• 50:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can do our own thing, and we will democratize access to financial flows.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: But what happened is that it just became another financial instrument, another way to get rich without working, right, another way to play the game and to win.
• 50:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So our greed has found a wonderful way into these new systems as well.
• 51:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think we will continue doing that until we understand on a deeper level what money actually is.
• 51:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go there now, because the societal systemic nature of money is incredibly complex and, you know, beyond my scope of expertise by quite some way in terms of being able to justify it being the, you know, the podcast host, but the
• 51:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: that what you just pointed to is like that are in a relationship to money and what is money.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go there.
• 51:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: So what is money to you?
• 51:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then we can explore, yeah, some of the common the patterns you see around people's struggle, you know, patterns with money basically.
• 51:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So perhaps, you know, again, to sort of dip into history and into the source of this, as I mentioned at the very beginning, it was again Peter Koonik who started sort of this kind of exploration into what is money and the work that is needed to heal our relationship with money.
• 52:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when Peter worked with organizations and individuals, he was just flabbergasted to see, you know, just this minute, we had dialogue about the vision for an organization, the future for the planet, the, you know, next generations.
• 52:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about values and, you know, all of these amazing things and we're
• 52:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Viving together in the best way possible and then suddenly everything shifted once money hit the table and once money hit the table People started getting into arguments They started talking about return on investment.
• 52:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: They started to talk about budgets and what's in the budget and what's not in the budget You know and everybody energetically contracted and he's like what the hell just happened?
• 52:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we just had these amazing conversations about visions and you know and changing the world and now we're back to budgets and and return on investment
• 52:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, he became interested in the question you just asked me, well, what is money?
• 53:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when we asked that question, if you have a room of 30 people and you were to write down everybody's responses on a flip chart, you have 40 different responses.
• 53:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And on this flip chart, you'll have everything from...
• 53:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: money is the root of all evil to money is freedom from, you know, people with money destroy the planets to money security, right, to money is love even.
• 53:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you have all of these varying responses and if all of that is money, it brings us back to the originating question of, well, but what is money?
• 53:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what Peter discovered on his trajectory of researching money was money is actually only one
• 53:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: money is a projection screen, right?
• 53:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Money is a human invention that we created to serve a specific purpose.
• 53:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it has sort of overcome us in not serving this purpose anymore, but actually ruling our every moment of every day.
• 54:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: It rules our relationships from personal to business relationships.
• 54:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It rules everything that we do over the course of a day, our work
• 54:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: But why, right, if money isn't real, if we invented it, couldn't we tell a different story?
• 54:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can, but we need to understand what we're projecting onto this projection screen that is money.
• 54:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he discovered that we essentially have three types of different projections.
• 54:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So firstly, what we're projecting onto money is human stuff.
• 54:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're projecting human qualities onto
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: this projection screen of money and we of course also project human qualities onto things other than money, right?
• 54:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: That could be our partners and our relationships.
• 54:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: It could be our boss.
• 54:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It could be institutions.
• 54:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: It can really really be anything because human life is one big projection.
• 55:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, since money is something that influences all of our aspects of life,
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing to recognize is, what is it that I'm projecting?
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Human stuff, human qualities, because money is neither dirty nor as money free.
• 55:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bright money is just a hammer and then it looks for a nail, right?
• 55:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you can either use it to bash in somebody's head or you can use it to hang up a picture.
• 55:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So money is really what you want it to be, money is what you see in it.
• 55:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what Peter discovered in this investigation of sort of, you know, he really came from a Colgust of Jung Perspective looking at projections and Shadowwork and all of that, he found that they're in principle three main projection types.
• 55:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So one projection type is people who have unconscious, positive projections and money.
• 55:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you really dig deep, they really do think money is freedom, money is security, money is love.
• 56:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, if that's your deepest health belief, then what essentially happened is you have dissociated your own human capacity,
• 56:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: to be free, to be secure, to be love, and you projected it outwards onto money.
• 56:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And now the obvious conclusion is to have all of these things you need to have money.
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the shadow that you drop into is the shadow of greed, because money now becomes a target, but unfortunately it's a moving target.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it's just yesterday having a conversation with a bunch of investors and wealth managers and sort of inheritors of family offices.
• 56:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of them quoted a study that was done with millionaires and billionaires, where they were asked, what is enough, right?
• 56:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: When do you feel you have enough?
• 56:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the answer, in all cases, was minimum double of what they currently had or triple
• 57:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: regardless of what they had.
• 57:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that tells us that the moment you're approaching a sum that once was sort of the, you know, the golden number for your exit where you could then finally be free into what you love to do and not worry about making money anymore, that target shifts.
• 57:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's literally like the carrot that somebody tied to your head, right, and you're running after this carrot, but you can never reach it.
• 57:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, if you have positive projections in the hamster, the carrot is tied to your head and you run faster and faster and faster.
• 57:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And what you're actually producing is sort of a vicious cycle, because now you're often trapped in a way of working that doesn't make you happy.
• 57:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you don't love what you're doing.
• 57:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: The promise is that one day you'll have enough money to make that all stop.
• 57:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Step out of the hamster, we'll undo what you love.
• 57:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not happening because of the character being tied to your head.
• 57:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what you do instead is you put on band-aids, and the band-aids you put on things you can consume.
• 58:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the more you consume, the faster the hamster wheel has to turn, because suddenly you have, you know, two cows and two houses and, you know, whatever, two, I say, you need to support, whatever that is.
• 58:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you can't get out of the wheel anymore.
• 58:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, in that interacts with people who have unconscious negative projections on money.
• 58:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you really dig deep into their psyche, they would say,
• 58:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, money is awful, money is dirty, money is the root of all evil, people with money destroy the planet, people with money are all layers and manipulators.
• 58:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, if that's your deepest help, believe about money, you don't run after money, you actually push money away, right?
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you're constantly in the mine as because a part of you is busy with keeping all of that away from yourself, because you do not want to be any of these things and not be near any of these things.
• 58:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So your shadow is discussed in a way, right?
• 59:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's sort of the holier than though attitude to money.
• 59:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you don't want this evil thing in your life.
• 59:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the sad movement you create is actually that you push the money right into the hands of the first type.
• 59:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I described of people who have positive projections on a money because they can't have enough of this substance.
• 59:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so you're serving them just well.
• 59:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we have a third type, we lovingly call them the washing machine because in this sort of spin cycle, they sort of flip flop between greed and disgust because they have a little bit of both.
• 59:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: They have some unconscious positive projections on money and some unconscious negative projections on money.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they often end up being impact investors if they have some money.
• 59:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 59:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because they now say, I want to do good with the the money that I've made and
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: you know, I do want to change the world, but only as long as not some insecurity is triggered in them because the moment that happens, they flip up to the other side and suddenly it's all about the bottom line and their return on investment.
• 1:00:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: In my line of work, I don't know if you've experienced that when I support clients who have investors, that's often the experience they make because they have this jackal hide,
• 1:00:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: kind of situation where they never quite know who's the invest I'm going to talk to tomorrow is it the guy who wants to support my vision?
• 1:00:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or is it the guy who asked me about my return and investment and puts on the thumb screws to make me work harder and faster?
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 1:00:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So all of these patterns, the positive projections, the negative projections, the mix projections,
• 1:00:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: As long as we're unaware of them, they actually wreck havoc with our lives, and as long as we're unaware of them, no matter what new system we build, we're always going to reintroduce the same shadows in the new system.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: they're incredibly powerful articulations of these different types, you know, a different types of people.
• 1:00:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there, do you have a view of someone who is free from those before we talk about the path towards
• 1:01:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, towards that freedom, is it, you know, is there a view of someone who has a kind of liberate it?
• 1:01:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how you would put it, how you would call that, but they've, they've done that in a work and now they're in a different place.
• 1:01:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I don't think they are very many people like that yet, but there are many people like me who I would say I'm well on my path, but I still do get triggered at times, right, but I would say the, you know, a person who's truly free, they don't mind either way.
• 1:01:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: in a way, right?
• 1:01:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're equally happy with having money and spending money and saving money as they are with not having money.
• 1:01:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they have undone the addiction to money that we've all been injected with by the nature of the capitalist system we were raised in and it is by the way
• 1:02:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: from countries where they were raised in socialism or, yeah, mainly, I would say socialism, because they sometimes still do hold a slightly different perspective, right?
• 1:02:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they haven't been drinking quite the same cool aid as people, you know, who grew up in,
• 1:02:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the democratized West and societies that have been driven by capitalism.
• 1:02:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there are people on the planet who hold different positions now, but for the most part, I would say, we have an unhealthy addiction to money and somebody who's really done the inner work fully just doesn't have this addiction to money anymore.
• 1:02:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're really free to see a hammer as a hammer and go, I can do anything with a hammer.
• 1:02:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's play.
• 1:02:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't see the fulfillment of their purpose as tied to money, because they are on this path either way, sometimes with money, and sometimes without money, and they're not bothered.
• 1:03:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 1:03:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: because you know, a common in our field in particular of seeing this, and in business, you know, that this kind of idea that, and I think there's a truth to this, but it's complicated, that if you create something of value, you know, if you have skills and you'll make money from it, your people will see that and they'll want it, and that's a measure of your, that's a measure of your,
• 1:03:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: maturity and development and quality and you know I can see a truth to that and it's probably drives innovation but I can see how it's it's complicated and this perspective that you're bringing is not acknowledged at all in that view it's you know partly driven by our unconscious beliefs around what what having money is you know um
• 1:04:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, therefore, could you talk about a little bit about the path of liver, you know, how, one?
• 1:04:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, awareness is key, you know, being aware, am I, do I have a positive projection, negative projection or a mixed projection?
• 1:04:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, is it, you know, what modalities would be helpful here?
• 1:04:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is it, you know, could you do things like parts, work, or, you know, kind of integrative modalities that help divest, no pun intended, divest the kind of attachment and identification with those projections.
• 1:04:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:04:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I do think they're different paths to get there.
• 1:04:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I myself have been trained in a modelate called voice dialogue, which has some overlap with IFS.
• 1:05:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they're different ways we can approach paths work that can definitely help.
• 1:05:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: However, the money work process that piece of a clinic developed, I would say is a little bit of an inner paths work on steroids because it's much faster.
• 1:05:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it speaks to the same principle, because I would say any modality that works essentially does the same thing, which is it opens up rooms in our house that we could previously not step into, right?
• 1:05:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So with money, what we're doing is, let me give you a very easy example.
• 1:05:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if I have a positive projection on money,
• 1:05:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: and I would say, you know, money is freedom, then the sentence around money, I take it and I replace the word money or even people with money and I replace it with the word I.
• 1:05:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 1:06:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So positive projection might be money's freedom.
• 1:06:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then I try saying, I am free.
• 1:06:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I notice, and now this is where the process begins.
• 1:06:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: I notice is there an embodied reaction to that sentence.
• 1:06:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do I notice happens in my body when I say the sentence?
• 1:06:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: If this sentence has resonance in my biography, I will feel something.
• 1:06:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: either sort of a feeling of letting go and opening up or a feeling of contraction somewhere disbelief, maybe even numbness, so different reactions can show up.
• 1:06:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Same with a negative projection.
• 1:06:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: If I say, money is the root of all evil.
• 1:06:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would do the same thing.
• 1:06:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: I replace the word money with the word I. I go, I am the root of all evil.
• 1:06:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I begin to see is that a room in meat that
• 1:06:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because you could argue as a human being, you know, that's true.
• 1:06:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 1:06:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're the people who are screwing up the planet right now.
• 1:07:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I am the root of all evil.
• 1:07:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can I be comfortable with that?
• 1:07:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we move into finding the polarity.
• 1:07:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, if I am free is one side of the polarity, then how does it feel to say, I'm unfree?
• 1:07:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that something I can be comfortable with?
• 1:07:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And likewise, with the negative projection, if the sentence was, I am the root of all evil, can I say, I am the root of all good, or whatever the polarity happens to be for me, right?
• 1:07:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so the process of money work is one.
• 1:07:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: where we use language as an entry point into a bodily reaction, sort of a emotional and body reaction.
• 1:07:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we test that with the client, and then there's a certain process to begin to open up the rooms.
• 1:07:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a little bit different for positive and negative projections, but that would maybe go to far at this point.
• 1:07:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the outcome is,
• 1:08:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: that you not only recognize that you have both spaces in you, but you're able to recognize the value that comes out of both spaces, even the space that you've denied yourself.
• 1:08:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because you felt, you know, this is not who I am or who I want to be.
• 1:08:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in a sense, there's a metabolization of
• 1:08:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: the embodiment of a particular projection through surfacing it into awareness, you know, owning that projection.
• 1:08:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then,
• 1:08:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: feeling the resonance of that ownership, you know, and that bring it into awareness is what is able to kind of liberate, you know, you begin to alkalize or metabolize the frequency of that projection.
• 1:08:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:09:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Until a point where
• 1:09:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, neither sentence that describes one of the two polarities is triggering to you anymore.
• 1:09:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know that it's integrated when you go, Okay, I'm the root of all evil.
• 1:09:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, and I'm the root of all good.
• 1:09:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so in both feel absolutely fine in my system, then you know, these two rooms have been reintegrated, they're inhabitable again.
• 1:09:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And depending on context, I can step into one or the other and leverage sort of what power lies in either.
• 1:09:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the process.
• 1:09:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: And to me, this is just a beautiful pointing to shadow,
• 1:09:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm struck by how, you know, coming back to the connection between source and money in a sense like there's such a beautiful marriage because like, as you described, you know, money is just so ubiquitous.
• 1:10:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just, you know, so embedded within our experience of being human,
• 1:10:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: and therefore it's allowing us to open up these rooms, you know, and as we do so, we're able to, you know, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, um um, um um, um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um um
• 1:10:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, it could create, it could unleash more source into the world.
• 1:10:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it could unleash more source.
• 1:10:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: energy overall, and I also feel it really is the next frontier of our spiritual development, right, to really get to a point of being able to access my full potential, money, at least at this point in our shared developmental process, is that next frontier.
• 1:11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I really, really, you know, I'm loving to see that this work is gaining more traction right now, that there are more and more people sort of realizing
• 1:11:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: how essential, how fundamental money and source work are.
• 1:11:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And even just a couple of weeks ago, Peter and I did a, if you want top team process for the founders of the inner development goals, because they realized that is actually the hummus on which all of the inner development goals rest, right?
• 1:11:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is the foundation of money and source.
• 1:11:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if they don't touch that level, none of the other work really takes root.
• 1:11:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I do feel the time has come for people to really embrace that and explore that.
• 1:11:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the coaches that I have seen that I have trained, I feel that they work as gained so much richness once they tapped into these sort of core layers of development.
• 1:12:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: It does feel, as you articulated, that we've reached the end, or we're moving through the particular phase in our cycle around capitalism, and that that's making money louder, you know, and if I'm thinking of people like Nate Higgins who has talked about the
• 1:12:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: actually that, you know, our financial systems are a bit of a smokescreen on top of energy, you know, it's that our access to energy that's allowed us to become incredibly wealthy, and that the kind of...
• 1:12:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Returns on extracting that energy are starting to diminish, so that's going to have quite an impact on our economic prosperity and, you know, it's not really clear exactly what impact it will have.
• 1:13:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: But if you listen to Nate, it's pretty, it's pretty damn sobering.
• 1:13:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:13:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah, I see it becoming a louder and louder topic.
• 1:13:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: And there are, he names positive.
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: benefit so that it will force, it could, it could, because it's all who knows what other things might emerge, but it could force a kind of deep reconsideration of what it means to be human back towards, you know, particular values of connection and, absolutely, to just name that, the underlying vision that Peter has shared with
• 1:13:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: with the world is actually that we shift from what he calls the normal regime where we're essentially all trapped in our own version of the hamster wheel that I described before that is driven forward and faster and faster by consumption and sort of the, you know, trying to fill a gap of meaning.
• 1:14:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: through money that we make, and instead he says we need to step into what he calls the natural regime, which is very much sort of a regenerative way of living and being.
• 1:14:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: That looks at, you know, what are truly my needs?
• 1:14:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: What brings me meaning in life and to start from that point and then see the money I need to make to live that kind of life is probably much more modest than the money I needed
• 1:14:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, the quote unquote normal regime, because in a natural regime, I'm nourished like wealth means something entirely different, right?
• 1:14:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I read to find what wealth means to me.
• 1:14:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I feel, you know, you know, maybe something to share with your community as well that we are stepping into now for the next.
• 1:14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: rounds of CU money and CU sourced that the programs that we have around this, we have decided to step away even from the sliding scale model that we had in the past.
• 1:15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've always worked with you know, not everything needs to well know how to put this.
• 1:15:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: That fairness doesn't play in everybody paying the same price because we all have very different capacity financially,
• 1:15:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: factors into what fairs to us, but we now taking it a step further and beyond an initial registration fee, we actually make the process of eventually coming to the right number for you and for us.
• 1:15:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is a shared process, right?
• 1:15:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we really have conversations about money and then one sort of celebration in which that happens in a big way over a video conference where we share numbers.
• 1:15:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: We get naked, we get transparent, we talk about needs and we talk about fears and we talk about once.
• 1:15:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we come to the number that is right for each of us in the end.
• 1:15:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: together create a new money story.
• 1:16:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And for us, that's an experiment too.
• 1:16:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I feel we've done all the foundational work to make us uniquely qualified to have that conversation with our participants.
• 1:16:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm really excited to see what that leads us, right?
• 1:16:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because that is in need-based economy that moves entirely away from this sort of supply and demand logic that we've been indoctrinated with.
• 1:16:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this has been such a rich conversation, Nadia, and I think I'd love to, maybe this is a place where we draw it to a close, and you could also share about more of where we can find out about your work and what you're creating, and before that I wouldn't, is there anything you would like to end by saying you've shed so much, you know, I've been so generous,
• 1:16:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'd love to share something, something that I came across recently that maybe puts all of this and the wonderful framework before we started, you sort of grounded us in a bigger vision.
• 1:17:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder if you want to repeat that, what you said with to me, because then I can link my thing to that.
• 1:17:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, great.
• 1:17:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I will.
• 1:17:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I will.
• 1:17:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not, it's interesting because I know this I feel a bit vulnerable about it,
• 1:17:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, I often start with, so this points to some of my inner work around potentially around sourcing, actually around, I have this caveat of saying, I don't mean this to sound grandiose, but actually if I put that aside, if I love that part, just acknowledge that part of me, my highest intention for this podcast is that, um,
• 1:17:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: that we align with, we open to sourcing energy to the flow of the evolutionary impulse that moves through human beings, that moves through beings in general and through life, and that it's a way of life evolving between two people.
• 1:18:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you can feel that.
• 1:18:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can feel, I, it's not with every podcast, but I feel it with those, and it's like a sense of,
• 1:18:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: source to use the language.
• 1:18:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's my intention for these podcasts.
• 1:18:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's part of the evolution of consciousness.
• 1:18:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I thought that was so beautiful for you to share that and to give it that context.
• 1:18:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I wanted to share something with you at the beginning, but perhaps that's a good closing point.
• 1:18:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I, you know, I would call myself a spiritual person with, you know, sort of quotation marks, because I never completely knew what, what do I mean by that, right?
• 1:18:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I've never followed any particular spiritual school.
• 1:18:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've never really,
• 1:18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: connected to most spiritual teachers that are out there.
• 1:18:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've found value in some aspects of them, but often the whole guru dumb around them.
• 1:18:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: They always aspects that didn't fully resonate with me.
• 1:19:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then recently a friend of mine to Morgan introduced me to a spiritual teacher by the name of Tim Freak, and we can share.
• 1:19:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very familiar with his work.
• 1:19:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do.
• 1:19:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love what he's bringing.
• 1:19:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very important.
• 1:19:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, in a nutshell, with my still very limited understanding of his model, but he speaks to something that you put into the space when we started, because he said, you know, contrary to also what I have believed and sort of propagated in the 34 books that I wrote, and he did write 34 books before this one.
• 1:19:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: He said, I used to believe, you know, in the beginning there was God in a way what all the
• 1:19:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: The spiritual models teach us is, you know, we've lost this connection to God and our whole process of enlightenment is to find our way back to that and to leave our ego behind and merge again with this oneness.
• 1:19:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, my,
• 1:19:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: My understanding after years and years and years of investigation and studying is actually now quite different.
• 1:20:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: He said, I do believe in the beginning there was one, but there wasn't an intelligence, there wasn't a God, it was just sort of an undifferentiated
• 1:20:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: emergence of life.
• 1:20:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the process, he says, the process of evolution away understand it now is actually a process of unfolding a process of becoming a process of increasing differentiation.
• 1:20:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of these strands of differentiation of life is what we ask human beings.
• 1:20:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in our process of differentiation,
• 1:20:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: We didn't just develop our own senses, but we also developed psyche, which for him is another sense which allows us to be in relation to our inner processes that are running all the way all the time in the background.
• 1:20:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we can have a relationship to ourselves.
• 1:20:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can make ourselves object of our investigation our inquiry.
• 1:21:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he says the next sense that he sees is being developed
• 1:21:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: a size sense, right?
• 1:21:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the ability to sense ourselves and to sense others.
• 1:21:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, now, what I think happens when people go for example in these profound states of meditation, and they meet something that they feel is God or is love.
• 1:21:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says, I think that's what we're beginning to co-create.
• 1:21:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: through si-sensing, right?
• 1:21:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're moving from a place of being an individual to a place where we can experience ourselves as a univigil.
• 1:21:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so the univigil is actually what creates God.
• 1:21:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: we are creating God.
• 1:21:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are in the process of creating that which we experience as oneness from a different viewpoint.
• 1:21:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: But within that and that's why I love it so much.
• 1:21:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not about shedding our individuality, but realizing that our individuality is what gives this particular flavor at this point of the oneness,
• 1:22:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Our experiences are all channeled into this new oneness, right?
• 1:22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So our experiences are our choice that it all matters.
• 1:22:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so, aptly, you know, his new book is called Why Your Life Matters.
• 1:22:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a huge fan of that perspective and I really, really love seeing myself and you and this conversation as part of this process of becoming and exploring.
• 1:22:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: the shape of our, you know, you need the joyality through that.
• 1:22:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I, you know, I'm personally very happy that I found him and very excited that you have also been following his work.
• 1:22:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just want to, I mean, it's beautiful.
• 1:22:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You bring it in and I think he's pointing,
• 1:22:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: What he's pointing to is an antidote, as well, to an avenue I went down, actually without my control in some sense, but like a radical non-duality and a new, inviting perspective of no self, like he don't exist and the world is an illusion.
• 1:23:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: They're actually growing communities of people recovering from that perspective and I love what he said about, you know, one day he said, would I tell my daughter these things?
• 1:23:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Would I say to a you don't exist and the world doesn't exist?
• 1:23:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's an illusion.
• 1:23:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's like no.
• 1:23:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: So just wanted to add that little bit onto what you're sharing to encourage people to check him out.
• 1:23:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so to check them out, and I see though, you know, this is where I see pieces of the puzzle fitting together, right?
• 1:23:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because one of the questions he answers in his work is sort of how do we get there?
• 1:23:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
• 1:23:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do we train our size sensing?
• 1:23:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do we bring people closer to this experience of being a univigil and not just an individual?
• 1:24:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: then the progression is the first step for me is always this amazing discovery of oh my god I have an inner house right I acknowledged the internal complexity of the thing that is I the next step is to realize oh my god you Joel you have an inner house oh my god all the beautiful complexity in you right the next step is to discover oh we live in in the same in our house wow right and maybe the final step is to discover actually there's no inner house
• 1:24:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's maybe when we've reached a state of oneness, right?
• 1:24:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: But so I feel that one of the entry points into this capacity to, to size sense, this capacity to experience ourselves as individuals is actually all the inner work that you and I and people that are listening now that we are propagating.
• 1:25:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's part of this path of becoming of this flourishing into
• 1:25:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: big virtual high five for that.
• 1:25:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a, I'm really glad I asked that question because I think it's a beautiful invitation that you just shared actually.
• 1:25:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I know I'm pretty sure it'll resonate with many of our listeners.
• 1:25:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, Nadia, I feel really grateful that we've been able to get connected and to have you on the podcast and
• 1:25:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, yeah, I think this is a really important invitation.
• 1:25:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's whole podcast to an essential part of work we're being invited to do.
• 1:25:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, where can we find out more about what you're up to?
• 1:25:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I mean, you know, find me on LinkedIn, Nadia Shdata Anchevski.
• 1:26:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll put it in the notes because nobody can type that.
• 1:26:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's on our website, um, conscious minus you.com or see you minus money.com or see you minus source.com.
• 1:26:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we have these programs again, we're now in this amazing process of experimenting with
• 1:26:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: contributions to the program, so I think it's also an exciting time to join us.
• 1:26:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: They are also, you know, wonderful other practitioners in Peter Koonix community.
• 1:26:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So my friend Tom Nixon wrote a book about source, called How Work with Source.
• 1:26:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have a friend Stefan Mackelbach who wrote the little red book about source.
• 1:26:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, those are great resources to tap into, there's an organizational development collective called Greater Than.
• 1:26:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a really great interview that the source of Greater Than Francesca picked it with Peter Cunic on Source.
• 1:26:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to link that.
• 1:27:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I can give you a bunch of links where people can dig deeper into this work and yeah, continue this path of exploration.
• 1:27:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can only say I think it will enrich.
• 1:27:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: you're unfolding in many ways.
• 1:27:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Nadia.
• 1:27:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Joel.
• 1:27:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: This was so amazing.
• 1:27:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for the great preparation and great questions.
• 1:27:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Here we are.
• 1:27:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: We're at the end of the podcast.
• 1:27:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just a heads up again.
• 1:27:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're not on our mailing list and you want to stay in the loop about other things we create, then head to coaches rising dot com put your name in the sign up box there.
• 1:27:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll also find some of our other offerings online trainings for coaches there and just want to end by wishing you well and I'll see you again next time.