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Transcript

"Mitch Better Have Their Money." · Pod Save America

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm Jon Favreau. Tommy Vitor.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Love it.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Welcome back.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: It's good to see you, buddy.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I've been gone for about a fucking month.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: How's it going?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Somebody tweeted that they sense tension between me and Tommy
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: and that I haven't been on the pod. And I
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: want you to know something. If there's ever tension between
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: me and Tommy, Tommy's off the pod.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: I'm expelled? I thought you were going to say if
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: there's ever tension between me and Tommy, you'll hear it
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: on the pod. Did you guys decide in advance that
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: I'm out?
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: People, we're not talking.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: It's an alliance.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: You guys have an alliance? It's a survivor thing. It's
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: a survivor thing.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: We don't know where Dan's going to come down.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can still get Dan. Dan's still gettable for you.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: He's still gettable.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: It could be a tie.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Are we vote counting? Yeah.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: What are we talking about today? What are we talking about?
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Today's show, Republicans get nervous about the midterms. The Senate
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: tries to pass same-sex marriage protections. An economic expert, Lindsay Owens,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: joins to talk about inflation. Then, a new game we're
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: calling Two Takes and a Fake. I think that's what
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: we're calling it.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Pioneered by Dan Fiverr. In conversation.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: This was on the pod, Dan came up with this game.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Just riffs. Just does it in real time. I was
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: told there was no housekeeping today, but I'm just going
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: to abuse my position as host. The wilderness is out.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: It's not abusing anything, John. It's a show you've been
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: working very hard on. I worked hard on a podcast,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: did a bunch of focus groups, talked to voters.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Even Sundays.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: In Las Vegas. Every day. In Atlanta, in Pittsburgh, in Virginia,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: in Orange County. These are all voters who, they voted
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: for Joe Biden in 2020, but they're not sure what
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: they're doing in the midterms. So I talked to everyone,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: get very annoyed about that.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Just because it was funny. I tweeted about this on
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Twitter and everyone's like, what? People don't know. People haven't
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: made up their minds yet. What is wrong with everyone?
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: What is wrong with people? How can you not made
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: up your mind? Why are we wasting our time on
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: these people? I'm like, well, because they're voters. They're Biden voters.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Because that's how we win elections. They showed up in
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: 2020 to vote for Joe Biden. So we kind of
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: need them. Right.
• 2:12
  Speaker 4: If you are listening to this podcast, you are probably
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: not a swing voter yet.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: But we need them. Yeah. And then the fun part
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: was after the focus group in each city, I had
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: a panel of experts. And we talked about what we
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: heard in the focus group. So people that you've heard
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: in the wilderness before. So you had campaign experts react?
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I had a campaign expert. To your focus group panel?
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: They did. They were campaign experts and they did react. Interesting, Dan.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be on campaign experts. You're stealing a
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: lot from Dan today. Guys, I got invited to be
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: on campaign experts react. Hey, congrats. Because of the wilderness.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I know. It's been this long and I haven't gotten
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: invited yet. It's been a real show. Anyway, let's get
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: to the news. With less than 60 days to the midterms,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: We've got ourselves a narrative shift. Ooh. Hold on to
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: your hats. I love narrative shifts. Narrative shifts. Here's the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Washington Post from this weekend. Republican leaders are scrambling to
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: shore up their chances to win back both the House
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: and Senate as inflation concerns fade, Democratic enthusiasm for protecting
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: abortion rights surges, and new fundraising challenges emerge in the
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: crucial final months of the campaign. It's funny, I can't
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: even get excited about leads like that because I imagine
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: them about Democrats and how annoyed I am and how
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: oversimplified it is. It's overtorked.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: And you felt them searching for a third one, and
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: they landed on fundraising, which is a real concern, but
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: it's just not as high level as the other ones.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about it. So the knives are
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: out for Rick Scott, who Republicans are blaming for bad
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Senate candidates and money troubles. The party's also upset about
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: falling gas prices. And are starting to make their negative
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: ads about crime instead.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Good luck trying to take out Rick Scott. We don't
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: even know where half the horcruxes are. Hey, I made
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: a Harry Potter reference.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: I'm back. There you go.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: I don't even like Harry Potter. Written by a transphobe.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: About kids who are good at sports.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: You're required. You have to say that.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Every time.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: You talk about Harry Potter.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I really feel it.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I still haven't seen all the Harry Potters. It's fine.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: All right. And internal Republican polling is showing that some
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: House races are getting tighter. because of increased enthusiasm and
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: approval for Democratic candidates. Guys, let's start with Rick Scott.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Is he fucking up the Republican Senate chances, or is
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: he just an unfortunate-looking scapegoat? How real are these money challenges?
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think when you said he was to
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: blame for bad candidates, that's the one I think is
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: completely unfair. I mean, Trump is to blame for most
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: of the candidates. But my takeaway from... And Republican voters.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Well, yes, of course. They're picking him. Of course. They're
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: picking him.
• 4:29
  Speaker 5: But.
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: I think Rick Scott is legitimately bad at his job.
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: I wrote down a few proof points. I would say
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: releasing an economic plan that would raise taxes on half
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: the country.
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: Bad idea.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Even Mitch McConnell knew that.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: While sunsetting Medicare and Social Security.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: And every other government program there is.
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: I would say attacking Joe Biden for going on vacation
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: in Delaware before getting on your private jet to a
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: yacht in Italy.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Bad idea.
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: Also, it's very clear that the NRC has spent way
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: too much on strategies, especially digital ads and sort of
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: like hyper aggressive fundraising, digital tactics that are completely unethical
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: that have not paid dividends. I also think to your point, John,
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: Rick Scott put himself and his plans in an ad
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: against two of the most unappealing things I can think
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: of in the same ad. And so also, I don't
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: think it was a very smart idea for him to
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: go nuclear in response to Mitch McConnell. I mean, like
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: do that after you win, but don't declare now that
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: your candidates are good.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: He didn't just.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I thought originally when I heard that story that he just...
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Like some reporter asked him and he... He wrote an op-ed.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: He wrote an op-ed.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: He wrote an op-ed. And saying that anyone who criticizes
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: him is a traitor to the cause. Traitor. He also
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: said about McConnell, trash-talking our Republican candidates was an amazing
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: act of cowardice. They are not on, they are not friendly. No,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: they don't like each other. Rick Scott and Mitch McConnell.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Rick Scott, I also love, he's just, he's like flying
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: to Iowa. This is like the Rick Scott show.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Well, it's also like.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: It's not even, like there's no, he's not. He thinks
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: highly of himself.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's also like, hey, Rick Scott, ask somebody
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: about your personality. You're not going to be president, my friend.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: They're not going to be president.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Especially, and also, by the way.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: We don't do a lot of predictions. I'm going to
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: predict Rick Scott's not going to be president.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: And an Iowa trip right before you don't win the
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Senate is also not a winning formula. It does seem
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: as though he's played a pretty good hand very poorly.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: What's going to happen? What's going to happen to this
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: tape when the Republicans win this? They could absolutely. We've
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: got a prediction.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: No, but of course they could win the Senate. Rick Scott.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Genius.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: It doesn't make it. 24.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Look, it won't.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: It will not be Rick Scott's victory if Democrats manage
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: to lose. We've lost before Rick Scott and we'll lose again.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: The question of the money challenge is a tougher one
• 6:35
  Speaker 4: to answer. I mean, clearly the NRSC is not raising
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: as much as they'd hoped. They are spending more than
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: they should. But like any billionaire can swoop in at
• 6:43
  Speaker 4: any time and cut a big super PAC check and level.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: The playing field.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: They're really struggling to raise from the lower dollar donors
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: and I don't know whose fault that is, but I
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: think it's sort of coming to fruition. Like we've been
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: talking about these absolutely bananas, conservative and Republican emails trying
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: to kind of cattle prod their base into donating money.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And it seems like maybe they've just they've they've they've
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: they've kind of grown resistant.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically what they're doing is they'd send a text
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: to their list and would say, hey, do you think
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden should resign? Write yes to donate. and then
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: you text back yes, and it automatically donates your $ 25
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: without telling you where it's going. That's called stealing.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: That is the same thing as the text I literally
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: just got from someone telling me to click this link
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: because there's been suspicious activity on my Amazon.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: Oh, you're not supposed to click this? No, I did not. Okay,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: thank you. By the end of July, the NRSC spent
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: more than 95% of what it brought in. That is so,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: they spent so much money. So much too early. And
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: all they have to show for it is all these
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: like really bad candidates. Again, they could win. It's not
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: because of it, but spending 95% of what you brought
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: in by the end of July is just, I don't
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: think it's a good practice.
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Also, by the way, like if, like hopefully Dr. Oz loses, like,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: all right, that's Rick Scott's fault because they didn't nominate
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: the other godforsaken candidate who is just as unappealing. Come on.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: David McCormick, the guy from Connecticut.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: The finance bro from Connecticut. Give me a break.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: And that's a Trump thing.
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: But again, like, Mitch McConnell is complaining because he wants
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: Peter Thiel to swoop in and save Blake Masters and
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: write him another big check in Arizona. And it's just
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: these guys talk about paying for Senate seats like we
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: talk about splitting a tab at a restaurant.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: It is crazy. I do think it's interesting that Peter
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Thiel has so far decided not to put more money
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: into that pack. There's a couple like another million and
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: a half went into that pack, but it was from
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: sources that weren't Peter Thiel.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: Apparently, he's like a bang for your buck investor. You know,
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: he wants to get in early in a primary where
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: he can really, $ 15 million can.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Really move the needle. It probably doesn't in the general.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: But, but if you're putting in millions of dollars into
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: a primary and then sitting out the general, not a great.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Use of money. Yeah. I guess they're going to, the,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: the McConnell's fund is going to run ads, uh, in
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: that race starting in October. So they didn't get in early,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: but they're going to get in towards the end. I do. Like, look,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: it'll be gross. We talked about these with the polls
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: in Arizona. Like Kelly has this big lead. It's Arizona.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: It's close. I feel like that's, these races are going
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: to close.
• 8:58
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Um, So there are a few Republican economists in this
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: piece saying that inflation might not be the silver bullet
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Republicans thought it would be. What did you think about that? Personally,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: my favorite thing was how they're just replacing gas prices
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: with crime in the ads. It's like, oh, you feeling
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: pain at the pump? You getting robbed at the pump?
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Let's put on the greatest hits.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, it does feel all a bit like we
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: should just be very careful to, first of all, trust
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Republican strategists to make us feel better about what's going
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: to happen in the fall. But also, it's absolutely true
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: that gas prices are coming down. I talked about this
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: with Lindsay Owens. Inflation is still high year over year.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: It's not continued to rise. It might be as simple
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: as gas prices have a huge impact on how people
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: perceive the economy, and that's having a positive impact. But prices,
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: it's still potent. It's still a really big issue.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the issue in June, when the average
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: gas price was over $ 5 a gallon, It was everywhere
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: in the media.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: It was everywhere on TikTok. It was on... Like, everyone
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: was talking about gas prices. Everyone's been checking out TikTok. Listen,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I know where my... George, I see you over here.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Prices have been falling every day since. We're now down.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: To $ 3. 80 a gallon is the national average. But that's
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: still over $ 1 a gallon higher than we were in
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: January 2021.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: So the question is.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: So he thinks this is a cap? Is better... Not
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: necessarily is better good enough if we're still talking about
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: prices that are pretty high and food prices are also high.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Hopefully gas prices will continue to go down, but we'll see.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I'm a Republican, I'm still trying to
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: blame high gas prices and high food prices in the
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Democratic Party.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, pump the brakes on those crime ads. Again, that's
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: our greatest hit.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: Well, the thing that's heartening about this sort of debate
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: that they're having is how unclear they are on what
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: they should, like they really are all over the place.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: They're all over the place on abortion. One of the
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: consultants said something that was, I think, very heartening to hear,
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: which is each of these individual candidates knows the race
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: they want to run. That's what you say when a
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: race is nationalized and you think you're about to lose.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: They sound like losers.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: They're also going back to Keystone Pipeline attacks. They're going
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: back to immigration attacks. All the hits.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: There will be a caravan heading this way soon.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: They're going to try to make that happen.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I just want to be clear. That doesn't mean they're
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: going to lose.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: No.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Do you want to record both versions of that?
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: No, no, I'm just going to put it here. I'm
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: leaving it here. Olivia, mark it in the time.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: The staff knows to only put their correct predictions in.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: If you look at Biden's approval and gas prices over
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: the last month, the relationship is quite correlated, depressingly so.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I say depressingly so because there is very little that
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: a president can do about gas prices. And so you're
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: just sort of, your approval rating is, you know, it's
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: up or down based on the gas rate.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: And again, because it's a Because this is like the
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: media finding a narrative. It's like Joe Biden's approval rating
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: skyrockets from 38 to 44. 44 is still not that great, people.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: It's under 50. It's a disapproval rating. It's not great.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: It's better than it was. It could get you through. Look,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: it's less about Joe Biden right now, and it's more
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: about these Democratic candidates. You got a Joe Biden sitting
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: at 44, 45. You can plausibly outperform him. You got
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: a Joe Biden sitting at 38, 39. Going to be
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: really tough, even if you're the best candidate running against
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: a really bad Republican. It's going to be tough to
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: outperform him. What, if anything, should Democrats, let's talk about
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: Democrats because we control that. We don't control Republicans. What
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: should Democrats do about lower inflation and gas prices? Brag
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: about it? Should we start saying, oh, we were, look
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: at Joe Biden fixed everything. Stop talking about the issue.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: Focus on abortion instead. What do you think? Is there
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: a third way? Lovett's a big third-rate guy. You guys
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: come up with whatever you want.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: I wrote a line.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: You ready? Lovett's on no labels. Okay, Lovett's on no labels.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: Here we go. While Democrats were fighting the war on inflation,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Republicans were declaring war on women.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Who's that for?
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: It's for whoever wants it out there in the world.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Lovett's running for the DNC now.
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: So, okay.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: It could do worse. We can workshop that. We can
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: workshop that.
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: Remember when economists and others were making fun of Joe
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: Manchin on Twitter for naming the basically climate change bill
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: the Inflation Reduction Act?
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Notice we've been defending Joe Manchin since the beginning of time.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: I'm glad he named it that.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: I think every Democrat, they should bundle up all the
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: economic proposals they've already made and put them into a
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: package that they call their inflation plan or their gas
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: prices plan and then talk about it on the stump.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's part of your ads, but if Dobbs and
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: abortion is the most important issue in your state, then
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: you should run on that and focus on that, but
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: just have this in your back pocket and then wrap
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: the Rick Scott tax increase around your opponent's neck.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: That's what I would do. I would nonstop remind people
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: that Republicans want to help rich assholes who are gouging
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: consumers during inflation. And when all the liberal economists whine
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: about that, I would ignore them.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Here are the things we're doing to make inflation better.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Here are the things Rick Scott and the Republicans would
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: do to make your life better. your economic situation, your
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: price is worse.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: We've been working hard with liberal hero Joe Manchin to
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: lower your energy costs, lower your prescription drug costs, lower
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: your healthcare costs.
• 14:02
  Speaker 4: Well, Rick Skar was helping Jeff Bezos construct his mega yacht.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and make sure that he didn't have to pay
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: a single dime in taxes.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: It's not important, but it is. Jeff Bezos coming down
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: from his fucking cloud bunker to tweet at random professors.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Being a billionaire, it really seems like it fucks you up.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like he's that busy. Is he just bored?
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: He's clearly looking through his menchies. Yeah.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: One reason for Democrats to stay terrified is the fact
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: that no one's fixed the polling problems from 2020. Nate
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Cohn has a piece in the New York Times today
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: about how Democratic Senate candidates are outrunning expectations in the
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: same places where the polls overestimated Biden in 20 and
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Clinton in 16. Places like Wisconsin, Nevada, and Ohio. What
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: do you guys think is going on here? Should we
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: all cancel Nate Cohn for telling us this?
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the thing you do with information that you don't
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: like is you attack the messenger on fiercely personal terms.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: So, Lava, you start.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Like, I can't remember. I don't know the House of
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Dragons character's name yet, but Matt Smith beating up the
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: guy that told him that his brother was going to
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: send troops. You know, that's what we want to do
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: to Nate Cohn.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Do you learn any lessons?
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: That's not a spoiler. You're spoiling? That's nothing.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: First of all, you called someone Matt Smith. No one
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: even knows.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: Matt Smith. I could say Prince Philip from the crown.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable. Oh, well, now we know who that is.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: What were we talking about? What do you think about
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the Nate Cohn piece?
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, here's what I think.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: One of the three pieces you have to read today.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Here's what I think.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: Here's what I think. we should all just assume all
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: the polls are wrong. The one thing that I sort
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: of was stepping back and saying, well, we have something
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: that's better than polls, which is elections. And we've had
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: four special elections since Dobbs was handing down. And in
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: all of them, Democrats have outperformed Biden's 2020 showing. Now
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: there's some question as to what kind of voters are
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: in those districts. Maybe they look more like the college
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: educated voters that will help us in those places, but
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: will show us underperforming in some of the places where
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: we had this sort of polling error that Nate's talking about.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: That's fine.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: I just, The thing about polling errors is you don't
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: know because we won't know until we run the election.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: I think we should assume there is one and act
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: as if.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: I just hope this is a public polling error. And
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: the internals that the parties are using to determine resource allocation,
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: especially millions and millions of dollars of TV ads, are
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: based on something.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: A little more updated. So that's my concern. The public
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: polls are fun for us and whatever. We can tell
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: people to ignore them in their media polls. We can
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: make fun of the media for not doing a good
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: job in polls. But the problem in 2020 was reflected
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: in internal polling, and it was also reflected in internal
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: polling on both sides. So even these anonymous Republicans worrying
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: about shit, their polls could be shit too. We just
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: call that Trafalgar. Yeah, he's the only one. Trafalgar, thank you.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: The problem here is, or one of the theories here,
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: what the problem is, is that it wasn't necessarily in
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: 20 Trump voters lying to pollsters. It was Trump voters
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: being less likely to talk to pollsters at all. And
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Biden voters were sitting at home during the pandemic, you know,
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: with their masks on inside, very excited to talk to
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: pollsters about how much they hated Donald Trump. Every call,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: every pollster call, they got on the phone, they're talking
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: about how excited they were. So that's called non-response bias.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: But there's a concern that it's a more structural problem now,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: which is people who don't have as much faith in institutions,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: don't trust the media, don't trust politics at all, whether
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: it's Trump voters, whether it's non-college voters that usually vote
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: for Democrats, are just not answering pollsters' calls. And if
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: that's the case and there's too many college-educated voters getting
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: into these polls, well, that's now going to help Democrats
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: because we're now the party, even though we used to
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: not be, now we're the party overwhelmingly of college-educated voters.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: And so if we can't get non-college voters in there,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: it's going to be a problem.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: And I go back to my main concern here. Who
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: the fuck is answering their phones?
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: It's just the... Well, now they're doing.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Text polling too. That's how you're getting better responses with text,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: better responses online.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Have my phone calls say potential spam.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: I don't understand why.
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: It's always for a warranty for a car.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't buy in 93. I don't understand why it
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: rings at all. It doesn't even say a number.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Well, you can silence unknown callers. That's what I do
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: on my iPhone.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: But if the phone knows it's potential spam and they
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: don't even tell you who it is anymore... You could
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: just file it away for me. You don't need to
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: make it ring. I'm okay.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Here's the question. We'll take this to Mr. Jobs later. Presumably,
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the bias would be relatively.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: Consistent over time, right? Like a six-month period, the bias
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: would not change that much directionally. So you would know,
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: you would have a sense of how the polls are
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: moving directionally, right? Like if Democrats are doing better or worse,
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: that would hopefully be because of actual responses, not necessarily
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: because the bias is changing over time.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Here's the concern so dobbs happens and right bunch of
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: college educated liberals are like fuck it i am i
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: can i am energized i am mad i'm gonna go
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: out and vote it's happening and so they they are
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: more likely to answer pollsters calls and republican voters are
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: like the media narrative is not good for us because
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: people seem to be upset when they're uh when the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: rights when abortion is taken away and they're like i
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: don't want to talk to a pollster And then there
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: is this mirage of a bounce that's not really there.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: That would be the theory.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Or that it's not the size that we've seen. Because
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: there is, of course, that enthusiasm is reflected in the
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: outcomes we've seen. It's reflected in voter registration. It's affected
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: in what we saw in Kansas. We've seen it in
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: the New York 19th. Part of the problem here is
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: the polls that happen in the run to an election
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: are a snapshot in time, days, weeks before the actual
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: election happens. Yeah, these polls can be off and the
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: average can be off even in the days leading up
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: to an election, but it's really hard to even know
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: what you're measuring, what you're really comparing. Are you comparing
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: that Democratic enthusiasm was not as high as we thought
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: it was, or Republicans have built an incredible turnout machine, right,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: that turns people out in the final days of an election,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: especially on election day. We just don't know.
• 20:18
  Speaker 4: It's not the size of the margin of error. It's
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: the motion of the quotient.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: People who judge us in here, we don't do that
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: kind of innuendo.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: It's a question. What's your denominator? You know, look, you
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: made a very good point about the special elections. The
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: only thing that keeps me up about the special elections
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: is special elections and primaries tend to attract voters who
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: pay a lot of attention to politics. Voters who pay
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of attention to politics tend to be college educated. Therefore, again,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: it might be easier and special to get the kind
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: of results that we're getting.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Of course, it's true on both sides, right? And look,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: one thing that's also changed is the way in which
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: this midterm is going to be run in a new way.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: This is a midterm that's going to have an electorate
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: that may look a lot more like a presidential. We
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: just have no fucking idea.
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: I'm not trusting a single poll out of Wisconsin.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Nope. I wouldn't. I mean... That was a big miss.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Wisconsin has not had a good track record.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, just ask Senator Gideon about polling.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: No, then people in 18, polls were pretty right. They
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: were right, you know, Tammy Baldwin in 18, the polls
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: were pretty close. Same with Tony Evers. Right, right. So
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: you don't know. All right, so if Republicans are actually
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: polling worse, of course it'll be because of their extremism
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: on issues like abortion and same-sex marriage. This is the
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: week we'll find out if there are at least 10
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Republican senators... who were willing to vote for a bill
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: that would protect same-sex marriage after Clarence Thomas, of course,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: wrote in the Dobbs decision that Obergefell should be overturned.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Nearly 50 Republicans voted for this bill when it passed
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: the House. But so far, only Susan Collins, Rob Portman,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: and Tom Tillis have said they'll definitely vote for it
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: in the Senate. Some Republican senators are saying the bill
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: is unnecessary, and others are trying to include religious exemptions
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: to same-sex marriage protections. You guys think Republicans enjoy being
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: on the losing end of a 70-30 issue a few
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: weeks out from the midterms? What do you think's going
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: on here?
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Not just the 70-30 issue, an issue where 55% of
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Republicans support marriage equality. This issue is done. This is
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: not a question.
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: At the risk of being sent to the island with
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: Nate Cohn, do we worry, do we wonder at all
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: how many California and New York-based respondents are in that
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: 70-30 number and whether it's tighter in states? That would
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: just be my question politically. I think there's no doubt-
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: that this being against marriage equality is underwater in every state.
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: But the question is how much?
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: I think that's all you can say is that it's
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: under in every state, you know, or just about every
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: state if it's a 70-30 issue nationwide.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: I think these guys are trapped between what the majority
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: of the country wants and what the MAGA base wants,
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: which is, you know, pretty fervent bigotry.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and also I think the challenge here is
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: or why this is happening with Republicans is Ron Johnson
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: is really the most endangered incumbent. I guess you can
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: make a case for maybe Marco Rubio too. But the
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: rest of them don't have a race where they have
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: to face a general electorate that would probably be favorable
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: towards same-sex marriage. What they have is potentially a primary
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: coming up in some race in the future where they're
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: worried about the base. So they're all saying, fuck it.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I also think something's happening where they all want to
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: jump together So you could end up getting a bunch
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: more Republicans, but they don't want to say it now
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: and make themselves a target. So they're just going to
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: wait for the actual vote. Which is why Schumer has said,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: we're doing a vote.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Yes. And, you know, Johnson's in a, it is his,
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: it is his Senate colleague that is leading the effort,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: who is a lesbian woman. And she has been really smart.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You know, we talked about it when she was on
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Positive America. Obviously we're, you know, we're soulless political operatives
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: who see an opportunity to kind of drive a wedge
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: issue that we were finally on the right side of
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: as Republicans have overextended itself on the culture war. Not
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: our Senator Tammy Baldwin. This is an issue of the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: heart for her. She wants to enshrine marriage equality. And
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: I think that that's righteous and good. But getting a
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: bunch of Republicans on the record refusing to support the
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: equality of gay people in their states is a helpful
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: thing as we head into the fall. An ancillary benefit
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: of what's obviously a moral crusade.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And Ron Johnson's on Mars. God knows what that guy's
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: calculus is. He's just a crazy person. What is going
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: on with that? He originally said he saw no reason
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: to oppose the bill, and then a few weeks ago
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: claimed he never said he'd support the bill and just
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: made that earlier statement to, quote, get the press office back.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: He's genuine.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Fairness to him. He's just not bright.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: He's genuinely stupid. Yeah. Love it. Did you see that?
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: So Ken Melman is leading... this.
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: Like letter with like former Republicans to support same sex marriage.
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, I'm glad he's still atoning for his sins.
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: But, uh, Charlie Baker, governor of Massachusetts, wildly popular, right?
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: I think he was running at like 70% approval is
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: on the bill, but Dr. Oz, I think has signed
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: this letter, um, in support of marriage equality, which was
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: interesting to me. That is very, that I, that I
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: think does tell you something about what a genuine, what
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: the politics are in a genuine swing state.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: It's to be for marriage quality, which is why I
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: think the Ron Johnson thing is a little weird.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Because I don't think Wisconsin's that much different than Pennsylvania
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: on that, on that issue. I wouldn't, I would, you know. Yeah.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: They're also just sort of unaccustomed to giving into a
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: democratic position that's wildly popular. You know, it's a sort
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: of out of, it's out, it's out of Ron Johnson's
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: comfort zone to do something right on this.
• 25:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: And I do also wonder too, it's like, all right,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: you know, we talked about this a lot on this
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: show that like, We want Republicans, we believe that they've
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: gone too far on the culture war. They've overextended themselves.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: They've taken on freedom. They are way over their skis.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: They obviously have an incredibly unpopular position they're trying to
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: run away from on abortion. That's also true on contraception.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: It's true on marriage equality. It's true on a host
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: of other culture war issues. And we're saying, let's get
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: them on the record over and over and over again.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: To a large extent, that is what this does. It
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: has two purposes. Obviously, we want marriage equality protected in
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: this country. But just as much, we want to use
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: this Oh, no, I mean, not just as much. Obviously,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: it's much more important to protect marriage equality. But as, again,
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: a cynical operative might say, if it fails because they
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: can't get 10 fucking Republicans to support the equality of
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: gay people in this country on a 70-30 issue, well,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: that might be useful to us, even as sad as
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: we are that the bill doesn't pass.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: It's useful in the sense that it tells the American people, yeah,
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: where the politicians they're voting for stand on a very
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: important issue that they might not have known where they stood. Yeah,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: that's why you do these things. It's like, I'm glad
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer's holding the vote. This is all the Democrats
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: can do. They can't. What else? They're going to go
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: over and try to convince Marco Rubio to not be
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: an asshole.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Like Rubio has said everything he could possibly say to
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: avoid saying what his actual position is on this issue.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: This is unnecessary. It's a waste of time. Hey, man, yes,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: votes and no votes take you the same amount of time.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: If it's a waste of time, why not just put people,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: we don't need this. There's no threat to marriage equality. Well,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: the leading conservative jurist says that it's up next. Why
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: not put your gay constituents at ease? The reason Marco
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Rubio isn't for this is because his position is unchanged.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: He is against marriage equality. He is for justices that
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: oppose marriage equality. That is his position. He doesn't want
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: to say it because he's a fucking weenie.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: He's in a race.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: And he's in a tough race. Tougher all the time.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: We don't know how tough.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: We don't trust the polls. I would say, and Florida
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: on this issue. Yes, of course. He doesn't want this
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: to be an issue in Florida. So that's where they are.
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: We got gays in Miami.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: There you go. There you go.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: And some other places.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: And probably all over Florida. Yeah, everywhere.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: We're everywhere.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: We're everywhere. A gay person saw an alligator today.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: A couple. In Florida.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: In Florida.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: You're saying in Florida.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I'm saying in Florida. I think some gay people saw alligators.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: Near their homes.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: That's your thought. Are we done with this? We're done.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: When we come back, I couldn't find a segue. There
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: was no segue from that. When we come back, Lovett
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: talks to Lindsay Owens, an economic expert about inflation. How's that?
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: How's that? How's that for a segue?
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Joining us now to talk about inflation and gas prices,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I have a Tesla. It's the executive director of Groundwork Collaborative,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Lindsay Owens. Thanks for coming on the pod.
• 28:08
  Speaker 5: Thanks so much for having me. I'm a big fan
• 28:09
  Speaker 5: of the show.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: So last spring, thank you for saying that, by the way.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: It'd be great to have you even if you weren't.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Last spring, gasoline was averaging $ 5 a gallon. Republicans were
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: promising to destroy Democrats on inflation. Fast forward, and Republican
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: strategists are warning their candidates that they need to broaden
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: their message. But even as gas prices have fallen, inflation
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: as a whole has only really dipped. It's still near
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: 40-year highs. What is the impact of inflation right now?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: How is it actually impacting people's lives? Yeah.
• 28:38
  Speaker 5: So we are definitely not out of the woods yet
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: on inflation. As you mentioned, hit those 40-year highs in June.
• 28:45
  Speaker 5: And then in July, started to see some cooling, right?
• 28:48
  Speaker 5: So we got those gas prices down, which is a
• 28:51
  Speaker 5: huge relief to families. And then we actually saw zero
• 28:54
  Speaker 5: inflation in July. So on average, prices did not increase
• 28:57
  Speaker 5: at all. Going forward, we're actually anticipating... little bit of deflation.
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: So we may see in the August numbers, the price
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: level cooling a little bit, you know, negative 0.1, something small,
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: you know, but we'll still be in the 8% range
• 29:14
  Speaker 5: year over year, which is a big change from years
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: of low inflation. I think, you know, how does this
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: affect families? Of course, these high prices are really pinching families.
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: Food prices are still up. That's hurting folks, particularly on
• 29:30
  Speaker 5: fixed incomes, who really can't afford to drop down much to,
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: you know, to decrease their demand for food. And we're seeing,
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: you know, still car prices. are up, although we do
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: anticipate used car prices to drop a touch in this
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: next print. But I think, you know, overall the outlook
• 29:48
  Speaker 5: is starting to look good. It's very promising, although of course,
• 29:52
  Speaker 5: you know, still a lot of uncertainty in the, in
• 29:55
  Speaker 5: the months and weeks ahead.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit about what it's been
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: like trying to understand the economy in the wake of
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: the pandemic? Like, how do you know when to apply like,
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: quote unquote, like normal rules? And how do you know
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: when to sort of throw them out the window and say,
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: we have no clue. It's a once in a century pandemic.
• 30:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah. I mean, so much about this moment has called
• 30:18
  Speaker 5: into question the conventional wisdom, um, the sort of econ
• 30:22
  Speaker 5: 101 wisdom that you learned in your freshman year in college,
• 30:26
  Speaker 5: a lot of that has been out the window since
• 30:27
  Speaker 5: the pandemic hit. The supply chain snarls that we've seen
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: are really unprecedented, COVID zero policies in China. I mean,
• 30:35
  Speaker 5: those are things that really haven't impacted us ever. We
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: didn't have the same global trade system the last time
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: we had a global pandemic a hundred years ago, right?
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: The shift that we saw, the sort of historic shift
• 30:47
  Speaker 5: we saw from spending in services to spending in goods.
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: That was really unexpected. Although, again, kind of good news
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: on that front. We're seeing some normalizing there. The fact
• 30:58
  Speaker 5: actually that right now we're experiencing price declines alongside low unemployment, right?
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: That's unexpected. It suggests we may not have to make
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: that sort of hard choice, potentially that false choice between
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: low prices and low unemployment. We may be headed to
• 31:19
  Speaker 5: an economy where we could have both. So, so much
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: about this moment is unexpected. And I think, you know,
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: the president and the Biden administration is really an unchartered territory.
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: And so far, it looks like they may be steering
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: the ship through, you know, through these turbulent waters in
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: a really great way. Obviously, you know, the period of
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: high inflation over the last year really tough, but really
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: great policies on the recovery. We had this really historic recovery.
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: On Friday, the Biden administration released their economic blueprint. And
• 31:54
  Speaker 5: in that economic blueprint was this incredible chart that looks
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: at the pace of recovering jobs in a recession. And
• 32:03
  Speaker 5: what you see in that chart is that despite the
• 32:05
  Speaker 5: fact that we lost the most jobs of any of
• 32:09
  Speaker 5: the four recent recessions during this COVID recession, we actually
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: recover the job losses the fastest of any of the
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: recent recessions. So the COVID recession and Biden's response beats
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: the jobless recovery of the Great Recession by a mile.
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: But it also beats the dot-com bust in the 2000s.
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: And then it also actually beats by just a hair
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: the 1990s recession, even though the 1990s recession had significantly
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: lower job losses. So really just an incredible achievement there,
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: which is, to your point, way outside of the norm
• 32:47
  Speaker 5: for recession recovery. And I think actually rate setting a
• 32:50
  Speaker 5: new pace for what Americans should expect from their president,
• 32:55
  Speaker 5: from Congress, when we have a recession, when we have
• 32:58
  Speaker 5: mass joblessness going forward.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: So you talk about the fact that there's been this inflation,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: but at the same time, this speedy recovery. There are
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: certain economists that say, oh, those things are tied together.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: They're inextricably linked. You see some people saying, well, what
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: would you rather have? Would you rather have people kind
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: of immiserated and without jobs? Or would you rather have
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: a situation where we got everybody back to work, but
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: there are these rising costs? And that affects what happens next,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: because the debate has now turned to what do we
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: do to get inflation under control? Is it necessary or
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: good to try to control inflation if that causes some
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: kind of a downturn? What do you think about that debate?
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Do you make that connection? Are you one of the
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: people that was marching on Larry Summers' house? What's happening
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: right now?
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well, fortunately for Larry, I don't know where he lives.
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: So I have not marched on Larry's house. I have
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: taken him to task on Twitter a couple of times.
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: I guess that's the sort of modern version. But yeah,
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: I have a lot of thoughts on that debate. I
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: think Americans should be incredibly, incredibly wary of folks selling
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: unemployment as the cure for inflation, of folks selling mass
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: unemployment and recession as the cure for inflation. That is
• 34:17
  Speaker 5: a cure worse than the disease, plain and simple. And
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: it's a false choice. We don't have to choose between
• 34:22
  Speaker 5: low prices and low unemployment. We can have both. And
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: the only thing worse then high inflation is high inflation
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: and millions of people out of work, a la a
• 34:33
  Speaker 5: Volcker shock. So 100%, I don't think we need to
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: be in a world where we are dialing up, dialing up,
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: dialing up interest rates to destroy demand to try to
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: cool inflation. What we're seeing here is actually some normalizing
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: of the forces underlying inflation, those supply chain shocks that
• 34:54
  Speaker 5: we saw Some of the gas prices and the commodity
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: shocks that we saw, not yet are we seeing cooling
• 35:02
  Speaker 5: on the corporate profiteering. The quarter two data came out.
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: And again, we're at 70-year highs on the profiteering. But
• 35:10
  Speaker 5: the good news is there's a lot of room for
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: cooling without destroying demand if we just take on some
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: of that profiteering. So I think there is a lot
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: of room for inflation to cool and normalize even, you know,
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: even without... I.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Want to understand what's happening with your ear pods. First
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: of all, it seems as though several pairs have fallen
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: out of your ears and I don't really even understand
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: how that's possible.
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: It's the same pair. It's the same pair. And then
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: I'm just catching them as they fall out and then
• 35:42
  Speaker 5: reinserting them when I finish a sentence.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So can you talk about the... I'm like interested...
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: On the question of how much corporations have been profiting
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: from these high prices, again, you see this debate about
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: whether or not that's driving inflation, whether or not that's
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: taking advantage of inflation. Can you just talk a little
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: bit about the relationship between where inflation is at right now,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: people's expectations of prices and what they should be, and
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: how corporations are using that either maliciously or just sort
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: of practically to kind of make more money? Yeah.
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: So at Groundwork Collaborative, which is the organization I run,
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: we have spent the last year just pouring over corporate
• 36:27
  Speaker 5: earnings calls. So either listening in, listening to the recordings or,
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: you know, usually reading through the transcripts because it's a
• 36:34
  Speaker 5: little faster. And what you saw, particularly in early, you know,
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: mid-2021 when inflation started to pick up, you know, what
• 36:42
  Speaker 5: you saw was is companies, CEOs coming to their shareholders,
• 36:47
  Speaker 5: coming to the market analysts on their quarterly earnings calls
• 36:50
  Speaker 5: and saying things like, prices are ticking up a little
• 36:54
  Speaker 5: bit and folks are kind of expecting it. And so
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: we're taking advantage of that. We're raising our prices too.
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: We're not sure how, we need to raise them a
• 37:02
  Speaker 5: little bit, but we're raising them a little bit more.
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: And that little bit more, that sort of gilding of
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: the lily that was going on Under the cover of inflation,
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: they would say things like, all of our competitors are
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: raising prices, so we feel really good about raising prices too.
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: Or we expect that consumers are getting used to this,
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: and we think they're going to pay it, so we're
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: going to go a little further. What that did is, A,
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: drive up prices and accelerate the underlying inflation that we
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: were already seeing. But B, it drove profit margins up.
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: So if you're passing along rising input costs, but then
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: going for more, you're really expanding your margins. And what
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: we saw were these historic profit margins, 70-year highs we
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: hit in 2021, and we're still there after Q2 of 2022.
• 37:51
  Speaker 5: And so what that means, the good news is those
• 37:54
  Speaker 5: sort of markups, which is the amount of money a
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: company charges for a good above their input costs, those
• 38:01
  Speaker 5: markups mean that there's room to drop prices without destroying demand, right?
• 38:08
  Speaker 5: And Lael Brainard, you know, at the Fed said just
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: last week that she sees one of the real tailwinds
• 38:15
  Speaker 5: for cooling prices to be the fact that there's actually
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: quite a bit of room for prices to come down
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: because of these historic markups we've seen over the last year.
• 38:26
  Speaker 5: So this is a really important and, you know, often
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: poorly understood aspect of the It is a critical one
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: to the long-term outlook. And it's one, I will say that,
• 38:39
  Speaker 5: you know, President Biden and folks on the Hill understand.
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: I mean, we saw, we've seen, you know, a half
• 38:44
  Speaker 5: a dozen hearings in Congress on corporate profiteering and inflation.
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: You know, folks are running campaign ads on this all
• 38:50
  Speaker 5: across the country. And President Biden has taken it on
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: a number of times from the podium, you know, setting
• 38:56
  Speaker 5: up things to go after meatpacking monopolies that are driving
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: up prices, asking the Federal Trade Commission to take this on,
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: and a number of other initiatives.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: So I guess what I don't understand about it is like,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: so I understand why they say, oh, we can raise
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: prices a little bit more than people expect. What I
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: don't understand is why does it work? Why did that
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: actually work in producing? Because it seems like self-fulfilling, right?
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Like the reason they think they can, this is what
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: I found baffling. I don't know if other people listening
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: found this baffling. It's like, oh, people expect prices to
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: be higher for some reason. These companies take advantage, raise
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: their prices even higher. And then because people expect it,
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: they pay it. What causes that kind of a mania
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: to like, well, it's almost like feels like a collective delusion.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Like prices are artificially high, even above and beyond what
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: you'd expect based on supply chain issues and and supply
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: and demand, but that works because we're in a moment
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: where people expect inflation?
• 39:52
  Speaker 5: So it's not just the inflation expectations that are driving
• 39:55
  Speaker 5: the sort of profiteering we're talking about. The other thing
• 39:58
  Speaker 5: is market power, is pricing power. So if you only
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: have two or three or four players in a space,
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: like we have with the meatpackers, we've got the big four,
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: they all can keep prices high because they're not worried
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: about undercutting each other, right? you know, if you've got
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: artificially high prices, you should have a competitor come in
• 40:18
  Speaker 5: and drive down prices, offer a lower competitive price. You
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: don't see that in places where you don't have a
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: lot of market competition. And you also don't see that
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: in a world in which, you know, folks are, you know,
• 40:34
  Speaker 5: folks are just operating off some information asymmetries here, like you,
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: like you referenced.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: But so, okay. But like, I, I'm, I'm all aboard
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: making this argument. So I guess what I want to
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: understand is, so we've seen corporate consolidation in a ton
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: of different industries, right? And that's been happening over the last,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: let's say, 30, 40 years. And then all of a
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: sudden this pandemic happens. It causes a spike in inflation.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Is it that they're like prices rose dramatically and quickly
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: and dramatically faster than you would have expected? The consolidation
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: didn't happen at that pace. The consolidation has been taking
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: place slowly. Is it that there's an impact? that basically
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: consolidation now means we should come to understand that in
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: moments of inflation or other kinds of economic crises, these
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: companies can exert more power? Is it the two things
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: connected to each other?
• 41:22
  Speaker 5: Absolutely. I like to talk about means, motive, and opportunity.
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: The profit motive has not changed. The profit motive is secular.
• 41:29
  Speaker 5: You know, I believe that corporations were out to make
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: a buck before the pandemic and they're out to make
• 41:33
  Speaker 5: a buck now. The consolidation was also there before, right?
• 41:39
  Speaker 5: It was, you know, in some senses, the pricing power
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: was latent, right? It was, it was existent. It was there.
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: In many cases, people were using their, their, their, their
• 41:50
  Speaker 5: size and their market share to undercut competition. In a
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: world in which supply is plentiful, you might want to
• 41:58
  Speaker 5: pick up market share in part by driving down your price.
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: In a world in which supply is scarce, you can't
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: go build that second, third, fourth shop to pick up
• 42:08
  Speaker 5: more market share. So instead you flip, you seize the opportunity,
• 42:12
  Speaker 5: the means motive and the pandemic supply shortages being the
• 42:15
  Speaker 5: opportunity to go for price, to drive margin up, to
• 42:19
  Speaker 5: drive profit margins up by increasing prices. And so that's
• 42:23
  Speaker 5: what we saw in this period. And I think you're
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: 100% correct. This is not something that we saw in
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: the inflation of the late 1970s. We didn't have the
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: kind of consolidated market that we have today. And so
• 42:37
  Speaker 5: this is, I think, in many ways, poorly understood in
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: part because it's a relatively new phenomenon. I think the
• 42:42
  Speaker 5: research is starting to bear this out. There's new research
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: by the finds a sizable role for market power. And
• 42:50
  Speaker 5: there are other economists taking this on today. So I
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: think we'll be talking about this for the next decade.
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: But it's a really important part of the sort of
• 42:58
  Speaker 5: constellation of causes that's driving that underlying inflation. And it
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: is accelerating, not sort of primarily causing inflation.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because you see some economists who say, all right,
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I get that progressives would like to blame corporations rather than, say,
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: you know, inflationary monetary policy or inflationary fiscal policy. But
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: corporations haven't gotten greedier. They've been greedy the whole time.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: So that's an explanation for why, even though consolidation has
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: been happening over time, this was a unique moment in
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: which they could take advantage.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: I mean, look, they've been running a pretty like aggressive
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: straw man campaign where they're like greed, like these people
• 43:37
  Speaker 5: think greed increased in like, you know, 2022. And it's like,
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: you know, like I was a fricking Warren staffer for
• 43:44
  Speaker 5: five years. Like, of course I think corporations were greedy
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: in 2021. Right. That's not my, you know, that's not
• 43:49
  Speaker 5: my mentality. And then the second one, as you mentioned, Oh, well,
• 43:52
  Speaker 5: consolidation hasn't increased.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, This is a.
• 43:55
  Speaker 5: Dynamic system, right? You can have an interaction effect.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Well, all of a sudden people look around like, let's
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: try it.
• 44:02
  Speaker 5: They literally say that in the earnings calls. They're like,
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: we've never really increased prices before because that's not really
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: what we did, right? We went with low prices and
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: discounting and picked up market share. And they're like, but
• 44:15
  Speaker 5: we've been exploring this whole price increases thing. And it's
• 44:18
  Speaker 5: pretty great. People are paying. So they'll say, so we're
• 44:21
  Speaker 5: going to keep going. And I mean, they use euphemisms like,
• 44:25
  Speaker 5: you know, further pricing actions should be expected in the
• 44:28
  Speaker 5: next quarter or like full fulfillment or reach our full
• 44:31
  Speaker 5: potential of pricing actions. But all of those are just
• 44:35
  Speaker 5: euphemisms for like, we're just going to keep going until
• 44:37
  Speaker 5: we fucking touch the stove, right?
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Right, right. Until people stop buying. So one thing I
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: want to ask you about, because you, you know, the
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Groundwork Collaborative is about figuring out sort of broad-based prosperity,
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: prosperity that's shared. We talk a lot about economic inequality,
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: but one thing I wanted to get your thoughts on
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: is geographic inequality. inequality and how growth has been distributed
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: over the past several years and how this recovery has
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: been distributing economic growth. We've seen a lot of the
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: growth go to sort of major metropolitan areas, places that
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: have been growing, the urban areas, places where rents are
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: out of control, and then kind of a permanent recession
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: in whole swaths of the country. Has that trend continued
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: in this recovery? Have you seen any signs that there's
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: any kind of shift?
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so we've seen some early indications of a shift there.
• 45:27
  Speaker 5: So I would point to sort of two factors. The
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: first is we did have some, you know, some movement
• 45:32
  Speaker 5: out of the major metropolitan areas in part because of
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: the opening up of remote work, right? So we're seeing
• 45:38
  Speaker 5: some sort of newer metropolitan areas, right? expand and new
• 45:44
  Speaker 5: economic opportunities in some areas outside of your, you know,
• 45:47
  Speaker 5: your coastal New York's and California's. But the second thing
• 45:51
  Speaker 5: I think that may, you know, accelerate that trend, and
• 45:54
  Speaker 5: it's a little bit too early to tell, you know,
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: but the Biden administration's industrial policy is really targeted at
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: rebuilding some of that lost manufacturing capacity that we that
• 46:08
  Speaker 5: we offshored over the last few decades and that led
• 46:11
  Speaker 5: us into this very precarious, brittle supply chain that lacked
• 46:16
  Speaker 5: any resilience, right? Like the pandemic hits and we can't
• 46:19
  Speaker 5: even make PPE or COVID tests because we can't make anything, right?
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: Because we made this big bet on the high wage
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: knowledge economy and the low wage service economy. And we're like, well,
• 46:28
  Speaker 5: let other people make the things, right? And it turned
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: out we needed to make some things. So I think,
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: you know, the Biden administration's industrial policy is really targeted
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: towards rebuilding some of that manufacturing capacity and in geographic
• 46:41
  Speaker 5: locales that have been left behind. So, you know, Biden
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: was in Ohio on Friday opening up an Intel plant.
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: You know, Yellen was in Detroit last week at a
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: Ford plant, right? I'm really trying to use the weight
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: of government to put the thumb on the scale and
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: rebuild that diverse economy that works for all of us.
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: And that includes, you know, rebuilding some of that lost
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: manufacturing capacity in areas that have been left behind because
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: of offshoring.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: One last question. So we just went through this whole
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: congressional debate about Build Back Better, which then became mostly
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: a climate-focused bill with some healthcare and tax policy due
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: to the vagaries of Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema's moods.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: As we look to next year, what are some of
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: the policies either that fell out of Build Back Better
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: or that were never in the first place that make
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: you excited either about what Joe Biden can do just
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: on an executive level or what Democrats could do if
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: we retain control of Congress?
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, it's it's The last month, there's just
• 47:58
  Speaker 5: been an incredible reversal of fortune on the policy front.
• 48:02
  Speaker 5: What was a fairly grim 2022, right? We had this
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: big moment at the beginning of 2021 with the American
• 48:08
  Speaker 5: Rescue Plan, and then we're sort of waiting for the
• 48:12
  Speaker 5: next moment to make a difference in people's lives. And
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: just in the last couple of weeks, right, we've had
• 48:19
  Speaker 5: the Inflation Reduction Act, had the Student Loan Forgiveness, Student
• 48:22
  Speaker 5: Loan Relief affecting millions and millions of families. But there's
• 48:27
  Speaker 5: a lot of unfinished business. I think there's definitely more
• 48:31
  Speaker 5: that can be done on the tax code. We got
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: that book minimum tax, that 15% rate. We got the
• 48:38
  Speaker 5: IRS enforcement, but we didn't get the corporate rate back
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: to where it needs to be. There's a lot of
• 48:44
  Speaker 5: unfinished business on the tax side. Obviously, we need Congress
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: to do that. But there are a few tax expirations
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: looming that are always nice opportunities for for revisiting tax policy.
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: I don't think we did enough on the care economy.
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: That piece of the Build Back Better agenda was completely jettisoned.
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: We will not be at a full strength economy until
• 49:04
  Speaker 5: we have affordable childcare, full stop. So we've got to
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: do something there in the next couple of years. And
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: I think the other thing that was left out of
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: Build Back Better, which folks aren't talking enough about, is housing.
• 49:17
  Speaker 5: The time to have built massive amounts of additional housing
• 49:21
  Speaker 5: supply and particularly affordable housing supply was probably a decade ago.
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: But it's never too late. And we're going to have
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: to move on housing. That's something that maybe has bipartisan appeal.
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: So I think that's going to be critically important. And then, yeah,
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: there's a ton on the regulatory side. There's just awesome
• 49:40
  Speaker 5: leadership at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, at the Federal
• 49:44
  Speaker 5: Trade Commission. I don't think Rohit Chopra and Lena Kahn
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: are going to be slowing down anytime soon. There's sort
• 49:51
  Speaker 5: of decades of work to do on both of those issues.
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: And I think quite a bit to do on the
• 49:57
  Speaker 5: labor front as well. There's a handful of things that
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: can happen at the Department of Labor, including increasing the
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: overtime rate. wage, which is something, you know, that Obama
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: made a run at at the very tail end of
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: his presidency and just, you know, wasn't able to get
• 50:12
  Speaker 5: over the finish line. So I think they should absolutely
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: take another run at overtime as well.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Lindsay Owens, thank you so much for being here. It
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: was really helpful. Really appreciate it. Yeah.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Thanks, John.
• 50:22
  Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: All right, before we go, We have our chief take officer,
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, here. Not for Take Appreciator, for a new game.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: A new game that Dan Pfeiffer came up with called
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Two Takes and a Fake. Elijah, tell us all about it.
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: Yes, very excited, guys. Shiny new segment that we're going
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: to try out right now. Welcome to Two Takes and
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: a Fake. Listeners of the show... We'll note, as John
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: said that Dan suggested that we try this, it's our
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: take on the classic game Two Truths and a Lie.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: Here's how it works. I'm going to read you guys
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: three takes. The producers have seen these takes. John, John,
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: and Tommy have not. Two of the takes are real.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: One of the takes is fake. You three must decide
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: which one is fake. Then this game has three different rounds.
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: There are three different topics. And the way we're going
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: to gamify this a little bit more is you guys
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: are going to be playing against each other. You don't
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: have to come to a consensus. I suppose you can
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: come to a consensus if you want, but.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: No.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: You guys are competing.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: I want to beat them, okay? Yeah. All right.
• 51:35
  Speaker 3: Are you guys ready to play?
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Does the winner get a prize? Wait a minute. I
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: just got an idea. Does the loser... Does the loser
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: have to write a book report about Jared Kushner's new book?
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: You know what? You know what?
• 51:46
  Speaker 4: Listen, I want everyone to be home to understand what
• 51:50
  Speaker 4: it's like trying to be creative at this place.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: You throw out a new idea and you just get
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: shit on. You know what, Elijah?
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: We'll do it over at Pod Save the World. Tommy's
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: like early 80s Steve Jobs. He just thinks we should
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: think different. We're automatons with our PCs.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Look, I think I finally found a slot for that prize.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: I'm about to. Throw a hammer through a TV. What
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: are you about to do? Let's hear some takes.
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: Okay. The first topic is the queen. You guys may
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: have heard. Queen Elizabeth died last week, bringing her 70-year
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: reign to a close. Both mourners and takes.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Die off, queen.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: Both mourners and takes have gathered in observance. That brings
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: us to these takes. Two are real. One is a fake.
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: Here's the first.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry. But I'm seeing thousands of people outside of
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: Buckingham Palace and millions of people sending condolences from all
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: around the world. Twitter is not real and you don't
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: have to give in to the woke mob to be loved.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: That is number one.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: Take number two. I always thought of Queen Elizabeth as
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: an avatar of nepotism and colonialism. But as time went
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: on and victimhood became fashion, I began having creeping admiration
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: for her stoicism. And now, take number three. Right now,
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: we're seeing proof that monarchies have value because they last
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: a long time instead of being subject to the crazed
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: politicking of the day. All right, two takes and a fake.
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: Let me know if you need to repeat.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Any of those.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: So I'm not going to say which. I recognize one
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: of the takes. I've seen it.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I've experienced it. You want a fucking cookie? What does
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: that do for anyone? What does that do for anyone listening?
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: He's really upset from your previous comment. You really hurt him.
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: You really hurt him.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: Hurt people hurt people.
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: And that's what we're getting from Tommy. To your vote.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: I am going to say... Well, we have to do
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: it at the same time.
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: How does this work, CTO?
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: I think you guys just deliberate. Everyone brings their own.
• 54:01
  Speaker 3: You can agree, you can disagree with each other.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: I'm a one. Three. I was going to say two.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: Wow. That's good. Good take hunting.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: All right. The winner is Favreau. Take number one is
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: the fake.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Of course it is. Of course it is. I knew
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: it was one or two.
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: Two I knew. I recognized take two.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: Three is something you hear a lot. Is this part
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: of the game? You're going to give us who the
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: takes are from? Yeah.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: You want to guess for take number two? Do you
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: want to just tell us?
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: No. No, just tell us.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: Just tell us.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: It's Marine Dowd. Take number two is from Marine Dowd. Okay. Yeah.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: I could see that.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Where's take number three from?
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: Dave Rubin over at The Blaze.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: Right on.
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: One for me.
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: Come on, America. We don't like this. Royalty.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: It's bad.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: They should march to the town square. Their goods should
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: be taken from them and given to the people. I'm
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: surprised you.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Weren't invited on the special bonus episode of Pod Save
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: the World.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: I see Charles waving his little hand to get some
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: member of his team to remove something from in front
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: of him. And it's like, who the fuck are you?
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: You're just some guy with kind of oddly chubby fingers
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: telling people what to do. You don't deserve it. You
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: didn't do anything.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: He's got weird hands. He has some sausage fingers.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: Drink some water, Charles. You look dehydrated.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: What an incredibly nuanced take, the likes of which you
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: might find on Love.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: It or Leave It.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: I think you can hate the monarchy and all that
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: it stands for.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: And just have such admiration for this rich woman for
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: the power with which she brought to doing nothing.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: She seemed like a nice enough person.
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: No one has ever done so little for their country.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: No one could ever have done so much by doing nothing.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: There are many who have fallen prey to doing something
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: in their lives, but not our Queen Elizabeth II. How
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: lucky we were that for 70 years she did absolutely
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: fucking nothing.
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: Olivia's notes are like, cut all of this. No, leave
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: this in.
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: I don't care.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: It's hard. He kept looking at me the whole time.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: I'm looking at him the whole time.
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: He's staring right at me. Take control. I couldn't look
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: directly at him. Anyway, Elijah. Let's keep going. Keep going.
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: Speaking of the crown, I did know who Matt Smith
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: was for the record. Love it.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Of course you did.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Of course you did.
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: Let's move on to round number two, a new topic.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: I thought other producers were going to do something that
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: nobody said.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: It's just you.
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: No, I tried. And they were like, takes are your thing.
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: Like we don't have the sickness. Like they were like,
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: we don't have a sickness like you. And it was actually,
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: I was like, you don't like, so there'll be more
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: segments in the future. We want to expand the PSA
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: universe though. Olivia and Hallie did a great job working
• 56:38
  Speaker 3: on this with me today. They're, they're the best. All right.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: New topic.
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: Great.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Looks like enough. You derailed him and then you yelled
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: at him for being derailed?
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: You'll see him at the holiday party. Chill the fuck out.
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: Conflict works. The segment's going great. Topic number two, threats
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: to democracy. So recently, Joe Biden has called out MAGA
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: Republicans for trying to undermine democracy. Let's hear some takes
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: about it. These are all headlines. They're short and sweet.
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: So headline number one. Joe Biden's speech was worse than
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: simply being divisive. It was hypocritical. Headline number two. Democrats
• 57:23
  Speaker 3: were the first election deniers. Headline number three. Joe Biden
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: is disgracing the institution of the primetime presidential address. Which
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: one is the worst?
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: I got this one. Can you read me one and
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: two again? We all know three was written by Mark Thiessen.
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: So what's one and two?
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Whoa, you just gave it away.
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: I trust my boys. What's one and two?
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: One, Joe Biden's speech was worse than simply being divisive.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: It was hypocritical. Two, Democrats were the real first election deniers.
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: But that's a true thing I've seen out there.
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: I think number one is... the fake take. I do too.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: I agree.
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: I want you to just know that Mark Thiessen likes
• 58:06
  Speaker 4: to defend torture and write things that stupid and he's
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: yet still employed by the Washington Post.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: Talk about torture.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Read these columns.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: My predecessor.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: Team win. You guys win as a team. There you go.
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: Everyone's right. One was the fake one.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I'm still in the lead. It's just important. I'm in
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: the lead.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: John's in the lead.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Any comments on the state of democracy right now? The
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: discourse out there that Democrats are the real election deniers?
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: You're not going to bait me into that. That's a
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: real fun Twitter debate.
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: 2006, 31 Democrats in Ohio legislature. Don't want to go
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: down that rabbit hole.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: I'll just only say that I think there's a lot
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: of people in a mindset of just loving Queen Elizabeth.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: And I think it's because there are a fair number
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: of Americans who just wish to be fucking ruled. And
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: that's something to consider.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Okay. Stop. That was a strong take.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: All right. Before we move on to the last round,
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: just to recap, Favreau's up two to one to one.
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Elijah. Thanks, Lash.
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: How do you guys think this is going so far?
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: New segment.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Great. Really good. Really good. A little slow. Whose fault
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: is that?
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: Trying to bring a little pace here. As we move
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: on to topic number three, should be a home game
• 59:20
  Speaker 3: for Tommy. So the war in Ukraine. Because he's a world, though,
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: not because he's from Ukraine.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. I'm Russian, actually.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Yes, a light topic for the final one. Great job.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: Keep going.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: It was tough to either start out with, you know,
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: choose to start out with a banger and with the queen.
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: But anyway, war in Ukraine. This weekend, Ukrainians put on
• 59:42
  Speaker 3: a stunning counteroffensive. They retook huge chunks of territory from
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: the Russians and outperformed most expert expectations. Let's look at
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: some takes about it. Take number one. Let's be clear.
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: Joe Biden already lost the war for Western civilization. Putin
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: didn't withdraw from Afghanistan. Putin isn't teaching critical race theory
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: in Russian schools. Take number two.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: Jesus.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: Right now, things are going very, very badly, which is
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: why the Ukrainians are so desperate. The Biden administration is
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 3: trying to figure out how they retreat from their dumb
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: position that they've taken. And now take number three. As
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: Russia wages war, the United States Army is training officers
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: on gender identity, forcing soldiers to accept that one can
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: choose their gender creates frictions within an organization that is
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: dependent on unity. Which one is the fake?
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 4: Man, those all seem so real. There's versions of them
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: out there.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel one or two.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: I'm with you. Can you read the first two again? Yeah,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: read the first two. Phone a friend, phone a friend.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: Okay. Take number one. Let's be clear. Joe Biden has
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: already lost the war for Western civilization. Putin didn't withdraw
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: from Afghanistan. Putin isn't teaching critical race theory in Russian schools.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: Last part. Take number two. Right now, things are going very,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: very badly, which is why the Ukrainians are so desperate.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: The Biden administration is trying to figure out how they
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: retreat from the dumb position that they've taken.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: Two sounds like something Tucker Carlson said very recently.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: Two is colloquial. I'm very impressed by the crafting of
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: the fake take.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: I think I'm going to go one. I think I'm
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: going to go one. I'm going to go two, I think.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: God, you know, I'm really torn. I feel like I'm... Oh, no.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: I just don't want... There's no... I'm going two just
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: because it's the only way to come back.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: Wow, Favreau, strong win, two-point win. I felt it.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: I felt it.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: I felt it.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: Take number two is from Douglas McGregor, who is a
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: Ukraine war expert. He said that on Tucker Carlson's show
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: right at the start of the game for offense.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: I hadn't even seen it. I had it. I knew it.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: You had it. You should have gone with your gut, man.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: And then the third one is basically Ted Cruz said
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: something similar.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's been all over. That third one is an op-ed.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's an op-ed.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: It's from the Washington Free Beacon. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: Sure. You know what? This was great. Yeah, the Russian
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: army is not showing how tough they are. I love
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: this game. I'll play it all the time. I like
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: this game too. I would also like to- I'll challenge anyone.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: I'd like to.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: Implore pro-Ukraine Twitter that a successful Ukrainian offensive is not
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 4: a moment to retweet yourself from a few months ago.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: To show how right you are. That's a weird- with
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: your Twitter pic that's really self-absorbed.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: It's not a TV show.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: It's real people.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: It's just not a TV show.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 4: Also, people need to stop just constantly tweeting videos of
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: soldiers getting killed on either side.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: It's just their own snuff footage. Gamified war is not
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: a great development at all. No, long term, it's horrible
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: for everyone. One more thing, the internet is fucked up.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: Was that too serious to close? Sorry. No, that was
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: my bad.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: No, Ponce, Ponce, the world comes out tomorrow, so go
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: listen to me back since we'll talk about the counteroffensive.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: There we go. Elijah, thank you for our inaugural round
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: of two takes and a fake. We'll have to play
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: with Dan soon. Yeah. And also, thanks to Lindsay Owens
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: for joining us today.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: She's great.
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: Thanks to all of you. And looks like you two
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: will be writing a, get that book report about Jared
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: Kushner's book soon.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: This game is rigged.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Do any day now.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: Stop the steal. Love it. Pod Save America is a
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein. Our producers are Olivia
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: Martinez and Haley Muse. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: to Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montooth. Our
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crooked media.