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How To Tell Your Kids You're Getting A Divorce · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

0:07
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, the podcast.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: Finding the space for all of you in life and love.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their life.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations meet you right there.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: In soulful, deeply supportive DNMs with me and interviews with other gorgeous humans, moving you from where you are to where you most want to be.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: A life and love completely aligned with your deepest desires to have it all on your own terms.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: If you're seeking a relationship and a life that lights up all of you, you're in the right place.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: I'd also like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the traditional lands of the Wurundri people and pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging, and acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: And today is part two.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Part two of how to tell your kids about your divorce.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: How to tell your kids you're getting divorced.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Now, there's a lot of research that suggests there are three main factors which help kids of any age adjust best when their parents divorce, separate divorce.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: One is having a really strong connected relationship with both parents.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Two, good parenting or at least good enough parenting, consistent present parenting, yes, preferably from both, but at least one parent.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: And the third thing that helps kids adjust best when their parents' divorce is limited or minimal exposure to conflict.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: So if you're in that, should I stay, should I go, how is this going to affect my kids' stage?
2:06
SPEAKER_00: If you're asking those questions, know that having a strong connected relationship with both parents, good enough parenting from at least one parent, and limited exposure to conflict is the best way to support your kids through divorce.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: It's also really important to keep the lines of communication open between you and the kids, and if at all possible, if it's possible, if it's safe, if it's healthy to do so, keeping the communication lines open between you and their other parent.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: Kids benefit from having open, honest conversations about the changes that their family is experiencing is going through and what they're experiencing.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: They benefit from being able to ask questions and have honest answers given to them.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: It allows them to process their emotions, it allows them to feel more stable and secure in what's coming next when they know what will change and what will stay the same.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Open, honest conversations, age and stage appropriate, are really important.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: It's also helpful, if you can, to give the kids a little bit of time, a few weeks, some months, to adjust to the news before moving them or anyone to a new space.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: And this is not always possible.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: But if they can stay in their home while the initial changes swirl around them, it's helpful.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: And if after the initial telling there's not someone immediately leaving, it can also help them adjust and process.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: Again, not always possible, not always achievable with every family, but if you can, it is helpful.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: With my clients, I really encourage them to do a few things before they tell their children to really prep themselves so that they can do the telling in a really healthy way.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: So questions I would ask them to explore, or we would explore in a coaching situation, coaching session, would be things like, what are your values?
4:06
SPEAKER_00: What are your life values?
4:08
SPEAKER_00: And how are they going to, how are you going to hold to them?
4:11
SPEAKER_00: How are they going to inform how you move through your separation and your divorce?
4:15
SPEAKER_00: So what are your values?
4:17
SPEAKER_00: And the big one I always ask my clients, and if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you've probably heard me say it before.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: How do you want your life to be in two, five, ten, twenty years' time?
4:28
SPEAKER_00: But when we're talking about telling the kids, I flip that a little bit.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: How do you want your kids to feel in two, five, ten years' time when they think back on or reflect on this time in your family's life?
4:40
SPEAKER_00: When they reflect on this time in this moment in their life?
4:44
SPEAKER_00: How do you want your kids to feel when they think back to this time?
4:49
SPEAKER_00: That can really be helpful in informing how you navigate this conversation, how you open the conversation with them.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: So who do you want to be now and in your future, two, five, ten years' time?
5:01
SPEAKER_00: What's going to be most important to you?
5:02
SPEAKER_00: What values do you want to carry with you?
5:05
SPEAKER_00: What values are most important to you?
5:07
SPEAKER_00: And how do you want your kids to feel when they think back on this time?
5:12
SPEAKER_00: What are you committed to?
5:14
SPEAKER_00: What are you committing to as you, as the parent, the mother, the father, as you manage your this transition for your family?
5:23
SPEAKER_00: I often lead clients through creating a manifesto for their divorce.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: How you will handle things, including how you will tell your kids and what you will and won't share with them.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: So value your values and all those other questions I raised can help inform you developing this manifesto.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: And if you choose to go down that path, write out your commitment to yourself.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: Write it out as a manifesto, even as a letter to your kids, a promise to your kids.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: What are you willing to do?
5:52
SPEAKER_00: How are you willing to show up, behave, communicate as you move through this incredibly difficult life change?
6:00
SPEAKER_00: And how will that be for your kids?
6:02
SPEAKER_00: What are you promising to hold to for your kids?
6:05
SPEAKER_00: What's most important to you as you navigate this whole reorganization of your family?
6:12
SPEAKER_00: Again, if you can discuss all of this stuff together with your soon-to-be ex, with your co-parent, before you even tackle the how to tell the kids topic.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: So discuss all of this stuff: the values, the manifesto.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: And if you can't do that together, know that you can still do it.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: You can do it for yourself, you can do it for your kids, you can write your own manifesto or make an oath to yourself about how you are committing to showing up, behaving, communicating, and what's most important to you and how you're going to use that to guide you in supporting your kids.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: So telling the kids.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: Remember when you are telling the kids or when you are developing the script that you're going to share with them, the goal in telling your children is not to win, it's not to score points, it's not to lay blame.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: It is really, really important, and I can't stress this enough, it's really important to keep this discussion and future discussions, not just the first one, but keep this discussion really firmly focused on what's best for them, what's best for the kids.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Explaining and demonstrating that yes, this is sad and it's hard and it's heartbreaking.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: It's actually the best decision for everyone.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: So keep that focus on what is in the kids' best interests in this initial discussion and any future discussions.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Some other things to think about as you prepare to tell your kids that you're getting divorced.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Again, sort of how do you want your kids to remember how you navigated this?
7:54
SPEAKER_00: What do you want them to think about and how do you want them to feel when they look back on it?
7:59
SPEAKER_00: How do you want to demonstrate healthy behavior to them?
8:03
SPEAKER_00: It's almost like what legacy, what divorce legacy do you want to leave for them?
8:08
SPEAKER_00: How do you want them to tell their story of your divorce?
8:12
SPEAKER_00: So what think about what do you want to teach them about doing really hard things with love and kindness and compassion and grace and respect.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: Because this is actually a learning opportunity for them.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: You get you get a really shitty opportunity, but you get an opportunity to teach them how to navigate really hard things and do it in healthy, healing ways, with integrity, with truth, with honesty.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: I also challenge you to ask yourself what do they really need to know and what is not really necessary for them to know?
8:49
SPEAKER_00: Question your motivation before you share any details with them.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Question yourself, is this actually in their best interests?
8:56
SPEAKER_00: Is this helpful for the children to know?
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Is it supportive of the kids and of the kids?
9:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, is this sharing this thing that you're thinking about sharing, is it supportive of my kids for me to tell them this particular thing or share this information or share this part of the story with them?
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Also, is it actually kind for them to know?
9:18
SPEAKER_00: Is it kind for for me to share this bit?
9:21
SPEAKER_00: Is it necessary?
9:22
SPEAKER_00: Is it kind?
9:23
SPEAKER_00: Is it supportive?
9:24
SPEAKER_00: Because some details are really, really best left for the adults to handle.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: But I'm gonna speak more to that a bit later on.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Some things are best left unspoken when it comes to your kids.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Some other important things to consider before you have the big conversation is around planning.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Plan how you can potentially minimize the disruption to the children's daily routine.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: Plan how you can, as a family reorganizing after a separation, keep things as similar as possible for the children, including at each parent's home.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: So if you're up to the two home phase, how can you keep things as similar as possible for the kids?
10:08
SPEAKER_00: If you can run with similar daily routines, it does make everyone's life easier.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: Plan how you can keep the kids out of the mess as much as possible.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: How you can keep them as much as is possible removed from any obvious visible conflict, any heated conversations, any legal talk, including when you first tell them about the divorce.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: It's really important to try and present the info to the kids calmly, respectfully, using really neutral tone and language, without arguing or disagreeing with each other, without making it any messy or more difficult than it already is.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: A united front is helpful, not always possible.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: Again, I'm going to speak to more to that a bit later.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: A united front presenting information that is age and stage appropriate, kindly, respectfully, without conflict, can really be supportive of your kids.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: If you can have a plan about what the next steps will look like and explain to them clearly what's going to happen next.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: For example, you kids will stay here and mum or dad will be going to live or sh or stay at XYZ for now.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: Even if it's just a for now solution or plan, be ready with something about what's going to happen next so the kids aren't left worrying and wondering.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: Give them that security that they know what's coming next, even if it is, as I said, a for now kind of plan.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: And if you are up to that two homes scenario where one of you has another space to move into, plan what each home can look like.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: Plan that, you know, plan having similar stuff, familiar stuff at each home.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: Double-ups of some of the basics can be really supportive and it can minimize what the kids have to remember to move back and forth, or you have to remember, because most kids, even bigger kids, hate lugging their stuff and back and forth between two homes.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: And from my personal experience, I can guarantee you they will forget stuff.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: So if you can have double-ups of the basics, if that's financially and practically possible for you, it just makes life easier.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: So keeping things familiar, keeping things, keeping routines familiar is really, really supportive.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: It can also be really helpful to actually make sure that the second home, the new one, feels like a home, not just an empty space that the kids go to visit.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: So again, having some familiar things, having photographs, having you know, nice bedding, and just things to make it feel like a home so that they feel at home in both places.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I also encourage my clients to speak about your home with dad and your home with mum rather than dad's house or mum's house.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: Um so just subtly shifting, excuse the kookaburry in the background, um, subtly shifting the way we speak about the houses that the children are moving between can really help and support them.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: The other thing that I'm really encouraging of, if it is safe, if it is healthy for you to do so, is to stay connected as parents, as co-parents.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: Keep each other informed and involved in their lives, in what they're processing, in how they're going, keep each other in the loop, keep each other updated, and to that end, a shared calendar or a co-parenting app can be really supportive, a family email address, a new email address that everybody has for kids' activities, school, etc.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: etc., can be really helpful.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: So now to the actual telling the kids.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: And of course, I'm gonna speak to ideal case scenario, but it's not always going to be possible for every family.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: All right.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: So, firstly, if you can agree on the story, agree what you will and what you won't share with the children.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: If you can, write down what you're gonna what you plan to say, share it with each other, map it out together.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: You can even give your kids a copy, age and stage appropriate, of course, but have a plan about what you're going to share and what you're not going to share, what's off limits.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, infidelity, financial stuff really doesn't need to be shared with the children.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, so if you can keep them out of that messy stuff and just speak to what's happening for them and what they need to know, it is really healthy and helpful.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: So even if you're disagreeing about almost everything else, try, try, try to agree on what you're going to tell your children.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, if you have written a manifesto or a promise to your kids, you can share that too.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: You can print it out, you can put it on the fridge so that they have access to it as well.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you can't agree on what to tell, if you're in such conflict that you can't agree what to tell, you can still do all these things for yourself.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: You can outline your values, you can write your manifesto, you can share what you want to share with your kids.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: And if they're getting a different story from the other parent, you can also say, ah, that's something really between dad and I, that's really something between mum and I.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, I will I will come back to you on that, or something like that.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: You can throw water on a fire, basically.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that's adult stuff.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: You don't really need to be worried about that at the moment.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: Not completely shut your kid down, answer the question to a point, but also acknowledge that some things are not theirs to hold and share.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Back to how to tell.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: If you can agree on a time, and if it is at all possible, it's really important to do the telling together, allowing time afterwards for the kids to ask any questions.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Telling your children together avoids confusion.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: And also tell all of the kids all at the same time.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: Don't tell one and then tell the other.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Call them all together, tell them to with both parents present if you can.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: That way they hear one version of the story, and it also can help demonstrate that it was a mutual decision.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Or it's mutually agreed, it might not be a mutual decision to separate, but it's mutually agreed that this is what we're doing next.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Keep it calm, keep it kind, keep it compassionate, and again, keep it focused on the kids.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: Really make that firm commitment not to argue, not to cut each other off or talk down or overshare before or during the telling or afterwards.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Just really make that firm commitment.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: And again, if it's not coming back at you from the other side, hold the moral and ethical high ground and choose to behave like that because it is in the best interests of your kids.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: When you are telling, also try not to have a time limit on the discussion, like one of you has to leave, or one of you has to go to work.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: Allow time for the children to process what's being said, to feel all the feelings, and to ask all the questions before taking that next step and you know, having someone leave the family house or having someone leave to go on a business trip or having someone whatever.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: If it has to be that way, be really clear about where that parent is going, how the children can be in touch with them and when they'll see them next.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Give your kids that time to adjust, allow them to ask any questions, bearing in mind you don't need to answer every nitty gritty question.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: You can say, Well, that's actually private between me and your dad or me and your mum, but what I can tell you is dot dot dot.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: And it's about how things are going to move forward, how they can communicate with their other parent, where they're going to live, all those things.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, do be honest and acknowledge the sadness and the pain involved for your children, also for yourself and for your ex.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: Don't minimize or disallow that sadness and allow them to share all of the emotions that come up for them.
18:09
SPEAKER_00: They might, they may even, and some kids do, they might even feel guilty because they're relieved.
18:15
SPEAKER_00: They're relieved that the tension and the conflict that they've been experiencing in their family is going to shift, they're going to have a different experience.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: So don't be surprised if it's not just all sad and doom and gloom.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: There might be some other experiences, other emotions that come up.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: So let all of their emotions be welcome.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: Let all of what they share with you be okay.
18:37
SPEAKER_00: And to that end, be okay too with expressing your own feelings and emotions.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: You get to demonstrate how to how to deal with big emotions and big life experiences in in healthy ways.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: And when I say be okay with expressing your own emotions and feelings, again, age and stage appropriate in regard with regard to your kids and without burdening them with it, without making them feel like they have to fix it or they have to help you feel happy again.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: It is perfectly fine to admit that you're sad, you're upset, you're hurt, even a bit angry, or like them, you know, you're a little bit relieved that maybe things will be calmer and happier.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: But it's really important not to overlay that on your kids.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: So it's really important to allow them to see that, yeah, sometimes you're going to be sad, sometimes you're going to be upset, but not to burden them with that and may and to really be clear with them, even even stating, telling them, yes, I'm sad, but it's not your job to fix this.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: And that nothing they did or did not do has led to this.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Nothing that they, there's nothing they can do to change what's happening.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: Again, more on that a little bit later.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: So, as well as modeling healthy ways of dealing with big emotions, you also get to model really respectful ways of interacting and communicating with your ex, no matter, no matter how angry, annoyed, pissed off, or heartbroken you are.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: It's a real opportunity to teach your kids.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Probably an opportunity you wish you didn't have to have, however.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, back to telling them.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Do tell the truth.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: Tell the truth, but keep it simple.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Keep it age and stage appropriate, strip out what they don't need to know, but do tell the truth.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to tell all those nitty-gritty details.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: No one has to be cast in the bad cop role here.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Don't lie, do tell the truth.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Don't lie even to protect them, and don't make promises you can't keep.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: It's okay to say, I don't know the answer to that right now, but when I do, I'll let you know.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: If there's uncertainty about what's going to happen, if there's uncertainty about, for example, selling selling the house or where the dog's gonna live, giving answers like, for now, we're gonna do X, and that might need to change in the future, but we'll talk about that together so there are no big surprises.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: Conversations like that can be really, really helpful if you don't know the answers, or if it's a truth that you don't want to share.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: Explain why without giving all the details.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: For example, be prepared to give them some general explanation without blame.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Something like, our family's gonna change, we're always gonna be a family, but we're just not gonna live together anymore.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: Mum and I, dad and I hope this would never happen, but we can't haven't been able to fix the problems in our relationship, or we both want different things in our lives.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: We like each other, we want to be friends, but we don't work well as a team anymore when we live in the same house.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: So mum's gonna go and live X, or dad's gonna go and live Y.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Remember that these are really grown up problems that your kids, even smart and mature kids, can't understand.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Understand or process yet.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: So keep it truthful, yes, but also keep it simple.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Avoid blaming, criticizing, speaking badly about your ex, their other parent.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Take all the shame and the blame and the criticism out of the discussion.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Keep it really kind, keep it compassionate, keep it respectful.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: Keep it honest, but keep it simple and tell them only what they need to know.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: There doesn't need to be that good cop, bad cop role cast for either of you, even if you really, really, really would love to dump your ex in it.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: That's not for the kids.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: That's for you to process.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: However hurt or angry you might be, don't blame your spouse, your ex, their other parent for the breakup.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: And again, really avoid that argument or conflict in front of the children.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: Again, I'm gonna say it again and again.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: Really keep to yourself any details that are really not theirs to know.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: Extramarital affairs, financial problems, legal stuff.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Keep it age and stage appropriate, keep it to what they need to know.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Oversharing, too many details, too many of the adult details, too many of the private details really is difficult for kids, even older kids, teenagers, even adult children.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: It's hard for them to process and it and it actually divides them in terms of their loyalty.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: They feel they have to choose.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: So if you can share the story without shame or blame or criticism, it allows them to remain connected with both parents, which takes me right back to the beginning.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: Those three things that are really important in children, kids being able to move through divorce, the divorce of their parents in healthy ways.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: A connective relationship with both parents.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: If you're oversharing the nitty-gritty details, the adult stuff, it makes it harder for them to stay, them, the kids to stay connected to both of you.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: So do let your kids know that you want them to continue loving both of their parents, their mom and their dad, or their two mums, their two dads, that they don't have to choose between you ever.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Give them full permission to like, to love, to remain connected with both of you, even if you'd really like to dump your ex in it.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: They need to believe in and love both of their parents.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: Now, if there are bigger issues, drug or alcohol issues, mental health issues, or other issues that mean your kids might not be seeing their other parent for a while because it's not safe for them to do so.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: You can you can say something like Mum or Dad is is making some choices that mean you can only speak with them on the phone for a little while, or similar if you really need to.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: So do give them permission and access to their other parent, even if it's not safe for them to spend physical time with them.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: And again, reassure them that nothing they did or didn't do caused this, none of it is their fault, and they don't need or they can't, they don't need they can't do anything to try and fix this for you.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Lots of children, even older children, secretly hope that their parents will get back together.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: So reinforce to them that nothing they did or didn't do caused this, none of it's their fault, and it is not it's not likely to change.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: Do let your kids know what this decision to separate, to divorce, to split will look like on a practical level, how it will affect them in the short term, even if you're not quite sure of all the details, as I said before.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Keep it simple: who's going to move out, where will they move to, when they'll see their other parent.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Reassure them that they can call or message or FaceTime their other parent at any time.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: Reassure them by telling them what will stay the same: school, sport, other activities, connection with other family members, and also what will need to change.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, what will stay the same.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Your love for them as parents.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: School's going to stay the same.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Activities, special times as a family, if if this is possible, special times as a family, birthdays and and so on.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, the tour, their toys, their stuff, all their things.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: It's all still yours.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: Some of it will move with you as you shift between your house with mum and your house with dad, and we'll try to minimize what you have to shift.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, grandma, grandpa, family.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: We're still a family, that doesn't change.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: We're still a family even if we don't live together in the one house all of the time.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: Really reassure them that they will always be cared for, always be protected, always be loved, and that they will be your number one priority moving forward.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: That you'll always be there for them and that your love as parents for them is unconditional and never-ending.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Remind them again and again and again that it's not their fault, it's not because of something they did and didn't do, that you'll both love them deeply forever and always.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Kids often question the concept of unconditional, never-ending love because if you're separating, if you're getting divorced, is it because you don't love dad anymore, or is it because mum doesn't love you anymore?
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Is it, you know, so I tend to, with younger kids, not bring love into the conversation.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: We're not getting divorced because we don't love each other anymore.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: We're getting divorced because we're not great friends, we're not a great team.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: We think that we would make better parents for you if we lived in different houses.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: That allows you to reinforce to them that your love for them as parents is not conditional, it's unconditional and it is never-ending.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: If they raise the issue of love, you can explain to them, you know, there are different kinds of love and there are different types of love.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: There is the love that you have for chocolate, and there is the love that you have for your dog, and there's the love that you have for the footy, and there's the love that you have for your sister, your brother, your mum, your dad, your grandpa.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: That love that we have for you as parents that never goes away.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: It never, it never changes, it's never ending.
28:04
SPEAKER_00: So you can talk about the concept of love like that.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: I just tend to, with younger children particularly, to think keeping the love out of the initial conversation, the love, you know, keeping love out of the initial conversation is actually quite helpful in many circumstances, not all.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: And if they ask, be ready to answer.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Do tell them that they are loved and they are lovable and nothing will ever change, and make it easy for your kids to love both their parents by keeping them out of the mess, keeping them out of the conflict.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: Another really important part of telling your kids is actually to stay present in the moment, but also stay future focused.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: And I think this is one of the hardest parts.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: It gets easier as time goes on, but in that initial conversation, it's really hard.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: Do stay focused on you know that two, five, ten, twenty years time, that moment.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: How do you want to feel?
29:00
SPEAKER_00: How do you want your life to feel?
29:01
SPEAKER_00: How do you want your kids' lives to feel?
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Stay focused on your values, your commit, your commitment, hard to say, your commitment to yourself, what you've declared in that manifesto, and the future that you're building for yourself and for your kids.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: So now to some actual scripts, some opening lines and some things that you might find helpful.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: I am going to develop a download for this.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: So click check the show notes and um click through, and you'll be able to just download a PDF of these scripts.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: So you can open with something like, We have something important we need to talk with you about.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: You can open with our family, the way our family, um, the way our family is is going to change.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: We both love you very much.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Like make sure you you use the love in, you know, in that.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: We we love you both very much, and we want to be the very best mum and dad, mum and mum, dad and dad for you.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: We want to be the very best parents that we can be for you.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: And we aren't doing a great job of being a good parenting team living in the same house.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: So we've decided, blah blah blah, blah.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: We've decided that living apart as friends will be better for us and for our family.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: Then go on to some of the practical parts.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: You know, we've decided that starting next month or whatever it is, mum and I will take turns being at the family house, or mum and dad, mom or dad will be living XYZ, so we won't be with you at the same time anymore.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: We'll take turns getting to spend time with you.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: In some ways, this might be harder on you, and in other ways it might be a little bit easier.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: Some things will change when and how much time you spend with each of us, but lots of things will still be the same.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: School will still be the same, your friends will still be the same, grandparents, activities, all the things.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Add in what's appropriate for you and your unique circumstances, your family.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: If you already know, you can actually go into the nitty-gritty.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: You'll be with mum X number of sleeps a week, and you'll be with dad for X number of sleeps a week.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: You can also acknowledge that this is really new, and this is new for all of us, and it's going to feel a little different, it's going to be uncomfortable.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: There might be things that we have to navigate, shift and change a little bit, but we will help you.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk with you about it, and you can always talk with us about what's coming up for you.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: You can telephone, message, FaceTime, Zoom with the parent that you're not spending time with at any time.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, also important in there is to say, you know, these are adult grown-up problems, these are not your problems to solve or fix.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: None of this is your fault, nothing you've done or not not done has caused these adult problems, and you can't fix or change them.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: Nothing you did or said made this happen, and you've done nothing wrong or bad.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: Again, you know, age and stage appropriate, the way you would frame that for teenagers is really different to the way you'd frame it for small children.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, and to further to the love con, you know, the love question, no matter what, we love you, we both love you very much.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: And the kind of love that we have for you is the kind of love that never ever ends or goes away.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: And as your parents, we're going to continue to take care of you, we're going to continue to love you, we're just going to be doing it in two homes instead of the one.
32:37
SPEAKER_00: Again, talk about your house with mum, your house with dad rather than mum's house, dad's house.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: Really keeps it focused on the kids, your house with mum.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: You know, you can say when mum or dad is away from you, he, she will still be loving you just the same, and you can call, FaceTime, message whenever you like.
32:57
SPEAKER_00: Next phase is offering them the opportunity to ask any questions.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Is there anything that we haven't told you that you would like to know?
33:06
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any questions?
33:08
SPEAKER_00: And make it really obvious.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: You can ask absolutely anything, and we will give you our very best answers.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: Doesn't mean you're going to tell them all the nitty-gritty details, but you'll give them your very best answer.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: And if they ask something that you can't or you're not ready to answer, that's a really good question.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: And right now I can't give you an answer to that.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: I know it's hard to feel uncertain about things, and as soon as I know the answer to your question, I will let you know.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: Or again, that's something really that's private between mum and dad.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, but what I can tell you is dot dot dot dot dot.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: If you do know who's going to be moving out or what the living arrangements are, that parent can say, now I'm going to be going to stay at XYZ, or I'm going to be looking for a new house for us to live in and spend time in in XYZ.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: I will keep, and again, reinforce what is going to stay the same.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: I will continue to take you to school, to soccer, to gymnastics, whatever it is.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: You'll be living here in the house with mum or with dad, and you'll keep going to the same school, seeing your friends and doing your usual things, and I'll be here sometimes for X or Y or Z.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: So really step it out clearly and precisely so that they know.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: Again, allow their feelings.
34:29
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to share anything with me?
34:31
SPEAKER_00: Whatever you feel is okay, and it's okay for you to feel whatever you feel.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, again, reflect back to them.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: You might see us looking sad or even crying sometimes, and even though we are sad, we're okay.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: We'll be okay, and we're always here to take care of you.
34:47
SPEAKER_00: It's not your job to fix our sadness, although we can help each other when we're sad with hugs and so on and so forth.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: Be prepared for questions they might ask you.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: If you haven't used the D word, if you haven't used the divorce word, but you've just said we're not going to be living in the same house, they might ask, does that mean you're getting divorced?
35:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it does mean we're getting divorced, but we what will stay the same?
35:15
SPEAKER_00: We are still a family and we always will be.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: Now we'll just be a different kind of family that lives in two houses.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Mum and dad are really good friends who care about each other.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: Most of all, we love you more than anything, and that will never change.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: Again, ask if they have any questions or they want to say anything.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: Other questions they might ask you, the classic, you know, where we live and how will things be different, and you can step that out.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: Will we still spend time together sometimes as a family?
35:42
SPEAKER_00: And you can answer that in terms of what's right for your family.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: Some families, yes, some divorced couples no.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: Who will I live with?
35:51
SPEAKER_00: When will I see the other person?
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Will we have to move house?
35:54
SPEAKER_00: Will we have to sell the house?
35:56
SPEAKER_00: What about school?
35:57
SPEAKER_00: Where will the dog live?
35:59
SPEAKER_00: It's very interesting that often kids fixate on the dog or the cat or the pets as well as the house.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: So they want to know where everything is going to fit and how it's going to fit together.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, they might ask about holidays or birthdays or or Christmas.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: Small children might ask, what about if I miss my mum when I'm with my dad?
36:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, and you can explain how that would look for them.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, we'll both help to arrange you a phone call or a FaceTime chat with the parent that you mess that you're missing.
36:31
SPEAKER_00: You can call, message FaceTime whenever you like.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, what should I tell my friends?
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Often this comes up later when they've processed it a little bit.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, who else knows?
36:44
SPEAKER_00: How do I tell my friends?
36:45
SPEAKER_00: What about the teachers at school?
36:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, so be prepared to support them through uh them sharing a bit more widely.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: So giving them some tips and strategies about how to tell and what to tell can be helpful and supportive for the kids.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: So, recapping the top tips on how to tell your kids you're getting divorced, agree on, write down, even rehearse if you can what you'll say before you say it.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: You can write it down and give it to them if you if you feel that would be supportive.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: You can do your pre-work, write your manifesto, commit to your values, all of that stuff.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: But agree, if you, if at all possible, agree on what you'll say and what's not necessary for them to know.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: Tell your kids together, if you can, together as parents, and all the kids together, if there's more than one child in your family.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: Tell them all at once.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: Reassure them that they are loved and that this will never change.
37:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes, some types of love change, but not the love that you have for them as their parents.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: Tell the truth, keep it simple, keep the details private, share with them in an age and stage appropriate manner.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: Don't overshare.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Keep the shame and the blame and the criticism out of the discussion, yes, out of the initial discussion, and if at all possible, keep it out of future discussions.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: Allow them to have that connected, full relationship with both of their parents by keeping your communication kind and compassionate and respectful.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: Don't criticize or talk down about the other parent in front of the kids.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Let your kids know what the decision to split will look like, how it'll affect them in the short term, even if you're not quite sure of all the details.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Keep it simple.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: Who's going to move out?
38:38
SPEAKER_00: Where will they go?
38:38
SPEAKER_00: When will they next see their other parent?
38:41
SPEAKER_00: Reassure them that they can have full access, FaceTime, voice, um, phone calls, message, whatever.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: So give them the details.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: Just enough.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: Don't give them a 10-year plan.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: Just give them enough that they need, give them enough so that they know what's coming next.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: Reassure them that the separation had nothing to do with them.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Remind them again and again if you need to.
39:03
SPEAKER_00: It's not their fault and they can't fix it.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: It's not their job, it's not their responsibility to fix it.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: Take your time.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: Give your kids time to process and adjust.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Allow them to ask any questions, remembering that you don't have to answer the nitty-gritty, dirty details.
39:19
SPEAKER_00: Model healthy ways of dealing with big emotions.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: Allow them to share all of the emotions to come up with and model respectful ways of interacting and communicating with your ex, no matter how angry or heartbroken you are.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: Something I didn't mention earlier, but is probably worth mentioning here.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: Do watch for changes in your kids' behavior.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Keep your routines as familiar as you can and try to limit what they have to lug or how they have to do it, but watch for changes in behavior.
39:49
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there's regressive behavior in children, sometimes they act out at school.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: So just they might seem fine around you, but other behaviours might start manifesting.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: So just keep your eye on that.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: Do make it easy for your kids to love and be connected with both parents by keeping them out of the conflict and not forcing them into messenger or spirals, which I didn't talk, I didn't really talk about.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: But oftentimes, kids, um, if there's conflict between parents and they are moving between two houses, they get asked questions about what's happening at the other house.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: So they feel like they have to spy on their parent and report back, or they're delivering messages between two houses.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: So keep them out of the conflict, communicate, commune I can't say it, communicate directly with your co-parent rather than going through the kids.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: Make it easy for your kids to love both their parents.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: Stay future focused, keep your eye on the prize of that two, five, ten years' time.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: How do you want that new version of your family to look and feel?
40:56
SPEAKER_00: Because you're still a family, you're always gonna be a family, even if you don't all live in the same house.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: I hope you've got a little bit of something out of this episode that can support you to have those hard conversations with your kids.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: And again, it's gonna be not just a one-off conversation, there'll be many conversations that you have with your kids about this, and they'll be ongoing because things shift and change.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: So don't forget to download the PDF conversation openers, I guess.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: Um that'll be in the show notes.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: And if you have liked this episode, or if you know anyone that you think would benefit from listening to this, please feel free to share.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, you can even share it with your co-parent before you tell your kids.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: As always, I so appreciate you being here.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for sharing time with me.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Until next episode.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at ReflectCoaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
42:20
SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: Until then.