Latest / The Leader in You / 107. When “I’m Fine” Isn’t Fine: How Leaders Can Create Safety When Someone Is Struggling

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107. When “I’m Fine” Isn’t Fine: How Leaders Can Create Safety When Someone Is Struggling · The Leader in You

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Experience work interactions in a different and refreshing light.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: We bring the signs of attachment and emotional connection with insight from the last 20 years to share how you can overcome conflict issues at work and build strong team relationships as well as the connected culture.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Paulina, and I'm so excited to be here with the amazing Dr.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Lola Gershfeld.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I'm actually so excited about today's topic because we kind of briefly mentioned it last week.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And September, as you know, or maybe you don't know, it is Suicide Prevention Month.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought this would be a fantastic, resourceful conversation that we can have to help support the community and your team members at work and your organization with some ways to recognize how you can support people if they're really struggling and to really understand what happens when people struggle and how can we be there for others.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they do feel like they are not alone and they do feel like they're supported in the workplace environment.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just want to pause because it's such an important topic.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know so many people when they feel um disconnected, they don't know how to talk about it, they uh make a mistake, or they somehow um you know feel that their CEO, the leader is not supporting them and they they just shut down and it becomes so hard for people to understand what's going on for them and how to approach that conversation.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love the topic today.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, so important.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that it's I think that you know, if we take a look at the big picture of the EMC process and the effects that it has on teams and people and their relationships inside of work and also outside of work, I think it's important to really recognize what is the end result?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: What are we trying to achieve when we use the EMC process and we really integrate it into our communication ways?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what is that end result?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that we want?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think ultimately, and I will I will have you answer this uh kind of more in a scientific way, Dr.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Lola, but ultimately people want to feel that they can communicate easily and freely about what is happening with them.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't feel ashamed to talk about it and they don't feel uncomfortable or scared to have conversations that are difficult.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: People feel free and confident and comfortable and you know open to have any sort of conversations, no matter whether they're difficult, no matter whether they are they are struggling with another relationship, or maybe it's a struggle between two coworkers and they're the manager.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So this is kind of ultimately the goal where we can have free this free style of communication where we feel heard, validated, understood, seen, and we create those securely attached relationships.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have that fear of communicating those things and communicating our needs.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think, Dr.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Lola?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think communicating our needs is key in creating that for sure secure relationship.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: But you said something very important is that we definitely need to feel safe.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: We need to feel safe to come and reach and share what is happening with us because when we feel stressed, our first and foremost response to that stress is to reach to somebody and especially reach to people that we uh depend on, that we care about, and our coworkers or our manager are such important, uh play a really, really important role on the safety of our state of being on our nervous system and the way we behave at work and the way we show up at work.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I completely agree with you is that the EMC process gives you a structure where those conversations create more and more security.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of like creates a safe haven and secure base.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: What uh I remember John Balby, for example, was reading about him.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, he talked about the importance of creating that safe haven and secure base for um where people feel safe to share, regain their balance, and then go out in the world and risk.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of brings me to the topic of the culture oftentimes we see at work.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: I like to call it like the it's fine culture.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, because I think like really helping when we talk about suicide prevention, we want to how do we help in a preventive preventative way?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: How do we help support our coworkers and our team members or our director ports or our, you know, if we're managers and we're running a team or managing a team, how do we support them in the best way where they do feel like it's preventative, where we can recognize these signs that they are maybe disconnected or they're not feeling safe emotionally, and we can help support them, bring them back to balance and bring them back to a safe environment.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I notice is when people say it's fine, fine, don't worry about it, it's fine.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: That term oftentimes is like we are indirectly dismissing how we're experiencing the situation.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's first and foremost is like, oh, we're dismissing our own experience.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: But oftentimes the it's fine is a cover to our fear and shame of addressing what's actually happening with us.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say we're in a situation, Dr.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Lola, at work, and you hear a coworker or you hear one of your employees or you hear one of your managers say, it's fine.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: What would be the best next step someone can do to help support that person?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because that is like a signal.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: You hear the word it's fine, that's a signal, okay, there's something happening.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think I I like your question.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: So when people say it's fine, what happens to them is we have to also recognize in what context they're saying it's fine, you know, is the tone of voice, it's fine, their facial expression, it's fine.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, almost like giving the message like uh just leave it, just leave it as is, like don't don't worry about it, don't get into involved.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we want to do is one of the responses we can expare or express to the other person is that I hear you.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I hear that you think it's fine.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see it's fine, right?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we're trying to do is we're trying to say validation.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: We accept, like, yeah, it make maybe it makes sense for you that it's fine.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: However, I notice that there is a disconnection happening and you are important to me, your relationship is important to me, and I want to make sure that everything is okay with us.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: When you say it's fine, it tells me that there is something going on already underneath that fine.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important to recognize, like you said, it's a first sign that there's a disconnection happening, and how do we create safety for the person to share what's going on with them?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the way we do that is by validating their experience, by accepting and reassuring.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Those are three things that helps the helps the other person to get the message that they are important to us, you care about them, and you care about their experience.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's give um our viewers the actionable steps.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So an employee or coworker says it's fine.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: What is the response?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing is reflect.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: I hear that you're saying it's fine.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: I hear it's you're saying it's fine, and it's probably maybe you feel uncomfortable to share what's going on.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the first step always is to reflect what is happening in the moment.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I hear that you're saying it's fine, and then we accept.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I recognize that for you maybe it's fine because you don't want to talk about it, and then validate.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to know, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want you to know that your experience matters to me.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever is experiencing, what the whatever you're experiencing is important to me, and then I reassure to say, you're important to me.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I care about your experience, I care about you, and I want to be sure to make sure that you are not uh, whatever you're experiencing, I want to be there for you.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so they should respond in that way.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, it will it will create a little bit of safety, and then the person might say, Maybe, you know, I uh maybe thank you, or they might say, No, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine, right?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then you basically give them a sense, okay.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here for you when you're ready to talk.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here for you.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're important to me, and I care about your experience.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, just letting you know you're not alone in whatever experience you're experiencing.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, would you say like that something that people should repeat over and over again, even if maybe they hear the same thing from that same employee every single time?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I uh I hopefully that once you give them a reassurance, right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Repeating is very important, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because we we do repeat uh to give the sense of of um safety and alliance to say is whatever is happening, and maybe we are disconnected, or we're uh you know, you're feeling like your feelings were hurt, or somehow you got the message that you're not important.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I want to correct the message, right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when people keep using that phrase, is like you were saying you were talking about it, is they negating or they're not they're not understanding what's happening for them.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they don't know how to talk about it, so they're saying it's fine because they don't want to feel disconnected by the loss, but the loss of connection is traumatizing for people.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the suicide prevention month is what the awareness month, we have to recognize that when we disconnect from the people we depend on, it is traumatizing for us.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe in the moment it is relieving to say, it's fine, I don't want to talk about it.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine, just let it go.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: But underneath, when we are not repaired the connection, when we don't get that message corrected, we stay with that disconnection and it gets us stuck in these negative patterns, and that creates more and more isolation and disconnection.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when we have that second time, um, so what you're saying is that like we have that second time where someone says it's fine.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, if we repeat those kind of same phrases to them, they will continue, they will start, even if it's like in little moments, they will start to feel safer.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And as they feel safer, they will feel more comfortable to open up to share what's going on with them.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: And when when you have a team and you use this process and you use this uh language, what they are doing is they might be coming to the team meeting, and if you're using this and you're integrating the EMC process into your daily conversation, recognizing, validating, you know, listening to people, what's happening for them, creating that safe haven and secure base, uh, they start to see what's going on, how other people respond to this.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And over time, they can come and share their experience.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for example, I worked with a with a team of people, and one person says, like, it's fine, I don't want to talk about emotions.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fine, right?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm fine.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then, but he like uh he would come to the team meetings and he would watch what happens, how do people share?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know how did I respond?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: How do other people deal with those?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then one day he did come and he shared his emotions because we long for that connection, even though when people say it's fine, what would what it tells me is they don't have a role model, they don't know what it looks like, what does it feel like to share?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And some people feel very uncomfortable at first because they're so scared that this emotion, if they're going to share that emotion or they're gonna share their experience, somehow you know they're gonna be overwhelmed by it, and then they won't be able to be viewed as strong and this independent person, and that creates a lot of dis difficulty for people.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: So let's flip the switch now and share some ways how people can respond when someone is sharing something that's difficult for them because I think that also a lot of times we say things that we should not say, like, oh, you'll be fine, you know, or or you know, um, just you know, we all have stuff going on, you know, I feel like you just need to let it go, right?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So uh let's switch it now.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: And now we have a situation where an employee or a team member or someone is coming to us to share a struggle that they're experiencing, maybe in their life, maybe in the relationship they have with a team member.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: How should an employee or a manager or supervisor respond to someone sharing their struggles?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: So when someone is sharing, it's really important to slow things down.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: So in our way, as a manager or a supervisor, when the employee comes and shares a difficulty they're having, they probably will come across as complaining.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: They're complaining about a team member or they're blaming the other person, they are criticizing the other person.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So as soon as the manager or the supervisor hears that, that is the first signal that there's a disconnection happening in the relationship.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So for the manager, it's important to slow things down.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: What does it mean to slow things down?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Not to dismiss their experience, to slow things down, that means I hear you, to say, I hear you.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: That must be difficult for you.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I hear you.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that is so hard because you are so important to each other, because you long for that connection, you want to feel safe and comfortable working together, and I get I can see how this impacting you.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we're doing is we are tuning in because leadership is all about attunement.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Are we able to tune into our employees?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Are we able to help them to rebalance and reconnect?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: That is the job of a leader.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So when we are attuning to that experience, we are sitting with that experience, we're giving them space, acceptance, validation, and reassurance, they start to feel heard, valued, and more reassured.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that means they are confident and using the attachment framework where we reassure them, you guys are so important.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I can see how much this matters to you.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I can see how important this is for you.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Your relationship is important.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you bring the attachment significance and you give that person the reassurance saying that you guys are both stuck in a negative cycle, nobody's to blame.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's do a little scenario because I think it's so great for people to see this in action.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm gonna be the complaining employee, and you're going to be the very emotionally connected and responsive manager, okay?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and action.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, oh my gosh, Dr.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Lola.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this person, Cindy.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can't even tell her how annoying she is.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: She just won't stop talking all the time, and I need to get my work done.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I've asked her to stop so many times, and she just won't stop bothering me.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing, Paulina.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I so appreciate you sharing that.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: That must be really difficult.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm hearing you say is that yeah, you really want to have a good working relationship, and it just feels so annoying for you and frustrating for you when Cindy is coming to you and you just can't, you know, like it feels to you that she's bothering you.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I really just want to get my work done.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what I'm here to get my work done.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's just like such a headache.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Ugh.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that is very, very difficult.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing, Palina.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: It really, really, I can hear how much you care about your work.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like Cindy and you are working as a team, and you guys are so important to each other, so it must be something going on in the relationship that she keeps coming back for some sort of, but I can hear how difficult that is for you when your work is disrupted and you constantly have to attend to her, and that's very, very difficult for you.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's fine.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to know.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: I I really would like to uh have the reconnection process uh with you and Cindy, because I think it would really help you to see what's going on underneath the relationship, right?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because um, it sounds like she's coming and reaching out to you, and you also feel uh somehow whatever you are doing is not enough.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: So my god, I could never, I could never talk about my feelings like that to her directly.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that's terrifying.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that makes sense.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I hear you.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing, Palina.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: That it could be very terrifying to even share the emotions.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And why don't we just do it ourselves?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why don't we set up a time where we can just sit down and uh understand what's happening?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I so appreciate you're so courageous and strong to reach out to me because I want to be there for you.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: You are very important to me, and I care about your experience, and I care about Cindy.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are so important to each other, to each other, because you work as a team.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for bringing that up.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't we set up some time?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks, Dr.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Lola.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: You always make me feel so important in your life.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're so strong and courageous.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was so good.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I know it's it's maybe uncomfortable for people to have this type of language, but we we really have to slow it down.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: We we as leaders are the role, the key attachment figures to our team members.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: So we definitely need to learn how to create that safety and connection because underneath all the interactions is that fear of being rejected and abandoned.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, in your experience, like in this little role play, do these two people are really struggling for connection.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Cindy is struggling for connection, that's why she keeps bugging, bugging, bugging, right?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: She's being so annoying and um reaching out, pushing for connection.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you, um, for example, in a role play, uh, you may be avoiding or like criticizing her.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the more you criticize her, the more she's pushing for that connection.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely very, very, I think, helpful when managers see the interaction through this attachment lens.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: So they can understand the patterns that are happening in their teams.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: I also think that I would like to add, sometimes we have people that, you know, they because it's so common to complain and criticize and kind of put the blame on other people when we are feeling triggered.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, um, sometimes they want to say that and then they feel you can have a conversation that way.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: You can hear them and acknowledge like what they're saying, just like Dr.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Lola did in this scenario.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: know, and then they feel kind of more comforted in their experience.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then they can go back to balance and continue to do their work when they may not necessarily be ready to have like a full session, you know?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's important to also recognize is we have to meet the person where they at, where they're at in the experience.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I think repeating the same thing, especially for a company whose culture is around creating securely attached relationships, you're going to find that if that language is used continuously with the employees, like yeah, when you're struggling and you're feeling these signs and we're kind of educating them in that way, then you can come and communicate that with us and we can do a session to really work through some of the deeper issues.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: But if she's just feeling like she's getting maybe scared that she can't get her work done and then she's expressing that to Dr.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Lola that she can't get her work done.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of her fear Dr.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Lola's able to really understand that she may feel understood and be able to go back and get her work done.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about like we want to do those sessions so that we can prevent greater ruptures, like bigger ruptures that occur in the relationship.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're it's the preventative part which really goes alongside suicide prevention.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's that preventative part we don't want it to become worse and worse and worse.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So at the same time we want to meet the person where they're at and then I would say just continuously reinforce and reiterate over and over again the importance of having these conversations when the person feels safe enough to do so then you can come together and have that kind of session.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah I think the most important thing is isolation not to leave people in isolation because that is when they start to really feel down and they get stuck in this I mean I remember working with the CFO and CEO and the CEO would go to his office and lock the door and the CFO was like I don't know what to do and then in our session he would say well what I need you to do is to come and get me and he's like and she's like I don't know like how how did I know that I'm supposed to come and get you if you don't tell me right so when people are isolating themselves and get stuck they don't know how to come back.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I I like what you're saying is that uh continuously um giving them space and reassurance helps them to feel safe but you have to have a lot of balance for yourself in order to do that.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's your work definitely yeah I agree because it's really creating that security within you and your relationships in order to feel be able to have those tools to help you stay in balance especially as a manager and a supervisor and as a leader a CEO you know anyone at the top really needs to have that security within them in order to be responsive to someone who maybe feels insecure in that relationship.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly okay well I know we could talk about this forever but we need to wrap things up for today's podcast.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much of course Dr.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Lola for all of your amazing insight number one thing is we want to create a safe environment for people who are struggling to be able to feel safe to communicate with us when they're struggling and what they're struggling about.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes if they're not safe to tell us what they're struggling about, they can tell us that they are struggling and that's a huge step already to take them off that ledge where they feel like they're alone they can't move forward they're stuck that you know they're alone in that kind of misery that pain that they're experiencing so just memorize those we'll have a quiz for you ready next week and of course you can learn the entire EMC process if you go to emcleaders.com you can sign up for our course because that will change your life and it will change your relationships at work and in your personal life as well we appreciate you thank you so much for watching thank you for listening and thank you for your dedication to being loyal and determined and diligent in learning how to create a thriving work in place environment for you and for those of you around anything else you'd like to add Dr.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Lola well thank you I think this topic is extremely important.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I so appreciate you bringing it Palina and thank you everyone we'll see you soon bye yes we'll see you next week thank you everyone for listening it's a joy to share these podcasts with you be sure to check out our previous podcast and subscribe to join us at our next podcast of the leader in you brought to you by EMC Leaders taking care of the teams you care about.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Until then be well and be focused on your relationships we'll see you soon