Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / The Girl Taken, The Family Left Behind | Melanie Grimmer

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The Girl Taken, The Family Left Behind | Melanie Grimmer · Real Crime with Adam Shand

0:05
Speaker 1: Appoche Production, Welcome to Real Crime with Adam shand I'm
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Speaker 1: your host Adam Shand. The impact of crime goes far
0:19
Speaker 1: beyond the immediate family and loved ones of a victim.
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Speaker 1: The effects are felt through the generations as individuals try
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Speaker 1: to come to terms with tragedy and loss and often
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Speaker 1: a lack of resolution. The abduction of three year old
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Speaker 1: Cheryl Grimmer from ferry Meadow Beach in January nineteen seventy
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Speaker 1: is one such crime. Three year old Cheryl Grimmer disappeared
0:42
Speaker 1: from a Woollongong beach more than five decades ago on
0:45
Speaker 1: a hot summer's day. Cheryl's seven year old brother, Ricky
0:49
Speaker 1: had been waiting for her to come out of the
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Speaker 1: changing shed, and when she didn't, he went back to
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Speaker 1: his mother on the beach to tell her with his
0:56
Speaker 1: two other brothers, that was time enough for Cheryl to
1:00
Speaker 1: be abducted, and she was never seen again.
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Speaker 2: Got my daughter.
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Speaker 3: I would love her about unharmed, as early and as
1:07
Speaker 3: quick as possible.
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Speaker 1: A year later, a seventeen year old boy confessed to
1:13
Speaker 1: her abduction and murder, but police did not take him seriously.
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Speaker 1: In twenty seventeen, this individual, who we must call Mercury,
1:21
Speaker 1: for legal reasons, was charged with her murder based on
1:25
Speaker 1: that confession, only for the case to be discontinued because
1:29
Speaker 1: an adult had not been present when he made his
1:32
Speaker 1: chilling confession.
1:34
Speaker 4: The confession was recorded when the suspect was a minor,
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Speaker 4: leading the Supreme Court to rule it inadmissible.
1:42
Speaker 1: Her brother, Ricky, has carried the guilt for Cheryl's loss
1:45
Speaker 1: for his whole life, and it's affected everyone in his family,
1:49
Speaker 1: not least his own daughter, Melanie Grimmer. Ricky suggested, I
1:54
Speaker 1: speak to Melanie about this intergenerational trauma, and that's my
1:58
Speaker 1: pleasure to welcome Melanie to real crime.
2:02
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you for having me absolute pleasure.
2:06
Speaker 1: Listen, your father, Ricky Nash, decided it was a good
2:09
Speaker 1: idea for you to talk about your experience, and I
2:13
Speaker 1: guess the experience of families as you go down the
2:16
Speaker 1: generations of this crime trauma.
2:20
Speaker 3: What's been your experience?
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Speaker 2: Obviously, my childhood hasn't been easy.
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Speaker 4: I haven't really had a father figure in the sense
2:28
Speaker 4: in my dad having my dad as my father figure.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it hasn't always been good.
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Speaker 1: Because you've always grown up with the shadow of your auntie.
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Speaker 1: Cheryl Grimmer in the back. Yes, she disappeared on January twelve,
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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. You never knew her, but you see the
2:47
Speaker 1: impact on your father. What's that been over the years.
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Speaker 2: I always felt like I shouldn't have been here.
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Speaker 4: I always felt that it was obviously Cheryl, you know,
2:57
Speaker 4: should have been here.
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Speaker 2: I felt kind of compared.
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Speaker 4: You know.
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Speaker 2: I was the blonde hair, blue.
3:02
Speaker 4: Eye kind of girl, which was exactly what she er
3:05
Speaker 4: all was. I obviously came at a time where my
3:08
Speaker 4: dad was young. My dad was a young father and
3:11
Speaker 4: he had just learnt that Vince wasn't his biological dad.
3:15
Speaker 4: I only came a few years after that, so he
3:17
Speaker 4: was going through this whole transition himself. I think I
3:22
Speaker 4: felt the effects of that. Whether my dad fully understands that,
3:25
Speaker 4: I no, I don't think so. But yeah, it was
3:29
Speaker 4: very hard. My relationship with my dad was at times toxic,
3:34
Speaker 4: I would say, and other times it was good.
3:37
Speaker 2: I won't completely.
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Speaker 4: Fault him with everything. I always understood how he was
3:42
Speaker 4: and why he was. But I would never ask my
3:45
Speaker 4: dad like it was a topic that you just wouldn't
3:47
Speaker 4: talk about, nor would he open up about it.
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Speaker 2: It was something that I would always talk.
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Speaker 4: To my mum about it, or my grandma my name
3:55
Speaker 4: because it was just you.
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Speaker 2: You couldn't talk to my dad.
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Speaker 1: So because your grandmother Carol was only twenty six when
4:04
Speaker 1: this happened, she must have been carrying so much guilt
4:07
Speaker 1: as well.
4:08
Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely, absolutely, or she always believed Cheryl was alive.
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Speaker 2: I guess when you're a mum, you kind of have
4:15
Speaker 2: the hope that she's always alive. You don't want to
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Speaker 2: see the worst.
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Speaker 4: So to the day that she died, she always felt that,
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Speaker 4: and she would never give up on her.
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Speaker 2: You know, even if she had.
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Speaker 4: Found out about Mercury's confession, she would still be trying
4:29
Speaker 4: to prove that she's alive. Like, I don't know, you
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Speaker 4: don't want to hear the worst anyway, you don't want
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Speaker 4: to know the worst.
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Speaker 2: I guess that you know that's your child.
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Speaker 3: When did your grandmother pass away? How old were you then?
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Speaker 2: Oh? I was.
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Speaker 4: I was actually on my way to New Zealand when
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Speaker 4: I found out that she was passing away.
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Speaker 1: Did she ever try to explain to you what your
4:50
Speaker 1: father was going through?
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Speaker 3: Did you seek solace from her?
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Speaker 2: I did.
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Speaker 4: There was a few things that I've spoken to her
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Speaker 4: about that I didn't agree with that had happened to
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Speaker 4: my dad over the course of the years. I wasn't
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Speaker 4: really talking to my nn that life last part when
5:05
Speaker 4: she was going in a past, because I had a
5:07
Speaker 4: conversation with her and her response to me was not
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Speaker 4: a response that I wanted to hear. So that's kind
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Speaker 4: of hard on me because I always had a very
5:15
Speaker 4: very good relationship with my name. But that last phone
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Speaker 4: conversation was not okay for me.
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Speaker 1: I don't want to pride, But was it around the
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Speaker 1: share Ol case or it was.
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Speaker 4: Around more about my father what had happened to my
5:31
Speaker 4: father over the course of the years that I had
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Speaker 4: confronted her with and her response to me was not
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Speaker 4: an okay response from my perspective.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and what points were you raising about what happened
5:45
Speaker 1: to your father? Because we've obviously heard a lot about
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Speaker 1: your father's journey through the BBC podcast Fairy Meadow, but
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Speaker 1: the rest of the family is sort of not in the.
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Speaker 3: Frame as it were.
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Speaker 1: How did you feel when you listened to that podcast
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Speaker 1: if you did and contrasted it to what your lived
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Speaker 1: experience was.
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Speaker 4: Well, I don't think any podcast could fully dive into what.
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Speaker 2: We've experienced throughout the years.
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Speaker 4: I mean I would have to sit here for the
6:13
Speaker 4: years explaining what we've gone through.
6:17
Speaker 2: Our family was never the same.
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Speaker 4: I never had a normal upbringing, which you know, Mercury
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Speaker 4: obviously took Cheryl that day, but he robbed us all
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Speaker 4: of our life and including my children. Like the effects
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Speaker 4: of what happened even without I try not to it
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Speaker 4: kind of goes to my children as well, and I
6:39
Speaker 4: can't help that.
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Speaker 2: I try to minimalize it.
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Speaker 4: I try to not let it affect them, but you know,
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Speaker 4: things like Mercury being released and my children can hear
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Speaker 4: that on the news and see that.
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Speaker 2: My children I have to hug of a night time
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Speaker 2: to say, well, why did they let him go?
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Speaker 4: Mum, He's killed her, He's done this to her.
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Speaker 2: Why is he walking the streets.
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Speaker 4: I'm the one that has to comfort them and basically
7:02
Speaker 4: say I'm sorry, but you know, the systems failed you,
7:07
Speaker 4: not just failed us to help the country like other
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Speaker 4: children and the safety and I have to deal with
7:13
Speaker 4: holding them tight over nighttime and reassuring them that they're
7:17
Speaker 4: okay and they're safe. That's what nobody sees. Nobody sees
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Speaker 4: those talks or me walking the street and scanning the
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Speaker 4: street to making sure that you know my child's safe,
7:29
Speaker 4: or not even feeling comfortable with my children being alone
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Speaker 4: with my own family. It's yeah, they don't see those effects.
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Speaker 1: And you grew up with the same sort of feeling,
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Speaker 1: although you didn't know about mercury then. Yeah, who was
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Speaker 1: comfanying you? What was your source of solace?
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Speaker 4: It was my mom, and it was my mum's parents
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Speaker 4: and my auntie. It was my mom's side of the family,
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Speaker 4: my grandparents on my mom's side, they were like my
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Speaker 4: mom and dad. I lived with them throughout my life.
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Speaker 4: So I was very fortunate that I had that very
8:03
Speaker 4: loving stay who in somewhat relationship and family were very
8:09
Speaker 4: close and we're still very very close. Yeah, I was
8:13
Speaker 4: lucky because I could have gone completely in a different
8:16
Speaker 4: way because obviously things affected my mom too. My mom
8:19
Speaker 4: was very young when she had me, and when she
8:23
Speaker 4: got married to.
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Speaker 2: My dad divorced not long after.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, what were those years?
8:30
Speaker 1: Like, I know your dad has had trouble in his relationships.
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Speaker 1: It always carries that guilt. It's affected his personality. How
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Speaker 1: did that play out in his relationships?
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Speaker 2: He wasn't a great person.
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Speaker 4: He definitely wasn't a great father to me, as much
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Speaker 4: as he liked to think he was. I found him
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Speaker 4: to be a better father to my two brothers and
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Speaker 4: my sister. I was actually quite surprised when that relationship
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Speaker 4: had ended.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but he just he liked.
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Speaker 4: To drink, and unfortunately he wasn't a nice person when
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Speaker 4: you drink. And that's just reality, like that was his
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Speaker 4: coping mechanism, I guess.
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Speaker 1: And you found yourself walking on eggshells around him. You
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Speaker 1: couldn't talk about the thing that looms so large in
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Speaker 1: your family.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, you couldn't.
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Speaker 4: I knew a lot of the things because my dad,
9:18
Speaker 4: obviously being married to my mom, My dad actually has
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Speaker 4: a lot of nightmares and likes to talk in his sleep.
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Speaker 4: A lot of the information my mom would get it
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Speaker 4: out of him.
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Speaker 2: When he would have those nightmares.
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Speaker 4: So it was my mom that originally spoke to me
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Speaker 4: and told me all the things.
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Speaker 2: And my father doesn't completely know everything because.
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Speaker 4: We haven't sat down and had that conversation about exactly
9:38
Speaker 4: what I know. But that's how I found out. And
9:41
Speaker 4: then over the course of time, obviously I would ask
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Speaker 4: my name, and my name would give me her answers
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Speaker 4: as well. So that's how I got all the information.
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Speaker 4: And then obviously when I started talking to my dad
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Speaker 4: after Mercury's confession, I would give him bits and pieces.
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Speaker 4: I don't think my dad's ready to ever sit down
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Speaker 4: and speak to me completely about it all, or for
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Speaker 4: us to have that one on one kind of conversation.
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Speaker 1: I guess it's that he suggested that you do it
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Speaker 1: through me, and I feel honored privilege to do this,
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Speaker 1: because I think there is time for some healing and
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Speaker 1: what you've been through needs to be discussed. But I
10:16
Speaker 1: guess he went for those decades with no one so whatsoever,
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Speaker 1: a total mystery, various suspects that didn't pan out, and
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Speaker 1: then Frank Sanvitali and Damien Lerne did the investigation and
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Speaker 1: they found Mercury's confession. Yeah, that's twenty seventeen. Do you
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Speaker 1: remember those circumstances.
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Speaker 4: I actually wasn't talking to my dad at that stage, Arma,
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Speaker 4: I hadn't talked to him for a few years prior
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Speaker 4: to that.
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Speaker 2: The day that I started talking.
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Speaker 4: To my dad was the day of the conference at
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Speaker 4: the Perumado Beach. They had done a Prince's conference with
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Speaker 4: Brad Ainsworth. I stood to the side. I didn't stand
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Speaker 4: with the family. I actually wasn't going to.
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Speaker 2: Go that day.
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Speaker 4: He had written me a message to say, this is
10:58
Speaker 4: what was happening. My Mum was the one that kind
11:01
Speaker 4: of convinced me to go that day. So I still
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Speaker 4: to the side, and then I ended up just going
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Speaker 4: down to the beach and I.
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Speaker 2: Just sat there.
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Speaker 4: You know, I cried because that was the first time
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Speaker 4: in my life that I've ever seen my dad ever emotional,
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Speaker 4: ever show his emotions for anything. I saw a very
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Speaker 4: broken man that he couldn't put that front on at
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Speaker 4: that moment. I've always felt that he's had that mask on,
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Speaker 4: and that day he didn't have it on.
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Speaker 2: So that was kind of a bit of a turning
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Speaker 2: point for him.
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Speaker 4: And I where I kind of allowed him back into life,
11:38
Speaker 4: because yeah, he was just a.
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Speaker 2: Different person at that stage anyway.
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Speaker 4: Obviously got to speak to him, and just I was
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Speaker 4: able to talk to him. He had quit the drinking
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Speaker 4: at that stage, so he was completely different person to
11:52
Speaker 4: what I had grown up with anyway, and he.
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Speaker 1: Must have been so full of hope at that time
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Speaker 1: when he knew that Mercury was still alive, that there
12:04
Speaker 1: was a detailed confession, which was corroborated by some excellent
12:08
Speaker 1: work by Damien and Frank. What promise did that hold
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Speaker 1: out for you as you struggle with the decades long issue.
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Speaker 4: It was hard to obviously hear what had happened and
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Speaker 4: what the police believed to be true.
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Speaker 2: It's hard to also go to court.
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Speaker 4: Basically you're being told, this is the guy you know.
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Speaker 4: We've crossed our teas, we've dotted our eyes, we've done
12:31
Speaker 4: absolutely everything. There is no doubt that this isn't the person.
12:36
Speaker 4: You've got to hear things that you don't want to hear,
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Speaker 4: all these things, and we're not interested. We just want
12:41
Speaker 4: to know what had happened to Eryl. We just want
12:43
Speaker 4: to kind of get some form of justice. I don't
12:46
Speaker 4: think there of the will be justice, but that's all
12:50
Speaker 4: we want. And then you go with this expectation that
12:54
Speaker 4: you're finally going to not have closure, but just begin
12:57
Speaker 4: to start a healing process. I guess in some ways,
13:01
Speaker 4: and then it's taken from you again. So a part
13:04
Speaker 4: of you is like, I wish we didn't know, I guess,
13:08
Speaker 4: because we still have the hope that you know, she's alive,
13:10
Speaker 4: but now that we know, and then he's been released
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Speaker 4: after two years of incarceration. It's yeah, that's a bit
13:18
Speaker 4: bit hard because.
13:20
Speaker 1: I'm sure that you are probably looking at your own
13:23
Speaker 1: relationship with your dad through this prism that here's this resolution,
13:27
Speaker 1: we can sweep away the past and have a new
13:30
Speaker 1: beginning to our relationship. You had your own kids, You've
13:33
Speaker 1: got your own kids, and so something was very promising
13:38
Speaker 1: at that moment.
13:39
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's my relationship with my dad will never
13:44
Speaker 4: be a normal relationship with anybody like any other person
13:47
Speaker 4: has with their father. I will always be cautious, I
13:50
Speaker 4: will always stand on eggshells.
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Speaker 2: I'll always shelter my heart.
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Speaker 4: I guess, like wrap my heart and my children and
13:55
Speaker 4: protect them. But I thought it was the beginning of
14:00
Speaker 4: us healing together.
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Speaker 2: I guess, in some ways the best that we could.
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Speaker 4: But it's yeah, I don't know if we're ever going
14:07
Speaker 4: to be healed.
14:08
Speaker 2: I guess in some ways.
14:12
Speaker 1: But you've certainly been incredibly loyal. I met you after
14:16
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, when Mercury was released and the confession was
14:21
Speaker 1: deemed to be not admissible because there wasn't an adult
14:24
Speaker 1: present at the time, which must have been so maddening.
14:27
Speaker 3: To you to have.
14:28
Speaker 1: It pulled away and your whole life being a family
14:32
Speaker 1: will the tru me is suffered all on the basis
14:34
Speaker 1: of one little technical loophole.
14:37
Speaker 4: Yes, especially when you're going to court, Like I was
14:41
Speaker 4: able to go enter the court, Dad wasn't so I
14:43
Speaker 4: saw mercury on the screen when we're at Allongong being
14:47
Speaker 4: in that courtroom hearing the judge basically say the evidence
14:50
Speaker 4: that's based in front of us, bail is denied and
14:54
Speaker 4: they only had like twenty percent of the information in
14:57
Speaker 4: front of him. Now you've gone to court, you know,
15:00
Speaker 4: several times after that once again bail DENI bail tonight.
15:03
Speaker 4: Then when it goes to Sydney court, guess what he's
15:06
Speaker 4: getting let off? And it's like what do you mean?
15:09
Speaker 4: Like you've bought in this retrospective law. But then it's
15:13
Speaker 4: never been used on any other case in the history
15:16
Speaker 4: of Australia. That is what's frustrating to me. How is
15:20
Speaker 4: it that that's even possible, Like how is it that
15:22
Speaker 4: no other cases even come in and go, well, hang
15:25
Speaker 4: on a second, you've used it in that case, use
15:28
Speaker 4: it in this one?
15:29
Speaker 2: Like nope, it's pushed to the side.
15:31
Speaker 4: Now they've used that retrospective law and let's just sweep
15:34
Speaker 4: it underneath the rug where I'm like, no, this is crazy,
15:37
Speaker 4: Like this to me is ludicrous, Like I don't understand
15:42
Speaker 4: the thinking. I don't understand the law. I don't understand
15:46
Speaker 4: any of it. And why aren't people, you know, debating
15:50
Speaker 4: this and bringing it up into other cases, like why
15:53
Speaker 4: is it just Sheryl? That's what's frustrating and heartbreaking at
15:57
Speaker 4: the same time.
15:59
Speaker 1: And then, obviously, in the context of your relationship with
16:02
Speaker 1: your dad, you think what's next the two disappointment. Are
16:06
Speaker 1: we going back into the darkness? Is this going to
16:08
Speaker 1: be the start of us fighting together on this? So
16:11
Speaker 1: what happened after that?
16:13
Speaker 2: My dad's very he's proactive.
16:15
Speaker 4: He's like, whatever he can do to fight for Cheryl,
16:18
Speaker 4: he would do like that's that's the promise that he
16:20
Speaker 4: made to his mum, that's the promise that he's made
16:21
Speaker 4: to himself. It's the promise that he's made to Cheryl.
16:24
Speaker 4: She's what makes him just run and tick and go.
16:29
Speaker 4: Sometimes you can forget us in the process of that.
16:33
Speaker 4: I'm okay with that because it's for Cheryl. It's just
16:36
Speaker 4: how my dad works. Once he's focused on something. He's
16:40
Speaker 4: just that tunnel vision. Everything else is kind of put
16:43
Speaker 4: to the side. If it was anything else, I wouldn't
16:45
Speaker 4: be okay with it. But for Cheryl.
16:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you are prepared to sacrifice that time that
16:51
Speaker 1: he might be spending with you and your children.
16:53
Speaker 4: For Cheryl, absolutely absolutely, if it means that, you know,
16:58
Speaker 4: down the line we might get some kind of resolution
17:03
Speaker 4: and you know, Mercury does go back to jail or
17:06
Speaker 4: maybe then we can heal or try to heal. I'm
17:09
Speaker 4: not thinking of myself. I'm not thinking of my kids.
17:11
Speaker 4: I'm thinking of Cheryl. I think she deserves to be
17:14
Speaker 4: the focus, I guess in some ways, and she deserves
17:18
Speaker 4: to be set free.
17:19
Speaker 2: I guess that to me is what this is about.
17:24
Speaker 1: I'm going to be play devil's advocate here. I'm going
17:25
Speaker 1: to say, well, what do you deserve?
17:29
Speaker 2: I deserved a father, My kids deserve her grandfather.
17:35
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I won't ever get that.
17:39
Speaker 2: It's just how it is. He tries.
17:42
Speaker 3: But you haven't had that conversation. You haven't. I'm surprised
17:45
Speaker 3: to hear this because I know you're a strong person.
17:47
Speaker 3: He's a strong person.
17:49
Speaker 1: In fact, I can see echoes of him and you,
17:52
Speaker 1: and I wonder whether it's not time to have that conversation,
17:55
Speaker 1: because when I look at the options that are in
17:58
Speaker 1: front of your family now, Damien Len and Frank Sanvitali,
18:02
Speaker 1: they did an amazing job, and they were looking for
18:04
Speaker 1: things like what's somebody else in the boys name at
18:08
Speaker 1: that time who possibly did witness, but tried to find
18:11
Speaker 1: out whether they could find boys who were there. They've looked.
18:14
Speaker 1: This new witness came up who claimed to have said
18:16
Speaker 1: they've done everything. So if there is no change and
18:20
Speaker 1: this is the setting, what happens with you and your dad.
18:25
Speaker 2: I honestly don't know.
18:27
Speaker 4: I don't I don't know if you would ever sit
18:30
Speaker 4: down and have that conversation, a proper conversation. We get
18:34
Speaker 4: drips and drafts, like you know, every time he comes
18:37
Speaker 4: here and things like that.
18:38
Speaker 2: I get a little bit more.
18:39
Speaker 4: Out of him, But I don't know if he can
18:42
Speaker 4: ever sit down and have a let's go one on
18:44
Speaker 4: one kind. I don't think he would be ready for that,
18:47
Speaker 4: to be honest, I don't think he can face that.
18:52
Speaker 3: Well.
18:52
Speaker 1: Again, maybe that's why he suggested this conversation and maybe
18:55
Speaker 1: he won't be thanking me later on.
18:57
Speaker 4: But No, he probably won't be thanking me either, to
19:02
Speaker 4: be honest, but sometimes you need to hear it.
19:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, in that vein. I mean, he will listen to
19:09
Speaker 1: this and tell me. What would you want to say
19:11
Speaker 1: to him if you were sitting in front of him,
19:13
Speaker 1: you can say it through me.
19:15
Speaker 4: Just to prioritize what's in the land of living too.
19:20
Speaker 4: I think sometimes he forgets we're still here and as
19:24
Speaker 4: much as Cheryl is a big focus, and I totally
19:27
Speaker 4: understand him doing that and doing everything he possibly can
19:31
Speaker 4: because he feels that he needs to for himself and
19:33
Speaker 4: for Cheryl. Don't forget about us. That's what I want
19:38
Speaker 4: to say to him, for him to understand. He's got
19:41
Speaker 4: four beautiful grandchildren, He's got a daughter that despite everything,
19:46
Speaker 4: is still here, still fighting for him, still doing what.
19:50
Speaker 2: I can for him. I think sometimes he forgets.
19:53
Speaker 1: That, and he's probably forgetting or not realizing what he's missing.
19:58
Speaker 1: What are the things that are important to you in
20:01
Speaker 1: your life that you want him to know about how
20:03
Speaker 1: you're living, what's happening with your kids, Well, just a simple.
20:08
Speaker 4: Like this year, he'd forgot about all of our birthdays.
20:12
Speaker 4: It's just a simple happy birthday, and he might see
20:16
Speaker 4: it as a simple mistake. I see it as more
20:19
Speaker 4: because I'm the one that has to explain to my
20:21
Speaker 4: children my granddad didn't message or call or send a
20:25
Speaker 4: birthday card.
20:26
Speaker 2: It's not about gifts, it's not about any of that stuff.
20:29
Speaker 2: I can't stand that kind of stuff.
20:32
Speaker 4: It's just making a gesture and acknowledging that it's something
20:36
Speaker 4: special it's their birthday or something like that. It's just, yeah,
20:39
Speaker 4: I think he just needs to stop making excuses for
20:43
Speaker 4: missing it.
20:44
Speaker 1: Because if I have a criticism of the Very Meadow podcast,
20:48
Speaker 1: I think it's a tremendous production and it really shone
20:50
Speaker 1: a light into what it was like for your father.
20:53
Speaker 3: I felt like it's somewhat indulged some of this.
20:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll.
20:58
Speaker 4: Give an example, because my dad forgot our birthdays this
21:01
Speaker 4: year on purpose. I did not wish him a happy
21:04
Speaker 4: Father's Day, and he worked that out pretty quickly, and
21:07
Speaker 4: he said it to me when he came here. Oh,
21:09
Speaker 4: you know, you didn't wish me to have a Father's Day. Yes,
21:11
Speaker 4: I didn't, And he goes that was to get back at.
21:13
Speaker 2: Me, Yes it was.
21:15
Speaker 4: Now do you understand he's like fairpoint, fair point, Like
21:18
Speaker 4: you know, So that's the kind of person I am
21:20
Speaker 4: when I'm.
21:20
Speaker 2: With my dad, Like I don't hold back.
21:23
Speaker 4: With him, like if he's if I don't like something,
21:26
Speaker 4: I'll voice my opinion and I'll be blunt about it.
21:29
Speaker 2: I won't sugarcoat things for him.
21:32
Speaker 3: I'm me good, good for you.
21:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you've got to keep doing that. And I
21:39
Speaker 1: think you know, I mean, he's got a difficult relationship
21:42
Speaker 1: with his other children as well now, so he's a
21:43
Speaker 1: little bit isolated generally, And I wonder what happens now
21:46
Speaker 1: in the future, because I'm not even sure that a
21:50
Speaker 1: resolution would make much difference now to him.
21:53
Speaker 3: It's so ingrained this now.
21:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:56
Speaker 4: Absolutely, Yeah, he's just I'm not speaking to those kids.
22:01
Speaker 2: He's tried, Don't get me wrong.
22:03
Speaker 4: He has tried to talk, and he has gone to
22:05
Speaker 4: one of my brothers. He plays football. He goes to
22:08
Speaker 4: those games when he can. Obviously he was going a
22:10
Speaker 4: lot more, but him being in the Philippines, he obviously
22:13
Speaker 4: can't go.
22:14
Speaker 2: He does try. I'm kind of caught in the middle.
22:16
Speaker 4: I'm piggy in the middle because I talked to one
22:18
Speaker 4: of my brothers and he knows that he's he doesn't
22:21
Speaker 4: stop my relationship with my dad, and he doesn't ask
22:24
Speaker 4: questions or I'm kind of I'm stuck in between them
22:29
Speaker 4: trying to explain that, yes, he's done this, you know,
22:31
Speaker 4: but he's been good at this, or vice versa, and yeah,
22:35
Speaker 4: I don't think they realize how awkward it is for me.
22:39
Speaker 4: And I try not to get any information because then
22:41
Speaker 4: if I don't want anything to come back on me.
22:43
Speaker 2: Yeah it's hard, Yeah, really tough.
22:47
Speaker 1: And he's now basically living in the Philippines, which puts
22:50
Speaker 1: distance between even more. Yes, yeah, in a new relationship,
22:54
Speaker 1: you know. And I guess you're still thinking, well, what
22:56
Speaker 1: about us?
22:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely absolutely, it's what about us?
23:01
Speaker 2: But it's what about my kids? You know?
23:03
Speaker 4: My kids seek in this new relationship and why he's
23:07
Speaker 4: been attentive grandfather.
23:09
Speaker 2: He's in this new relationship and he's not as attentive anymore.
23:12
Speaker 2: They see this. I don't think he realizes this. I
23:15
Speaker 2: wish he was a bit more aware.
23:18
Speaker 3: I think he's running from himself.
23:20
Speaker 1: And I think part of the issue in life is
23:22
Speaker 1: we try to change and transform ourselves these things that.
23:25
Speaker 3: We don't like or experiences in the.
23:27
Speaker 1: Past, and really most of these things are preordained and
23:31
Speaker 1: we have to accept ourselves. And I think that's he
23:34
Speaker 1: can't go back to that moment on January the twelfth,
23:38
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. He was a seven year old boy. For
23:41
Speaker 1: God's sakes, he didn't do it deliberately. It's just a
23:46
Speaker 1: terrible tragedy. And I wonder have you ever tried to
23:50
Speaker 1: say to him, for fuck sake, dad, forgive yourself.
23:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:54
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely, he did what any other seven year old
23:58
Speaker 4: would have done, Like, he didn't do anything wrong. As
24:02
Speaker 4: much as he blames himself, he didn't do anything wrong.
24:05
Speaker 4: My children would have been the same, Like, if you know,
24:07
Speaker 4: one of my kids won't come in, they would have
24:09
Speaker 4: come down to me and said, hey, mum, you know
24:12
Speaker 4: he needs to move past it and realize that yes, okay,
24:18
Speaker 4: like it's a mistake, but it's not. At the time,
24:21
Speaker 4: he was doing the right thing. But he needs to
24:24
Speaker 4: stop being the victim and he needs to wake up
24:28
Speaker 4: sometimes and just move on. Take ownership and whatever. But
24:32
Speaker 4: not even take ownership. He didn't even do anything wrong
24:35
Speaker 4: that day. He just needs to not be as hard
24:37
Speaker 4: on himself.
24:38
Speaker 1: And the fact that you know, you having this conversation
24:42
Speaker 1: saying these things, not because you want to get at
24:44
Speaker 1: any more, insult him, criticize him.
24:46
Speaker 3: It is out of love.
24:47
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I love my dad.
24:49
Speaker 4: I wouldn't be here if I didn't love my dad.
24:51
Speaker 4: I'm still trying to fight for my dad. I don't
24:54
Speaker 4: think he realizes that, but I'm still trying to.
24:57
Speaker 2: Fight for my dad.
24:58
Speaker 4: I've understood him, understood how he is, why he is,
25:02
Speaker 4: and I guess that's.
25:03
Speaker 2: Why I am here fighting for my dad.
25:07
Speaker 4: But I feel like every time his life is happy,
25:10
Speaker 4: he self sabotages himself, Like he feels like he can
25:14
Speaker 4: never be happy. And I think that's also one of
25:17
Speaker 4: the reasons why his relationships end as well, especially the
25:20
Speaker 4: last relationship.
25:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a shame, you know, And I wonder
25:25
Speaker 1: whether anything would change that. And you've got this parliamentary
25:29
Speaker 1: inquiry coming up, Cheryl's disappearance is going to be back
25:33
Speaker 1: in the spotlight once more. Jeremy Buckingham's doing a fantastic job.
25:37
Speaker 1: But do you have to guard in your own heart
25:40
Speaker 1: against that sort of instinct for hope that might turn
25:42
Speaker 1: out to be false?
25:44
Speaker 4: Absolutely constantly going like I see things a little bit
25:47
Speaker 4: differently to my dad.
25:48
Speaker 2: Why my dad wants to putting back behind bars.
25:51
Speaker 4: I look at it from a different perspective that he
25:54
Speaker 4: was incarcerated for two years. Yes, it's not enough, it
25:58
Speaker 4: never will be enough, but we've got the answers.
26:01
Speaker 2: That we never knew. So to me, it's some thing
26:05
Speaker 2: that I see a little bit differently.
26:08
Speaker 5: Would I like him to go back to Absolutely, he
26:11
Speaker 5: shouldn't be on the streets. But I've also got to
26:13
Speaker 5: look at it in another way that we at least
26:16
Speaker 5: know what now what happened to Shell And I say
26:19
Speaker 5: it to Frank Savatily all the time, if it wasn't
26:22
Speaker 5: for him and Damien, it's like they gave her her wings.
26:26
Speaker 2: This is my way of thinking.
26:28
Speaker 4: She was stuck up there all alone, nobody knew exactly
26:32
Speaker 4: what happened to her, and with them, she's kind of
26:35
Speaker 4: finally set free in that regard. So I'm forever grateful
26:41
Speaker 4: to them for that. But yeah, I don't think Dad,
26:44
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter. I don't think even if he got
26:46
Speaker 4: life in prison, I don't think that will ever be
26:48
Speaker 4: enough with my dad.
26:48
Speaker 2: I think my dad will still still fight for more.
26:52
Speaker 3: Have you had this conversation with your dad, have you
26:54
Speaker 3: expressed that feeling.
26:57
Speaker 2: I think he knows that I don't think it will
26:59
Speaker 2: ever be enough. I think he's just got to constantly fight.
27:02
Speaker 2: What's he going to do after this?
27:05
Speaker 4: If this was to end and everything he was to
27:07
Speaker 4: be incarcerated, what's he going to do?
27:10
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, because Cheryl's such a big part.
27:15
Speaker 3: Yes, trauma is so ingrained. It's now gone over three generations.
27:20
Speaker 1: Really if you include your children as well in this,
27:22
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure that anything will change that. The
27:25
Speaker 1: one hope that I hold out is that now that
27:29
Speaker 1: Mercury has been named in the Parliament, police around the
27:33
Speaker 1: nation also know about this guy. And my feeling is
27:36
Speaker 1: that if he did this once, what else has he done?
27:39
Speaker 2: Absolutely I hope.
27:41
Speaker 1: That police he lives in Victoria, we can say that
27:45
Speaker 1: we'll be looking at him for other not dissimilar crimes.
27:49
Speaker 3: And that holds out some hope, I guess.
27:52
Speaker 4: I hope Victorian police are doing their job because I
27:56
Speaker 4: do not feel New South Wales police have done their job.
27:59
Speaker 4: The whole process has just been an absolute circus and
28:04
Speaker 4: we're still fight.
28:05
Speaker 2: We shouldn't have to fight, you know, to be treated.
28:09
Speaker 4: I remember being up there were Sydney searchdogs being treated
28:13
Speaker 4: like where garbage, Like where the perpetrator.
28:16
Speaker 2: That's not okay.
28:19
Speaker 6: Where are the victim's family here like we're getting treated
28:24
Speaker 6: there's no communication whatsoever.
28:27
Speaker 2: They disregard anything that we say.
28:29
Speaker 4: But then to be just treated like like we're rubbish.
28:35
Speaker 1: It's extremely odd because you're referring to the search that
28:38
Speaker 1: took place this year and Sidney search dogs were Chris Darcy,
28:42
Speaker 1: who's a legend to so many families in this situation,
28:46
Speaker 1: and a bone was found. Police came down, declared a
28:49
Speaker 1: crime scene, but there was no discussion with your family.
28:55
Speaker 2: They thought it was a joke. Honestly, the way that
28:58
Speaker 2: they were standing.
28:59
Speaker 4: There one police officer that was actually on duty then
29:01
Speaker 4: that was talking to us.
29:02
Speaker 2: When Chris Daci actually called to come in, he was
29:06
Speaker 2: beautiful about it.
29:07
Speaker 4: He said, yep, you know, they'll they'll do all the
29:10
Speaker 4: soil samples, all that stuff.
29:11
Speaker 2: Forensics will be here.
29:13
Speaker 4: The other ones kind of stood around like, oh yeah,
29:15
Speaker 4: whatever kind of thing, but one was in particular, he
29:18
Speaker 4: was awesome. Come the next day though.
29:20
Speaker 2: They're not even there on time, they're hours late. They
29:23
Speaker 2: come in.
29:24
Speaker 4: Where if they searched for these bones for starters, because
29:27
Speaker 4: they didn't bring anything in to.
29:28
Speaker 2: Search for the bones, they didn't walk out with anything.
29:32
Speaker 4: They ignored the family, didn't acknowledge the family, didn't even
29:34
Speaker 4: say hello, or hey, this is what's gone on, or yes,
29:37
Speaker 4: we've walked to the nothing, they've walked in.
29:40
Speaker 2: It was all for show, and they've walked back out
29:42
Speaker 2: for show.
29:43
Speaker 6: Meanwhile, my dad's left there this is potentially somewhere that
29:47
Speaker 6: his sister's remains could possibly be, and you have not
29:52
Speaker 6: acknowledged him or given him some kind of counseling or
29:56
Speaker 6: something like.
29:57
Speaker 2: It was all for the TV show. It was all
29:59
Speaker 2: for the news. It was that's all it was. And
30:02
Speaker 2: then to hear on the radio, Oh, yeah there were
30:05
Speaker 2: barons found, but they were animal bones. Are you serious?
30:08
Speaker 2: Like you didn't even talk to the family.
30:10
Speaker 4: I had to hear it on the radio and then
30:12
Speaker 4: call my dad and say, hey, this is what's been said.
30:15
Speaker 2: And then a piece of paper gets.
30:17
Speaker 4: Released to him like it's a joke. It's honestly a joke.
30:22
Speaker 1: By contrast, you had such amazing service from Frank san
30:25
Speaker 1: Vitali and Damian Luhn. You think, I mean, I think
30:27
Speaker 1: that's all they were going beyond the call of duty.
30:29
Speaker 1: But this is way below the minimum standards of not
30:33
Speaker 1: just police work, but civility, how people should treat each other.
30:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, can imagine what they are feeling here. They are
30:42
Speaker 4: they've dedicated their lives to policing and.
30:46
Speaker 6: You're basically throwing in their face what they've worked their
30:50
Speaker 6: entire lives for.
30:51
Speaker 3: Life.
30:52
Speaker 4: To me is just it's hard wrenching to watch Frank
30:57
Speaker 4: and his emotions because he can see that he's done.
31:00
Speaker 2: The right thing.
31:01
Speaker 4: He's done, you know, everything by the books above and beyond,
31:05
Speaker 4: and then they've just come in and it's like, nah.
31:09
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, I'll never forget doing an interview
31:12
Speaker 1: with Frank and Damien a few years ago, and when
31:15
Speaker 1: we started talking about how Frank felt about his failure
31:19
Speaker 1: to put Mercury away, he was inconsolable.
31:23
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, big man.
31:24
Speaker 1: He just the sobs came and it was it was
31:27
Speaker 1: hard to listen to it, but it just showed me
31:29
Speaker 1: how much he cared and how much trauma he'd taken
31:33
Speaker 1: on board as well.
31:35
Speaker 7: Well.
31:36
Speaker 4: Imagine knowing that you have your your man that has
31:39
Speaker 4: confessed to this in full detail.
31:42
Speaker 2: You've got the person you know, and yet he's walking
31:46
Speaker 2: the streets.
31:47
Speaker 4: Damien and Frank retired police, you know, detectives Damien Link Cafe.
31:51
Speaker 2: You know, teachers. It's not like they're just a little
31:54
Speaker 2: country town kind of detective.
31:57
Speaker 4: There weren't major cases, but you're treating them like they're
32:02
Speaker 4: also rubbish.
32:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they won't even really I mean when they
32:06
Speaker 1: were put on the case. So we're both towards the
32:09
Speaker 1: end of their careers, and Frank hatt had health issues.
32:12
Speaker 1: I think Damien had as well, and they were sort
32:14
Speaker 1: of like giving him something to do. He's a thirty
32:16
Speaker 1: boxes of material. I have a look through this and
32:18
Speaker 1: see what you come up with.
32:20
Speaker 3: You know. Sure enough, they smacked it out of the park. Unbelievable.
32:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's the kind of
32:26
Speaker 2: detectives they are. I don't think they ever thought that
32:30
Speaker 2: anything would come of it.
32:31
Speaker 4: I think that was just like, oh, here we go,
32:33
Speaker 4: we'll just you know, let them pass time. He's something
32:35
Speaker 4: for them to do kind of thing. I can't imagine
32:38
Speaker 4: what they're feeling and thinking, because I know I see Frank,
32:43
Speaker 4: and every time I see Frank, he takes it to heart,
32:46
Speaker 4: and I worry that he takes on too much because
32:49
Speaker 4: he's taking it on personally, like his family, Especially when
32:52
Speaker 4: you know that it's the right person.
32:55
Speaker 1: There's no other suspect, and I think that confession needed
32:58
Speaker 1: to be tested in a court.
32:59
Speaker 3: I mean, at least go back to the coroner.
33:01
Speaker 1: I mean that's something that I also believe could still happen,
33:05
Speaker 1: is for the coroner to say, Okay, well we couldn't
33:08
Speaker 1: admit this confession into evidence, but let's hold an inquest.
33:13
Speaker 1: This is new and fresh, compelling evidence that needs to
33:16
Speaker 1: be dealt with. So a coroner could say, on the
33:19
Speaker 1: balance of probabilities, based on this inadmissible statement, Mercury is
33:25
Speaker 1: the man, and have him sit in the box and
33:28
Speaker 1: be asked questions.
33:30
Speaker 4: Absolutely absolutely, well, I think it will ever happen.
33:33
Speaker 2: No, I don't. I honestly don't believe this will ever
33:36
Speaker 2: go to court. Doesn't matter what we do, I don't.
33:40
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
33:41
Speaker 1: The other head scratcher for me was when that witness
33:46
Speaker 1: came forward from Wollongong. He's now a successful businessman. Back
33:49
Speaker 1: in the day, he was an immigrant with his family
33:51
Speaker 1: down there, and he saw on that day a person
33:56
Speaker 1: carrying away a small child. He didn't say anything at
33:59
Speaker 1: the time, he didn't realize the significance, but over the
34:02
Speaker 1: years then he saw Mercury get arrested for it and charged.
34:07
Speaker 1: You thought, well, okay, job's done. Then he gets cases
34:10
Speaker 1: dismissed and he thinks he thinks I should come forward.
34:14
Speaker 1: And the police to this day have not interviewed him.
34:20
Speaker 4: Nope, Nor have they interviewed Mercury's work colleagues. Okay, like
34:25
Speaker 4: every witness that has come forward, they have not spoken
34:29
Speaker 4: to them.
34:30
Speaker 2: Not once. One was a quick on the phone and
34:33
Speaker 2: see you later. Never spoke to again.
34:35
Speaker 4: No, and these are full detail, you know, things that
34:39
Speaker 4: the witnesses have seen Mercury. Drew is like who better
34:42
Speaker 4: than his work colleague that'd been working with him for.
34:45
Speaker 2: Years, that knows Mercury. No, you know, and you won't
34:49
Speaker 2: speak to him. That's ludicrous like that? How do you
34:53
Speaker 2: not family members of Mercury? It's just such a weird situation.
34:59
Speaker 4: I just I can't if this was one of the
35:02
Speaker 4: detective's children, or New South Wales police or a politician's child.
35:07
Speaker 2: Would we even be having this conversation. Don't mean to
35:10
Speaker 2: bring this up and whatever, but you know that des
35:12
Speaker 2: who shot you know the police officers.
35:15
Speaker 4: You are doing everything in your power to manhunt this
35:18
Speaker 4: person because it was police officers.
35:21
Speaker 2: But for a three year old little girl who has
35:23
Speaker 2: you have a confession, a detailed confession.
35:26
Speaker 4: And you won't even do your job, but yet you're
35:29
Speaker 4: still looking for this other person. That to me, I
35:32
Speaker 4: want to scream at the top of my logs because
35:35
Speaker 4: that's not our justice system.
35:37
Speaker 2: But that's not right. How are you.
35:39
Speaker 4: Getting more privileged because that's a police officer versus a
35:43
Speaker 4: three year old child.
35:44
Speaker 2: It should be the same on every case. You should
35:47
Speaker 2: be putting all.
35:49
Speaker 4: Your heart and soul into getting their answers, especially when
35:52
Speaker 4: the answers are right in front of you.
35:53
Speaker 2: It's been handed to you on a silver clatter. Here
35:55
Speaker 2: it is.
35:55
Speaker 4: These two detectives have gone above and beyond, and yet
35:58
Speaker 4: you're not doing anything about it.
36:00
Speaker 2: But you're using all the resources to go and track
36:02
Speaker 2: down this person in the middle of a bush. Yeah,
36:05
Speaker 2: it angers me.
36:07
Speaker 3: I'm sure it does.
36:08
Speaker 1: This inquiry, I guess, is another moment where your family
36:11
Speaker 1: can relate your experience of not just the possible culprit,
36:16
Speaker 1: but how the investigation was run.
36:19
Speaker 3: Do you think you're going to go up for it?
36:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I probably.
36:25
Speaker 2: I want to be there for the whole if I can.
36:30
Speaker 4: Like for the first time I went to a long
36:32
Speaker 4: library and to be in a room with other people
36:36
Speaker 4: that kind of had similar stories to us. I didn't
36:39
Speaker 4: realize how many of us there were that are treated
36:42
Speaker 4: the same way, like we are the perpetrator and it
36:45
Speaker 4: shouldn't happen.
36:47
Speaker 2: I think this is.
36:48
Speaker 4: Also about fighting for them and for their families.
36:52
Speaker 2: Not just Shelly.
36:54
Speaker 1: It certainly is, and I think there's so many people,
36:57
Speaker 1: as you say, who were suffering in exactly the same
36:59
Speaker 1: situation as you. They're dealing with this intergenerational trauma. How
37:04
Speaker 1: it's whole out your family, I mean, none of you.
37:07
Speaker 1: Your dad Ricky is not a bad person. He's done
37:10
Speaker 1: things that you don't agree with. He's credited a distance
37:13
Speaker 1: in your relationship, but he's not a bad person. And
37:16
Speaker 1: I think that your experience will help others to understand
37:23
Speaker 1: what they're going through in their families. You weren't there.
37:26
Speaker 1: You weren't there when Cheryl disappeared. You unfortunately looked like Cheryl.
37:32
Speaker 1: You remind your father of Cheryl. And I think this
37:35
Speaker 1: would be a very common experience for people. What advice
37:39
Speaker 1: would you give people? And you're still going through it,
37:41
Speaker 1: so you're not expecting.
37:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's very hard for me because you know the
37:46
Speaker 4: fact that, yeah, I look like Cheryl. I was the
37:49
Speaker 4: firstborn girl after Cheryl had been taken. So it was
37:52
Speaker 4: a lot of pressure, you know, even for my name
37:54
Speaker 4: to tell my mum, Hey, you know, you've got to
37:57
Speaker 4: include Cheryl's name in Melanie's name.
38:00
Speaker 2: It was a lot of pressure for me.
38:01
Speaker 4: So I can only hope or try and help other
38:04
Speaker 4: peop peopaul that have gone through the same kind of trauma,
38:07
Speaker 4: to try and ease them, help them, make them understand,
38:12
Speaker 4: make other people aware of you know, Yes, the child
38:15
Speaker 4: was taken that day, but it affects everybody like it
38:18
Speaker 4: just doesn't affect you know. Yes, sure was taken all
38:22
Speaker 4: my grandparents and my dad, but then it's how it
38:25
Speaker 4: shapes his life and then the children of him and
38:28
Speaker 4: so forth.
38:30
Speaker 2: We all take something from that.
38:33
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now I often say this.
38:35
Speaker 1: I'm the son of a psychiatrist, right, so this this
38:38
Speaker 1: is my way of looking at the world that I
38:39
Speaker 1: ask you, have you had any family counseling, sat down
38:43
Speaker 1: with somebody, do you think it's time to do that?
38:47
Speaker 4: Should we do it? I don't know for it's time.
38:50
Speaker 4: I don't know if my dad's ready for that.
38:52
Speaker 2: But should we do it.
38:53
Speaker 4: Absolutely we should. Should I sleep counseling, Yes, I should.
38:57
Speaker 4: Me and Dad joke about it all the time.
39:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a tough one.
39:01
Speaker 1: I had issues with my mother and she's now gone,
39:03
Speaker 1: and she'd actually suggested a couple of times that we
39:05
Speaker 1: have that, and I wish we'd done it as well,
39:07
Speaker 1: And now she's gone, we can't do it. So I
39:10
Speaker 1: guess again, I see it through that prison. Dad was
39:13
Speaker 1: a psychiatrist, and but he wasn't that good at having
39:15
Speaker 1: these conversations either. But you know, in this unique circumstance,
39:20
Speaker 1: I think that would be a good idea. But I
39:21
Speaker 1: think the first thing is, Dadda, have a listen to
39:24
Speaker 1: this here your heartfelt love for him, and you'll desire for,
39:28
Speaker 1: you know, some happiness in the future between you and
39:30
Speaker 1: I'll do everything I can to promote that. I really
39:33
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing these They're very difficult notions and thoughts.
39:38
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, thank you for helping me share that with Dad.
39:43
Speaker 4: I'd been counseling for a very long time, to be honest, Adam,
39:47
Speaker 4: so with Dad would probably go broke because that's how
39:52
Speaker 4: much counseling we probably need.
39:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think what it does do is provide
39:56
Speaker 1: a framework going forward, and you know, the counsel is
40:00
Speaker 1: never going to find the answer, but it's going to
40:02
Speaker 1: allow you to speak your truth to each other and
40:06
Speaker 1: brought out of love and trying to find that language
40:09
Speaker 1: between you for a new framework and to accept the
40:12
Speaker 1: possibility there may never be an answer. And that's the
40:15
Speaker 1: sad reality. There are hundreds and hundreds of cases in
40:18
Speaker 1: Australia that I've looked at it personally but I know
40:21
Speaker 1: of but there is no answer. So at a certain
40:25
Speaker 1: point we have to live for the living and reconcile
40:28
Speaker 1: the past.
40:29
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, so here I think that's if anything could
40:33
Speaker 4: come out of this, it's for my dad to realize
40:36
Speaker 4: that we are in the land of living and to
40:39
Speaker 4: not as.
40:39
Speaker 2: Much as Cheryl is his focus.
40:42
Speaker 4: You know, you've got four beautiful grandchildren, You've got a daughter.
40:46
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's important to be present too. If we can
40:49
Speaker 4: walk away with him understanding.
40:51
Speaker 2: That, I'm happy.
40:57
Speaker 3: That's Melanie Grimmer.
40:59
Speaker 1: I'm sure there are people out there who've gone through
41:01
Speaker 1: similar traumas and the intergeneration nature of this means it
41:07
Speaker 1: doesn't go away. And I think I love Ricky struggle.
41:12
Speaker 1: I'll always back him, but I also want him to
41:15
Speaker 1: hear what his daughter's saying. It's time to have those conversations.
41:19
Speaker 1: It's time to resolve the past, no matter what the
41:21
Speaker 1: future holds. This resonates for hundreds of families around Australia
41:26
Speaker 1: who have never got answers to their tragedies. I hope
41:30
Speaker 1: in the new year this Parlament inquiry does bring hope.
41:33
Speaker 1: But I think it's also about dialogue. It's about moving
41:35
Speaker 1: forward with love, and that's what we've heard today. If
41:39
Speaker 1: you can help in this situation, you can always call
41:41
Speaker 1: crime Stoppers. Even though you might not trust the police
41:43
Speaker 1: after what you've heard in this podcast and the whole
41:45
Speaker 1: Grim investigation, I still do believe that there are people
41:48
Speaker 1: like Damian Luna and Frank sam Vittali still in New
41:50
Speaker 1: South Wales Police or in other states that do care
41:53
Speaker 1: enough to have some dash to have a go. So
41:56
Speaker 1: you can always call crime Stoppers one one hundred, triple three,
41:59
Speaker 1: triples zero. You can also put submissions into the New
42:02
Speaker 1: South Wales Parliament inquiry. Will put then for that in
42:05
Speaker 1: the show notes. But failing all that, you can always
42:09
Speaker 1: email me and I'll have a red hot go. Adam
42:11
Speaker 1: Shander writer at gmail dot com. Thank you for listening.
42:15
Speaker 1: This has been Adam Shan for Real Crime.
42:26
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