Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Why it’s an advantage to be a young financial planner – Dan Martin

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Why it’s an advantage to be a young financial planner – Dan Martin · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, it's Elena back for this week's episode of the Financial Planner Life Podcast.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: And this week I'm joined by Dan Martin, Director and Chartered Financial Planner at MDM Wealth.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: In this week's episode, we talk about how working in a small business can accelerate your success, how to get yourself up to chartered status and the responsibility the industry has moving forward to close the advice gap.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: How are you this morning, Dan?
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very well, Elena.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: How are you?
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very well, thank you.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with me this morning.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I like to begin this with everyone, but do you mind talking me through a little bit about your career journey today and how you've got to this point?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: So um I I didn't plan on coming into the financial planning profession, I guess, like a lot of people, um, although it did it did turn into that.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: I uh finished my A levels um here in rugby.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't get the results I wanted, unfortunately, but now it's actually a blessing.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: I look back and think, actually, I'm glad I didn't get the results I wanted.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think I would have gone off and done a pretty pointless degree.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, not saying what I was, I won't say what I was going to go do because it would be about to be pointless for everybody else who has done it.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't think it would have actually provided me what I wanted at the end of the university experience.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I took a year out.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I played rugby uh for Bedford Blues Academy.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: I worked in a pub um and I resat a couple of exams in the summer and got a couple more grades that I needed, but I still didn't want to go down, go down that route.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: So um my mum actually knew someone at Coventry University at the time.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I sat down in my parents and and they're both uh from financial services backgrounds.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um my mum worked in Lloyd's Bank all of her life, pretty much, and my dad is also um an independent financial advisor and has been a financial advisor one way or another for the past sort of 30 years.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: So this was back in sort of 2014, 2013.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I kind of sat down with them and they just said, look, maybe go try this course.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: The course was finance and investment.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was always always interested in that sort of thing.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, having parents, you you have conversations, you see what your parents do.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: I did a bit of work experience for dad back in sort of year nine, year 10, or something like that.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I was interested to sort of explore that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew obviously that the financial services industry here in the UK is the biggest or one of the biggest sectors for employment.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that was good from a thinking ahead of what do I do after university.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I went off to Conference University, um, turned up at my first seminar with just an open mind and thought, let's just see how this goes.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was lucky to have a couple of course tutors who had previously been in the advice space and had been, you know, chartered financial planners in their own right.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one of the course directors was, and that was already sticking out to be a really um good career path um for a couple of reasons, and that the there just wasn't that many people wanting to go into it, and there wasn't enough people already in it.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought from a you know, from a career prospect position, that's a pretty good start to to find an industry where they're crying out for young people to actually join.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's and that's good for career prospects and actually earnings potential and those sorts of things long term.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: So um I I kind of had my heart set on that for the next three years throughout my degree.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, worked worked fairly hard and got my first class degree, and and in my final year, um, I got a couple of offers for some of the local firms, some fairly large names.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: But what they were offering didn't feel sort of right for me in terms of where I wanted to go personally.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I got home and sat down with my dad and said, Look, it's fantastic.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've got these job offers, so I you don't need to look after me anymore.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Almost, I can can go and pick these up.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I said, what would be the opportunity of sort of coming and working for you?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, what could what could you offer me?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because at the time my dad was one of four partners um in a business in Kenilworth, and he was an independent financial advisor.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: So he was working in that capacity.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I just said, look, what if I come and support you?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: Start me off with a basic salary and support me through my exams and see how I get on.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's a real sort of pit stop.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're here five years later.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: We my dad and I demerged from that business.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and now I'm leading most of the client relationships here at MDM.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and past my exams got to got to sort of chartered with you know the incredible support of him, the rest of my family.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we're really family-run business now here at MDM Wells.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you've you've had a really interesting career journey today.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really interesting what you were talking about, you know, and it's um a recurring theme that I sometimes come across with financial planners is that you don't necessarily need to be academic at school to be a successful financial planner.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting that, you know, took a step back, did that year out, and then ended up going to university later with sort of the view of stepping into financial advice.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: When you joined um your, you know, the business that you joined, you know, alongside your dad however many years ago, what was your first position within sort of financial planning?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh I was just an administrator effectively.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I was doing everything pre and post-meeting almost.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: So letters of authority, emails, chasing it, opening posts, making teas and coffees for clients coming in.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: So just the absolute basics.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the benefit of joining, well, certainly I think so, anyways, the benefit of joining a small business as it as it was was that I just got exposure to everything pretty much straight away to see the workings of it.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas I guess if you if I would have joined one of the larger firms, I would have had a different experience.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: It would have been probably more siloed in that this is your role, another team do other things.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I yeah, really got to put my hand to a lot of different things, not just from a client sort of facing side, but um as well in and within the business, really.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: How does it all work?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: How does it all run?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: The marketing, the financials, and everything else.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I learned an awful lot, and that was that was a great experience.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then did you progress steadily onwards through the roles then to get you to like the the the place you are now?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Did you do a bit of power planning and then sort of you know climb the ladder, as we say?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: So I just I think it's just like trying your hand at stuff.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it was kind of a situation where dad would say, Look, I've got this review report to put together, or we've got a new client, we're doing a sort of pension consolidation or whatever.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd just just have a go.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: He'd then mark it, it'd be sent off to be checked, and then you know, come back.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: Where have I, where could I improve, where what could I do better?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: And we just slowly over time build up better systems for that.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And you just you just learn what's working, what's not working.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I completely agree with what you're saying in regards to small businesses.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, don't get me wrong, I've got exposure working with amazing businesses, all of different scales that operate in different sizes.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I also do agree with the fact that sometimes with larger companies, you are within a role and you have to fit within a cog in a certain machine, and you have to fit in that position to keep the business running smoothly.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you are incremental to the process.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: However, with a smaller business, you do very often, as you've demonstrated, get the exposure to dip your toes in different things and to really um, I think you can have more influence in a smaller business.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can be maybe in a lower level position, um, but can speak to seniors more openly about potentially where processes can be improved.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you think maybe working within a smaller organization has helped age your or like catalyst cat being as like a catalyst to get your progression to the stage you are now in such a quick time frame?
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Without a doubt, without a doubt.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of like the sink or swim kind of analogy.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: You either you either almost just react to it and and pull your head above the water and actually figure out how am I gonna what to survive and then turn that into you know thriving.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: And there's there's lots of ways I think you can do that within a small business.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: And really, I'd say for anyone thinking of that type of thing, get yourself in a small business and and create yourself a platform.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, create leverage for your for yourself personally by doing a really good job that works for you and it also works for the business.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: So even though, you know, as a father-son relationship, we still, you know, very much we're like, this is also business.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: We're not here to, you know, mess around and things have to be right.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I think actually if you have that, then it makes it better for for both parties, both employer and employee.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: If an employee wants to, you know, go for it, create their, create their platform, add value.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if they're not being valued by the employer, to me, that's the that's the employer's loss, not the employees, because they can at least demonstrate that and and move on, to be honest.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think very often within businesses and especially small businesses, the business is driven by the people within it.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So being working within a smaller business can give you the opportunity to see gaps and processes, as you mentioned previously, and make them more efficient.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Or on the flip side, if you are really interested and really passionate about something and it's not something the business is doing, you can be the driver to move that forward.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: While within a larger company, that sometimes gets can can occasionally be lost.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I I personally think that individuals don't sometimes see the value that working in a small business can add because they, you know, large companies have big names, massive national reputations, but um, you miss, you miss sort of the influence that you can have within a smaller firm.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think, you know, the the major responsibility now being an employer myself, it lies with the employer in in insofar as you know given recognition and reward for things that employees have done um and done to improve the business.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's like absolutely vital to be part of the culture that that happens.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, why would you want to add more value or go above and beyond, really?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think um the profession generally is somewhere, you know, working with clients, allowing them to live their authentic lifestyles and reach their financial goals is something that is really fulfilling and you can notice the value that you can add.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: But I think maybe sometimes if you're not in that direct advice role, you know, sat face to face with clients, you can maybe miss that at times.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like working within a business where you can add value in different elements leads you to live or have a fulfilled career.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess we've spoken about, you know, how working within a small business has been a key driver to get you, you know, to that director level.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but obviously you are, you know, a young age profile financial advisor within the industry as it is, but you're also a director within a company.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think lots of people within the audience and lots of individuals that are young financial planners will also have that ambition to get to a directorship position within the now, within the future.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Have you got any other tips on how you can navigate that?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: How did you get yourself to that position?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's building upon what I've just said, is build building yourself a foundation.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, ultimately, if I'm a if I'm a business leader, whether you're in a small or large organization, there has to be some form of succession within within that organization.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people don't live forever and people retire, which is what we spend a lot of our yeah, a lot of our um a lot of our time helping clients with.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: So my tips for that are really to almost make a business case and a business proposal, which is what I did to my dad.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: I said, look, there's certain goals that are evidently you want to achieve, there's goals that I want to achieve.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think if you just bring that forward, then at the minimum you've made your, you know, you've you've made your stance, you've made your employer or your, I guess, the senior management team aware that that's what you want to pursue.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: And that will only that will only drive things.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, again, it's creating that that leverage for yourself personally within the organization that look, I know a lot about this area and I can improve this area drastically.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, that that came around things that I was really good at and I was, you know, a lot more um in touch with than the business was at the time.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I looked at all the the tech, the processes, the cash flow modeling, all that sort of stuff, and really introduced that to the business, which you know took things on leaps and bounds.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: So I almost proved that I could do part of it.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think over time that gives whoever it is.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now, obviously, I'm lucky, I've got, you know, my dad, he tr he trusts me, which is which is you know, I'm not let's not beat around the bush here.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's a you know, a really helpful starting place for for an individual to already have that trust built up, but I still had to almost earn the trust for him to go, actually, yeah, you can do it.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it was it was just little little things from a business perspective.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when we made the directly authorized application to the FCA, I managed it, I did quite a lot of it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: I did the novation of the clients, had all the processes and systems designed.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you take on a project like that and you know, with the oversight, of course, but if it's correct, then it's correct and you've proved that you can do it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that just builds the confidence for someone in a more senior position to say, absolutely, run with it.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So would you say it's definitely about not necessarily being reactive but proactive?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you want to be in that, if you're if you want to be in that position and you believe you have the characteristics and the credentials to get be in that position, it's all about you know, not just sitting on your hands and you know saying that's what I want to do, but actually being proactive and putting that out there and demonstrating why you're good at that.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, yeah.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I fully agree.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is with lots of, you know, with our audience across the board, if you're looking to sort of move from one position and keep on progressing, it's not always about waiting for a job opportunity to come up within the um company or you know, applying for things online.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's about being proactive and making that opportunity for yourself.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's as you've demonstrated how you can get the most success and at a quicker level.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So ultimately, you know, you are a chartered financial independent financial advisor, you are also a director.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: I guess at the moment you're wearing lots of different hats.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned you're also an employer, so I guess you've got a lot going on.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you cope with that?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: How do you cope with that?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because um, you know, what I always joke about it, one minute you've got your training hat on, next minute you've got, you know, you're you sat with a meeting in front of clients.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, how do you navigate through that very busy, complex environment?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the main part of being able to change the hats comes down to just having fairly stringent principles and and rules around what you what you do and what you don't do.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you have to be within a small business, you have to be to some degree versatile.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have to be able to cope with things changing because things happen quite quite quickly that you do need to react to.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: You can't always be proactive.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think what we found is, and certainly what I found has helped me the most is spending some time when we were designing MDM wealth and what we wanted it to look like, is being really proactive about um our processes and what we do, particularly client side, so that I know taking on a client initially or looking after them on an ongoing basis.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: We've got all our processes written down in our back office system.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: So people know what they should be doing, I know what elements I'm doing, uh, my team know what elements they're doing.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that part rooms, you know, really, really, really smoothly.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And therefore, it allows me the space and time.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I block out sections of my diary to then focus on the business.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: So if that's recruitment or marketing or business projects I want to push through, I have, you know, a couple of mornings a week where my sole focus is just right.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now I need to push the client work to one side for a second and focus on how do we keep improving as a business.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, in short summary, block out, block out time to be, to be doing that sort of stuff.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, you won't get the time.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and the second thing is really, yeah, design your processes um up front uh so that you you're not having to do um too much or or you're taking on too much and not delegating.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: And it's something I've you know I've had to learn pretty quickly because it's changed from me supporting my dad to now we've got a team supporting me.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so you have to be able to delegate effectively, of which my team will will laugh and say we're still quite there's there's still quite a lot of things that I probably should should move off my desk.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I am getting better and better at doing that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Still a journey.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: It always is, it always is.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Always is, but I think it's really interesting to hear about how you manage, um, you know, navigate through what can be a really busy day.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, there's only 24 hours in a day, and very often it doesn't feel like enough.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think whatever position you're in, whether you're in a director, whether you're in a management, it is a very busy, complex environment.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that can sometimes act as a barrier for people to step into those management positions because they feel like it's too much to handle and you want to put your 100% into everything.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: May that be just your day job and then other all the other things that that encompasses.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really interesting to hear about how you go about that with the time blocking.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's probably something that I could take on board as well and to get the best out of your day and make it as efficient as possible, really.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: It takes the reality is it takes a lot of hard work, and some people want to shy away from hard work.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the year we set up the business, I was putting in the hours.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, I I'm a I play rugby semi-professionally, and I stopped doing that for a whole season to get the system set up and get the process processes written down and you know, really think about all these things.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: So you do need to, you know, if you if you want to do it from a small business perspective, you you gotta put in the work.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's no shortcut around that.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: But now that I'm in it, I make I make pretty stringent rules to to prevent me overworking and burning out around, you know, finishing on, you know, finishing on time.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because within this profession, there is always something you could be doing, particularly in a small bit.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: You can you can just keep working, you can keep working.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you do have to have rules around right now.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's time to go home, switch off as well.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned those rules.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: What are a couple of them?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have like a cut-off, like a curve?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't do, uh and I know many advisors, and I guess it's the type of lifestyle you want, but I don't I don't work any weekends whatsoever.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't go out and see clients in the evening unless it's like absolutely needed.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I won't sort of take a meeting start time after 4:30.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've I've probably lost a couple of clients I could have taken on for that fact, but that that's fine because I don't want to set the precedent that I will be coming out to see you at seven o'clock at night when you're eating your dinner.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's just just you know, not not the I don't think it sends the right message, but also um I'm not gonna be at my best.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I I want to be able to give my best to each of my clients.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I don't um there, they're they're a couple of the main ones really.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um like I said, just making sure that when that time is blocked out to focus on the business, you know, at least using some of it to switch off the client, take the client hat off for a second to put the business one on.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I completely agree.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think feel like to have an element of work life balance, if you're someone that puts everything into their job, you have to have some element of, you know, rules.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, I am awful at checking my emails just before I go to bed.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And something I'll see, something that I don't want to see, and that's it.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: I can't sleep at night.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just busy thinking about it.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, like for me, it's leaving the the my work phone in.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Office on a Friday and then pick it up on the Monday morning so I'm not stressing about what's coming through over the weekend.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um but do you think you know those little things that you put into place and the organization and the management we've just sort of discussed allows you to live a healthy work life balance?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because I agree with what you say, you know, it's very easy to fall into the habit of seeing clients at 7 p.m.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: and working weekends because it's easier, but then at the end of the day, it diminishes your work life balance, even though it might be better for the business.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like what we for me, it's practice what you preach.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm sat down telling the client to, you know, balance their life, you know, today versus tomorrow, now versus then, which is all essentially at the core, is what financial planning is about, is making, you know, trying to live well today, but also plan really for me, it's live well today, plan responsibly for tomorrow.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's all that's what all of us are trying to do.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: And there's levels at which we go to the extremes to create that balance over our lives, like we work harder during certain periods than others, and that's absolutely fine, but it's the length of time you're going to be doing that for to avoid the the burnout.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, for for me it's been absolutely vital to kind of continue those things.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel I'm living a fairly um healthy and well-balanced lifestyle.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: I certainly hope to think so.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think it's so important because you definitely reap what you sow.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: As you said, you know, those hard hours that you put in, especially you know, when you're demerging and things like that, those hard hours that you put in, you reap what you sow, it's gonna come back and lent tenfolds in the future.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, that isn't consistent and burnout is only gonna stop you from being, you can maybe overwork for a week, but then you get burnout, and that's gonna stop you from being productive the following week instead of spending the time.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you think for people that necessarily because I'm sure there's people that will be listening to this within the audience that feel an element of burnout, as we touched on before, do you think having stringent rules, personal rules, you know, so you're working for now but thinking about yourself tomorrow will help sort of eliminate that?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, yeah.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: For for me, it starts with I've always been big into sport and exercise, but just ensuring to some degree that every day I'm doing some form of exercise.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Now it might be a walk.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: Other days I'm gonna have rugby training or be going to the gym.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_02: But it's so, so important to make those a priority within your day, whether it's half an hour, 15 minutes, an hour, that it just you know clears your head, stress release, everything else.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: We we all know the benefits.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's just sometimes hard to get off the couch or whatever and and actually and actually do it after a long, hard day when you just want a a beer or something, plus a wine.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: But it it's that type of stuff that I think take take your diary and just go, like we do with clients, what does your ideal week look like?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now we have to work, so work has to go in there, um, because you know, got to earn a living.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: So work has to go in there, but not not too much.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's the times outside of that, being, I think, intentional with with having a structure to your day and what you're actually going to do.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um now I I play rugby for a club, so I've at the minimum almost got an enforced structure on me that I have to be somewhere at a certain time, but it's such a such a vitally important thing that I know that that is structured and I'm gonna have to do that essentially.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think, yeah, maybe even joining doesn't have to be sport, it could be whatever sort of creative pursuit that you want to do.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I think finding something that you enjoy to switch off that you know you're gonna go do on a regular basis just gives you the consistency of breaking up the work and the week.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sport that you've mentioned on is not necessarily everyone's pursuit um or the way that they sort of feel relaxed.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: But for example, for me, I joined a gym about less than a year ago now, and I don't know what I did without it, to be honest.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not all about um being fitter, which was my main reason to go.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's the mental health benefits of it that have been the most noticeable.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I've had I've had days where I've been stressful and just running for 20 minutes, just being focused on moving makes you feel so much better.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess you you said, you know, you come from a sporting background, um, you've, you know, worked sort of semi-professionally, professional rugby.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: How has that translated um into what you're doing now?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Has it taught you lots of attributes that you bring on moving forward?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, without a doubt, probably that the largest um impact to my life has been sport in one way or another, in that it just it just teaches you, well, certainly the rugby community.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know about other sports, that's what I've been involved with, but but the principles of the game, um, you know, just really helped me in the business world, communication, teamwork, knowing that things aren't always going to go to plan.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I guess the whole, you know, just yourself off and get back up.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I really don't know where I'd be without sport in some capacity, particularly rugby.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um I completely resonate with what you're saying.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that, you know, that that movement outlet and letting your body move um really supports you with your your mental mindset.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, being physically active to an extent, I've personally noticed that it does help my mental health.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then that on the flip side makes me more productive.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: As I said, I had a week a couple of days ago, I was so stressed, and just running for 20 minutes was way good better than me just sitting there on my phone on my lunch for 20 minutes and just feeling even more jealous of everyone living as lives online.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then talking about online, um, I've obviously followed you on Instagram and I've seen the video.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was that bit of like a lockdown project as well, sort of the videos that you were putting out there.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I personally find them super, super informative.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: When you first started doing them, apart from being like another creative um outlet, what was what you wanted to achieve?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um it was it was for me just going, is there another way?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: We all know, or certainly, you know, for for the benefit of listeners, I'm sure most of them will be planners in some capacity or people thinking of getting into the industry.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: But there is the advice gap that you know we know of.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as I mentioned about me coming into the industry, it's you know, well documented.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's just not enough advisors at the moment.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and so it was my way of exploring how could that be plugged to some degree without giving advice to the individual, which is the definition of advice.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the word advice gets banned around.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I know a lot of planners will be going, you know, that's not advice, this is advice.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we have the whole, I guess, regulatory thing of this is guidance and this is advice.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: And it also came from seeing, I guess, money bloggers, other financial um bloggers online um and content creators creating, in some degree, what I thought was fairly damaging stuff.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, it was good to get clicks, it was good to get likes, and it all makes sense.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, this heart, this whole sort of work hard, you know, you you literally do your nine to five and then you set up another business and you're just constantly working all the time without actually understanding the core principles of just basic financial management.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so it was a way for me to sort of creatively express myself and in lockdown actually, you know, put some of the time um at home and the spare time to good use, um, and just yeah, work on my own skills of actually doing this because we're in an era now where you and I are not in the same physical location, and pretty much 50 to 60 percent of my meetings are actually probably now on Zoom versus face-to-face.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it has come back quite a lot, obviously, but not to the same degree as it was prior to COVID.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're gonna have to have the ability to have, I guess, screw almost like screen presence as opposed to um just face-to-face presence when people can literally only see this part of you.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it was it was for a number of reasons, um, a number of different objectives.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's no business objective whatsoever, which is why um over the past six months, I've I've not really updated any of my Dan Talks money stuff at all.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's there, it's a brand, it's something I'm hoping to pick up again.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: But right now my my focus is MDM wealth and the clients within that and making sure they are they are well looked after.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because that's what pays the bills and everything else.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's that's vitally, vitally important.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, I'm I'm hoping to pick it up again, certainly in the future.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: I think the advisors in the in the main need to be creating more content, you know, need to be.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I sat down with a couple of clients this week and they sort of said how, despite what's going on currently, how confident and secure and everything they feel, but that's not shared with the world.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so the you know, the good stories do need to keep coming out to to fight off a lot of the a lot of the crap um and a lot of the bad stories that always get the limelight.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: And well, I will welcome the new content when it comes.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've really enjoyed the videos, and I think from a a younger, you know, the the next generation of individuals that'll be now be seeking, you know, fun financial advice, you know, young professionals.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think everyone knows about Instagram, everyone knows about TikTok, whether you're on them or not, but not everyone necessarily knows about financial planning.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think you know, using those new platforms, social media streams is an opportunity for you to connect or the industry to connect with the next generation that will be seeking financial advice?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, yeah, they they have to.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: They have to.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it's like um, I don't know, going to a cricket ground and expecting to see a game of rugby.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's like they're two different things.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I you need to do that whole hangout where the people you're trying to target are hanging out.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, our generation are on Instagram, are on TikTok a lot.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: They spend a lot of their day there, which is part and part why net you know, the the whole Netflix um share price decline is is happening the way it is, because they know that there's only so many hours that we can eat all consume content, and a lot of content by our generation is being you know consumed in in shorter form in quick 20-second, 30-second videos.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, my I've I've got a younger brother who's testament to that, Aaron.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: He uh he's a personal trainer, so a different industry.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but he uses he uses TikTok and Instagram literally for 20-second videos.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um he's he's gone from sort of 10,000 followers on Instagram to nearly 100,000 in a matter of months.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Just from producing videos.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, there's the financial planning, although it's not as it's not as sexy as the personal training industry and the muscles and everything else.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's absolutely not as glamorous.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think that to be honest, I think that's the crux of the the issue with it, is that it would take an awful lot of of time for someone in our profession, yeah, um, without focusing on the short-term principles, which is where you see financial bloggers and TikTokers or whatever, you see them grow followers quickly, yeah, is because they're promoting short-term solutions to long-term problems.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so people jump onto the short-term, you know, get rich quick schemes and all that and all that type of stuff.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: Cryptocurrency alternatives, whatever it may be, it's attractive because the gains can be so quick, but without understanding the principles of like you're gonna live for the next 60, 70 years, let's get the principles sorted first, and they will always take care of you and then move on to that.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not glamorous, that's not sexy in any way.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, to be saying to someone, look, you the the reality is you need to be making consistent contributions over a long period of time and being patient with it.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: But to a young person, that's like, oh, all right, grandma.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's all about changing that narrative, though, isn't it?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know, I jump on my Instagram now and have a look through my personal Instagram, through what people's stories are posting.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: I can guarantee someone will be posting about cryptocurrency.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: But it's 100%.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it's all about, for me personally, what I think it's about is while we look at the shaping the future of financial planning and what it's going to look like moving forward, um, the industry can be viewed as archaic and something that I when I speak to you know my friends and my social circle about what I do and what I'm industry I'm involved with within the you know the financial planning profession, everyone thinks it's something that you need access to when you're like 40.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: And by that time, you know, you've already missed 15, 20 years of your life when you could have been building on your wealth.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think bringing you know something that isn't necessarily glamorous and not that sexy, but into sort of the mainstream where people can access it and become familiarized with it, it becomes like something that they resonate with and they want to move forward with.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think if it all, you know, the way it works now works great.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I think bringing that, bringing financial planning into, you know, that social media sphere will allow more people of a younger generation to access it at a younger age.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I one of the, and I read this online, one of the judges from money marketing said, you know, he you'd simply change the firm from a traditional one from to something next level.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess that all ties in with an element of what we've discussed, been discussing about, you know, bringing um what you've been doing a bit more into the the virtual space, but um elaborate on these changes.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: I know you mentioned the cash flow modeling thing previously.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: What has your younger perspective allowed you to bring into the company?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: It it really is technology.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um if it if you were to put your finger on one thing, it is we live in a digital world and um pen and paper is great, you know.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: In an in a discovery meeting, I just start with a blank piece of paper because I think that's the best way.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: But it's being able to use this hybrid and a lot, you know, a lot of content's being produced by the publications around being a hybrid advisor and what that means.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, that that's that's the key change is actually leveraging the best technology that we have available to get to get the job done and provide best outcomes.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's been the the key difference.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we use a multitude of different tools for a lot of different things.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but they've made not only made the business more efficient, but they are providing a lot better outcomes longer term for clients and a lot more peace of mind.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what we exist for, um, is to be that guide for our clients, you know, not defend, some might say not defend an outdated map, but really be the compass.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and the technology allows you to do that um to best effect and for the the lowest common denominator, really.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's been the that's been the big difference.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And in terms of the business then as a whole, you know, bringing all this technology and you know, making it a bit more modern in that sense, has it, you know, benefited you from like a business monetary perspective?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because I guess, as you said, defend an old map.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: If if people are in a position where they feel like everything's going really well, you might not feel the push to make yourself better.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: So have you felt those changes that you bought you brought in with the technology as such has made like a transformational difference within the business?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, without a doubt.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Without a doubt.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's cemented the value in the ongoing planning.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the key part is that we can design this fantastic and initial financial plan, but even in a month's time, even in a week's time in the current world we live in, it could be completely out of date.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think having the the kind of cash flow modeling software, the risk profiling software, the investment management software that's now available to us, we can have far more in-depth conversations and provide a lot more peace of mind and confidence.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: And really, that's the objective that a client leaves, knowing, you know, if there's something wrong, what do we need to do about it?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but if everything's going right, just re-reconfirming and providing the confidence that look, you can walk out of that door and go and go enjoy almost the fruits of your labour.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of our clients have worked incredibly, incredibly hard to get into the positions they're in in the first place.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think it's you know of of vital importance to to do that really.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I um, you know, we've touched on the fact multiple times throughout this podcast that you are a younger age profile advisor.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're also a director of a company in that position.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Have you faced any barriers, do you think, due to your age?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that's ever cropped up?
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um not that I know of.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Not that I know of.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's always a good position to be in.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: I I I don't know, maybe there might have been, you know, if I look at how many initial client meetings I've held, there's some that have not progressed and others that have, there might be, you know, without surveying each of those clients to say what were the reasons you maybe didn't progress, um, then it's difficult.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: It may have been in part due to my age, but I don't think it's held me back in any way.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: If anything, I think it's an enormous advantage for younger planners, um, because you're going to be around, you know.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that, and that's really why MDM and what we've done here and the informed position we've put our clients in and what our business plans are.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's that's equally as important to let your clients know, you know, what it what's your plan, um, of which, you know, conversations my clients were having with dad 10 years ago, five years ago, to say, Matt, you're gonna retire at some time.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: What what happens then?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's you know, I think it's an opportunity for younger advisors within firms, whether big or small, um, to say, look, I'm gonna be around, you're gonna have consistency of advice um from me for an extended period of time.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: I might not be forever, but it's gonna be, you know, you're not gonna change from, and I've taken on a couple of clients in the past 12 months where they've literally been passed from one advisor to another, retired, retired, and it's like we're getting no consistency of relationship.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think that can be overlooked.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: We are in a relationship-dominated business.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: Having the openness, the trust that was built over time between our clients will allow them to get better outcomes for themselves.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it takes a lot of time, uh, and you know, a lot of patience from from both parties and a lot of trust.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I know it's a long way of answering your question, Elena.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's incredibly important.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that's really a really interesting standpoint to have because lots of individuals that I um I speak with who are younger age profile and within the industry and potentially aren't in advisory positions to date, but want to, you know, take that step up.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the feedback they get from their managers and the members within the team is that, oh, you're too young.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: Our clients aren't going to want someone of your age.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that acts as like quite a barrier for them to get that step up in the first place.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really interesting to hear the perspective of someone like, I don't feel like it's had any barriers.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Someone, someone I remember being a benefit.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: I remember being at a money marketing event in London, and there was a lady in her 60s advisor, and she's she was on the panel and said something along the lines of, look, my clients with a million pounds are not gonna trust a 27-year-old.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I just was like, I completely disagree.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I was I was 23 at the time, and obviously I'm gonna disagree because but I think it's such a but you wouldn't go into a uh a hospital with your leg hanging off.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if a doctor came up to you and he was 27, you wouldn't go, wait a minute, can I have an another doctor?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: You would want them to sort your leg out, knowing that they they've qualified, they are professional, um, and that they're gonna do the best thing, the best thing for you in their best capacity.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think it's quite a yeah, it's quite an outdated view to say that people are not going to trust those people.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think actually they will.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's about who you are, how much you listen to to those people and do the best job you can, uh, to be honest.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's an excellent analogy.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: I really, really like that.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's true, you know, in those sort of positions where when you go to the dentist, you don't, your dentist looks over you, don't go, oh, sorry, actually, you look too young to be doing this.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I want someone else.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you trust that they're qualified and they prove their worth.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think this is such a good um little piece for anyone that feels like that, or people that listen to this in a management position and have people that are young, um, you know, driven, qualified, hungry, it's the opportunity for them to add real value to your business, not the flip side of it.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um if you're not the right person, a client will work, a client will work that out pretty quickly, that it's not about the age, it's never been about the age.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the the years of experience are what's vital.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're only 27, then that's young, as I am.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: But I've had five years of literally client meeting, client meeting, client meeting, client meeting every day.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a lot of experience.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what's different from me having those five years and been doing what I'm doing, dealing with the clients I have versus someone who maybe switched career at 40 and then they're 42 years old, only had two years in the industry.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's just age, it doesn't matter.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: The client will work out whether they want to trust you or not, and that's for each individual client.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I think there's, as we've described about the advice gap, there's plenty of people who need advice being young as a planner should not hold you back.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that leads me really nicely into my next question.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we've spoken about the advice gap, we've spoken about how you made your way into the industry, um, and an element of your parents being in sort of financial services positions.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: My dad's also an advisor.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I had him knocking at my door, trying to get me to take over his business, not how it manifested.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing something similar, but not quite there.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: But how do we bring, you know, how do we close that advice gap?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: How do we bring people in?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like your university course was super interested in interested in being an element of that for yourself.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: But um, there's so many people that don't know about financial planners, so many people that don't know about how rewarding it is, so many people that don't know what they want to do after school and shouldn't go do a pointless degree if it doesn't feel like it's going to add them value.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: How do we bring this all together and try and get more people into the profession?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh it's it's an issue that I feel is being dealt with more now than it ever has been.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's a lot more routes to rent entry for people.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, next next gen planners are doing some incredible work in this space, you know, working in coordination with some of the universities.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was part of a wealth management mentoring scheme at Coventry University.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it's it's getting involved with those types of things, going to um university campuses where people are, you know, where people are coming out, college campuses and schools to say, look, this is a profession.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it could be as simple as I, you know, I've given a couple of talks this year to a local, a local school.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: Now it may be that only one kid is like, oh, that sounds pretty interesting.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't take that many to add up to actually be quite a lot of people that are interested in a in any given profession.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think in the context of you know me being at university and doing finance and investment, the you know, the big employers, the accountancy firms, the corporate finance firms, um, they they had the the big stools, they've got the big budgets, they've they've got the marketing to make it make it relevant.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I think in part it's to do with how we market it as a as a job and a career, you know, earnings potential, career progression, just the the nature of the job and how flexible you can be with working.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, what I love most about it is that I get to do a lot of technical stuff, but I also get to do a lot of this, a lot of conversation, a lot of meeting people, which I absolutely love.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and if you're a people's person who's got a you know a bit of tech bit of technical now behind you, it's the perfect job.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, without a doubt.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, I I think it's a couple of things.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think we need to market ourselves as planners almost to say, look, this is a this is a great career path.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you can do that in lots of ways, social media, YouTube, so on and so forth.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: But like I said, attending face-to-face, go and give a presentation to a school.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's lots of schools that have essentially, you know, PHSE or PSHE, is it programs, they need to fill gaps for speakers.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so even if you sent an email around to five schools to say, look, I'm I'm willing to come in and give an hour of my time just to talk um to your students, you're doing an incredibly valuable service for the local community, as well as attracting potentially some of those to actually come and work in the profession.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that's that's the kind of things I'd I'd sort of look at.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think there's an element of the individuals like yourself that are really passionate about the profession are really passionate about the future of it?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's an element of not responsibility, because I wouldn't say that's the right word, but of you know, responsibility in a sense of going out and showcasing that to attract the next talent moving forward, because you know, seeing powerful, independent, motivated people is only going to draw kids that are driven and ambitious into that sphere.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I know you said you didn't want to use the word responsibility, but I think there is an absolute responsibility.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because otherwise, where does, you know, where does our great profession go?
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: Past, you know, past me.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: The numbers are staying fairly stable over time, um, despite the uh well-documented max exodus of of advisors that are kind of in their 50s and 60s, that are always it's seemingly they're always going to retire in the next two or three years.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the numbers have stayed fairly similar, uh, which is interesting.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I think that actually, you know, there is a responsibility on people saying, look, it's worked out for me, and it is a great career.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think you should really consider it.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: And just to round us up nicely before we finish off, we've going back to sort of like your TikTok and the videos that you did before, what would you say, like the audience that is listening to this, potentially, you know, younger age profile people that want to step into the industry or younger age people, younger age profile people in general, what's your like best little nugget of financial guidance that you can give in like that that comes to mind?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know that's a big question.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Best nugget of financial guidance.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, pick a job, pick a career path where you've got scope to get yourself above a level of disposable income that you can pay yourself first with regularly.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: And by pay yourself first, it's like I said, about getting into the structure of exercise.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: It is almost taxing yourself for your future benefit.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: So take off, even if it you start at a really small percentage, you just set up a regular investment and just doing it and getting into the habit of doing it will will change, change your life financially longer term.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a lovely little, a very actionable response, I think, for the audience watching.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much, Dan, for joining me this morning.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate it.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's been great to hear about your career journey today, you know, the benefits that you have um have for working for a smaller business, how technologies really influenced you um at this stage and sort of how we can support um the profession moving forward.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, thank you very much, Dan, for speaking with me this morning.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Elena.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.