Latest / The Diary of a CFO / The CFO Playbook for Handling Crises and Building FP&A Functions, with Mike High

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The CFO Playbook for Handling Crises and Building FP&A Functions, with Mike High · The Diary of a CFO

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Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO podcast, the
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podcast where finance leaders share the lessons,
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challenges and wins that shape their careers
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as well as their organizations. I'm your host
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with Sia Camon, and today I'm super delighted
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to have with me Mike High. He is a CFO of Northern
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Alberta Institute of Technology, NAIT. And with
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25 years of international experience across public
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and private sectors, Mark is a collaborative
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leader who excels in talent development and cross
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-functional teamwork. Prior to that, Mike led
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teams across Canada, the U .S. and the Caribbean
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regions as EPO Finance. He also spent 17 years
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working at Shell. where he started as a financial
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analyst in 2005 and went all the way to chief
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financial officer in 2018 for the company's deep
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water, oil and gas business. Prior to his corporate
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finance career, Mike served as commission U .S.
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Army intelligence officer from 2000 to 2005 across
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Asia, the U .S. and Latin America. Welcome to
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Rockstar, Mike. Oh, thanks, Waseya. So pleasure
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to be with you. Thank you so much. I know you
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started in the U .S. Army and before stepping
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into the world of finance. So curious to hear
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how that experience shaped how you lead today.
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The addition of the word lead there is the right
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one. And I think, regardless of what function
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you might have done in the military, I think
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leadership is the primary purpose of why you're
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there. That's the primary thing you get out of
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your time there. And I maybe even contrast that
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with my corporate experience where we tend to
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think of function first and then realize later
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on that it's leadership that matters. So first
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might just be simply that mindset that recognizing
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your primary purpose on the planet is to be a
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leader. I think the second is, you know, there
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are things I wish I knew then that I know now.
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And some of that is I'd describe it as I probably
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started with the golden rule of leadership. So
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I thought there was one ideal and lead people
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the way I wanted to be led. And I think what
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I've evolved into is more of a platinum rule
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of leadership over my career, which is each individual
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person has a certain way that they should be
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led to get the best out of themselves. And so
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your role as a leader is to figure out what that
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personalized way is and meet them there more
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than trying to put out this one ideal. I think
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Maybe one last thing I would say on leadership,
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I think, is recognizing there's a wide stakeholder
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map, even in the military. And so whether that
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was working with other branches or functions
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within the military, whether that was working
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with other disciplines, whether that was even
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working with other branches of military, so Air
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Force to Army, Navy to Army, or even broader,
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working with other countries in collaboration
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to deliver your objectives. It's a mindset very
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early on in my career that was instilled. something
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to think wider about the stakeholder map and
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make sure you bring a broad coalition together
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to get your vision achieved. Wow. Thank you so
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much. I like how you said you went from the golden
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rule of leadership to now the platinum rule of
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leadership. Was there a specific event or something
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specific that happened along the way that made
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you realize you need that more personalized approach
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to leadership? Yeah, I mean, I'll maybe just
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start with honestly maturity. One thing I have
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tried to do a lot of over the course of my career,
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which I think is critical for leaders, is reflection.
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Really thinking about kind of why, if I was successful,
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why that success happened, but more importantly,
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you know, if I failed, why that failure happened.
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You know, there were some moments in my leadership
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in the military that I look back on and I got
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to think like, wow, the non -commissioned officer
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who was really in charge of the soldiers of that
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team. I was trying to step over them and really
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lead every single individual person as if I was
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the direct leader of every single person as opposed
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to really deferring to the wisdom and knowledge
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of that frontline supervisor and allowing them
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to be the leader. I think where I've matured
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in the platinum rule as well as recognizing my
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primary role is to lead the people I direct but
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directly report to me as well as possible and
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create them into leaders that lead their teams
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well. as opposed to trying to be that direct
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supervisor for everyone that's in the team. And
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it's not necessarily micromanagement, but I would
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say it's trying to manage, I probably try to
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manage every single. box on the chart and tried
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to establish that relationship. But it overstepped
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kind of the opportunity to develop the people
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who reported to me directly to be even better
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leaders than I was. And that's where how I've
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matured, I'd say over time in my approach on
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leadership is even if the team's large, the actual
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team you're primarily accountable for teaching
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to be great leaders still maintains just being
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those directly reporting to you. And really saving
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your energy to imagine is probably more relaxed
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to go and kind of stay in your lane if I can
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say. Yeah. And I think what I've learned about
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great business leaders, not even necessarily
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like the people leadership side, but their ability
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to think about scale and their ability to think
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about scale of impact. It's a high leverage thing
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to be able to develop your direct reports to
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be great leaders. It's less high leverage to
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try to be a leader to every single person on
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there in that exact same way. And so putting,
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doubling your energy into your direct reports
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versus spreading it peanut butter thin across
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everyone, it actually leads to better outcomes,
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as I've learned over time. And it's not to say
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there's not a role as a broad organizational
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leader to inspire the entire team and create
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the conditions for leadership success for others,
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but say the energy should primarily be focused
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on the folks who. have the responsibility, the
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privilege and the drawbacks of being your director
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for the drawbacks. I love it. Curious to hear
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your transition from the military into corporate
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finance. At what point did you find yourself
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saying I want to be a CFO? Why even getting into
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finance? It was pretty far into my career and
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I'll distinguish, I figured out in the transition
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that I wanted to be in finance. I actually didn't
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know that when I started my transition. It was
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through the transition process that I started
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seeing that I resonated mostly with companies
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that were hiring for finance and the role of
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finance seemed to resonate with kind of my inclinations
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toward, I would say, supporting decision making.
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having a seat at the table, being a bit more
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data and logic focused in terms of that decision
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making as well. And there are some things that
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overlapped with my role as an intelligence officer
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as well, but it was actually well into my first,
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but I would describe the business unit CFO role.
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So this was the one in the deep water Gulf of
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Mexico business in the U S for shell, where I
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was probably a few years into that role before
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it really clicked to say, Oh, actually the CFO
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part is what I most enjoy. Up until that point
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in my career, I'd thought of myself as a bit
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more of a functional expert, particularly it
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was the FP &A community that I'd grown up in.
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And so in my mind, I'd always thought of that
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as a broadening assignment I was doing to then
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go back into being maybe a senior vice president
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of FP &A or something. But I think where it really
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clicked for me was seeing the impact I could
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have well outside the finance function. And it
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was things like A couple years into that role,
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I was in a place where new general managers were
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coming on to the leadership team with me. I was
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the CFO in the leadership team. They were maybe
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a head of engineering or head of operations.
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In particular, a number of expats who were coming
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into that team and this US team. It was a tough
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world in this time. This is the window around
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George Floyd. COVID was in this window as well,
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some hurricanes hitting the Gulf Coast, and realizing
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that I could be a leadership resource to new
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leaders on that leadership team that were not
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of a finance background to help them be better
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general managers and integrate into this general
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manager leadership team that really clicked to
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me. But it's in the finance function. The only
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role that really gets to do that is the CFO,
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where you're expected to put on this hat way
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beyond just the finance function and be part
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of the general management team. Wow. And coming
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from FPNA, like you said, into the CFO role,
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what did you think was the most challenging part
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in that transition coming from that background
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versus maybe investment banking or accounting?
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Yeah, I think one of the challenges moving out
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of probably any of the functions And sipping
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that CFO role, that is probably the first time
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I really felt accountability, where you really
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felt like the buck stops with you. And this is
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actually deference to my accounting colleagues.
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Like there was a financial reporting error. Like
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it was my name. It was my reputation. It was
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my team's reputation that was tied into it. And
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I was a line of defense in that. And if I didn't
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do my role, like things could go quite badly,
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especially being responsible for a very material
8:24
part of the financial statements of the company.
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So despite being a couple of levels down in Shell,
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this was a major, major asset for the company.
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That was one of the things that in FP &A, you
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can kind of sometimes get away with, well, it's
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not my budget. It's my budget process. It's not
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my forecast. It's the business's forecast. It's
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a little bit more of a consulting role. If you
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kind of fall back into at the end of the day,
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you're not the one getting the call at three
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in the morning when things go badly. Whereas
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in the CFO role, like you're on that dial list
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if things go badly. And unfortunately, In our
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case, I happened to be on that general management
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leadership team when we had two deaths in our
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business related to our operations. And getting
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that call, it's one of these things I can think
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exactly where I was on the planet in that moment,
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who I was with, and I know what followed thereafter.
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And that's the first time where I really felt
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that deep sense of responsibility for all the
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lives, I would say, in the business in a way
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that I had in the military. But that was the
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first time in the corporate world where I experienced
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that as well. Wow. And then you became CFO, like
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you said, at a very tough times, right? There
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was a lot of uncertainty when you thought you
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have seen it all, something else showed up. And
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I feel like we, right in 2025, I feel like it's
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the same environment again. What would you say
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are some things that you learned that helped
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you get through that, whether it's how you work
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with your team or how you even manage yourself
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so you wouldn't burn out? Yeah. I like where
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you ended with that a bit because that was what
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popped in my head immediately is I think recognizing
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you're kind of managing your energy level and
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your capacity to deal with change and challenge
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and stress and all of that kind of stuff. And
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it's overly played cliche, but it is much more
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the marathon than the sprint in that regard.
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And so I think that's one of the things I would
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say I gained through that is is not overreacting
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to every maybe perceived or actual crisis because
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you actually have to preserve a bit of energy
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for the next one that's coming. down the pipeline
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as well. And it's the kind of management of them
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all as a portfolio over time that actually will
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lead to the risk reduction. And so if you, to
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some extent, put all your eggs into a single
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crisis, you're missing the other three things
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that are emerging risks that could even be bigger
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for you. And having simultaneous kind of crises,
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for lack of a better way of putting it, occur
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in that role definitely brought that forward
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to me. I think the other is, as an American living
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in Canada, who's lived in Europe. I have very
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complex views on vacation. Say a little bit tongue
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in cheek, but you know, I probably very stereotypical
10:53
American before I went off to Europe. And yeah,
10:56
I would struggle to use all my vacation. I went
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off to Europe and I saw culture that really embraced
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it. And what was fascinating is the year I took
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my most vacation ever. And I think it was like
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43 days. One of the years I was working in Europe
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was actually my single highest year of individual
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performance, by the way, that it was measured
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at the time, Michelle, and by a long shot. And
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i don't think they're unrelated like i do remember
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feeling much more present much more connected.
11:22
much more capable of leading a team through challenges.
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And as paradoxical as it is, I think these are
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the times where you actually have to take the
11:29
pause breaks, recharge and get right back into
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it. And you see this with firefighters and others
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who realize the downtime and management of it
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is as critical as the time you're actually fighting
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the fire and rotating crews through to be able
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to stay at the top of their game through this.
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I think there's a lot we could learn from people
11:46
who are really fighting real emergencies, but
11:48
how they manage things like rest and other things
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as part of the cycle of action. actually be able
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to manage emergencies. Wow. And so when you mentioned
11:55
about having different crisis at the same time
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and you're focusing on one can make you forget
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about the other one. How do you bring your team
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along? So it's not just you doing it. Yeah, I
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think that's a, that's a great point. And there's
12:09
a quote from the sixties that I'll, that'll probably
12:11
get a bit off, but essentially it was around
12:14
the special forces founding. It was around Kennedy's
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time and it was, you know, one of the, it was
12:18
called the soft hard truth. So the special operations
12:21
forces hard truths. And one of which is you can't
12:23
mass create special forces overnight. And if
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you're waiting until the start of the crisis
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to start doing it, you're two years or three
12:29
years behind. I think the exact same thing applies
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to how you think about developing leaders to
12:34
be able to deal with crises is bring your team
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along starts two years before the crisis. you've
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got to start building their capacity to be able
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to take on maybe one crisis so another leader
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can take on another and step up into it. Some
12:46
of it's the playbooks that you start to develop
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so that you know if x or y happens that you've
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got a playbook you can open up and you can follow
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and you know the steps you would do and best
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you've actually rehearsed them in some cases
12:58
as well. and know exactly how you would react
13:00
to it. And, you know, it's like everything. These
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are the, I think it's Stephen Covey's, you know,
13:04
quadrant two type of stuffs from the Eisenhower
13:06
matrix, which is these are the important but
13:08
not urgent things, but those are the things that
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if you invest in them, when the crisis happens
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and it does become urgent, you can do much better
13:15
in getting into it. One of the things I found
13:16
fascinating is if you go back to like the financial
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crisis of the late 2000s, the companies who actually
13:23
had the V -shaped recoveries from that were the
13:26
ones largely that had those playbooks going into
13:28
it. And so it wasn't to say they weren't exposed
13:30
to the crisis, but their ability to recover fast
13:33
from it was a better indicator of long -term
13:36
value than necessarily how deep that V was. And
13:40
you can see those companies that were bounced
13:42
back quickly because they had good action plans
13:45
and playbooks were far more successful and shareholder
13:47
return and other things like that in the years
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after. Yes. And now I want to hear all about
13:52
the playbooks asking for a friend who just started
13:55
being a CFO a year ago, getting into a CFO role.
13:59
What are some of the playbooks, your favorite
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ones, I would say, especially in times of crisis
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and how do you, again, bring your team along
14:05
with you? You know, some of it can just simply
14:08
start with basics and I'll go basic basic, which
14:10
is back to that unfortunate phone call that I
14:13
got in our business. It's literally the phone
14:15
tree in some cases, like is as weird as it sounds.
14:19
Like do you actually know how to get ahold of
14:21
folks when you don't have access to your laptop
14:23
and teams and something bad happens? Like do
14:25
you have a basic phone tree? who's going to call
14:28
whom. And I've been in hurricane evacuation situations
14:31
where we only had the ability to like stand on
14:33
one foot on a fence post in the corner of your
14:36
yard and hold it up to send a text message to
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communicate as a team and to be able to kind
14:41
of understand if everyone's okay. And sometimes
14:43
we probably don't even have access to like some
14:45
of those numbers and ways of getting a hold of
14:48
people. I think if you go a little more broadly,
14:50
I think there's obviously things like We're so
14:53
reliant on technology, what are truly your critical
14:57
technology systems and what are your recovery
14:59
plans for them? Do you have redundancy? Do you
15:02
have fallback data centers if you're a larger
15:04
organization? Stuff like that. I'd say the tech
15:07
stack, we're so reliant upon it. It's probably
15:10
pretty high on my list, I would say, of things
15:12
to think about. And then the other one I'm going
15:14
to say is much more about prioritization. Crises
15:17
can help you figure out pretty quickly what really
15:19
matters and what doesn't. And I think having
15:21
spent a little bit of time to kind of create,
15:24
even in some cases, a false crisis to tease that
15:26
out a bit and really figure out what reporting
15:29
really matters, how crucial really is this function
15:32
or process, and kind of knowing that that helps
15:35
you really focus the mind when you get into a
15:37
crisis, clear the deck for the things that truly
15:40
matter. And then on the back side of it, don't
15:43
waste a good crisis, as one of my bosses used
15:45
to say. Hello, Azza, who may be out there. You
15:48
don't waste a good crisis is please apply those
15:51
learnings after you've been through it. If you
15:53
learned that it wasn't that essential, maybe
15:55
that gives you insight into stuff you're doing
15:56
that's over processing or overproduction. Nice.
15:59
I love it. And then I'm curious now, this is
16:02
good when you were in a role and then the crisis
16:04
find you. What if you just get in and pew, there
16:08
is a crisis. Like how are you able to adapt?
16:11
Or are you able to have that game plan to know,
16:15
okay, this is what I need my FP &A team to do,
16:18
my accounting team to do, et cetera. How do you
16:20
work across your different stakeholders? Yeah.
16:23
And so I think it depends how early in your tenure
16:25
are, but if it's quite early, I think this is
16:27
where you have to build trust by listening. Your
16:29
team is going to know more than you are in this
16:31
case. Now, after listening, you may need to help
16:34
prioritize and you may need to help focus and
16:36
you may need to make some decisions, but I'd
16:38
probably start with listening in that case. I
16:40
think the other is communicating. And these are
16:43
such basics that apply kind of in all situations,
16:46
but ever more important in a crisis, if you will.
16:49
It'll be clear if you're prioritizing management
16:52
of a crisis and it's consuming a lot of your
16:54
time and you're not getting the time to focus
16:56
on the other things, just be clear with your
16:58
team about this is what I'm spending my energy
17:00
on and why it's important. And most people understand.
17:03
And so I think this is where you overemphasize
17:05
communication, I think, as well, and being really
17:07
clear around your motives, what you're spending
17:09
your time on, and why it's important. And then
17:11
I think the third one's role modeling, which
17:12
is to say, like, is it really a crisis? And this
17:15
is where I come back to my time in the military
17:18
versus maybe corporate. There are things that
17:20
can result in loss of life in the corporate world.
17:23
I unfortunately talked about that a bit. And
17:25
there's much more of it in a military context.
17:28
And the things that we call crises in the grand
17:31
scheme of humanity maybe aren't as much of a
17:33
crisis. And I think saving your emotional energy
17:36
for a true crisis and being able to take the
17:40
emotion down a notch for the things that are
17:42
less of one and being really discerning around,
17:45
you know, kind of the degrees of which it is
17:48
a crisis. And it's almost like those physical
17:50
pain charts in the doctor's office. Like, is
17:52
it really a ten or is it actually a six? and
17:55
you should react differently emotionally to those
17:58
and get the organization to expend emotional
18:00
energy differently depending upon where you're
18:02
at on that pain chart. I love it. I feel like
18:04
at the doctor's office, I'm always at an eight
18:06
or nine. Which if you're discerning about going
18:10
like you probably are, right? So it's and that's
18:13
something you got to tease out with the doctor
18:14
a little bit is if you're not there all the time
18:16
and you only go when you really need it, like
18:18
you may only be going for the eights and nines.
18:20
Yes. Yes. Oh, wow. I love that that analogy and
18:24
thanks you so much for sharing that. Now you
18:26
are a strong voice in the FDNA space, especially
18:28
with your role with the AFP. What do you think
18:31
are some some things that that organizations
18:33
or maybe CFOs miss about the role of FP &A or
18:37
what good FP &A should look like? I think a couple
18:40
of things, and this has evolved over time. When
18:43
I got involved in this community the most deeply,
18:46
now I've been in FP &A roles since 2007, but
18:50
the AFP and FP &A community I got involved with
18:53
probably at the earliest, about 2014, 2015, Even
18:56
at that time, the term FP &A was not as widely
19:00
used or understood. Even the organization I was
19:03
in at the time at Shell, we didn't use that term
19:05
to describe what it is that we did. So I think
19:07
one thing they get wrong is sometimes even what
19:10
they call it. And this is where language matters
19:12
a lot. And we're getting to a point where there
19:15
is a defined body of knowledge of what FP &A
19:17
is. There is a high quality certification in
19:20
the space as well. We need to start using the
19:22
right words. when we describe the function, because
19:25
then it gives a nice anchor point for people
19:27
who are trying to learn about it and talk about
19:29
it, a common body of knowledge and language to
19:31
be able to describe what it is they do, figure
19:35
out how to make it better, use maturity curves
19:37
and all those kinds of things. So I think that's
19:38
the first thing that organizations get wrong.
19:40
I think the second, and this is with all the
19:42
love by accounting team members and accounting
19:45
colleagues and friends. which are absolutely
19:48
critical for the success of an organization.
19:50
But conflating accounting and FP &A is one of
19:53
the things that a lot of organizations get totally
19:55
wrong. And I think when you see an organization
19:57
who decides to put FP &A under the control of
20:00
ship function, it's not designed for success
20:02
in both cases because the accounting function
20:04
broadly needs to be one about certainty. And
20:07
I would describe it as analysis, really understanding
20:10
what has happened or maybe is happening in the
20:13
moment. and being factually as strictly correct
20:16
as they can, broadly speaking. The FP &A world
20:18
is a world of uncertainty. And actually, if you're
20:21
so focused on the precision in the decimal place,
20:24
you may totally lose the plot of the broad things
20:26
that could happen to you and miss the fact that
20:29
actually there's this other emerging risk, which
20:31
isn't necessarily showing up in the details yet,
20:33
but maybe the most important thing to be discussing
20:35
with your business because it could materialize
20:37
and wipe you out. And I think that's another
20:40
thing they get wrong is maybe where it fits in
20:42
the organization. And then the third then is
20:45
then the composition of talent. So if you put
20:48
it in the wrong place, you start to resource
20:50
it with the wrong kinds of folks who don't have
20:52
the right skill set or the right mindset to be
20:54
successful in the roles. And some of this, I'll
20:57
go as far as saying, should FP &A entirely be
21:00
in finance? I think that's a question some mature
21:03
organizations wrestle with. I kind of have this
21:05
theory that business partnering is a broad category
21:08
of which FP &A is but one. part of business partnering
21:11
for a general manager has more in common with
21:14
the business partners of HR, the business, good
21:16
business partners of IT, maybe even of legal
21:19
and procurement or supply chain than it does
21:21
necessarily with the other parts of finance.
21:24
Because what you're really doing is supporting
21:25
decision making and trying to generate an outlook
21:28
of where you think the business is going and
21:30
informed strategy and pick the right tactics
21:33
to deliver that strategy. And you just happen
21:35
to be doing it from a finance perspective. But
21:38
so is a great HR business partner and others.
21:41
And so you should see affinity, I think, with
21:43
these other business partners around the general
21:45
management table as part of a team that needs
21:47
to come to a synthesized view of how to best
21:50
support and drive the business. I think the best
21:52
service you can do to a general manager is actually
21:55
work with them. then horizontally with your colleagues
21:58
across these functions arrive at a synthesized
22:01
view that factors in each of these different
22:02
functional perspectives. That presents a general
22:05
management recommendation to the general manager
22:07
of where to go forward. So we either called FP
22:10
&A wrong or we position in the wrong place. But
22:13
what about how we empower FP &A? Because I feel
22:17
like sometimes we feel like throwing a new FP
22:20
&A software at the FP &A team will make the FP
22:23
&A team go, whoa. What do you think about technology,
22:27
business partnering? How do they come together?
22:29
I'm a bit biased because having led a digital
22:32
transformation effort for a number of years at
22:35
Shell around FP &A, I definitely have strong
22:37
views on this. I think there are limits. And
22:39
in fact, I wrote a short article on this on the
22:42
back of an AFP conference some years ago. Like
22:44
I think, you know, and you maybe take a saw.
22:47
or an axe or chainsaw analogy was the one that
22:50
I used back then, which is, I think, to an extent,
22:53
you could argue Excel, and Excel has gotten better
22:56
and better over time. It's still, I think, a
22:58
critical tool in the tech stack for FP &A. But
23:01
sometimes it's only bringing a saw or maybe even
23:05
an axe to a thing that needs a chainsaw. And
23:07
particularly when it comes to global collaboration
23:09
and really being able to kind of have multiple
23:13
players being able to update variables in your
23:16
models from a really informed perspective, Excel
23:19
is pretty tough to use exclusively in a very
23:22
large global organization to be able to really
23:25
get all the cross -functional inputs in and manage
23:27
them well in time. I think there's other, you
23:30
know, place where we have, you know, the ability
23:31
that I think of as almost like islands and bridges,
23:34
like you have islands of work, but the magic
23:36
isn't connecting them by bridges so that you
23:38
can move back and forth between them. And those
23:40
islands are everything from the finance perspective
23:42
to the operations perspective, to the HR perspective.
23:46
This is kind of what we were talking about before.
23:47
And I think technology has a role to play in
23:49
connecting these functions. Because while finance
23:52
may be very mature in its use of, for example,
23:55
Excel or maybe finance specific software, when
23:58
you start to get the insights of operations and
24:01
others, this may or may not be where those insights
24:03
are residing. And so you have to have technology
24:05
that can create bridges into where those deep
24:07
insights about business performance are happening.
24:10
Nice, nice. And I like the analogy of the island
24:13
and the bridges, especially because I saw somewhere
24:15
you worked with over the Caribbean's and things
24:17
like that was like, would you hire me then? I
24:19
don't know. But anyway, thinking again about
24:22
technology and when you said you led to transformation,
24:25
I read that most digital transformation failed
24:28
because we go in with one mindset and we end
24:31
up probably on the wrong island. What would you
24:34
say are some of the things that may make a digital
24:37
transformation more successful than others? Like
24:39
what are things that sometimes people miss? Yeah,
24:42
I think a couple of places where I've seen that
24:45
lead to success. So I think I've gone off to
24:47
a number of finance conferences and spoken and
24:50
a lot of the sessions as a listener are often
24:53
finance talking about, hey, I went off into the
24:55
corner and I did this technology project and
24:57
it was I had to make it successful so then I
24:59
could finally bring IT on board. and they had
25:02
no choice but to go along with my change because
25:04
they found that IT had been a really resistant
25:06
partner and they avoided them and then made it
25:09
a fait complete that they had to go along in
25:11
the end versus partnering throughout. I think
25:13
where it's really successful is that you really
25:15
do form a partnership with your IT colleague
25:18
from day one. I had a colleague who used to talk
25:21
about it's a two in a box. So at each kind of
25:23
layer of the project, you've got a business or
25:25
finance person and you've got an IT or technology
25:28
person who's in the box with you. Because the
25:30
IT function does bring a lot of capabilities
25:33
to the table. I think particularly architecture
25:35
is one that I don't think the finance function
25:37
really fully understands. And I have the office
25:40
of the CIO in my role now too, so I'm speaking
25:42
on behalf of my IT brother in here as well. The
25:45
architecture is something that can lead to really
25:47
good success if you have a playbook for where
25:50
your roadmap is a better way of putting it of
25:52
where you ultimately want to go and how these
25:54
things are going to connect with one another.
25:56
We wouldn't want a construction company out building
25:58
something that hasn't had an architect build
26:00
a blueprint for it of how it's all going to go
26:02
together and have a plan for it. And yet we go
26:05
about digital transformation without that blueprint.
26:07
So I think that's one. I think the second is
26:09
around IT security and cybersecurity in particular.
26:14
There's much deeper expertise in the office of
26:16
the CISO in an IT function and partnering with
26:19
them and thinking about it. But flipping that
26:21
around to also say part of that can be de -risking
26:23
projects. So I was on a project where we were
26:26
the first to move our most confidential information
26:28
into the public cloud. And that took partnership
26:30
with the IT organization to be able to figure
26:32
out, OK, what are the risks, but also where is
26:35
the space that still inside of the red lines
26:38
that we don't want to cross where we can push
26:40
the boundaries of what we're trying to do and
26:42
actually unlock this for others. And that could
26:45
only be possible in partnership with the IT function.
26:47
And then I think the last thing I would say is
26:50
actually there's two other points. So I think
26:51
one is when you pick system implementers or partners
26:54
to work with in the consulting space, like all
26:57
humans, there's A players, B players, C players,
26:59
so on and so forth. Make sure you're getting
27:01
the A team when you're partnering with those
27:03
firms because they can add a lot of value. Don't
27:05
let that value be accruing to them because they
27:07
got the C players working for you and learning
27:09
your function or learning your business on your
27:11
dime. Find the A players that are going to help
27:13
you push into the things and challenge you to
27:15
get the best value. So you can get value out
27:17
of system implementers, but you just got to be
27:19
wise about the team that comes along. And the
27:21
last one then is around the ecosystem. Recognize
27:24
that all technology sits within an ecosystem
27:26
of people, of systems, of processes, of functions.
27:30
And so the more that those are working in concert
27:33
for the success of your project, the more likely
27:35
you're going to be successful. If you could have
27:38
the best project in an ecosystem that has an
27:40
antibody response to your project and eventually
27:42
it will undermine it. Ouch, ouch. If we were
27:46
to reverse engineer into that, would you say
27:48
you will start with the ecosystem first and then
27:51
pick the right partners? Like you said, I .T.
27:54
and then cyber security. How would you reverse
27:56
engineering? Because I think sometimes we in
27:58
a rush. maybe to prove that we're able to achieve
28:00
this in the first 90 days or 100 days? Like,
28:03
how long should it about take to do that, you
28:07
know, get that blueprint really in mind before
28:09
you just say, hey, let's go live? I'll answer
28:12
maybe a slightly nuanced way, which would be
28:15
I think of as a little bit change management
28:17
is part of the reason why you're managing the
28:19
ecosystem. And you can either do a lot of work
28:22
up front in a short period of time on change
28:24
management, or you can do that work spread out
28:25
over 10 years after your project because you
28:27
didn't get it right. And it's always kind of
28:29
undermining the value of what you got. So I think
28:31
part of it is spend the energy upfront to think
28:34
about the call of the ecosystem, the stakeholder
28:36
map, kind of the data and systems and process
28:39
context of which the change you're trying to
28:41
make. And then as you're doing things like building
28:43
the team, to your point, think about the right
28:46
representatives from across that ecosystem to
28:48
be involved. And then as you're engaging. The
28:51
decision makers around this, think about how
28:53
do you give them a scorecard for the project
28:55
that they can see themselves back in. So one
28:57
of the things that unlocked that project was
29:00
recognizing that there were three stakeholder
29:01
groups that needed to be satisfied at the highest
29:04
level and that had some form of decision making
29:06
on the project. One was my finance line and it's
29:08
certain objectives that they wanted to see back.
29:10
The second was the IT line, which had certain
29:13
objectives they wanted to see back. And the third
29:15
was ultimately the payer, which was the business
29:17
out of which this IT budget came from. We had
29:20
business objectives they wanted to see achieved.
29:21
And so one of the things that we did there was
29:24
build a kind of balanced scorecard for those
29:25
three stakeholders and continually showed that
29:28
each of them were going to get their thing out
29:29
of the project. And that ultimately getting at
29:32
least two or three of those over the line in
29:34
the beginning was crucial to getting momentum
29:36
on the project, which ultimately brought the
29:38
third stakeholder along as well. I really like
29:40
your approach to having systems to get you going
29:44
and a clear site. And then there is crisis, my
29:48
favorite topic for you. So you are in the middle
29:51
of your digital transformation. You did all you
29:53
could. You talked to the right stakeholders.
29:56
You identified the 18 players you wanted to have,
29:58
but then crisis hit. How do you shift your energy?
30:01
How do you shift your team so that you can still
30:04
reach what you want with digital transformation?
30:05
digital transformation, but also have to navigate
30:09
whatever is at hand. Part of my thinking on this,
30:12
which I've tried to put into action over time,
30:14
don't always get right, is I think, you know,
30:17
there's only so much capacity in an organization
30:19
for people to strap every initiative on as a
30:21
side of their desk thing. And so I think the
30:23
more you can compartmentalize an organization
30:26
and allow a subset to focus on medium to long
30:30
term objectives that will that kind of regardless
30:33
of the crisis of the day will keep making progress
30:36
toward those objectives. That can be a way to
30:38
help maintain momentum in a world where you have
30:40
to divert most of us side of the desk people
30:43
attention to the crisis at hand. So that means
30:46
if it's five or 10 percent of your organization
30:48
setting them aside to work and think about the
30:51
future. That can be a way to do it. Interestingly,
30:53
the Army has a way of thinking about this, too,
30:56
which is in what's called the S3 shop, but basically
30:59
the operations function, for lack of a better
31:01
way of putting it, also a bit strategy and planning.
31:04
They've divided into S3 ops and S3 plans. And
31:07
so the plan side is thinking about strategy and
31:10
planning and longer term. The operations side
31:12
is thinking about the urgent and the now, the
31:14
next mission ahead, to an extent. in a way, they
31:17
even within that same department have divided
31:20
this with low levels of leadership between recognizing
31:23
there needs to be a medium to long -term focus
31:25
in an organization and a short -term focus in
31:27
the organization that get divided attention.
31:30
Wow. I love it. And it also means that you have
31:32
to negotiate for those resources to stay focused
31:35
on the future. What would be your playbook to
31:38
advocate for this type of resources? Because
31:40
I feel like sometimes the business can see finance
31:42
as a back office function. Why do you even need
31:45
this? Why are you even spending this? So how
31:48
do you negotiate or advocate for this type of
31:50
resources for your team? Yeah, and I think this
31:53
is where it very much varies depending upon what
31:56
level in the organization you're at, how big
31:58
your organization is, perhaps a bit what industry
32:01
or the profitability context of the organization
32:05
that you're in. And that even extends to not
32:07
-for -profit where how stressed your income statement
32:10
and balance sheet are or cash flow can impact
32:12
how you might advocate or whether you should
32:14
advocate. With that context in mind, when I was,
32:17
you know, earlier in my career, you have to cut
32:20
through the noise would be one, the one thing
32:22
I would say. And so I ran up against a brick
32:24
wall a bit on this advocacy for the digital transformation.
32:28
And it took, you know, about after about six
32:30
months of kind of running up against the wall,
32:32
I had to take a tact where I literally created
32:34
a cartoon. I'm not kidding. A cartoon that showed
32:37
kind of the day in the life of my everyday FP
32:40
&A analyst experience and how stressed out they
32:42
were by all the requests and the data. the hidden
32:45
work that happened when an executive asked for
32:47
something. And it was the cartoon at the end
32:50
of the day that kind of cut through the noise
32:51
and got attention. It wasn't the PowerPoint logic.
32:55
It wasn't all the presentations. It was something
32:58
creative that it took to do it. And I've heard
33:00
several examples over the course of my career
33:02
of others who've had to literally bring life
33:05
-sized posters of the customer and the customer
33:08
archetypes into the office to make a point that
33:11
we've got to be thinking about the customer,
33:12
et cetera. creativity I think is one of the ways
33:15
to cut through it. I think the second I would
33:18
just say is courage, you know, and within ethical
33:21
boundaries, sometimes, you know, doing and then
33:24
asking forgiveness is the right thing to do here.
33:27
And, you know, especially if you're in a leadership
33:29
role, part of leadership is taking risk and part
33:32
of advancing your organization is taking risks.
33:35
You're not always going to have all the permissions
33:37
you need ahead of time, nor the time to get them
33:40
to do it. And one of my bosses really helped
33:42
me understand this, too, which is sometimes It's
33:45
not just yes and no. There's actually not no,
33:48
which is in the middle. And this is a really
33:51
important space to get comfortable with, which
33:53
is sometimes you just have to get the decision
33:55
maker to not say no. You may not get a yes from
33:58
them, but as long as they haven't told you no,
34:01
then maybe you're lying to give you a bit of
34:03
top cover to take that risk and push it forward.
34:05
And that's one of the things that we did to get
34:07
that third stakeholder on board was that we got
34:10
that person to a not no. And then my boss was
34:13
like, look, you got them to not know. Good job.
34:15
Now I'll give you top cover. Go take the risk,
34:17
push this forward and we'll get them to yes later
34:19
on. And so you can't wait around for the yes
34:21
sometimes as well. And I think the third one
34:23
is resource allocation and choices, like good
34:26
capital resource allocation isn't an unlimited
34:29
capital environment. You sometimes have to say
34:31
no to some things to say yes to better things.
34:34
And I've made choices where I've decided not
34:37
to replace, for example, an FP &A analyst with
34:39
an FP &A analyst. I actually replace them with
34:41
a continuous improvement expert. Because we had
34:44
so many process issues that were undermining
34:46
the rest of the analysts that I chose to invest
34:48
in bringing in a master black belt, a Lean Six
34:51
Sigma master black belt into the team and not
34:53
fill an FP &A analyst role so that I could create
34:55
more capacity for the rest of the FP &A team.
34:58
And then eventually they were replaced by an
35:00
FP &A person down the line. And so I think sometimes
35:03
it's choices we make with our resource allocation.
35:06
People's one of those. And you may have to take
35:08
some risk on reducing one part of your organization
35:11
to feed another part. Wow. And I love what you
35:13
just said about bringing somebody that didn't
35:16
have the FPNA background, because earlier you
35:18
talked about what's the right composition of
35:21
talent within an FPNA team. If you had a team
35:24
of 10 or a hundred and you had percentages, let's
35:28
say, what would you say would be that composition
35:30
for you? So I think, you know, and I'll start
35:33
with who are the players on the pitch, you know,
35:35
if you will. Now I'll use that analogy, players
35:37
on a pitch. So I think about this a little bit
35:39
in a, if it was a soccer team or a football team
35:42
for those outside of the U S or North America,
35:46
soccer, soccer, then you have offense, you have
35:49
defense, you have coaches, you have statisticians,
35:52
you have referees. And to some extent, and maybe
35:55
it's more broad for finance, but even FP and
35:57
a there are offensive defensive roles, coach
36:00
roles, statistician roles, and referee roles
36:03
that all may be necessary. So referee in this
36:06
case, maybe just starting with that one, you
36:08
know, this would be the one who figures out your
36:11
planning process, the rules of the game, how
36:14
we're going to submit budgets, how we're going
36:15
to submit forecasts, what types of assumptions
36:18
we're going to take, essentially the rule book
36:19
by which you're going to plan and forecast and
36:22
establish kind of a set of boundaries by which
36:24
the organization is going to play the game. The
36:26
statistician piece, this is probably a very typical
36:29
role that we've got, you know, counting the maths,
36:31
adding things up. making sure that there's a
36:33
fair representation of performance and again
36:36
of the outlook of the business. So the real art
36:38
that is actually in these offense defense and
36:41
coach roles which is you know I think a team
36:43
needs to have some folks maybe they're like management
36:45
consultant backgrounds who are there to really
36:48
advise and counsel your business leaders that
36:50
you're there with about You could do this. You
36:53
could set your benchmark, your budget, your forecast
36:58
at this level. But here's some of the consequences
37:00
of doing that. And have you thought about the
37:01
unintended consequences to culture or to what
37:05
behavior you're trying to drive and what the
37:07
knock -on consequences of that might be? You
37:09
could spend this money. But have you thought
37:11
about the fact that if you commit to this capital
37:14
project now, the better one in six months, you're
37:16
not going to have the financial capacity to go
37:18
after? On the defense side, I think this is a
37:21
pretty normal role for finance, like part of
37:23
our role is risk management, making sure goals
37:25
don't get scored against us. Even in an FP &A
37:27
team, people who are focused on the more defensive
37:29
side, figuring out what their risks are and how
37:32
they could undermine this is some of the scenario
37:33
planning, the most dangerous scenarios that could
37:36
happen and stress testing kind of your portfolio.
37:40
The offense one is the one I found the most controversy
37:42
on, which is I've had folks in the finance function
37:44
tell me outright, the role of finance is not
37:46
to get on the pitch and score goals. I vehemently
37:49
disagree. Somebody told me a long time ago, at
37:52
the end of the day, finance is kind of the internal
37:54
representative of the shareholder. There are
37:56
going to be times where if that ball is out there
37:59
ready to be scored and no one is stepping up
38:01
to do it, that you might need to run up to that
38:03
ball and kick it in. And so sometimes that's
38:06
leading a cost initiative. as an example, and
38:09
actually delivering that bottom line value to
38:11
the business. Sometimes it's leaning in on a
38:13
commercial transaction to help get it over the
38:16
line, etc. It isn't the primary role necessarily
38:19
all the time, but I do think there needs to be
38:21
some capacity in an FP &A team to be able to
38:24
get on the pitch and score some goals, ultimately,
38:26
in the interest of your stakeholders. I love
38:29
it. Oh, my son is in soccer and I'm originally
38:32
from Ivory Coast. So soccer is big overseas.
38:35
I grew up with soccer. I was a goalie. Like nobody
38:37
would trust me to run anywhere else. But you
38:39
need the goalie. I hired our women's soccer team.
38:44
coach for the goalies as part of my team here
38:46
and, uh, in my broader finance organization.
38:49
So he has a day job that isn't soccer coach,
38:51
but does bring an interesting perspective to
38:53
the table. So, yes, yes, absolutely. Well, thank
38:56
you so much for being on the show. I have one
38:58
last question for you. What is your favorite
39:00
thing to do outside of work? I think family first
39:03
and foremost no no doubt about it it's you know
39:05
i think early on in my career i realize like
39:08
if i put all this energy into developing other
39:10
leaders you know in the context of business or
39:13
army and i feel the kind of put that same energy
39:15
into my children or even my partner i don't think
39:18
i fully live my purpose on the on the planet
39:21
so families first and foremost unfortunately
39:23
i'm an empty nester now so they're both off at
39:25
university and so don't get to spend nearly as
39:27
much time with them beyond that. partner and
39:29
I, both big readers, love podcasts too. So I've
39:33
been spending a lot of time listening to yours
39:35
as well and really trying to kind of continually
39:37
kind of advance my knowledge, travel, love travel
39:40
too. And unfortunately I've had a hobby of moving
39:43
too much. And so usually that free time tends
39:45
to involve a lot of setting up of houses. But
39:47
if we've made a strong commitment that we're
39:49
not moving for a very long time and fortunately
39:50
love where we're at right now. Oh, good. Good
39:53
for you. Well, thank you so much again for being
39:55
on the show. This was super helpful. And that's
39:59
it for today's episode of The Diary of a CFO.
40:02
Thank you so much for tuning in. If you enjoyed
40:04
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40:11
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40:29
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40:36
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40:39
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