Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.83 | The “Magic” of EMDR & How it’s Changing Lives w/ Caili Danieu, Life Coach & Public Speaker

Transcript

Ep.83 | The “Magic” of EMDR & How it’s Changing Lives w/ Caili Danieu, Life Coach & Public Speaker · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Curiously Guided Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: We're your hosts, Mariah and Shay.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Two online business strategists passionate about rewriting the rules to success within both life and business.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: This podcast started because we both felt frustrated by the lack of deep, meaningful, and transparent conversations around what it takes to actually run a business that we both feel good about.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: So we decided to create that for ourselves.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: We want our solo episodes and guest interviews to be examples of how you two can chase your dreams and go down your own rabbit holes, ultimately leading to a more sustainable and fulfilling life.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: We believe that curiosity is our superpower.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: And trusting the nudge is a muscle that's meant to be strengthened.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: Especially if we want to create a lifestyle that feels good from the inside out.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: So are you ready to open your mind and let curiosity guide the way?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Let's take this journey together.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: We're so glad you're here.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Now let's dive in.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: What's up, y'all?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so this conversation is so fucking great.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that I could probably say that about like all of our guests, but Kaylee is a special friend of mine and one of probably one of the only people that we've had on the show that like I'm a friend of in real life.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like me and Kaylee like hang out and get dinner together.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: So like it's cool where the intersection of like my personal life can intersect with business and like this podcast.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: And Kaylee her story is so inspiring and just like it's amazing.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say that like if you want to hear about Kaylee's story, we don't actually go into it in this episode.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: We will link in the show notes a previous episode that we did with her actually in season one of the podcast, episode 19.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's where she really dives into the story.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: If you're just like want a little bit more background of like how Kaylee got here and like got really interested in EMDR and all of that fun stuff.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we will link to that in the show notes.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I had to have her on this episode.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's crazy because when I was talking to her before this, she actually hasn't done a podcast interview talking about EMDR yet.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that blew my mind because I was like, dude, you explain it so fucking well.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like after this episode, I was feeling like lit up.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like she explained it in a way that's like really grounding and inspiring and like really piques your curiosity, but also dives into the power and the potency of it without completely overwhelming you.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she uses a metaphor to describe what's going on in your brain during the EMDR process that has really, really stuck with me.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: And the the language that Kaylee brings into everything is always very powerful.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so um this is a topic that I really care a lot about when Mariah, when excuse me, when Mariah and I were planning this season, one thing I have mentioned a few times over the seasons is that I I have found that I can get frustrated in normal talk therapy.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: I do think for certain people in certain seasons of life, therapy is really powerful, talk therapy can be really awesome.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I got to a point at least where I kind of felt like I'm a good talker, you know, I can talk somebody in circles.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted something that was like a little bit deeper.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I've been doing a bit more research about the subconscious mind and how much that is really driving the show in our lives more than we realize.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm really interested in this idea of subconscious reprogramming and how can we really affect the way that our operating system works on like a very deep level.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and EMDR is a very cool way.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: If you're a person like me who's feeling tired with all the talking and you'd like to try some other kinds of therapies that work in other ways, this is a really like scientifically proven process.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: It was developed by Kaylee, I'll get into it, but um people working with soldiers with trauma, like there's just a lot of science and groundedness behind this technique.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_03: And um, it encouraged me as a human to explore it more.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope it'll do the same for you guys.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: So, with that, um, let me tell you a little bit about Kaylee.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: She's a life coach, a speaker, and a death doula, which is something we talk about in that first episode.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: So go check that out.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Using a unique blend of expertise in clinical psychology, spiritual philosophy, and end-of-life care, Kaylee empowers individuals to embrace life's transition with grace and courage.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: Her insights into living authentically and navigating the complexities of mortality challenge us to redefine our relationship with both life and death.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I feel like that was a poem.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: That was great.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, let's dive in.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, y'all.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: We are super excited for this episode.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we had Kaylee on our podcast actually back in season one, and I double checked before this episode.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was season one, episode 19, where we were talking about integrated, integrating the dark and shadowy parts of yourself.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that's when she was kind of first jumping out and kind of starting her own business.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like a lot has changed since then.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: But and I I think that we're gonna get into that.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: But one place in particular that's changed is like Kaylee, your obsession with EMDR, which I am too.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: But before we get into the weeds of just like why we love it so much and all of that, can you just break down like what is it and like how does it work?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So EMDR is uh an acronym that stands for eye movement desensitization and reprocessing therapy.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I'm never gonna say that again.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm only gonna refer to it as EMDR for obvious reasons.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So EMDR um was discovered as an accident by this brilliant woman, Francine Shapiro, I think in the late 80s, early 90s, maybe.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I have to imagine she had some background in sleep.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because what EMDR does is basically it leverages our brain's inborn capacity to heal self that we access during REM sleep.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: So what EMDR does, at least in its traditional sense, there's other kind of like inroads, if for whatever reason clients can't use rapid eye movement to access um bilateral stimulation.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: What EMDR does is it leverages that kind of state of consciousness that is open during REM sleep, where our brains clean themselves, right?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: So we all know our dreams are insane.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's because our brain is making sense of our waking life during REM sleep.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: So what EMDR does is it accesses that same point of consciousness, but because our eyes are open and we're also adults that are some in EMDR, it's called dual focus.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: We access dual focus.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the part of us that is on the Zoom call or in the office with our therapist knows that we're an adult safe in the room with our therapist, using the eye movements while pointedly looking at one of the most awful things that ever happened to us, right?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like targeting trauma specifically, has this capacity because we have that like foot in safety and our adult selves, we can have pointed uh, we're able to metabolize with like really high specificity things that like just kind of on autopilot in our dreams, we're not processing effectively because all trauma is, is is a memory that is stored maladaptively.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: The most the hallmark of a traumatic memory and the way that it differentiates from a normal memory is that trauma feels like it's happening right now.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: A memory just feels like a memory, right?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know, your first grade birthday party feels like it happened a long time ago.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas if you were to recount or tell the story of, I don't know, getting in a car accident or seeing somebody pass away, like your body starts to activate as if it were happening now.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that is an indicator that it is a trauma.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so unfortunately, and this is why people, um survivors of PTSD, complex PTSD, have recurring nightmares.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's because the memory is not properly being metabolized.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: So EMDR leverages that same like consciousness space while very specifically targeting memories and again in the safe container of, you know, somebody who knows what they're doing or an individual who knows what they're doing with themselves can effectively, it's it's a garbage disposal for trauma.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the really cool thing is, you know, I really what I love about Joe Dispenza is he he really poignantly says that you I forget his exact wording, but basically he says something to the effect of like it doesn't negate the the information.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: The information and the memory is still there, but the distress is gone, so all you take away is the wisdom.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what EMDR allows you to do.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I I was sharing with you guys before we hit record that I'm kind of new to all this, but EMDR is one of those things that um, and I'm sure probably for a lot of our listeners has been popping up in your life.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: If you're like me, I have um an aunt that worked through some she's just changed as a human.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've seen her before and after, and it was all EMDR, and she's a bit older, so it was very shocking.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, just like the changes that we've seen in her.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: I actually Mariah was probably the first person that mentioned EMDR to me and how it had helped her several years ago just kind of level up in life.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I have a few friends that are therapists and considering getting trainings in it.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: So it seems kind of like uh it's it's like a trending in the right direction.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's getting more and more popular.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: Can you tell us a bit about like what types of issues can you work through?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm I'm curious about it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: I want to start, but I'm like, where do I even start?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: It feels like really big.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, that's actually a really interesting point that you make that it seems more trending, it's growing more.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's funny because it's been around for like basically as long as I've been alive, but and the research has kind of always been there.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: The the empirical support has always been there.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: But what I think is happening now that's really catalyzing the growth is that we understand trauma much differently.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: We understand that like parental neglect is trauma.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: We understand that like trauma is not what happens to us, it happens in the body.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so if we are having a maladaptive response in really any capacity, whether that's addiction, OCD, eating disorder, or you know, suicidality, like there's fucking trauma there.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that, and given its really robust capacity to treat trauma, I think that that's why it's really gaining so much momentum.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you you're hearing about it all the time because one, it works and it works, it shouldn't.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, my clients are amazed all the time.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, you know, we're only processing for maybe like 25 minutes in session, and they come in heed up, like in a full fight or flight response.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And by the end, they're feeling completely at peace.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it shouldn't work because you know, I do psychedelic work as well.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: And in comparison to psychedelic work, EMDR, the experience is relatively shallow.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, like you're literally your eyes are open and you're just moving them back and forth, and you're kind of just like seeing what could feel like like daydreaming almost to like the unexperienced participant, right?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like it takes a little bit, but not much, which is fun.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: It takes a little bit of like goading clients into being like, no, I mean it.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Just tell me exactly what you're seeing, experiencing, feeling during the set because people think like it's random and it's not.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the way the unconscious mind works, is that it contains all of it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's why I love this work so much.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And it really parallels my work with plant medicine and that basically everything I do is because my my work is really, I specialize in the unconscious, right?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we have no idea how we have things tied up together in our unconscious mind, and that's why it's so fun to see people, even just like a week after for a following session, after we've had like a big clearing, because the ripples are so vast.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: My my favorite example of this is after reprocessing one of the most profound traumas of my life, I got my taste back.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: I had no, like, like when people get COVID and like lost their taste and like I didn't know that I didn't taste things as much as like was available, right?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've definitely gotten sick and like gotten my taste back.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't know that globally my taste was dampened until this.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: But duh, I mean, it makes sense.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: The trauma occurred when I was three years old.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, one, like what we know about neurodevelopment is like you're you're still basically in utero as far as like brain development is considered for like your first two years of life, you know, like you're there's actually, I'm reading this book called Mother Hunger, which is really great.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they talk about how like current attachment scientists and biologists are are starting to reformulate like their idea of like infancy and like prenatal development that basically we should be considering infants up to two years old as uh like still in utero.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like they need to be in contact with their mother.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going on a bit of a tangent here, but it's important.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So take it.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but basically, when you have traumas that occur super, super early, of course it's going to radically rewire your sensory experience.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's what all trauma does at any point in development.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's just it's so cool and interesting the way that people experience the healing because the ripples are so vast.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And what I say all the time about healing is like we don't realize what we're carrying until we put it down.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then we realize like it's it's interesting because there's like this sense of innateness that comes with like what people are experiencing in their healing.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like um, Jamila Jamil uh was interviewed on a podcast and she talked about how she had this like unremarkable um experience with EMDR in session and then went home and closed the door, locked, locked the door behind her, turned off the lights and went to bed.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And in the morning, she realized holy shit, that's the first time in 10 years that I didn't check that the door was locked 10 times, that I didn't check my closet, that I didn't check under my bed, and that I slept soundly.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and and I think like that really illustrates what myself and a lot of my clients experience is that like the the results are like in some ways unremarkable when you would write them down.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: But the felt experience is holy shit, I have been in prison and I didn't even realize it.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: I could listen to you talk about this, I swear to God, for like five hours.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like the way that you explain it, your passion behind it, it it hits.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say that, like, yeah, I have known about EMDR for uh seven, seven years ago, seven, seven years now.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's funny.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna explain my story a little bit of how I came to find it because it wasn't planned.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was it was not a thing that I was like searching on Google, like EMDR therapist or anything like that.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: It was essentially I was dating at the time, and I was on a date with this guy, and we were sitting across from each other and we were drinking coffee and he was talking to me, and I'm looking at him, and he goes, Mariah, why do you keep looking at my nose?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, What are you saying?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, You're not even making eye contact with me.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And this was probably like the second or third date with this dude, and like I was like, What?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, how about this dude just calls me out?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Kaylee loves this story, but like this dude straight up just like called me out on it, and it was like a huge moment for me to be like, oh my god, I can't make eye contact with men.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Holy shit! Like you were saying, like, it's like I didn't realize all the stuff that I was carrying.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So what did I end, what I ended up doing is going to Google and I was like, I just need to find a therapist.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I wanted to specifically find a therapist that understood, I guess at the time, like meditation and mindfulness.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so it was very important to me to find somebody that really valued those things.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I ended up finding this girl, and she actually had a roster full.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was full, she couldn't fit me in.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't, I don't know why.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, but I meditate and like I'm really, I'm really mindful.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, wait, that was the ear perk up moment for her.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: She was like, You meditate?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yeah, I've been meditating for like four years at this point.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Oh, can you come in in the afternoons?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I would love to squeeze you in.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, most of my clients don't do this.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to be able to work with you, like when you already have that foundation.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yeah, sure.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Literally anything.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea that she was doing EMDR.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so we get in and I was like, okay, so we're just gonna like chit-chat about, you know, just like talk therapy, like what I thought all therapy was at that time.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, No, I actually do EMDR.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I was pissed.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was so annoyed.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: I literally was like, cool, now I'm just like wasting my fucking time.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: This is not what I wanted.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to talk about like why I can't make eye contact with dudes.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like, can we get this over in three sessions?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: And like when I look back at my life, it's usually when I'm like super annoyed that like I know that I'm about to hit something that like I needed that I didn't know that I needed.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so she walked me through EMDR and we went back to like all of these things that ended up being tied together with my dad, like big surprise.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but since then, I have been, I think I was doing sessions with her for about a year, and I noticed a wild shift.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And it's funny because like after you do that, you're like, okay, cool, I'm healed.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, Mariah, you are 26 years old, girl, and you literally just scratch the surface.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, nah, that's that's cute that you think that.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: But it is wild that like it changes so much, but you don't fucking notice, like, it feels made up, like you were saying, like it literally feels like I'm making this up.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: This actually isn't a big deal because, like, in that moment, it's like sometimes you don't feel quote unquote traumatized, or like you don't feel like you're in fight or flight.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: You just feel like I'm an adult watching this kid have these reactions.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, logically, this doesn't even make any sense.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes it's surprising when you can look back and be like, but holy fuck, now I can very easily make eye contact with almost every human that like I come in contact with.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And like the results of it are just so fucking fascinating to me.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's um what?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't realize that you were upset.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because like I've heard you tell the story a number of times, but I didn't realize that you were like mad when she was like, We're doing EMDR.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's really funny.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because she told me that it takes eight sessions to like prepare to like in order to do it, and I was annoyed.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like wasting time.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: I literally was like, Are you fucked?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm smart, I can pick up on things quickly.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like, can't we just like zip, zip, zip?
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, No, this is what I do.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: If you don't want to do this, find somebody else.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Yeah, but like I think you're cool.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Okay, so we're gonna do it.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: And also the interesting thing is, I when we were getting into it, I don't know if I've spoken about this on the podcast, but like I have always had this deep fear of being schizophrenic, of becoming schizophrenic.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, I I my mom's mom, so my grandma, my mom's had it.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: I've never, yeah, I've never met her before.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: She passed away before I was born, but she was actually in a mental institution.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember my mom talking about it and talking about like, oh, like she's crazy, whatever.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, Well, schizophrenia like runs in the family.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be schizophrenic.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so when she was like explaining EMDR and like what you're doing, and she I was like, Well, why do we have to do this like eight session thing?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, basically to make sure that you're not schizophrenic.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there was my trigger.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was literally like, I was like, Oh my god, this is it.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: This is the time when like they're gonna lock me up.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like I had to talk with her about that and be like, I'm kind of freaking out just at the thought of it.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Well.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Go slow with it.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: But like me in that moment, I didn't realize how big of a fear that was, too.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it was all super interesting.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: That is hilarious.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Not that you were afraid of that, but that like obviously the universe speaks.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's actually a really great point that you bring up.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I have a a woman in my DMs who is kind of like asking about that specifically.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, oh, I'm trained in DMDR.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've healed so many things with plant medicine and breath work and whatever.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can't we just get started?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, like, I don't know you.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: I like I I fully am in belief that you have done immense work on your own using other modalities.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know you.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: So for me to practice ethically, we absolutely have to document your history.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: I have to get to know you.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have to make sure you're safe.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I have to because similar to plant medicine, not everybody's appropriate for EMDR.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Not everybody's ready to be like rooting around in their unconscious mind.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: If they don't have any distress tolerance skills, if they don't have any emotion regulation skills, if they are living in an abusive dynamic, if they are currently suicidal, if they are currently in the throes of like real severe addiction, it ain't like it ain't time.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: We can like work together to get you ready for sure, but like it's not always gonna be like ready for takeoff immediately.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um because again, this is real trauma work.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: And in order for trauma work to occur, there has to be some anchor of safety, um, which is the safe place exercise that we use to install uh basically a physiological safety response in the body so that we can appropriately process.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because if somebody can't install safe place, they are not a candidate for EMDR.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I have many clients who we it takes us a couple sessions to install Safe Place.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you can't you can't do that ethically.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I do have a client who did not successfully install Safe Place, but then they were doing EMDR for like two years with their therapist and like it didn't help.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I was like asking them questions about their process and like where we should begin, I was like, Oh, do you have SafePlace?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Yeah, but when we installed it, like I just kept seeing myself like running between all these huge monsters, and I was really afraid.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Yeah, that's not it.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's not safety.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so then when we got it, then we started making like real tangible progress pretty easily, but you have to start there and you have to start wherever your client is.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing that I want to speak to actually is that like whole schizophrenic fear, because I also use parts work with EMDR.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And not every therapist does this.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, parts work, internal family systems, similar to EMDR, is like really kind of like sweeping, sweeping the scene as far as mental health treatment goes right now, because it's it works, because it's real.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: I love IFS because it's it really parallels like shamanic philosophy in a lot of ways, which has been around you know thousands and thousands of years as opposed to like Western psychology, which has been like a hundred around 120 years, maybe.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so basically the core, the core principles of IFS, um, again, that's internal family system developed by Richard Schwartz, often referred to as parts work.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Parts work is like IF action, basically.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but the core tenant is that we all have a core self, like capital S, that can't be fabricated, can't be forced or willed into being, but the core self is naturally elicited when we feel safe.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the the hallmarks of that core self are that it's curious, passionate, patient, interested, but at peace.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then we construct not like you know, on purpose, but like kind of like refresh reflexively, we develop all these other parts of self in order to navigate the complexities of our lives.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's, you know, wounded children, there's kind of like manager protector parts that kind of keep the lights on, that they're the more like people-pleasing or overly stoic, overly analytical.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's like the um, he calls them firefighters, and those are like the really addictive, uh, maladaptive parts that come online when like the exiled parts, which are the traumatized parts, usually those are like the wounded children, um, get too loud.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, anyway, what I incorporate is is this parts work, and it there's also like roots in Youngian analysis as well, because we'll access like higher, higher self parts or like an internal mother figure or an internal father figure, depending on what is appropriate.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that can feel fucking schizophrenic.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you have, when I'm like asking you, like you, adult you, to have a conversation with a five-year-old you, and it feels so real, and like you're having the emotive experience of both parties at the same time can feel like you're schizophrenic.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I remember like driving, it was like when I was like in between like my first ugly like couple months of EMDR, I was like driving to the grocery store and I had like three parts cycling, and I was like, thank fucking god, nobody can hear me or like what's going on in my head because I know I'm not crazy, but like, whoa, boy, is there a part of me that like wants to think I'm crazy?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: But it, but I think what grounds me and my clients is that it works, is that when you're schizophrenic, you don't feel relief.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: When you're doing parts work well, you feel relief.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a big I have done IFS and Parts Work a lot.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if you guys are familiar with the movie Inside Out, I think the creators of that movie were really influenced by Parts Work.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: So that's kind of like a nice intro to that idea if you're curious about it.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_03: But that has been really foundationally helpful for me to um really stop shaming myself around like habits and behaviors that I don't like and just see them from more of a zoomed out, like objective perspective.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: And it's funny, we wanted to have an episode this season about IFS and parts work, so I'm glad that you're bringing that up.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting to think about how those two go together, but I want to kind of tie back EMDR for a second.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: The reason that I am attracted to EMDR is because of that.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, talk therapy is great, and I think it's a really awesome um tool for people in a certain point.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: But I got to a point with talk therapy of just like, I can talk, I can talk myself around anything, I can talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I just wasn't feeling like I was making much progress or really getting at like what is deeply going on here, like what's going on in the subconscious.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: It kind of just felt a little surface level.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: So what I was attracted to about EMDR is just, I know that there is talking involved, but it's less of just like that classic form of therapy where you're laying on a couch, just like, ugh, and it's more of and I want you guys to talk about what actually happens because I think what is actually happening in the room is very interesting.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's you are asking questions to the person, and based on their answers, you're kind of guiding them with curiosity.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_03: We're going down certain rabbit holes.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and they're moving their eyes back and forth while you're asking questions.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's a lot of eye movement and answering questions.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: And that to me sounds so bizarre and like how like you were saying, like, how is this working?
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I liked what you said about the garbage disposal.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: That was a really helpful metaphor.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, just talk to us about like what is actually happening in session.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds magical.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's well, I say all the time it's witchcraft, like it's it shouldn't be as powerful as it is, given the little I'm doing, really.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it the the subtly tuned awareness is important, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because like I can hear what's happening.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, what it looks like on the surface, actually, I just like really quickly want to speak to a point you made about talk therapy because I think this is important because I think this will land for a lot of people.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think anybody who's on like a self-development journey has come to this point where they've done talk therapy and they hit a wall and they think, and I think a lot of people think, well, maybe it's just this therapist, or maybe I'm just like done, but they're not.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that talk therapy literally can only access what we know.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people complain how debilitating their self-awareness is without their ability to do anything deeper.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, I have all the self-awareness, I know why I'm doing these things, I know that I don't want to be, and I'm like so stuck.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm spinning my wheels, I'm hitting the gas, nothing's fucking happening.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: What's wrong with me?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that talk therapy is not able to access what you don't know about yourself and you don't know what's in there.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is why I love EMDR.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love talk therapy, I love normal therapy.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: And EMD, like talk therapy is never going to heal trauma, period.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can't convince me otherwise.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're just not going to.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so for people who have traumatic experiences in their life, which is so funny, because like when my therapist, same actually, I saw him out because he does Young Yin analysis and dream work.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then he like, you know, we had our console and he's like, yeah, no, we're not doing that.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing EMDR.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, what do you mean?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: But like my story is fucking insane.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, of course, like, of course, any good therapist worth their salt is gonna be like, no, babe, you need trauma treatment.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um, he was right.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but anyway, and you know, we we talked about it.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, you know, you should not be doing this well.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I know, but he said, like, any therapist, I think it's people with my kind of background, like a talk therapist is just gonna see like money bags, right?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because you could talk, there's a million things to talk about forever, and I'm a Gemini.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: I love to fucking chit chat, but I'm not gonna get treated.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: My joke all the time, my goal is to get fired.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, my goal is that you don't need me anymore.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you can come back every couple months and we'll spot clean you or whatever, but like I want my like I want to be good at my job, and that means that like I'm treating and like having people heal themselves so that they don't need to come back every week for the next 20 years.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's really important for me to say is that talk therapy is not gonna treat trauma, period.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: It can help you get ready to treat trauma for sure.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna treat trauma.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but what happens in session?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: It is so unremarkable, it's hilarious.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: So uh have a client come in, and actually I'll be curious because Mariah's done a processing session with me, so I'd love to hear her take, but it's so like almost forgettable.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So a client comes in, they tell me what they're working with, and one of two things happens.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, like Mariah said, there is a prep phase in which you're building a rapport with the client, but you're documenting trauma, you're understanding how their psyche works, you're understanding like their tipping points, their triggers, but also like the specific memories that cause them the most woe in their life.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: So either a client comes in, they tell me about what they've been struggling with over the last week or couple weeks, and then we kind of like hone in on a target together.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Or if they don't have something to work with, I usually have something in mind that I think is best to target based on their presentation over, you know, our course of work together.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: So then we pop over to like my EMDR specific platform and I ask what are baselining questions effectively.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: So trauma, as we know, is stored in a number of ways.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that is again why talk therapy is not going to be able to effectively treat trauma, because we don't just store trauma as like what we believe about ourselves and like the image of what happened.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: We also store it as um a level of arousal, and we also store it as like as a locus in the physical body, which we all know by this point.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: The body keeps score.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we know.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: So what I do is I ask my client to tell me what the image of the trauma is, right?
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's usually like a vignette or like it's somebody's like face right in front of whatever it is.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I ask them what the negative belief associated with this image is.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it's usually something like, I'm not safe, I'm not worthy, yada, yada.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's always a belief about the self or the world, right?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and that takes some like, you know, teasing out sometimes.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then I ask them to like rate how true those sound, yada, yada.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that also confuses people and whatever.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: But so we get what the negative cognition associated with the images.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: We add, we de decide or identify what the positive cognition we're looking to replace that belief is.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm safe, I'm worthy, I'm lovable, whatever.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: I can trust myself is a big one.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Then we um identify how distressing it is, right?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because like some traumas are like a five, some are like a 10.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: What's always really interesting is I'll have, you know, I always start like my first EMDR processing session with a client, I ask them to choose like a medium memory.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll pick something.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we're going in and really looking at it, it's much more intense than their adult self has arrated it, which makes sense, right?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because hopefully they've done some healing.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: So like falling off their bike when they were seven isn't a 10, but it was when they were seven.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's parts work in action, right?
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously that is speaking to two disparate parts that are evaluating one singular event in a different way.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: The whole idea of EMDR is everybody gets on the same page.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um, that's an arousal rating, and then um, we identify where it's living in the body.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then I ask them to notice the image, the negative belief, where it's stored in the body, and then we start the eye movements.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: And what I tell my clients is you cannot get a bad grade at EMDR.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: So many of my clients fall into the demographic, they're high-achieving, successful women who are doing well.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: They just want to, they just want to be good.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: They just want to do it right.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so so many times there's a people-pleasing tendency to be like, oh, nothing happened.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, or I think to not tell me everything that happened in the set.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, you need to tell me everything that happened in the set.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: If a song got stuck in your head, if some random memories that you think are unrelated came through, tell me.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you got a weird sensation in your body, if you were just following dots, if you got, we're thinking about your grocery list, all of that matters and tells me where you are and how to intervene.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like that is the biggest takeaway.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you are going to be doing EMDR in any capacity with yourself or somebody else, you have to tell your therapist or practitioner what is going on because that tells them if you're processing or not.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not your job to decide if you're processing or not.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's your job to be the client.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's your job to just watch what is going on in your experience and let your clinician be the clinician.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: So they'll, you know, the sets are like 35 seconds to 45 seconds.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: They come out, they tell me what's going on.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: And based on what they tell me, I can tell if things are going the way it's supposed to or not.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so if they are, I actually intervene as little as possible.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'll just say notice that.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: They'll and then because their brain is metabolizing in the way that the brain is best designed to do, right?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's like with plant medicine.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't intervene almost at all if I don't have to, because I trust the innate wisdom of the subconscious, unconscious mind to do what it needs to do, more than like my own understanding of their mind, you know what I mean?
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I will intervene as little as possible.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: If they're getting stuck, I'll introduce some parts work.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'll ask them to bring such a safe place, I'll ask um them to I'll and I might um amp up a prompt a little bit.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, um, if they come out and they say, Oh, one of my favorite, favorite sessions ever was this woman.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: She had an abortion like 20 years ago and has just been carrying this crippling, crippling shame about it ever since.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: She's in a very um unhealthy, abusive relationship, currently with her husband and is like in the process of leaving.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, she now is dealing with um an ovarian cancer diagnosis, and she had to go in for a biopsy, which was obviously going to stimulate all of that abortion trauma.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we she was like, she came in like really keyed up.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: And this is again the importance of like working with somebody who knows what they're doing, because like I, because I've known her and I've worked with her for a year, I felt like we're gonna do the abortion today.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas you it might not be the best idea to like go in and do somebody's like worst trauma if like they're really keyed up and you don't know them really well, but I felt confident.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: And she did it so fast, but after one of the sets, she just like had this like eye-widening moment.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, there's a story here without shame.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Yes, I do.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like people say that they love my reactions after a set because I just get so stoked because I know what's happening.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I was like, Yes, notice that there is a story without shame.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I will like reiterate like the big salient things that they say to me to like really like lock it in for them.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but a lot of the times I'm just saying, notice that.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but every now and then I will, I'll do like it's called like a cognitive interweave where we take parts and use them to help the process along a little bit more.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, depending on like where things go, we'll retarget.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll revisit those baselining questions to see how they're presenting currently, and that'll tell me where, like what channels the trauma is still stuck in.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, the image might remain the same, but it might now appear like it's behind a veil, and you but and the distress has gone from like a 10 to a one, but you still might believe that you're unsafe.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: So then we'll target that because again, trauma is stored in multiple channels, and the goal is to clear them all.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just kind of like I don't know, it's it's really fun.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like it's it really is kind of like an art form, it's like very organic.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, whereas I should say this is not traditional EMDR that I do.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Traditional EMDR is just like notice that, notice that, notice that, notice that, notice that.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's not what I do, obviously.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then always, always we end a session by doing multiple passes in safe place.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: So after processing something that's like very high arousal, it's best to bring the client below baseline into a polyvagal relaxation response because there can be some hangover effects.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, if I think Mariah knows, I certainly do.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone who's done EMDR listening knows, like you can feel like you got hit by a truck for a couple of days after.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can have some like old stuff resurface.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: It can be really crunchy, and we don't really like there's really no way to predict that.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like just last week I did the worst memory of a client of mine.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was a sexual assault memory from childhood.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: She's been on top of the fucking world.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, no hangover, feeling powerful as all hell.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like there's really no way to know how people are gonna respond.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that is something that you know I'm really clear with all my clients about.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then start the processing at like a medium memory.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna go full send because we don't know how you're gonna respond.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, like it's like from where I sit, I'm like pressing a button saying, like it's it's it's stupid how simple it is in some regards.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like I said, it's so.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Profoundly effective.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: All of that you explain that very beautifully.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: Nice work.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do want to focus on something that I think is very healing on all levels, is like the validation.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: If you're doing EMDR or like in urine therapy or whatever, and you're not getting, I don't want to say like an extreme validation, like I don't need a cheerleader who's like, oh my god, girl, yeah, like I don't need that, but like literally just being like, wow, yeah, like that is something, or like that level of validation in itself of like, yeah, what I experienced wasn't normal.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: And like, oh yeah, that could have been a little traumatic.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, five-year-old me felt this distress at a 10, even though when I look at it as an adult, I'm seeing it as a two.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_02: But then it's interesting because when you go back to it, when you're moving your eyes and you're going back to it, at least from my experience, like I have gone in into sessions and I've worked with Kaylee, but like I've gone into sessions and I'm like, yeah, I think like, I don't know, I'm kind of just being curious about this thing.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like this memory keeps popping up for me.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I should like go into it.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, okay, cool, let's do it.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I do it, and I'm just like, yeah, I don't know if it's like, you know, like a big deal, like whatever.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'm in there, and then I'm like, um, nope, five-year-old me thinks that this is a 10, maybe a 10.5.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like I am jarred right now and like just crying, just crying.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like, holy, like, I knew that there was something there.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like sometimes you just know, especially when you start having that self-awareness.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then like you can zoom out a little bit, and then you'll notice something that you've never really noticed before.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, wow, that's interesting that I do that, or that's interesting that I thought that.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of where my curiosity went in terms of like, I feel like this is something I should explore.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's like the validation of like, yeah, girl, that would be fucking tough for a five-year-old to be able to deal with that.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then it's just the validation on its own, just sobbing.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: But on the surface of it, as adult me, I'm just like, what do you mean?
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's not that big of a deal.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: But I also feel like for me, that's, and I feel like a lot of people, but like that's the natural reaction of like, yeah, but I don't want to be a burden.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want there to be an issue that I have to deal with because my big thing is like I was a parent to my parents ever since I was, I don't, I was probably a parent to them when I was in utero.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just like, so of course, I don't want to be the one to have an issue or like think that something's a big deal because I'm supposed to be the one that like puts out all the fires.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm the one that needs to be like even keeling, chilling.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's super interesting when you give yourself the space, the validation, and working with somebody that I feel like is very, very curious.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: I will say that my previous EMDR therapist was also very curious.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: And like Kaylee is also very curious, where it's like she was picking out things that I would have never seen.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like for mine, she was like, Go deeper into the confusion.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Right.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: I remember there was like one thing that you were like, I needed to go down that thread.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I literally was like, the confusion.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: I would have never even thought to go down the confusion.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like just having somebody hold space for these for these things is like wildly beneficial.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: I want to talk about the randomness for a minute.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because one thing we keep circling back on, and I like that point you made, and these kind of experiences, I've always had that like, oh, this is too random, and this is like I shouldn't be thinking about this right now.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is just like my squirrel mind.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_03: This is not helpful, this is just such a random thing.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I wanted to zoom out actually, why are we talking about all of this?
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why do we do this?
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of us don't realize how much of our daily decision making is influenced by past trauma in the subconscious.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I am just learning a little bit more about this, but my curiosity is piqued.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we are not in the steering wheel as much as we think we are.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of the way that we are reacting is actually that little five-year-old that Mariah was describing having that big reaction, but we're kind of disassociated from it at this point as adults.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: So, this whole point is our decision-making framework and our processing systems are influenced by all this stuff that we really are not aware of on a surface level.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: So, that is the power in all of this is going back, revisiting these things that we've kind of dug uh deep holes in our body with, and they're just kind of sitting there causing us with bad habits, coping mechanisms, you know, maladaptive tendencies, that kind of stuff.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: So, anyway, I'm on I'm trying to tie this idea together.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know who Sam Harris is in the his book called The Illusion of Free Will or Free Will?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I have heard the name.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, but I was he the one, was he on Huberman?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: I know Huberman interviewed somebody who argues against free will, and I really love that.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's a controversial topic.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: It this guy's basically saying that like we have no free will.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: Basically, all of these random thoughts that pop up, we then justify with logic, and that's how we act.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, really, all of your decisions are they can kind of prove it with science.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like you make them in a different place than you think you're making them.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: You're just justifying them.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so, whether or not you believe the free will thing, I know it's very uh uh riling up for some people, but I've been very interested in that idea of like the random thought.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_03: The random thing that pops up that feels so random.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_03: And up until this point in my life, I've just kind of been like, what the hell is that?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's not doesn't mean anything.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: So when you said that earlier about like pay attention to the random, that's really a signal from the subconscious.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, oh, yeah, no, no, no, no.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: No, there is no such thing as random thought in my my understanding, my belief system.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's like young yin.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's a very young-in um tenant, basically.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it's true, and I've seen this over and over again, especially in the realm of plant medicine, especially in the realm of EMDR.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: Your brain wants to heal, like your mind wants peace and integration and that felt sense of wholeness.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: And any random, seemingly random thought or or even sensation that is emerging from your subconscious, unconscious, is telling you where you need to look, what you need to address, or where you are currently, right?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, for example, intrusive thoughts, which unfortunately a lot of people with like OCD trauma experience, um, is randomness in the form of intrusive thought.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: That is a part of self saying, I am not safe, help me, right?
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: Or random thoughts about a memory that like was seemingly innocuous from childhood.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: What is that part trying to tell you?
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: Again, this is where the IFS framework is really, really helpful because if you think it's all just you, it's gonna feel random.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be like, maybe I need Adderall, maybe I need to like meditate more.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's a part of you that's showing you where you're stuck or where you're trying to find joy, maybe.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but I feel like usually this have like a negative flavor.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and where like you can play with that is ask that part, right?
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, see if you can get a hook and be like, hey, like how old am I?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: How old is that thought feeling?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me more.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know more.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: I want I'm here to listen.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they might show you other memories, they might show you a sensation you're buying like sadness.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: They might say words that say, you know, one of the first times I did this, my therapist did this with me.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking about preparing for EMDR.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: And um he asked me to ask my parts if any of them had any questions.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: And a five-year-old spoke up and said, Will it make the bad man go away?
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you can't fucking make that up.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was just like so instantaneous, so right there.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I mean by like some of my clients struggle initially to like trust what they're I feel like I'm making it up.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you just made that up.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't take it with any grain of salt.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why, like, you know, I think everything that I've done, you know, my intuitive work, my teaching intuitive development has really led me to like be excellent at facilitating EMDR, is because it it all your intuition is, is your unconscious.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why people are like, oh, I followed my intuition and it led me into whatever.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's because your unconscious wants you to fucking heal.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you it wants you to go down that path.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: So you see this is your patterning and this is where you're stuck, and this is what you need to address.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Not because you were supposed to win the lottery when you went down that alley, but because there was something that you needed to look at there so that you could be better.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: I love this so much.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like through the conversation, it's just there's just like chills.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully we're inspiring you guys.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a little bit of curiosity in terms of this, just start Googling it.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_02: Google it, learn a little bit about it.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: Connect with Kaylee.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: She's like really good at answering questions about things.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_02: She really is like a wealth of knowledge, and I'm sure that you could tell by this conversation so far.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, I feel like one of the hardest things is like knowing that it's worth going to therapy for.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, guys.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, is this worth it?
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I noticed that I was having shame when I was eating certain things.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, this is just like this is I'm I'm being a silly little goose.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why am I?
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then it kept happening.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, once you notice it, then I got curious about it.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, wait, is it happening when I like eat this?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, yep, there it is.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, what about when I eat this?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, yep, there it is.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh fuck.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, there's a pattern here.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, yeah, this is something.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I love the way that you break that down of just like it's your intuition wanting to heal.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we want to be healed, and like we want to put down the backpack that was never ours to carry.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_02: And like the seemingly small things add up and change your decisions.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_02: It changes your entire perception, your entire perspective, how you see the world, how you interact with people.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: This stuff can change literally everything, even though it feels small.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even though I had a confrontation with my dad when I was seven years old making a grilled cheese because he made one comment.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: That was enough to be like, have shame around certain foods that I was eating.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's enough, even though in my adult mind I was like, it's not that big of a deal.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like my dad was just kind of an asshole.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, yeah, but then like, look how that completely shifted how now I was interacting with food, how I'm interacting with my father, which is how I'm interacting with men, which is now my safety because this happened in my home.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now I don't feel safe eating X, Y, and Z in my home.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just like my body feels completely chaotic.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like once you start to notice the subtle stress, because that's another thing.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: We have so much fucking stress on our lives and we're completely stimulated all of the time if we're not careful.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, we're just we have the stress baseline that's so much higher.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's very hard to notice sometimes when you're even in a state of arousal because you're like, I'm always in a state of arousal.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean?
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just firing on all cylinders all the time because I'm smart.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I told myself.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm smart, so I just fire on all cylinders.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, intelligent people are always super, super stressed.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I thought.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Yeah, we're just floating around being chaotic in my brain because I'm fucking smart and funny and witty, and so I have to be stressed.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I just feel like this all the time, but like once you start a healing, you're like, hey guys, did you know that peace feels cool?
• 56:43
  unknown: God damn it.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's yeah, it's fascinating because it also you can feel relief right then in the moment.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: You can, but usually I find that healing happens in hindsight, and you were like, wow, I just handled a conflict conversation in a way that I would never would have handled before, where I was neutral and I was handling conflict like a fucking boss, dude.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: When before that would have spiraled me into 17 different situations, and it's just like this reminder of like, oh, it's probably because I've been giving like my child self some space to tell me how she felt in conflict situations.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like it, it's all connected even with the shit that you don't even realize that it's connected with.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, precisely.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_01: I find that that's an excellent point that like it it's in interpersonal situations where like I still have like a physiological response because like I'm invested in the relationship, right?
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I care, so it's stressful, and I like notice the heart rate goes up.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, it's like a surge and it gets like in my throat.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then I just open my mouth and adult words come out and compassion comes out, and like understanding comes out, and my you know, usually it's a parent.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they say something very off script because I'm acting off script.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, wait a minute, are we creating a new relationship?
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is this real?
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is this all all the stuff that I've studied and learned about and talked about for years and years?
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is this real?
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it is, and it's crazy.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like the things, yeah, I appreciate the hindsight because even just yesterday I had a question or a conversation with somebody that I really cared about that would have seen me running for the hills.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: And instead, I was just like really compassionate and curious and grounded and like, yeah, we can deal with this.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's EMDR, baby.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's healing.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: The one, the other thing, aside from the talk therapy difference that I find really empowering about EMDR is, and something I've heard you two both say is once you learn this skill set or this tool, it's something you can then.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to say do it on yourself, because I there is a practiced art form here where there are professionals who know what they're doing, they have gone deep, they have the foundation for it.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you need to start, like me getting into it.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: I know I need to start with them and build up the foundation.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_03: But the skills you learn in session, you can then go in your day-to-day life.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's the hardest part about therapy.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, yeah, I'm feeling good for this one hour a week when I'm talking to you, but like, what about the rest of the hours in the week?
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I really like it as like, oh, this is a tool that I can then use to support myself when those little bumps in the road come up like along the way.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_03: Would you guys mind sharing a little bit more about like how you use it on a day-to-day basis?
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say, I would say you can do it on yourself.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: But like with some caveats.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I would not recommend somebody who's never done EMDR with a clinician, somebody who does this professionally.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would never say, like, yeah, just start doing it, don't do that.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: However, when you have a when you know the work, when you know that space, because it is like a space, like it is a it's like a frequency, it's a it's a cop, it's a state of consciousness.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: And when you start, when you have some familiarity with navigating it, it's because like yeah, life is not gonna like conveniently schedule your triggers and bad moments for the day before you have therapy scheduled, right?
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not, it doesn't work that way.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: And there is there, I want to look at my phone and see.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's an app, it's just called EMDR, and it's it literally or they even on YouTube, you can look up like um bilateral simulation emdr dot videos, and you can just pause and play it for to do facilitate sets when you're having a trigger.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't recommend using EMDR on yourself to process like your big core traumas, not because you can't do it necessarily, but because we are very often wounded in interpersonal dynamics, and it is so radically healing to have somebody hold space for you to heal in an interpersonal dynamic.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's very grounding, it's very validating, like Mariah said it earlier.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, plus it's just like again, like I and I used to subscribe to this, like whole like kind of like over-identifying with being able to do hard things and like do them alone and like do the like this, like kind of like martyrdom.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: And like I I don't anymore.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want my life to be really easy, feel really good.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's it really is just a little bit easier when somebody's like holding space for you.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: However, spot cleaning or addressing things that are just kind of like itchy or like out of town and you're not gonna see them for a couple of weeks, like absolutely you can do EMDR on yourself using the eye movements that are available.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, there's um a I think it was like a$2 app on um my iPhone or on um YouTube, and you can absolutely get cleared up.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, again, I find it's not as robust because you're you're having to guide and follow, which can be a little bit like um not disorienting, but like it just helps having a mirror outside of you.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, follow this thread.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is it.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: But absolutely it can be really effective managing your triggers and kind of like swells.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you don't have access to a therapist.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: But again, I would not recommend doing so if you have not had some experience with EMDR with a therapist first.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad that we brought this up.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: I will do EMDR on myself for the small things.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like if I feel like it's bigger or it will be nice for somebody to hold space, like I will reach out now.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like before I didn't even realize that I kind of could do it on myself.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I was like, fuck.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to like build a whole new relationship with a therapist.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like before Kaylee started doing it, I was like, I don't know, all of this other stuff.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: But like actually, I just got back in town from being on a long weekend vacation with my family.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: And thank God for EMDR when I'm sitting on the beach, because I was just like, my body is so stressed out.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm taking a look at my aura ring and it's like, hey, did you just run?
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, nope, actually, just laying here on the beach in the sun.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry about me.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: But like, I feel like I'm being chased by a lion.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: But it was really helpful to have that tool in my tool belt where it was like I could do this, and I I probably didn't do it effectively, but I did it enough to like be able to access, like, hey, where is this coming from?
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then being able to like create more safety in my body, which I feel like that's the key, is fucking feeling safe.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: And like that's really what I needed at that at that moment in that time.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been really, really helpful to just have a tool.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_02: But Kayla, I do want to ask you.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like you've used EMDR on yourself in your life.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: Can you just explain like how it's impacted you?
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are the changes that you've seen either in life or like in business?
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, doing it on myself or just like EMDR in general?
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: EMDR in general.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um I cannot imagine my life without EMDR to be real.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: I had done so much work prior to EMDR.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: For a lot of people, it's the inverse, right?
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, like for me, plant medicine has been hugely instrumental in my healing.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and for a lot of people I work with, they've done EMDR and then come to me for plant medicine or and like, and I I don't know why, but like they work really well together.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um obviously, like plant medicine, it's more like you get what they give you, and EMDR is like self-directed.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's also part of what is so healing about it is like the outcome is self-leadership.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's your adult self facilitating your life most of the time, right?
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's only like 85, 90, it's better than what a lot of people are functioning at, which is probably like 50 or less.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was alarmed when I initially realized how little I felt like an adult woman in charge of my life.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like I very often felt like I was 18.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, no wonder business is like kind of hard.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I fucking feel like a child.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say, like, if I could kind of like distill it in a couple of words, the most robust, profound impact EMDR has had on my life is self-leadership.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel autonomous.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: I feel in my power to use, you know, like the new agey phrasing.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I really feel like a bad bitch who's very capable and intelligent.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, like there's there's shit.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I have never felt peace in my body the way that I do now.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have never felt so confident and trusting in myself and in life.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because like these are all things that we know intellectually, I think.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe not everybody, right?
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: But like these are all things that I knew intellectually and I could not make sense of in my body, and now I can't.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: And like as a result, like just like everything's blown up.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: Business has blown up, my relationships are blown up.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: I feel the best I ever have in my body, like just appearance-wise, physiologically.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's I'm really, really enjoying my life.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_01: Life tastes better.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: Literally.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, but I think you know, peace is is it is it.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_03: I love that word self-leadership.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_03: I wrote that down.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's very powerful and um something that we all struggle with.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_03: I really resonated when you were saying, like, I I struggle to feel like an adult woman a lot of times.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I I that's very tangible.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um and one thing you've mentioned a couple of times that I just want to kind of reiterate is I would guess that most of the people listening to this right now are like us, where we are in our heads, we are smart women, we've operated in our heads, and that's helped us out of a lot of situations out of our whole life, in our whole life.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_03: And you can understand all of this stuff intellectually.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's not a problem for anybody, anybody listening.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_03: We get it intellectually.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: This stuff is more about a feeling, and it's not gonna be like maybe in session you have this like mind blow moment, but the next morning you wake up and you just feel more at peace and you're like, holy shit, I didn't used to feel this way.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so I like that like connecting back with the body, connecting back with feelings.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_03: And that's really like where the subconscious lives is very helpful for me and encouraging.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for sharing all of that.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I wanted to give as we round this out, Mariah has been sharing with me that you've kind of had an awesome summer.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_03: And as you were just talking about you living, you know, in this really embodied best version of you.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_03: Can you tell us a little bit about what you've done this summer and how this has like kind of shown up?
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God, I love you're asking this question.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I have been working for myself for three and a half years.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've been like on this journey though, waiting to arrive, not waiting, work my ass off, really, to arrive at this point for like closer to seven.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I again, by and large, thanks to EMDR and you know, like doing the work outside of session, yada yada.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have arrived at a point where I can chill.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like everything is here.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I have just dedicated my summer to enjoying my life.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I have not worked on my business outside of client sessions at all.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've sent no emails, I've done no workshops, no classes.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: I will post on my stories when I feel like it, which is pretty often because I'm a Gemini.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_01: I really love social media.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: But like I haven't been like posting like worky stuff even.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I've really just been posting like me living my best life, which means going to the beach as much as possible, eating ice cream uh six, six to seven days a week, um, going to ecstatic dance, picking flowers, and like really just enjoying my life.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And because what's the point?
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, what is the point of building my business and life to have all this freedom, you know, financially, temporally, physically, emotionally, and otherwise, if I'm not gonna enjoy, right?
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not gonna be motivated to hit my like next financial goal and enjoy the money that I got now.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if I can't enjoy the time I have now.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so funny because as I do, like obviously, more and more things are showing up.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like a really wonderful person has showed up.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Therapy with my mother is going really well.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I um got invited to speak at a handful of things, like at Penn State at University of Buffalo, like all these things that I like used to put a pet on a pedestal.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, now this is just my life.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's really fun and cool.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's definitely been moments this summer where I like you have that like reflexive, like, oh, I really probably should be posting about something.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you had a really smart idea.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you should make a real.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, parts work, right?
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is a manager part that's used to being busy because that is how I've survived, like grad school, undergrad, et cetera.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And when I am able, but I because of EMDR, because of really radical healing, I have enough leverage on that truth part of me, the part of me that knows peace.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that kind of foot on the scale lets me see like that's a lie.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not real, that's not ultimately true.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_01: What if I actually just slam laptop shut and go to the beach?
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And turns out I've made the same amount of money.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Things are going really well.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a sick tan to show for it.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I love that we kind of went into this conversation because, like, it's just another example of like success is a different for everybody, B, when you allow yourself to sit back in the feeling of safety and joy and peace, things still show up for you.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_02: I think just like us as business owners, consistently hearing examples of possibilities of like how this is possible and how people are doing it, not by the bro marketing, posting three to five reels per week, posting 17 YouTube videos by sending 45 emails.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's cool to hear examples of like, listen, I'm not saying that I'm doing nothing.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_02: What I'm saying is that I'm actually prioritizing myself and I'm doing the work.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing the inner work, and look how beautifully the outer stuff shows up for it when I feel like our entire society was created on focus on the outer and actually actually completely ignore the inner so that you can focus on the outer way more.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, what a beautiful example that like when you do take the time to prioritize, even though it feels fucking lame, it sounds so lame.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_02: When you're just like prioritize feeling safe.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm literally just like eye roll.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: I have heard that 17 million times.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Cool, I'm safe.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm an adult, I live in an apartment that has like some doors locked.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I am safe.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like my logical brain is like, okay, cool, get it.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_02: But the body is like, yeah, but you're not acting like we're safe.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_02: You're not giving us time to actually go down the rabbit hole of what safety means for us within yourselves.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that is different.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how we can just like that's how the success, quote unquote, the success comes, the opportunity show up.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's all connected, even though, like, on the outside, most people think that it's not.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and so something that is like really um present here that I think deserves like explicit labeling be and actually answers a bit more of a question that Shay had asked earlier about like what is EMDR for?
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_01: So traditionally, it is for trauma, eating disorder, OCD, like anxiety, depression, whatever, grief.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's also for manifestation, right?
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I often, right, like if a client moves through something effectively, I'll have them, I'll say, can you can you picture a scene in the future where you handle X situation with total peace or total autonomy or whatever?
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then they'll do a set and they play it out.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so like in the micro, but also the macro, because what we know about manifestation is you have to feel the feelings in your body as if it's already here.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you can't fucking feel safe or peace or free in your body because your dad was mean to you or because your mom was mean to you, right?
• 1:15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're not gonna be able to, even though you know you're safe, even though you see the locks on the doors, right?
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what EMDR has done, right, is like created that leverage for me.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I'm not like totally absolved of my parts that are anxious or afraid or traumatized, but I have enough leverage on them now that I know I can trust myself.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that is what all of my work is designed to do, is my goal is tricking people into trusting themselves because exactly success looks different for everybody.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, that means fucking off all summer, taking singing lessons, eating ice cream, right?
• 1:15:43
  SPEAKER_01: For somebody else, it might mean like selling all their things and moving to Bali, right?
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like in every with everything in between.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like success is different for everybody.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And in order for us to know what it means for us, is we have to be willing to trust our own path and trust those random thoughts, feelings, inklings.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_03: So we have to wrap up.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_03: But you just said so many things there that I want to talk to you about forever.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, is the number one.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, aesthetic dance has been a game changer for me.
• 1:16:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, Mariah, I just wanted to take a note like, let's do an episode on aesthetic dance.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_03: But the last thing I wanted to leave this on is I love the you mentioned this earlier and it like puked my ears up.
• 1:16:32
  SPEAKER_03: EMDR, the way we're talking about it, a lot of times we're starting with the heavy, the painful.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_03: But there's also when you can work through that, there's kind of this cool light at the end of the tunnel if like there's a really empowering side of this where you can actually use it to get farther in life and push yourself ahead.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_03: And that takes time to get there, but that is so optimistic and encouraging.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you for leaving us there.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_03: This whole episode was insane.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_03: You're insane.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_03: I love everything you say.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_03: I want to talk to you for like eight hours.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um but unfortunately, we have to wrap this one up.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_03: Do you mind sharing with us just um where we can follow along with you or like how we can connect with you and work with you?
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um Instagram is the best place to find me.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_01: My name's spelled funny.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure our lovely host will spell it for you.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh C A I L I underscore D-A-N-I-E-U, Kaylee Danu.
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Also, website KayleeDanu.com, spelled the same way.
• 1:17:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's about it.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not that complicated in that way, anyway.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna put all of those links in the show notes below, but we have one question that we ask every human on the podcast.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, what has been sparking your curiosity lately?
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, God.
• 1:17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, this is too big.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, um, like because everything always.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think most recently, and it's it's like not lately, it's like a return to this recurring thing that I have with attachment.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_01: So my master's thesis in grad school was on um maladaptive treated, like being maladapted, or I'm so sorry, being treated poorly as a child and how that like leads to maladaptive attachment.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, like I said, I'm working through a lot with my mother right now and it's going well, but it's just like a very much a process and reading this book, Mother Hunger, and like really just kind of like curious and in awe of how perfectly designed this whole system is, right?
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_01: You have to have two parents, you have to be come from a mother, you have to be a baby, you have to be raised basically from a putty, um, and and develop into a pattern of behaviors and traits that we call human and experience, and um just how perfectly horrifically designed it all is.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, so I think like attachment styles in general, but like at a much more like primal primordial level.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_02: I love your curiosities, A, because I feel like they all like I I love you as a human, but it's like I love your curiosities because like they're all interconnected into this way that like makes your work better, which like and how it's all designed and how it all functions together and like where you're naturally drawn to in the rabbit holes that you go down.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just really grateful that I get to witness you as a friend and to just hear all of this stuff.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_02: You're the best.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_02: I wish we could keep you here forever, but I think that we are ready to close this episode down.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_02: So remember, friends, that you have the power to create whatever the fuck you want.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_02: Follow the nudge, ask the questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 1:20:03
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see you in the next episode.