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Episode 124 - Why Do We Love Characters Who Aren't Real? · Sorta Sophisticated

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Welcome to Sorta Sophisticated with Pete and Amanda. Okay, give me your favorite childhood. Fictional character. Cartoon or like, real person. But they have to be fiction.
• 0:14
  Speaker B: Fiction. Fake.
• 0:15
  Speaker A: Fiction. Fake. Fake. Totally fake. Fake.
• 0:21
  Speaker B: Oh, this is a hard one.
• 0:22
  Speaker A: You don't have to.
• 0:23
  Speaker B: Fievel Goes West.
• 0:25
  Speaker A: What?
• 0:25
  Speaker B: Bible goes West.
• 0:26
  Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. American tail.
• 0:29
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 0:29
  Speaker A: Yes. All right. Like, why? Like what? Like what?
• 0:31
  Speaker B: You know, it was probably because I grew up, like, with the whole Oregon Trail game, and, you know, it was just. I think my life just. Like, that was my little bubble. Right.
• 0:41
  Speaker A: Very impressionable.
• 0:43
  Speaker B: Little House on the Prairie. Right. Like, it just all was about being in covered white House.
• 0:48
  Speaker A: Is that why you like your national park so much? Probably.
• 0:51
  Speaker B: Maybe. I have no clue. This.
• 0:53
  Speaker A: I like this. Get on the couch.
• 0:54
  Speaker B: Like childhood, childhood, childhood. Yeah.
• 0:56
  Speaker A: Okay, that's good. That's good, that's good. Mine was similarly strange. Do you remember the Jungle Book?
• 1:03
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04
  Speaker A: Mowgli.
• 1:04
  Speaker B: Oh, Mowgli.
• 1:05
  Speaker A: I don't know.
• 1:06
  Speaker B: The feral child.
• 1:06
  Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know what. Because that's not what I was. Maybe that's what I wanted to be, but, like, I was, like, obsessed with all things Mowgli. Yeah. Okay. Where am I going with all this? Right?
• 1:17
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:18
  Speaker A: Okay, here's the deal. This is why this month. Not this month, today. Literally today, actually, October 14, the day this is being released, Winnie the pooh is turning 100 years old.
• 1:30
  Speaker B: No way.
• 1:31
  Speaker A: Winnie the Pooh?
• 1:33
  Speaker B: Yes. What?
• 1:33
  Speaker A: Yes, that. What is it?
• 1:34
  Speaker B: A hundred years?
• 1:35
  Speaker A: That fluffy little chubby all stuffed with fluff. I don't know what it is, but you get the idea, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I figured that would be like, a good. Like a good. There's a lot to learn from Winnie the Pooh. Like, I get it on the surface.
• 1:46
  Speaker B: I mean, I got questions.
• 1:48
  Speaker A: What's your question?
• 1:49
  Speaker B: Why did the guy who voices like Winnie the Pooh not get inducted as a legacy?
• 1:55
  Speaker A: I don't know anything about the guy.
• 1:57
  Speaker B: Legend. A Disney legend. That's what it's called.
• 1:58
  Speaker A: I don't even know the guy who voiced. This isn't even about. This is about the book. This is about.
• 2:02
  Speaker B: Oh, there's a book. I mean, I didn't know that there was a book.
• 2:04
  Speaker A: This is the whole story behind the story. Yes. That's what we're gonna talk about. And did you know, like, so, like, a few reasons, actually. 1. Did you know, like, Winnie the Pooh characters are all personality profiles?
• 2:14
  Speaker B: Yeah. It was like, the original right inside out.
• 2:16
  Speaker A: I don't even think they did that on purpose, but yes, that's it's. Like, original thing.
• 2:19
  Speaker B: Had to have.
• 2:20
  Speaker A: Okay, I. I didn't know that, like,
• 2:21
  Speaker B: tiggers are adhd, friend.
• 2:22
  Speaker A: Right. Okay, here we go. So. So I thought that was kind of like, we could talk some of that stuff. And then I just was fascinated with the whole idea of how humans have this, like, developed this love, like you just said. Right. For fifo, going west or whatever. For fictional characters, like, somehow we think they're real. What is that about? Especially about our childhood and why we connect with fictional characters. So, like, oh, my God, like, prominently, whatever the word viscerally. I don't know what the word is. You get what I'm saying? So I thought, like, I mean, we all have those would be a good thing. Yes, we do. Right. But when you're older, you don't have those.
• 2:53
  Speaker B: I don't think that's true.
• 2:54
  Speaker A: Do you have the same vibe for a fictional character now that you're an adult? Probably not. Right? You know what I'm saying? Like, it's a childhood experience for sure. Okay. Whatever. Here we go. Ready for official title. Why do we love characters who aren't real? Winnie the pooh turns 100. Okay. Yeah. Our promise today is why your brain treats fictional characters like real people and why rewatching old favorites on a bad night actually helps.
• 3:17
  Speaker B: Oh, yes, that makes sense. Actually.
• 3:19
  Speaker A: High anxiety. Like I do. Okay. To the surprisingly dark story Dun dun, Dun behind Winnie the Pooh and how it's secretly a book about anxiety, depression, and how to be a good friend.
• 3:29
  Speaker B: I like it.
• 3:30
  Speaker A: Did you know that? Okay, we're gonna.
• 3:31
  Speaker B: Well, now that you said it, I could see themes. Right. Here we go.
• 3:34
  Speaker A: Okay. And finally, why the characters you meet as a kid somehow always managed to hit you the hardest. What I was trying to explain earlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Welcome back to Sort of Sophisticated, the podcast where culture, curiosity, and chaos collide. I'm Pete. That's Amanda, and we're talking all things poo. I love poo. I love my poo. Poo with an H. Yes. Yes.
• 3:56
  Speaker B: What's our word of the week, Pooh?
• 3:58
  Speaker A: The word of the week is Bellwether.
• 4:01
  Speaker B: Bellwether.
• 4:02
  Speaker A: Oh, my God, I stumped you. Look at your face. You're like Bellwether. Yes, Bellwether.
• 4:07
  Speaker B: I feel like it's a last name.
• 4:09
  Speaker A: It probably is.
• 4:10
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 4:10
  Speaker A: That's a good last name. Amanda Bellwether.
• 4:12
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 4:13
  Speaker A: I don't know. I like that it's something or someone that sets the trend or signals where things are heading. The leader everybody else follows.
• 4:20
  Speaker B: I mean. Okay, like Bell curve.
• 4:21
  Speaker A: Bell curve. That probably comes from a guy like Mr. Bell, Alexander Graham Bell.
• 4:27
  Speaker B: Everybody follows, right?
• 4:29
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:30
  Speaker B: Okay. Okay.
• 4:30
  Speaker A: Something or someone that sets a trend.
• 4:32
  Speaker B: Right. Which is like what a bell curve is.
• 4:33
  Speaker A: Okay, well, the bell curve's like.
• 4:35
  Speaker B: Right. But is it the leader of the bell curve? Right.
• 4:37
  Speaker A: Well, you want to be on that, but then you're on the downswing slope of that anyway.
• 4:40
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 4:41
  Speaker A: It comes from the Middle English. It's got nothing to do with weather. Yes. So it's actually weather. W e T H e R. Not like W a T e H e R. Anyway.
• 4:48
  Speaker B: Oh. It's also funny because I thought it was W. You were like, weather or not.
• 4:51
  Speaker A: No, not. It actually is another name for a castrated ram.
• 4:57
  Speaker B: A weather.
• 4:57
  Speaker A: A castrated ram. It's called a weather.
• 4:59
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 5:00
  Speaker A: Shepherds would hang a bell around one of the weather's neck after they castrated him, and the rest of the flock followed the sound of the bell. So the original bellwether was a neutered sheep with a cowbell, and everybody just went wherever he went. Which I think is interesting because I've always heard bellwether with states when you're doing elections. It's a bellwether state. You ever heard of that?
• 5:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's a leading state.
• 5:24
  Speaker A: Yes. Right. And that. That's because it's like they're trending.
• 5:28
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 5:29
  Speaker A: Yes. That's why those states are.
• 5:30
  Speaker B: So you want to argue that you're a bellwether podcaster? Are you bellwethering?
• 5:35
  Speaker A: I'm bellwether. Yes. I'm in the middle of Bellwether. It depends on how many followers you have. So if you get a lot of followers, maybe you're bellwether.
• 5:41
  Speaker B: You're a good leader. Okay.
• 5:42
  Speaker A: Right. So right now we're testing the waters of Bellwether. We're nowhere near that.
• 5:48
  Speaker B: So if we all can help Pete out a little bit to become the best bellwether that there is.
• 5:52
  Speaker A: Oh, just not you.
• 5:53
  Speaker B: What can we do?
• 5:54
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 5:54
  Speaker B: Uh huh.
• 5:54
  Speaker A: Right. Subscribe, subscribe. Let's go. Let's go. New episodes are out weekly. Let's do this. Are you ready?
• 6:01
  Speaker B: Yeah. Rip it off. Let's go.
• 6:02
  Speaker A: It's happening. Okay, the dark story. Can I go right to the dark story? Okay, here we go.
• 6:06
  Speaker B: Is it kind of like Mr. Toad's?
• 6:07
  Speaker A: It's even darker.
• 6:08
  Speaker B: What? Yeah, Mr. Toad is pretty dark.
• 6:10
  Speaker A: Do you know the story behind Mr. Toad?
• 6:12
  Speaker B: I don't. He goes to hell. I'm back.
• 6:14
  Speaker A: No, I know. No, but this isn't like I'M not going to tell the story of Winnie the Pooh. I'm going to tell you how it was created. But, yes. No, no, no. I understand your Mr. Joe reference. Here we go. Okay, so it starts in 1914, like, 10 or 12 years before. Actually, Winnie the Pooh was created in 1926. So this guy named Harry Colburn, a Canadian army veterinarian. Not a veteran, a veterinarian. Right, army veterinarian. He was an animal doctor for the cavalry. Okay, Cavalry. Not cavalry. Remember Cavalry? Okay. Yeah. He gets drafted World War I.
• 6:44
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 6:45
  Speaker A: So during his train stop in Ontario, Canada, he buys an orphaned black bear for $20. What, like a real one? Right. Because apparently that's what Canadian army people do that are, like, getting shipped off to England. They buy a bear to go with them. What the f is that? He names it Winnipeg, after, of course, his hometown.
• 7:07
  Speaker B: Right.
• 7:07
  Speaker A: Where he's from. Okay, check this out. It ends up becoming the regiment's mascot. Yes. Like, they're allowed to take it with them to England and, like, while they're doing their exercises, like. Yes, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. It wasn't until Harry and his unit got shipped off to, like, the front lines of the war or whatever you call it, that they finally were like, okay, Winnipeg can't go with us. And they shipped her off to the London Zoo.
• 7:33
  Speaker B: Wait, are you gonna tell me Winnie the Pooh is a girl?
• 7:35
  Speaker A: Winnie the Pooh was originally a girl. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Here's where it gets wild. Okay, so apparently at the zoo now we're in the zoo in England. Okay, Kids could go and pet her, because that's totally normal that you can go pet a black bear at a zoo. I don't.
• 7:49
  Speaker B: Well, I'd assume it was, like, a
• 7:50
  Speaker A: black bear maybe because it was 1926. I don't even know what's going on. Okay, Anyway, so one of the kids that got to go pet her and meter was none other than a real boy named Christopher Robin. Did you know he was real?
• 8:01
  Speaker B: No.
• 8:02
  Speaker A: Christopher Robin Milne. I didn't know he was real. Yes, that's the author's son. Okay, so.
• 8:08
  Speaker B: Oh, so it was all inspired by
• 8:11
  Speaker A: Christopher Robin, born in 1920. So what? He's like 4 or 5 years old at the time. He's petting this bear. Right. He is the only child of British author A.A. milne, the creator of Winnie the Pooh. Right. So anyway, Christopher goes home. He's so infatuated with this black bear. He had a teddy bear at home. He renames his teddy bear his Teddy Bear was Edward. Apparently his teddy bear had a penis. He renamed his bear Winning.
• 8:35
  Speaker B: And this is when he became a boy.
• 8:37
  Speaker A: There we go. When he became a boy, huh? How about Pooh? Because bear's got a poo. So he dug a little hole in the back by his tail. Okay, no. All right, all right, all right. Here's like. So check this part out. I was like, yeah, where does pooh actually come from? He actually says it at the beginning of the book. Like Milne actually like writes it out. So that's the story. Anyway, I guess Christopher Robin would try to feed swans, like, I don't know, every morning by his house, swans. Like they would like go into a pond or whatever. And he named one of the swans Pooh. Cause the whole joke was he would like try to call the swan over to him. And swans, of course, wouldn't listen or know. So I guess in England at the time, if you said poo, it was like if we were saying like, aw, shucks. Oh, like poo poo. So he wouldn't look stupid in his four or five year old brain. He would just be like, poo, poo. And then when the swan came over, got fed, he looked good, but Swan never came over. He didn't look like an idiot. So either way, he was good. So that's apparently like where the name Winnie the Pooh comes from, because you have to have a last name for a bear.
• 9:33
  Speaker B: So it was all a joke.
• 9:35
  Speaker A: It was all a joke. Here we are.
• 9:36
  Speaker B: All right. Who knew? I did not.
• 9:39
  Speaker A: Okay, right. Not do none of this shit. That's not even the dark part. That's like the fun part.
• 9:42
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:43
  Speaker A: Milne was also a World War I vet.
• 9:46
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 9:46
  Speaker A: Like hardcore. So this wasn't some feel good thing. This was trauma that he was managing. So check this out. When he went to war, he participated in probably one of the bloodiest battles in all of, like world war history.
• 10:01
  Speaker B: Dang.
• 10:01
  Speaker A: The. The sum. I think it was called S O M E the battle of. Some 300,000 men died on that battlefield. Yes, 300,000 during that. And that was like a four month, like campaign in that place. Yeah, it was crazy. Anyway, he ends up, Milne ends up with something called trench fever. Because, you know, back in the day, they didn't have like, AI missiles and like that. You like dig trenches and everything. So he ends up with trench fever. And they sent him home. So he was like totally fucked up. But anyway, got out of the war. Da, da, da. So Winnie the Pooh was created as the trauma to deal with Everything he had experienced. That's why, if you think about Winnie the Pooh, it's a story about nothing bad happens. There's no antagonist in the story. There's little. Like, he's trying to get. Honey, he's trying to. Like, he's just sort of futzing around. The Hundred Acre Wood. Right. There's not an antagonist. I mean, you have the heffalumps and woozles. I get it. But, like, they're all imaginary.
• 10:51
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 10:51
  Speaker A: Which was probably in his head, which is crazy shit anyway.
• 10:56
  Speaker B: That's crazy.
• 10:57
  Speaker A: Yeah. Fantasy place.
• 10:58
  Speaker B: So did Christopher, like, love it? Because his dad wrote this story about this experience that he had, and you know how he renamed his Bear Winnipeg?
• 11:08
  Speaker A: I mean, why would. So jury's out. Well, on the one hand, you're like, yes, of course he did. Because, like, he wrote it about him and all his little fake friends and, you know, the Hundred Acre Wood. But I guess as he got older, he got bullied. Like, bully bullied by classmates and shit in England. All about how his dad was using him for success.
• 11:29
  Speaker B: Was it him or was it just his name?
• 11:30
  Speaker A: Well, him. His name, whatever. I mean, like, he created this whole Persona, Christopher Robin, which you would argue has similarities to his son's personality profile. And all his friends would say, your dad's a hack. And all he did this for was to make money. Yes. On you. And it sort of sucked. So I think the older he got, he felt exploited, like, completely and totally by his dad without sort of ever realizing that he never.
• 11:57
  Speaker B: But I'm sure he gets tons of royalties.
• 11:59
  Speaker A: I don't. Fuck, I don't. What do I know, dude? We'd have to look all that stuff up.
• 12:02
  Speaker B: Does the real Christopher Robin get royalties?
• 12:04
  Speaker A: Probably.
• 12:05
  Speaker B: I'm interested.
• 12:06
  Speaker A: Find out.
• 12:06
  Speaker B: Okay, I will.
• 12:07
  Speaker A: You're like, the. Whenever there's shit going on on the podcast, you're the researcher. I research. I research. Pride.
• 12:14
  Speaker B: Random thoughts.
• 12:14
  Speaker A: You research during.
• 12:16
  Speaker B: Okay, got it, got it, got it.
• 12:17
  Speaker A: I'm just flipping the script. We're done with the background. Done with dark story.
• 12:20
  Speaker B: Done.
• 12:21
  Speaker A: Okay. I'm gonna go to this whole, like, what was my other promise about, like, why we fall in love with fictional characters in the first place? Right.
• 12:27
  Speaker B: All right.
• 12:27
  Speaker A: So here's sort of how that whole thing happened, because it wasn't like it magically happened. It's like the closer and closer we were able to get to characters over the centuries, the more this started occurring. This is a phenomenon that started occurring. Cause you can imagine, like, back in. I don't know, like, it wasn't like we had shit written down and stories and all this kind of stuff. Right. I mean, we had papyrus, but stuff like that. But like, nowadays go all the way to, like, the phone in your pocket, and it's like you have it available to you. So if you think about as storytelling got better, I think we had the ability to get closer and closer to these fictional characters. Does that make sense? Did you look this up? Do you have the answer yet?
• 12:58
  Speaker B: I do.
• 12:59
  Speaker A: What do you got?
• 13:00
  Speaker B: So, I mean, he did die in 1996.
• 13:03
  Speaker A: RIP Christopher Robin Milne, and maybe you'll talk about it.
• 13:06
  Speaker B: All the rest of the characters were Christmas presents.
• 13:09
  Speaker A: We just want to find out if he had royalties.
• 13:11
  Speaker B: Oh, if you get.
• 13:12
  Speaker A: No, sorry, it's not there.
• 13:14
  Speaker B: Not yet.
• 13:15
  Speaker A: Okay, got it. Okay. So all starts in the 1800s. Because before that, like I said, too hard to gain access to these characters. So that was the first time when, like, on a regular basis, you could have access on corner newsstands.
• 13:26
  Speaker B: Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 13:26
  Speaker A: That's where it all started. So once newspapers became a thing, authors could start writing like these, whatever they like, installments, I don't know what you would call them. And readers had something to look forward to every week. Fun fact. That's how Charles Dickens blew up. Totally separate. I didn't know that. I mean, I know he was a writer. You got it.
• 13:40
  Speaker B: Yes, I do. Sorry. The real life Christopher Robin largely refused to accept royalties or money from his father's Winnie the Pooh books, though he later sold his share of the estate to set up a trust for his
• 13:50
  Speaker A: daughter for $20 billion. Right, anyway, whatever.
• 13:54
  Speaker B: Because he was so angry he refused it.
• 13:56
  Speaker A: Yeah, okay, whatever. Can I get back to Mr. Dickens, please?
• 13:58
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 13:58
  Speaker A: So anyway, I guess the first character people fell in love with back in the 1840s was some little girl named Nell. I didn't know anything about this. Right. She was in the newspaper story that he wr, who's publishing something called the Old Curiosity Shop. They say that people in New York used to wait in lines, like, around the corner. Like these huge, huge lines. Like when the ships would come in off the docks to drop off the newspapers and they would be like, okay, what's happening with Nell? What's the story on Nell? Because the sailors, obviously were on the ships, already knew the story. Cause they already read the story. But whatever. Okay, I don't know, little bit hysterical maybe, but whatever. Anyway, fast forward, end of that same century, 1887 to be exact. Arthur Conan Doyle. Oh, Sherlock Holmes. Yeah, everyone goes nuts for Sherlock Holmes. Then he gets bored. A few years later he kills Sherlock Holmes, which, I don't know. That was a smart move, but that was one of the first times when reader outcry, like usurped his ability to do anything. He had to bring Sherlock Holmes back to life. Where am I going with all this? Right. That's when people started realizing characters matter way more than people thought they did.
• 14:55
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 14:56
  Speaker A: I'm just trying to show you the power that was being generated just from print alone. Right.
• 15:01
  Speaker B: It was this whole movement. It was like bringing a whole new breath right now.
• 15:05
  Speaker A: Right. Because before they didn't have access to it. Yeah. So now fast forward 1926, Winnie the Pooh. And Pooh's different because it's not for adults anymore. So now he's read out loud by a parent to a child at home at bedtime during a very like think about. That's like one of the most open a parent and a child would ever be to each other. Is like during bedtime reading a book to each other. Most vulnerable, I guess is the word I'm looking for. Super safe. And they're listening to it by their mom or dad. So naturally Winnie the Pooh went from being a character in a book to like being tucked in right next to you at night. Does this make sense? Yes, this is a fascination.
• 15:43
  Speaker B: It's a whole new.
• 15:44
  Speaker A: I don't think people realize how storytelling, the advancements in storytelling have created us to care about fictional characters. And that's why we cry at stupid commercials nowadays. This is the psychology behind why we cry at commercials.
• 15:57
  Speaker B: But even like if you think about it, this was the moment that created bedtime.
• 16:02
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 16:03
  Speaker B: Like things that we've all done with our kids, things that we're encouraged to do, to read.
• 16:07
  Speaker A: And this was it.
• 16:08
  Speaker B: It's crazy, right?
• 16:09
  Speaker A: We just assumed it was always happening. This was sort of a turning point when it happened. Fast forward to television. We're in the 1960s. Walt Disney, Winnie the Pooh puts it on television. Now it's everywhere. Right. As soon as it goes on television, forget about it. I'm going to take it one step further. I'm going to go super far. I'm going to go all the way to Harry Potter now. Different but the same. Because when you think about the way J.K. rowling did this whole thing, she had you grow up with Harry Potter. If you were a 10 year old kid in whatever it was the middle of the 90s, she wrote what, seven or eight books? Well, the last book was two movies, but one book over 10 years. So Harry grows up from 10 years old to 7 to 20 years old. You are growing up alongside of him. So the genius, of course it was a genius world that she created, so on and so forth. But the genius was. It was the first time we ever allowed characters to grow up alongside. Cause Winnie the Pooh was just a bear, right? He was sort of. He was.
• 17:02
  Speaker B: I don't know if he ever got old, right?
• 17:03
  Speaker A: He was just sort of thinking maybe he got a little bit fatter. You know what I mean? Maybe we need to put on exercise regime. But you get the idea. So anyway, now it's just stupid because now everything's available in your pocket, 24 hours, seven days a week. Da, da, da. So thousands and thousands of years go by, and in the last 200, you go from characters on a newsstand to literally living in your pocket on a phone. Full access. You get everything you want. No wonder we love all of our fictional characters.
• 17:26
  Speaker B: Well, and. Okay, so then what's happening in our brains? Because that's such a massive transition, right, from newspaper stands to instant access on your phone. Constant information all the time, right?
• 17:38
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 17:39
  Speaker B: So, like, obviously our brains have.
• 17:40
  Speaker A: It's that. It's, it's. It's probably has something to do with like, the 150 people in the village and the whole thing. Don't get me wrong. But here's my argument. I don't know. When did humans start? Hundreds of thousands of years ago? I don't know.
• 17:49
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 17:49
  Speaker A: All we were deciding was, like, we never had to decide if people were real or not. Of course they were real. We were meeting them face to face all the time. We didn't have access to technology. We didn't have AI. We didn't have any of that shit. So we were more worried about, like, are they safe more than are they real?
• 18:06
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 18:06
  Speaker A: So are they real? Didn't even need a. Like, a folder in our brain. So when you. When you think about. This is my argument. This isn't psychology's argument. This is literally the argument according to Peter Polinsky. My argument is basically like 200 years ago. It was like yesterday in terms of evolution. Right. Compared to hundreds of thousands of years ago. So this idea of when characters started showing up in books, the part of our brain that never had to develop, is this person real or not? All we care about is, is this person safe or not? Not. Is this person real or not? In which case they all just come together in the same thing. Okay? This. This person is safe. Winnie the Pooh is safe. Harry Potter is safe. Right? We have protagonists that we like, we have antagonists that we hate. We don't have some separate category where you're like, oh, that's a fake person. So I don't have an evidence of all that shit. Let's cut the crap. It's like virtual reality. Think of all the people that live. People nowadays live there in virtual reality, in these worlds. They make up their own worlds so
• 19:00
  Speaker B: they're not lonely, so they marry their AI agent.
• 19:03
  Speaker A: So it's like. It's like. I actually have one data point to like, maybe support this whole argument. In 2023, two researchers at Ohio State put Game of Thrones. Did you watch Game of Thrones?
• 19:12
  Speaker B: Yeah, a little bit. Well, a little bit.
• 19:14
  Speaker A: One thing. You okay, Game of Thrones fans in it? An FMRI machine. Don't ask me what that thing is. It like. It's a brain scanner that does some shit, I'm sure. You know, maybe listeners know what an FMRI is. Okay. I'm way too sophisticated for me. Had them do three tests. One was to think about themselves, and then they were going to monitor whatever happened. Another one was to think about a real life friend. Like, I would think about you and, like, okay, what happens in my brain? And third was to think about their favorite character on Game of Thrones.
• 19:38
  Speaker B: I see where this goes.
• 19:39
  Speaker A: Okay. Right.
• 19:40
  Speaker B: What was the result?
• 19:41
  Speaker A: All three cases. The brain part right behind your forehead, it's called the. Holy shit. Let me get this right. The medial prefrontal cortex lit up the exact same way for real friends as it did for, like, my favorite character, Jon Snow. Right. Okay. Super fun fact. In the Loneliest People, I guess they, like, categorized the people if they were lonely or not lonely before they went in. The difference was indistinguishable.
• 20:01
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 20:01
  Speaker A: Between your friend and Jon Snow or, like, whoever your favorite character was.
• 20:05
  Speaker B: I mean, this totally makes sense, though. And like, so here's my thing, is that I have never been one that has, like, had celebrity fever, right?
• 20:13
  Speaker A: Like, yeah, no, because celebrity. But celebrities are real. I'm talking. No, no, but.
• 20:17
  Speaker B: No, no, but I'm saying, like, people view, like, the Twilight series, right? Yeah. Like, even though Robert, Pat Pattinson, Patterson.
• 20:23
  Speaker A: Whatever, whatever. I don't know. I didn't watch it.
• 20:25
  Speaker B: Or Lautner. Taylor Lautner. Like, these were people who are humans who had lives, but people still see them as a werewolf and vampire.
• 20:32
  Speaker A: You see what I'm saying?
• 20:33
  Speaker B: And then you meet them and you're like, oh, my gosh, it's, you know, Atticus Finch.
• 20:36
  Speaker A: In my favorite book of all time. Yeah, yeah. Mockingbird. Same, same.
• 20:39
  Speaker B: It's. But you meet these people. Yes. They're real people, but they want them, the character. And then people freak out as if they're friends or if they know this person because.
• 20:50
  Speaker A: But of who they body.
• 20:52
  Speaker B: Yeah, right, exactly.
• 20:54
  Speaker A: And again, I think. I think it has to do with the whole, you're safe in my brain. That's my argument.
• 21:00
  Speaker B: Or is it like loneliness too?
• 21:02
  Speaker A: We're all kind of lonely.
• 21:04
  Speaker B: Right. So then we make up this in our brain.
• 21:06
  Speaker A: Of course we do.
• 21:07
  Speaker B: Connection.
• 21:07
  Speaker A: Of course we do.
• 21:08
  Speaker B: To this character. It's not real.
• 21:10
  Speaker A: It's a lot easier to do Amanda, than having real relationships with people. Yes, yes. Psychologists have a name for that, actually. It's called parasocial relationships.
• 21:19
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 21:19
  Speaker A: Which is just another name for a one sided relationship. Yes. You know, everything about them. They don't exist. That's how it works. Like me and my next girlfriend. Right.
• 21:28
  Speaker B: She's not here yet.
• 21:28
  Speaker A: Let's go. Okay. Two sociologists come up with that term back in 1956, watching how people bonded with. In your case, you were saying, like celebrities as a character with TV hosts.
• 21:37
  Speaker B: Okay, that makes sense.
• 21:38
  Speaker A: And it's so real, Amanda, that studies show that when your favorite series ends, they have scientific evidence that people show how their grief tracks with how attached they were to the characters. The same way if they broke up with somebody in real life.
• 21:53
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 21:54
  Speaker A: And that's called a parasocial breakup because you're breaking up with something that doesn't exist. Again, like me and my old girlfriend. So here we are. Right. It's quite hysterical. There's a silver lining.
• 22:04
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 22:04
  Speaker A: Silver lining. Okay. When you think about it, people that are dealing with grief and loss. Yours truly.
• 22:08
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 22:09
  Speaker A: That's why I go back and re. Watch how I was saying at the beginning. All of these old shows that are super predictable and super comforting for me because they trigger that feeling of safeness. I don't want to have a real relationship. I want to have my fake relationship with somebody I know I can trust. So whether that's a Seinfeld character or whether that's Winnie the Pooh or whether that's Parks and Recreation, whatever it is, it's more predictable. It's way more predictable. And it's. And it's safe. And I know how my characters are going to behave and they're not going to let me down. So actually, believe it or not, it helps with grief. You're not wasting people. People might think like, oh, my God, Pete, what the hell's wrong with you? No, it's, like, absolutely scientifically proven that doing that helps me manage my grief.
• 22:53
  Speaker B: So wait, what happens for people like me who I don't think I've ever rewatched something?
• 22:59
  Speaker A: Maybe you don't have a lot of grief. What do you want me to say? Like, you don't have a trauma experience, maybe so.
• 23:03
  Speaker B: Interesting, though.
• 23:03
  Speaker A: I have a ton of anxiety. I have a ton of grief, so I do it all the time.
• 23:06
  Speaker B: I have a ton of anxiety. I have trauma. I mean, like. No, I. Like, I think it's my adhd, because I literally do read. I do read, but I've never reread a book.
• 23:14
  Speaker A: Not. But not reread books. Just fiction in general. Do you read? Yeah. Okay, so maybe you're getting it from. Remember the whole idea. Remember we talked about fiction and storytelling and that whole thing? Like, it was way early on in this campaign of podcasts. I don't remember we said, like, that's why authors are incredible at, like, helping you learn about relationships through fiction, stories.
• 23:32
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
• 23:32
  Speaker A: Right. So maybe you're getting it from fiction. I don't know. No, I'm just spitballing.
• 23:37
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. All right. So basically, no one's wasting time if they're rewatching stuff.
• 23:40
  Speaker A: Thank you.
• 23:40
  Speaker B: We are just trying to feed a safety.
• 23:45
  Speaker A: Our safety, so we can, like, our nostalgia, calm down. Our nostalgia. We are wired for nostalgia. Yes.
• 23:52
  Speaker B: In our DNA.
• 23:53
  Speaker A: Fun fact about nostalgia, actually. Did you know it started as a disease?
• 23:57
  Speaker B: What?
• 23:57
  Speaker A: A disease.
• 23:58
  Speaker B: No, it didn't.
• 23:58
  Speaker A: Yes, it did. It started as a disease. Yes. It was an actual medical diagnosis. Yes. I love this. Cause when I was doing all this, I was, like, looking all this up and Winnie the Pooh this. And when I got down this rabbit hole, I was like, fuck, yeah. We're going. Okay. In 1688, a Swiss medical student named Johannes Hofer used it to describe the physical pain you get when you're yearning for home. He was describing Swiss mercenaries fighting abroad who got homesick. They would just, like, stop eating and waste away, literally die. It comes from the Greek nostos, meaning homecoming, and algos, meaning pain. Right. So it stayed a medical diagnosis for 250 years, all the way until the early 1900s, when they finally stopped using that as, like, a medical diagnosis and changed it to a psychological issue. Nostalgia is now a psychological. Yes. No, no. This is unbelievable. Yes.
• 24:46
  Speaker B: We use it with such endearing terms, though.
• 24:48
  Speaker A: Now we do. So in the 1900s, they switched it from medical to psychological, dealing with depression only. I Thought that was mic drop. Okay, but here's the deal. Regular people figured this out like you just said, way before scientists did. Cause by the 1970s, we collectively, we had already changed it to be like the positive, vibey sort of feeling that you get. Like, it's like super normal and super healthy. Yeah. Science didn't catch up until the late 90s. Yes. The late 90s. We were alive.
• 25:16
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 25:17
  Speaker A: Researchers in England ran experiments to prove what we already knew. The research concluded that nostalgia lifts your mood, makes you feel more connected to people, and makes life more meaningful. And it's a way to combat feeling sad and anxious. How do you like that?
• 25:30
  Speaker B: Full 180.
• 25:30
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 25:31
  Speaker B: And also, man, like, I mean, before
• 25:32
  Speaker A: that they knew it. I'm just saying, like, science officially declared it like that in the 1990s. But I mean, they already knew that.
• 25:39
  Speaker B: But these researchers, one would argue, was very bellwether in their findings.
• 25:42
  Speaker A: There it is.
• 25:43
  Speaker B: Right? Like, I mean, they were bellwether.
• 25:45
  Speaker A: They were the bellwethers of. But I mean, like what it was. Well, let's cut to shit here. I mean, my guess is they've been working on this for like decades and decades. I think they just officialized it with like, officialized. Can we use that as our word?
• 25:57
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 25:57
  Speaker A: Okay. Good work with the bellwether, by the way. Very good job. Well done.
• 26:00
  Speaker B: You know what's crazy if you think about it?
• 26:02
  Speaker A: What?
• 26:02
  Speaker B: Nostalgia is more of like a self defense mechanism.
• 26:04
  Speaker A: It is. Oh, no, that's my point. That was my whole point. It is, but it's a. It's very positive now.
• 26:09
  Speaker B: It is, yes. It's crazy how it didn't start that way.
• 26:11
  Speaker A: I know if I was alive in 1688, oh my gosh, they'd be giving me.
• 26:15
  Speaker B: So basically go get some tea, turn on Winnie the Pooh and live in your best nostalgic life.
• 26:20
  Speaker A: I'm gonna do that.
• 26:21
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 26:21
  Speaker A: That's happening, right? I'm doing. I'm absolutely doing it. It's funny you said that because the reason that that like now all the way back to Pooh. Right? Thank you.
• 26:28
  Speaker B: Disney paid a shit ton of money for it.
• 26:31
  Speaker A: You're so hilarious. Shut up. No, Disney's like, they're not like selling you a 100 year old bear. They're selling you to be four years old again. Like, they know what they're doing. They're trying to get you.
• 26:41
  Speaker B: Isn't that Disney in general though, right?
• 26:43
  Speaker A: They're trying to get you back on the floor with your bear. What was it, Edward, before it was Winning.
• 26:48
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 26:49
  Speaker A: That's what they're doing. They just. They figured out how to, like, figure all this. They know how to play to our heartstrings.
• 26:55
  Speaker B: Right? I mean, that's why it's lasted 100 years. Because obviously they've made that connection. And they're like, you love Winnie the Pooh. Who does it? I love Winnie and the Tigger and the Piglet and the Eeyore.
• 27:08
  Speaker A: All of them. Yes.
• 27:09
  Speaker B: Wait, but you had said that, like, earlier, all of these characters were some sort of emotion, which I kind of knew that it was like an inside out. Like pre.
• 27:17
  Speaker A: I did not know that before.
• 27:18
  Speaker B: Inside. I was inside out. Right.
• 27:19
  Speaker A: Inside out was amazing.
• 27:20
  Speaker B: But I mean, like, if you think about it, like, Pooh was always kind of like the happy, go lucky one. Tigger had the endless energy. Eeyore was always a sad rain cloud.
• 27:28
  Speaker A: Yes, you're right.
• 27:29
  Speaker B: Piglet was always scared.
• 27:31
  Speaker A: Piglet.
• 27:32
  Speaker B: Nervous, anxious.
• 27:33
  Speaker A: Piglet was. Oh, my God.
• 27:34
  Speaker B: Anxiety.
• 27:35
  Speaker A: Piglet was anxiety.
• 27:37
  Speaker B: So then what was Rabbit? Rabbit was cranky.
• 27:39
  Speaker A: Rabbit? No, Rabbit was like the. Was Rabbit the know it all? Owl was, like, calculating. He was the data guy. Right. Rabbit was controlling. Oh, Rabbit was the controlling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I would say Pooh was more like. You said, happy go lucky. I mean, yeah. But I'd say Pooh is more like just the. Live in the moment, okay? Like, live in the present, live in the moment. Sort of like he's always on the. Let's be honest. Pooh had an addiction. Pooh just wanted his honey. That was it.
• 28:05
  Speaker B: I mean, Pooh walked around without pants, right? Like, why does Pooh have shirt, no
• 28:09
  Speaker A: pants, looking for honey. What was this really about? And now, Peter Villain, what does honey represent? I'm confused. He did used to stick his head in all those holes, remember? And get stuck. This is starting to get a little strange. Okay, can we subject change? My bad. Sorry. I just thought that there's probably something to that.
• 28:27
  Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Anyway.
• 28:29
  Speaker A: You have nothing to say? I think it might be something.
• 28:31
  Speaker B: Anyways.
• 28:31
  Speaker A: All right, whatever.
• 28:32
  Speaker B: Fine. Are there birthday plans for this hundredth birthday?
• 28:35
  Speaker A: They do. They do. They do. They do.
• 28:36
  Speaker B: Is there something at Disneyland?
• 28:37
  Speaker A: No, I don't. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. We gotta go back to the personality stuff. I want to know, first of all, who you are. Like, do you. Do you, like, say you're one of them or another one? I'm by far. I'm Tigger. Well, I'm maybe a mix of Tigger and Piglet.
• 28:47
  Speaker B: I could see that. I Could see that.
• 28:49
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 28:49
  Speaker B: I don't know. Maybe Roo. Roo is curious, right?
• 28:52
  Speaker A: Oh, oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 28:54
  Speaker B: Like, I think I'm curious enough.
• 28:55
  Speaker A: And what was Kanga? She was like just the motherly, like mother figure.
• 28:58
  Speaker B: Sure. We're just gonna go with the kangaroos. Here we go.
• 29:00
  Speaker A: Okay. All right. So you're. You're the kangaroos, you're Roo, you're Kanga, you're all that thing. All right. I'm Tigger and Piglet. I'm. I'm Pigger. Yep, just call me Pigger. Or Tiglett. What? Doesn't matter. Okay. What'd you ask me about? Birthday plan? Shut up. Let's get. Hey, get. Come on, focus. Here we are. Yes. Okay, here's what's happening. Fun fact. The New York Public Library owns the actual original stuffed animals. I didn't know that.
• 29:20
  Speaker B: Aren't they like terrifying looking?
• 29:21
  Speaker A: They are. Yes, yes, yes. Pooh, Eeyore, Piglet, Tigger, all of them. Yeah, they're just sitting there in these little glass cases somewhere in Manhattan. Anyway, for the hundredth birthday they got this special display now through the end of November. So everybody get over there with Milne's original mock up drawings and all the original illustrations. Okay, Wait, Jim Cummings, that's the guy. Yes, that's the guy. The voice guy. Yes, he's doing the actual readings. So like over there, like, so whatever.
• 29:48
  Speaker B: Maybe he will get his Disney legends after.
• 29:50
  Speaker A: Maybe. Maybe that's it. Who knows? Okay then. Of course, yes. Disney's going all in on a bunch of other things. Year long global campaign mostly. Like selling stuff, right? Lego sets, Old Navy, Vera Bradley, like blind box figures. All these different things. Like all the nostalgia anywhere they could get it into any of their stores. They're just selling all the stuff, like marketing it everywhere. They already did the celebration at Disneyland, like in April. For some reason. They did it early. Yeah. And they had like all the characters displayed. They had like this big Lego thing. Da da da da. I didn't see it. But that's already done. Like, I don't know why they didn't match it with October. Maybe they had other plans. I have no idea. But whatever. That's. That's all.
• 30:25
  Speaker B: But are they doing like a movie sequel? Wasn't it like a Winnie the Pooh movie?
• 30:28
  Speaker A: There was Winnie the Pooh. They do Winnie the Pooh movies. They're just not big movies because there's no antagonist to Winnie the Pooh. Like, when you think about it, like we said, there's nothing like, how many heffalumps and woozles do you have? Like, and they don't want to kill anybody because it's just this fun thing. So, like, yes, they had a lot of different. I don't six or eight different Winnie the Pooh movies, but they don't hit, like, real Disney movies. So I don't think they're going to do anything. I mean, maybe they will, but I can't imagine. No, no, no, no.
• 30:52
  Speaker B: All right, well, is there anything else we got to talk about or are we going to roll into some fun facts?
• 30:56
  Speaker A: Did we do Winnie the Pooh justice?
• 30:57
  Speaker B: I think so. I mean, I learned. Please,
• 31:02
  Speaker A: Winnie Mountain. Chubby little. Yeah, okay. He was really chubby. We should talk about that. Like, okay. Anyway, I'm just kidding.
• 31:08
  Speaker B: Living his best life.
• 31:09
  Speaker A: Are we ready? Let's go. Let's go. Winnie. Winnipeg. Officially Winnipeg. The Pooh, sir. Winnipeg. The Pooh Bear. That's his full name. All right, fun facts. You ready?
• 31:18
  Speaker B: Yep.
• 31:19
  Speaker A: Okay. Number one. The original Pooh Toys came to America in 1947 for a publicity tour and never went home because they were from England.
• 31:28
  Speaker B: Also, why didn't Pooh have an accent?
• 31:30
  Speaker A: Right. Because he's. At least all of this doesn't.
• 31:31
  Speaker B: Probably cuz Disney bought it.
• 31:33
  Speaker A: And because the United States are bullies. In the 1990s, a British member of Parliament campaigned to bring the little stuffed animal toys back to England. And it turned into this whole diplomatic fight. New York's mayor at the time, Rudy Giuliani, basically decided, yeah, no one's getting them, and kept them in New York in the museum in Manhattan.
• 31:51
  Speaker B: I mean, I'm mad about it.
• 31:52
  Speaker A: They came in 1947 and they just stayed. Like, why? I feel like they're English property.
• 31:57
  Speaker B: Yeah. Where do they live? I don't know.
• 31:58
  Speaker A: Apparently Christopher Robin Milne didn't care enough. Okay, look up where they live. Number two. Winnie the Pooh was translated into Latin in 1960 as Winnie E. Le Pooh. I have no idea why, since Latin is a dead language, but they did it. And check this. It became the only book in Latin ever, ever to hit the New York Times bestseller list. Okay, why? Don't know. But what were you looking up?
• 32:23
  Speaker B: No. Oh, just where he lived.
• 32:24
  Speaker A: Oh, okay, just interrupt me. Number three. In the year 2000, the Canadian Medical Association Journal, CMAJ.
• 32:32
  Speaker B: Whoa.
• 32:32
  Speaker A: Published a paper diagnosing the residents of the Hundred Acre Woods. Satirical and fun, but still publish it. Pooh got adhd. You said Tigger was adhd. Pooh got ADHD and an eating disorder. Piglet Got anxiety. Eeyore got depression. It was written by a team of Canadian pediatricians who also gave Tigger hyperactivity and owl and got dyslexia and suggested that Christopher Robin might want to check in on all his friends. So that was, like, sort of like a cute way of doing what we just talked about with all the personality profiles, but they, like, actually did, like, tests or whatever on, like, their personalities. Make sense.
• 33:04
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 33:04
  Speaker A: Okay. Wait, did you find it?
• 33:05
  Speaker B: I did.
• 33:06
  Speaker A: What?
• 33:06
  Speaker B: So they all just lived, like, in the London area. So I don't. Yeah.
• 33:09
  Speaker A: In London.
• 33:10
  Speaker B: Feel like these.
• 33:11
  Speaker A: They should have accent.
• 33:12
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 33:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, they really should. We should go full English.
• 33:14
  Speaker B: Right?
• 33:14
  Speaker A: Bullshit. Okay. Number four. A lot of the most shared Pooh quotes. You gotta love a Pooh quote, right? On the Internet aren't even actually from the author.
• 33:24
  Speaker B: Really?
• 33:24
  Speaker A: Yes. No. So the most famous one that I know, everybody will know you're braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think. Yeah. That actually came from the 1997 Disney movie Pooh's Grand Adventure. Wasn't even written by the.
• 33:36
  Speaker B: You know what? It is the essence of Pooh.
• 33:38
  Speaker A: Right? So we just, like. We, like, our brains just, like, put it all together and, like.
• 33:41
  Speaker B: But, like, does it.
• 33:42
  Speaker A: I mean, whatever.
• 33:43
  Speaker B: Does it. Does Pooh stop?
• 33:45
  Speaker A: Pooh never stops. You have to poo, like, once or twice a day sometimes.
• 33:47
  Speaker B: Oh, my God.
• 33:48
  Speaker A: What?
• 33:48
  Speaker B: But Pooh doesn't stop just by the book.
• 33:51
  Speaker A: No, but. I know, but, like, I'm just saying, like, if you got quotes.
• 33:54
  Speaker B: But his identity now is Pooh's grand adventure, too.
• 33:57
  Speaker A: Can we come up with quotes? We can, and we'll just say. We'll just attribute them to Pooh. Yeah, that fat little bear. Okay, finally, last one. Did you know that Winnie the Pooh is effectively banned in China?
• 34:07
  Speaker B: No.
• 34:08
  Speaker A: Banned. Totally. Yes. I guess there was a meme going around that compared Pooh to President Xi Jinping.
• 34:14
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 34:14
  Speaker A: Yes. It started in 2013 when people online paired a photo of Xi Jinping with Obama next to a picture of Pooh and Tigger. I guess Obama got Tigger, Xi Jinping got Pooh. I don't know. After the incident, censors in China started scrubbing poo images out of everything.
• 34:29
  Speaker B: That's crazy.
• 34:29
  Speaker A: Yes. And Disney's 2018 Christopher Robin movie was never even allowed to be released in
• 34:34
  Speaker B: China, you know, and people think communism
• 34:36
  Speaker A: is great, all because of that joke. I think it was a pretty funny joke. People take shit too seriously.
• 34:40
  Speaker B: They do.
• 34:41
  Speaker A: That's all I got. Fun facts out. It's all You.
• 34:42
  Speaker B: All right, so people want to learn more about poo.
• 34:45
  Speaker A: I mean, I guess there's so much to learn about.
• 34:47
  Speaker B: They want, like, the psychology behind it. Right. Or kind of what you were talking about. Are there other things that they could watch, see, do?
• 34:53
  Speaker A: Well, first of all, just DM me on Instagram and I'll get you fun facts, episode summary. Absolutely. And we'll just chat about all things poo and I'll look up some and research it for you and tell you whatever. You wouldn't know. But, yeah, I would say these. One of these episodes, you don't have to do any homework. Don't do anything. Yeah. Just read. There's a book, A.A. milne, His Life. That's the name of the book by Anne Thwaite, I think is her name. It's a story of his life, sort of before and after Pooh. It's a biography. And then, of course, if you're in New York before the end of November, go check out, like, the original toys in the public library. But that's sort of it. Yeah. Yeah.
• 35:24
  Speaker B: I mean, don't read Christopher Robin's biography because he hated his dad.
• 35:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, don't.
• 35:28
  Speaker B: No.
• 35:29
  Speaker A: Ixnay on the Christopher Robin A.
• 35:31
  Speaker B: All right. Well, if you don't want to do any of that, just remember these details. Seems sort of sophisticated. Number one, Winnie the Pooh was published October 14, 1926. That was named after a real bear from Winnipeg that was adopted by a soldier and ended up living at the London Zoo, and then was written by a World War I veteran who survived the Somme named A.A. milne.
• 35:53
  Speaker A: I like that. It's a whole nice, quick summary.
• 35:56
  Speaker B: That was a whole cluster of how that all came to be. Number two, attachment to fictional characters is ancient, from Dickens little Nell in 1840s to Doyle's Sherlock Holmes, all the way up through Rowling's Harry Potter. The Internet didn't invent the original fandom. It just kind of gave it WI fi more access.
• 36:13
  Speaker A: Right. That's right. It's in our pocket.
• 36:14
  Speaker B: Yep. Number three, your brain processes favorite characters using some of the same machinery it uses for real life friends. Psychologists call it parasocial relationships. In Ohio State, researchers found that in lonely people, the brain's line between real friends and fictional characters start to blur.
• 36:31
  Speaker A: Oh, my God.
• 36:31
  Speaker B: Check yourself.
• 36:32
  Speaker A: I need new friends.
• 36:34
  Speaker B: Number four, nostalgia started as a medical diagnosis in 1688, but modern research shows it lifts mood and eases loneliness.
• 36:41
  Speaker A: It does.
• 36:41
  Speaker B: Rewatching old favorites on a bad night, is your brain just taking care of itself?
• 36:45
  Speaker A: I'm doing it for now, don't feel it. From here on out, I'm doing it.
• 36:49
  Speaker B: And finally, childhood characters hit hardest because you meet them while you're still learning how attachment works. And Pooh, literally a teddy bear, is a purest example of that.
• 36:59
  Speaker A: And there it is, dear listeners. We started today with a Canadian army veterinarian buying a bear cub for $20.
• 37:06
  Speaker B: It's crazy.
• 37:07
  Speaker A: And we ended up with grown adults lining up in Manhattan to stare at a teddy bear through glass. Who would have known? Hopefully, we made the case that being attached to fictional characters isn't as embarrassing as it seems. Maybe it's not something you're supposed to grow out of. Maybe the show you rewatch on a bad night or the bear you couldn't throw away isn't you failing to grow up. Maybe it's just the part of you that learned how to love in the first place, still doing its job. And if we did our job right today, you know, Pooh isn't just a cartoon on a Disney bug. He's a real bear from Winnipeg, a war veteran's escape, and a pretty decent guide to being a good friend. As always. Hit subscribe, leave us a review and share it with someone who still sleeps with a stuffed animal and swears it's decorative. Until next time, stay curious, stay present, because sometimes that's the smartest way to be.