Latest / Calm Under Fire / Andy Sharma

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Andy Sharma · Calm Under Fire

• Col John: Well, good afternoon, good morning. This is Colonel John Boggs, and this is Calm Under Fire. and I am the president of Fortitude Consulting, and Fortitude is an executive leadership development and coaching firm. And today we have with us Andy Sharma. Now, Andy spent more than three decades helping organizations bring innovation to market with a particular focus on healthcare, artificial intelligence, and business transformation. Now his work combines commercial strategy, responsible AI, and leadership in environments where technology has the potential to improve lives, but only when implemented thoughtfully. Today we're talking about leadership under pressure, especially the challenge of moving innovation forward while maintaining trust, safety, and sound judgment. Andy, welcome. Andy Sharma: Thank you, Connell Boggs. it's a pleasure to be here and thank you for your service. Col John: Thank you, sir. It was an honor to serve, believe me. Perfect. yeah, you know, innovation is is isn't simply about new technology. It's about helping people embrace change. So looking back across your career, when did you first realize innovation is really a leadership challenge rather than a technol a technological challenge? Andy Sharma: That's a great question and I love the way you put it. Innovation truly is about embracing change and helping people embrace change. when I discovered that was the case was probably in my second decade of consulting. you know, first decade was all about building really good solutions for clients that I believed in my comp the companies that I was with believed was the best answer. but we we all together soon realized that that's seldom the case, particularly when it comes to healthcare. th there's several levels of decision making complexity adoption that happens in healthcare organizations. first of all, we we belong to an industry where there's more C level executives than any other organization I've been a part of. and for the right reasons. So you've got a a chief nursing officer, you've got a chief medical officer, CEO, CEO, and and several folks like that. And every for for a solution to be successful, everybody needs to be aligned. So bringing everybody along has been kind of my philosophy for the last 20, 25 years. but you know where I'm finding myself right now and and John I'd love to talk about this a bit more. So the the bit about innovation through embracing change and helping people embrace change is I think the the call of the hour right now because we're we're in the midst of what people are calling the intelligence revolution. and you know with ai and everything that's happening and the the magnitude and velocity of this change is truly daunting. but what's what's actually happening is the the the velocity and magnitude Is actually exacerbating the imbalance between the haves and have nots, right? The haves, in my opinion, the tech companies, the VCs and PEs that are backing those tech companies, even folks like me who are doing AI implementations, are excited. and there's there's a level of exuberance that's that's in you know the whole that in our ecosystem. Yeah, not the people that are being impacted by this change are to say the least feeling trepidation about what's what's coming. And I I don't think there's enough leadership right now that's helping people embrace this change. And I you know as as we talk, I'd like to touch on on three leadership concepts that I think much needed now. So stewardship, Col John: Please. Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: resilience, and and optimism. I think those three things need to be done at at a at a higher level level of vigor. w we're not seeing a ton of that right now. And I can give you some examples of you know where the shortcomings are. Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: But would love to chat about that, but I I don't wanna sort of take over the whole conversation in the the first question. Col John: N no, n no, no, not at all. That's interesting. So w where do you see that? I mean, please give me more. Andy Sharma: Y y yeah, so I'll give you a a really short example. I was listening to venture capital firm talk about the intelligence revolution and the example they chose to give was and I'm I'm not gonna name the firm, they're highly respected, very successful firm. The example they give w gave was when the the Washington National Monument was being built in eighteen eighty four, I believe. they they decided to top the the built put a pyramid on top with with hundred ounces of aluminum, which was the most precious metal at the time. Right. and shortly after that, so it was expensive. It was it was sort of precious and that's why they put Col John: Uh-huh. Andy Sharma: it on Washing Washington National Monument. A decade after that, electrolysis was invented. And so they say that After electrolysis came came about, aluminum went from being highly precious to bo being something you, you know, aluminum foil where you put, you know, you wrap your sandwiches with aluminum foil and after you're done you just throw it away. so the example they said was aluminum is intelligence, electrolysis is AI, right? And with Col John: Okay. Andy Sharma: AI coming in, intelligence is gonna be so so common and easy to get that you you can sort of wrinkle it up and and throw it in the trash after that. And while it's a phenomenal opportunity for people on on the on The side of building tech or or investing in it. If if you were somebody who's worried about being displaced by that technology change, that's bad news for you. So it was just a I just looked at it from both angles and said, wow, this is a very stark example. And so that's sort of one example. The second example is we keep hearing leaders of of these big platform companies about how much ai is going to be impacting people's lives and jobs. So everybody Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: talks about how this is going to be a game changer. There's going to be mass unemployment up to 40-50% of the people, those jobs will go away and never return. Right. and it almost seems like it's the it's it's the the reverse of a pharmaceutical commercial. So if you listen to you know all these I mean cosentics, I mean what what have you, any any pharmaceutical drug, they they spend the first two minutes talking about the benefits and you know you see smiling faces everywhere. and then in the last you know maybe five seconds or ten seconds they talk about well it's it could also cause cancer, it could cause you know, multiple organ failure, but that's Col John: Right, right. Andy Sharma: that's never the highlight. And I I feel like we're we're doing the opposite of that. we we we you know we're the The platform companies, with the exception of one or two, a majority of them keep talking about how this is gonna be a bad thing for for the people. And I think we need stewardship, resilience and optimism. And as as we, you know, talk more, I'll give you some examples of how how I think that can be helpful. Col John: Wow. Well you you just you just had my mind run to a I've heard this a million times and I'm certain you've heard it also and that is that AI, that most of the Most of the efforts on AI in in business have not equaled the my word is they've failed. And this was ninety-five percent or better. and when you look at it it's it's businesses are running to AI, but what's the business case? What are you truly trying to accomplish? And and I loved, you know, just as I went through your introduction. You know, it's the thoughtful use of AI. So can you tell me about that and how that impacts that thoughtful use? Andy Sharma: A hundred percent. So this also goes back to what you said in the beginning. It's about a a leadership challenge versus a technology Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: challenge. I think it always it's all it's al it's always good to know what's out there. So there's a lot of great tools out there now that didn't exist six months ago, a year ago, two years ago, Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: three years ago, nothing existed, right? So this is all brand new. Started in November twenty twenty two. but there's a lot of excitement around it. But what's I believe and it's getting better. So that study you referenced happened maybe a year ago, and there was a lot of back and forth in terms of was the the the parameters of the study flawed. Regardless, I mean it it it sort of opened the book on something that that's that's an industry problem, which is everybody is we call it POC purgatory. So it's proof of concept and that's why you keep you kind of stuck in that cycle. the I think the the biggest thing is thinking through the use case. So let me give you an example. So in in healthcare, we always begin with first do no harm, right? That's that's the number one tenant. So patient safety is is paramount and everybody you know has that lens and and that aperture that which they're looking at every use case. So So that's an important one. But when you're when you're building a use case, it's about What what are you looking to do? Right? what how's it gonna help you move the needle? So is it gonna be a cost savings? It's important because if you if you're investing a million dollars in an AI solution and save, you know, five hundred dollars a year, that that's not gonna do it for you. So that that's that's something you gotta be thinking about. And then you gotta think about the people that are operating the AI. Is is it gonna make their lives easier? Is it gonna make Col John: Uh-huh. Andy Sharma: make it more complicated for them? and and And I I truly believe it's I my belief is, and that's where the optimism comes from, my belief is AI is ultimately ultimately gonna create more and and higher level jobs for people. In healthcare we call that operating at the top of your license. So physicians Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: can now spend more time with the patient and do the things that they truly want to do and and really get into, you know, what what's what's going on with with this person's chronic condition? Is it is it their lifestyle? Is it their sort of state of mind then that's causing them to not have better health results? So Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: I think it it's so there's a lot of dimensions that go into how do you build an AI solution, right? And it it varies from from case to case. but there's a few key elements like return on investment, like the usage, like Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: you know, sort of the softer side of are we improving people's lives, both patients and clinicians. or I mean and the same thing, you know, translates to any other industries too, you know, financial services, is it gonna Col John: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: improve the bankers life and the customer's life? if not, then you know, it's you shouldn't do it for the sake of implementing AI. I think Col John: Uh-huh. Andy Sharma: part of the issue is in the beginning a lot of people wanted to go implement AI because it's it's the shiny new penny. and Col John: Hm. Right. Andy Sharma: and I think reality is creeping in now. So people are getting quite serious about what they're investing in. Getting incredibly smart about the tools they use. So I think clients are and companies are getting very smart at adopting for sure. Col John: Well you know healthcare Healthcare doesn't allow for much room for error. so how do leaders balance that pressure to be innovative and still be res be responsible to protect the people they're serving? I I w how do they do that? I mean Andy Sharma: Yeah, yeah. F fair question. So what I've seen succeed the most is you you you pick something you want to do. A as an example, you if you're if if you're working with a physician and say, I'm gonna help you with differential diagnosis, right? Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: That is very I don't want to say it's error prone, but it it it has the th there's a chance that you may diagnose something wrong. patient's life could be impacted, right? So I typically advise people to stay away from those kind of scenarios. Instead, there is so this is a real life example. One of our so we were in the in the midst of doing sort of a a differential diagnosis AI implementation for a client. We mutually decided that, you know, we w nobody was ready for that. So maybe let's pivot and do something else. So what we ended up doing with them was work with a physician and the AI is is a personal companion to the physician. And physicians are busy and so they don't have time to do all the training they're supposed to do, not don't have the time to keep up with the most recent advances in in a certain field. So the AI companion's job is to get all that information and have a personal conversation with the physician. It also does something else. When the physician is with the, so it's it's also so it's doing the clinical side of the training, but it's also doing what we call, you know, sort of bedside manner training. So And the health system, the hospital system, would say, you know, this physician is amazing at what he does, but he kind of lacks in that that human touch, bedside manner angles. Maybe, Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: maybe if if and it's embarrassing to tell them in in you know face to face or in in a public setting. So, would it would it make sense for the AI to have a personal relationship with the physician and tell them that, hey, next time you're going to see the patient, I'm gonna be listening to everything. And they and the AI does that, right? So ambient listening is something AI does quite often and saves a lot of time and money for physicians. Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: But this AI actually listened for sort of the interaction between the patient and the physician. And after the after the encounter, the AI would have a conversation with the physician, say, hey, you know, great job on these three things, but you know, maybe next time ask him about this, this, and this, ask him about the family, ask him about, hey, last time you came Col John: Mm. Andy Sharma: here. So it's truly helping without jeopardizing somebody's health. So so you know, you you call it back office, call it non-patient-facing, non-clinical. So you sort of Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: begin with that, and and then you know, that sort of inspires confidence across the organization. So when you're implementing something like this, it has to integrate with existing IT systems within the health system. So those people have to get comfortable, the compliance people have to get comfortable, CEO, CFO, chief medical innovation officer, chief medical officer, everybody has to line up and say, yeah, this this makes sense. And so always we always begin with non-clinical, non-patient facing, and then slowly build up and get to a point where everybody's comfortable that a patient can talk to the AI too. Col John: Okay, because that leads me right into well, we you're pretty much answering it, is is how w how do you build the trust? How do you build that trust when you you're entire you're adopting something entirely new and particularly in healthcare, I healthcare more than anything else, how do you build that trust? And and you just talk through it, you start small. Andy Sharma: one thing and and this is something I've I've learned through years of consulting. So I I I spend a lot of time with Accenture. And and there we used to say intent is more powerful than technique. So as long as the client understands that your intent is to make him successful and to be helpful, they open open the doors for you to have a conversation, to to deploy solutions. If you go in in a in a self-serving manner, which and it's it's quite easy to identify that. then everybody shuts down. If you go in solving a problem together with the client with the right intent, I believe that that's that's number one way to earn trust. and we used to actually have even have have a equation that's the trust equation is the the numerator is credibility experience and the denominator is self-interest. So reduce self interest to almost to zero and you know, demonstrate that you've done it before, demonstrate that you know how the solution's gonna work and and the client and and I mean obviously intimacy with the client. And that that comes over time. So not nothing I don't think you can walk into a a client and and expect that to happen right away. But I believe Col John: Yeah, no. No. No. That's that's no you you you don't. people don't always evolve at the same pace as as technology. and let me just just a real quick, very short story. I was invited to New York State for a a they were having a huge event on the the impact on the economy. And technology. I mean, they're talking quantum, the AI, I mean, you name it. They were talking high-level stuff, you know, nuclear. They were talking all of the various energy forms in New York State. And I was invited. I was invited to come speak. And I laughed and I said, I I'm not a tech guy. I'm not I'm not that. and the the interesting part was I gave I gave a three-minute talk. Everybody else, the other other invited speakers all spoke for roughly 20 minutes. My talk lasted three. And it was basically this. technologies fail, but people fail much faster. And it's the leadership that fails fastest of all. And here it is. Technology is like a rocket ship, and it's moving like it's just stratospheric. It's moving. Leadership development is moving like this. I said one's on a rocket ship, the other's driving an EDSL. And it's it's that gap. That's where things go wrong, is the gap. You gotta close this gap. You're not gonna slow technology down, but you're gonna have to speed up your leadership. So that was technology does not slow down. Andy Sharma: I I love that, John. I and I I wholeheartedly agree with you. That that is that is such a great great way to think about it. especially especially Col John: Yeah, so Andy Sharma: today. Yeah. Col John: yeah. So how do you help your teams? How do you help your teams stay curious about being stay curious and not overwhelmed? To stay curious, to keep, to keep at it, to stay focused on, hey, we've got to catch up to this technology. We've got to use it to our benefit, to the benefit of our ser our the people we're serving. How do you do that without getting them overwhelmed? Andy Sharma: That's great question, especially right now because there's so much happening, right? So it seems like every day there's a new model, there's a new tool set. I mean th there's there's literally an arms race going on in AI where they're competing Col John: Yeah. Andy Sharma: with each other to come up with the best model. I'm sure you've you've heard some of the the the news out there. What we try to focus on is what what what are the clients caring about today, right? So it seemed like six months ago it was get me the fastest, the best solution. And the the belief was that AI costs will go down. Right. So we actually I remember distinctly putting together analysis for a client that said, today it's gonna cost you a thousand dollars a month, but the way the trajectory is, and I we give them proof points, within within a year it's gonna be 500 a month, right? and with with with great data that existed at the time. Well lo and behold, six months later what's happening today is AI prices are going up because it's people are finally catching up to the fact that it's takes a lot of money to build these expensive data centers to to set up these you you know GPU clusters that train and you know the training of the model, the inference models. so the the concept of token maxing, I don't know if you've you've come across that term at all, Colonel Boggs, that is causing the bills to s skyrocket. So we we we have a a key in ear to what the clients are looking for and the clients are clearly saying, well, we want to know how this this AI solution is gonna impact our expenditure going forward, right? Not just today. What was the trajectory looking like? So our focus is research on on that piece of it, right? And we don't have to deploy the most current models because the most more current a model is the more expensive it is. So we go with what's what's just right for doing this work for the client, right? And then I I guess a fundamental from a first principles basis, right, just go and break down the problem into sort of disaggregate the different pieces of the value chain of the problem and say what actually is is an AI solvable problem? Because not everything can be solved by AI. Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: and and what's been shocking for me is Only 20% of what we do is actually needs AI. Everything else is traditional coding. And but what was happening six months ago was everybody was just jumping in with both feet saying, let's let's and AI can solve everything, but it's you know, it's it's using and I I can't even think of the right metaphor here. I mean it's it it it's like using a bazooka instead of a a a nail or something, right? I mean it's Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: So really right sizing. So first listen to the client and and purely Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: understand. so in Accenture also we used say another thing that you and your client want the same thing, which is a solution that exactly meets their needs, right? Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: and once you arrive at that point. the client is happy because you're giving them a solution. You're happy because you're not wasting cycles in and coming up with different scenarios. You you've identified what they need and you you put together the the answer to that, right? So listen keenly to what the client is telling us and then come up with the right configuration of solutions. right. And and I know that doesn't really answer the question you asked, John. how do we how do we keep the key the teams engaged? I think I'm I'm gonna go back to something I learned a long time ago. You know, your your people will be engaged as long as you have their back, right? You c you can put pressure on them. You can you can tell them you can you can and I I do this with my children too. You know, push them to their to the most what they're capable of as long as long as they know you you're you're there for them, right? And that applies to your teams as well. Col John: Okay. looking ahead. The next decade will likely reshape healthcare dramatically. you know, I I just saw over the weekend I I saw an old Star Trek movie. And the doctor gave this lady a pill. She was why are you here? And she said, Well, you know, I I'm having kidney issues, I need a kidney transplant. And he's he went, A transplant? my god, that's terrible. Here, take this. And she took the pill and it turns out she grew another kidney. So talk about technology. But w what are the leadership qualities? What what leadership qualities do you believe will matter most as technology continues to advance? Andy Sharma: So I'm I'm gonna go back to the three that I talked about, Col John: Okay. Andy Sharma: John, and hopefully that answers the question. If it doesn't, please keep me honest. so my b strong belief is stewardship. And I I I'd like to draw from an example from you know, 200 years ago. So the the leaders of the industrial revolution actually were stewards in that they invested in in the country. Right. So you Rockefeller, Carnegie, Kodak or or Eastman family, right? They build hospitals, universities, libraries across the country, right? Really invested back in the community. I think the same thing needs to happen. I mean, we've got trillionaires in in our country now, that are probably doing some of that, but I don't know if they're doing enough to To you know, put back, I mean, these I mean the if you see the valuations of even the smaller AI companies, they're through the roof, right? So stewardship in in leading and being charitable and and investing in people around you is super important, I think. the second thing is resilience And that ha that has two implications. So as a leader, you yourself have to be resilient because the the the ground is shifting around under you and it's shifting under your teams, right? As a leader, I think what resilience means is empathy, humility. to really understand that what you believe today may not be true tomorrow. So and I've I've seen that happen myself with with AI, the things I used to do differently before. I d I I don't do the same things anymore. And and somebody taught me that and was like, my God, I mean I I was wasting all these hours doing this. But but with that, you you also have to have empathy around somebody's gonna get impacted by that. I've got somebody junior in my team that's no longer gonna have that role because now I'm using Claude for doing that, right? Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: What's my responsibility? My responsibility is to work with that individual and say, you know what, your job is getting upgraded. You're you're not doing the the grunt work, you know, bottom of the license type work. You're actually doing work that that's gonna be meaningful to you. It's gonna make you Smarter and use the same tools I'm using, but let's let's you know let's raise the bar for everybody Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: involved. So that's that's the resilience bit. the last thing is optimism. I I I really think leaders have to be optimistic about the future. You can't be saying this, you know, AI is gonna come in and destroy 40% of the jobs. You should be talking about if you're If you're implementing an AI solution, you know, there's gonna be five jobs created. You know, your prompt engineer, your use case. engineer, your human in the loop person, you know, so lots of different things. And I do that at every client I go go meet. So it's yes, it's gonna Col John: No. Andy Sharma: it's gonna save you a lot of money, but guess what? There's efficiency AI and and we're already doing that, but that gives you the the freedom to invest in opportunity AI, which is growing your your the pie for everybody in your organization. Right. So so I I think those three things. as far as healthcare goes, and and that that was at a generic level, healthcare I think the onus is on on the consultants and the clients, right? So the clients have to maybe think about approvals a little bit differently. And the approvals are so what's happening in healthcare right now is a lot of opportunities get stuck in medical legal review, the IRB boards. I it's a lot of different approval processes. And and maybe they need to be relaxed a little bit. just like for AI, the government is relaxing some standards, healthcare, but you know, only in the right cases. I mean if it's gonna impact patients, Col John: I don't know Andy Sharma: we gotta be super careful. We all have to be super careful. on the consultant side, I think we have to be very clear about articulating the value based on the client's needs, right? Again, Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: solution that exactly meets the client's needs is what what we gotta gravitate to. I I I hope that answered the question. I mean I I was Col John: Okay. It did. It it it did. Thank you very much. But but that leads me to this one. If you could give and you're still we're we're we're looking we're looking forward. So you've got these young leaders behind us. What advice would you give them about being prepared for the future? Andy Sharma: I it's the number one thing I would say, and I and I say this to my kids, l learn AI. It's the future. it's it's not it's not going away. look get get get deep into it. and it's what I found personally, and you know, I'm I'm not young, so it's not as easy for me to learn as as it used to be thirty, forty years ago. but i it is quite compelling and easy to learn. It it draws you in once you once you start engaging with it. there's lots you can do. if if you And the use cases go across the spectrum, right? So you don't have to be a coder, you don't have to be you know, an author. You can do a lot of things with AI to the the sky's the limit. So invest in learning it. and and use it as a coworker, as as a tool, because that's gonna magnify your chances of success going forward. Col John: Andy, as as you reflect on your career. What has working at this at this intersection? You've got healthcare, you've got innovation. Boom, man. I mean that's where you are. You're at that cross point. So what has that revealed about you as a leader? I mean that's a hell of a spot to be in. Andy Sharma: It is. It it sure is. I think it it's taught me the the the value of balance. Because if if you think about healthcare and innovation, I shouldn't say innovation, maybe technology, th they are in some ways they move at you know, they're they're some ways polar opposites in that they move at different speeds, right? So Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: the rocket ship that you mentioned before. and Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: healthcare is probably similar to leadership development as you'd mentioned before. So you know move slowly. it's a safe sort of a massive ship that takes time to turn, right? So they they're from a from a speed of adoption perspective, they're diametrically opposite. so so balancing those two things is super important, I think. what I what I've I I think what that's taught me is learn to listen. learn that the it's good to implement things quickly, but if you leave somebody behind. That's not good for anybody because at you you're gonna stumble at some point. So when I say about leave somebody behind, if if you're if you've got 17 stakeholder groups within a health system and two of them don't agree and you you decide to move forward anyway, that comes back to to disrupt the solution in the future. So you gotta you gotta have that consensus. And I know a lot of corporations don't work that way, but healthcare does, unfortunately. So take take the so listen, take the time to understand it. everybody's needs and then help them article you know, understand your your proposition. so it's made me a bit I guess a bit more patient in some ways. you know, a bit more intent driven. And that intent is to help you know, the who whoever my client is help them be successful. Col John: Mm-hmm. Andy Sharma: so yeah th those are the two things I think. Col John: Andy, thank you very much. I I greatly appreciate this. This has been truly wonderful. Thank you so much for this. Andy Sharma: Yeah, it's good. Col John: and and for everyone else that's listening out there, learn AI, get get the technology because it's it's not gonna slow down. And and and you don't wanna be you don't wanna be on the first lap and it's on the eighth lap. You gotta you gotta move quicker than that. Andy, how do p people reach out to you? How do they find you? Or can we stop here and tell us a little bit about your company, what you do and and maybe how people can reach out to you or an and and learn more? Andy Sharma: Yeah, yeah, you know, LinkedIn is the the best place to get a hold of me, John. I I do post a lot on AI, responsible AI. company's right on there as well. So LinkedIn would be the the best way to do it. but I I do want to thank you for this opportunity. I've really enjoyed speaking with you. And I so I'm an army brat and I've always believed soldiers make the best leaders. So it's it's a privilege to Col John: Yeah. Andy Sharma: meet you. Col John: Thank you. Thank you very much. Well, hey Andy again, thank you very much. Thank you for being here. And for everyone else, I'll see you next week. remember leadership is too important to get wrong. So and if you need you're in healthcare, particularly if you're in healthcare, you might want to reach out to Andy if you if you are falling behind or feel you're falling behind in the world of AI and technology, Andy's a good spot, good place for you to get started. All right, folks, that's it on this end. be safe. Talk to you next week. Out here.