Latest / Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast / [Kentucky] Double Jeopardy & The Polaroid Confession of Mel Ignatow

Transcript

[Kentucky] Double Jeopardy & The Polaroid Confession of Mel Ignatow · Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome to Bless This Message, your current podcast.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I'm Carrie, here with Stu. Say hey, Stu. Hey. All right,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: we are back on the porch. Stu, we're on a
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: new porch.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: We are.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: We are. We are in our new house, new to
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: us house. And we are settling in, so the sound
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: may be a little different right now until we get
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: everything worked out. But we have officially moved. We are
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: no longer in West Texas Purgatory.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: We're in East Texas Purgatory.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: We're in East Texas Purgatory. It's not Purgatory, Stuart, okay?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: But there's a lot of things I didn't appreciate until
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: we've come back here, even though we've been here a
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: couple days. I wanted to cry watching all the trees
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: as I was driving south. With all those children as
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: the trees progressively got bigger and fuller.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: And more abundant.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Yes. So we are here during the hottest month of
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the year. Before everybody's like, oh, well, humidity is going
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: to get you guys. Three years ago we lived here. Yes,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: we lived in this area. I'd like to just say
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: everybody that I tell them I'm moving from Midland down
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: here to the Houston area, they're like, oh, man, it's
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: a dry heat up there. That humidity, that's rough and everything.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I want to be like, shut the fuck up. At
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: this point, that's what I want to say to them.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: I grew up in East Texas. I grew up an
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: hour and a half from here. Stu grew up in Louisiana.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: We lived in Louisiana for 14 years. It's humid in Louisiana.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: You know where it's really humid? The Everglades, okay?
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, we were just there.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Ain't nobody got nothing on them, okay? Because we were
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: there in May, and it was 10 times worse than
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: it is even here in August.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: Definitely got the swamp ass down there.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's rough down there. So you and the Everglades,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: you win, all right? So yeah, so we are officially
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: in our new house on our new theoretical porch. So
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: we want you to grab your mason jars, pull up
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: a rocking chair, and let's get settled in because we
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: are headed up to Kentucky.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Today we're covering a case out of Louisville, Kentucky that
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: completely rocked the legal world in the 1980s and early 1990s.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: It begins with a car mysteriously abandoned on the shoulder
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: of Interstate 64 and turns into a multi-year investigation involving
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: secret graves, wiretaps, and one of the most unbelievable twists
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: you'll ever hear regarding constitutional law and hidden evidence.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, this is a crazy case. And it has to
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: do with one of my favorite movies of all time,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: which is Double Jeopardy.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, I thought you were going to say Monty Python
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: and the Quest for the Holy Grail.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: No, I was not going to say that. But before
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: we get into it, here's a quick reminder of our
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: weekly schedule. On Mondays, we step outside the South for
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: our Little Less Mess minisodes, and Thursdays are for these
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: full-length episodes that come across the main feed. Now, if
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: you want to get the Thursday episodes early and ad-free,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: plus our Friday bonus show, Sit and Sippin' and Bullshittin',
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: come join our Patreon family. You can also help keep
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: the porch light on by visiting our Buy Me A
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Coffee page to treat us to a sweet tea or
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: maybe something a little stronger.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: A little harder.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a little stronger.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Hard tea.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Yes. Now, while you're at it, make sure you're following
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: us on TikTok, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. And then this
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: is where I share our dinners each night, which I
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: have been taking a break because we were all on
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: the DoorDash train and it was just moving. It was
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: all just too much, so I took a little break.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: But I'm back. I'm cooking tonight. So you guys can
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: check out. By the time you hear this, I'll have
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: started up again. So definitely go check it out. I
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: usually share the recipes and everything. And then I also
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: do true crime documentary recommendations.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: As always, the absolute best free way to support the
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: show is to take a second to rate, review, and
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: subscribe wherever you're listening right now.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Yes, and Stu checks these reviews more frequently than I
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: do because I can't handle all the negativity.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Yes. All the negativity.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: Well, no, it's just like, I understand. There'll be like
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: 10 good reviews, and then all of a sudden someone
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: will be like, one star. How dare these people? You suck.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: You suck. But Stu does check them. He gets excited
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: when he sees the number change. So you guys go
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: try to give Stu some excitement in his life, because
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I'm certainly not giving him any.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: No, you're not. It doesn't give me that much excitement, though.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: But it does. Don't try to downplay it.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Why?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: We need to encourage them to write reviews, Stuart.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: It's been eight months since we got one. We haven't
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: even cracked 1,000 reviews yet.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I know. What happened? We were doing.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Some podcasts have like half a million.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: It started at the same time. Okay.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Well, they're bigger than us. Anyways.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is that what happened was I
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: think it's because it's Apple Podcasts. Not everybody listens on
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: there anymore. Now Spotify really competes. Things like that. You know,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: you can listen to it.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: I have not checked reviews on Spotify.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So that's why we say wherever. Not sure if
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I have that. I feel like Apple Podcasts used to
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: be the only game in town, and now Spotify is really.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was iTunes, then now it's Apple Podcasts.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Because Spotify actually pays some podcasts to just be on
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: their feed. Like, they paid, I think, last podcast and left, like,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: a bunch of money just to be on Spotify. And
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Joe Rogan, I think, was paid a lot of money
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: for a while to be a Spotify one. All right,
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: so let's just grab those mason jars and let's get
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: into it. How about that, Stu?
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: How about you do that?
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I got my mason jar. I'm having a little afternoon delight.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: You are now, aren't you?
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: No, by myself. On Saturday morning, September 24th, 1988, motorists
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: traveling along Interstate 64 near the Snyder Freeway on the
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: eastern outskirts of Louisville, Kentucky, noticed a light blue sedan
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: sitting awkwardly on the shoulder. I wonder if Snyder, is
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: that where Snyder.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: Pretzels are from? I am not aware.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I love a Snyder pretzel. I feel like they're... for
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: some reason I feel like that's where they're from, but
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: maybe not. Maybe they're from Pennsylvania.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I feel you just sprung this question on me.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Um, this, the V you, well, you have a phone
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: you could look up. That's what you told me last time.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: I had a question about, Oh, cause I messed up
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: on the dang. That was it. Christy helped me out.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Cause I was, I was thinking it was like a
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: big last time I was thinking it was a big, uh,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: mountain range and it was the smoky mountains is what
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I was thinking of when I said Rocky mountains. And
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I knew that was wrong. The minute I said it,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: do you remember that? Yes.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was a smoky mountain. So, I really want
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: to go there. That seems Gatlinburg, all that. I really
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: want to take a trip there. I don't know how
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: far we are, though. Probably probably quite some ways, but
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: closer than we were before. So that's a that's a plus.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: All right. So the sedan was completely empty. One tire
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: was noticeably soft, Stu, and the emergency flushers were not
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: turned on. That car belonged to 36 year old Brenda
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Sue Schaefer. Brenda was a well-respected hairstylist and receptionist in Louisville.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: When she failed to arrive for her scheduled clients on
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Saturday morning and was not answering calls at home, her
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: brothers immediately reported her missing to the Louisville and Jefferson
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: County Police Departments because this would not have been like
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: her to just not be responsible, not show up.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Those close to Brenda described her as dependable, deeply religious, family-oriented,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: and punctual. She was exceptionally close with her mother and siblings,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: and it was entirely out of character for her to
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: leave her vehicle unattended on the side of the interstate
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: without contacting anybody.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she would have had to get help, you know. Yes.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: When detectives arrived to inspect the vehicle on the highway's shoulder,
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the interior was intact. Her purse, wallet, keys, and driver's
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: license were gone. but there were no obvious signs of
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: a physical struggle or broken glass. To an initial responder,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: it looked like a standard roadside breakdown, where a stranded
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: motorist might have accepted a ride from a passing driver.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: Because everybody remember, this is 1988, okay? Things were different.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: If you broke down on the side of the road,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: I don't even know what I would do right now
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: if I didn't have a phone and I broke down
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: on the side of the road.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Never throwing a thumb out there to get a ride?
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not throwing a thumb out there to get
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: a ride, Stu, okay? I just don't know what you
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: would even do. Like, what would you do in current
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: times if you had no phone and no way to
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: get a hold of anybody?
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Can't walk to a payphone.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: No, you can't. I mean, you could walk to, I
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: don't even know. I don't even know.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: A place that has a phone.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but what if you were out in the middle
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: of nowhere?
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Everybody has a phone.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, but if you flag someone down, you take the
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: chance of being murdered, okay?
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a chance you gotta take. Or if you're
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: in the Everglades with no phone and no phone service,
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: then you take a chance at getting eaten by an alligator.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're screwed out there. We drove down there. That's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: why I was saying the Everglades in May because we
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: drove down there. And, man, it is. You guys are
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: remote down there. If you get out there in it.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: You break down out there, you may or may not
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: have phone service.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: You're just going to have to take your chances with
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: the passing motorists not being a serial killer.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: And the alligators. Or the alligators.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: Or the alligators.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Or just die from a heat stroke because it was
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: that hot out there.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was terrible.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: But the smallest post office in the country is out
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: there that we stopped by. But it was closed whenever
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: we went, so we couldn't mail a letter or anything
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: like that. But we did take a picture with it.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: However, when detectives sat down with Brenda's family later that afternoon,
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: the idea of a random roadside abduction began to fall apart.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Brenda's brothers informed investigators that Brenda had not been driving
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: alone to an appointment the night before. She had left
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: home on Friday evening I would say Ignato. Ignato?
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: Well, he was known to everybody as Mel, so from henceforth,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: it will be Mel. Oh.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: No, because I wrote last names in this. Ignato, because
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: I think that's like a... Ignato, he sounds like a.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to change it to Mal.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: He sounds like a... Ignato sounds like somebody on the kids,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: like Spidey and Friends, one of the villains. Professor Ignato. Oh,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: 50-year-old and a 36-year-old student? Seems like we've known something
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: A little something, something, something.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Yes. All right, Brenda's family explained that Brenda and Mel
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Ignato had been dating for approximately two years. Ignato was
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: an industrial equipment salesman who presented himself as an upscale, successful,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and sophisticated aristocrat. No, businessman. Around Louisville. You think he
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: got a pipe and a top hat? Looks like the
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: guy from Monopoly.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: You think?
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Yes. He wore tailored suits, see, drove luxury cars, and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: belonged to prominent local clubs.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Behind that charming exterior, however, Brenda had discovered an increasingly
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: volatile and controlling personality. Over the preceding months, Ignato, Ignato, Ignato, Mel,
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: had become intensely possessive, monitoring where she went and demanding
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: explanations for her daily schedule.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Sounds like what I do is stupid.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, in reverse. Because I am the arm candy in
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: this relationship. Realizing the relationship was unhealthy, Brenda made the
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: decision to call off their engagement and return the jewelry
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: and personal gifts that he had given her.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Well, that was mighty nice of her because I wouldn't
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: return jack shit. No, you wouldn't. I'd be like, you
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: gave it to me. No takesies, backsies.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: I earned it.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: I did earn it. On the evening of Friday, September 23rd,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Brenda agreed to meet Ignato at a public shopping center
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: in Louisville. Her plan was clear. Return that jewelry, exchange
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: a few personal belongings, and make a clean final break.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: And that was the last time anyone in her family
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: ever saw her alive. So she was doing what she
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: felt like was safe by meeting in a public area.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: But again, this is 1988, so there's probably not security
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: cameras everywhere. I don't know, I was barely alive.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: You just gotta hope some witnesses were around.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but she was going to like a, you know,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: a busy place, a shopping center.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Within hours of the missing persons report, detectives brought Mel
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: in for an interview. He appeared composed, calm, and cooperative.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: He readily confirmed that he had met Brenda in the
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: shopping center parking lot on Friday evening to exchange the jewelry.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: All I can see now is the Monopoly guy, like,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: with his jewels. He's at Park Place Avenue. He's on
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: the boardwalk.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. All right.
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: Within... That's not my part. Ignato told detectives that they
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: sat inside his car for roughly 30 minutes, talked amicably,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: and parted ways without an argument. Bullshit. He claimed he
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: watched Brenda walk back to her car, drive out of
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: the parking lot, and head toward the highway. He expressed
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: deep concern over her disappearance and offered to help police
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: in any way possible. So he's cooperative at this point.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: A monopoly man.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Detectives were immediately suspicious of Mel's claims. Brenda's family emphasized
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: that she was genuinely afraid of him and would not
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: have lingered for a casual, friendly chat.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: If she's not willing to meet him at his house,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: or have him come to her house, and you're meeting
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: in a shopping center, there's no way she's just going
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: to willingly get in his car for half an hour
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: with him. If she's afraid of him to the level
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: where she needs to meet in a public space, then
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: she's not going to agree to just get in his car.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: She's going to be like, I'll hand the stuff over,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: you hand me my stuff, and let's go.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Yes. A search of her personal notes confirmed her growing
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: apprehension in the weeks before the breakup.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: You know, we're really doing a disservice to the southern
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: people with us not being able to read, you know.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Just reinforcing that stereotype.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: It's like on the news when they pick, like, the
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: most country person on the planet to do the interview,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, that's the one we're going to play.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: My brother, sister.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Yes. Police obtained search warrants for Ignato's home on Manoma
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Drive in suburban Louisville, as well as his vehicle's. Forensic
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: teams processed every process.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: Words are hard.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Processed. I'm good at math.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Processed every area looking for fingerprints, biological evidence, carpet fiber, fiber.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: What is wrong with us? It's because we're recording during
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: the day. We're not good at this. Carpet fibers or
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: signs of a violent struggle. However, the initial searches turned
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: up no physical evidence tying Ignato to a crime.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Without a confirmed crime scene, without physical forensic evidence, and
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: without a body, authorities could not legally hold or charge Mel.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: The disappearance quickly captured the attention of local and regional
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: media across Kentucky. Billboards were erected, search parties combed local
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: parks and woods, but weeks stretched into months with no
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: substance of breakthroughs, Kara.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: Breakthroughs.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Breakthroughs.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: Now, for over a year, the case remained a painful
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: standstill for Brenda's family. And it's probably very frustrating for
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: her family because they're probably like, we know who did this.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: We know who the main suspect is.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like he was the last one to be
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: with her, but without anything to go in and keep
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: pushing him, there's really not much they can do about it.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I mean, he says he was the last one, and
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: then T tells him she walked off into the sunset, basically.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: But without anything tying him to it, they got their
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: hands tied. Now, despite the public silence, detectives from the
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Jefferson County Police Department and agents from the FBI continued
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: quietly investigating Ignato's background, financial records, and long-distance phone call
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: logs from the fall of 1988. Because you had to
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: pay for them long-distance calls.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, you did.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: You did not accept a number. Even when I was
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: a kid, you did not accept a number from another.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: I didn't accept.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Like on the cell, whenever we had the cell phones.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: You could accept them as long as you wanted to
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: make them. Yeah, they paid them.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: If they were calling you, if you were calling long distance.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, maybe we didn't call long distance because it would
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: be like double the minutes it would use up.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Or you had to get a long distance calling card.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: Remember you had to go to the gas station?
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Or you had to get a plan that covered long distance.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Well, most of the time I remember having to go
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: get the calling cards from the gas station. And you
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: went and bought minutes. Yes. I may or may not
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: have had some family members in jail.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah? Yes. Close to you?
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, Stuart. Close to me. I didn't have a charmed
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: childhood like you did.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: Yes. During their detailed audit of phone calls.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Does detailed count?
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Drink.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Of toll records, investigators noticed repeated unusual calls between Mel
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: and 38-year-old former employee and ex-girlfriend... by the name of
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Mary Ann Shore. Shore lived alone in a secluded, heavily
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: wooded property on Poplar Level Road in South Louisville.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm jealous. A heavily wooded, secluded property. I would
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: love that. Detectives placed Shore under surveillance and brought her
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: in for questioning in late 1989. Shore was emotionally unstable,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: socially isolated, and heavily infatuated with Ignato. At first, she
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: attempted to shield him, claiming she knew nothing about Brenda
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Schaefer's disappearance and reinforcing his alibi. So we got us
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: a stage five clinger here. That's going to go to
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: bat for old Mel Ignato, the Monopoly man.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: That's what it sounds like. Over multiple rounds of intense questioning,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: detectives began confronting Shore with direct discrepancies in her timeline
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: and phone records. Under sustained pressure, Shore's composure collapsed, Karah.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: In early January 1990, nearly 16 months after Brenda disappeared,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Shores confessed that Brenda had been murdered and that she
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: had assisted Mel in the crime.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: There's always a weak link. You can't have more than
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: one person involved or someone's going to break.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: What Shores revealed to investigators was a chilling, premeditated plot.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: She stated that when Brenda ended the engagement in August 1988...
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Ignato refused to accept the rejection and recruited Shore to
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: help him carry out a calculated plan of revenge, which
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: is crazy because he got his basically ex-girlfriend to help,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: and she was still so infatuated with him, to help
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: take out his current girlfriend.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what if she would have been so infatuated she
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: killed him to keep him from going around?
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, that's their logic sometimes.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: That irony would have been.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: If I can't have you, nobody can.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: The irony would have been great if she would have
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: killed him after the fact.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Be like, oh, you're not going to stay with
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: me after I did all this? All right, we're done.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Over the course of several weeks leading up to the murder, Ignato, Ignato, Ignato, Mel,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: and Shore prepared Shore's Poplar-level road home.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Poplar. Not popular. Poplar.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: I didn't say popular. I said Poplar.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Sound a lot like popular.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: I think you were being a little too controlling.
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Like Ignato. Ignato had Shore soundproof the basement. Weeks
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: before Brenda went missing, Ignato and Shore took shovels into
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: the dense woods behind her property and dug a deep,
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: concealed grave. I can't believe this.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Bitch just went along with all this stuff. This is insane. Women,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: do better, okay?
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: He had her on the hook.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: The Monopoly man?
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Had her on the hook.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Ignato gathered specific supplies. Specific supplies. Say that ten times fast.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Specific supplies.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Specific supplies. including industrial ropes, rolls of duct tape, chloroform,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: and a Polaroid camera, which we have recently purchased, too. Yes.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: When we had the baby. I was like, let's go back.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: That's what you said it's for. Yeah. Could be my murder, though.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: It could be. I might want some mementos. On the
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: night of September 23, 1988, when Brenda met Ignato in
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the parking lot, he convinced her to step into his
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: car under the guise of taking a brief drive to talk.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: Instead.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: He drove her straight to Shore's residence.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: When Brenda realized where she was and tried to flee,
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Ignato pulled a gun and forced her inside the home.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: In the basement, Ignato and Shore bound Brenda's hands and feet,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: blindfolded her, and taped her mouth. Over the course of
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: the night, Ignato subjected Brenda to severe physical and sexual abuse.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Which again is crazy that this... woman decided to help
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: him with this. But we've seen this before, though. There's
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: been plenty of times that there's been a female accomplice
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: to some sort of sexual crime.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Some deviant behavior.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Shore admitted that Ignato instructed her to use the Polaroid
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: camera to take photographs documenting the torture. Afterward, Ignato pressed
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: a rag soaked in chloroform over Brenda's face until she
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: died of asphyxiation.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: In the early morning hours of September 24th, Ignato and
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Shore wrapped Brenda's body in plastic sheeting and a sleeping bag,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: carried her into the woods behind the house, and buried
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: her in the pre-dug grave.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Which this is absolutely insane because she broke up with
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: him and didn't want to be engaged to him.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: Because he was a psycho.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Because he's a psycho. Yes. This is what he does.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: Because he's a psycho.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: I know, but I just still can't. These women, like
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: you can't go and. help this guy do this.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: This is crazy well brenda i wish she had um
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: listened to her instincts a little more than getting in
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: the car with him well she.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Did listen to her instincts she thought she was doing
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: i mean she this.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Is like you last week whenever you left the door
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: open for the old handy guy mark came in and
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: had a lapse of close the door and.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: I had a lapse of judgment it happens to us
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: too she was like okay i'm not gonna start i
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: don't want to she she probably met him there She
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to start an argument. He
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: wants me to sit in the car and take a drive.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: But she never thought he would do, like, this is
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: next level of crazy.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Psychopathic. Yes. Ignato then drove Brenda's car to Interstate 64,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: let the air out of a tire, and abandoned it
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: on the shoulder to stage a roadside abduction.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: On January 10, 1990, Mary Ann Shore led forensic teams,
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: homicide detectives, and FBI agents into the wooded area behind
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: her house. In the exact spot she indicated, investigators excavated
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: the grave and recovered Brenda Sue Schaefer's remains.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Because 16 months had elapsed since the burial, Brenda's body
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: was in an advanced state of decomposition. While dental records
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: did confirm her identity, the degradation of the remains destroyed
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: soft tissue injury markers and biological DNA that could forensically
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: link Ignato.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Ignato.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Ignato. Directly to the homicide. Well, there's tow. T-O-W at
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: the end. Well, we can just... Tow?
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Yes. Ignato. Ignato. Dr. Demento.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Yes. Okay.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: To establish conclusive proof of Ignato's guilt before making... Who
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: cares what we call him? He's a fucker, okay? Let's
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: call him the name like.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Fuckerhead.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Yes. Investigators fitted Ann Marianne. She's a bitch, too. Marianne
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: Shore with a concealed audio recording device. Shore arranged a
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: meeting with Ignato under the pretense that she was panicking
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: because police were searching her property.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: During the recorded conversation, Shore pressed Ignato about the investigation.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Ignato's words made it clear that he had intimate knowledge
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: of the crime. He aggressively warned Shore to keep quiet,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: coaching her on maintaining their false timeline and stating that
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: without her cooperation, the police had no case. Crucially, however,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Ignato never explicitly said the words, I murdered Brenda on
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: the recording.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Now, following the recovery of the body and the wiretap recording,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: prosecutors formally indicted Mel Ignato for capital murder, kidnapping, rape,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: and sodomy. Now, again, remember this is 1988, so I'm
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: sure what they could pull off that body that they
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: found was limited.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Marianne Shore entered a plea deal agreeing to testify as
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the state's star witness in exchange for pleading guilty to
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: tampering with physical evidence which carried a maximum sentence of
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: five years. This bitch should have really rotted in jail.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Fried.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, because she took Polaroid pictures. She soundproofed the basement.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, this was more than just.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Well, they don't have the Polaroids, I guess.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: Well, we're going to get to that, Stu, okay? Again,
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Stu's never in the know, okay? But we're going to
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: get to the Polaroids. But to me, Marianne did more
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: than just, it's not like she just drove the getaway car.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: You know, like when you see somebody that pleads guilty,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, well, I drove the getaway car or
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Everybody just jumps in the car and they say drive.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: Or I like help bury the body or something like that.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: She did all the premeditation work ahead of time as well.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't just I did this like last
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: final thing. He showed up with his body in his
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: trunk and he's like, hey, I got to. She knew
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: ahead of time he was going to murder her. She
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: took pictures of the whole entire thing. I don't think
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: she should have been allowed to get off with just
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: a plea deal of five years of tampering with evidence.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: That's ridiculous. She should have at least been gone for
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: 20 years.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: Then they wouldn't have had a cooperation, quite possibly.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Well, as you're going to see, that didn't fucking matter, Stu, okay?
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: It did not.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: No.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Because of massive pretrial publicity throughout Louisville and Jefferson County...
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: The defense was granted a change of venue. The trial
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: was moved more than 100 miles north to Covington in
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Kenton County, Kentucky, where potential jurors had little prior exposure
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: to the case.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: The trial commenced in late 1991. The prosecution built its
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: case primarily around the wiretap audio and Shor's eyewitness testimony.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: But when Shore took the stand, the state's case faced
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: immediate catastrophe.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Not catastrophe.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Like the Lindsay Clancy case.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: On the witness stand, Shore appeared erratic, hostile, and detached.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: She smiled and giggled inappropriately during serious questioning, wore flamboyant
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: and revealing outfits, and clashed openly with defense attorneys.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: You know, because I knew this bitch was like a
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: crazy person. Let me just say, I know this doesn't
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: all come back to Kelly Clarkson, like we say. It
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: all comes back to Lindsay Clancy. I just want to
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: put this in here real quick. Remember I told you
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: that there was a woman that was on TikTok, and
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: she talked about her time working at this mental institution
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: that Lindsay went to, and she was saying, hey, all
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: these things about them saying that they had therapy every
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: day wasn't true. So I told you the defense was like, hey, well,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: we need this person to come and testify for us.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: This bitch gets on the stand. He said, so you're
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: from Boston or whatever the town was or whatever that
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: it was in. And she's like, yes, I'm from Boston,
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: but I summer in, she said, I summer in, name
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: one of these snooty Nantucket places or whatever. And she's like,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: I'm spoiled like that. She is on the most, like,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: televised criminal case currently going on. And this is what
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: she says. Anyway, she got prevented from being a witness.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: The judge struck her down or whatever the hell the
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: terminology is. But can you believe that, that she's on
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: there going like, well, I summer in Nantucket because I'm
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: spoiled like that. Who says that? And then the defense
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: attorney's like, so you're from, you live in whatever the
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: town is that they're in or whatever. Mm-hmm. And she's like, yes.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: But why would you say that? Anyways, she wasn't quite
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: as bad as this, but it was reminiscent of like,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: how are you on the stand saying this? This is
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: not a time to be funny or be like, oh,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: I'm posh and everything like that. It was just stupid.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: So that was our sidebar on that?
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, that was the sidebar on that.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Anyway, back to our case here. Notto's defense team capitalized
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: on this, arguing to the jury that Shore was a
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: jealous unstable woman who had committed the murder herself and
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: was framing Ignato to avoid the electric chair.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: Of course she's unstable. Even if she just helped this guy,
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: she's unstable doing this. Because forensic evidence on Brenda's decomposed
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: remains could not independently place Ignato in the basement or
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: at the burial site, The jury only had Shore's testimony
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: to rely upon. On December 22, 1991, the Kenton County
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: jury returned a verdict of not guilty on all counts,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: which is super frustrating for Brenda's family because they know.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I think everybody knows. Mel Ignato walked out of the
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: courtroom a free man.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: He's acquitted.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, because he's gone to trial. It's not like a
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: hung jury or anything like that. Or they never brought charges.
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: He went through a trial. They said, you did it.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: A jury of his peers said, no, you didn't. And
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: he walks out a free man. He's done.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: They can't bring him back. They can't bring him back.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: New evidence appears.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Like I said, my favorite movie, not my favorite, one
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: of my favorite movies, Double Jeopardy.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Following his acquittal, Mel returned to Louisville. And in order
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: to pay his substantial legal defense bills, he sold his
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: home on Manoma Drive to a new family.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I've got to say, every penny he spent on
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: that defense was worth it. Was worth it. Although, I
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: don't think he had to do much. He probably could
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: have used a public defender because old Marianne Crazy Eyes
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: was such a bad.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: With her boobs hanging out, I'm guessing.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: It's almost like the Lindsay Clancy trial. It's like she
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: probably doesn't even need a defense attorney. The prosecution with
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: her bows are doing all the damage. God's work for her. Yes.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: So, in October 1992, 10 months after the.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Murder acquittal, The new homeowners hired a carpet installer to
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: replace the carpeting in the master bedroom and hallway. While
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: preparing the floor in the master bedroom, the installer lifted
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: a metal air conditioning vent cover to cut the carpet
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: around the opening.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: As one would do.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: This is my... Remember when we were doing the.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Oh my God. What do you think we'll find in
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: this house?
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: It's been here since 1979. It's been here a long time.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: Which seems like... 1979 doesn't seem that long ago, but
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: it's a long time ago nowadays. I think it might
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: be considered a historical marker at this point. No, I
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: always wanted to, remember when we were redoing the, when
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: we did the bathroom, I wanted to put that fake
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: skeleton in the wall and plaster it in in case
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: somebody ever redid it and then they would open up
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: the wall, find a skeleton, put a sign next to
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: it that says help me or something like that. Yeah,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: that would have been fun. But, This was not fun, Stu,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: what they found.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: No, it was not. Inside the ductwork, taped securely just
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: below the floorboards against the metal interior of the vent,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: the worker discovered a plastic bag. Inside that bag was
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: a jewelry case containing Brenda Schaefer's missing rings and necklace,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: the exact jewelry she had taken to return to Mel
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: on the night that she vanished.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Alongside the jewelry was an envelope containing developed and undeveloped
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: polaroid photographs when police were summoned and processed the images
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: the reality was indisputable the photo showed brenda shaffer tied
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: to the glass table in shore's basement gagged and undergoing
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: torture in several photographs mel ignato's face hands and distinctive
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: jewelry were clearly visible i mean it was horrific what
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: he did to her he didn't just He didn't just
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: take her out. He tortured her for hours on end
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: before he finally took photos.
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: While old Mary Ann was taking photos.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: Like she's fucking Anna Leibovitz or something like that.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: The photographs provided absolute conclusive proof of everything Mary Ann
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Shore had testified to during the trial. Mel was undeniably
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: the mastermind and perpetrator of Brenda's murder.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: The discovery provoked immediate public outrage, with community members demanding
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: Ignato be arrested and put back on trial for murder.
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: You guys, y'all done.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Y'all done effed it up.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, we.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess they didn't do a proper search of
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: the house, get a warrant for a search.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I feel like they should have been looking
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: in things. I feel like on every police drama I see,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: they're like pulling up vans.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: And everything like that. You have some dust up underneath
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: this cabinet here.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: However, prosecutors ran directly into the Fifth Amendment of the
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: United States Constitution.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Under the Double Jeopardy Clause, no person can be tried
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: twice for the same offense by the same sovereign once
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: an acquittal has been rendered by a jury. Even with
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: undeniable photographic proof and a clear confession, the Commonwealth of
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Kentucky was legally barred from ever charging Mel with Brenda
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Schaefer's murder ever again.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: I guess the only way he could have been... charged
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: was if it had been you know like if it's
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: a hate crime or something like that it goes up
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: to federal so the state might have found him not
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: guilty but the the feds could go after him determined
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: to see him incarcerated federal and state like i was
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: saying federal and state prosecutors pursued perjury charges because there's
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: always something you fucked up on you know yeah there's
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: always something um because what they get the unabomber on
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: was like Mail fraud or wire fraud or something like that?
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Maybe it wasn't the unibody. It was somebody else. Well,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know they got the.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Well, they got Al Capone on tax evasion.
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, they find something. During his 1991 murder
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: trial and preceding grand jury sessions, Ignato had testified under
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: oath that he had never touched Brenda, had never held
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: her against her will, and had never been inside Marianne
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: Shore's house with her, which was all clearly lies. Lies.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: In late 1992, federal prosecutors indicted Mel on two counts
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: of perjury for lying before a federal grand jury. Confronted
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: with the unassailable photographic evidence, Mel pleaded guilty. In federal court,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: he formally confessed under oath to the abduction, torture, and
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: murder of Brenda Schaefer.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: The federal judge sentenced Ignato to eight years and one
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: month in federal prison, the statutory maximum. Upon his release
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: from federal custody in 1997, state prosecutors immediately charged him
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: with two counts of state perjury for false statements made
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: in state depositions. He was convicted and sentenced to an
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: additional nine years as a persistent felony offender, ultimately serving
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: nearly a decade total behind bars, which he should have
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: been serving life or got the death penalty. Yes.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: In December 2006, at age 70, Mel was released from
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Eastern Kentucky Correctional Complex and he moved back to Louisville.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: Brave. Bold move, Cotton. Bold move.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Let's see how this works out for you. Living in
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: a small house only a few miles from the Schaefer family.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: That shouldn't even be allowed. That should not even be allowed.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: To move in next to the family. He's done his time. No.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: He's paid his dues to society.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Oh my God.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: As they would say.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Ignato lived out his remaining years as a total pariah. Obviously,
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, I would have just moved to a different town.
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: We don't know who he is. He could have moved here.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: He could have moved.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Could be the guy across the street that brought us fish.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know. We don't know.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: He could have done anything. Neighbors protested in front of
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: his home. Local businesses refused him entry. I mean, I'm
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: glad this happened. I'm glad he went to Louisville and
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: they were like, fuck you. We're not helping you. We're
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: not going to serve you nothing. And his residence was
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: frequently vandalized. He remained completely isolated.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: On September 1, 2008, nearly 20 years after Brenda disappeared,
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Mel's son found him dead inside his home. An investigation
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: and autopsy by the Louisville Metro Police confirmed that Mel
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: had tripped and fallen inside his living room, striking his
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: head on a glass coffee table, and suffering fatal blunt trauma.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Police ruled the death entirely accidental.
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: Was it though, Steve? That seems a little.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: I think if I was the Schaefer family, I would
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: go push that motherfucker into that glass table and call
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: it a day. But whatever. I don't really care what
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: happened to him. He's a terrible person. The Brenda Schaefer
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: case remains one of the most significant and sobering legal
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: studies in American history regarding evidence. Witness credibility and the
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: rigid boundaries of the double jeopardy clause, which I don't know,
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: besides the movie, this is the only case I had
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: heard of that, well, I hadn't heard of it until
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: I looked into it, but that has.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: No, I got another one for you.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, you do?
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Is it a movie or real life?
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: It's real life. I was going to put it together.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: It involves the death of some children, though.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Okay. Is it in the South?
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: No, I think it would have to be like a
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: road trip episode of such.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Maybe it would be a road trip Patreon episode or something.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: Maybe.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: Maybe we'll do that. Brenda's family spent decades advocating for
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: crime victims, ensuring that Brenda is remembered for her warmth, faith,
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: and devotion to her loved ones, rather than simply as
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: a part of a legal loophole.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is terrible, but the fact is that
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: that's why sometimes I think The public gets upset with
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: the prosecution or investigators when they take a really long
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: time to arrest somebody. And it's like they're trying to
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: make sure they have all their ducks in a row
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: because they don't want to do it before too soon.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Don't want to end up like this.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Because then you end up with this guy that's gotten
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: off and spent a decade in jail and then was free. Thankfully,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: he only lived about less than two years after he got...
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: out because he fell. I mean, whoever did that, we
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: appreciate you doing a service to the community. Sorry about
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: that noise. We had some....
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Curious.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Some curious guest coming in with the creaking door.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: Some fans of ours.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Yes. So, Stu, do you have a, y'all need Jesus
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: because this is about to go off the rails here.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: They have escaped.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: That's a good, because this is.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: What is this, Stu?
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: Short and sweet and to the point.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: From FM 101.1, the voice of Indiana County, WCCS.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I guess it's not Florida.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Well, they're just reporting on it.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, okay.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: By John Smathers. Marijuana use in jury room forces a
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: homicide mistrial. One of the jurors is smoking weed in
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: the juror room while they're supposed to be debating a homicide.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: You got picked for a homicide jury and you are
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: going to F it up by smoking weed in there.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Are you crazy?
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Yes. Not Florida.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: No.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: She said not Florida.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: August 20th, 2026, a homicide trial in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania,
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: ended in a mistrial.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: Classic Pennsylvania.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Ended in a mistrial after court staff smelled marijuana coming
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: from the jury room during a lunch break. The judge
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: questioned all 14 jurors individually, but none admitted to using marijuana.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: I can't even believe this. I would think they would
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: be the guy that was stoned with the glassy eyes.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Asking for Cheetos. I would just... Cheetos and Little Debbie's.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: I would just like to say, if I ever made
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: it on... A homicide jury. I wouldn't be on my
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: best behavior. I wouldn't even talk to you about it.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: I'd be like, no, I cannot be taken off this jury.
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: This is a major situation. We have landed a true... Like,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: we're in it.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Dreams do come true. Anyway.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Defense attorneys said that they could not continue with the
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: case because someone on the jury appeared to be withholding information.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: The mistrial was declared on Tuesday and the case will
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: have to be Retried. The end.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: So a new set. Oh, I'd be so pissed off
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: at him if I was on the jury with him.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: And got you kicked off.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, got me kicked off.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess they were too afraid to rat
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: him out.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Yes. Oh, I would have ratted him.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: It's the guy with the glassy eyes.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, we have a visitor, so. Yes. Say hello. Hello.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Well, that is it for us this week. Yeah. Yeah.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Our plan is to do this out, and we have
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: a building an MD used to, if you will.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: If you will.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: It's called, which is what they list it as. It's
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: a mother-in-law suite, but I will not call it that because.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: It's not. It doesn't have a full shower.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: It doesn't have it, but it's a.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: It doesn't even have a separate bathroom.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: No, it's not, but it has a toilet. It has water.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: It could be upgraded to something else.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Somebody could live in that.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Basically, it's a big air-conditioned storage unit.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: With a toilet inside.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: In our backyard. So we're going to, that was the main,
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: one of the big draws for the house. So, yeah,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: we're going to be setting up our podcasting there at
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: some point. But right now we're in the office down
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: from the children, and here they are.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Right next to them.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Here they are. But, yeah, that's our case for this week.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Do you have anything else you'd like to add, Stu? No.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have to go unpack something.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: Okay. Well, we're going outside to clean up the porch
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Well, let's go unpack the boxes out there.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, you guys, everyone, stay safe, lock your doors,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: and keep that porch light on.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Bye, everyone.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Say bye, Stu. Bye.