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The 5 o' Clock Shadow with David Shapiro and Viv Govender · Strictly Business

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  You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams.
• 0:05
  The JSC is closed its doors for another day, so it's time for the 5 o'clock
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  shadow.
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  And as always, on a Thursday, I have the double-headed Dream Team edition with
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  David Shapiro from Sassman Securities currently
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  hanging off a balcony somewhere watching the New York Knicks victory parade in
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  Manhattan and Viv Govender, slightly less
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  glamorous in some people's eyes, but not mine.
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  In Johannesburg.
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  He's from Randsuisse, the award-winning Randsuisse.
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  David, you've got to give us some colour first because you're very excited.
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  I can almost sense it.
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  You know, I can't believe.
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  You sent me that article from The Guardian about how New York party.
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  Yes.
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  And you can't believe it until you see it.
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  Here you are, the Knicks won the first basketball championship since 1973.
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  But the city's gone mad.
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  And, I mean, what it does is it just draws everybody together.
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  Millions of people are down there, but when they do a parade, it's not like
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  Arsenal or Liverpool, you know, who go
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  down a street in a bus.
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  Here they've got marching bands.
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  They've got, you know, just the whole parade just goes on and it's ticker tape.
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  They are throwing a paper.
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  I don't know where they found it because the ticker tape doesn't exist, but it's
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  been an incredible day.
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  And this comes on top of the World Cup, which is just another big party that's
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  happening.
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  By default, here I am in New York, but it's been an incredible time to be here.
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  Yeah.
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  This parade is something else.
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  I would try and top that, but I really can't.
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  I saw a couple of cows earlier on today in a field lying down because it's so hot,
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  but that's about it.
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  Viv, you're listening intently there, but I also want to, you know, if you listened
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  intently to the FOMC, their
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  post-interest rate decision in the United States this week, last night, in fact, I
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  think it was, did you read some of
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  the changes that are going to happen?
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  Because I immediately watched the dollar, and the dollar strengthened quite a bit.
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  And then I read through the FOMC minutes summary, Viv, and it seems it's hawkish in
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  the short term, but maybe long term it's actually
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  going to be quite dovish.
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  What did you think?
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  Yes, I mean, I think one thing to be, like, wary of is the fact that the market
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  was obviously, you know, concerned about,
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  I think, some of the stuff that...
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  you know, what she's going to bring into play here.
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  I do think that in terms of the kind of stuff that came through, we are not
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  as scared, you know, of him being as, I think maybe Trump-focused as we might have
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  been.
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  It's simpler, of course.
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  You know, we're not going to give you, you know, too much guidance going forward.
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  And I think that, you know, that's going back to more of a pre- kind of like...
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  Who is it?
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  Greenspan, kind of, you know, the Greenspan kind of, you know, almost, you
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  know, read
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  the entrails kind of statement that he used to give out.
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  I do think that it's probably kind of makes sense.
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  I think we may have got a bit too far with the Fed trying to basically keep the
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  market with all these signals
• 3:16
  that are going out.
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  And I think the fact of the matter is that in the last little while, we have seen to
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  a certain extent, even though they got it back on track.
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  You know, inflation did get out of control to a certain extent.
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  I do think that the Fed basically acting more methodically, less, you know,
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  trying to be manipulative of the market probably is the right way to go.
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  As you said, if he does go down the path of having that kind of Trump, you know, to
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  the slow interest rates
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  than we had historically, I do think that probably is not going to be a great thing.
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  That being said, I mean, in the current environment, if you look at the...
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  budget deficits out there, it kind of logically makes sense that the Fed really
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  can't go and be high interest rate for much longer,
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  or for long periods of time.
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  The government just could not afford it, quite frankly, to pay those interest
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  payments.
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  Yeah.
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  I'm just reading a couple of things here.
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  And David, you'll like this one, because it brings in the AI story.
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  There were several changes, sort of an overhaul.
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  So several changes are going to be made.
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  The first is Fed communications, which Viv has hinted at, in other words, guidance.
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  Second, the Fed's balance sheet policy, the use of reliance on existing data
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  sources.
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  So they're going to review the way that, I suppose, inflation is collated, the
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  number.
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  Fourth is productivity in jobs in the era of transformation.
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  So they're going to talk about that.
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  In other words, the AI effect, what it has on inflation and therefore their
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  projections on inflation.
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  And lastly, the Fed's inflation frameworks.
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  So if you look at those statements, David, they're pretty dramatic, I think.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  I think, you know what, when you listen to him, and he made a statement, he said, you
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  know, we've been above 2%
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  for five years plus, you know, well above 2%.
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  We can't go on like that.
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  And I think the whole purpose of this is to re, you know, to look at all those
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  areas and say, are we doing
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  things right?
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  You know, is there a better way to do things?
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  How do we measure inflation?
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  What is inflation?
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  Lindsay, I've always brought up this argument, you know.
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  How do you know what inflation is?
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  You know, it doesn't affect Viv, you or me in the same way, as a person on the
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  streets, you know, who has to buy groceries.
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  So I think he's doing the right thing.
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  So we're going to have to just sit back and say, listen, we're not going to get
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  rate reductions for
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  a good one, two years, probably closer to two years.
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  And that means that we've got to relook at where we are in markets.
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  It hasn't affected markets.
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  What affected markets today was the fact that oil prices have come down on Trump's
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  deal, which is a whole other issue.
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  But I mean, Europe put up rates.
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  UK left them steady.
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  So we've got to just come back, take a step back and say, OK, how does this
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  affect the broader market, not the
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  AI market?
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  So there's a bit of thinking to be done around that.
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  Yes, indeed.
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  We will mention, I have to mention the so-called deal.
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  to It's a memorandum of understanding, which is not legally binding.
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  It's just got Trump's little scribble on it.
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  And the only reason he did that was because Macron very cleverly invited him
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  to Versailles.
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  And, you know, he loves gold and brocade and all sorts of a lush environment, if I
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  can put
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  it that way.
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  So he was very flattered by that.
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  And so when Macron said, please sign it, he signed it with a flourish and said.
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  That's it.
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  It's the end of the war, essentially.
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  But I don't know if it is, Viv, again, you have a very different way of looking at
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  things than I do.
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  But I see the oil price at around $78, $79 a barrel at the moment.
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  And it's come down from around about $95 a week ago.
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  So it's a really big drop.
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  But I just think that it may be a little bit overstated, the optimism, that is.
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  Would you agree?
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  Yes.
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  Just one thing I want to say.
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  I just hope history doesn't repeat itself with another Treaty of Versailles, if you
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  know what I mean.
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  Precisely.
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  Yeah, I mean, I think from now on...
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  Lead to the Second World War.
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  After that Treaty of Versailles last time around, I would have thought that the last
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  thing you ever want to do is sign anything in
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  Versailles.
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  The whole of America.
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  Juju here.
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  Exactly.
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  That took 20 years, I suppose, to result in another war, Viv.
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  So we've got a little bit of time.
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  But yeah, in between, it was horrible.
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  I get your point.
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  I just, I don't see, I don't understand it.
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  And Trump was very, very erratic.
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  I know he's been erratic throughout his second term, but he was extremely erratic
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  over the last couple of days when he was in
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  Evian Le Ban for the G7 meeting.
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  He said something like, if this deal goes well, I'm going to take the credit.
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  If it doesn't, that's JD's fault.
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  And he was sort of half joking, but half serious as well.
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  He was embracing the Egyptian leader, who's a strong man, saying that we fell in
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  love at first sight, just like he said with
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  Kim in North Korea.
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  It was all a bit weird to me.
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  I don't know.
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  I love a good bear market occasionally.
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  But so oiled below 80 to me is, David, a bit of a short term and
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  fanciful print I'm seeing on my screen.
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  Yeah.
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  Look.
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  We've got to see whether or not it does go down from these levels and whether or not
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  there is easing
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  in the market, I mean, the physical market.
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  I'm sure these are all the derivative markets that have brought it down, but you
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  want to see whether we can get back to 60 or not.
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  And I think that's, look, that's worrying South Africa.
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  I mean, even at 80, it's tough for us.
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  You know, it's very, very tough.
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  You can see where our inflation rates are.
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  And they might be easing, but it's not going to be all that beneficial in the
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  longer term.
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  So even on our side, we're still forecasting that there's going to be some
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  more rate increases.
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  And I think that's affecting Europe as well.
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  But sentiment is okay.
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  And I think just quickly where I'm going is I think we're going to go back to AI.
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  We're going to go back to SpaceX.
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  We're going to start looking at those fundamentals again.
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  This is out the way now.
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  we can start you know, looking at the benefits of that and whether or not there
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  is going to be, are going to be,
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  you know, productivity increases, whether it is going to live up to what everybody
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  says it is.
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  So I'm pleased about that side, but we've got to rethink where we are, Lindsay.
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  You know what I mean?
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  We came into this year expecting more rate decreases.
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  And that's gone out.
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  That's no longer there.
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  And what lies ahead for the global economy in a circumstance where rates are not
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  coming down?
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  Yes, it's a very interesting week that we've just had.
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  And the ramifications of what we've just been talking about, I think, will be seen
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  long into the future.
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  And if you look at the euro-dollar exchange rate, for example, I mean,
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  everyone was talking the dollar in the 120s.
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  That was before the war, of course.
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  But even now that the war is...
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  paused for now.
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  It still seems that the US dollar is suddenly in the ascendancy.
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  You're under pressure.
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  But anyway, it will all pan out.
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  But all I can say is on my screen, I see the S&P futures up around about 1%, which
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  is fantastic.
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  And Viv now is probably, or his clients, the owners of SpaceX.
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  Did you buy, Vivian?
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  I'm not the IPO.
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  We offer it to clients.
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  I think it's overvalued.
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  Here's the one little thing that I want to put out there.
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  The overvalued SpaceX actually is an advantage to the company for the following
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  reason.
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  Look what they did with Cursor.
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  They went and bought Cursor for $60 billion of SpaceX shares.
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  If SpaceX is massively overvalued, that means you're going to get a discount.
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  Elon Musk basically is then just being given like basically a $2 trillion kitty
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  to go and invest in all the little AI companies he wants to.
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  And if you look at the valuation for an anthropic open AI, they are justified at
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  $1 trillion, you know,
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  $100 billion a day, you know, give or take.
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  Well, quite frankly, with what he has right now, he can quite frankly go out and
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  kind of get into that kind of space.
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  And then for half the value, it's basically about $2 trillion.
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  Half of that $1 trillion can be made up by trying to build up that Grok AI system.
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  So I think that is an interesting, but quite frankly, you know, at the pricing
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  that it comes to right now, it's very, it's eye-wateringly expensive for
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  clients.
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  And we got, we had ordered off the IPO.
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  Unfortunately, we only got about one-tenth.
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  of the offering we made.
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  You know, of course, it's oversubscribed.
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  And because of the mechanism we're looking at, we only get about one-tenth, but still
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  the clients did back not the idea, of course.
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  Yes, of course.
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  And congratulations on that.
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  And long may it continue.
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  David, you've sort of stood aside, I suppose, and watched it unfolding
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  before you and probably, like Viv, you think it's a little bit too rich at the
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  moment.
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  I never had the opportunity to do so.
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  We couldn't do through our various agents.
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  And once it listed, you know, it kicked up and I thought, OK, just stand aside.
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  Where I agree with Viv, you're using overvalued currency to buy, you know,
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  stocks.
• 12:37
  Yes.
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  So you're using an inflated dollar, whatever it is, or an inflated share
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  price.
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  And I don't know whether it's big enough to do deals.
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  And slowly you bring down your multiple, you know, by doing that.
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  It was a favorite trick of many companies, conglomerates and that, who used to, you
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  know, just use their script to buy other
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  businesses.
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  But I like the story and, you know, I like where they're going.
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  But I just think for the meantime with other stocks, you know, whether it's a
• 13:03
  Microsoft or Amazon or any of
• 13:05
  those, at much more compelling valuations.
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  The one thing, Lindsay, we are, this market is not overvalued.
• 13:14
  You know, I keep getting even now the references to the bubble in 2000.
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  This is not 2000.
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  2000.
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  You had these massive multiples without earnings.
• 13:26
  Here, the companies are keeping up with their earnings.
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  In other words, I don't even think there's an increase in multiples.
• 13:34
  You're not seeing multiples or PEs of 50, 60, 70 or something.
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  We've got NVIDIA at a forward of about 23 for a company that's earning significantly
• 13:43
  more than that in earnings.
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  So I'm comfortable in that area.
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  I'm comfortable to stay with those stocks.
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  Just simply on those fundamentals.
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  I'm just sorry, you know, without talking too much, I'm sorry that we're not going
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  into a period of lower interest rates, you know,
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  and, you know, the market's not going to broaden up, that we've got to focus where
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  we are, which is still very rewarding, but, you
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  know, somewhat restrictive.
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  I'm just looking at...
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  I'm just going to give some context to what David just said.
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  I'm just looking at the screen.
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  which pops up automatically on one particular site that I favour, and it
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  gives you the most active stocks
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  on the market today.
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  Micron up 8.5%, SpaceX down 6.7%, Nvidia up 2.3%, Intel nearly 9%
• 14:32
  higher, SanDisk up 11%, Marvel up 12%.
• 14:37
  and Apple a 1% gainer.
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  But you can see the composition of the most active stocks, Viv.
• 14:42
  I mean, it's extraordinary.
• 14:44
  In the old days, it would have been Kodak and Dow Chemicals and things like that.
• 14:48
  But now, look at those names, Viv.
• 14:51
  Yeah, the one thing I want to point out is that Apple's announcing that it's going to
• 14:54
  be raising the price of iPhones going forward because the price of memory is too
• 14:58
  much.
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  And if this AI thing keeps on going as it is, it's going to translate from memory
• 15:02
  into energy.
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  And I do think that's going to be an issue down the line because not only are you not
• 15:07
  suffering because you're not in like the AI companies, but if you're not in
• 15:10
  the AI companies, the companies you are in are going to be negatively affected by the
• 15:14
  AI kind of hype out there.
• 15:15
  So if energy starts to rise, we are going to be in a big, you know, kind of bit of
• 15:20
  trouble.
• 15:20
  Like what Apple is doing right now by having to raise prices because of memory,
• 15:23
  the other companies down the line are going to start raising prices because
• 15:26
  energy is going up, because
• 15:27
  infrastructure is more expensive, et cetera, et cetera.
• 15:31
  Good point.
• 15:32
  Okay.
• 15:33
  David, anything else before we wrap up AI and go to the real markets?
• 15:37
  The one thing Walsh did bring up is that recognizing that high rates, you know,
• 15:44
  hurting the economy, he meant on the property market or the housing market.
• 15:49
  And that's a… That's a sticking point with him.
• 15:51
  That's a sticking point with everybody, even with Trump.
• 15:53
  You know, high interest rates means that market doesn't recover.
• 15:58
  You know, that market stays where it is.
• 16:00
  And that's bad for Trump.
• 16:01
  It's bad for the economy.
• 16:03
  He's got to find a solution where he's not raising rates, but he is going to
• 16:07
  stimulate housing and, you know, make it more affordable
• 16:11
  for people to buy houses and so on.
• 16:14
  Interesting point.
• 16:14
  He didn't elaborate.
• 16:16
  You know, he didn't elaborate on that, but he did admit.
• 16:19
  that it's an area that they need to look at.
• 16:23
  Could be a two-tier economy, could be a two-tier market continuing forward.
• 16:27
  He did say one thing, that they were 100% committed to price stability and they
• 16:31
  would deliver price stability, and obviously in a
• 16:34
  slightly different way to under Fed Chair Powell.
• 16:37
  But the other thing he said was, persistent high prices are the enemy of
• 16:42
  the American people.
• 16:44
  And it flies directly in the face of what his boss said last week and he says, I
• 16:48
  like inflation, a stupid thing to say.
• 16:51
  Trump I'm talking about, of course.
• 16:53
  But anyway, he said it for the record.
• 16:56
  Okay, we've got the dollar round at 16.42.
• 16:58
  British pound against the round is 21.74.
• 17:01
  And the euro round is 18.85.
• 17:04
  The euro dollar, 1.1480 now.
• 17:09
  It's quite a big move.
• 17:10
  It doesn't sound like a lot.
• 17:11
  It's only about a quarter of a percent.
• 17:12
  But it's quite impactful for the world's largest and most important.
• 17:17
  asset class, I suppose.
• 17:19
  What else have we got?
• 17:20
  Gold price?
• 17:20
  Ooh, dear.
• 17:21
  $42.52.
• 17:22
  That is...
• 17:26
  It's only down five today, but it's 100 down from yesterday.
• 17:30
  David, go on.
• 17:31
  You know, I was saying you were negative on gold.
• 17:33
  You're right.
• 17:34
  That market, I think, is over.
• 17:36
  I'm just looking at the gaps as well, Viv, just to put this into bringing you into a
• 17:41
  conversation that David and I had on
• 17:43
  Monday.
• 17:44
  I said, I'm looking at the NASDAQ graph.
• 17:46
  in the old-fashioned way of the open high low close bar chart not the continuation
• 17:52
  graph that you get
• 17:53
  with 24-hour markets these days and there's so many gaps on the on the nasdaq
• 17:57
  we've got another gap today the market in other
• 18:00
  words the market opens higher than the high of the previous day it's just looking
• 18:04
  a little bit gappy to me but it's not it there isn't
• 18:07
  a top in place yet fundamentally or technically um the platinum price is 17 uh
• 18:13
  21 which
• 18:14
  is down four percent you Another big move and a bad one for South Africa.
• 18:18
  Palladium is down 5% at 12.95.
• 18:23
  The other one, and the all-important one, of course, is the oil price, which
• 18:26
  continues to slide.
• 18:27
  It's down 3.25%.
• 18:28
  That's Brent crude oil, $76.97 now.
• 18:32
  West Texas crude is $74.10, which is down 3.5%.
• 18:38
  S&P 500, the futures I'm looking at now, these have gone to September, up 0.94%.
• 18:44
  8% South African 10-year bond yield.
• 18:47
  This is an interesting one.
• 18:48
  It's behaving quite well.
• 18:49
  It's 8.44%.
• 18:51
  And the US 10-year treasury yield, also not doing that badly if you're a
• 18:58
  yield chaser.
• 18:59
  It's 4.412%.
• 19:01
  Okay, it was 450 10 days ago or something, but it's not really reacting that much.
• 19:06
  The 30-year is reacting a little bit more to the Fed statement.
• 19:09
  But anyway.
• 19:10
  So there we are.
• 19:11
  And Bitcoin, finally, it had a nice little rally from its lows, but it's now down 3.3
• 19:15
  percent,
• 19:16
  63,569.
• 19:19
  How was the JSC today, David?
• 19:21
  Did you manage it with all the excitement of your portfolio and also what's
• 19:25
  happening going through the streets of New York?
• 19:27
  Did you see the JSC or any company news?
• 19:30
  Yeah, I didn't look at company news, but I'm just looking at the you mentioned the
• 19:35
  Platinum Palladium price is a gold
• 19:37
  price.
• 19:37
  So a lot of weakness there.
• 19:40
  in the mining sector.
• 19:41
  That took the market down almost 1%, 0.9% it's down.
• 19:46
  But you've got resources under a lot of pressure.
• 19:48
  The rest of the market's steady.
• 19:50
  But that's a market that's taking a hammering because of, you know, I've seen
• 19:56
  that Sassel is back to
• 19:57
  177.
• 19:58
  Remember, this is a share that was well over 200.
• 20:02
  Also, what's it, 177.33.
• 20:06
  But it was, you know, it was significantly above that.
• 20:10
  This is coming down heavily on those, you know, on the falling oil prices.
• 20:14
  But broadly, mine is under quite a bit of pressure.
• 20:17
  Yeah, I'm going to give you...
• 20:18
  And the rest of the market's steady, but I mean, the market is...
• 20:22
  I don't know what's going to get our market going.
• 20:24
  You know, this was the main driver.
• 20:27
  But if we start to see commodities taking a bit of a knock, and again, against a
• 20:30
  higher oil, you know, with...
• 20:32
  Sorry, against higher interest rates, it's going to be tough for us to get ourselves
• 20:35
  out the hole.
• 20:37
  Yeah, and the all-important dollar-rand exchange rate will be a focus in the
• 20:41
  future for the miners, of course, with the
• 20:44
  rand price.
• 20:45
  these metals.
• 20:46
  But Viv, I don't know if you want to comment on the JSE, but when I read out
• 20:50
  the five losers on my screen, Impala
• 20:52
  Platinum 6.4%, Sibania Stillwater 5.2%, Pan African Resources nearly 5%,
• 20:59
  Northern down 4.3%, and South 32, a 4.2% loser.
• 21:05
  The darlings of last year and earlier this year is just not starting to show cracks.
• 21:09
  They have been showing cracks, but this is the sort of day that the Treasury doesn't
• 21:13
  want to see, Viv.
• 21:15
  Yes, certainly.
• 21:16
  But I mean, I do think, I agree with David, in the short term, probably we are
• 21:19
  going to see these things under a bit of pressure.
• 21:21
  But that being said, I mean, the drivers that are pushing gold up the last few
• 21:25
  years are still there, if not worse.
• 21:27
  Why?
• 21:28
  Because central banks around the world don't want to have as much dollars as they
• 21:30
  had in the past.
• 21:31
  I don't think anything in the last year would make a place like the Europeans or
• 21:35
  the Chinese or the Indians, think to themselves, we really need
• 21:38
  more US dollars in our reserves at the moment.
• 21:39
  You know what I mean?
• 21:40
  And so I think that the underlying demand for swapping in dollars for something else
• 21:44
  has been helping gold.
• 21:45
  I think that remains in long term.
• 21:47
  It certainly does.
• 21:48
  And the World Gold Council came out with this report, their report this week, and
• 21:53
  it said that the buying from central
• 21:55
  banks is still continuing.
• 21:56
  So what it's basically saying is if you look at the price of $4,250, which is
• 22:01
  where it is now, and you see the high of
• 22:02
  $5,600 earlier on this year, you can say that that gap, the $1,400 an ounce gap,
• 22:09
  was
• 22:10
  speculative froth, I suppose.
• 22:12
  Would you agree with that, David?
• 22:14
  A lot of it was ETFs and retail buying.
• 22:18
  Yeah, It will.
• 22:19
  It's going to find a base much lower down.
• 22:21
  And, you know, gold by nature, it's not easy to read.
• 22:25
  I'm more skeptical.
• 22:27
  I'm much more skeptical on having watched gold for so many years.
• 22:31
  I'm not a great gold supporter.
• 22:34
  I understand exactly where Viva's coming from, that people want an alternative.
• 22:39
  But the problem is we can't find it.
• 22:41
  You don't want the euro.
• 22:41
  You don't want the yuan.
• 22:44
  I don't know what you want.
• 22:44
  You don't want Bitcoin anymore as well.
• 22:47
  So I just say, what the hell?
• 22:49
  Buy the dollar.
• 22:52
  I wonder if you'll look back at this chat that we've had and David saying that this
• 22:57
  market's not
• 22:59
  overvalued.
• 23:00
  Viv saying SpaceX is overvalued.
• 23:02
  But the reason is, the good part about that is it can go chucking around script
• 23:08
  and just
• 23:09
  buying whatever it likes, essentially, with a two trillion play chest.
• 23:13
  So I just wonder if you'll look back and say the Fed said this all those years ago
• 23:17
  when we were having a chat, and that is what happened to the market straight
• 23:20
  afterwards.
• 23:21
  I don't know.
• 23:22
  David, just quickly, if you can, give us a couple of closing JSE indices, if you
• 23:26
  would.
• 23:27
  Okay.
• 23:28
  So just on the indices, you've got the all-chair index down 0.89%,
• 23:35
  resources down 3.5%, mainly because of the fall in those gold and platinum shares
• 23:40
  that you mentioned.
• 23:41
  The rest of the market pretty steady.
• 23:43
  So you've got the financial and industrial index up 0.41%, banks up
• 23:51
  probably the best performing area, 0.84% up there, and industrial up
• 23:57
  0.4%.
• 23:58
  But I think most of the drag came because of those miners.
• 24:03
  Just from a point of view of activity, what's today?
• 24:08
  Is it a futures closeout?
• 24:11
  Must be.
• 24:12
  64 billion.
• 24:13
  Yeah, that was it.
• 24:14
  Of course, the June closeout.
• 24:17
  Yeah, June.
• 24:18
  So I didn't pick up that activity.
• 24:20
  It came, but plenty of activity today with gold fields trading 5 billion, NASPERS,
• 24:26
  Anglo Gold, all the big
• 24:27
  traders there.
• 24:28
  But obviously futures closeout lifting those values.
• 24:32
  And overseas, NASDAQ is doing very nicely still at 1.3%.
• 24:37
  The dollar index has gone through 100.
• 24:40
  It's 100.4, so a half a percent gain for the dollar against a basket of other
• 24:45
  currencies.
• 24:46
  And gold currently down two and three quarters percent at 42.62.
• 24:49
  Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time, as always.
• 24:52
  David Shapiro is from Sassfin Securities.
• 24:54
  Viv Govender from Rands Swiss in Johannesburg.
• 24:57
  David, just a quick one.
• 24:58
  Are you looking out your window?
• 24:59
  Can you see anything?
• 25:00
  Can you see the Knicks fans going berserk?
• 25:03
  They're going mad.
• 25:04
  I've got to tell you one thing.
• 25:06
  Go on.
• 25:06
  And it's very interesting.
• 25:08
  Mayor Mondani, who's a divisive kind of character in New York.
• 25:12
  The mayor.
• 25:14
  His popularity is going to skyrocket.
• 25:17
  He has made such a big hit.
• 25:19
  He's not my favorite person, but he's made a huge hit with this parade.
• 25:25
  You know, being on the podium there, having organized it as well.
• 25:28
  And I think it's very interesting to see how something like this can help you
• 25:34
  politically.
• 25:35
  So you can be a Marxist with a smile on your face, David.
• 25:39
  Yes, In a New York City that is the most capitalist city you're ever going to find.
• 25:46
  Very good.
• 25:47
  Okay, thank you very much.
• 25:48
  Send those pictures to our joint WhatsApp group, if you will, so David and Viv and I
• 25:53
  can have a look at it.
• 25:55
  Thank you very much.
• 25:56
  That was the 5 o'clock shadow.
• 25:58
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• 26:02
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• 26:05
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• 26:12
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• 26:19
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