Latest / Radio 831: A Romance Podcast / Romance World-Building, Adriana Herrera on Historical Trailblazers, and All-Time Summer Reads

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Romance World-Building, Adriana Herrera on Historical Trailblazers, and All-Time Summer Reads · Radio 831: A Romance Podcast

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome to the Radio eight three one podcast,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: brought to you by the Romance publisher eight three one Stories.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: We're your hosts, Sinjon Obasker and Tyler McCall, and we're
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: so excited to talk everything romance, from the novels and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: the tropes, to the book to screen adaptations and of
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: course the drama of it all, you know, unpacking what
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the genre says about who we are and how we love.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Big stuff, important stuff.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, so this week we're talking about historicals on the pod,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: which is a personal passion project of mine, and I'm
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: really excited for us to have Adriana Herrera on later
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: to talk about some historicals with us. But the fact
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: that that's what this episode is centered around has got
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: me thinking a lot about the issue of world building,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: authenticity and accuracy in romance, and this is something that
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: has been on my mind in a range of context.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: I think the.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Question of what feels real, authentic, true, consistent in the
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: world building of a Romance novel can really vary from
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: context to context. But I'm kind of curious for you, Tyler,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: when we talk about realism and romance, what comes up
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: for you, Like, what is it that you're thinking of.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: For me if I'm not an expert in the thing, right, So,
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: if I'm reading a sports romance because I'm not an
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: expert in any sport, does it feel legible to me?
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: Like?
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  Speaker 2: Can I follow the rules? Can I understand what the
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: context is for this scenario you're setting up, whether it's
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: literally explaining a game to me or explaining the setup
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: for these two people, like getting it on in a
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: very sexy way in this context without being overwhelming, because
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes if you get too bogged down in
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: world building, then suddenly it's a book about sports, yeah,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: in a way that like I'm not maybe necessarily locked into.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I think this is so interesting because I follow
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: just by virtue of being storical romance reader and like
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: watcher of period pieces, I've accidentally ended up following a
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: lot of fashion historians who talk at length about the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: details of regency and Victorian era attire, which is kind
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: of where this conversation about authenticity and realism comes from.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Where people will be like, this kind of attire is
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: not period appropriate. Like I remember when watching the Emerald
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Fennel Weathering Heights, I was like, why does she look
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: like she's at Octoberfest. Yeah, I don't actually no, technically speaking,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: because I'm not a fashion historian, if it's period appropriate
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: for her to be dressed the way that she is.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: But I love watching fashion historians go to town when
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: it comes to like unpacking the different nitty gritty details
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: of costuming. And then I'm also like, how much of
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: it matters really for like producing meaningful media, both textually
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: and in film.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I would say, for me, it matters if you're doing
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: a Hamnet right in which really you're really trying to
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: authentically immerse me in the world that you're in. If
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: we're talking about like a Bridgerton, if you want to
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: have a little flirty fun with it and do an
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: period inappropriate costume, like you're already doing a string rearrangement
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: of a Taylor Swift song. Like I think I can
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: forgive you for putting a zipper on a bus, you
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like I think I can get
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: bast at.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: For me, it's all about the context. So are we
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: dedicating ourselves to the realism of this world In Emerald
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: Fanelle's Wuthering Heights. I don't think that's her goal. I
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: think the goal is style over substance, famously, and if
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: we're looking for a truly faithful world building adaptation, then
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I care a little bit more. What I love about
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: these kinds of conversations is everybody kind of has the
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: thing that takes them out, Like what's the thing that
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: takes you out when you're reading song?
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Oh Man?
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  Speaker 1: So I think I've read enough historicals that there are
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  Speaker 1: sometimes historical details, like in terms of historical context that
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I have started to pick up one, like I have
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: maybe more than the average person's knowledge of the corn
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: laws in England, and so unfortunately.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Unfortunately, truly unfortunately, Like there are little.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: Things like that, like historical inaccuracies that I can sometimes
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: pick up on that will like jar me just a
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: little bit. But I also I don't know that that
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: totally takes me out. Something that I'm really attentive to
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: is portrayals of therapy because my other life Hannah Montana
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: style is that I'm a therapist in training for grad school,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: so I do clinical practice and I think a lot
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: about therapy. But like there's an increased interest in the
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: like therapized romance protagonist, And it's so interesting to me
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: when romance protagonists have sessions on page and what that
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: dialogue looks like. Because I'm not gonna say that I've
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: had every therapy experience or that even as a clinician,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: I know what everyone is practicing and how.
• 4:49
  Speaker 3: But there are definitely times when I'm like, I.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't do that, Well, I wouldn't do that, Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I just wouldn't. I wouldn't do that, or like I
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: would have brought that up, or I would have said that,
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: or why are we talking around it?
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Like, but that also has to do with like, you know,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: a million other really technical things like clinical orientation and
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: training and you know, blah blah blah.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: See, I'm starting to wonder if this is why a
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: lot of contemporary romance heroes or heroines have like they
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: call them like romance jobs.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, everybody's a baker.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Probably if you really are a baker and you're reading
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: a romance about bakers, you're like, that's not how this
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  Speaker 2: gets made at all.
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: For me.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: The thing it's so nitpicky, But it's because the previous
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: lifetime I've spent ten years as a fashion editor is
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: name dropping fashion brands in romance novels because so often
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: it's wrong. Oh, man, Like, I know it's your character
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: and you can do whatever you want, but it's wrong
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: because either you've chosen something that that brand doesn't make,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: like straight up just doesn't make, Like you've invented a
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: style that like Chanelle doesn't do, your character can't afford it.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: It's most effective if you're using it as a shorthand
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  Speaker 2: to tell me something about who that character is. Don't
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: just pick a fancy brand, because the brands are different.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Like a woman wearing Prada says something different to me
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: than a woman wearing ce Laurent says something different than
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: a woman wearing Christopher John Rogers says something then a
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: woman wearing head to Tochnell, Like these are all different things. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: and it takes me out so quick when it's wrong,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: and it's it's wrong a lot.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the thing that's interesting about that is
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  Speaker 1: that it's a class marker, like it's a market of class,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: but it's also a marker of taste, artistry and like
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: disposable income, I mean which class. But it's not so
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: much that like all people writing about fashion in romance
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  Speaker 1: need to be like extraordinarily fashion literate, but there needs
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: to be enough care that there's consistency that renders these
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: elements unobtrusive, like these totally choice is unobtrusive or totally
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: if they're incredibly pointed, well researched, they have to be
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: well researched totally.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: I am literally in the process of doing edits on
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: my novel right now, researching phases to make sure that
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I'm using the correct Like I'm fact checking the lunar
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: phase that I used, because like, who's going to notice that?
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: But somebody will, and they'll be like, why is the
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: moon full on this page and then the next page
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: it's waning. That's wrong.
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: The astrology girlies are mad.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: The astrology girlies will know. I do feel like it
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: is an interesting thing in historicals because historicals, I think
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: you can and should break rules in historical knowlice, right,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: But the question is like, how do you do that
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: in a way that makes sense? Yeah for the reader?
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Mm hmmm hm.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: That thing that I think about all the time is
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: what Zadi Smith said that every time we write about
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: the Victorians, we reinvent them. The idea that like when
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: we are returning in time to another place and time,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: we are reconstructing them is like a fundamental principle of
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: history and the study of history, like historiography is literally
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  Speaker 1: about that, about the constant reconstruction that creates new past realities.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: And so the requirement is still the same, like alterations
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: can will must be made, but they must be consistent
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: within the internal logic of the novel. That I think
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: is what's most important to me totally and kind of
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: along those lines, I'm really really excited to return to
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  Speaker 1: Victorians and more because up next to we have Adriana
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Herrera coming on to talk about her new publication project
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: offering special editions and like newly releasing these really really
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: iconic historical romances, and we're so excited to have her
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: on to talk about what they chose to publish and
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: what is it that we like really stand to get
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: from returning to the past in romance. Hi, Audreyana, thank
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: you so much for coming on.
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  Speaker 2: I appreciate it, and congrats on an amazing launch. By
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: the way, I checked in on it and I was
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: blown away.
• 9:05
  Speaker 5: Oh, thank you, thank you very much, thank you for
• 9:07
  Speaker 5: having me. This is actually a great little reprieve from
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: obsessing over did I forget something?
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: Is something listening on the Kickstarter page or.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: And actually I think that's maybe the best place to start.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Can you, for our listeners give us a little spiel
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: about what this project actually is.
• 9:24
  Speaker 5: So the Historical trill Blazer Romance Collection is essentially curated
• 9:30
  Speaker 5: set of historical romances that Ali Hazelwood, who is my
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: business partner in these collections in our Age Score project
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  Speaker 5: and I really love. They're our favorite historical romances of
• 9:43
  Speaker 5: all time, I would say, but also specifically historical romances
• 9:46
  Speaker 5: that in some way have blazed a trail in the
• 9:49
  Speaker 5: genre or have done something in a way that hadn't
• 9:53
  Speaker 5: been done before. And we partnered for this project with
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: Fated Made's Podcasts who for years na Jen Procop and
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: Sarah maclain, who is also a phenomenal historical romance writer,
• 10:05
  Speaker 5: have had this podcast for a long time now, but
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: in like maybe the last five years, they've had this
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: project called the Trailblazers where they're basically doing an ural
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: history of the genre and talking to the women that
• 10:17
  Speaker 5: built the house as a way to kind of preserve
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: those stories. The Black Romance podcast also did a similar
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: project which with only black romance authors and all of
• 10:27
  Speaker 5: the romance authors in our collection are women who have
• 10:31
  Speaker 5: been part of the Trailblazers projects through Faded Mates. Then
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: we also partner with Julia Whalen, who is a very
• 10:38
  Speaker 5: well known the adele of audiobooks. She has a company
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: called Audiobrery, which is kind of her way of making
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: more ethical audiobooks. She pays royalties to her narrators, which
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: is unheard of. So it was a partnership that we
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: wanted to do because also the ethos of Age Squared
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: is that we want to compensate there and we want
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: to highlight creators that don't have a lot of disability
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: in the romance space. So my breaking point was when
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: I heard that it was the thirtieth anniversary of Lord
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: of Scoundrels and there was like no special religion.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: I spent like three days tagging Avon on social media
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: like where's the special edition?
• 11:19
  Speaker 5: So then I thought to myself, I could put this
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: energy into something a little more productive to.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: Level set for listeners.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: The five books that are part of this collection are
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: Butterfly Swords by Jeannie Lynn, Magpielord by kJ Charles, Lord
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: of Scoundrels by Loretta Chase, Indigo by Beverly Jenkins, and
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Dreaming of You by Lisa Klapis. So this is the
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: set of five. So I come to romance as a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: historical romance reader. Tyler is newer to historical romance. There's
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: something really interesting about this project potentially being the kind
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: of thing that bridges the historical romance reader who started
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: with Clapis and Jenkins and Lord of Scoundrels with the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: person who is newer to the subset of the genre.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: And I'm curious for you if that was a conscious
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: part of the creative decision making around this project.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: And also like the timing of this too, right, Like everyone.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: In romance idea has been having this persistent conversation of
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: like our historicals dead, our historicals dead, those of us
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: who know and love historicals are sort of perpetually like
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: historicals are an endless well from which creative romantic energy
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: comes from.
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: Ali and I think a lot about the romance genre
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: in general. I think a big part of our friendship
• 12:34
  Speaker 5: and the reason why we even do these projects is
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: because we realigned in like the way that we see
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: the romance industry and what we want for it, and
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: so we kind of like are doing these like projects
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: as like taking matters into our own hands in a way,
• 12:47
  Speaker 5: and that piece of it is just like the kind
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: of constant frustration of having kind of the scuttle but
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: of like historical romance, this doesn't have a space anymore.
• 12:57
  Speaker 5: They just don't see it as an investment that is
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: is worth the risk. There's just like maybe nothing left
• 13:04
  Speaker 5: there to explore. And that in particular is frustrating because
• 13:07
  Speaker 5: as someone that has written historical romance and just got
• 13:11
  Speaker 5: in the door essentially, like my Leona series came out,
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: the first book came out twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three,
• 13:19
  Speaker 5: and it was the first traditionally published historical romance.
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: With a Latina heroin.
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: And then, you know, maybe six months later we hear
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: that historical romance is just not a thing anymore. Doesn't
• 13:30
  Speaker 5: feel pointed at all, doesn't feel pointed at all exactly.
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: You know, like there's there's Beverly Jenkins who's been like
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: holding the torch for you know, almost forty years, and
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: very few others have been able to stay the course
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: because it is very hard to stay in historical if
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: you're not writing a specific kind of thing.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: I would love to know how you guys curated the
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: titles and if this is something that you think you
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: could do or would want to do again, because I'm
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: thinking specifically recently, you and I were sat near each
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: other at a dinner and Sarah MacLean and I mentioned
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: that I don't have a good historical backlog, and I
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: ended up, like at the end of that dinner having
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: literally I think fifteen tabs open on my phone of
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: book recommendations. So I really just want to know, like,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: how you guys narrowed that down to these five titles.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, it was not that hard to be honest, Okay,
• 14:21
  Speaker 4: we kind of had.
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: To go by these are the books I feel must
• 14:25
  Speaker 5: be there, like, and that was like easy, Indigo, Lord
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: of Scoundrels. If it would have been me, I probably
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: would have said Devil in Winter for Lisa Kleapus, that's
• 14:34
  Speaker 5: just because it's a particular favor of mine, or again
• 14:37
  Speaker 5: the mag mine as well mine as well, or again
• 14:39
  Speaker 5: the Magic for Ali Hazelwood if it would have been
• 14:42
  Speaker 5: hers to pick. But we went with Dreaming of You
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: a because it's a you know, if you're a fated
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: Mace listener, it's just one of the books that they
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: both love and it was a trailblazer because that was
• 14:54
  Speaker 5: the first hero that was a working class and famously
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: born in a drain pipe. Derek Craven. Derek Craven, there
• 15:04
  Speaker 5: wasn't a romance hero like Derek Craven before he was written.
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: The romance hero was written before that that began as commoners.
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: In the end, surprise surpriser actually a duke. They're actually
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: an earl. So the swing that Lisa Klaypas took makes
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: that book a trailblazer because he was not in the end,
• 15:22
  Speaker 5: he was just what he was.
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: It was like a commoner. So now and then Jenny
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: Lynn was.
• 15:28
  Speaker 5: Like pretty much the first traditionally published historical romance set
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: in ancient China.
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: There had been no other before that.
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: Then, of course the Magpielord, which wasn't the first historical
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: romance that was MN But I think what makes that
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: book special to me, it's one of my favorite historical
• 15:48
  Speaker 5: romances of all time. I think it was the genre
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: bending that that historical romance. It also has a very
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: different kind of historical hero. It's paranormal, it's horror, it's historical,
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: it's victorian. It just felt like something like I had
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: not read anything like it before.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: With this being such a love letter to these books
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: that are pillars of the genre, I'm curious if you
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: anticipate newcomers to historical romance embracing this, Like what you
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: think they might get from this.
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: Part of this endeavor is like, you know, to be
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: in a way taste makers, to like give people things
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: that we feel if you loved romance, you should know
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: about this.
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: I think the historical romance subgenre is not the place
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: for everybody is like going to be introduced to romance,
• 16:39
  Speaker 5: Like I do think, especially like in the landscape of
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: romance now, I think you know, we are in a
• 16:44
  Speaker 5: place where like we're really kind of like in the extremes.
• 16:47
  Speaker 5: Like you either have like dark romance, which is like
• 16:49
  Speaker 5: super super intense and the themes are like a lot darker,
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: or you have like.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: A millennial romance, which is a little bit less conflict.
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: And a lot more and then historical romance I consider
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: kind of like the Broadway of romance. It's kind of
• 17:06
  Speaker 5: like larger than life. Everybody shows up and like breaks
• 17:09
  Speaker 5: into the song.
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: There's you know, like like a duel. There's a I
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: love a duel.
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: I love like a chase to Gretna Green like a
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: carriage race. Like I love all these very high stakes,
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: larger than life conventions of the subgenre. I think we
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: even have talked about this before that romanticy is a cousin,
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: or like a second cousin, of historical What I hope
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: is that people come into these books and can understand
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: why they are important to the genre, like the and
• 17:41
  Speaker 5: like reading them in the context of Beverly Jenkins in
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: nineteen ninety five wrote a romance novel with a heroin
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: that was an underground railroad conductor whose father had sewed
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: himself into slavery to be with his mom.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: And it is one of the most.
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: Glorious love stories that I have read in my thirty
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: something years reading in romance. And it's a book that
• 18:04
  Speaker 5: is still timely, like you read Indigo and it could
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: have been written last week.
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: Part of what I love about historical romance.
• 18:11
  Speaker 5: And I think it does this more just because of
• 18:14
  Speaker 5: the virtue of it, because it exists outside our own time,
• 18:17
  Speaker 5: so it doesn't age like the great contemporary romances feel
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: more dated.
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: And I think these books are a perfect representation of
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: the value and the timelessness and the relevance of the genre,
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: like there are books in this genre that will live forever.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, But I'm also thinking about how these books
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: slot into a moment where period pieces are incredibly culturally
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: relevant and popular, like Gilded Age and Bridgerton and the
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: other Bennett Sister, there is enduring cultural interest in this
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: timeless past where restraint and tension and the specific kind
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: of plotting, the like Broadway showmanship that you're talking about,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: has real cultural currency. So I guess I'm curious if
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: you feel like there are connections to be made between
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: bringing these books back to the forefront in this way
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: and this cultural interest in period pieces, especially because it
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: seems like a kind of cultural capital that mainstream publishers
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: have not been able to capitalize on meaningfully.
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: For sure, Like there are period piece shows that I
• 19:35
  Speaker 5: feel like the aesthetic is more the historical pieces than
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: the actual like like Bridge for example. Like I feel
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: is like, you know, something that is like wallpaperyes exactly
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: like aesthetically, although love it and enjoy it, like I
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: actually really enjoyed this last season, and it does feel
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: a little different than like the Gilded Age, which doesn't
• 19:54
  Speaker 5: have the romance, but feels like very, very very like
• 19:58
  Speaker 5: steeped in the actual, like class warfare, and like the society,
• 20:03
  Speaker 5: like the upstairs downstairs of it all. And so it
• 20:06
  Speaker 5: does make you wonder why publishing isn't singing that there
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: is an interest, even if it is just the aesthetic,
• 20:15
  Speaker 5: it does make you.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: Wonder why they're not being more strategic about it.
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: And to me, historical really is that place that I
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: find most like nutritious.
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: For me as a reader.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: I love that word.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: I love that part of a rounded diet. Yeah, Adrianna,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on and congratulations on
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: this like huge win. I think last I took day
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: one and it's at one hundred and thirty thousand. Oh
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: my god, it was huge, which is twice.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is twice what it was what I looked.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: And you know what, by the time we hop off
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: it will be more. It'll be so exciting.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: Yes, we're happy. We're happy that is doing well. We're
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: so happy that.
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: People are coming to it, and we so a lot
• 21:00
  Speaker 5: more people will take a chance on. These books are
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: so important to this genre.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: It was so lovely to talk to Adriana about historicals
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: and these classics and kind of coming off the heels
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: of that. We are now coming into June. We are
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: approaching summer reads season, beach read season, and I think
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: it feels important for us to take stock of the
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: iconic summer reads that we come back to over and over,
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: because again, romance isn't just about what's coming out, it's
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: also about backlist work that ends up being really influential
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: for us as readers.
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: So Tiler and I are going to pitch our all.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Time favorite summer reads for you all, and we'd love
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: to hear also from you about what your favorite summer
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: reads are.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: They stressed me out so much, Sanchikaa test that I
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I've been texting you about this for like twenty four
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: hours straight, like stressing over choice.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: We set the guideline of trying to just pick one book,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: like one book, Capsul, and that's that's what's impossible, that
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: we cannot pick just one book.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Also, I will confess I'm not a big rereader. I
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: very rarely reread things. Yeah, I get very antsy about
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: there's so much stuff that I haven't read at all.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: There has to be a lot of distance for me
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: to reread something. I finally saw this book and I
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: was like, duh, it's this book, and that book is
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Casey mcquisten's The Pairing, which I have not read that
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: I need to.
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: I need to.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Now is the time to do it. It is a romp.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: It is a romp through Europe euro Summer. This book
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: is so horny.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: Oh, I love this.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: This is like truly one of the horniest books I've
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: ever read. Casey delivered on that. First of all, the
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: romance component of it is so good. I mean, it's Casey,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: so obviously it's going to be there, like it's brilliant.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: It is kind of a second chance X's situation. They're
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: sort of trying to like outfuck each other. I don't
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: know how else to explain what they're doing.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: So good.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: It's so good. It's like they're on this trip with
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: each other. They were supposed to take it together and
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: they broke up, and then they're like, well they independently
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: accidentally sort of take it. At the same time. It's like,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: what new hot person in this new European city can
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: I bone down with. It's a food and wine tour,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: like a food and drink tour, so and like the
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: descriptions of everything are just so delicious, like it's just
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: so like, oh good, you eat it up with a spoon.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And so I will be rereading this ideally sitting by
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: a pool. But if I have to do it out
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: on like Coney Island, I will, Like if I have
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: to do it on the rockaways, I will.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: By god, you're telling me that you won't be U
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: schlepping off to can or Auntie for your reading.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Ish man, I listen, is that a tax?
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: Right off?
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Hey, I needed to take this trip to go read
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Casey mcquest novel important. Actually I will call my accountant
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: and ask. So that's my pitch for all time summer read.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: And actually my pick is also very fixed on sensory pleasures.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: It's The Art of Scandal by Regina Black, which it's
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: not explicitly set during the summer, but I think, I mean,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: there are parts of it that take place during the summer.
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: For sure.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: It's in the lead up to election season, so it's
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: got to be like summer and early fall basically. But
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: it's about this woman, Rachel, who is a black woman
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: married to a white progressive politician in the DC area.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: And on the first pages, this isn't a spoiler. The
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: first pages of the book, she finds out that her
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: husband has been cheating on her and basically negotiates her
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: way into a fat financial settlement oh yeah, in exchange
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: for pretending to be his happy wife through election season.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: And in the process, she also starts an affair with
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: a younger man again age gap summer again, age gap defender.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: She starts this affair with a younger man named Nathan,
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: who she finds to be and the book is about that,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: like the sensory pleasures of this affair, if you want
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: to call it that, But it's also about Rachel's relationship
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: with Art and how she recovers and restores her relationship
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: with Art. And it's a debut novel, which is bonkers
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: to me because it is so sharp, it's so tightly written,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: it's so specific and sexy, and it just like it's
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: just so good. I mean, Regia Block is just like
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: a singular talent to me, and this book was such
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: a like slick, sexy, interesting, thoughtfully written romance debut. I
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: have a lot of fondness for Regina Black's writing, and
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I've revisited parts of this. I'm more of a rereader
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: than you, for sure, Tyler. But I think I'm not
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: often picking up a book and reading it cover to cover. Again,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: I'm reading my singular chapters all the time, like I
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: have some chapter of several books open all the time.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: I guess we should establish like what makes an ideal
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: summer read, Like what makes a summer read different than
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: what you're looking for the rest of the year.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: For me, it is that sensory element, Like it is
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: the idea of something that is like hot and sticky
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: and like pleasurable, but in a way that is like
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: a little messy, Like I think mess is required, and
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: it's interesting to me that, Like in your book, they're
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: like how can we messy?
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, as messy as possible with each other as excess.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: And then in this as well, like Rachel is in
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: this interesting dynamic with both her husband and this other
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: man and this like really tightly knit Oasis Springs community
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: where like everyone is watching and surveilling you for your
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: best behavior. So there's some element of like we're being
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: messy in plain sight that I just think is like interesting,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: it's juicy, Like that makes a summer read for me,
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: something that's like also like fast and fun to read.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I like I like there to be
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: that really visceral element. I like to feel like the
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: character are really embodied on the page. I like to feel.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it is about summer. I guess
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: it's that, like in the heat, you're more aware of
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: your own like corporal form. Like, yeah, to get too
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: philosophical about this. I like the messiness, like messiness physically. Also,
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I like to feel. I think that that's kind of
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: what makes like a dream summer read for me. Yes,
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: I think it also depends on what kind of summer
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: activity you're into. I feel like you could use this
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: as like a psychological test of like what like a
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: BuzzFeed quiz of like what vacation should you take this
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: summer or whatever? Right, because like I picked one that's
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: a European jaunt, like I'm not really I love a
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: beach but I'm not often like a lay on the
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: beach type person versus like beatriate. It's like if you
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: love like a lake.
• 27:50
  Speaker 6: Jet skis versus river cruises versus road trip road trips.
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: I was also thinking about Alicia Thompson's last book, Never
• 27:59
  Speaker 6: Been Never Been Shit sat on a cruise ship and
• 28:02
  Speaker 6: is also, by the way, a sexy book, like really
• 28:04
  Speaker 6: hot book.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: I haven't read it because I have a mental hang
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: up about cruises.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: And I think that's real and fair.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Love in the time of hantavirus.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, love in the time of antavirus challenging. However, I
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: will say she's so good about being like, cruises are
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: kind of weird, okay, and that's part of what makes
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: this so fun and interesting. Like what a weird setting,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: like a city out on the water weird, but lots
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: of fun sexy stuff is going to happen.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: And I will add it to my summer reading list
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: and hopefully read it in a pool somewhere, but probably
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: realistically sweating it out in the New York City streets.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you for sharing your Rex, Tyler, I think.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: That's the show.
• 28:45
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• 28:48
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