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Cars Can Track Our Driving Habits: Who owns that data, and what's being done with it? · Thinking Transportation: Engaging Conversations about Transportation Innovations

• 0:14
  Bernie Fette (host): Hello and welcome.
• 0:16
  Bernie Fette (host): This is Thinking Transportation-- conversations about how we get ourselves and the things we need from one place to another.
• 0:24
  Bernie Fette (host): I'm Bernie Fette with the Texas A&M Transportation Institute.
• 0:29
  Bernie Fette (host): The newest cars on the road today-- those referred to as connected vehicles-- generate data at staggering rates.
• 0:37
  Bernie Fette (host): At least 25 gigabytes an hour.
• 0:40
  Bernie Fette (host): And that number is growing.
• 0:42
  Bernie Fette (host): Auto engineers and other professionals today have access to information that was out of reach only a few years ago.
• 0:48
  Bernie Fette (host): That includes knowledge about the car's performance, and the driver's performance, too.
• 0:54
  Bernie Fette (host): We've reached a point now where collecting that data is the easy part.
• 0:59
  Bernie Fette (host): Figuring out exactly what to do with it is another matter.
• 1:03
  Bernie Fette (host): Our guest today has some thoughts on that.
• 1:07
  Bernie Fette (host): Shawn Turner is a senior research engineer at TTI, where he works to advance the use of high-quality data to support transportation planning, performance management, and traffic monitoring.
• 1:19
  Bernie Fette (host): Welcome, Shawn.
• 1:21
  Shawn Turner (guest): Thank you.
• 1:22
  Shawn Turner (guest): Happy to be here.
• 1:23
  Shawn Turner (guest): Happy to talk about data.
• 1:25
  Bernie Fette: And data as it relates to our driver behavior, right?
• 1:30
  Shawn Turner: That's right.
• 1:32
  Bernie Fette: Yeah.
• 1:32
  Bernie Fette: So it doesn't seem all that long ago on that point that if we chose to exceed the speed limit, even by just a little bit, or roll through a stop sign, or if we had to suddenly jump on the brakes...
• 1:45
  Bernie Fette: if nobody else saw it, then it never really happened.
• 1:49
  Bernie Fette: But thanks to modern auto technology, that's not the case anymore, is it?
• 1:55
  Shawn Turner: Yeah.
• 1:55
  Shawn Turner: So that's sort of true in that there are digital bread crumbs, so to speak, of our driving behaviors and patterns.
• 2:05
  Shawn Turner: I guess the part that I, I sort of caveat that is the digital bread crumbs exist.
• 2:10
  Shawn Turner: It's doubtful that it's ever gonna be used for enforcement.
• 2:13
  Shawn Turner: 'Cause I think that's one of the concerns that people have is, oh my gosh, now there's a record of something that I did that was wrong or illegal, or it was my fault.
• 2:25
  Shawn Turner: But in all likelihood, it's doubtful that those digital breadcrumbs are ever gonna be used for enforcement purposes.
• 2:33
  Shawn Turner: And so I don't think people should be concerned about that.
• 2:36
  Shawn Turner: The other thing that I would say about this is that in all likelihood, the cars of the future are probably gonna help us.
• 2:48
  Shawn Turner: And, and in fact, in some cases may prevent us from executing some of our bad habits.
• 2:54
  Bernie Fette: Then what is it that the cars are noting about our driver behavior, about those habits?
• 2:59
  Bernie Fette: What are they making note of?
• 3:01
  Shawn Turner: So some of the most common things are cars will keep a record of when we jam on our brakes, cars will keep track of when do we punch the accelerator?
• 3:13
  Shawn Turner: When do cars drift outta the lane?
• 3:16
  Shawn Turner: When do they drift basically over a lane line?
• 3:20
  Shawn Turner: And so part of the reason why the cars are recording this is because the car manufacturers are creating and in some cases have already created safety features that aim to prevent this from happening in the future.
• 3:37
  Shawn Turner: And so basically this data they're collecting, they want to improve the safety functions in the car.
• 3:44
  Shawn Turner: That's one of the primary reasons why that's being collected.
• 3:48
  Bernie Fette: Okay.
• 3:48
  Bernie Fette: And that answers my question about what the cars and the keepers of that data are doing with all of that data.
• 3:54
  Bernie Fette: You've just given us one example, what else, what could we be doing with that data?
• 4:01
  Bernie Fette: Is this where other product development comes into the picture?
• 4:04
  Shawn Turner: Absolutely.
• 4:05
  Shawn Turner: So I mentioned in the previous example where the car manufacturers are saving that data because they want to improve the safety features within that car.
• 4:17
  Shawn Turner: For example, lane keeping assist-- whenever your steering wheel vibrates, like it just ran over a rumble strip whenever you cross a lane line without your turn signal on.
• 4:29
  Shawn Turner: So we can improve the car.
• 4:31
  Shawn Turner: But guess what?
• 4:32
  Shawn Turner: These cars aren't just driving in a vacuum, these cars are driving on roads that can have imperfections-- that can have challenges.
• 4:41
  Shawn Turner: And that's the other part.
• 4:42
  Shawn Turner: And that's where TTI and departments of transportation get involved because the car manufacturers are making the cars better.
• 4:51
  Shawn Turner: We wanna make the roads better.
• 4:52
  Shawn Turner: We wanna make the roads safer.
• 4:54
  Shawn Turner: And so we can use this data to identify where are people jamming on the brakes a lot?
• 5:01
  Shawn Turner: And is there something that needs to be improved in the road?
• 5:04
  Shawn Turner: Is it a visibility issue?
• 5:06
  Shawn Turner: Is it a signing issue?
• 5:08
  Bernie Fette: Okay.
• 5:09
  Bernie Fette: So who is it that has ownership of all of that data?
• 5:13
  Bernie Fette: Is it just the automakers that own it, or do transportation departments have any claim on that data?
• 5:20
  Shawn Turner: It's a little bit of a wild west in terms of data ownership.
• 5:27
  Shawn Turner: In the past, data ownership has been a little bit fuzzy in terms of who owns the data and who has the right to use it, but that's changing as different jurisdictions, different countries, different states recognize the need to better define this in data privacy laws.
• 5:49
  Shawn Turner: For example, in Europe, they were one of the first to recognize the need for data privacy legislation, and clearly defining who owns data in what circumstances.
• 6:00
  Shawn Turner: And they did that through this law called GDPR or general data protection regulations.
• 6:08
  Shawn Turner: And California is one of the first states that has done that in the U.S.
• 6:13
  Shawn Turner: And other states are discussing data privacy legislation in the same way.
• 6:18
  Shawn Turner: In fact, Texas did in the most recent legislative session.
• 6:23
  Shawn Turner: But to answer your question directly, in most cases, the owner of the registered vehicle, they own the data that's generated.
• 6:33
  Shawn Turner: However,, whenever someone buys a new car, they get handed the stack of paperwork.
• 6:42
  Shawn Turner: One of the pieces of paper that's in there is a form that says, do you give this car manufacturer the rights to use your data?
• 6:54
  Shawn Turner: In other words, do you opt into data being collected from your car?
• 6:59
  Shawn Turner: Some people are more careful than others.
• 7:01
  Shawn Turner: And then they read that when they sign it.
• 7:04
  Shawn Turner: Some people they see a big stack of papers.
• 7:06
  Shawn Turner: Okay.
• 7:06
  Shawn Turner: Yep.
• 7:07
  Shawn Turner: Sign that, sign that, sign that.
• 7:08
  Shawn Turner: And they don't realize that they have the right to opt out or they don't realize that they've basically said, Hey, you have the right to use my data for the purposes of improving safety features.
• 7:23
  Shawn Turner: But it's in very general terms.
• 7:26
  Bernie Fette: And regardless of the reason, the person who's buying that car is relinquishing the right to that information,
• 7:31
  Shawn Turner: Correct.
• 7:32
  Shawn Turner: They're basically giving a broad set of rights to the car manufacturer.
• 7:37
  Shawn Turner: There is a huge data ecosystem and there are hundreds, if not thousands of companies that are making money on reselling data and packaging and aggregating and adding value to that data.
• 7:50
  Shawn Turner: And so in some cases, the car manufacturers may try to monetize that data.
• 7:57
  Shawn Turner: They might send it along to an aggregator who then this aggregator might work with several different car manufacturers.
• 8:04
  Bernie Fette: The whole ownership thing is evolving.
• 8:06
  Bernie Fette: One of the things that I haven't heard you mention that I was wondering about is all of those cars that are collecting the data, they're collecting it on for the most part, public thoroughfares-- an infrastructure that was paid for, with public money, which made me wonder if, if, if that automatically gave any rights of ownership to the agencies that put those roads there, where the cars are collecting the data.
• 8:31
  Shawn Turner: That is not really part of the mix yet.
• 8:34
  Shawn Turner: And so one of the things that's happening is, so you're correct in that these private cars are operating on a public right-of-way, but what's happening right now is the cars are not talking to the public right-of-way.
• 8:51
  Shawn Turner: The cars are actually talking and transmitting data to a private cloud.
• 8:58
  Shawn Turner: Okay?
• 8:58
  Bernie Fette: Important distinction.
• 8:59
  Bernie Fette: Yeah.
• 8:59
  Shawn Turner: And right now DOTs are talking and some are trying to get out what we call roadside units.
• 9:06
  Shawn Turner: They're trying to put smarts out along the public roads that will be able to talk to the cars.
• 9:12
  Shawn Turner: They're trying to get to the point where they can put the ability for traffic signals to talk to the cars.
• 9:20
  Shawn Turner: And when that happens, then yes.
• 9:23
  Shawn Turner: Whenever a traffic signal talks to a car, that's a public traffic signal, the communications between the traffic signal and the car.
• 9:31
  Shawn Turner: Yes.
• 9:31
  Shawn Turner: That is now essentially owned by public agencies that maintain the traffic signals.
• 9:38
  Bernie Fette: And I don't wanna spend too much time on the privacy thing, but I know that that's a big part of the puzzle that you're working with.
• 9:44
  Bernie Fette: One thing that comes to mind is that we can be somewhat selective about the data that we share from our smartphones.
• 9:51
  Bernie Fette: We can opt out.
• 9:53
  Bernie Fette: Drivers don't necessarily have a similar freedom right now with car-generated data, do they?
• 9:58
  Shawn Turner: They sort of do, but it's hidden.
• 10:02
  Shawn Turner: And that is one of the things that is changing with privacy legislation.
• 10:06
  Bernie Fette: Okay.
• 10:06
  Shawn Turner: So what's happening is that the legislation is essentially requiring businesses to make it more transparent about what data is being collected from you when, and essentially gives you the ability to, at any point in time, see what data a company has on you mm-hmm.
• 10:29
  Shawn Turner: But again, that legislation is only in a couple of states and it's not universal everywhere, but there is a movement, again, the recognition that consumers have rights and what those rights are and make sure they're aware of it.
• 10:46
  Shawn Turner: The other piece that I wanna mention is consumers have a responsibility and that's, I that's really important.
• 10:53
  Shawn Turner: It's not all just on the private companies.
• 10:56
  Shawn Turner: Consumers have a responsibility to be aware of these things.
• 11:00
  Shawn Turner: So like for example, many people download an app and right as they're installing it, they get this screen that most people just sort of gloss right over say, yeah, I accept it.
• 11:13
  Shawn Turner: But, they have the responsibility to sort of know what's in there.
• 11:17
  Shawn Turner: They have the responsibility to once apps are installed, they can easily go-- whether it's, uh, whether it's on an Apple device or on an Android device-- they can go in and check what apps are reporting my location, what information is being shared by my apps and when.
• 11:36
  Bernie Fette: I think you may have addressed this whenever you brought up the issue of responsibility, but I wonder what do you say to someone who really doesn't want anyone to know where they went, or how well or how poorly they drove when they were going to wherever it was that they were going?
• 11:54
  Shawn Turner: Yeah, that's possible.
• 11:56
  Shawn Turner: , that's possible, but it's challenging.
• 11:59
  Shawn Turner: There's really,, I'll say there's two options.
• 12:03
  Shawn Turner: One is they can read every line of fine print that they're ever asked to sign or agree to.
• 12:09
  Shawn Turner: And because again, in all cases, they either, they don't have to download an app.
• 12:17
  Shawn Turner: They don't have to opt in to data being collected from them.
• 12:21
  Shawn Turner: But a consumer has to be careful about what they're agreeing to, what they're using, because here's the thing: These things give us all these conveniences.
• 12:31
  Shawn Turner: But in order to get personalization, companies and apps typically have to collect some data from you, they have to learn about you.
• 12:38
  Bernie Fette: So that's a trade.
• 12:40
  Shawn Turner: Yeah, it is.
• 12:41
  Shawn Turner: So you either have to read every line, the fine print, or you can just not get all these new features.
• 12:47
  Shawn Turner: You can buy a 20 year old car.
• 12:50
  Shawn Turner: You can get a burner cell phone.
• 12:52
  Shawn Turner: You don't have to use toll roads.
• 12:53
  Shawn Turner: But again, it's that trade-off of you don't necessarily have the modern-day conveniences of personalization.
• 13:02
  Shawn Turner: And I think people need to be informed that there is a trade-off.
• 13:06
  Shawn Turner: The trade-off is a bot collects information about me, but that bot does good things for me.
• 13:13
  Shawn Turner: Is it worth it?
• 13:14
  Shawn Turner: And again, in large part, you can control that.
• 13:17
  Shawn Turner: You can opt out.
• 13:18
  Shawn Turner: But I think part of it is I opt into certain things because I want to improve things.
• 13:25
  Shawn Turner: You know?
• 13:25
  Shawn Turner: So like I, when I install software, that's part of the standard agreement screen.
• 13:30
  Shawn Turner: Hey, can we collect data from you?
• 13:32
  Shawn Turner: Because we wanna improve a product.
• 13:34
  Shawn Turner: Absolutely.
• 13:35
  Shawn Turner: I want you to have a better product.
• 13:37
  Shawn Turner: And so in the same way, I'm willing to offer up my driving data because I want for the road authorities, for the departments of transportation, to see where there are problems, to see where drivers maybe are having problems with seeing things on the road or where there's problem areas that need to be addressed.
• 13:57
  Shawn Turner: So there's kind of this social responsibility of sharing my data to make better conditions in the public realm.
• 14:05
  Bernie Fette: Yeah.
• 14:05
  Bernie Fette: Social responsibility is one of the phrases I had in mind.
• 14:09
  Bernie Fette: Perhaps oversimplifying, but for the price of a small, personal sacrifice, we can help to ensure greater public good.
• 14:17
  Shawn Turner: That's exactly right.
• 14:18
  Shawn Turner: And there are certain traffic apps that are really important that are based on that principle.
• 14:25
  Shawn Turner: So one of them is it's actually quite popular.
• 14:27
  Shawn Turner: It's called Waze.
• 14:28
  Shawn Turner: And Waze basically asks people to report traffic crashes or incidents that affect other people so that other drivers can have better information about incidents that are gonna affect their commute or their drive.
• 14:43
  Bernie Fette: And there's an example of that greater public good.
• 14:46
  Shawn Turner: Absolutely.
• 14:47
  Bernie Fette: You've also made mention of the promise, very clear, that all of this data can serve useful purposes for us in lots of ways.
• 14:56
  Bernie Fette: To realize that, what needs to happen going forward with all of the players?
• 15:01
  Bernie Fette: The auto manufacturers, the public agencies-- what needs to happen to fully realize the great potential that you're describing here?
• 15:08
  Shawn Turner: Yeah.
• 15:08
  Shawn Turner: That's a,, that's, that's a big question in part, because there's a lot of players involved.
• 15:15
  Shawn Turner: Um, you know, it's not just the vehicle owners, the car makers and the transportation departments.
• 15:21
  Shawn Turner: One of the things that we've talked about relates to privacy, and one of the things that needs to happen is we need to have more universal legislation across different states to make sure that consumers are informed, protected, and that they're aware of this trade-off.
• 15:41
  Shawn Turner: I've mentioned California being one of the states, other states are talking about it, but we almost need to have something that's national and that doesn't vary from state to state.
• 15:51
  Bernie Fette: So something that's follows some kind of a model.
• 15:54
  Shawn Turner: Yes, absolutely.
• 15:55
  Shawn Turner: In some respects, we have that right now for traffic laws.
• 15:58
  Bernie Fette: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:00
  Shawn Turner: And so having something that's universal from state to state that is the same for data.
• 16:06
  Bernie Fette: In the same way that the standards by which you build a highway don't change whenever you drive from Texas to Oklahoma.
• 16:13
  Shawn Turner: Exactly.
• 16:14
  Shawn Turner: And so one of the biggest things that need to happen is that we on the public agency side need to recognize the potential of this data and start working to take advantage of it because this is really revolutionary change in how public agencies have collected data.
• 16:34
  Shawn Turner: Traditionally, public agencies have collected data by going out to the roadways by putting out their own sensors.
• 16:42
  Shawn Turner: But in fact, there's privately-owned sensors that are driving around every day, millions of them collecting useful data mm-hmm and lots of data.
• 16:53
  Shawn Turner: So we need to hire more data scientists in our transportation agencies, and we need to be open to using these newer data sources that maybe we didn't collect, but it still gives us very valuable information.
• 17:07
  Shawn Turner: We need to get these cars talking to the infrastructure more.
• 17:12
  Shawn Turner: I mentioned that earlier, right now these cars are talking to private clouds and therefore the public agency has to pay for, has to license this data from private companies.
• 17:23
  Shawn Turner: We don't have to pay for the data if we can put out the sensors in our traffic signals and alongside the road where we can collect our own data.
• 17:33
  Shawn Turner: Right.
• 17:33
  Shawn Turner: And so that would help.
• 17:35
  Shawn Turner: And I guess the final thing that I'll come back to is in all this, we need to make sure that consumers are informed and protected.
• 17:43
  Shawn Turner: Otherwise this all can crumbling down.
• 17:46
  Shawn Turner: Because somebody influential finds out, oh my gosh, they're collecting this data.
• 17:51
  Shawn Turner: Even though I signed away my right to it.
• 17:53
  Shawn Turner: I didn't realize it.
• 17:55
  Shawn Turner: And I, now I'm mad and I'm gonna put the kibosh on the whole thing.
• 17:59
  Shawn Turner: No, we need to make sure that that doesn't happen.
• 18:01
  Shawn Turner: That consumers are informed that they're protected, that they recognize that trade-off.
• 18:06
  Bernie Fette: Several decades ago, this country started to remake surface transportation in the form of the Interstate Highway System.
• 18:15
  Bernie Fette: And that transformed how we move ourselves and the stuff that we need from one place to another every day.
• 18:23
  Bernie Fette: Are we potentially witnessing the next transformative phase right now with what we've been talking about?
• 18:29
  Shawn Turner: I think we are.
• 18:30
  Shawn Turner: I mean, it's 60 years ago.
• 18:32
  Shawn Turner: It was the Interstate Highway.
• 18:35
  Shawn Turner: Now it's the information highway and it really is a revolutionary change in the type and the amount of information that we're gathering on our transportation system.
• 18:47
  Shawn Turner: And I think if we do the right things to capture that potential, it it's gonna have huge, huge changes on transportation.
• 18:56
  Shawn Turner: And in fact, I think consumers and travelers, they're starting to see this already.
• 19:01
  Shawn Turner: Whenever you can pull up your phone and at the tap of a couple buttons, have a car share show up at your door.
• 19:10
  Shawn Turner: It's only gonna continue from there.
• 19:13
  Bernie Fette: There's an awful lot to consider and learn and understand here.
• 19:17
  Bernie Fette: What do you hope that people will remember most clearly from our conversation today?
• 19:23
  Shawn Turner: I think the biggest thing that I would like for our public sector listeners for those folks that are in departments of transportation to remember is there's already a lot of data being collected from connected cars that we can use.
• 19:41
  Shawn Turner: We are not collecting it.
• 19:42
  Shawn Turner: Right now, private companies are collecting it and we may have to pay a little bit of money for that, but it can help us a lot.
• 19:49
  Shawn Turner: And in fact, we're already seeing some pretty big gains just from some early research that we've done.
• 19:55
  Shawn Turner: And so that's one of the biggest things is that the connected cars here, it's not talking to our infrastructure yet.
• 20:02
  Shawn Turner: We're not getting it for free, but there's a lot of data that's available.
• 20:07
  Bernie Fette: I'm making this observation, not just on our conversation today, but on conversations we've had previously, and just watching the work that you and your colleagues have been doing.
• 20:17
  Bernie Fette: You certainly don't seem to have much trouble mustering enthusiasm for what you do.
• 20:23
  Bernie Fette: I, I think it was your own reference, whenever you said that you considered yourself to be an evangelist, right?
• 20:31
  Shawn Turner: Y yeah, I am a data nerd.
• 20:33
  Shawn Turner: I get excited.
• 20:34
  Shawn Turner: Sometimes I wonder if, if I, if I scare people whenever I get emphatic and excited.
• 20:41
  Shawn Turner: I think that's a good thing.
• 20:42
  Shawn Turner: And I think I've earned the title of data evangelist within TTI, just for the enthusiasm that I show, because here's what I've learned, is that when you get excited, you have the potential to get other people excited about your ideas.
• 20:58
  Shawn Turner: Um, if, if I were to sit here and talk dry with no expression, I don't think I would have the same reception as when I get excited.
• 21:10
  Bernie Fette: So what is it more than anything else that makes you excited about going to work every day?
• 21:14
  Shawn Turner: Being able to affect change.
• 21:18
  Shawn Turner: Being able to see it, it, it may be small improvements here and there.
• 21:24
  Shawn Turner: And so I talk about, and I, I think about there's these small evolutionary things.
• 21:29
  Shawn Turner: We've evolved.
• 21:30
  Shawn Turner: We make something slightly better, but then there are chances that come along every so often where you can make not an evolutionary, but a revolutionary change.
• 21:41
  Shawn Turner: Basically you can take a big jump forward.
• 21:45
  Shawn Turner: And I think that's what we have now with this connected car data is we have the chance to take big steps forward, bigger than what we've taken in the past.
• 21:54
  Shawn Turner: We just need to take advantage of it.
• 21:56
  Bernie Fette: It's okay if you scare people a little bit, just don't scare the people that might be willing to give you research funding, you know?
• 22:03
  Shawn Turner: There you go.
• 22:06
  Bernie Fette: Shawn Turner, senior research engineer at TTI and self-described data evangelist.
• 22:13
  Bernie Fette: Thank you, Shawn, for joining us.
• 22:15
  Bernie Fette: Thank you for sharing your insights and your vision.
• 22:17
  Shawn Turner: Thank you for having me.
• 22:19
  Shawn Turner: As you can see, it's always, it's always a pleasure to talk about data.
• 22:25
  Bernie Fette: Some technology experts say that data is the new oil.
• 22:30
  Bernie Fette: But to fully appreciate that comparison, remember that we've been here before.
• 22:35
  Bernie Fette: In 1901, the Spindletop gusher in Southeast Texas blew oil 100 feet into the air for nine straight days.
• 22:43
  Bernie Fette: By the time it was capped, the well had created a huge lake of crude oil before anyone had a clear sense of what to do with it.
• 22:51
  Bernie Fette: Similarly, today we find ourselves awash in a commodity, the value and utility of which has yet to be fully understood or harnessed.
• 23:02
  Bernie Fette: Thank you for listening.
• 23:04
  Bernie Fette: We hope you'll be back for our next episode and a conversation with Eva Shipp, an epidemiologist at TTI, who's working to enhance the safety training programs for truck drivers-- for their own wellbeing and by extension for the rest of us who share the roads with them.
• 23:22
  Bernie Fette: Thinking Transportation is a production of the Texas A&M Transportation Institute, a member of the Texas A&M University System.
• 23:31
  Bernie Fette: The show is edited and produced by Chris Pourteau.
• 23:34
  Bernie Fette: I'm your writer and host Bernie Fette.
• 23:37
  Bernie Fette: Thanks again for listening.
• 23:39
  Bernie Fette: We'll see you next time.