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ADHDtime on Air: Empowering ADHD Parents · ADHDtime On Air

• Daniella Karidi, PhD: Hi, thank you so much everyone for joining me today, ADHD Time on Air. We're going to be talking with the founder of Order Out of Chaos and someone I love, love, love, love going to conferences with, love talking about ADHD with, and just like find her an amazing human. So you guys are so lucky to hear a bit about things she does and her advice and her insights. She wrote an amazing book, how to do it, because it's leslie: so much everyone for joining me today, H H D time on Air. And someone I love, love, love, love going to conferences with, love talking about ADHD with, and just like find her an amazing human. So you guys are so lucky to hear a bit about things she does and her advice and her insights. She wrote an amazing book, how to do it, because it's not going anywhere. And she also is the founder of Order of Kim. Hi. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Going anywhere, and she also is the founder of Order and of Chaos. Hi. leslie: I love being here with you. This is gonna be fun. We're gonna have a really good conversation. So everybody energy level up. We're gonna cover a lot of things. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Thank you so much. Well, let's start with. I'm a parent and I have a kid with ADHD. What am I getting wrong? leslie: Well, let's start with I'm a parent and I have a kid with ADHD. What am I getting wrong? ⁓ wait, wow. ⁓ I I don't that's a very big and loaded question. And I'm gonna say this right off the bat to parents. So I've been doing this for you said it, I own order out of chaos, and you know, our mission is to support parents and professionals who are raising neurodivergent children, and I've been doing this for twenty-three years. I do not like the words wrong or right. I I don't. I feel like they're nebulous. I don't really tell you what to do. ⁓ so I don't know what you're doing wrong because I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I think that sometimes we're misguided. I think sometimes we use language we shouldn't be using. And I think that the more educated we are, the more power you have as a parent as well as your child. So if I had to distill it down, I would say that language. Is probab for me, you might not agree, but language for me is the number one tool that you have that you can change, that you yourself can change. It doesn't cost you a cent, and you can do it immediately. And you could start even with words like wrong or right. I feel that any words that are vague or don't really give you that don't specifically say what it is you want to say. You need to get out of your vocabulary. And words that are harmful and unproductive, it's a really good word. We say it in my house, unproductive, words like lazy, right? Like to me, that word is not not I want I don't want you using words like that. What I really want you to think about is labeling the behavior and not the child. So I'm that's that's really what we teach a daughter out of chaos, is we don't Daniella Karidi, PhD: Love that. leslie: It's not you're lazy, it's it looks like you're having a hard time sustaining effort or right, or God, you're you know, you're I don't even like using the word. It makes me upset. Like, you know, we don't like the word stupid or we or or even combative. We like you're having a hard time right now hearing me or having this conversation. Labeling the behavior will allow your kid to actually keep his down. And actually hear you. I mean, that was a very big question, and I tried to distill it into the one thing I think parents need to hear. But language and how you communicate with your child to me is your number one go-to tool. I appreciate that. That that's a great insight. ⁓ Thank you. If I have a question that comes up a lot in our groups, ⁓ is one about how we treat differently different age groups. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I appreciate that. That's that's a great insight. ⁓ if I have a question that comes up a lot in my groups, ⁓ is one about how we treat differently different age groups. So we raise kids, they start small, they get big. Yes. leslie: So we raise kids, they start small, they get big. No, they do. My kids are very big. Yes. And and then and and then the responsibility as parents also kind of shifts and changes. Yes. Give us a bit of insight of how we can A adjust our behavior for our changing child. And what are the things that we can look for to help our kids better in those different changes? Okay. So there's a lot there too. There's a lot to unpack. So I want to kind of do it. Daniella Karidi, PhD: And and then it and then the responsibility as parents also kind of shifts and changes. So give us a bit of insight of how we can A adjust our behavior for our changing child and what are the things that we can look for to help our kids better in those different changes. leslie: in order so it makes sense. So the first thing that I think is important for every parent to understand, particularly if you have a kid that is neurodiverse. So your child has two ages. There's your and it's funny, I for those of you who might know me, we give webinars to our community monthly or every other month. No matter what the topic is, I always start with executive age and I find it a head scratcher, sorry, I'm I might be saying things that are not very nice, but that Somebody gives your child that diagnosis and you're sitting across from that medical professional and they do never explain to you what executive age is. And to me, that is a head scratcher. You have to understand executive age to truly understand your child's diagnosis and where they are. So reader's digest version, right? Your child, if you know me, you know I talk like that. Your child has two ages. There's their chronological age, right? They're 13 and they're 13 and all their 13-ness. Right? You all know what that means, right? Maybe verbally, socially, athletically, creatively, whatever it is. But then they have an executive age, and your executive age is your brain-based age. So if your child has any type of executive functioning challenges, and if they have ADHD, they automatically have executive functioning challenges. So we're looking at things like organizing, time, focus, effort, working, memory, all of those things. They're going to be about 30% less their chronological age for that challenge. So it doesn't mean they have all of those challenges. I want to make that clear. Your kid could be time blind, but organized. Your kid could have okay working memory, but very difficult mood regulation. But they will be about 30% less. So your 13-year-old will be nine. So it's not about the age, it's not about, I have a middle schooler. And they should be able to do this. It's I have a 13-year-old who has these challenges, so they're nine when it comes to initiating or time or even remembering to remember. That's how we talk about working memory in my world. I like that better. So that's that's where we have to start, is not at, okay, I automatically have a middle schooler, therefore I should be hands-off. It's really what is your child challenged with and where can I meet them where they live. Okay. With that being said, did we all get that? Okay. I just did about an hour webinar. I just want you to know in 90 seconds. But that's right. I I I'm good at the main idea. I did very well in school on main ideas. So that's important. Step one. Step two is I am a big, big, big, big believer. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Great summary. leslie: Particularly if you have a neurodiverse kid, hear me out. It is that your job, and I use the word job for a reason, as the parent to set the parameter. Okay. But it's your child's job to determine how, right? Or what we say is negotiate. That's their job. So I want you to give your children as many decisions as you can make. Now, obviously, the younger they are, the smaller. The scale. Hey, homework, you know, four o'clock, four fifty. Well, I don't do anything on the I do everything on an odd number because it's more engaging to the brain. Hey, homework, four ⁓ seven or four nineteen. To me, that's appropriate for an eight, nine-year-old, right? As they get older, your choices are going to get bigger. The parameters are going to get bigger. So that to me is more how I view it. It's a scale, not so much by age. But as responsibility and capability. The other thing you're going to do is you're gonna kind of lose the language of you need to, I want you to, and you have to, because that's gonna shut down your child at any age. What we want to do is give our children, particularly those that are neurodiverse, ownership and agency. And this is research proven. I've been doing this for 23 years. A lot of my stuff is Leslie proven. This is scientifically backed research. And what we know from this research is that the more agency, the more choice and control that we give our kids, the less anxious they are and the more motivated they are. I want to say it again. The more agency, the more ownership, the more choice, the more do you want this or want this? Do you want to do this Saturday morning or Friday night? Do you want to do it at 4 or 4:30? The less anxious. they will be and the more motivated they will be. So I I don't want to get into the minutia of what that looks like at every age because I know we're short for time, but I want to give you that 36,000 level view of how you need to be structuring your participation and the age appropriateness for it. I love that. I will add that I'm tired. I will add that that is true when you're caring for older adults. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I love that. ⁓ I will add that that is true when I will add that that is true when you're caring for older adults too. I hear that a lot from the people I work with that are the older generation that are caring for their parents and their parents feel that they lost agency and control of their life. And your job sometimes is just helping them get choices back into their life. leslie: too. Yeah. ⁓ the people I work with that are the older generation that are caring for their parents and their parents feel that they lost agency and control of their life. And your job sometimes is just helping them get choices back into their life. A hundred percent. And I think that's how you do it. I think even as a pa look, I we talk about this all the time in our groups. It's it's not about a free-for-all. You're not saying hey whenever you want. I really want to make that clear. But it's a I love that. I want you to remember that mantra. It's your job to set the parameter, it's your child's job to negotiate it. So and when I say that, people go, that I can remember. It's a great, like I hear Leslie on my shoulder. My job, my job to set a parameter, his job, his or her, or they job to to negotiate it. It is their job. That actually, that's how they probably. I find that fascinating. Like we're so intended. We want our kids to be problem solvers, right? We don't want them to be direction followers. We want them to be resilient and figure things out. The only way they're going to do that is if you give them choice and control within a parameter you feel comfortable with. Yes. And I think that that also adds to the next part. At some point you need to change that. You need to also pay attention when your kid has grown above that step. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes. And and I think that that also adds to the next part. At some point you need to ⁓ change that. You need to also pay attention when your kid has grown above that step, that they are now capable to increase their choices and increase their options. leslie: That they are now capable to increase their choices and increase their options. A hundred percent. Listen, I you might not all agree with me. I am so funny. I have very big, ⁓ I am very, what's the word I'm looking for? Okay with a kid screwing up. And I think what happens is we overmanage and we overcompensate and You know, the term we all have been hearing, the buzzword is this thing called learned helplessness, where the parent is doing too much and the child has just stopped doing because why do I need to? Like I have this I this is not recent, but like years ago, I used to write the column for Attitude Magazine. It was dear ADHD Family Coach. Now I'm really gonna date myself. It was like the Anne Landers or the dear Abbey of the ADHD world. And people would write in questions and I'd answer it. And this Mom wrote, and it was mom and a dad, I want to make that clear both, that their child wouldn't get up on their own in the morning and they would go in five different times and wake them up and turn off the alarm. And I'm like, well, of course your kid isn't getting up. I wouldn't get up if I knew that I had somebody else in my life who had taken over that responsibility for me. Where's my motivation to do so? It becomes a learned helplessness. And Even as an adult, like I have some learned helplessness, but I'm okay with it because I am very executive functioned managed. So when it comes to tech things, I have learned helplessness. But with right? Call it delegation. Okay. But I don't want to. But during COVID, I needed to, so I did it. Right. I think that there's a difference between choosing to delegate versus but your brain is fully developed. We are looking at Daniella Karidi, PhD: I call it delegation. I can make bread, right? I know how to do it, but I don't want to. During COVID, I needed to, so I did it. I think that's there's a difference between choosing to delegate versus d default. leslie: people whose brains are not developed. So we want to really instill. But what we don't look at when we this learned helplessness is the message that we're sending. What message we're sending is you're not capable, right? We're sending these these negative messages that you're not capable. I don't trust you. You're not good enough. And I would much rather see a child try and fail. Yes, fail. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm. leslie: Okay, fail is not a dirty word, friends. Okay, I'm gonna toot my horn for a minute. All right. I went to Cornell University, not a shabby school, and I failed a class. And you know what? It was really good for me. Both my kids, and I have their permission to say this, went to, you know, smart kids, went to, you know, very good for it. Both of them failed a class. You know what? I thought it was the best thing that ever happened to them because they needed to figure it out. It didn't, it It it it didn't, you know, it was okay. They they live to tell the tale. And I would much rather have a kid try and fail or miss an assignment or not do well or miss the bus or I don't know, whatever, get a get a talking to from a from a professor or something or you know, whoever, then you constantly behind them making sure, holding up the scaffolding and making sure that nothing, you know, that they don't feel what might happen. I I think that is way more detrimental. So that's that is not always an opinion everybody agrees with, but that is my I double down. The only time I feel that it is worth a parent really stepping in is if it is a major, major life event. Like if your child is applying early for college, I'm not so sure I want them to miss that deadline because that's a major thing. And if they are doing something with others, like Hey, carpooling, soccer practice, a group project. The other kids should not feel there. So responsible. That's it. Other than that, it's all good for me. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Responsible, yeah. ⁓ when I was a kid, I missed the bus for a school trip. And ⁓ it was an important one. I was a tour guide, and this was gonna be one of my last high school trips as a kid. And my dad was like, I'm driving you. There's three hours to the middle of nowhere where the school was, so I can join, so so I don't miss this trip. And later, years later, I asked him and he says, A, I could relate because I missed so many stuff. leslie: When I was a kid I missed the bus for ⁓ and ⁓ it was an important one that was tour guide and this was gonna be my last high school trips as a kid and my dad was like, I'm driving you. It's three hours to the middle of nowhere where the school was so I can join so so I don't miss this trip. And later, years later I asked him and he says, A, I could relate because I missed so many stuff. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I know that you have tried all your life. This is not a regular activity. And and to add all that he said, like, how many times do I get to spend three hours with my teenager stuck in the car talking with me? leslie: I know that you have tried all your life. This is not a regular Exactly. I agree with that. And to add all that, you said, like, how many times do I get to spend three hours with my teenager stuck in the car talking with people? So I love that because what you brought up is and it and two things can exist at the same time. So your child might miss something and you might say to them, you know what, I see you're working hard. I see that this I'm I'm gonna support you here. But Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. leslie: The lesson is still there. They still feel the fact that they missed something. So I don't think that when you negate it by saying, I'll look, it happened to me. I remember my kids are much older. My kids are 20 and 30 32. Wow. But I remember when my son was in high school and he was in a play and and he had finals or tests and he missed he left something at home and he called me and I literally was like, Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. leslie: An hour and a half away coming back from an overnight speaking engagement. And he said, if I come home, I'm gonna miss. And I said, you know what? So good. I'm gonna bring it to you. And I was, I drove 90 miles an hour on the highway. I got it in time. I I I felt it was again, there's the it was too important for me not to like help him out. I I want you to understand that this is not authoritative. That, but my point is like if your kid is working on something. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. leslie: I your job is not to be standing over their head going, you missed a question. You didn't write enough. It's those things that I need you to step back from so that your child sees what they're capable of, feels capable, and also the school can see what they're capable of. I love that. ⁓ I I'm gonna add a follow-up question about scaffolding. So scaffolding is a very important learning technique. We scaffold little kids, we teach them how to. Daniella Karidi, PhD: I love that. I'm I'm gonna add a follow-up question about scaffolding. So, scaffolding is a very important learning technique. We scaffold little kids, we teach them how to tie their shoes. We don't expect them right away to tie their shoes. We tie it for them for years and then we teach them slowly, and then at some point we let go. And I think that ADHD parents, parents that have ADHD, sometimes struggle in letting that go, figuring out it's the time that we leslie: tie their shoes. We don't expect them right away to tie their shoes. Not at all. Tie for them for years and then we teach them slowly and then at some point we let go. And I think that ADHD parents, parents that have ADHD, sometimes struggle in letting that go, figuring out it's the time that we We need to let go. We got into the habit like we're so used to tying the shoelaces, we can't shift because we have ADHD or good. So what can you suggest Daniella Karidi, PhD: Because we got into the habit, like we're so used to tying the shoelaces, we can't shift because we have ADHD work with it. So what can you suggest to when do we how do we notice when is that stage to let go to like remove the scaffolding or at least release it? leslie: So when do we how do we notice when is that stage to let go to like remove the scaffolding? So I actually talk about it on a four-step process because what happens is so I'm gonna use C so it actually what you're talking about, I'm gonna bring it back a minute, is habit form, habiting, habiting, creating habits. And I get a lot of parents who look at me and go, My kid can't will never be able to form a habit. So I go, well, does your child know how to put a seatbelt on in the car unassisted or un or unprompted? And they're like, yeah, ⁓ yeah, they can they get in the car, they put it on. I'm like, well, then they know, then they know how to develop a habit. And they kind of look at me and I'm like, I never looked at it that way. I'm like, getting in the car and automatically putting on your seatbelt is a habit, right? It's muscle memory. I don't have to think about it anymore. I don't need to prompt them. But it had to start somewhere. So here's my example, and it's four steps. So the first thing that happens, Danielle, to your point is we do it for them. Put your child in the backseat, right? And we put the seatbelt on every single time. So what you're doing is you're actually performing the behavior. You're performing it. Okay, may what happened and then what we assume is we'll do it, and then they should do it. But there's two steps in the middle that we're missing. So the second step is not, okay, I'm done. Hopefully they learned it. The second step is what we call prompting the behavior. You're no longer doing it actually, but you're you are prompting the steps. Okay, hop in the car. Okay, grab your seatbelt. Okay, when it buckles or clicks, you know you're buckled. So you're not physically doing it anymore, but you are prompting the behavior, right? You're you're right. Then once you see that they're They got it going because a lot of is what I like to do is the third step. And you can do this for anything, but these are steps with any type of any type of habit you want to form that I find are greatly missed. The third one is well, we like I love it, is you you ask, but you don't ask. So it's like, hey, what do you need to do before I roll down the driveway? Or hey, what do I need what do you need to be doing before or what do you need to have on you before I back out of the driveway? So if you notice I'm inferring behavior, I'm not telling you what you now need to do. What I want to make sure is that it got into your working memory. And then the last one is like supporting it. If I see that my kid can't do it or they're missing things, what can I have at point of performance? So is it a little chi, you know, on the backseat of the car? Don't forget. Is it whatever it is? But those are your four steps really to ensure a habit is formed. Now. Have to take the time to say this because again, this is research proven. So those are Leslie's four steps. And I use that for everything. I don't care if your kid is eight or eighteen or even 28. But that's how I know because you don't move to the next step until I know that the step prior to that is down. However, to truly, truly, truly solidify a habit, you need a cue, which is your seatbelt. You need a routine, get in the car. But the last thing, and we miss this. Is a reward. This is research proven. This is not Leslie, but we're so focused on tangible rewards, right? We're so focused on, okay, if you do this on Monday, I'll let you have that on Thursday. But for the ADHD brain, that doesn't work. It's too far away. We don't remember it. It's not in my timeline. It's it's like it kind of floats. What is way more effective is emotional rewards. Praise. Don't discount it, friends. Not just, hey, I'm proud of you, but again, we're going back all the way to the beginning of this podcast where we talked about naming behaviors. You've got to label it. What, hey, I noticed you were able to get your seatbelt on this morning without any prompting. Great job. That's immediate. That's right there. That's a positive emotional reward. You know what else is a positive emotional reward? Not getting the wrath of a parent. Not getting yelled at. It's the I know you're laughing, but remember they hear negative messages 50,000 million billion times. So not saying anything is a reward, or naming the behavior and saying something positive about it. Hey, I noticed you were able to get up this morning and I only had a knock on your door twice. Yesterday I had a knock five. That's great improvement. Notice what I did there. That's the key to solidifying habits. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah, I love it. ⁓ I appreciate that insight. And I think that also understanding that our kids are always capable of something, like pointing out, look, they're they they can build habits, ⁓ they can learn, they can create. I think that is an important mindset that we need to come into the equation with. leslie: Yeah, love it. ⁓ I appreciate that insight. And I think that's also understanding that our kids are always capable of something, like pointing out always. They're they they can habits, ⁓ they can learn, they can create. I think that is an important mindset that we need to come into the equation with. I think it's really the thing, and I know I have said so much in the twenty-two minutes and fifty-seven seconds. So I got I want to slow down and I really want to pick one thing. And it's to your point, it's that it's it's really I find as a parent that what we miss constantly, and I'm sorry, I'm not disparaging parents. I am one, I work with hundreds of thousands of parents all the time, is that we lose our curiosity sometimes with a child with our with our kids. And what I mean by curiosity, I don't mean like, well, how did you do on the test curiosity? No. Well, what do you think about that? Do you think that would work for you? Would you be willing to try X? We are so you need to, you want to, you have to, focused that we forget the curiosity part of hey, how do you feel about that? Again, not a free for all. I really want to make that double down clear. I am so not a free for all parent. My kids would tell you if they were sitting here. That I was a very fair parent. And I have a husband and all that, but I I'm the expert, so he kind of deferred to me. But my kids would tell you two things. I was fair and I never moved the goalpost. They were never caught off guard. They knew exactly where they stood, they knew exactly what was expected. And because of that, it made them very calm. So I was consistent. But the biggest thing I really want you to hear me say is be curious. Because curiosity will go a long way. It gives your kids ownership and the agency to say, hey, what is it that will work for me? To your point, like they're capable of something. So we got to dive into that. We have to ask them that. Daniella Karidi, PhD: So today on the internet and the social media world, and there's a lot of information going out about newer diversity and ADHD. And some of it is yeah, okay. I would have go, I was gonna go exaggerated and out of context, but wrong is also true. leslie: So today on on the internet and the social media world and there's a lot of information going out about diversity and ADHD and some of it is wrong. Okay. I told you I don't hold back. I told you I was gonna get exaggerated and out of context. I'm sorry. Wrong. Wrong? I'm sorry. I I I'm not sorry. Why am I apologizing? I'm not sorry. We are experts, we are trained, we are certified, we've been in this field for we know, we know, we we don't and what we don't know, we go to the experts to to find out. So if you had a magic wand and you could fix some of this misinformation about parenting and ADHD, what would be the things you would like to highlight and fix? Ooh. ⁓ that's a very ⁓ my god. ⁓ that's a big question. On parenting and ADHD, I try to narrow it down. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. So if you had a magic wand and you could fix some of this misinformation about parenting and ADHD, what would be the things you would like to highlight and fix? I put it on parenting and ADHD. I try to narrow it down. leslie: ⁓ okay, I I I don't know why this popped into my head. ⁓ I well I don't want to repeat myself, but I feel this is gonna really piss off a lot of people. ⁓ I there it is. I feel that there's a lot of information skewed to now listen, I I I work with parents and I understand that kids are, but I I I feel sometimes yes is yes and no is no and it is what it is and you sit where you sit and you get what you get. And I know that's funny to say, but I feel like a lot of this misinformation is that that we I always say to my my coach about my my parents, do you want do you want like real advice or do you want a hug? And the real advice is that sometimes we have to step into our parenting authority. We have to shut off the emotional vortex. We have to say asked and answered. We have to say I'm not engaging. We have to say that, you know, you you we have to let our kids tantrum. We have to let them have that emotion, but still hold our ground. And a lot of what is out there is the opposite. It's to feed into every emotion. It's to to make it, you know, the most powerful thing going on. And I don't always agree with that. I I agree. I agree about what I said about curiosity and all that, but I don't think every decision in your household, depending on the age, is a discussion. I just don't. Yeah. ⁓ I don't know if I said that correctly, but I I'm trying to be trying to be nice here. I just feel that you are entitled to I I wish parents would realize you Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah. ⁓ if you leslie: Have parenting authority, right? Take control of that. That doesn't mean authoritative, but it means like you are entitled in some of the decisions in your household for them to be just decisions. Not everything, not everything has to be negotiated. Right. So I I always like to to give the example. We grew up with the saying when you pay the taxes, you can make the financial decision. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Right. So I I always like to to give the example. ⁓ we we grew up with the saying, when you pay the taxes, you can make the financial decisions. leslie: So so fascinating. So we tend to skew older in who we work with. We work with a ton of college students. And I am very blunt with parents and I say, if you're giving your child, I don't even care if they're after college, if you're giving any kind of financial support to your child, you have you have say in in in dis in life decisions. You do. But on the flip side, as as we were told that, we were also told here is your budget. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes. Right. But on the flip side, as as we were told that, we were also told here is your budget to do some independent decision making. So that was what I was gonna add. So I was told you don't pay the taxes, so you get you don't get to choose ⁓ how we're gonna paint the house or where the f what we're gonna get, but here's your budget for your color, your room. leslie: To do some independent decision making. I agree. That was what I was gonna add. So I was told you don't pay the taxes, so you get you don't get to choose how we're gonna paint the house or where the what we're gonna get, but here's your budget for your color, your room. Absolutely. Right. I think there's a big difference between those two. So as parents, what we need to negotiate is where that zone lives. So I have we work with a lot of older. Daniella Karidi, PhD: So I think there's a big difference between those two. So as parents, what we need to negotiate is where that zone lives. leslie: like older kids. In fact, we see so many parents. It's it's fascinating what has changed over the years. We are actually working with so many parents whose kids are graduated college and they're the and so they're negotiating now like, well what what is my role? I'm still financially helping. What do I where do I sit there? And I'm and I again I have permission to say this. My my son is twenty eight now, but when he when he was right out of school and he he was working, but he, you know, life is expensive and Daniella Karidi, PhD: ⁓ leslie: Job didn't pay a lot. And so what was important for my husband and I was to give Eli autonomy and ownership over his money. We did not feel that we wanted to be in the weeds. There it is. So exactly to your point. Didn't want to be in the weeds. So we sat down and said, All right, what can we pay for? That is not a discussion, like his like health insurance or a car payment, things that like did not that did not affect his day-to-day. So That is like we figured out our line items, anything health health related, whether it was a doctor's fit, is it medication, therapy, and I have permission. I want to make that clear. I have no, that's important. I have permission. Very important to know that. So anything in that line item and anything car related, we took care of. And that was very good because it ⁓ it's Eli was thankful, but he didn't feel that we were infantilizing him. He still had ownership and agency to take what he was. Daniella Karidi, PhD: It's important. It's very important. leslie: what he made and make the decisions of do I waste it on Uber Eats or do I cook chicken at home? And that's what we were going for. So to your point, that is exactly how you handle it. And again, that's gonna look different for a twenty three year old than it is going to look like for a thirteen. So now that you're parenting adult parents and finished with the stages of life and you are now ⁓ Daniella Karidi, PhD: So now that you're parenting adult parents and finished this like stages of life and you are now ⁓ very experienced in twenty-three years or twenty-four years of experience, what would you go back and tell to young Leslie that was starting as a parent? leslie: very experienced in 23 years or 24 years of experience. What would you go back if LT Young Wesley that was starting as a parent? I would so I'm ⁓ this is I'm really glad you asked that question because I think people think that I was chilled my you know through both. So I I should say this. I I have two kids one is neurotypical and one is neurodiverse and so It's really not about my older daughter. She like, you know, she came out as a 40-year-old. You know what you know the type, right? She came out as a 40 year old. But, you know, Eli was a struggle. And again, nothing I am telling you. He has not, you know. ⁓ I think I w you know, and was very interesting because remember, I'm the expert here. And my husband would say to me, like, just gotta get him, just gotta get him to college. Just gotta get him to college. Because once he hits 18, it's all gonna change. And I think ⁓ the one thing I did right is I was very insistent on making sure he had life skills. I did not give a crap. And yet, and I teach study skills. That is what order atics is known for. I didn't give a crap about study skills. I just didn't. It was way more important for for me that he learn life skills. So can he change a tire? Damn straight. Did he do his laundry at 15? You betcha. Could he make three meals when he was that age? 100%. It was way more important for me that he learned how to navigate life, be on time, make decisions, do his laundry, you know, figure that out. ⁓ but I I wish I just didn't worry as much as I did. I worried so, so very much. that a lot of it was wasted worry. It was wasted worry. And I think you will know your kid. And I think I should have just breathed a little more and said, you know what, it's all gonna figure itself out. And it did. It did. The joke in our house is, you know, he's the most, you know. So he's amazing. So like it worked out. It absolutely worked out. So my follow-up question that I like to ask sure on my podcast is what would you tell future like? Daniella Karidi, PhD: Mm. So my follow up question that I like to ask people on my podcast is what would you tell future Leslie? leslie: About what? About him? About parenting, about life. Here's what I would tell you. So here's what I would tell. Here's what I would tell you. I have two adult children and you don't stop parenting. And that I think what I I think the question more would have been, what like what would I be telling back then Leslie now? And what I wish I I am still amazed at how much parenting Daniella Karidi, PhD: about parenting, about life strategies. So you're told past Leslie to take a deep breath and to to we'll all figure out. Mm. leslie: I am still doing, but very, very differently. Meaning, obviously, my two kids are flown and grown. They live on their own. They have d like they have, you know, but we are s there is still a parenting element, but the parenting element is from them to us, not us to them. So I think what I would tell you is to enjoy your children. I feel insanely blessed. that I have I see saying I that we have two children who live where I live and want to spend time with us. And I feel that in some ways it's harder to parent an adult child, but the rewards are greater because they're adults. So I think we all just need to take the down. Yeah. I just so ⁓ if anyone's listening take a deep breath if Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yeah. So ⁓ if anyone's listening, take a deep breath. If anyone's watching, this is your opportunity to take a deep breath with us. ⁓ Leslie, tell people where they can find you. leslie: Anyone's watching, this is your opportunity to take a deep breath with us. ⁓ Leslie, tell people where they can find you. Okay, so we make it super duper easy for you. The name of my company is Order Out of Chaos. Our website is Order OO Chaos. If you go there, you'll find everything. It'll take you to our products, our books, our classes, our coaching, our socials, ⁓ whatever you need. It's our blogs, all of that are all ⁓ housed there. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Yes, and I get your newsletter and every time I smile. ⁓ and ⁓ thank you so much for your time and for joining me on this podcast and see you again. Thank you. leslie: Yes, and I get your newsletter and every kind of smile. ⁓ and ⁓ thank you so much for your time and for joining me on this podcast. This was so much fun. Thank you. Thanks everybody. I hope you learned something today. Daniella Karidi, PhD: Thank you so much