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Compass vs. MLS: Robert Reffkin's Legal War Could Change Real Estate Forever · Dishin' Dirt with Gary Pickren

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: On September 8, 2026, Compass sent the California Regional MLS a letter challenging its enforcement of rules concerning publicly marketed office exclusive listings.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Essentially, Compass wanted CRMLS to stop penalizing agents who publicly marketed certain exclusive listings without submitting those same properties to the cooperative MLS system.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: And COMPASS gave CRMLS a deadline of October 6th.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Either change your approach or face antitrust litigation.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Now understand what we're talking about here.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: The traditional MLS model is based on cooperation.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: A listing brokerage takes a property listing, they enter the property into the MLS under the applicable rules and makes that listing information available to all other participating brokerages.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: And those brokerages can bring buyers to the property.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: A listing brokerage gets the benefit of a much larger pool of potential buyers.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: The buyer's brokerage gets access to available inventory.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the consumer benefits are a much more transparent marketplace.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: At least that's the theory.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a pretty damn good theory, and it has worked remarkably well for many decades.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now I know the MLS system isn't perfect.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've been involved with MLS systems.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've worked in real estate long enough to know that MLS organizations sometimes make some very questionable decisions.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Some of their rules are outdated, without a doubt, and some rules can be unnecessarily restrictive.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: The MLS organizations absolutely have to comply with antitrust lawsuits.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: But the cooperative nature of the MLS is one of the most important features of the American real estate market.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's why the real estate market in the United States is the greatest market in the world, without doubt, without debate.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: What Compass wants to do is change the relationship between public marketing and MLS participation.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Compass argues that a seller should be able to authorize public advertising through the brokerage's website only without necessarily requiring that listings be shared through the MLS because obviously that's what our clients want.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: They want to limit people knowing about their property.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: But in other words, Compass wants to be able to advertise certain listings publicly while keeping them outside the traditional MLS cooperative system.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And somehow that's in the benefit of the seller.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: That I still haven't understood.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about that from COMPASS' business perspective, you can understand why they might find that attractive.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine if you're a national brokerage with thousands of agents.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine you have a substantial inventory of listings that buyers can discover through your website only, and some of those properties aren't available through the MLS in the same way as other publicly marketed listings.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now consumers actually have a reason to come to your website.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: Other agents have a reason to contact your brokerage, and Compass has the opportunity to establish a direct relationship with buyers interested in those properties.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: That is potentially a very powerful business advantage.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: But here's where the problem begins.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Compass also wants access to the listings other brokerages contribute to the MLS.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So Compass can benefit from the cooperative system while asking for the freedom to withhold certain of its own listings from that very system.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And the CRMLS essentially said, wait a minute, you can't have it both ways.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: So on October 30th, CRMLS publicly rejected COMPASS' demand.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Its position was the MLS cooperative depends on reciprocal sharing.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: CRMLS argued that COMPAS was seeking the benefits of cooperation while avoiding some of the obligations that are associated with it.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the MLS made clear it was prepared to defend its rules in court.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now here's the important distinction.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: The CRMLS says its rules already provide sellers with alternatives for limited exposure, including certain listing arrangements that do not trigger the same cooperation obligations.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So the dispute isn't simply whether a seller can ever choose privacy.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: The dispute is whether a brokerage can take an exclusive listing, then publicly market that listing, and still withhold it from the MLS cooperative without facing enforcement under the MLS's applicable rules.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a much more narrower and more important question.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where this fight begins because COMPASS is saying the MLS should not be allowed to impose its own rules and restrictions.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: The CRMLS is saying those restrictions are in place, in part, to make the cooperative system work.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: And neither side at this point is willing to back down.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to discuss this and a whole lot more on today's episode of Dish and Dirt.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is Dish and Dirt with Gary Pickering, South Carolina's only podcast dedicated to the real estate agent craft.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And now the host of Dish and Dirt, Gary Pickering.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And Greens, and welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Dish and Dirt.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your often opinionated but rarely wrong host, Gary Pickerin, coming in from the beautiful downtown Columbia, South Carolina offices of Blair Cato, Picker, and Castellan, this the third Thursday of October, 2026.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Before we begin, I want to remind you of something I'm very proud of is the YouTube series that you can find on Blair Cato's YouTube page.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Before You Sign.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a series I started a couple of weeks ago where I go through every document that you would ask your consumer to sign in a real estate transaction.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: I started with the buyer agency agreement and now I have done the listing agreement.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Both of those are about 30-minute episodes.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And with each one of those, we'll have companion episodes that will go through frequently asked questions that aren't covered in the full-length video.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have the buyer agency agreement and about five companion videos.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, I'll have about 15, and the same will be for the listing agreement.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: What you need to do is take a look at them, listen to them, and make sure that you're fully aware of all the legal issues that are important to your consumer in those particular documents, and then share those videos with your consumer before you even meet with them so that they will understand all the legal components of these agreements and understand that these are binding contracts between your brokerage and them.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then that way you'll spend more of your time meeting with your consumer explaining the value that you bring to the transaction and how you're going to navigate them through the transaction instead of answering legal questions that I've already answered for you in these videos.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: So take a look at them.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can find them on Blair Cato's YouTube page, and I'll put a link to that in the show notes here today.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now back to the fight.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: This next part of the story I find very fascinating because on September 30th, the same day that CRMLS publicly rejected COMPASS's demand, Robert Refkin appeared at the Council of Multiple Listing Service Open House being held in Fort Lauderdale.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now think about this audience.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: This wasn't an audience full of COMPASS agents.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: This was a gathering of MLS executives and other industry leaders.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: The very people who organization Refkin has been challenging and trying to fight.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And Refkin came with a message.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: According to M News reporting, Refkin told the attendees that Compass intended to begin filing antitrust lawsuits against MLS organizations by mid-October.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And he argued that what Compass wanted was straightforward, the freedom to advertise listings on its own website.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And he made the case that the seller and the law, rather than the MLS, should control how the home is marketed.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now I want to give credit to Refkin here for one thing.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's an effective argument because who wants to be against seller choice?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Who wants to tell a homeowner that a private organization should have more authority over the marketing of that homeowner's property than the homeowner actually does?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody wants to take that position.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I think Refkin's argument leaves out something very important.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: An MLS is not necessarily telling the homeowner what the homeowner can and cannot do with the property.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: An MLS is establishing rules for participating brokerages who voluntarily choose to use its cooperative system.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: You don't like the rules?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Don't join the MLS.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's that simple.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: And those are not automatically the same thing.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: A homeowner can decide to sell a house privately.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: A homeowner can decide not to advertise a property.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: A homeowner can choose a marketing strategy that is consistent with law.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't necessarily mean a brokerage has the unrestricted right to participate in an MLS and disregard its rules of participation.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a legal and practical distinction here.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now back to the conference.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Inman News reported that the room was very tense.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Some attendees actually described the presentation as extremely uncomfortable and said that all Refkin did was read a prepared statement.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And when Robert Refkin characterized Compass's demands as simply wanting to advertise listings on his website, at least one attendee reported that laughter came from the audience.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's not exactly the reaction you want when you're trying to persuade a room full of people who are sitting in front of you.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: One of the most interesting comments came from Colette Stevenson.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: That name may sound familiar to you because she is the CEO of Resides, which is an independent MLS here in Hilton Head, South Carolina, and she's appeared on this show.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I want to emphasize that, South Carolina.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't just some California conversation.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Our own MLS leadership in the state of South Carolina is paying very close attention to what is happening all the way out in California.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Stevenson acknowledged that Refkin has the right to advocate for policies that he believes benefits his companies and his clients.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I agree with that statement.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: But she also raised the question of whether those policies are actually best for the marketplace.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll actually go ahead and answer the question, they're not.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's exactly the issue here.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Just because a business practice benefits COMPAS does not necessarily mean it benefits the broader marketplace.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: And just because COMPASS says something benefits sellers doesn't automatically make that true.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Those claims need to be examined and tested.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Another concern raised at the conference involved the consequence of having more properties marketed outside the MLS.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Think about how we value real estate.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: We look at comparable sales, we look at inventory, market activity.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Appraisers rely on market information, agents rely on market information, economists rely on market information, and consumers themselves rely on market information.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens when a growing percentage of the available inventory is marketed through separate brokerage control channels?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: What happens to the completeness of our market data?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: What happens to transparency?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens when a buyer is working with an independent brokerage that doesn't have the same access to certain properties as agents inside the listing brokerage?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Those are legitimate questions.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now, COMPAS would respond that consumers can still discover listings on its website and that sellers should be able to choose that exposure.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a fair point to consider.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: But public visibility and cooperative access are not identical.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: A property being visible somewhere on the internet doesn't necessarily mean that all agents and all buyers have the same practical opportunity to participate in the purchase and sell of that property.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the details matter.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: What information is available?
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Can outside agents schedule showings?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are there restrictions on access?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are buyers directed toward agents affiliated with the listing brokerage?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is the listing eventually going to be placed on the MLS?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And most importantly, has the seller been fully informed of the potential advantages and disadvantages of this limited marketing plan?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the questions that I've been asking here on Dish and Dirk.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: So now let's get into this lawsuit.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, Compass had given the CRMLS until October 6th to change its enforcement approach.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: But guess what happened?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: On October 5th, the California Regional MLS filed its own lawsuit against COMPASS in federal court.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And here's an interesting detail.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: It filed the lawsuit in the Southern District of New York, not California, New York.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: The lawsuit is California Regional Multiple Listing Service Inc.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: versus COMPASS Inc.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And CRMLS is seeking declaratory relief.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, for those of you who aren't attorneys, let me explain what that means.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: A declaratory judgment action is essentially asking the court to determine the legal rights and obligations of the party.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Rather than wait to be sued and having to defend itself, CRMLS is asking a court to rule on the legality of its cooperation rules.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Specifically, CRMLS is seeking a determination that the challenge rules do not violate the Federal Sherman Act or the California Cartwright Act.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: It also seeks relief that would prevent COMPAS from pursuing the particular antitrust claims CRMLS contends are legally unfounded.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Strategically, the MLS made an important move.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: It refused to simply sit back and wait for COMPASS to dictate the timing of the litigation.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's very significant because this dispute has increasingly become a question of whether MLS organizations are willing to defend the cooperative model.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Now one of the interesting parts of the complaint involved CRMLS's Rule 7.9.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: CRMLS says that in 2025 it issued 89 fines for violations of that rule, only eight of which involved compass agents.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: But in 2026, according to its own findings, the number of cases increased substantially.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: CRMLS reported roughly 300 Rule 7.9 cases during 2026, with approximately 75 involving COMPAS properties.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: If those figures are accurate, they suggest the dispute was not merely technical.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: There were actual enforcement cases involving COMPAS listings as well as other agent listings, and the relationship between COMPAS and the CRMLS is severely deteriorating.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now here's something else that caught my attention.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: According to CRMLS, the organization had attempted to develop a compromise involving its coming soon exposure process.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: The concept was to give listing brokerages more control over certain third-party distributions while maintaining cooperation within the MLS system.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, the MLS was exploring a way to address some of COMPASS's concerns without abandoning the entire cooperative model.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: The MLS says the discussions ultimately broke down.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, COMPASS may have a very different interpretation of why those discussions failed.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: We shouldn't assume that CRMLS's account is the complete and accurate story.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the existence of those discussions is important because it suggests that there may be some room for compromise.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: This wasn't necessarily an all-or-nothing choice between complete public syndication and complete brokerage control.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that brings me to another important development.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: CRMLS announced plans to establish an MLS Cooperation Legal Defense Fund.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: The idea is to help MLS organizations defend cooperation rules when confronted with litigation threats.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now think about what that means.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: The CRMLS isn't simply defending itself, it's preparing for a fight that can involve multiple MLS organizations across the country, including here in South Carolina.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is no longer just a disagreement on how one MLS handles a coming soon listing.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a much broader struggle over the structure of the real estate marketplace in the United States.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know that some of you are listening probably thinking that's California, this is COMPAS, this is a fight between two giant organizations on the complete other side of this country.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: So why should I, as a real estate agent in Columbia, Lexington, Greenville, Myrtle Beach, Sumter, why should I even care about this?
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you why.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because if Robert Refkin succeeds in his legal challenges to MLS cooperation rules, there is no reason to assume the fight is going to stop at the California state line.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what concerns me.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Think about how our local real estate market operates.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: We have multiple listing services with participating brokerages who agree to follow a common and well-known set of rules.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Those rules are intended to create a functioning cooperative marketplace.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that doesn't mean that every broker agrees with every rule.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: I know you don't.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't mean that the MLS can do exactly what it wants, and it doesn't mean they're immune from antitrust laws.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the basic idea is that participating brokers operate under a common and well-known framework.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So let's bring Robert Refkin's argument to South Carolina.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's suppose the brokers participating in our local MLS have decided that if you're going to publicly market a property, you're going to make that property available through the MLS under its applicable rules.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And let's suppose the overwhelming majority of those brokerages support that very approach.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: They believe it promotes cooperation, gives buyers broader access to available properties, and gives the sellers the greatest exposure and transparency.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: But Compass decides, or its affiliates, decides that it doesn't like those rules.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Compass wants to publicly market its listings on its own website.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: It wants to hold some of those listings outside of the MLS.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: It still wants to enjoy access to listings contributed by other participating brokerages.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And when the MLS says no, Compass then threatens litigation.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now here's my question.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Why should one brokerage get to dictate the operating rules of the entire marketplace when the other participating brokerages disagree?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: And why does COMPAS get to withhold some of its listings, but then still benefit off the other brokerages' listings?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty hypocritical, is it not?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: What gives COMPAS the right to tell an MLS in South Carolina how it must operate?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And if the answer is that COMPAS has the legal right to challenge rules that restrain competition, fine.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's what our courts are for.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: But there's an enormous difference between challenging an unlawful restraint of trade and insisting that every MLS in America must adopt your preferred business model.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because if COMPAS wins a broad legal ruling establishing that certain MLS cooperation requirements violate antitrust laws, that ruling could influence other MLS organizations across the entire country, including here in South Carolina.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: So depending on the court, the scope of the decision, and whether it survives appeal, other MLS organizations could feel the pressure to change their rules as well.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Even without a nationwide binding precedent, the cost and threat of litigation could cause MLS organizations to reconsider their policies.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: So think about that.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: A local MLS could have hundreds or thousands of participating agents and brokers who believe that cooperative rules benefit their marketplace.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: But one large national brokerage could potentially force those organizations into an expensive legal battle over whether they can continue enforcing their rules.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that is where I think this story becomes much bigger than private listings.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about who gets to establish the rules of a marketplace.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the participating brokerages operating through the MLS and subject to the law?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the consumers through their individual choices about how their properties are marketed?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it whichever brokerage has the financial resources and the legal firepower to challenge the rules it doesn't like?
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because make no mistake, a legal victory for compass could change the bargaining power between national brokerages and local MLS organizations.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the effects can be felt in markets where COMPAS has very little presence today, including South Carolina.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now I want to be very clear about a couple things.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, I'm brand agnostic.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't give two rats asses about your brand.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I care about you as a real estate agent.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: But when I see dumb shit, I'm going to call out dumb shit, and this is dumb shit.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: But also be clear that the majority of brokerages cannot simply vote to do something illegal.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: Antitrust laws do exist for a very important reason.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: If an MLS rule unlawfully retrains competition, it doesn't just become legal because 95% of the brokers agree with it.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: But the reverse is also true.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: A brokerage doesn't automatically have a legal right to dictate the rules of a cooperative marketplace simply because those rules interfere with its preferred business strategy.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's the issues the courts are going to have to sort out.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And here's what really bothers me about this entire argument.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Compass says it's about seller's choice, but is it really?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: If a seller generally wants to limit exposure, there may be perfectly legitimate reasons for doing so.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about that here.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: But that's very different from a brokerage developing a nationwide business strategy built around controlling listing distribution and then demanding that the MLS organizations, which they are voluntarily members of, accommodate their business strategy.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think every real estate agent listening to this needs to ask themselves a question.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: If a large national brokerage can successfully force your local MLS to change its cooperation rules, what happens when the brokerage wants other changes?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And another change, and another change?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: At what point does the MLS start functioning as a cooperative marketplace and starts functioning according to the demands of its largest players?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I think this California lawsuit matters, because this might be a fight taking place in California today, but the consequences could eventually reach every real estate market in America, including those right here in South Carolina.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And this isn't entirely hypothetical.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: In October, Unlock MLS in Central Texas publicly resisted COMPASS's demand, and COMPASS said it was going to sue.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we're already seeing the dispute extend way beyond California.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I suspect the rest of the industry is going to watch this very carefully.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now here's where the story takes a particular interesting turn.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because while COMPASS was challenging MLS organizations over their cooperation rules, it was also sending letters to MLS organizations about how those organizations distribute certain data.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this deserves some attention as well.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: In late September, Compass requested that the MLS organizations stop providing certain COMPAS agents and listing information to third-party recruiting technology companies.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: These companies identified in the report included Cordid, Brokermetrics, BrokerKit.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And let me explain what we're talking about.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: There are technology platforms out there that use real estate production information to help brokerages identify and recruit other agents.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Compass apparently doesn't like the idea of certain information concerning its agents being distributed for that purpose, even though they use that same information themselves to recruit people to COMPASS.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Again, very hypocritical of them.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you're running a brokerage, you may not want information you submit to the MLS being packaged into a recruiting product that competitors use to target your agents.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's a legitimate business concern.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't believe it though, because I know you're doing it yourself.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've had several agents who have contacted me inside South Carolina after they saw this article and said that they are getting contacted by anywhere brokerages in South Carolina who have recruited them using the very reference stats that Compass is complaining about.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: These are stats that could have only come through the MLS.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's It's rules for thee, but not rules for me.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: There may also be important contractual questions concerning the permissible use of MLS data.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Who owns the underlying information?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: What rights were granted when the information was submitted?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: What does the MLS participation agreement authorize?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: What does the license agreement with third-party vendors permit?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Legitimate questions.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: But now I want to compare those positions with COMPASS' argument concerning listing cooperation.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: When COMPAS wants to market its listings outside the MLS, it argues that the MLS shouldn't be able to dictate the terms of that marketing.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: But when the MLS distributes certain data to third-party vendors, Compass wants to place restrictions on that distribution.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So let me get this straight.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Compass wants greater control over when its listings enter the competitive marketplace.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And Compass also wants MLS organizations to change their rules to accommodate its preferred approach.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's a whole hell of a lot of control that Compass wants over the MLS.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Before somebody sends me an angry email, let me acknowledge something.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: There are not legally identical issues.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Listing cooperation rules and third-party data licensing involves different contracts, different rights, and potentially different legal standards.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: It is entirely possible to believe that MLSs should permit flexible listing marketing while also believing that agent production data should not be licensed for recruiting purposes.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: Those positions are not inherently inconsistent, but they do reveal something important.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Compass understands the strategic value of controlling information.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I would argue that controlling information is central to the company's broader business strategy.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now think about that.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you control when a property becomes available to the broader marketplace, you potentially control the first opportunity to engage with interested buyers.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you control where consumers discover a listing, you potentially control more of the consumer relationship.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And if you can restrict how competitors use certain production information, you may reduce their ability to identify and recruit your agents.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Then there's nothing inherently wrong with a company seeking competitive advantages.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's what businesses do.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: But here's my concern.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: When a company seeks those advantages by demanding changes to the operating rules of an entire cooperative marketplace, the consequences extend beyond that single company.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that is why I don't think we should simply accept the argument that this is all about seller choice.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Seller choice is important, but so is competition and so is transparency, and so is the ability of other brokerages to participate in a marketplace without having the rules effectively dictated by one powerful competitor.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's look at this from a different perspective.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: What happens to the small brokerage?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: What happens to the independent real estate company?
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: What happens to the agent who isn't affiliated with a national brokerage?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is one of the most important parts of this discussion.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: The traditional MLS system creates an opportunity for brokers of very different sizes to compete with each other.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: The system helps create a common marketplace for information and cooperation.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now imagine that large brokerages increasingly develop their own private listing networks.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: They market certain properties to consumers throughout their own websites.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: They create opportunities to connect with buyers before those listings enter the broader MLS system.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they still retain access to the listings shared through the MLS by smaller competitors.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So what happens over time?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Could the largest brokerage develop a meaningful informational advantage?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Could consumers begin to believe they need to search multiple brokerage websites to be able to see available properties?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Could independent agents find themselves spending more time trying to locate inventory outside the cooperative system?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And could the largest brokerage use their control over inventory to attract additional agents and consumers?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Those are possibilities worth considering.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're not inevitable outcomes, but they are legitimate competitive concerns.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we have to ask whether a system like that actually produces more competition or simply shifts power toward the largest brokerage organizations.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: More freedom for one brokerage does not automatically mean more competition throughout the marketplace.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: The answer depends on the rules, the market, and the actual competitive effects.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly why antitrust disputes can be so complicated.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Compass argues restrictive MLS rules limit competition and seller choice.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: CRMLS argues that cooperation requirements preserve a competitive marketplace and prevent free riding.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Both sides describing two very different visions of how competition should work.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: One emphasizes brokerage freedom to choose distribution channels, the other emphasizes reciprocal access to information within the shared marketplace.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And the courts are going to have to examine the actual legal and economic consequences.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: But as a real estate professional, we shouldn't wait for the judge to tell us what questions to ask.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: We should be asking them now.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of marketplace do we want?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: One where consumers can find most available inventory through a shared cooperative system, or one where the largest brokerages increasingly control pools of information.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: If we're going to move toward that second model, we ought to understand what we're giving up.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now I want to return to the issues that concern me most.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Who makes the rules?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that's the question underneath this entire fight.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Robert Refkin is absolutely entitled to advocate for changes to MLS policies.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Compass is entitled to challenge rules it believes violates antitrust laws.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And if those rules are unlawful, the court should say so.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: No MLS should be able to hide behind the word competition to simply justify an illegal restraint on trade.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: But the same principle works in the other direction.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: A national brokerage shouldn't be able to force a competitive marketplace to adopt its preferred rules merely because it has resources to threaten litigation.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I find this strategy so troubling.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Refkin is essentially challenging the authority of MLS organizations to establish and enforce certain participation requirements.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: But those requirements don't exist solely for the benefit of the MLS.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: There are also established expectations among participating brokerage.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: If I contribute my listings to a cooperative systems, I have an interest in knowing whether other participants are subject to comparable obligations.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: If one brokerage can publicly market certain exclusive listings outside the system while retaining access to everyone else's listings, that changes the nature of the bargain.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe there are circumstances where that should be permitted, but that ought to be decided through lawful rule and legitimate marketplace processes.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Not simply because the largest company demands it.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now imagine you're running a local MLS in South Carolina.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: Your participating brokers have worked together to establish a set of rules, and those rules have been reviewed for legal compliance.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the overwhelming majority of participants believe the rules serve the marketplace.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Then a national brokerage comes along and says it wants different rules, different systems.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Fine.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Bring your proposal.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Explain why those changes benefit consumers.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Explain why it promotes competition.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: Explain how it protects access to listing information and how it affects smaller brokerages.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And explain how sellers will be informed of the consequences.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's a legitimate conversation.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: But if the message becomes change your rules or we'll sue you, that's a very different approach.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the industry has every reason to scrutinize it.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because once litigation becomes the primary mechanism for forcing change to marketplace rules, the size of the company's legal budget can become a powerful competitive weapon.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I'm not saying COMPAS lacks legitimate legal arguments.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying we should be concerned about a system where the threat of expensive litigation may influence marketplace governance independently of whether the challenge rules are actually unlawful.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why CRMLS's legal defense fund is so interesting.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: It reflects a recognition that smaller MLS organizations may not have the financial resources to defend themselves against prolonged litigation.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: If one organization can threaten millions of dollars in legal expenses, another organization might decide it's cheaper to simply change its rules, even if it believes those rules are lawful.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's not necessarily a healthy way to make industry policy.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it raises a much broader question.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Are we going to establish MLS rules based on what is lawful and beneficial to the marketplace or based on who can afford the longest lawsuit?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, what does all this mean for Tufcon agents?
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's several lessons.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: First, don't assume the dispute involving national brokerages and the MLS organizations are irrelevant to your local marketplace.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Those rules governing listing cooperations affect virtually every residential real estate professional.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: And changes to those rules can influence how properties are marketed, how buyers find homes, and how brokerages compete.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Secondly, understand the distinction between seller choice and broker strategy.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: A seller's informed decision to limit exposure is one thing.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: A brokerage's business model built around limiting and controlling distribution is another.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Those interests may overlap, but they're not automatically identical.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Third, pay attention to how your MLS handles cooperation and limited marketing exposure policies.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Know the rules.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Understand the available listing statuses.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Understand what constitutes public marketing and understand the consequences of advertising a property outside the MLS.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Don't simply assume that because another brokerage is doing something in California, the same practice is permitted in South Carolina.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Fourth, remember your fiduci obligations.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: If you're recommending a marketing strategy to a seller, be prepared to explain why that strategy serves the seller's interest.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if there are material limitations on exposures, make sure those limitations are properly disclosed and documented.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Fifth, don't confuse a broker's business interest with the interest of the real estate industry as a whole.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Compass has every right to pursue a profitable business model.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: So does every brokerage.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: But the question is whether a particular business model should dictate MLS participation rules is a completely separate issue.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: And finally, understand that this lawsuit could have implications far beyond the parties involved.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: A narrow decision might resolve only the particular rules and claims before the court, but a much broader ruling could influence other MLS organizations with future litigation.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And even before a final ruling, the threat of litigation may affect how MLS organizations evaluate their policies.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I think every broker in charge, every MLS director, and every real estate profession who cares about the future of cooperation should be paying attention to this because the decisions being made today could shape how we operate tomorrow.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let me leave you with this.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have a problem with Robert Refkin wanting compass to succeed.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's his job.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's the CEO of a major brokerage company.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's supposed to develop strategies to make his company very competitive.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if he believes that certain MLS rules violate antitrust laws, he has every right to challenge them.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I do have a problem with the idea that one company's preferred business strategy should automatically become the operating model for everybody else.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because the MLS isn't supposed to exist for the sole benefit of COMPAS.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it isn't supposed to exist for the benefit of any other individual brokerage.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's supposed to facilitate a functioning real estate marketplace.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: A marketplace where brokers can cooperate, where buyers can discover available properties, where sellers can obtain broad exposure when that's what they want.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And where participants understand the rules under which they're operating.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now, maybe COMPAS will convince a court that certain MLS rules go too far.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe CRMLS will convince a court that those rules are lawful and necessary to preserve competition and cooperation.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know that yet.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the real estate industry needs to pay attention.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's all the time I have for our show today.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: I hope everybody enjoyed Dish and Dirt.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: Please like and subscribe and share.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Please tell all the other real estate agents in your community all about Dish and Dirt so we can continue to grow.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all take care and have a wonderful weekend.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: See you again next week.