Latest / Q & A, Hosted by Jay Nordlinger / Concertmaster

Transcript

Concertmaster · Q & A, Hosted by Jay Nordlinger

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Q&A.
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I'm Jay Nordlinger,
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coming to you from the Salzburg Festival in the heart of
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Austria.
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SPEAKER_00: As longtime listeners know,
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SPEAKER_00: I have an affiliation with the Salzburg Festival Society,
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SPEAKER_00: and every year we host a series of conversations with musicians,
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SPEAKER_00: and occasionally others,
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SPEAKER_00: in front of an audience.
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Today,
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we will hear from Rainer Honeck,
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a concertmaster of the Vienna Philharmonic.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: This was a privilege.
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SPEAKER_00: He does not often give interviews.
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SPEAKER_00: He does his talking with his violin.
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SPEAKER_00: Furthermore,
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SPEAKER_00: he claims that he is not very good in English,
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SPEAKER_00: but he has plenty of English,
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SPEAKER_00: especially once he has a chance to get going,
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SPEAKER_00: once he has his sea legs,
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SPEAKER_00: so to speak.
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SPEAKER_00: The recording here is not perfect.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: It has a glitch or two,
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SPEAKER_00: a hiccup or two,
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SPEAKER_00: but it is more than good enough,
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SPEAKER_00: and Mr.
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SPEAKER_00: Honek dispenses gold as he talks.
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SPEAKER_00: Please greet Rainer Honeck.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, you have seen and heard Mr. Hoeneck on the stage many times.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Maybe most of us have not heard him speak, and today is the day.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: He is a concertmaster of the Vienna Philharmonic.
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SPEAKER_00: He is an Austrian, a native Austrian, from a musical family.
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SPEAKER_00: He joined the Vienna State Opera Orchestra, I think when he was about 20,
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And a few years after that,
1:38
the Vienna Phil,
1:41
soon a concertmaster,
1:43
and he's also a conductor.
1:46
And I was thinking this morning of a Q&A like this we had in
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this series some years
1:52
SPEAKER_00: ago with Werner Hinck,
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SPEAKER_00: who was also a concertmaster of the Vienna Philharmonic.
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And I asked him what I thought was a standard,
2:02
normal,
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important question.
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SPEAKER_00: what does a concertmaster do?
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SPEAKER_00: And I thought he would tell us about being a liaison with the conductor,
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SPEAKER_00: managing the string section,
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SPEAKER_00: making sure everyone bows the same way and so on.
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SPEAKER_00: And he smiled and he said, I play the solos.
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SPEAKER_00: That was his answer.
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SPEAKER_00: He didn't say anything else.
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SPEAKER_00: We play the solos.
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SPEAKER_00: I said, you sure do.
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SPEAKER_00: And so it was the most charming answer.
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And so I thought I might begin by having you say whatever you
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want about being a concertmaster.
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Maybe with the Vienna Phil in particular,
2:44
it might vary from orchestra to orchestra.
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SPEAKER_01: Hello.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: Good evening.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Good afternoon, I'm sorry.
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SPEAKER_00: Close enough.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this question I'm asked very often.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: And the more I'm asked...
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SPEAKER_01: And always thinking, what is it really?
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SPEAKER_01: What is really the most important thing of a concertmaster?
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SPEAKER_01: I'm always, what I said, there's some other things also important.
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So I think maybe it's a job which requires many,
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many,
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many things in many,
3:28
many different ways.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: First of all, of course, this is clear, you have to be a good player.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: Well,
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SPEAKER_01: you have to be at least as good as the other ones,
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SPEAKER_01: otherwise you get some criticism from behind.
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SPEAKER_01: So that's the most important thing.
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SPEAKER_01: At least as good as the other ones.
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SPEAKER_01: But you have to be good in psychology.
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SPEAKER_01: You have to deal with many, many different characters.
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SPEAKER_01: First of all, the conductor.
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SPEAKER_01: Every conductor has a different character.
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SPEAKER_01: If I play with, let's say now, it's Mutti here.
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SPEAKER_01: If I play with Mutti,
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SPEAKER_01: I have to be different.
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SPEAKER_01: Then,
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SPEAKER_01: if I play with a younger one who is maybe not so sure,
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SPEAKER_01: who needs some help,
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SPEAKER_01: needs some advice.
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SPEAKER_01: With Mutti, I cannot give advice because he knows everything.
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SPEAKER_01: That's the thing he knows, I have to say.
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SPEAKER_01: He knows everything.
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But also sometimes there are things to discuss,
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but you have to talk to him in a different way.
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SPEAKER_01: So this is the one thing.
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SPEAKER_01: Concert master has to deal with many different characters.
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SPEAKER_01: Second thing is you have to
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SPEAKER_01: decide in a moment where the conductor,
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SPEAKER_01: especially in opera I'm talking,
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SPEAKER_01: where there's a situation where the choir,
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SPEAKER_01: where the singers and the conductor are not in the same speed,
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SPEAKER_01: tempo,
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SPEAKER_01: and the orchestra also not.
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SPEAKER_01: In this situation you have to decide what to do.
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SPEAKER_01: Do you lead?
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SPEAKER_01: Do you follow the singers?
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SPEAKER_01: Do you follow the conductor?
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SPEAKER_01: Do you do?
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SPEAKER_01: And this is every time different.
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SPEAKER_01: You can never say, this is the right way to do.
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SPEAKER_01: Because every time it's another story.
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SPEAKER_01: So that's why you get this feeling how you act.
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SPEAKER_01: Which group do you follow?
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SPEAKER_01: Do you follow the conductor?
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SPEAKER_01: Do you follow the stage as a player?
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SPEAKER_01: You get routine.
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SPEAKER_01: But in my view, this is very important.
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The concertmaster,
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because the orchestra follows the concertmaster most of the
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time.
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SPEAKER_01: when there are situations which are critical,
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SPEAKER_01: or even situations which are clear,
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SPEAKER_01: but the music,
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SPEAKER_01: the conductor wants something,
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SPEAKER_01: the concertmaster leads the orchestra.
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SPEAKER_01: A good orchestra never would play against the concertmaster.
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SPEAKER_01: Artistic power with the conductor together.
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Of course,
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conductor gives the big pace,
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but the concertmaster can go also different directions.
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SPEAKER_01: So this, the feeling where you go,
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SPEAKER_01: as a concertmaster,
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SPEAKER_01: lead all to the orchestra,
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SPEAKER_01: helping leading the orchestra is the other thing.
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SPEAKER_01: And then there's one more thing.
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SPEAKER_01: I think you have to be
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SPEAKER_01: That I learned from my big hero as a concertmaster, Gerhard Hetzel.
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SPEAKER_01: Hetzel was our concertmaster.
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SPEAKER_01: He died in 1992.
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SPEAKER_01: He was on a mountainside, and so he died here nearby Salzburg.
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SPEAKER_01: And he was such a fantastic player and such a fantastic human.
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SPEAKER_01: And he could talk to everybody.
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people he didn't like but he never gave the impression that
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they are not good
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enough or they are not able to talk to or something and he
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talked to the great
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musicians also in the orchestras the same level so he was such
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a fantastic human
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SPEAKER_01: that everybody
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When he played,
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when there were some difficult things happening or some
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problems,
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SPEAKER_01: He always solved it.
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SPEAKER_01: The tension always went down.
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SPEAKER_00: You are in part a psychologist or therapist or social worker.
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SPEAKER_00: In a way, in a way.
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SPEAKER_00: Priest sometimes.
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SPEAKER_01: I mean,
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SPEAKER_01: there are concertmasters who are so powerful,
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SPEAKER_01: who are so strong,
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SPEAKER_01: they have the same effect sometimes.
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SPEAKER_01: The people are scared, you know.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
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SPEAKER_01: But that's not my view.
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SPEAKER_01: I think I always want to be like Hetzel was,
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SPEAKER_01: like can talk to everybody,
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SPEAKER_01: be able to solve problems in a good,
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SPEAKER_01: quiet manner.
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Well,
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I'll give you something humorous again from Werner Hink many
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years ago.
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SPEAKER_00: I said, you know, you always shake the hand of the conductor.
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SPEAKER_00: Did anything funny ever happen?
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He said,
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yeah,
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well,
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one time,
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Donald Runicles conducts with his left hand.
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So I started,
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any stories about handshaking,
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or has everything been normal?
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SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, I'm not prepared for this question.
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SPEAKER_00: Maybe something will come to you in the night.
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We also had that day,
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Britta,
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you will remember this,
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we had Werner Hink and Benjamin Schmitt.
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SPEAKER_00: And I said to Schmidt,
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SPEAKER_00: a violinist,
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SPEAKER_00: when you play a concerto with an orchestra,
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do you ever sense any resentment on the part of the other
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violinist that you are
10:00
the soloist because they have all studied the concerto probably
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that you are
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SPEAKER_00: playing?
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SPEAKER_00: And a few people in the audience gasped.
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SPEAKER_00: They probably thought I shouldn't have asked that question.
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SPEAKER_00: And Benjamin Schmidt said, yes, as a matter of fact.
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SPEAKER_00: I said, how do you know that?
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He said,
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well,
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when we have a break,
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I can hear them playing parts of the concerto and so on.
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So my question for you is,
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when there's a violin soloist,
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a concerto soloist,
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Do the other violinists feel a sense of solidarity or maybe
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something else?
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SPEAKER_00: Or does it depend?
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SPEAKER_01: It depends.
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SPEAKER_01: It depends on the quality of the performance, of course.
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But I must say,
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as a Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra,
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we very rarely have not good soloists.
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SPEAKER_01: Probably they are all better than we are.
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SPEAKER_01: The only thing what we can,
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SPEAKER_01: as an experienced orchestral musician,
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SPEAKER_01: can especially talk to young musicians,
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SPEAKER_01: give them some advice about...
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Yeah,
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our experience,
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and it's most of the time about sound,
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you know,
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the dynamics.
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SPEAKER_01: But other than that,
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SPEAKER_01: I really don't,
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SPEAKER_01: really would not remember one soloist would say,
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SPEAKER_01: no,
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SPEAKER_01: no,
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SPEAKER_01: he shouldn't play there.
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SPEAKER_01: No, no.
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SPEAKER_00: Just another memory for you.
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I've asked so many violinists,
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do you have a pantheon of violinists or a model violinist?
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SPEAKER_00: A violinist you especially prized when you were growing.
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SPEAKER_00: And Hink said Isaac Stern.
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And I talked to Schmidt about this later because I've asked
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this question a lot.
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SPEAKER_00: And everyone says, Oysterach?
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or Heifetz,
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a few say Milstein,
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some say Chrysler and Elman,
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I'd never heard Stern.
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SPEAKER_00: And Mr. Hink especially loves Schubert.
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SPEAKER_00: And Stern was magnificent in Schubert and made a wonderful sound.
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SPEAKER_00: That made sense to me.
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SPEAKER_00: When you were learning the violin,
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SPEAKER_00: have particular models or violinists who most appealed to you.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I have one more name in addition to yours.
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SPEAKER_01: It is Arthur Grimiot.
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SPEAKER_01: He was actually my hero because I liked his way of nobility.
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SPEAKER_01: And musicianship, especially in the classics.
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SPEAKER_01: Mozart is very famous, his Mozart recordings.
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SPEAKER_01: And he had a good body, elegant and
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SPEAKER_01: Musicantisch.
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SPEAKER_01: What is musicantisch?
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SPEAKER_01: Musicality.
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SPEAKER_01: Well, no, musicantisch.
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SPEAKER_01: When you play musicantisch, I don't know the English word.
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SPEAKER_00: A singing quality?
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SPEAKER_01: No, no.
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To feel the music,
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you know,
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it's most of the time life,
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life in the music.
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SPEAKER_01: It's a, yeah, I don't know, musicantisch.
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SPEAKER_00: You described it well.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: always thought of him as a sort of an aristocrat of a musician,
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SPEAKER_00: and I have no idea whether he grew up poor,
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SPEAKER_00: but in his playing and in his self-presentation,
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SPEAKER_00: he was,
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SPEAKER_00: as you said,
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SPEAKER_00: noble.
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I've asked instrumentalists,
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did you choose your instrument or was more like a
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SPEAKER_00: Your instrument chose you.
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SPEAKER_00: I think you have, are you from a family of eight children?
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SPEAKER_00: Nine.
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SPEAKER_00: Nine.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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And including Manfred,
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the conductor in Pittsburgh,
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who is also a violinist and violist.
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SPEAKER_00: And there are other musicians in your family, true?
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: Did someone give you a violin and say, Reiner, try this?
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SPEAKER_00: Or did you say, I want to play that one?
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SPEAKER_01: I think it was natural because my father was an amateur sitter player.
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SPEAKER_01: He was a post man, but he liked music very, very much.
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SPEAKER_01: And all of my brothers and sisters learned an instrument.
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SPEAKER_01: So all of the, of the nine, everybody.
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SPEAKER_01: His dream was to have a, I don't know, von Trapp family or something.
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SPEAKER_00: Instrumental von Trapp.
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SPEAKER_01: I heard the story that when I was five years old,
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SPEAKER_01: I was living in the countryside.
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SPEAKER_01: We were really not wealthy.
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SPEAKER_00: These kids,
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SPEAKER_00: if I may use an English expression,
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SPEAKER_00: were not born with a silver spoon in their mouth,
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SPEAKER_00: just so you know.
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SPEAKER_01: And yeah, we had...
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SPEAKER_01: My older sister played violin,
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SPEAKER_01: but when I was five years,
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probably I took the violin outside of the house and ran away
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and was wanting to
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SPEAKER_01: play or something.
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Then somebody came for a week that he has to learn because he
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took the violin.
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SPEAKER_01: It's natural, you know.
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SPEAKER_01: It has to be like that.
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SPEAKER_01: So that's the story.
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SPEAKER_01: Probably it's right, but...
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SPEAKER_01: It came to me, I think.
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I've talked to many opera singers who have said,
15:55
I never saw an opera until I was in one.
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SPEAKER_00: Many singers have said this.
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SPEAKER_00: They didn't have the opportunity to see an opera.
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SPEAKER_00: I was wondering,
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SPEAKER_00: when did you,
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SPEAKER_00: I bet they were on the radio,
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SPEAKER_00: but when did you first see the Vienna Philharmonic?
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SPEAKER_00: Do you remember?
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SPEAKER_00: Yes.
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SPEAKER_01: My father took the whole,
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SPEAKER_01: my mother died very early,
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SPEAKER_01: and so my father took the whole family to Vienna,
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SPEAKER_01: that we could study music,
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SPEAKER_01: everybody,
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SPEAKER_01: because this,
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SPEAKER_01: where I was born,
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SPEAKER_01: is six,
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SPEAKER_01: seven hundred kilometers from Vienna,
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SPEAKER_01: in the province.
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SPEAKER_01: And there was no big musical education, so he took the whole family.
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SPEAKER_01: And then he took us right away to the concerts.
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SPEAKER_01: And I remember that 1970,
16:46
SPEAKER_01: when I was nine years old,
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SPEAKER_01: after one year,
16:52
SPEAKER_01: we already watched the New Year's concert.
16:55
We came in and we got the best standing ticket in front of all
17:03
other standing places.
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SPEAKER_00: At 11 o'clock on New Year's morning?
17:07
SPEAKER_01: Yes, so I saw all these New Year's concerts in the...
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SPEAKER_01: And I liked when Buskowski was playing the violin.
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SPEAKER_01: I liked it a lot.
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SPEAKER_01: Even I didn't know why I liked it.
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SPEAKER_01: But we couldn't hear him because he was just playing along.
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SPEAKER_00: You might have liked his manner, his style.
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SPEAKER_01: Yes, his style.
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SPEAKER_01: Willy Buskowski.
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SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was very elegant.
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SPEAKER_01: When I look at the videos now,
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SPEAKER_01: I must say,
17:40
SPEAKER_01: in this time now it's maybe a little bit too much lack of work,
17:48
SPEAKER_01: you know,
17:48
SPEAKER_01: too much...
17:50
SPEAKER_01: Too much schlag?
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SPEAKER_01: Schlagobals, too much milk cream.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit too, wouldn't fit if he would do it like now.
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SPEAKER_01: But he had such an elegance and such a joy for music.
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SPEAKER_01: He transported it.
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SPEAKER_01: And it is, as a child, I could feel.
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SPEAKER_00: And on this subject...
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SPEAKER_00: Can foreigners learn waltzes, gallops, polkas, divinis, the umpappa?
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you did.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: You just learned it.
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SPEAKER_00: Lucky, lucky, lucky.
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SPEAKER_01: Now, good musicians, this is what I learned in my life.
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SPEAKER_01: Good musicians can learn everywhere.
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SPEAKER_01: They have just to have the feeling, to get the feeling.
18:40
You have to know a few things and play with the people together
18:44
and then you can...
18:45
SPEAKER_01: I experienced many,
18:47
SPEAKER_01: many times in Japan,
18:50
SPEAKER_01: in China,
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SPEAKER_01: good musicians can do it.
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SPEAKER_01: It's no miracle.
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SPEAKER_01: But the problem is when you start to explain,
18:59
SPEAKER_01: this note has to be later,
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SPEAKER_01: you have to explain to not so good musicians.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: You have to talk so much to not so good musicians.
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SPEAKER_01: You don't have to talk to good musicians.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: Because everything is clear.
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SPEAKER_01: Everybody feels right.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: Instinctual.
19:21
You remind me,
19:22
in an interview like this,
19:24
you remind me of something that Christel Ludwig said.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: There was, I believe, a Chinese tenor.
19:32
SPEAKER_00: She was at some event in South Korea,
19:34
SPEAKER_00: I think,
19:34
SPEAKER_00: and there was a Chinese tenor who sang Beethoven's Adelaide.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: She said it made her cry because it was perfect.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: She said it was so German.
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SPEAKER_00: How?
19:42
SPEAKER_00: She didn't know.
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SPEAKER_00: But this young man simply understood.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: There may be another orchestra in the world,
19:52
SPEAKER_00: big orchestra,
19:54
SPEAKER_00: without a music director or a permanent conductor,
19:56
SPEAKER_00: but I can't think of one.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: And you have a perpetual round of guests.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: And I wonder, speaking personally, do you like it that way?
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually, it gives us freedom.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: A freedom which we can decide what we want.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Of course, it is not so easy because discuss.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: There's no person who decides and says, this we do, and then it's easy.
20:29
SPEAKER_01: One decides, but we have to decide together.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we don't have...
20:37
so fast solutions you know and sometimes no solution but it's
20:42
much better to keep
20:44
our tradition like we we are used we grew up and nobody can
20:51
tell us yeah when I
20:54
SPEAKER_01: when I'm here I'm your chief conductor you have to play like this
20:58
SPEAKER_01: So for us, I think, even with all difficulties, it's the better way.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: My guess is,
21:09
SPEAKER_00: you may be too modest to confirm this,
21:12
but my guess is that a concertmaster of the Vienna Phil is more
21:18
important than
21:19
other concertmasters because there is not a permanent conductor
21:23
or music director.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you are right.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: So I'm not modest.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: You're just confirming.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: You're fine, you're just confirming.
21:33
SPEAKER_01: I know.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean,
21:35
it's a big responsibility for the concertmaster that we keep
21:39
the traditions alive,
21:42
SPEAKER_01: which I learned from my heroes and then also conductors,
21:47
SPEAKER_01: but also other concertmasters.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: So we have to pass on our tradition.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: I read somewhere that you play as Stradivarius.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: And again, a memory from speaking with Benjamin Schmidt on our series.
22:05
I said to him,
22:08
can a mediocre violinist get a good sound out of a
22:12
Stradivarius?
22:13
SPEAKER_00: And he said, no.
22:15
I said,
22:15
can a good violinist get a good sound out of a mediocre
22:19
instrument?
22:19
SPEAKER_00: And he said, yes.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: Do you agree, Mr. Honak?
22:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: Because in this kind of instrument,
22:32
SPEAKER_01: between good and very good,
22:35
SPEAKER_01: only the very good player benefits from it.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: Bring it out.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: How interesting.
22:44
I have another memory for you,
22:46
this one not from a person I ever met,
22:48
but I read it.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: Some of you may remember Joseph Silverstein,
22:54
SPEAKER_00: the violinist,
22:56
SPEAKER_00: who was long a concertmaster of the Boston Symphony,
22:59
SPEAKER_00: I believe,
23:00
SPEAKER_00: and then a conductor.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: He said,
23:03
SPEAKER_00: don't hold me to this because it sounds extreme,
23:06
SPEAKER_00: but he said something like,
23:08
SPEAKER_00: for every hour of orchestral music I practice,
23:13
SPEAKER_00: I have to practice about five hours of my solo music to keep up.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: to maintain my solo level.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: He said something like that.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense to you?
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:26
Because when you play in an orchestra,
23:28
you don't really hear yourself exactly.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: So actually, you are not checking what you are playing exactly.
23:39
SPEAKER_01: And so you make some mistakes.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: And you don't realize.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: And if you play all the time mistakes,
23:47
SPEAKER_01: you get worse.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: You have to clean up.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: It must be like singing in a choir.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: You don't really hear... Of course, this is very theoretically, I know.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: But it was a little bit exaggerated what Joseph Stilson said.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: But it is true.
24:06
If you play too much orchestra,
24:08
you have to practice to get in shape again.
24:13
Well,
24:13
I heard Mr.
24:14
Honek in a wonderful chamber concert maybe two nights ago.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: It was the annual Vienna Philharmonic Chamber concert here in Salzburg.
24:26
And there,
24:28
one can really hear,
24:29
I promise you,
24:29
Mr.
24:31
Honek,
24:31
sitting in your chair there.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: But it must be such a joy.
24:37
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you like playing an orchestral chorus.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: But it must be...
24:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm almost using the word liberation.
24:45
It must be a pleasure to sit down with a trio or a quartet or a
24:53
quintet and play together.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're totally right.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: If you play a lot of orchestra,
25:04
SPEAKER_01: you cannot get into very,
25:07
SPEAKER_01: very,
25:08
SPEAKER_01: very fine details because there's too much sound around.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: You have to be together with the conductor.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: So you're a little bit... You cannot be free at all.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: And that is what Schimmer music requires,
25:26
SPEAKER_01: to be free,
25:27
SPEAKER_01: to go in details,
25:28
SPEAKER_01: to go in areas where you never would go with orchestra playing.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: So that's for us.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: It's always also good training.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: Every conductor tells us,
25:44
play chamber music then you will play much better orchestra
25:48
music because you
25:49
listen to other people better so this the orchestra playing
25:55
benefits a lot so we I
25:58
tried to play as much as I can the chamber music I did my whole
26:03
life so this is
26:08
SPEAKER_01: I think this is for every musician.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Every musician should play chamber music.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: Every orchestra musician benefits the orchestra playing a lot.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: I was telling Mr.
26:22
Honek earlier that I was sort of touched at seeing something at
26:25
that chamber
26:25
SPEAKER_00: concert.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: There was this young man sitting next to him, a violinist.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: To me, he looked about 20.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: He may have been more like 30, but to me, he looked about 20.
26:33
And I read his bio,
26:35
and it said that he was the concertmaster of the Juilliard
26:38
Orchestra.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: And here he was sitting next to Reiner Honek, you know.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: And I just thought, he'll never forget it.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: And decades from now,
26:48
SPEAKER_00: he'll be saying,
26:48
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
26:48
SPEAKER_00: I sat next to Ryan O'Honock and I played chamber music.
26:51
And I wonder if you were probably to him what the concertmaster
26:55
you mentioned.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: Gerhard Hetzel.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
26:59
SPEAKER_00: I wonder,
27:00
SPEAKER_00: I suppose this young fellow feels about you,
27:01
SPEAKER_00: about the way you felt about Hetzel.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: I guess I have no question.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: I just think that I imagine,
27:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't know for sure,
27:10
but I'd like to imagine that senior players in the orchestra
27:16
serve as mentors to
27:17
SPEAKER_00: the younger players.
27:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: Especially within instruments.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
27:24
In Vienna Philharmonic,
27:25
we have the idea or the policy that we take young musicians.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: We want to have... Of course, we have to find the best musicians.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes the best musicians are not educated enough to win...
27:45
SPEAKER_01: against more experienced players in an audition.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: But I always think it is better to take young,
27:57
SPEAKER_01: unexperienced,
27:59
very talented musicians into the orchestra and train them in
28:04
playing with the
28:05
SPEAKER_01: orchestra.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: This is a little bit different.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: When I ask my other colleagues,
28:11
SPEAKER_01: other orchestra,
28:13
SPEAKER_01: concert masters in other big orchestras,
28:15
SPEAKER_01: they say,
28:15
SPEAKER_01: ah,
28:16
SPEAKER_01: you have such a young concertmaster.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: How old were you?
28:20
SPEAKER_01: 20.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: You were so young as a concert.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Normally the concertmasters are all 25, 30, you know.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: They have experience, they play there, there and there.
28:31
SPEAKER_01: But they play in a way which they learn somewhere.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: So they have already a style.
28:42
SPEAKER_01: But for us, unfinished diamond, a raw diamond.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: And in the case of Lukas, the Stratman, he is a very good player.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: And he has to learn a few things still.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: But we are very happy with him.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: The orchestra is very happy with him.
29:06
SPEAKER_01: And he will be a fantastic orchestra leader.
29:09
Maybe,
29:10
I don't know,
29:11
he will be the new concert master in the future,
29:14
I don't know.
29:15
SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
29:16
SPEAKER_01: But that's really the philharmonic policy to take young ones.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: You've probably been asked this question a hundred times.
29:29
And I remember asking it of Maris Janssens,
29:31
who was sitting in your chair.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: And I said to him,
29:37
what's the difference between the Vienna Philharmonic Sound and
29:40
the Berlin
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Philharmonic Sound?
29:42
And he sort of grinned and said,
29:44
that's a famous question,
29:46
meaning a very common question.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: I can't remember his answer.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: But we have a recording.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: Can you articulate it?
29:58
SPEAKER_00: Or not really.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: I think we are, our orchestra is more a team player orchestra.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: So we listen together because we are playing in the opera.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: We have to listen together to find, to be together.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: And in Berlin, I think they're all solo players.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: They're very, very good.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: So I know many of them and
30:33
SPEAKER_01: I play with them also, so they are really good players.
30:38
And maybe this could describe a little bit that we are looking
30:47
for a kind of unity,
30:51
SPEAKER_01: which Berlin,
30:52
SPEAKER_01: they have the unity already,
30:56
SPEAKER_01: but they are kind of solo players,
30:58
SPEAKER_01: they show their solo skills.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: On the subject of the opera, another memory from Werner Hink.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: I thought this was so sweet.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: He said to us,
31:13
SPEAKER_00: I have played in The Marriage of Figaro,
31:16
SPEAKER_00: he said,
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Figaro's hoaxite,
31:19
SPEAKER_00: more than 500 times.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: More than 500 times.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: And I never tire of it.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: I always love it.
31:30
Is there a piece that you've played hundreds of times that you
31:35
maybe have tired of?
31:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: It's a very easy question, actually.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Because it depends always on the performance.
31:48
Because this,
31:49
what we are playing,
31:50
even,
31:51
so,
31:52
Magic Flute,
31:53
you know,
31:54
these are all masterworks.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: Even Donizet Bellini, these are all masterworks.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: And if they are good singers, good conductors,
32:07
and we are in good shape,
32:10
we are trying to want to play good,
32:13
then you get rid of it.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: But like a magic flute,
32:20
SPEAKER_01: it's a dangerous piece if the conductor is not top level,
32:25
SPEAKER_01: the tempi are not right,
32:27
SPEAKER_01: the singers are not together,
32:30
SPEAKER_01: then it can be painful.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Because you have this all in your memories,
32:37
your beautiful performance a few years ago with some great
32:42
conductors and then you
32:43
SPEAKER_01: have to play it now like this,
32:44
SPEAKER_01: you know.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: That's why I always say the most production is the conductor.
32:54
Because the conductor,
32:56
when it's a good conductor,
32:58
then the singers are also good.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: Because a good conductor doesn't take any bad singers.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: So that's very, very, very normal.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: And so we have two things.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: Almost Darwinian.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: And then most of the time they choose a good piece also.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: So masterwork.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: So then it's good.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: I wonder whether this is true or false.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: I've heard discussion of this.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: True or false?
33:34
Some younger conductors in particular are afraid to tell the
33:38
Vienna Phil what to
33:40
SPEAKER_00: do,
33:41
SPEAKER_00: are afraid to lead the Vienna Phil,
33:45
SPEAKER_00: because they're so happy to have been invited in the first place,
33:49
SPEAKER_00: and they don't want to blow it.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: Not really.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
33:58
SPEAKER_00: It depends.
33:59
SPEAKER_00: It can be this, it can be that.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Maybe even some older conductors are hesitant.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: No, but this is a point where...
34:12
SPEAKER_01: a young conductor who is first time here,
34:16
you can see right away if he's faking something or if he really
34:23
means it what he
34:24
SPEAKER_01: wants.
34:25
SPEAKER_01: Even if he doesn't speak right or he does something,
34:29
SPEAKER_01: he's not good in beating,
34:31
SPEAKER_01: if he has a good concept,
34:34
SPEAKER_01: if he knows what he wants,
34:36
SPEAKER_01: and it is good what he wants,
34:37
SPEAKER_01: that of course has to be...
34:40
SPEAKER_01: We support him right away.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Her.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: Him.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: Are you too young to have played under Carlos Kleiba?
34:50
SPEAKER_01: No, I played with him.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: Was it special?
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:54
SPEAKER_01: It was special in 82, a Mexico trip.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: Mexico trip in 82.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: I was 21 years old.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: It was my first appearance.
35:08
It was special because his visualization,
35:12
his talking about music was not like
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Being too early, too late, too loud, too soft.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: No, it was only pictures.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Please, think of that, think of that.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: I was dreaming like that, it has to be like that.
35:28
SPEAKER_01: It's now understood.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: Ah, okay, the picture is like that.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: And in addition to that,
35:38
SPEAKER_01: he could conduct fantastic,
35:39
SPEAKER_01: he could conduct beating,
35:41
SPEAKER_01: so technically fantastic,
35:44
SPEAKER_01: And also showing the music.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: And he had an incredible temperament, emotions.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: He showed the emotions.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: It was extraordinary.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: I played also both of his New Year's concerts.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: And also there he was talking about...
36:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, when I want to say elegant, play this more elegant.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: No, he didn't say that.
36:16
SPEAKER_01: He said,
36:17
SPEAKER_01: think of somebody going in the Prater,
36:20
SPEAKER_01: in Vienna,
36:22
SPEAKER_01: the nice district,
36:25
SPEAKER_01: and 100 years ago with a frack.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: Everybody with a frack.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: And this should be like...
36:32
And it was a bolca mazur,
36:34
like...
36:40
You know,
36:41
you could see people are walking like this.
36:45
SPEAKER_01: And we played it like this, just with one picture.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
36:52
SPEAKER_00: I won't ask you for your favorite conductors.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: That would be unfair.
36:56
And it might be slightly risky to ask you to talk about living
37:01
conductors.
37:02
But maybe some conductors of the past you've worked with whom
37:07
you especially liked or admired.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: Name anyone or anything you want.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: I have to say I learned the most...
37:20
SPEAKER_01: probably in terms of orchestra playing I learned from Karajan.
37:25
I was young when I started and the way he created sound in the
37:33
orchestra and the
37:35
SPEAKER_01: discipline of rhythm,
37:38
SPEAKER_01: of dynamic was incredible.
37:41
SPEAKER_01: Nobody else does it now like this.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: Nobody.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: So that is my... I benefited a lot from Karajan.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: And then I had a big, big, big pleasure to play with Bernstein.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: Mr.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: Honek,
38:00
SPEAKER_00: so many musicians have said to me,
38:04
SPEAKER_00: you think of Bernstein,
38:05
SPEAKER_00: but they say he was so smart.
38:07
SPEAKER_00: And they all say they learned so much from him.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: Marilyn Horne said to me how much she learned from Bernstein.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: I said, what did Bernstein know about singing?
38:15
SPEAKER_00: She said, a lot.
38:19
SPEAKER_01: No, no, I think he lived in music.
38:22
SPEAKER_01: It was never like he made, people say he made a show or something.
38:28
SPEAKER_01: You never had the feeling that he performed a show, moving, never.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: Never.
38:36
SPEAKER_01: It was how he felt the music.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: It came through him, through his body like this.
38:45
SPEAKER_01: It was so intense and he demanded also so much work from the orchestra.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: He didn't give up.
38:55
SPEAKER_01: I remember that he got so angry when we played something and he said,
39:03
SPEAKER_01: Where is the philharmonic sound?
39:07
SPEAKER_01: I lost it.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: We have to fight to bring it back.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: And I thought we played good.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: I thought we did our best, but he was not happy at all.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: And then this last step made it.
39:20
SPEAKER_01: When you give instead of 100%, you give 110%.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: Then everybody, 100 people give this, then there's something special.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: This Bernstein did.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: He could, through his movements,
39:41
SPEAKER_01: And another conductor I liked very much was Maurice Jansons,
39:48
SPEAKER_01: because I was very lucky to have played one solo concert with him,
39:53
SPEAKER_01: the Dvorak Violin Concerto.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: It was my first appearance with the orchestra as a soloist.
40:02
And from that time on really we had a very good relationship
40:07
and he was the mixture
40:11
SPEAKER_01: of fantasy of what Kleiber also had and this technique,
40:17
SPEAKER_01: this working,
40:21
SPEAKER_01: working on the piece and preparing and everything has to be planned.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: in addition to his imaginations.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: He was not only a worker, he worked a lot on the beauty of the music.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: How to achieve beauty?
40:46
SPEAKER_01: How with technique I can achieve beauty?
40:50
SPEAKER_01: That he did a lot, and that he prayed a lot.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: But as you said, when I talk to Johansson,
41:00
SPEAKER_01: Abado, what is with Abado?
41:02
SPEAKER_01: Of course, Kleiber.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: What is with George Pretre?
41:05
SPEAKER_01: I had so many beautiful performances with many,
41:12
SPEAKER_01: many great conductors,
41:14
SPEAKER_01: so I don't want to really...
41:16
SPEAKER_01: Say, this is my hero.
41:19
SPEAKER_00: That's why I asked for just a few, not a complete list.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: We know there are more.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: And final question from me before taking a few from the audience,
41:28
SPEAKER_00: but I never ask people their favorite composer.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: That would be, oh, you can ask me.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: I have one.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: Really?
41:36
SPEAKER_00: He said, yes, Schubert.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: He said, it's been that way since I was four or five years old.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: He said, my grandmother loved Schubert.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: And I...
41:44
SPEAKER_00: So my usual way of asking this is,
41:49
SPEAKER_00: are there a few composers you find yourself feeling closest to?
41:54
This is different from greatest,
41:57
but the ones you feel are your friends,
42:00
in a way.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: When you grow up in Vienna,
42:05
SPEAKER_01: then Schubert is a big thing,
42:08
SPEAKER_01: because the mentality of you needs people.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit like to have this melancholy all the time.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: But in the melancholy, there's always joy.
42:21
SPEAKER_01: Not joy, some... A sweetness.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: Sweetness, yeah.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: Maybe some happiness which you will never achieve.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: So this is the music of Schubert.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: in the character of the Viennese people.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: There are many, many Viennese songs, many.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: They all deal with the happy life after death,
42:52
SPEAKER_01: going to how it will be,
42:55
SPEAKER_01: when I'm not there anymore,
42:57
SPEAKER_01: and so,
42:58
SPEAKER_01: always melancholy.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: This Viennese character, and that's in Schubert especially.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: So,
43:08
SPEAKER_01: I really love also Schubert and played all these works.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Does what you've said apply to Mahler also or not really?
43:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: It applies also, but Mahler is more expressive.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: It goes out.
43:31
SPEAKER_01: It goes out.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: It shows everybody.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: The feeling goes out.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: In Schubert, the feeling goes always in.
43:42
Before we ask some more questions,
43:44
here's a chance to applaud Rainer Honig.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.