Latest / Justice For / 16 Children Rescued From Ohio Home | The Siders Family Investigation
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- justice for: Have you ever heard a story that just sticks with you? Not because it's the most gruesome case you've ever heard, not because it's the most bizarre, but because every new detail somehow manages to be even more heartbreaking than the last. That's exactly how I felt when I started reading about what's happening in Venton County, Ohio. At first I thought it was just another headline that would disappear after a day or two. Unfortunately, that's the reality with the news cycle A shocking story breaks, everyone talks it for twenty four hours, and then they move on to the next thing. But this one This one is not leaving us alone. Not at all. The more we keep reading, the more questions we have. How do sixteen children disappear from society? Sixteen. Sixteen. How does an entire family seemingly vanish in plain sight? And perhaps the biggest question of all, how did nobody stop this? And I don't even know if we can consider it vanishing as much as hiding. In plain sight. Absolutely. Today we're gonna walk through everything investigators have relief released so far, what we know, what we don't know, and some of the questions that have become incredibly important as this investigation moves forward. Because we truly believe we're only scratching the surface right now. So with that, welcome back to another episode of Justice Four. We are your host. I'm Jackie. And I'm Sam. Before we begin. All defendants are presumed innocent until proven guilty. All opinions expressed here are solely speculative and alleged. This is an ongoing investigation. Read for yourself. We are reporting on what we have read online from news outlets. Yes. Quotes out of attorneys, quotes out of investigators, quotes out of press releases, ⁓ statements that have been made. ⁓ if sheriffs, attorney generals family members, things that have been released and found out by other investigative podcasts and other things like that. Correct. So just know this case is ongoing. This is evolving. Today is July 3rd. This happened on the 30th. Yes. This episode will be releasing on the seventh. Okay. There is there will probably be new information in the next three days before this episode releases. So we do know that some of this might be outdated or older, but we do need to get this out. Because if you remember the Turpin case. Yes, I wanted to make sure we brought that up. I mean this is Turpin two point ⁓ Yes. Kind of I mean. I I feel like it's it's the same level as that case. This might be a little bit worse. ⁓ no, I don't know. I don't know. It's it's pretty parallel. But there is a major difference in it that we will be talking about. Yes. So just remember this is ongoing, this is active, this is ever evolving, ever changing. This is part of the reason that we don't do super new cases like this is because they do change by the time we come out and we we are not able to with our jobs to update daily, nightly, weekly as much as we'd like to, but we couldn't let this go. No. We were literally sitting here ⁓ we just recorded two more episodes and we're sitting here eating. We're just scrolling our phones and she's like, something just released. Yeah, I've probably found like three or four new releases that happened since I started looking at this before we recorded our last two episodes till now. And so like we started what, eleven A. ⁓ this morning? Yeah. And it's 230. 230 right now. Yeah. So we've had it's ongoing, it's evolving, but we needed to start somewhere. And our social medias will be a very large source of information for this in the coming weeks, months. Who knows? This is going to be everywhere, guys. And if you haven't already seen this across your feed somewhere, even just a highlight. I am would be very surprised if you have not heard about this. Genuinely. Yes. So now that we have gotten that housekeeping out of the way. ⁓ please just keep all of that in mind as we go through this. Yes. As of right now, everyone ⁓ is assumed innocent until proven guilty. Everything that is coming from us right now ⁓ from sources, if not alleged by us. Yes. And we will state that whenever we get to those. Yes. Let's get into this. This story begins in a tiny village of Hamden, Ohio. If you have never heard of Hamden before, you're probably not alone. It is a quiet community in Venton County with a population of 727 in the 2020 census. Damn. Tiny. That's that small of a town. It's called a village. Yep. Okay. It's a village. It makes sense, right? The kind of place where neighbors recognize each other's vehicles. They drive and wave to each other as they pass. The kind of town you wouldn't expect something like this to happen in. But as we've seen time and time again, horrific things don't just happen in big cities. Yeah. Sometimes they happen in the smallest communities imaginable. So June 30th, we said this already, this past Tuesday, as of right now, the Benton County Sheriff's Department and Ohio B s ⁓ BCI were executing court-authorized search warrants. Of a house on Omer Street. As of this recording, actually, I take that back. Cause I answered this over our lunchtime. So when she wrote this as of the recording, we didn't have this answer, we now do. There was a parallel in there's an investigation going on that had nothing to do with what happened that day in that house. Correct. so there was a criminal complaint in Venton County with charges against Jerry Siders Jr., ⁓ ⁓ one of the adults that you will learn about momentarily ⁓ ⁓ the criminal complaint was on him for four counts of public indecency. ⁓ incidents dated were May twenty third, twenty seventh, twenty ninth, and thirty first of twenty twenty six. So they were ⁓ this actively currently. Yes. ⁓ A warrant for his arrest that was dated June thirtieth was being executed the same day investigators raided the home and discovered sixteen children. They had no idea that the children lived that there were any children in this house when they served the search warrant. I believe we discussed earlier that, ⁓ allegedly, ⁓ they were denied access into the home the first time they approached it. And so they had to get a search warrant. there have been some other posts around the interwebs ⁓ saying that allegedly police did try to enter the home and were denied, ⁓ that's essentially why they got court-mandated warrants. so ⁓ And that's when they the sixteen children. Yes. ⁓ As officers entered the property, quickly realized that something was terribly wrong. Inside the they found sixteen children raging ranging in age from eighteen months old to To eighteen years old. And I actually have the ages. Ages. So their births began in two thousand and eight or nine, I do believe. Okay. And there are eighteen, sixteen, fifteen, fourteen, thirteen, eleven, ten, eight, six, five, four. Four year olds are twins, two year olds twins, one and a half years old twins. Brother. Sixteen. Sixteen children. Sixteen children. I know we keep saying that number, but like at this point it's it's hard, like it's difficult to comprehend that. It is sixteen children. And not only that, they were kept in a 12 by 12 room. Yes, they were. Sixteen kids in a twelve by twelve room. And as more information keeps like kept coming out during the press conference, the details became impossible to listen to, honestly. Investigators said that many of the children had never attended school. Several of them reportedly had significant developmental delays. Some appeared unable to communicate normally at all. Officials believe many had little to no medical care for years. Only a couple of them had birth certificates. Mm-hmm. None of them had ever been enrolled in a public school. Nope. And ⁓ the oldest couldn't even write her name. Correct. The home itself was described as being covered in human waste, ⁓ overwhelming filth, and dangerous bacteria. We do have pictures of all of this. I do. at first we were discussing this earlier and I was reading article that had dimensions on the house. And it's a thirteen hundred square foot house ⁓ ⁓ with a basement that's 581 square feet, but the 1300 is a total square footage. ⁓ they said it was like five bedrooms. Five bedrooms, one bath. Okay. And ⁓ when you look at the pictures we have right here, it does not look that big, but we kinda had an aerial picture. We could probably go try Yeah, and and we'll put that here and you can actually see where that would be possible. It does look a little bit bigger. But the thing that struck me the most, and I know you're about to go into this, is in one of those pictures, there's a perfectly healthy cat sitting right there on the garage floor. Yeah. I mean perfectly healthy I mean, it could walk into my house with my cats and it would fit right in. Looks so healthy of a cat. Crazy. Crazy, crazy. but ⁓ veteran investigators, people who have spent decades ⁓ walking into homicide scenes, abusive investigations, and crime scenes stood before reporters ⁓ and admitted that they had never seen like this. ⁓ And when experienced investigators struggle to describe What they've witnessed is It's devastating. I don't even think an episode of Hoarders has seen this. I don't think so. The sheriff even said the day after, so July first, he couldn't get the smell off of him. that's that's naasting. That's horrible. And I mean, with how red all of their eyes were in these mug shots, you can honestly I feel like that's a part of this too. For sure. Like probably all had pink eye from all the damn Yeah. Poop everywhere. Ohio Attorney General Andy Wilson also spoke during the press conference, and he did not try to soften his words at all. He called the in he called it quote pure evil. End quote. And I guarantee y'all have seen that on some headlines. It has been the main headline attached to this is pure evil. And I I have to agree. Yes, one hundred percent. I have to agree. One hundred percent. He went on to say it was the worst scene he has witnessed in his entire career. Like, think about that for a second. Someone who has spent decades working in law enforcement. This. This is a breaking point. I mean, I'm sure we'll touch more on this later. But first responders said that there was a couple of the children, they they could not ask what's your name because the more important question was, how do I save your life? Yeah. There was a couple kids who literally were lifelighted and they they couldn't even ask them information because their situation was so dire. That I do you have this quote that if it would have been at least twenty four hours more than of them being found, they could have died and probably would have died. Probably would have one or two of the kids would have been I think I actually have the full quote in here, so gotcha, yeah. I just that quote stuck out with me so much. Yeah. It's bad. It it stuck with me. Yeah. And Attorney General Wilson told reporters the home looked like something you'd expect to find in a third world country. And not in rural America. Because I do not see that quote. Mm-hmm. When we tend to think of these kinds of conditions happening, it's not here, not in 2026. Not in a country with mandated education laws, child welfare agencies, hospitals, and countless systems designed to protect children. And yet, here we are. If Attorney General Wilson's comments weren't sobering enough, Venton County Sheriff ⁓ Cain's remarks were equally heartbreaking. Trying to explain the conditions inside the home, Sheriff Kane says something that I don't think anyone who heard it will ever forget. He said, quote, most of our livestock was kept in better conditions than these children. End quote. He spoke about the human waste and dangerous bacteria and conditions so unsanitary that it made even ex ⁓ experienced first responders sickened from what they were seeing. At another point during the conference, he said, quote, the condition these children lived in were horrific and we are sickened by it. Fortunately, this tragic chapter has closed, but their recovery will take time. End quote. And I think that's something that's easy to lose sight of while we're reading all the headlines and waiting for court hearings. It just makes me think about the Turpin children. It does. And I wanna touch on that later because we will get sidetracked. We will get sidetracked, but there's a very big thing that happened after the Turpin children were removed that I am terrified for to happen to these children. Yes. And we are gonna talk about that later. So just know we are gonna bring that in. Yep. Several of the children were transported actually all of the children were directed ⁓ transported directly to hospitals after they were removed from the property. But according to investigators, seven of them required hospitalization and two had to be airlifted to larger medical facilities. At least one child was admitted to the intensive care unit. Can you just imagine serving a search warrant for indication exposure and finding all of this? No, but thank God they did. Yes. I'm so happy they did. Mm-hmm. I feel like if one of the kids would have died though. We never would have known. Either that or maybe we wouldn't have known. We never would have known. And you guys are gonna f ⁓ we're gonna get into why you guys would have never why we would never have known. Mm-hmm. So then Attorney General ⁓ Wilson made another statement that honestly gave me chills. He said investigators believe that if authorities had arrived just twenty-four hours later, there was a very high probability that they would have been investigating the death of one or more of the children instead. Twenty-four hours, you guys. Yeah. That's how close investigators believe this came to becoming an even greater tragedy. Yeah. And as horrifying as all of that is, that's actually not even the part that I can stop thinking about. Like the question that keeps replaying in my head is how? And ⁓ a big question that we have in this is none of these kids, only a couple of them had birth certificates. Yeah. None of them were none of them existed in the government or state's eyes. There was not even a money motivation. There was no financial motivation to this. They weren't getting money from the government. They weren't getting money from the state. None of that. Yeah. That I think that's the biggest question here is why? Why was this happening? Because there was no financial motivation. There they weren't getting anything for these kids. Yeah. Yeah, and I I really think that's maybe what feels most like impossible to understand right now is because children don't become invisible by accident. No, and I don't know if we touch on this later, but even the neighbors said they didn't know kids lived there. Yeah. They they had no idea there was children in the home and there was sixteen of them. Six How do you have sixteen children in a home and no one knows they exist? Mm-hmm. I don't know, man. But what we do know is that someone made sure that no one knew these kids existed. And this is where I want to introduce you to four adults who are now the center of one of one of Hi Ohio's most disturbing criminal investigations. Yes. Let's get into who these people are. We have four people, you guys. Gary Siders Senior, who is seventy three years old. Christina Lynn Siders, who is 66 years old. Gary Siders Jr., who is 36 years old, and Elizabeth Siders, who is 33 years old. We will have pictures of all four of them. Yes. Plastered. Everywhere. Yeah. Because fuck them. ⁓ Investigators believe Jr. and Elizabeth are the parents of at least some, if not all, ⁓ of the children, while Gary Sr. and Christina are believed to be the children's grandparents. ⁓ We did something earlier, ⁓ completely alleged that so result in something other than that. More something more barbaric. Basically. We're gonna get into Elizabeth and Gary and how they met. Yes. The oldest child is not Gary Juniors. Correct. ⁓ Elizabeth was pregnant when they got together already. Mm-hmm. So the question stands to be that is yet to be answered, but investigators have curious curiosity about is whether all of the children came from Elizabeth or if some of them were born from the older children. Which is fuck. So it has been made very clear that this is not a trafficking, this is not human trafficking. This is more likely to be a severe case of incest and abuse. So that is one part of this investigation that allegedly is still coming to light, but that is not just alleged by the keyboard warriors and people on the internet investigators have also been alleging that as well. But they have made it very clear this is not trafficking. Yes. four adults were arrested and charged with sixteen counts of second degree felony child endangerment resulting in physical serious physical harm. ⁓ have all entered pleas of not guilty, and prosecutors have already indicated that additional charges could be filed as investigators continue through the evidence. ⁓ when I first saw this story, I assumed this family had probably lived in handed forever. Like ⁓ been at the I had kind of assumed that as well. Yeah. ⁓ most people don't live in tiny ass towns in Ohio for six months kind of situation. You know what I'm saying? However, you know During the press conference, officials explained that this family had moved throughout southern Ohio for years, years, before eventually settling in Venton County. We did read something a little bit ago about ⁓ the house was in a trust to somebody, but that person passed away or the trust in it somewhere around April twenty twenty five and they had still been living in the house. ⁓ even though that trust was over. So we will still get more news on that and how long but it said that they've been in this house for a few years, which could be true. Yeah. ⁓ based on the dollar store information we'll talk about later. ⁓ but I just that part is all coming out, but they have moved around a lot. There is some information out there about they've been in this one house for a couple of years, but we don't know how true that is. Yes. According to investigators, they've been able to trace the family's movements to back to at least two thousand eight. Had 2005 earlier. You got 2005? Yeah, that one article earlier said 2005. So they've they've traced back to 2005. They reportedly lived in multiple counties before arriving in Hampton ⁓ about four years ago. So they've been in Hampton for about four years. Okay, and that tracks with the trustee ⁓ house agreements. ⁓ this detail may not seem super important right now, but if you think about it, it could be one of the biggest clues because every time this family moved, that means Every single time those children were being moved as well. Yeah. They weren't how do not notice sixteen First of all, did they like move them in in the middle of the night? Because how did these neighbors not notice sixteen children moving into this house? Well, with how young most of them are, they weren't even they were probably born in that house. But like a couple they've only been in this house for a couple years. And the oldest one is okay, four years. ⁓ yeah, some of the younger ones were born after, but so there's six children. So ten children, 'cause four, two and one and a half were all twins. Yeah. So ten children being moved into this house. How do you not notice that? But again, they're essentially starting over completely in a brand new place every single time. And the family intentionally avoided systems altogether. One thing investigators have repeatedly emphasized is that these children had very little interaction with the outside world. And that honestly kind of terrifies me a little bit because it means anyone who could have helped them never even had an opportunity to. Yes. Mm-hmm. ⁓ So there is a worker who worked at a a dollar store near their house. Yeah. And she told investigators and she's actually told reporters, she has come out and talked this, ⁓ that ⁓ Elizabeth and Gary Jr. came into the dollar store every night. And the most interesting piece of information with them is is that they sometimes came in with one of the kids. It wasn't always the same kid. But the dollar store workers did notice that they smelled and that they were dirty and that their clothes and so one thing that they did try to do was they did give them hygiene products. They did give them clothing. They noticed they were never being used. Or Maybe they didn't realize how many kids there were there, so they probably were getting used, it just they weren't seeing it. You know what I Being used by the kids. Yes. So ⁓ there was there was people at the dollar store who did notice something was wrong, but when you're only seeing one kid, and I think that maybe it might have been just two or three of the kids that were rotating in and out. Probably. With them. I still think it's wild that they were taking a child out with them. Yes. But she did recognize Elizabeth and Gary, so we know that we weren't mistaking Elizabeth for the child. Yeah. I mean if it's a town of seven hundred people. But they came in every night and just got vegetable oil and water. And we just read in something that investigators believed that they were using vegetable oil as a calorie replacement. I have no doubt in my mind. And that's awful So like you said, even if somebody did see one of them, it wasn't enough to do something or notice how big of a situation this was. And I know that there's been people on the internet who have come for this lady of the dollar store going, Why didn't you guys do more? Because you don't know. There's the you know, you poor hygiene and a kid with their hair over their face all the time in a small town of seven hundred at the dollar store in this economy that we have nowadays, isn't enough for the police to fully do something. I'm gonna be real, man. Kids smell. They're sticky. They're dirty. I'm not gonna see my kids unless use. Yeah. You can't call the cops on someone because someone's kid is dirty. It's it's insane to say what you would say knowing what you know now. Yeah. But given what they knew at the time, they did what they could secretly helping and giving extra hygiene supplies, giving clothes where they saw this child needed it. So don't fault the dollar store, ladies. They tried. They just didn't know. And who could have known? Yeah. The only people you should be mad at is those four fucking people. Yeah. Those four fucking adults. Those are the only people you should be mad at. Yes. Alright. Point point blank. Yeah. As investigators continued searching the property, they started piecing together what daily life inside the house may look like. According to Sheriff Ryan Kane, many of the children appear to have spent much of the last four years primarily confined to a single room, measuring approximately 12 feet by 12 feet. Let's put that into perspective just a little bit. That's roughly the size of a small bedroom. I'm fairly positive that's the size of the room we are currently in. ⁓ currently. So most pop up canopies are ten by tens. Mm-hmm. Add two more feet. Two more feet. A twelve by twelve canopy. Sixteen people. Sixteen children. Twelve by twelve canopy. Now ⁓ one ⁓ thing investigators have clarified, I ⁓ it's this big of a silver lining to me, ⁓ is that they did not find evidence that these children were physically chained or locked in cages. Yes, that is that's the big difference between the Turpans and this. Mm-hmm. ⁓ these children were not physically confined. Yeah. Many of them had reportedly spent so much of their lives i ⁓ isolated from the outside world, ⁓ they simply remained where they had always been. Officials describe children with profound developmental delays. Some reported sh ⁓ reportedly struggled to communicate completely and the one eighteen year old couldn't write her own name, just like we said earlier. Imagine turning eighteen and never having the opportunity to learn something as basic as writing your own name. Yeah. That's just it's heartbreaking, genuinely. As news of the arrest spread, people in Hamden began speaking to reporters, naturally. And almost every interview seemed to tell the exact same story. People were shocked. Many people had no idea there were sixteen children living on that property. One neighbor described the entire situation, saying it happened, quote, right under our noses, end quote. Yeah. Attorney General Andy Wilson did l ⁓ later said investigators believe the family had become quote ⁓ good at hiding these kids, end quote. And honestly that that's fucked. Because it suggests that this wasn't just neglect, it's intentional isolation. Yes. And with no reason of rhyme or reason to why. Mm-hmm. And like honestly, as I keep reading about this, I just keep going back to those four fucking bitches. Like, and what exactly happened inside of this house, what life looked like inside of this house. Who made the decisions? Who was actually in charge inside of this house? I have a very good idea of who it was. Same. But in order for you guys to understand, we need to talk about Elizabeth and Gary Jr. Yep. So Let's talk about one of them right now. One of the four adults arrested was Elizabeth Siders. She was the thirty-three year old. When her booking photo first started circulating online, I think most people, including myself, looked at the four adults and assumed they were all equally responsible. Clace case closed. Fuck I'm not gonna lie, I thought the same thing, but also I thought Elizabeth was one of the children. Really? At first I thought she was like the oldest child because she's so young looking. She's she does is a couple years younger than us. Don't say it like that. In my mind I'm still twenty three. How dare you? But then family members started speaking to the public. And suddenly people began asking whether Elizabeth's story might be more complicated than anyone realized. And now, before I go any further, I want to be very clear. Everything I am about to talk about comes primarily from extended family members and public records. These claims have not been confirmed by investigators. And they should not be treated as established facts. But because so many people are discussing this online, I think it's worth acknowledging, and we need to acknowledge this. And this is the first step in possibly understanding how this happened. Correct. According to multiple relatives, Elizabeth repr reportedly met Gary Siders Jr. when she was 13. 13 years old. Family members claim that if They eventually married when she was just fifteen years old after traveling to West Virginia because she was allegedly too young to legally marry in Ohio. And ⁓ the person who took them across state lines to get married was Christina. Interesting. Gary's mom. Her relatives also claim she gradually became isolated from her own family. Before we get into that, I also would like to state that at when Gary and Elizabeth met, Elizabeth was pregnant already with somebody else's baby. So they met when she was The math is gonna get a little iffy here because they're allegedly there's two sides of this going around. So ⁓ There is when she met him at thirteen, she was pregnant with somebody else's baby. Yes. And then they got married when she was fifteen, and two months after they got married, there was a baby born. Yes. There has been rumors that math-wise that doesn't work. But when you add in one more other thing, that there's something going around that there is one or two children who are outside of the house. So that could be the the oldest one that is not Gary Jr.'s. Does not live in the house anymore. But that's not confirmed. And the baby that was born two months after they were married could be the 18 year old. Math-wise, that makes sense. It does. But once again, we don't have all the information, but those are things out there that do make a difference in this. So allegedly there is another child who is not in the house. Allegedly. But we have to put it out there because if we didn't, y'all be coming for us in the comments because we left that out. Period. So that is where the math is iffy, but they did get married at fifteen when she was fifteen and there was a baby born two months after that, according to a newer article. Correct. ⁓ So I hope your guys' thought process is going where our thought process began to go now. Now continue with what happened with her family and what they say happened after they got married and moved in together. Yes. So her mother actually, before I get into that, her mother makes birthday posts on Facebook every single year, hoping that Elizabeth will eventually see them. Which that's heartbreaking to You're writing a birthday message into the void. You are. And Hindsight's a bitch. Yeah. But I'm sorry. Go put your fucking grown ass child over your shoulder and drag them out of a house and she was underage when all of this started happening and lived with them and the emotional abuse and the cutting them off and I wanna know how if she started dating someone at thirteen, how she was let to do that. I think that she 'cause ran away. I think she just went with it and then they got married and then I think that there was legalities. That they couldn't step in. Very quickly. Yeah. This became a very controlling abusive situation for Elizabeth. Here's a little bit more information on it as well. More family members also claimed that when they did occasionally get to see Elizabeth, she rarely spoke. They say that Gary Jr. answered most of the questions for her and that she just seemed completely withdrawn. Again, these are all alleged from relatives. We don't know whether investigators have found evidence supporting these claims yet, but if they are true Yeah. Because regardless of what Elizabeth may or may not have experienced and people saying she's a victim, she's not a victim, regardless, ⁓ sixteen children were living in this home and they someone to protect them. And somehow they ⁓ that never happened. They were never protected. And I Elizabeth's attorney kind of gives a little insight into that. He has spoken out, and now some people are saying they don't really know if that was a good ethics decision on his part to speak out already on this. Yeah. ⁓ but he has spoken out saying that he read the headlines. He he saw the pure evil in all this, and he expected to walk into four adults who were just the most evil. And he said that when he met Elizabeth, that's it's not what he saw. Yeah. He said he sat down with Elizabeth, and the first the first thing out of her mouth to him was. Where are my kids? How are my kids? When can I see my kids? And to me, before I say this, he also said that though a lot of people are viewing, starting to view Elizabeth as a victim, she has not seen any of the headlines, she has not seen any of the online, and he's not going to show her that because he doesn't think she can handle it. But she does not see herself as a victim. And I understand that. Because Stockholm syndrome is an incredibly complicated thing. Yes. And though that has not been said or stated, I believe that we are strongly going towards that. She was thirteen when she met him. At fifteen she married him and moved in. She was brainwashed. From the fuel watch Christina the mall. I'm sorry, this is my opinion. That bitch looks evil. Yes. Her eyes tell a story. You know she was mean. Her face, you can tell she ran that household. And I I I just personally know this is gonna come down to her. And ⁓ I Personally, I don't know how you feel. I personally believe Elizabeth is a victim just as much as those children are. Yeah. Because and I'm right there with you. And you're a good company. And for any of you guys saying she should have left. She had an education. She went to school. She was in high school. Yes, she was. But at the same time, the second you th the children, it's the control of her, is the children. The I I guarantee you she didn't leave because she couldn't take those kids with her. And also they probably put it into her head. That if she left, the abuse is on her as well now. Yep. And she was so young, she doesn't understand. Yeah. So I guarantee, I'm sorry for interrupting. I guarantee also she was totally cool w if there is another child that is not Gary's leaving to not have what was happening to her happen to her other child. I guarantee it. And So I With how much she is just concerned about her kids, even in her bail hearing, when the judge asks, I will only answer questions pertaining to your bond and your bail. Everything else will not be in here. You can tell Elizabeth is she does try to ask about the kids, but she stops herself. She's she speaks. She's I mean, she was thirteen to fifteen when this all happened. She it was educated through high school. Yeah. So I just This is where this gets complicated. This is where it gets very complicated. Yes, she is a participant in this situation. Yes, that does still make her a bad person. But at the same time, she's doing this for her kids. At the same time, she's given birth to at least sixteen children. There are reports that it's been up to twenty to twenty-two children that she has birthed. Mm-hmm. because they believe that some may not have made it. There is there is speculation that there was more than sixteen children birth. Mm-hmm. You are talking that this poor woman has been f kept pregnant since thirteen. Two th since thirteen. Constantly kept pregnant. And if that isn't a like I wouldn't be surprised if she was raped every single night. I would not be surprised if I just I This is horrific. This is awful. But honestly, I think she is just as much of a victim as these kids are. And it is one of those yes, she participated. Yes, she did wrong. But it was survival. Correct. For her and her children. Mm-hmm. And I just I hope that's how it's seen. I don't know how it could come out any other way, especially with her attorney saying she does not see herself as a victim. Because I don't think she understands the child abuse charges. I also don't think she understands entirely what's even happening right now. Yeah. I agree. I agree with that. So I I'm on the same page. Don't get me wrong. I absolutely I figured you were. Yeah, I'm absolutely on the same page here. But at the same damn time, again, we don't know what kind of conditions she she may have been forced in that room with them every single night. We don't know. But she has gone out in public. She has done all of these other things and she never tried to get help. Well But it also had been years correct before he took her back to her parents' house. They said it had been like ten years or so. You're at the dollar store every night. But you have to understand I or we have to figure out at what point he started taking her out. Mm-hmm. I'm just saying, yes, she was out in public, but it's not like me or you being out in public. It's it's a brainwashing. It's a you don't know what they told her what happened to her. She told somebody. That one. You don't know what they told her she would be held responsible for because they've made her do this and this. You don't know if they have videos of her doing things that so that they're like, We have this evidence. This is you. Or they could have been making her do things. You know? I understand what you're saying. It's just it's hard to grasp. Hard to grasp though. That it is. And I think that's what a lot of people are gonna have a problem with with this case. Absolutely. I'm just such a strong-willed, like stubborn ass bitch that it's so hard thinking that I would let a man control me. Yes. And that's just how my mother raised me, though. So I don't personally like I understand it, but But it's so hard to understand at the same time. Does that make sense? Yes. Which is also why it's probably gonna be very hard for people to believe. That's very true. thing investigators have clear that this investigation is far, far from over. ⁓ yes. The child endagement charges are only the beginning. Law enforcement is still interviewing witnesses, they're reviewing any type of medical records. if there are any. They're looking through years of documentation ⁓ of documents, or in some cases the absent absence of documents. Yeah. They're trying to determine exactly how these children lived, who made the decisions in the home, whether there were previous contacts with government agencies, and whether anyone outside of that house knew more than what they've admitted. Prosecutors have already said additional charges remain a possibility. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this case looks extremely different six months from now than it is right this second. ⁓ yeah, 100%. I because we're gonna get new information, but I feel like the base of this case, the root of this, what we have given y'all, is going to just grow. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We're Only reading the first chapter of this, you guys. ⁓ and one question I've seen over and over online is whether child protective services has been involved. And as of the time of this recording, investigators have not publicly answered that question. Like previously been involved before this time. ⁓ yeah, I haven't seen anything on that either. I do know that the children are being sent to foster homes in the world. Which is terrifying. And now we get to talk about the Turpin family. So I know we haven't done an episode the Turpin Turpin family, mainly because everybody and their mother has done one and it's a lot. And there's so much body cam footage and there's a lot of other stuff. There there's documentaries out there about them now. I've watched plenty of them. the Turpin family. If you have not heard of them. Yep. There was Twelve. Twelve of them. ⁓ And the ⁓ two of the oldest daughters escaped. One one one escaped and had a cell phone that she stole from her parents and took pictures of either her little brother or little I think it was a little brother chained to a bed, ran from her home, called the cops And the cops came and showed up and thought this girl was just lying to them. Mm-hmm. Cause she could barely speak. They're like, This is the clip that probably everyone has seen. Like, what are you taking medication? She's like, What's medication? Yeah, she's so it it's it's it's hard. It is heartbreaking. But the heartbreak they work. It's saved because they got taken out of that home. And then the foster homes that they were put in abused them in the same ways that they were abused in the house. Because they ended up getting sexually abused as well. They on top of it, but they also were following the police reports and abused them in the same way and then also sexually abused them. Yeah. Yeah. It was between a few foster homes they put these kids in. And so as soon as I saw that these kids were going to foster homes. I'm terrified because we have some being described as feral. We have some who can't have to add that in here. We have some who are feral. We have some in ICU. We have some that, you know, we have an eighteen year old who can't write her name. I all of them, I guarantee, are malnourished. What have any of them even had a real meal before? I hope that after what happened with the Turpin family ⁓ the families that they are put with are very well qualified for what they're going to do because this is not receiving a normal child. Honestly, I believe a facility would be better for them. I agree. A in a keep in patient rehab facility. Yeah. something of that nature, I feel like would be I mean heck taking a portion of a psychiatric facility and putting these children in this portion of it, I feel like would be a much better opportunity. I agree. Or a much better option because Because this is a lot to deal with for a professional. ⁓ yeah. These kids, I mean And putting them in with faster parents who are not ready to the And other kids and Yeah. It's I I hope that there is a very careful consideration in how this is done and they're not just emergency placed with people. I agree. I also think separating them might not be ideal at this time as well. I I honestly I I I know it can't be happened, but I feel like giving them a section of something of I agree with all of the services and is the least we could do for these kids. I just with what we know currently, they all should stay in a hospital with each other. Yes. Before we try to move them anywhere. Get them nourishment, get them the vitamins that they've been lacking. And figure out how they function and they Yeah. They what their everyday is like because these are not normal children. You cannot I mean Yeah. This is just heartbreaking sad. Throwing throwing them into a house with complete strangers when they don't know how to communicate is going to be bad. It's going to be so bad. And I hope I hope that things were learned from the Turpin case and that this is going to be done better. But time and time again we learn that these organizations are not always doing what's best. I agree. So we've had episodes recently on it. Yes. Let's hope Ohio steps the fuck up for these kids. Yeah. We do not need another Turpin situation. No, we don't. The other thing, I don't I'm not sure how much you know about the Turpin situation, but like there were they had money waiting for him. He was an inju like he was like ⁓ not even that. From like people trying to help and like go fund me's and things like that and these kids have never seen a dime. ⁓ yes, I have heard about that. Yes. I forgot. I like, wait, the family had GoFundMe's before? Yeah. In many ways, and while we know that there's gonna be an incredibly long road ahead of us, I hope this is the first chapter into something better for these children. I hope they receive every resource possibly available. Medical care, therapy. Jesus Christ so much therapy. Education, patience, kindness. I hope they're met with nothing but grace and kindness for the rest of their lives because they they deserve it. Yes. They've already lost so much. They really have. So let's just keep we really need ⁓ keep these kids in your thoughts because this is we're just glad that they're safe now. Yes. That they're out. That hopefully they will be living a better life now. And Yeah. We will not be names or pictures, even if they become available, other stuff, these are all minors, they are innocent, they are victims. We will not be posting that. Only time that something will possibly ever be put out about these children is if when they are old enough and they decide to do it themselves. And they make statements ⁓ or do other things. But even that we even have first initials for ⁓ most of them and we're not even going to go down through that list. But yeah, this one was just We had to. We had to. Actually, I had no idea she was doing this until she said it this morning and then I was so excited because I was like, I've been reading everything on this. I'm ready. I've sent you a few things. I know we've sent Jen a few things. You sent me a couple. And then finally we were just kinda came together on it. Yeah, we were gonna record this one first, but we were like, let's wait till after lunch. Let's let's go and speak on as much stuff as it we did, yeah, 'cause there's things that got released while we while we were recording. And so if you guys see things that we missed Send them to us. Comment on this. Leave it in a review. ⁓ tag us in it. ⁓ our personal Facebooks, the the podcast, tag us, tag us, show us, send it to us. Like we will keep updating you on this. You know what? This might be a WTF need to break this back out. Occasionally we might get together and record anything. We're gonna bring WTFs out of retirement for this guy. Probably. So yeah, that's yeah. Have you guys heard of this? ⁓ have you been following it? What are your thoughts on Elizabeth? Please go watch things, go read things. Keep up on this. This is not going to die after 48 hours. This needs to stay out there. These children need to be helped. And at this point, I have not seen any GoFundMe's or anything for these families. Once we do have a legit one, if one ever does appear, we know you guys like it. We will make sure that the right ones are shared because we're not letting strangers handle us. No. So we will definitely be keeping touch. I have a couple more questions for the jury though. ⁓ let's hear it. Who do you think held power inside of that home? Do you think all four adults were equal participants? Or was there one person making the decisions while everyone else followed? As of right now, we simply don't know. We have our assumptions. Yes, we do. Investigators have been very careful not to draw conclusions publicly. And I think we everyone should be just as careful with that, including us. It's okay to ask questions. It's okay to acknowledge that some details don't add up. Yeah. Because they don't. But it's also important not to mistake social media theories for evidence. This case deserves patience. Yes. Because the truth matters more than the A viral headline ever will. I also want to say something directly to anyone watching this who works directly with children, teachers, nurses, doctors, school staff, social workers, coaches, whoever you are. You may never know the impact you have simply by noticing. by asking one extra question, by making a phone call, by trusting your instincts when something doesn't feel right. Most of the time the call turns out to be nothing. And that's okay. Be but every once in a while, it might save a child's life. Yeah. And as difficult as a story is to cover currently, it's unfortunately gonna get worse. We still think it's important to keep talking about. Yes. Yeah. And not because it's shocking or because we want to generate headlines. ⁓ that's not what we're here for. You guys know that. But because there's sixteen children whose lives are about to be changed forever and hopefully in a good way. That's half a classroom of kids, by the way. ⁓ I I put in here earlier I said it's a classroom of kids and she's like, That's not the size of classrooms anymore. Yeah, no. That is that is half to three quarters of a class. That's wild. As more information comes out, I think we owe it to them to care about what happens next, not just what happened before they were rescued. Yes. This case is still developing and we will continue to follow it as more verified information gets released. If major updates come out, whether it's charges, court testimonies, more details about how this happened, you know we're following up on that shit. ⁓ until then though, we really want to hear your thoughts. We want to know If you knew about this, how you feel about it, who you think may have been part of this. You know, all of that. But we're gonna have a discussion post, as we always do. If you decide to go into our discussion post, especially with this case, knowing it is still an ongoing investigation, please be respectful to each other, you guys. Yes. Please, please, please. This case involves real children, real families. You know, everyone has their own opinion. That's fine. That's cool. Res be respectful about it though, you know? Yeah. So with that, thank you guys so much for spending time with us today. This was Interesting. Yeah, this was different than our normal episodes. Normally we're a lot more scripty. I feel like this is a lot more of a discussion. Yeah. ⁓ we don't do those very often because sometimes we can get sidetracked or they don't sound as well put together. But this is one of those that's just so ever-evolving that I'm pretty sure we edited the script like three times before we went, Nope, let's just take this out, move this, and we'll just talk about it. So that's why I'm kind of a little hesitant in following her lead in this to not bring things up to Earlier, say things, but and we've probably I know I'm gonna edit this differently, but like we've probably said the same thing multiple times, but it needs to be said it needs these this is it's a lot, it's a lot horrible, and we're only fucking three days in, yo. Yes. ⁓ I know we've been hitting you guys with a lot of ongoing open active cases that are so recent that are just like days or weeks old, but Sometimes we just have to. Yeah. I guarantee in the last hour that we've been sitting here just talking about this, more information has come out. ⁓ I bet. our socials because we're gonna be putting out information as it's coming out. ⁓ But we will only be putting out information that is confirmed. And from a source, we will have the source in it. ⁓ if you've been on our social media in the past couple weeks, we have been doing a lot of breaking news and a lot of updates and keeping you guys updated. So if you haven't been on there, go check it out. We have the Davis Mortuary update. There's an update on Yvonne Missy Woods out of the CBI. We have Barry Morphew updates. We have Corey Richard's appeal updates. So ⁓ with it though, please we it's us. This is our podcast. Plus Jen. That's over in West Virginia. This is us. So if we miss something, if we said something wrong Please correct us. You guys do it on YouTube all the time and we love it. Please correct us. ⁓ We Or add whatever. will gladly ⁓ add and fix whatever we may have made. ⁓ We're a small podcast. not doing this. We're not trying to You know, have this lavish thing. That's not what we're doing. We're here for the victims. We wanna be advocates for the people we're telling these stories about. And if there's something wrong, tell us. We'll fix it. Yes. That's why we're doing this. We always wanna have the most accurate information. And especially with an ongoing investigation like this, we don't wanna fuck this up. Yeah. Not at all. On that note, I hope you guys have a good week. Brother. I hope you guys had a very safe fourth of July. Today is July 3rd, so you'll be able to be safe tomorrow. But when you listen to this, it'll be the 7th. So hope you guys had a safe ⁓ weekend. And please, I hope nobody else lit Colorado on fire more because we are on fire so much right now. Literally, fireworks can wait, man. Yeah. Stop. I'm gonna be such a I'm gonna be such a Karen tomorrow. It's not even funny. I will be calling the cops for the first year. Yeah. So anyway, follow us up at Justice Po at Justice4 Podcast. ⁓ we are everywhere you can listen to us. We are on YouTube and Spotify and Apple. Spotify already added videos. Apple's adding videos. So apparently you can watch us on every platform here in a moment. Damn. Yeah, right? Look at everybody upgrading their life. Hell yeah, brother. So with that, also go to our website, ⁓ just for podcast dot com. Where you can find case submissions, all of our episodes, merge. You can also go and find all of our resources. With that, the D National Domestic Hotline is available 24-7 and in 200 plus languages. You can text the word begin to eight eight seven eight eight. That is B-E-G-I-N to eight eight seven eight eight. Say something. Yeah. Like that's not just for adults. It is for any anything. But we will catch you guys next week with an all-new episode. She has a problem. That's all I'm gonna say. We'll see you guys next week with an all news episode. Okay. Love you. Bye!