Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / The latest on the Cubs with Jesse Rogers

Transcript

The latest on the Cubs with Jesse Rogers · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: That's just how it works. That's why I never get
0:01
Speaker 1: into always Dancy Swanson overpaid. That's not relevant. Every free
0:06
Speaker 1: agent is essentially overpaid.
0:13
Speaker 2: Welcome to Northside Territory, the Chicago Cubs podcast on the
0:17
Speaker 2: Foul Territory Network. I am Patrick Mooney, the Athletic, my
0:21
Speaker 2: co host and colleague on the Cubs beat. Sahadev Sharma
0:24
Speaker 2: is on vacation, so we have a very special guest
0:28
Speaker 2: in Jesse Rodgers of ESPN. Jesse works non stop. He
0:33
Speaker 2: breaks national news, he writes for ESPN dot com. He's
0:36
Speaker 2: on TV as well as the ESPN one thousand affiliate
0:40
Speaker 2: here in Chicago. We sit next to each other in
0:43
Speaker 2: the Wrigley Field press box. It's a lot of laughs,
0:46
Speaker 2: but I'm always impressed by the nuggets and insights that
0:50
Speaker 2: Jesse gets. As someone who is always talking to scouts, agents, executives,
0:55
Speaker 2: coaches and opposing managers. He never has a bad I'm
1:00
Speaker 2: gonna have to disagree with Craig Counsel on that one.
1:04
Speaker 2: So our understanding is that the Cubs are not going
1:06
Speaker 2: to be buyers at the trade deadline. Ken Rosenthal, Will
1:09
Speaker 2: Salmon and I reported that as part of our trade
1:12
Speaker 2: deadline watch on the Athletic So I wanted to hear
1:15
Speaker 2: from Jesse on what a selloff could look like, what
1:18
Speaker 2: the front office and ownership must be thinking at this moment,
1:22
Speaker 2: and if there's something off in this clubhouse mix, and
1:26
Speaker 2: what exactly is Craig Council doing this year.
1:30
Speaker 3: Jesse, thanks for joining me here today.
1:33
Speaker 4: I mean you are a national newsbreaker, a local authority,
1:38
Speaker 4: a multimedia talent, but basically you're here because this was
1:41
Speaker 4: pitched as a roast of Sahadev Sharma.
1:44
Speaker 3: So let's start there.
1:46
Speaker 4: This is your platform to tell the world about our
1:49
Speaker 4: boys spin rate.
1:50
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean it has to start with that
1:52
Speaker 1: nickname is the man that dives into baseball savant and
1:55
Speaker 1: true media like no one else. So you know, if
1:59
Speaker 1: you need a technical question asked of the manager about
2:03
Speaker 1: spin raid or velocity, it's it's Sahata's job that we've
2:07
Speaker 1: we've dubbed him or bunts for that matter. He liked
2:10
Speaker 1: to ask Ross about fighting a lot we spin Right's
2:14
Speaker 1: our guy.
2:14
Speaker 4: I love him well, he's taken a much needed, well
2:18
Speaker 4: deserved vacation, So I appreciate you hopping in here, and
2:21
Speaker 4: I always like to get your take because you do
2:25
Speaker 4: a great job of going to the other clubhouse talking
2:28
Speaker 4: to different agents, players on our teams, coaches, we're approaching
2:36
Speaker 4: the trade deadline once again. What's kind of your just
2:40
Speaker 4: overall view of the marketplace and what maybe a selloff
2:45
Speaker 4: you know, could look like at Wrigley Field this summer.
2:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, it certainly has become a seller's market in July
2:52
Speaker 1: with this third wild card added, it might make for
2:56
Speaker 1: less trades in some sense because there's so many teams
2:59
Speaker 1: in it. But obviously if you are a seller, you
3:02
Speaker 1: can do well. And if you talk about the White Sox,
3:05
Speaker 1: for example, they could do really well in part because
3:09
Speaker 1: of some of the pieces they have. But the other thing,
3:11
Speaker 1: and this could apply to the Cubs as well, is
3:14
Speaker 1: the motivated teams like you have the Dodgers, you have
3:19
Speaker 1: the Yankees, even the Phillies, who look invincible, are probably
3:23
Speaker 1: going to add. So these are teams that can take
3:26
Speaker 1: on payroll. In some cases have good farm systems. Certainly
3:31
Speaker 1: in the Dodgers' case they do. So I think that
3:35
Speaker 1: my saying is always, if you're going to have a
3:38
Speaker 1: bad year, you have to salvage it somehow. In July,
3:43
Speaker 1: in this case, July thirtieth is a time every year,
3:47
Speaker 1: this case, July thirtieth, this year is a time to
3:49
Speaker 1: salvage it. And for this Cub's wholly underachieving season, maybe
3:55
Speaker 1: they can trade David Robertson for a Ben Brown again.
3:59
Speaker 1: You know that. Yeah, you know you have to get
4:01
Speaker 1: something out of it if you don't think you can
4:03
Speaker 1: win the World Series, and certainly or even get in.
4:06
Speaker 1: Fangrafts and Baseball Reference don't give them much of a percentage.
4:09
Speaker 1: You know, Vegas doesn't either, So yeah, I think that
4:13
Speaker 1: you have to turn your eye that way and know
4:16
Speaker 1: that it's it is a seller's market and get a
4:17
Speaker 1: good prospect or two.
4:19
Speaker 4: What was Jed's line in twenty twenty one when we
4:22
Speaker 4: were in DC on the Zoom, the like, don't let
4:24
Speaker 4: a crisis go to waste.
4:26
Speaker 3: Or something like that. And I don't know how many
4:29
Speaker 3: great pieces they have to sell.
4:31
Speaker 4: I mean, Tye Own's the one name that's been kind
4:33
Speaker 4: of popping up here and there.
4:35
Speaker 3: I mean, who do you think is kind of.
4:37
Speaker 4: Circling circling the Cubs at this point and kind of
4:41
Speaker 4: wondering what they might do.
4:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the most realistic thing would be a
4:45
Speaker 1: couple of those relievers. Mark Later Jr. Mark Later Junior
4:49
Speaker 1: would be at the top of that list. All the
4:52
Speaker 1: contenders are looking at him in particular, really good against lefties.
4:56
Speaker 1: If you don't overuse him, there's no reason to think
4:58
Speaker 1: that he can't continue on. They're looking at Hector Nerris,
5:02
Speaker 1: but a little bit more complicated with that team option
5:04
Speaker 1: that turns into a player option, right, I mean Tyson Miller,
5:08
Speaker 1: I mean, go through the list. It's been a piece
5:09
Speaker 1: and bullpen over the last month. So yeah, those would
5:13
Speaker 1: be the most realistic deals. Now, the bigger deals would
5:16
Speaker 1: be Christopher Morrell or Nico Horner or Jamison taie In
5:21
Speaker 1: someone under contract that has nothing to do with this season.
5:25
Speaker 1: It has. It would more have to do with rejiggering
5:28
Speaker 1: your roster for the future. The other one obviously is
5:31
Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger, but his injury and his contract status make
5:34
Speaker 1: that complicated as well. So it just depends on how
5:37
Speaker 1: far how aggressive Jed wants to go and sort of
5:40
Speaker 1: changing up his team, and I think he needs to
5:42
Speaker 1: look at all options because this season has been such
5:44
Speaker 1: a disappointment so far.
5:47
Speaker 4: I mean, we've known Jed for such a long time
5:49
Speaker 4: and you've gotten to know so many executives at the
5:53
Speaker 4: highest levels of the sport and your role at ESPN, Like,
5:57
Speaker 4: what is kind of a perception of Jed as a
6:01
Speaker 4: deal maker? And and I think back to you had
6:03
Speaker 4: a great line. I think it was on Waddle and Sylvia.
6:09
Speaker 4: You are told sort of like the if I get
6:11
Speaker 4: it right, the White Socks or a mid market team
6:14
Speaker 4: that operates like a small market team, and the Cubs
6:16
Speaker 4: are a big market team that operates like a mid
6:19
Speaker 4: market team. And now that kind of goes all the
6:21
Speaker 4: way to the top. But just Jed as a player
6:25
Speaker 4: kind of in this industry, what is kind of the
6:27
Speaker 4: read on him from his colleagues peers?
6:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, that line, by the way, was told to me
6:32
Speaker 1: by another executive. I didn't make that line up. Oh yeah,
6:35
Speaker 1: yeah yeah. So just to be clear, that's you know,
6:38
Speaker 1: that's what the industry thinks of the Chicago teams, or
6:40
Speaker 1: at least one person.
6:42
Speaker 5: Yeah.
6:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, he can't say you can't play the whole industry.
6:44
Speaker 1: But I think this would won't surprise anybody. I think
6:49
Speaker 1: people around the league think Jed's a solid, solid executive.
6:53
Speaker 1: There is that there are some executives and I think
6:56
Speaker 1: I would put Jed in this class. They never want
7:00
Speaker 1: to lose a deal. Now, I know that's you know,
7:02
Speaker 1: that's an obvious statement. Who wants to lose a deal?
7:04
Speaker 1: But it's sort of default position, is that. I mean
7:09
Speaker 1: we saw that with Cody Bellinger and you know, guys
7:12
Speaker 1: sort of coming to the market coming back to him
7:14
Speaker 1: on several players, you know, the yeah, the one that showed.
7:18
Speaker 1: The one thing I did say early on and I
7:20
Speaker 1: think this rings true, is I think it's gonna be
7:22
Speaker 1: interesting to watch the New York Mets with kind of
7:25
Speaker 1: a guy like David Stearns combined with an aggressive owner
7:29
Speaker 1: like Steve Cohene. I think that will work eventually. I
7:34
Speaker 1: like that idea of opposing views. I'm not sure the
7:36
Speaker 1: Cubs have enough of the aggressive opposing view. You know,
7:41
Speaker 1: Carter is kind of in line with Jed. Who's in
7:43
Speaker 1: line with Tom? Now that is that is good and
7:46
Speaker 1: healthy for your organization. Again, who wants to lose deals?
7:50
Speaker 1: But this is an irrational sport which rewards players at
7:55
Speaker 1: an age that maybe they shouldn't be rewarded for at
7:59
Speaker 1: But but that's just how it works. That's why I
8:01
Speaker 1: never get into always Dansby Swanson overpaid it's that's that's
8:04
Speaker 1: not relevant because every free agent is essentially overpaid and
8:08
Speaker 1: an exactly they should all be paid at twenty four
8:12
Speaker 1: years old, not twenty nine. But that's just how the
8:15
Speaker 1: system works. And you know, once in a while, you
8:17
Speaker 1: just have to extend yourself even if the back end
8:21
Speaker 1: is going to be problematic. We've seen this with John Melton,
8:24
Speaker 1: and I'm not if there is a sort of vibe
8:27
Speaker 1: to Jed outside the organization. It's just exactly that he's
8:32
Speaker 1: not going to necessarily extend himself the way THEO has
8:36
Speaker 1: or you know and his reputation and how that was developed.
8:39
Speaker 1: So but Jed has a solid reputation. That'd be the
8:43
Speaker 1: one little thing, which again is maybe a reason they
8:46
Speaker 1: haven't signed up a big, big time free agent, you know,
8:48
Speaker 1: since he took over.
8:50
Speaker 4: Well, I gotta give you credit, man, because you in
8:53
Speaker 4: your role at ESPN or on the road in October
8:55
Speaker 4: a lot and like you're getting a good perspective that's
8:57
Speaker 4: not just the rig lead bubble. And that's feels like
9:00
Speaker 4: whenever you come back off those trips, you're like, where's
9:04
Speaker 4: the stars? You need stars because you see those guys
9:06
Speaker 4: performing in October and I think that's kind of what
9:10
Speaker 4: this is setting up.
9:11
Speaker 3: Right, Like Ken Jed planned a star.
9:13
Speaker 4: I realize there's not like you know, a store or
9:15
Speaker 4: like an app, you can just go get one. But
9:18
Speaker 4: this offense to me, and we sit next to each other, Wrigley,
9:22
Speaker 4: that's the missing piece, right, I mean, well, how do
9:24
Speaker 4: you see this unfolding?
9:26
Speaker 1: Yeah? The way I think we all agree, including Jed,
9:30
Speaker 1: that stars win you championships, right, Yeah, And that's an
9:35
Speaker 1: obvious statement, but it also the lack of stars can
9:39
Speaker 1: hide some weaknesses. And what I'm getting at is, and
9:43
Speaker 1: I've said this often this year, like they were six
9:45
Speaker 1: in scoring last year, Right, we didn't cry too much
9:49
Speaker 1: in the offseason about lack of stars because there are
9:53
Speaker 1: times where a solid nine man lineup can get the
9:57
Speaker 1: job done.
9:58
Speaker 3: Right.
9:58
Speaker 1: There's different ways to there's different paths. But what I
10:02
Speaker 1: think happened was is just so big So one year
10:06
Speaker 1: you can be six and scoring and the next year
10:08
Speaker 1: you can be twenty third. If you have anchors in
10:11
Speaker 1: the middle of that lineup, that variance won't be as large.
10:14
Speaker 1: You can kind of tone on things a little bit more.
10:17
Speaker 1: You know, you're not there's more seventy five percent tile
10:20
Speaker 1: or greater results instead of this ten percent to ninety percent.
10:24
Speaker 1: You know that makes sense. So yeah, that that I
10:29
Speaker 1: think that you can't be fooled by you. Oh we
10:33
Speaker 1: had a good year. If you've lacked stars, you're not
10:36
Speaker 1: gonna win consistently year in year out. You know, it's
10:39
Speaker 1: just not going to happen. You might pop one year,
10:42
Speaker 1: but there's a bigger thing here. Pat I'd like your
10:44
Speaker 1: your perspective because I'll compliment you. You're one of the
10:48
Speaker 1: honestly the few reporters, including myself, that's unemotional about your reporting,
10:52
Speaker 1: and that is not easy to do in this dandarade.
10:54
Speaker 1: You're straight down the middle about your reporting. And I
10:59
Speaker 1: think Jed has put himself in a difficult position trying
11:03
Speaker 1: to compete and rebuild at the same time. They stripped
11:08
Speaker 1: it down in twenty twenty one. Usually, I mean they
11:12
Speaker 1: really stripped it down. Usually that'd be followed by a
11:15
Speaker 1: couple hundred lost seasons. And the big part of that
11:19
Speaker 1: is giving runway to young players. Alexander Canario has no runway.
11:26
Speaker 1: Pete Koor Armstrong is getting some runway, but it's not
11:29
Speaker 1: the five hundred plate appearance plate appearance is no stress situation. Yeah,
11:35
Speaker 1: you know. And so what's gonna happen as Matt Shaw
11:38
Speaker 1: comes up, as Owen Casey comes up. Are they going
11:41
Speaker 1: to a youth movement which is gonna be one step forward,
11:44
Speaker 1: one step back, two step forwards, one step back, or
11:47
Speaker 1: are they gonna do something else. The way you can
11:50
Speaker 1: incorporate young players into a lineup, a competing lineup is
11:53
Speaker 1: if you're the Phillies, you just have this massive talent
11:56
Speaker 1: based massive leadership and you can bring you can bring
12:00
Speaker 1: long whoever bryceon Stott or someone or Alec vohone, Alc
12:04
Speaker 1: fohlone was now an All Star. So this is the
12:07
Speaker 1: Judg's in a tough spot here because he didn't really rebuild.
12:11
Speaker 1: He tried to compete and rebuild, and.
12:13
Speaker 6: That's tough aircrats here from FT, I'm a former athlete
12:18
Speaker 6: that really pays attention to his routine and AG one
12:22
Speaker 6: every morning before my workouts is something that gets my
12:24
Speaker 6: day going.
12:25
Speaker 5: Hey bron here. Ag one is a foundational nutrition supplement
12:29
Speaker 5: that delivers daily nutrients and gut health support and it's
12:32
Speaker 5: backed by multiple research studies, so you can trust what
12:35
Speaker 5: you're putting in your body.
12:36
Speaker 6: Unlike other products which only test their ingredients in isolation.
12:40
Speaker 6: Ag one tests their formula.
12:42
Speaker 1: As a whole.
12:43
Speaker 5: Ready for this stat, ninety seven percent of people in
12:45
Speaker 5: a research study felt more energy after thirty days of
12:48
Speaker 5: drinking AG one. If I had to recommend one product
12:51
Speaker 5: to support whole body health, it's ag one And that's
12:54
Speaker 5: why FT is excited to have them as a new partner.
12:57
Speaker 5: Starting your journey with ag one is a win. AG
13:00
Speaker 5: won and get a free one year supply of Vitamin
13:02
Speaker 5: D three, K two and five free AG one travel
13:05
Speaker 5: packs with your first purchase at drinkag one dot com
13:08
Speaker 5: slash foul. That's drink ag one dot com slash f
13:12
Speaker 5: o u l go check it out FTFAM.
13:16
Speaker 1: Yeah.
13:16
Speaker 4: No, I think I think you nailed it again, Like
13:18
Speaker 4: and that's kind of I wonder, like, where is Tom
13:21
Speaker 4: Ricketts in all of this. I mean, we were there
13:23
Speaker 4: this weekend and I think each crowd began with either
13:29
Speaker 4: a thirty nine or a forty. The team is still
13:34
Speaker 4: kind of creating that perception of being in the race,
13:38
Speaker 4: like they're not out of it yet. And I think
13:42
Speaker 4: this is what Tom wants in terms of every year
13:46
Speaker 4: having a chance to be competitive. And you know, I
13:49
Speaker 4: think It's funny the Arizona Diamondbacks. Seeing them, it's like, oh,
13:52
Speaker 4: you just need to win eighty four games and sneak in.
13:55
Speaker 4: It's like, well, that's a really good team that's handled
13:57
Speaker 4: the Cups like all the time. I don't think you
14:00
Speaker 4: can just like expect your team to be like dime Backs.
14:03
Speaker 4: They have some really dynamic players, some great pitchers. They
14:08
Speaker 4: have some resourcefuls in this that you've seen, you know,
14:12
Speaker 4: up close, more than I have. And so yeah, I
14:15
Speaker 4: think I'm with you, man.
14:16
Speaker 3: I think it's hard to incorporate those players.
14:19
Speaker 4: I think that's kind of why Jed hasn't moved some
14:22
Speaker 4: of them is because he I think, deep down he
14:24
Speaker 4: thinks like their best runway could be that like twenty
14:28
Speaker 4: twenty six to twenty thirty or whatever. But that's also
14:33
Speaker 4: at that point he will have been a Cups employee
14:36
Speaker 4: for like decades, and that's just a hard sell in
14:39
Speaker 4: a big market. So I think, yeah, it's super tricky there.
14:43
Speaker 4: And I also like, don't think it's that far off either.
14:47
Speaker 4: Like I'm not a Homer, I'm not like a super
14:49
Speaker 4: optimistic Cups person, but their pitching's really good.
14:54
Speaker 3: If you have that, you can kind of figure things out.
14:57
Speaker 3: And I think if you add that big hitter in
15:00
Speaker 3: the middle of it, but no doubt, like why did
15:04
Speaker 3: you draft.
15:05
Speaker 4: The Matt Shaws, the James Treanto's types, Like where are
15:08
Speaker 4: they gonna fit? And they're gonna take They're gonna need
15:10
Speaker 4: a lot of time to figure things out. And we
15:12
Speaker 4: don't know where Christopher Morel is gonna be, but he
15:14
Speaker 4: certainly hasn't like pass this audition.
15:17
Speaker 3: You know, they.
15:17
Speaker 4: Probably in hindsight, And I was the guy who said
15:19
Speaker 4: you should probably just see what you have probably should
15:22
Speaker 4: have moved him last offseason.
15:23
Speaker 1: And I'll just go back to what I said before,
15:25
Speaker 1: and you or you probably should have just said, look,
15:31
Speaker 1: we're gonna do the best to win, but we're gonna
15:33
Speaker 1: let Morel be himself for five hundred played appearances and
15:37
Speaker 1: not worry to And same thing with Pete Crow. That's
15:39
Speaker 1: what I'm getting at, Like it's it's it's not easy
15:43
Speaker 1: to break into the big leagues and just you know,
15:46
Speaker 1: catch fire on a on a competing team unless there's
15:49
Speaker 1: an unbelievable support system there and and and and and
15:52
Speaker 1: and there really is not in a lot of ways
15:55
Speaker 1: compared to other other top teams. So I just think
15:58
Speaker 1: it's it's now become alie more difficult tasks. You know,
16:02
Speaker 1: that third wildcard has people thinking differently. You know, oh,
16:06
Speaker 1: maybe I can't compete and rebuild at the same time.
16:09
Speaker 1: And there's an aspect of this. I know you agree
16:11
Speaker 1: with it. It just you said thirty eight thousand, forty thousand.
16:15
Speaker 1: It's not like Jed or Tom walks the stadium and
16:18
Speaker 1: gets booed. It's not like the players get booed. I mean,
16:23
Speaker 1: it's not really that tense in the press conference room
16:26
Speaker 1: other than yesterday, or or in the locker room. Like
16:30
Speaker 1: I just think we both have experienced situations where there's
16:34
Speaker 1: wholly underachieving teams. It's a little bit more tense organically organically,
16:41
Speaker 1: and you know, I think that plays in this sort
16:45
Speaker 1: of I hate I know it's a cliche. Oh, ownership
16:48
Speaker 1: doesn't care. There's forty thousand there, but it's human nature
16:51
Speaker 1: to be like, you know what, Okay, we'll get there eventually.
16:54
Speaker 1: Things are okay, farm system rankings are good, we're still
16:58
Speaker 1: filling the stands. We'll be you know, like it's different
17:02
Speaker 1: if your life as hell, you know, because the media,
17:06
Speaker 1: the media and the fans are all over you, so
17:09
Speaker 1: you know this. You're coming from the East Coast and everything.
17:12
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's just kind of some of my rambling
17:15
Speaker 1: thoughts there.
17:16
Speaker 4: Know that there are two final topics that I want
17:18
Speaker 4: to get you on. You mentioned there's obviously bad take Jesse,
17:22
Speaker 4: which is hilariously overblown on social media. But I want
17:27
Speaker 4: to ask you about Counsel because you actually, among the
17:29
Speaker 4: people who cover him every.
17:31
Speaker 3: Day, know him probably better than anyone.
17:33
Speaker 4: I mean, you were in your capacities at ESPN, including
17:36
Speaker 4: being you know, like a sideline reporter in his dugout
17:40
Speaker 4: during the playoffs, Like, what has he mastered your expectations?
17:45
Speaker 4: Because I think he does have an edge. He's very focused.
17:48
Speaker 4: He's actually a lot more like I would say, humorous
17:52
Speaker 4: than people would ever see on TV. Like, but I
17:56
Speaker 4: just thought there'd be a little more of that kind
17:58
Speaker 4: of tension there throughout. And I'm just curious you're kind
18:03
Speaker 4: of broad takeaways on Craig in his first year in Chicago.
18:09
Speaker 1: I'll put it simply, it feels like he's been observing
18:13
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, that's the great way. Yeah, it
18:17
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like there's a lot of drivers of that
18:20
Speaker 1: bus in there right now, and that includes Craig in
18:23
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. He doesn't have any of his
18:25
Speaker 1: own coaches. He didn't know Ryan Flaerty even though he
18:28
Speaker 1: hired him, but didn't have any relationships there. Just getting
18:32
Speaker 1: down those relationships with the front office, which he probably
18:34
Speaker 1: will have a bigger part of this offseason. I don't
18:38
Speaker 1: know if he's taken the full year to kind of
18:40
Speaker 1: observe and then put his fingerprints on the on the
18:41
Speaker 1: whole organization a little bit more. But I felt like
18:45
Speaker 1: he has not pushed a lot of buttons that maybe
18:50
Speaker 1: he saw it in Milwaukee getting the most out of
18:52
Speaker 1: the least. Now he has much more payroll to work with,
18:56
Speaker 1: much more on paper talent, even though that may not
18:59
Speaker 1: be true. So that's you know, I never covered him daily,
19:03
Speaker 1: so there is a difference. I didn't I didn't know him.
19:05
Speaker 1: I just know his personality, and his personality does match
19:08
Speaker 1: he's but he's kind of buttoned up, you know, in
19:11
Speaker 1: different settings. He's fun. He can be sarcastic. But I
19:16
Speaker 1: thought he put his fingerprints more on the team and
19:21
Speaker 1: that could manifest itself in a lot of ways. And frankly,
19:24
Speaker 1: of course, there's behind the scenes stuff we don't see,
19:27
Speaker 1: but we see the results, and the results aren't very good.
19:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're spot on with the evaluation here.
19:33
Speaker 4: And then you know, sometimes you come in the first
19:35
Speaker 4: year and you know you trade DJ Lemayu for where
19:41
Speaker 4: whatever that trade.
19:43
Speaker 3: In in story.
19:46
Speaker 4: I get that part of it, but I think the
19:48
Speaker 4: other part is very important what you mentioned of just
19:51
Speaker 4: the I don't think there are bad dudes in that clubhouse.
19:54
Speaker 4: I think they all work hard. I think they're very prepared,
19:57
Speaker 4: like I think they're into it. But it's also impossible
20:01
Speaker 4: to watch this team and think like, oh, this is
20:03
Speaker 4: like great, great chemistry, like the best possible mix.
20:07
Speaker 3: And I feel.
20:10
Speaker 4: I may have overreacted in hindsight with some of the
20:13
Speaker 4: Madden THEO raw stuff of just the you know, the
20:16
Speaker 4: idea of a hangover, like.
20:17
Speaker 3: Sometimes it just is a matter more of talent than
20:22
Speaker 3: anything else.
20:23
Speaker 4: But what is your vibe walking into that clubhouse every day,
20:27
Speaker 4: and like where does it kind of how do you
20:29
Speaker 4: kind of turn up some of those things if there
20:32
Speaker 4: are things missing?
20:33
Speaker 1: So I really want to run this by you because
20:35
Speaker 1: you were here for the last run and take away
20:40
Speaker 1: sixteen when they want just forget that for a moment,
20:43
Speaker 1: but it really feels in some ways like eighteen and
20:48
Speaker 1: nineteen you just said it. There were not bad guys
20:52
Speaker 1: in there, you know, they were likable guys in up
20:54
Speaker 1: individually likable guys now. But by eighteen or nineteen, for
20:59
Speaker 1: whatever reason, probably because they had one in sixteen, they
21:03
Speaker 1: weren't all position players. They were not on the same page.
21:07
Speaker 1: They just weren't And for some reason it feels kind
21:12
Speaker 1: of similar. Doesn't mean the camaraderie is not good, just
21:15
Speaker 1: something isn't flowing, isn't working in the same way it
21:19
Speaker 1: didn't work in eighteen or nineteen. Different names, different lineups
21:24
Speaker 1: and and different expectations, even like that team was supposed
21:27
Speaker 1: to really but within their bubble, it feels within each
21:31
Speaker 1: bubble it feels similar. I can't put my finger on it.
21:34
Speaker 1: It could be partly a lack of leadership in some ways.
21:39
Speaker 1: I don't like the phrase thoh, they're all leaders. That
21:41
Speaker 1: if if they're all leaders, you don't have twenty six leaders. No,
21:45
Speaker 1: that means you don't have one. And by eighteen or nineteen,
21:48
Speaker 1: position player wise, there was a lack of leadership. I
21:50
Speaker 1: think you would agree, yes. And the last point, when
21:55
Speaker 1: your best leader. Is your highest prey paid player at
22:00
Speaker 1: the most important position arguably on defense, shortstop, and he's
22:04
Speaker 1: having such a bad year that probably is going to
22:10
Speaker 1: create a leadership void. Even though Craig says you should
22:13
Speaker 1: be a leader no matter what you're doing, you know
22:15
Speaker 1: how it is. You can't be having this bad of
22:17
Speaker 1: a year and getting someone's face about their base running
22:20
Speaker 1: or something. So I think Dansby having the year he's having,
22:25
Speaker 1: I don't know this for sure, is probably impacting some
22:28
Speaker 1: of this stuff that I'm talking about.
22:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd agree with everything.
22:34
Speaker 6: I just.
22:36
Speaker 4: Like I said, from that prior experience of like how
22:38
Speaker 4: much of it is you know, I guess maybe just
22:41
Speaker 4: the blame game that's going to be going on at
22:43
Speaker 4: Wrigley Field over the next several months here of like,
22:47
Speaker 4: was it, you know, not enough talent being assembled? Was
22:52
Speaker 4: it not managed and coached up properly? Are the players
22:57
Speaker 4: just the mix just off in a certain way? And
23:01
Speaker 4: I think what I took away from that eighteen nineteen
23:05
Speaker 4: earrow was I did not fully appreciate them winning ninety
23:08
Speaker 4: five games in twenty eighteen.
23:10
Speaker 3: I think you had said that, you know, one of
23:12
Speaker 3: Joe's best jobs.
23:13
Speaker 4: Managing which in real time did not you know, really
23:16
Speaker 4: feel that way because of the way it ended, and
23:19
Speaker 4: even in you know, twenty nineteen, you know, staying as
23:22
Speaker 4: competitive as they did all the way until the end
23:27
Speaker 4: was you know, I think killing once you got some
23:32
Speaker 4: distance from it, that it's not that easy to do.
23:35
Speaker 3: We're seeing it right now, and so yeah, man, I
23:38
Speaker 3: don't know, we're gonna have a lot of.
23:41
Speaker 4: One liners in a size when we're sitting next to
23:43
Speaker 4: each other up in the press box over the next
23:45
Speaker 4: several weeks and months.
23:46
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, the answer might be back to
23:49
Speaker 1: what I said earlier. It's just really hard to compete
23:52
Speaker 1: and rebuild. It could just be as simple as that.
23:54
Speaker 1: And it's not leadership. But it's not this and it's
23:56
Speaker 1: not that. It's just really they just said from twenty
23:59
Speaker 1: two on, we're just going to try to build something.
24:03
Speaker 1: By twenty four we might be like, Okay, it's still built,
24:05
Speaker 1: like it just got it's got lost in the mess
24:08
Speaker 1: of trying to compete, and you know, it's admirable, but
24:11
Speaker 1: it could come back to bite jed. So that could
24:14
Speaker 1: just be the simple answer. I as I've thought about
24:16
Speaker 1: it more lately, I feel like that that could be it,
24:19
Speaker 1: because I just see like we want so much out
24:21
Speaker 1: of peak or armstrung like it's not easy unless you're
24:24
Speaker 1: Chris Bryant or Bryce Harper might like. It takes a
24:27
Speaker 1: little time, and you don't have time when you're trying
24:30
Speaker 1: to win.
24:31
Speaker 3: No doubt.
24:31
Speaker 4: I mean half measures in twenty twenty one, and they
24:34
Speaker 4: kind of overperformed and then they crashed, and then I
24:37
Speaker 4: think even last year kind of took cut them off
24:40
Speaker 4: guard a little bit.
24:41
Speaker 1: You know.
24:41
Speaker 3: I don't think they thought it would come together that way.
24:44
Speaker 4: It's certainly not that way with an eight game winning
24:46
Speaker 4: streak and then twelve games over in September, and so
24:48
Speaker 4: it's their messaging I think has not been exemplary. The
24:53
Speaker 4: execution has been a little off here and there, and
24:56
Speaker 4: that's why it's going to be very interesting late July.
25:02
Speaker 3: Jesse, thank you as always for the time and insight.
25:05
Speaker 4: I think we both behaved ourselves and didn't say anything
25:08
Speaker 4: inappropriate the way we do in the press box or
25:11
Speaker 4: at the hotel bar after the game.
25:14
Speaker 3: So thanks a man. I'll be seeing you soon.
25:17
Speaker 1: There were no bad takes on this one. Never never
25:22
Speaker 1: that'll spend rate not to take another reclation.
25:24
Speaker 3: All right, we'll do my man.
25:25
Speaker 1: Take it easy, Okay. You gotta put