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SMNTY Classics: Women Cult Leaders (Part 1) · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie Kansamantha. Welcome to stuff. I never
0:07
Speaker 1: told you objection, but I heard you, And today we
0:19
Speaker 1: are bringing back part one of our two part series
0:23
Speaker 1: of women cult Beaters. Yes, because, as we've discussed in
0:30
Speaker 1: recent times, we've been talking about cults a lot. I've
0:34
Speaker 1: seen a lot of stuff about cults popping up and
0:39
Speaker 1: getting a lot of attention on streaming a lot of
0:42
Speaker 1: different things and stirring up conversation there, so figured why
0:48
Speaker 1: not bring this? Why not?
0:49
Speaker 2: Apparently we Yeah, we've I've also been talking to people
0:52
Speaker 2: about it. One was about a cult through the Renaissance fair.
0:56
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, but that's been kind of the fascinating
1:02
Speaker 1: thing about all this different media about it is you're
1:05
Speaker 1: seeing all the various ways it can manifest. Who knew,
1:11
Speaker 1: well once we tried and apparently well, please enjoy part
1:20
Speaker 1: one of this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie and
1:28
Speaker 1: Samantha and welcome to stuff. I've never told your production.
1:31
Speaker 1: Iheartrate you. So, Samantha, are you into cult like entertainment?
1:46
Speaker 1: I am so.
1:47
Speaker 2: Actually, I don't know if you knew this. As I
1:49
Speaker 2: studied social work at the University of Georgia, I kind
1:52
Speaker 2: of had a secondary because I was stupid me.
1:56
Speaker 1: I don't know why I didn't keep going with it.
1:58
Speaker 2: I was like three or four classes away from actually
2:01
Speaker 2: having it as another major, but religion was going to
2:04
Speaker 2: be another major, and my focus was actually on cults
2:08
Speaker 2: Eastern religions. But that not that they have anything the same,
2:10
Speaker 2: they're not. But yeah, because I love the whole idea
2:14
Speaker 2: of cults and what it like, it's background kind of
2:17
Speaker 2: the beginnings of religion and how it started as cult
2:20
Speaker 2: like and then moving on. So yeah, I love different facts.
2:26
Speaker 2: Of course, that's the tragedies. I don't love that, but
2:29
Speaker 2: the fascination of why people follow, who they follow, and
2:31
Speaker 2: what they believe.
2:32
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I like we talked about in past episodes.
2:38
Speaker 1: I'm not really big into true crime and I haven't
2:41
Speaker 1: seen a lot of the documentaries or other I haven't
2:45
Speaker 1: listened to a lot of podcasts that have been done
2:47
Speaker 1: about these cults, but I do. It is one of
2:50
Speaker 1: my favorite kind of genres of horror that I find
2:54
Speaker 1: really upsetting and disturbing. One of my favorite video game
2:57
Speaker 1: series is Silent Hill, which has a big cult element.
3:00
Speaker 1: And I love Midsommar and the other lamb but they
3:05
Speaker 1: do freak me out. They really unsettle me. And I
3:09
Speaker 1: was in a cult based movie.
3:12
Speaker 2: Okay, that was not going in my head. You were
3:14
Speaker 2: about to say something else, like, wait, what it was
3:16
Speaker 2: in a cults? By the way, I have had friends
3:19
Speaker 2: who were part of cults, who grew up in cults
3:22
Speaker 2: or communes as they would call it, but they came
3:25
Speaker 2: with a lot of trauma.
3:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had. I might have told the story before
3:29
Speaker 1: on the show. As far as I know, I don't
3:31
Speaker 1: have any close friends or family that have been involved
3:33
Speaker 1: in cults. But I had a group of friends who
3:38
Speaker 1: uh wanted to see the audit process of scientology. Like
3:43
Speaker 1: they didn't want to join obviously. Well I don't know obviously,
3:47
Speaker 1: but they didn't want to join, and they made this.
3:50
Speaker 1: They were like, we're not going to get separated, we
3:52
Speaker 1: just want to like check it out. And they all
3:53
Speaker 1: got separated.
3:54
Speaker 2: I was like, yep, that's the beginning of like several
3:59
Speaker 2: sitcom episodes that I've seen. It's not fun, but they
4:03
Speaker 2: all get separated the first thing. They're like, oh no,
4:05
Speaker 2: and one of them eventually buison and the rest of
4:07
Speaker 2: them are like trying to get them out.
4:09
Speaker 1: So many plots, so many well, who do you think
4:13
Speaker 1: of when you think of cult leaders, like what is
4:14
Speaker 1: the stereotypical image that comes to mind?
4:17
Speaker 2: Course, like David Koresh is a big name in the
4:20
Speaker 2: US as someone that we know who is a big
4:23
Speaker 2: leader in cults. I think about actually scientology as part
4:28
Speaker 2: of that as well. So I think I'm not necessarily
4:30
Speaker 2: a leader. But Leah REMANI who has a show with iHeart,
4:34
Speaker 2: I believe talking about her time as a part of
4:38
Speaker 2: a scientologist group. I think about her sometimes just because
4:41
Speaker 2: she's so loud about it and there's not too many
4:44
Speaker 2: people who are willing to be loud about it. And
4:46
Speaker 2: I know one of the big things about cults and
4:48
Speaker 2: communies like that are specific to secrecy and blackmail, and
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Speaker 2: there's so many stories. Like I said, I've had friends
4:56
Speaker 2: who are parts of them who had been.
4:57
Speaker 1: Like they did this to me.
4:59
Speaker 2: They told me they had to give I had to
5:00
Speaker 2: give all this information to them, and how they kind
5:02
Speaker 2: of just like in a like a domestic violence situation,
5:05
Speaker 2: they strip them of their personality, they strip them of
5:08
Speaker 2: their identity. But yeah, I think about her too for
5:10
Speaker 2: some reason that she pospsed me my head. Obviously, again,
5:13
Speaker 2: not a leader, she's out and she's talking about some
5:15
Speaker 2: of the issues within her experiences. Yeah, but I find
5:19
Speaker 2: it interesting enough because it's one of the bigger, more
5:22
Speaker 2: popular ones thanks to celebrities, right her. So yeah, those
5:26
Speaker 2: are the ones that kind of pop into my head.
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Speaker 1: What about you? Yeah, I mean, she's definitely a vocal
5:32
Speaker 1: person when it comes to colts And this was researching
5:35
Speaker 1: this episode, I was shocked at how many times a
5:37
Speaker 1: celebrity would come up and I was like, wow, they
5:40
Speaker 1: were in this, Okay, Yeah, but I do like, if
5:42
Speaker 1: I just come up with the stereotypical cult leader image,
5:46
Speaker 1: it's usually a white dude with brown hair, darker hair,
5:53
Speaker 1: all bearded. Yeah, usually kind of Jesus Like yeah, honestly.
5:57
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the most fascinating studies that I did,
6:01
Speaker 2: or a book that I read and we researched and
6:03
Speaker 2: I can't even remember his name, was a book called
6:06
Speaker 2: The God's Chinese Son. Essentially, it was this man from
6:10
Speaker 2: China who truly believed he was Jesus's brother and started
6:15
Speaker 2: his own cult within China. But a little not like
6:18
Speaker 2: I don't hear too many where they use Christian based
6:21
Speaker 2: idea within like China and all that I've not.
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Speaker 1: Heard too many. Maybe it's because I haven't looked it up.
6:27
Speaker 1: There are going to be a few we're going to
6:28
Speaker 1: talk about in here, but yeah, and I know, like
6:31
Speaker 1: this there's a fascination of cults in general, and like
6:36
Speaker 1: Snel recently did that like music video where the women
6:40
Speaker 1: were talking about how they love murder shows and then
6:42
Speaker 1: at the end Nick Jonas comes in I think it
6:44
Speaker 1: was him, and he was like, what about the cult shows? Yeah,
6:50
Speaker 1: so we are talking about women cult leaders specifically in
6:55
Speaker 1: this one, and we're planning on returning to discuss women
6:57
Speaker 1: in cults at large, which we will touch on a
6:59
Speaker 1: little bit. But yeah, we wanted to talk about some
7:02
Speaker 1: of the ladies at the at the forefront of these cults,
7:05
Speaker 1: and it turns out there's more than we thought. So
7:08
Speaker 1: this is a two harder but yeah.
7:11
Speaker 2: So essentially, after the news broke out about the leader
7:14
Speaker 2: of Love has won, which we're going to talk about
7:16
Speaker 2: her a little bit, we came to a point We're like, wait,
7:18
Speaker 2: how many female cult leaders are there?
7:22
Speaker 1: And what? Wow?
7:24
Speaker 2: Why there's so many just questions So definitely wanted to
7:28
Speaker 2: look again. Didn't realize there were so many.
7:30
Speaker 1: Yes, And before we get into this trigger warning. We
7:33
Speaker 1: are going to be discussing suicide, sexual abuse, violence, death, murder,
7:38
Speaker 1: general abuse, just some not so savory things, right because
7:42
Speaker 1: we're talking about cults. But we're not going to go
7:44
Speaker 1: too in depth into any of that. And reminder always
7:50
Speaker 1: remember that, yes, these are real people still dealing with
7:52
Speaker 1: the fallout in many cases of what we're talking about,
7:55
Speaker 1: and like in our Serial Killers episode, the history can
7:57
Speaker 1: be a bit exaggerated and hard to pin down, but
7:59
Speaker 1: we did our best, right. Yeah, So all right, let's
8:04
Speaker 1: do some basics here before we get into some of
8:07
Speaker 1: the women leaders. After the Manson family shocked the public
8:11
Speaker 1: with the murders, cults became a big source of anxiety
8:14
Speaker 1: in the United States, and anxiety that lasted from the
8:16
Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties until the nineteen nineties, spurred on by
8:20
Speaker 1: media coverage. But what exactly is a cult? Well, it
8:26
Speaker 1: turns out that is a very hard definition to have
8:28
Speaker 1: been down. Nobody wants to be too precise, it seems
8:33
Speaker 1: from a Pen Today article, cult is a term that
8:36
Speaker 1: doesn't refer to a religion at all, but is applied
8:38
Speaker 1: to a social movement. People have intuitive feelings about how
8:42
Speaker 1: the word cults should be used, even when an organization
8:45
Speaker 1: or movement meets the criteria of a new religion. Take
8:48
Speaker 1: for example, Scientilogy and Mormonism. Both were new religious movements
8:52
Speaker 1: that have evolved into a general understanding of definition of
8:55
Speaker 1: a religion. However, according to Pew Research, non Mormons in
8:58
Speaker 1: the US are more likely to label Mormonism as a cult.
9:03
Speaker 1: Scientology and Mormonism have outlived their charismatic leaders and side
9:08
Speaker 1: note from me, the charismatic leader bit is really key
9:11
Speaker 1: in this whole thing, The article continues. They have openly
9:14
Speaker 1: published their beliefs as scripture. Both religions seek truth by
9:17
Speaker 1: offering its followers a roadmap for their place in the universe,
9:20
Speaker 1: along with a moral code. Those who accept the beliefs
9:22
Speaker 1: and rituals are members of their religion, but many outside
9:26
Speaker 1: consider the movement and its followers to be a cult.
9:29
Speaker 1: And then it goes on to quote linguistics professor Robin Clark,
9:32
Speaker 1: the word cult originally designates a practice of religious veneration
9:36
Speaker 1: and the religious system based around such veneration, for example,
9:40
Speaker 1: the cults of Our Lady of Godalupe. However, the word
9:42
Speaker 1: was co opted in the first half of the twentieth
9:44
Speaker 1: century by sociology and has come to denote a social
9:47
Speaker 1: group with socially deviant beliefs and practices like a UFO cult.
9:53
Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of hypocrisy and suspicion when
9:56
Speaker 1: it comes to Eastern religions and anything affiliated with them
10:00
Speaker 1: in the US, especially when they've become successful. Basically, anything
10:03
Speaker 1: that's not Christianity couldn't get caught up in this whole
10:06
Speaker 1: cult conversation. And yeah, that whole idea. There have been
10:11
Speaker 1: a lot of arguments about a new religion sort of
10:15
Speaker 1: if it doesn't fit into this Christianity framework being called
10:20
Speaker 1: a cult. And cults can't exist in multiple numbers of ways, religious, commercial, familial,
10:25
Speaker 1: just to name a few. And yeah, the typically that
10:28
Speaker 1: charismatic leader is really really key and some of the
10:32
Speaker 1: things we're going to talk about like maybe was a
10:34
Speaker 1: cult at one time and then evolved out of it
10:38
Speaker 1: or just depending on who the leader is, right, which
10:42
Speaker 1: actually has been the source of conversation around trump Ism.
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Speaker 2: Right. And again, this is why we wanted to look
10:48
Speaker 2: at the female leaders because it is so centered around
10:52
Speaker 2: the leaders these different groups. It's fascinating to see people
10:56
Speaker 2: following women in general. So to have the charisma, Yeah,
11:02
Speaker 2: it's typically understated, which is probably why I didn't know
11:05
Speaker 2: as many of these names as I do of male leaders.
11:08
Speaker 2: But that's a whole different thing. So let's talk about
11:10
Speaker 2: some numbers. So, according to Tennessee State University, there are
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Speaker 2: thousands of cults in America, and some harless, some dangerous.
11:17
Speaker 1: Not surprising.
11:18
Speaker 2: They go on to define cult as a group or
11:20
Speaker 2: movement held together by a shared commitment to a charismatic
11:23
Speaker 2: leader or ideology. It has a belief system that has
11:26
Speaker 2: the answers to all of life's questions and offers a
11:29
Speaker 2: special solution to be gained only by following the leader's rules.
11:33
Speaker 2: It requires a high level of commitment from at least
11:36
Speaker 2: some of the members, So again, the definition can get
11:39
Speaker 2: quite murky and cause a lot of debate. For instance,
11:43
Speaker 2: there's a huge conversation right now around till Swan, a
11:46
Speaker 2: new age spiritual self proclaimed health guru who purports to
11:49
Speaker 2: the powers that allow her to not only look inside
11:52
Speaker 2: people's bodies and see what's going on, but us also
11:55
Speaker 2: allow her to recover repressed memories within people and deal
11:58
Speaker 2: with childhood trauma. She was one of the names I
12:01
Speaker 2: didn't see. Students paid two thousand dollars or more to
12:05
Speaker 2: work with her. The debate around her sparked after a
12:08
Speaker 2: student of hers took their life. Swan, who has a
12:12
Speaker 2: huge social media presence, has encouraged followers and students to
12:15
Speaker 2: imagine their suicides in detail. She says quote, we're all
12:19
Speaker 2: going to get suicidal for a moment. In some of
12:22
Speaker 2: her YouTube videos, she calls suicide a relief, a reset button.
12:26
Speaker 2: Her channel has half a million subscribers, and at the
12:29
Speaker 2: same time she creates a space for conversations around suicidal
12:32
Speaker 2: thoughts and child sexual abuse. She has plenty of seemingly
12:37
Speaker 2: harmless content on finding joy and stuff like that, and
12:42
Speaker 2: videos that have racked up millions of views, but she
12:45
Speaker 2: does this without any real accountability or responsibility when people
12:50
Speaker 2: who listen to her may need professional help. Some members
12:53
Speaker 2: of the Quote Till tribe claim that the only reason
12:56
Speaker 2: they are alive today is because of what Till taught them.
13:00
Speaker 1: And if you want to learn more about Swan, you
13:02
Speaker 1: can check out the six part Gizmodo podcast series called
13:05
Speaker 1: The Gateway. Pretty Much everybody we talk about in here,
13:07
Speaker 1: and every cult we talk about, has either a podcast,
13:10
Speaker 1: a Netflix documentary, or both, So if you want to
13:12
Speaker 1: learn more you can the mediums are out there for you,
13:18
Speaker 1: and this is a case where we're really having to
13:20
Speaker 1: as a society update our thoughts on cults to include
13:23
Speaker 1: modern circumstances and technology. Teal uses SEO or search words
13:28
Speaker 1: basically to target vulnerable people, so if someone searches I
13:31
Speaker 1: want to kill myself, they might get served up for videos.
13:35
Speaker 1: Some argue this is also an instance of cults run
13:38
Speaker 1: by women not being taken seriously as compared to cults
13:41
Speaker 1: led by men, that cults run by women aren't labeled
13:44
Speaker 1: as cults when perhaps they should be. The word cult
13:47
Speaker 1: itself is often gendered when it comes to things like
13:51
Speaker 1: cults of skincare or cult of domesticity. Multi marketing companies
13:55
Speaker 1: are sometimes put in the same category as cults, many
13:58
Speaker 1: of them run by women. Obviously, that's a whole different topic,
14:02
Speaker 1: and not all emilms would qualify as cults, but just
14:06
Speaker 1: for instance, and I think there's another conversation we could
14:09
Speaker 1: have about things like QAnon and how they target women
14:11
Speaker 1: through self help and yoga groups with these ideas of
14:14
Speaker 1: protecting children often and just all of that sort of
14:19
Speaker 1: being dismissed as well. That's a lady thing. We don't
14:22
Speaker 1: need to pay serious attention to this.
14:25
Speaker 2: All right, I know we definitely talked a little bit
14:27
Speaker 2: about that in our past episode on QAnon and women,
14:30
Speaker 2: when we talked about the specific groups such as the
14:33
Speaker 2: red Pill group and all of that which does target
14:35
Speaker 2: women in that group, as well as giving them mentors,
14:38
Speaker 2: which is familiar, right, and then who their leaders are
14:43
Speaker 2: and who they see as leaders, And typically they're all
14:45
Speaker 2: moms of some sort or caretakers of some sort, so
14:48
Speaker 2: it's definitely interesting to see that. So cult leaders themselves
14:52
Speaker 2: are generally charismatic, compelling, and absolutely unshakable, like they will
14:56
Speaker 2: argue with you until.
14:58
Speaker 1: The cows come home. I couldn't think I'm a better saying.
15:03
Speaker 2: They are often compared to domestic abusers and follow a
15:06
Speaker 2: lot of the same patterns, including starting with something called
15:09
Speaker 2: love bombing, basically showering you with attention not always positive,
15:13
Speaker 2: and in the early stages a seduction period where the
15:16
Speaker 2: person recruiting you makes you feel special, which is very
15:19
Speaker 2: familiar as we know when it comes to grooming. But
15:22
Speaker 2: in a cult there are promises, a family of meaning
15:25
Speaker 2: of enlightenment, empowerment, money, being a part of something more
15:28
Speaker 2: and the bigger and the role you'll play in that.
15:31
Speaker 2: And then once you've got in isolation is next exerting control.
15:35
Speaker 1: Right from University of Tennessee. Again, most cult leaders have
15:40
Speaker 1: narcissistic personality disorder. Symptoms include an excessive need for admiration,
15:44
Speaker 1: disregard for others feelings and inability to handle any criticism,
15:48
Speaker 1: and a sense of entitlement. So when it comes to
15:51
Speaker 1: who these cults target, while vulnerable people or people in
15:56
Speaker 1: a transitional period in life, like if you've just lost
15:58
Speaker 1: a job or gone through a really big breakup are
16:00
Speaker 1: often targeted, no one is immune from Jon T. Tam,
16:05
Speaker 1: who wrote Cartwheels in a Sorry, a memoir of growing
16:07
Speaker 1: up in a cult, quote, the aptitude and capacity to
16:10
Speaker 1: exploit human beings is universal and with the right ambitious
16:14
Speaker 1: and charismatic leader, any group easily could morph into a cult.
16:19
Speaker 1: And doctor Yanya Lalich, a cult leader researcher out of
16:22
Speaker 1: California State University, says, cult leaders will always get their
16:26
Speaker 1: people to what I call reframe their lives. They reinterpret
16:29
Speaker 1: their lives so they see everything from before the cult
16:31
Speaker 1: as messed up, and only by staying with the cult
16:34
Speaker 1: leader will they get straightened out from doctor Alexandria Stein,
16:38
Speaker 1: author of Terror, Love and Brainwashing, Attachment and Cults until
16:41
Speaker 1: Tellitarian Systems. All of it is about arousing fear and
16:44
Speaker 1: the victim. Once you're fearful and they're the only person
16:47
Speaker 1: you've got, you will go towards the only resource you have,
16:50
Speaker 1: which is the person who is frightening you. If I'm frightened,
16:53
Speaker 1: I go and see my friend or call my mom.
16:55
Speaker 1: It's instinctive. But when the only person left is the
16:58
Speaker 1: frightening person, you are trapped. You're trapped emotionally clinging to them,
17:02
Speaker 1: hoping they alleviate the pain, but that never happens, so
17:05
Speaker 1: you end up in a feedback loop of fear. From there,
17:07
Speaker 1: you cognitively disassociate and become unable to think about the
17:10
Speaker 1: situation you're in. That's why it's so hard to understand
17:13
Speaker 1: from the outside. People say, why doesn't she just leave
17:16
Speaker 1: about someone in a relationship, and why didn't they just
17:19
Speaker 1: leave about someone In a cult, they're trapped there by
17:21
Speaker 1: a trauma bond and unable to think clearly for themselves.
17:25
Speaker 2: So toxic masculinity fits perfectly with these cult leaders. Commodification
17:29
Speaker 2: and control of female bodies a need to display power
17:32
Speaker 2: at all times, and because of this, heterosexual men often
17:36
Speaker 2: use their position as cult leaders to meet their predatory
17:39
Speaker 2: sexual desires, and we've seen a lot of accounts of that.
17:42
Speaker 2: There are accounts of women and cults forced to get
17:44
Speaker 2: abortions having sex with a male cult leader. Violence, emotional
17:48
Speaker 2: and psychological abuse, and coercions are frequently employed against women
17:52
Speaker 2: and cults and cults sometimes separate children from their parents,
17:55
Speaker 2: allowing for sexual abuse, and in several instances there are
17:59
Speaker 2: women up the male cult leader and the cult of
18:02
Speaker 2: self helping with recruitment and the general running of the cult.
18:05
Speaker 2: Jim jones former lover Carolyn Layton was right behind them
18:09
Speaker 2: in terms of influencing the Jones Down massacre. Or there's
18:12
Speaker 2: Naomi Jessup, the favorite wife of Warren Jeffs, who stood
18:16
Speaker 2: by and offered counseling while he was undergoing trial and
18:18
Speaker 2: citizen for child abuse and molestation, and he ended up
18:22
Speaker 2: serving time for aggravated sexual as seulf for underage girls. However,
18:27
Speaker 2: it is important to point out that these women themselves
18:30
Speaker 2: were indoctrinated. And again, when we talked about the Manson family,
18:33
Speaker 2: we talked about the women talking about not knowing what
18:36
Speaker 2: they were walking into, thinking they were just coming into
18:38
Speaker 2: a circle of love essentially again because they came into
18:43
Speaker 2: this young and trying, just searching for something. What differentiates
18:47
Speaker 2: them from other members is that they were able to
18:49
Speaker 2: earn the cult leaders trust and thus power for themselves,
18:53
Speaker 2: and often this is a form of protection or self
18:55
Speaker 2: preservation in the face of trauma and abuse. Holding a
18:58
Speaker 2: position of trust can shield them from rule and punishments
19:00
Speaker 2: other members face, perhaps again forming a trauma bond with
19:04
Speaker 2: the cult leader, and again this is very reminiscent of
19:07
Speaker 2: being in a vulneoral relationship. They frequently head up recruitment,
19:12
Speaker 2: projecting a maternal nature and caring to bring in new members,
19:15
Speaker 2: and many of them, often young women, use for the
19:18
Speaker 2: cult leader's sexual gratification. And of course, if you look
19:21
Speaker 2: at who they are and sometimes what they're called, they're
19:23
Speaker 2: often just called mother or mother so and so. So
19:26
Speaker 2: it's interesting to see again the naming, mass weddings, arranged marriages, grooming,
19:31
Speaker 2: forced abortions, and reproductive control and all forms of sexual
19:34
Speaker 2: abuse are so frequently utilized in cults.
19:37
Speaker 1: Right Another example of a cult recently garnering mainstream attention
19:41
Speaker 1: is Nexium, the so called self help organization that's now
19:44
Speaker 1: called a sex cult. Once members started getting arrested, Nexium
19:48
Speaker 1: dictated that members cut up ties with friends and family,
19:51
Speaker 1: replacing those relationships within the group while controlling pretty much
19:55
Speaker 1: their entire lives. While the leaders slash founder is a
19:59
Speaker 1: man Renier or Vanguard as he went by, a man
20:03
Speaker 1: that members believed was the smartest man alive and therefore
20:06
Speaker 1: the planet's only hope for survival. It was largely run
20:09
Speaker 1: by women, and it was co founded by a woman
20:11
Speaker 1: named Nancy Salzman aka the Prefects, who was a registered nurse.
20:16
Speaker 1: Women were the ones doing the recruitment presenting the public image.
20:20
Speaker 1: Actor Alison Mack was one of these women. She's become
20:22
Speaker 1: one of the faces you probably think of first. What
20:25
Speaker 1: Nexium offered was largely run by women and geared towards women,
20:29
Speaker 1: sold as self help sessions promising happiness and independence. Intense
20:33
Speaker 1: twelve hour sessions ran at seven five hundred dollars. In
20:38
Speaker 1: the words of a former member on the podcast Escaping
20:40
Speaker 1: Nexium about her experience being ads or Dominus obsequious sororium
20:45
Speaker 1: in Latin or master of the slave women. This was
20:48
Speaker 1: a women's group advertised to her as a badass bitch
20:51
Speaker 1: boot camp. Others said it was painted as a feminist
20:55
Speaker 1: group desiring to help women deal with intimacy issues. The
20:59
Speaker 1: former member on to describe how she was pressured by
21:02
Speaker 1: her master, a woman she counted as a friend entrusted,
21:06
Speaker 1: to get a brand when she was inducted, which she
21:09
Speaker 1: only found out later included Ranier's initials. Getting the brand
21:13
Speaker 1: required the woman to be naked, bound and taped like
21:18
Speaker 1: filmed before they received it. They were supposed to say,
21:21
Speaker 1: please brand me. It would be an and honor I
21:24
Speaker 1: want to wear for the rest of my life. I
21:25
Speaker 1: believe that was so they could prove that they consented.
21:29
Speaker 1: The ex member described this whole process is similar to
21:32
Speaker 1: the frog and the slowly boiling pot, incremental in stages,
21:35
Speaker 1: cutting her off from support systems that may have helped her.
21:38
Speaker 1: She said, you know, if you had told me I'd
21:40
Speaker 1: be getting a brand at the beginning, I would have
21:42
Speaker 1: said no way, But it just happened so slowly. Members
21:47
Speaker 1: of DOS were also required to give up something as collateral,
21:51
Speaker 1: like a video of them masturbating or confession of being
21:53
Speaker 1: the victim of sexual abuse, off and false. Ranier once
21:57
Speaker 1: said he believed women were easier to control, and he
21:59
Speaker 1: would turn women against each other, especially if there was
22:01
Speaker 1: any resistance sort defiance. So if you had a kind
22:03
Speaker 1: of higher up position and you did something you didn't like,
22:06
Speaker 1: he'd be like, well, I'll just go to her. She
22:07
Speaker 1: doesn't complain. He was extremely controlling about their weights too.
22:12
Speaker 2: So Mack was arrusted and federally indicted on charges like
22:14
Speaker 2: sex trafficking. She appealed, pleading guilty to two charges of racketeering,
22:19
Speaker 2: and when Yer was sentenced to one hundred and twenty
22:21
Speaker 2: years in prison in twenty nineteen for charges including exploiting
22:24
Speaker 2: a child in possession of child pornography. Also something you
22:27
Speaker 2: should know several women were behind taking when you're down.
22:30
Speaker 2: I know that there's a whole documentary about that happening.
22:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, this just remind me, and I was telling Samantha
22:37
Speaker 1: before we did this, we could do a whole episode
22:39
Speaker 1: on just the level of misogyny involved in this one alone,
22:43
Speaker 1: because a lot of people were like, how did kind
22:47
Speaker 1: of that same idea? Ha? Did so many you know,
22:50
Speaker 1: seemingly very smart women who get into this kind of
22:54
Speaker 1: feminist camp. But it was just full of this toxic,
22:58
Speaker 1: misogynistic ideas and it's really really fascinating. So I think
23:02
Speaker 1: we could come back and revisit this one. But it
23:04
Speaker 1: did remind me of things like Wickerman, where you like
23:06
Speaker 1: send the women out to bring people back into your
23:10
Speaker 1: I don't.
23:10
Speaker 2: Know that one. That's one I don't know.
23:14
Speaker 1: Well, you know about the bees, though not the bees,
23:18
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Samantha's giving me an empty like well,
23:21
Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite. That's one of the most
23:22
Speaker 1: well known Nicholas Cage memes.
23:26
Speaker 2: I need to go back and look it up now.
23:27
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm missing out somehow, But yeah, I
23:29
Speaker 2: mean one of the big things that was successful, again
23:31
Speaker 2: we can get into this is the fact that he
23:33
Speaker 2: did use women to recruit, and that's been a trick
23:35
Speaker 2: from the beginning. We know this as kind of what's
23:37
Speaker 2: happening within trafficking as well. We know a lot of
23:40
Speaker 2: that happens to be typically people who are in that
23:44
Speaker 2: life and being told this is great, let me tell
23:45
Speaker 2: you how it'll change your life and it's not as
23:47
Speaker 2: bad as you think, and they grow to trust because
23:51
Speaker 2: just like in many schemes, you find for so many
23:53
Speaker 2: people who trust women when it comes to that and
23:56
Speaker 2: thinking that they're safe and they can defend themselves, kind
23:59
Speaker 2: of that whole level. So there's a whole different conversation
24:01
Speaker 2: in itself, and the tactics on recruiting, which again has
24:05
Speaker 2: been used before in many ways. Again, this doesn't mean
24:09
Speaker 2: women can't be cult leaders. And yeah, we'll get into
24:12
Speaker 2: that after a quick break from a word from our sponsor.
24:27
Speaker 1: And we're back, Thank you sponsor. Just a brief disclaimer, people,
24:32
Speaker 1: including the women we're going to talk about, do still
24:35
Speaker 1: argue about whether some, if not all, of these constitute
24:38
Speaker 1: as cults. There are particular issues an racism, sexism, and yes,
24:42
Speaker 1: any like anti anything but Christianity sentiment. But here are
24:48
Speaker 1: some examples that commonly come up when you're talking about
24:52
Speaker 1: women cult leaders. Let's start with one that might be
24:57
Speaker 1: the most well known thanks to the Netflix documentary Wild
25:01
Speaker 1: Wild Country Shila Burnsteel arm Anad Shila. Most well known
25:07
Speaker 1: is that's probably very specific to when you were born, actually,
25:10
Speaker 1: but for me, this is one that's up there.
25:12
Speaker 2: I was gonna say this is one that I watched
25:14
Speaker 2: for sure.
25:15
Speaker 1: I remember when it came out. I didn't watch it,
25:17
Speaker 1: but I just remember hearing people talk about it and
25:19
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, this is a documentary, this really happened. Yeah,
25:22
Speaker 1: and she is still just chilling. Yep, she is. So
25:27
Speaker 1: she was technically the leader. As the personal assistant to
25:31
Speaker 1: the Indian Guru of Rajniche Peram, Bagwan Shri Rajnich, she
25:36
Speaker 1: exerted a lot of control. She convinced him to purchase
25:39
Speaker 1: the plot of land that would become Rajniche Peram, which
25:42
Speaker 1: she later purchased herself. She was in charge of external communications,
25:46
Speaker 1: big events the cults foundation. She controlled the diets and
25:50
Speaker 1: clothing of members. Many suggest that she really ran pretty
25:54
Speaker 1: much everything. The Rajniche movement was a combination of Western philosophy,
26:00
Speaker 1: Eastern mysticism, and free love. At its peak, there were
26:03
Speaker 1: thousands of members worldwide, many of them upper class white
26:06
Speaker 1: people looking for enlightenment, and at one point the cult
26:09
Speaker 1: was worth about sixty five million dollars. When they were
26:12
Speaker 1: kicked out of India in nineteen eighty, they moved the
26:15
Speaker 1: movement to Wasscow County in Oregon and built this mini city,
26:19
Speaker 1: Rashniche Peram. Their neighbors viewed them as a dangerous sex cult.
26:24
Speaker 1: The tensions between the locals and rajniche Peram escalated. There
26:28
Speaker 1: was arson, integration, fraud, espionage, and arms race, all kinds
26:32
Speaker 1: of things.
26:33
Speaker 2: If you haven't watched it, you should because just the
26:35
Speaker 2: interviews with the townspeople is entertaining. Eventually, Shilo went to
26:40
Speaker 2: jail for thirty nine months for planning and carrying out
26:43
Speaker 2: biological terrorism. No one was killed, but yeah, over seven
26:46
Speaker 2: hundred people were poisoned in attempt to impact local election.
26:50
Speaker 2: There's a whole thing about politics in Here's pretty interesting.
26:54
Speaker 2: Sheila has fled to Europe, but was arrested in Germany
26:56
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty six and extradited to the US, where
26:58
Speaker 2: she faced federal and state charges including wiretapping, attempted poisoning
27:03
Speaker 2: separate from this one, bioteror event, immigration violations, and attempted murder.
27:08
Speaker 2: And when people who lived at Rasenishpiram watched the Netflix documentary,
27:12
Speaker 2: many of them expressed complete shock at how much power
27:15
Speaker 2: Sheila wil died. Sheila herself had seemed surprised at the
27:18
Speaker 2: parts of the documentary she watched, including when she escaped
27:21
Speaker 2: Rajenichi Piram. And Rogenie said of her quote, she did
27:23
Speaker 2: not prove to be a woman. She proved to be
27:26
Speaker 2: a perfect bitch. But she said, in response to questions
27:29
Speaker 2: about it, how can one's opinion change because someone said
27:31
Speaker 2: something negative about me. I love the man, I still
27:34
Speaker 2: love him, and for her it was and is always
27:37
Speaker 2: about him more. She does a really good job of
27:40
Speaker 2: making it look that way. I will say she is
27:42
Speaker 2: an interesting and charismatic speaker when you watch her, because
27:46
Speaker 2: she did a lot of media for the group, so
27:50
Speaker 2: it was interesting for sure.
27:52
Speaker 1: Yes, and she has a lot of really really good quotes.
27:56
Speaker 1: Here's one. What does love have to do with sex?
27:58
Speaker 1: We were taught to associate sex with love to compensate.
28:01
Speaker 1: You feel sexual but are afraid to declare it. You
28:03
Speaker 1: say I love you. In my life it has always
28:06
Speaker 1: been separate. I can tell someone I want to go
28:08
Speaker 1: to bed with them, I have no qualms about it
28:10
Speaker 1: and enjoy being in bed. And if I love somebody,
28:12
Speaker 1: I love somebody. They are two separate events and I
28:15
Speaker 1: love this. When compared to Kelly and Conway, she said, no,
28:18
Speaker 1: I don't allow that comparison. That much pride I have
28:22
Speaker 1: has okay, And then she also said, in spite of
28:27
Speaker 1: the guillotine, they haven't killed me yet. They haven't killed
28:30
Speaker 1: my spirit. No matter where I go, I will always
28:32
Speaker 1: wear the crown. I'm not afraid of being under guillotine.
28:36
Speaker 1: She was talking about like, if you're in power, there's
28:39
Speaker 1: always the threat of the guillotine, and this was what
28:42
Speaker 1: she said. Yes, I like it and yeah. After the documentary,
28:45
Speaker 1: a lot of people admitted to loving Sheila, and some
28:48
Speaker 1: even argued about whether or not she was a feminist
28:50
Speaker 1: or a feminist figure. Her catchphrase was tough titties again.
28:55
Speaker 1: Yes these days Sheila runs a care home in Switzerland
28:57
Speaker 1: and remains unapologetic, saying that call it at Coults is
29:01
Speaker 1: insulting and yeah, not to again, these are real people
29:05
Speaker 1: and they were real ramifications, right, But she certainly was
29:08
Speaker 1: charismatic and I think she was even on the cover
29:11
Speaker 1: of some big magazine naked. Like she she was influential
29:16
Speaker 1: and she controlled. She had a lot of power within
29:18
Speaker 1: this right.
29:19
Speaker 2: Some of the past members when talking about her is
29:22
Speaker 2: obviously they were traumatized, but so some of them were
29:25
Speaker 2: like she did this, Like she just kind of at
29:27
Speaker 2: that level of like wow, the control or just the
29:30
Speaker 2: background player that she was and surprised many people. So
29:34
Speaker 2: it was really interesting to watch, so next we want
29:37
Speaker 2: to talk about Talk John Hanmon, who was married to
29:40
Speaker 2: the founder of the Korean New Age Unification Church, Sun
29:43
Speaker 2: Young Moon. Founding in nineteen fifty four, The Unification Church
29:46
Speaker 2: was at peak popularity in the nineteen seventies, perhaps reaching
29:50
Speaker 2: fifty thousand members around the world despite boasting millions. Nineteen
29:55
Speaker 2: seventy one is also the same year the Moon's moved
29:58
Speaker 2: the church to the US. The church to advertise a
30:00
Speaker 2: feeling of belonging, peace and love, tolerance, enlightenment, spirituality, and happiness.
30:06
Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty, Sun married the then seventeen year old
30:09
Speaker 2: Talk and they would go on to have several children together.
30:13
Speaker 1: Sun claimed himself to be God's Messiah, meaning that his
30:15
Speaker 1: words were the end all be all overwriting all other beliefs, thoughts, desires, feelings, etc.
30:21
Speaker 1: Because of this, the church and Sun himself wielded massive
30:25
Speaker 1: control over the members' lives. Some reports suggest that Moonies
30:30
Speaker 1: may work up to twenty two hours a day while
30:32
Speaker 1: fasting to a tone for their sins and Yeah. Mooney's
30:36
Speaker 1: was a sort of derogatory term given to the followers
30:39
Speaker 1: of this Unification Church. Guidelines around sexual behavior were very strict,
30:44
Speaker 1: particularly regarding premarital sex and homosexuality, and these mass weddings,
30:49
Speaker 1: and we're we're talking stadium sized events with up to
30:53
Speaker 1: twenty five hundred couples getting married and forty thousand spectators.
30:57
Speaker 1: This event called the Blessing, were a part of enforcing
31:01
Speaker 1: these guidelines. Together, Son and Hawk were known as True
31:04
Speaker 1: Father and True Mother, the true parents free from the
31:08
Speaker 1: original sin. They later crowned themselves Emperor and Impress of
31:12
Speaker 1: the Universe. And if I'm remembering correctly, twelve US Senators
31:16
Speaker 1: were at that event at the time. Hawk is also
31:19
Speaker 1: called Mother of Peace, the Perfect Woman, and the Bride
31:23
Speaker 1: of Christ. Right.
31:24
Speaker 2: So here's a description of one of the mass weddings
31:27
Speaker 2: by Carlisle Murphy and Linda Willard that appeared in the
31:30
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven Washington Post article. The Reverend Moon and
31:33
Speaker 2: his wife hawkjaw Han Moon, showing a flair reminiscent of
31:36
Speaker 2: old Broadway musicals, held hands and descended a red carpet
31:40
Speaker 2: staircase flaked by white road attendants. After a symbolic sprinkling
31:45
Speaker 2: of water, they led couples in saying I do to
31:48
Speaker 2: four pledges recited during the noontime blessings ninety seven ceremony,
31:53
Speaker 2: among them a promise to quote inherit the tradition of
31:56
Speaker 2: the Unification Church and pass its proud tradition down to
32:00
Speaker 2: future generations of Unification families and to all mankind. When
32:04
Speaker 2: the wedding and blessing portion of the program ended, Sun
32:07
Speaker 2: Myung Moon and Huck Jahan Moons sat wrigally on two
32:10
Speaker 2: thrones and were given two large bouquets and a trophy.
32:13
Speaker 2: Neil Salonan, a church official who served as Master of ceremonies,
32:17
Speaker 2: asked those assembled to think the Moons as is the
32:19
Speaker 2: Asian custom, by bowing to the couple, and most stadium
32:23
Speaker 2: attendees tilted at the waist wow.
32:25
Speaker 1: The church made an unverified claim that three point six
32:28
Speaker 1: million people participated in this worldwide. They were big on
32:31
Speaker 1: really inflating those numbers. Most of the people married in
32:35
Speaker 1: the ceremony had only met a few weeks prior, matched
32:38
Speaker 1: by church officials. The church has no official capacity to
32:42
Speaker 1: marry people, but many consider themselves spiritually married, and Whitney
32:46
Speaker 1: Houston was supposed to sing at this but canceled due
32:49
Speaker 1: to illness, as the story goes, at the last minute,
32:52
Speaker 1: so some of the crowd could be explained that way.
32:54
Speaker 1: Maybe they were there to see Whitney Houston. Dian Worwick
32:57
Speaker 1: was there to introduce ax Thom and Yes. While the
33:02
Speaker 1: church does claim to have fifty thousand members in the
33:05
Speaker 1: US alone, the numbers believed to be closer to a
33:07
Speaker 1: few thousand at most. A devout anti communist, Son once
33:11
Speaker 1: believed the US to be the world's beacon, but thinks
33:13
Speaker 1: at least in part to financial woes. In the nineteen nineties,
33:17
Speaker 1: he flipped, calling America quote Satan's harvest. He'd also gone
33:21
Speaker 1: to jail in the US for eighteen months for charges
33:24
Speaker 1: of tax fraud and conspiracy. Man, it's a hard flood
33:27
Speaker 1: right there.
33:29
Speaker 2: Han founded the Women's Federation of World Peace in nineteen
33:32
Speaker 2: ninety two, an organization that promotes women working harder to
33:35
Speaker 2: achieve peace in their communities. She spoke at the WFWP
33:39
Speaker 2: event with former president George hw. Bush I said w
33:43
Speaker 2: I feel like that's the way you do it in
33:45
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, saying that her husband had to save
33:48
Speaker 2: the US from quote the destruction of the family in
33:51
Speaker 2: moral decay. Around the same time, her husband elevated her
33:55
Speaker 2: right to be on par with her, so there's promotion.
33:58
Speaker 2: In two thousand and five, Sun Moon and doctor Hawk
34:01
Speaker 2: Moon founded the Universal Peace Foundation, which is considered a
34:05
Speaker 2: NGO in general consultative status with the UN at twenty
34:09
Speaker 2: twenty upf event, Hawk moons that the goals of the
34:11
Speaker 2: organizations were to set up Korean War memorials in the
34:14
Speaker 2: countries that don't have them, and to put together a
34:16
Speaker 2: registry of anyone who made any sacrifices for Korea. By
34:20
Speaker 2: my son died in twenty twelve.
34:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, and perhaps clearly we're not really getting too much
34:26
Speaker 1: in depth into the spiritual religious beliefs of these organizations,
34:32
Speaker 1: but this church is considered an example of extreme indoctrinated religion.
34:36
Speaker 1: The followers, yes, are often dismissed as Mooney's Hans stepped
34:40
Speaker 1: into the leadership position of the church after Moon died.
34:44
Speaker 1: Through her status, she has become a billionaire. Here's a
34:48
Speaker 1: quote from a former member, Nasu Kang, from her nineteen
34:51
Speaker 1: ninety eight book In the Shadow of the Moons, My
34:53
Speaker 1: life in Reverend Sun Young Moon's family quote. Much has
34:57
Speaker 1: been written about the coercion and brainwashing that takes in
35:00
Speaker 1: the Unification Church. What I experienced was conditioning you are
35:03
Speaker 1: isolated among like minded people. You are bombarded with messages
35:07
Speaker 1: elevating obedience above critical thinking. Your belief system is reinforced
35:11
Speaker 1: at every turn. You become invested in those beliefs the
35:14
Speaker 1: longer you're associated with the church. After ten years, after
35:17
Speaker 1: twenty years, who would want to admit even to herself
35:19
Speaker 1: that her beliefs were built on sand? And I guess
35:24
Speaker 1: they own the Washington Times, this Unification Church, or they
35:27
Speaker 1: created it anyway. Some built up businesses business Empire in
35:32
Speaker 1: South Korea and Japan, and then funneled his attention into nonprofits,
35:36
Speaker 1: but only after he'd stacked their leadership with friends of his.
35:39
Speaker 1: He was very right leaning and had a strong relationship
35:42
Speaker 1: with the Republican Party in the United States. When Parents'
35:45
Speaker 1: Day was signed into law in nineteen ninety five in
35:47
Speaker 1: the US, some in the church took it as a
35:50
Speaker 1: sign of how closely their relationship was with the US government.
35:56
Speaker 2: So Pastor Jung Jen Sean Moon, one of their sons,
36:00
Speaker 2: is a huge mega and gun guy, and started his
36:03
Speaker 2: own church in twenty eighteen. He believes he's a rightful
36:07
Speaker 2: leader of the Unification Church, but he lost to his
36:10
Speaker 2: mother and his words. His father crowned him three times
36:13
Speaker 2: as the era of parent, but Hawk was under the
36:15
Speaker 2: impression she was meant to take over. And here's a
36:18
Speaker 2: quote from Tess Owen over Advice about a festival his
36:20
Speaker 2: church held in twenty nineteen.
36:22
Speaker 1: Quote.
36:23
Speaker 2: The festival held a safe space play area for kids
36:26
Speaker 2: with signs reading gun free zone and trigger warning. Parents
36:29
Speaker 2: laughed and snap pictures as their kids strangled pink unicorns
36:33
Speaker 2: and pummeled rag dolls. The MC of the event was
36:36
Speaker 2: Joey Gibson, the leader of the far right Patriot Prayer,
36:39
Speaker 2: who is currently facing felony charges for his involvement in
36:42
Speaker 2: the violent street brawl with Antifa in Portland, Oregon. There
36:47
Speaker 2: was even a seminar about the cissification of American men.
36:50
Speaker 1: I do remember that one.
36:51
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that's so special, so Sean said about his mom.
36:56
Speaker 2: She was taking the position of what was described in
36:58
Speaker 2: the Bible as the Harley of Babylon position. That doesn't
37:02
Speaker 2: mean I se you as a prostitute.
37:04
Speaker 1: Okay, I love, I love so nice quick correction of
37:08
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean I see you as a prostitut. I'm
37:10
Speaker 1: just saying, just say it. I'm just saying, we do
37:14
Speaker 1: have some more examples for you listeners, but first we
37:16
Speaker 1: have one more kick for word from our sponsor, and
37:32
Speaker 1: we're back. Thank you sponsor, and we're back with Sylvia Mares.
37:37
Speaker 1: In the early twenty tens, Sylvia Mares was the high
37:40
Speaker 1: priestess of a cult trying to get in the good
37:42
Speaker 1: word with a saint not recognized by the Roman Catholic Church,
37:46
Speaker 1: Santa Muerte, our Holy Death. This saint is often depicted
37:49
Speaker 1: as a skeletal grim reaper, sometimes described as the patron
37:53
Speaker 1: saint of serial killers, and Mara's devoutly believed. There's not
37:59
Speaker 1: too much out there on her, but what we do
38:02
Speaker 1: know is she killed a friend of hers with an
38:04
Speaker 1: ax in two thousand and nine. One of the followers,
38:07
Speaker 1: ten year old family members was the next. Most of
38:10
Speaker 1: the members of this cult were family members of Silvia's
38:14
Speaker 1: and then the members would slit open the veins of
38:17
Speaker 1: victims while they were still alive and drain their blood
38:20
Speaker 1: into containers, and they would spread the blood on an
38:22
Speaker 1: altar to Santamuerte, believing it would bring them good fortune.
38:27
Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, Maris was sentenced to life in prison.
38:31
Speaker 1: It's estimated two million people follow Santa Muerte in Mexico,
38:36
Speaker 1: where the following of Santemirte is believed to have originated.
38:39
Speaker 1: Santa Marte was added to Mexico's list of registered religions
38:42
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three. So there's a lot of
38:44
Speaker 1: back and forth about the cult status of the Santa
38:47
Speaker 1: Marite following, and this is very specific to this woman
38:52
Speaker 1: and her family for the most part in general.
38:54
Speaker 2: So earlier in twenty twenty one, Anne Elizabeth Young or
38:58
Speaker 2: mother Anna of Copcam, Georgia, so in our Neck of
39:01
Speaker 2: the Woods, was sentenced to thirty years in prison in Florida.
39:05
Speaker 2: Young ran a cult in the eighties and was charged
39:07
Speaker 2: for second degree murder for a two year olds after
39:10
Speaker 2: her mother gave him to the cult. He was left
39:12
Speaker 2: in the closet without food and water, where he eventually died.
39:15
Speaker 2: Young pled guilty to the fatal seizures of a two
39:17
Speaker 2: year old girl caused by withholding her medication.
39:20
Speaker 1: So sad.
39:21
Speaker 2: Young owned four acres of land in Florida for the
39:24
Speaker 2: House of the Prayer of the People, a so called
39:26
Speaker 2: religious boarding school, and a place nicknamed the Town that
39:30
Speaker 2: Time Forgot. Members wore roves and headcoverings, and the belief
39:34
Speaker 2: system was a mixture of Old Testament ideologies and collectivism.
39:38
Speaker 2: Young was controlling and obviously abusive, and when a seven
39:43
Speaker 2: year old boy stole a piece of candy, she deemed
39:45
Speaker 2: he should be punished with thirty three lashes in reference
39:47
Speaker 2: to Jesus' age when he died on the cross. And
39:50
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety two, the police investigated the group after
39:53
Speaker 2: Young publicly bathed a twelve year old girl in the chemicals,
39:56
Speaker 2: causing serious burns as she spent several months in a
40:00
Speaker 2: severe burne unit. Anna's daughter Joy was one of the
40:03
Speaker 2: key people to bring her down, testifying against her after
40:06
Speaker 2: an argument about how Joy was caring for our children
40:09
Speaker 2: led to Joyce seeking justice for the children had died
40:11
Speaker 2: under her mother's care.
40:12
Speaker 1: And we thought we would wrap up this part one
40:15
Speaker 1: with the inspiration for this episode. A news item that
40:18
Speaker 1: Samantha saw and brought to my attention. Recently, a man
40:22
Speaker 1: in Colorado alerted the police that he'd found a mummified
40:25
Speaker 1: body at quote some type of shrine. The body was
40:28
Speaker 1: in case in a sleeping bag and Christmas lights, glitter, makeup,
40:31
Speaker 1: circled eye sockets that appeared to be empty. The man
40:34
Speaker 1: who brought this to the attention of the police. Was
40:36
Speaker 1: a follower of Love Has Won, a religious group often
40:39
Speaker 1: described as a cult led by Amy Carlson or Amy
40:44
Speaker 1: Carlson or the quote Mother God. Her body was believed
40:48
Speaker 1: to be transported from California to Colorado. Seven members of
40:52
Speaker 1: Love Has Won were charged with abuse of a corpse
40:55
Speaker 1: and child abuse. Recent reports suggests no foul play, that
40:58
Speaker 1: she was in poor health and drink a lot. Many
41:01
Speaker 1: followers believe that she had quote ascended. She herself claims
41:05
Speaker 1: that when she died, she would ascend to the fifth dimension.
41:08
Speaker 1: Carlson founded Love Has Won around two thousand and six,
41:11
Speaker 1: leaving behind her children to do so. She called it
41:13
Speaker 1: a quote spiritual organization, and it was heavily informed by
41:17
Speaker 1: New Age movements and ideas. The group offered items like
41:20
Speaker 1: medicinal supplements and colloidal silver alongside sessions promising spiritual ascension.
41:26
Speaker 1: At the head of it all was Carlson, who assured
41:29
Speaker 1: she could talk with angels, that she could cure cancer,
41:32
Speaker 1: she could usher loved ones to other dimensions, or have
41:35
Speaker 1: a great awakening for lost loved ones. Before the official
41:39
Speaker 1: website went down, Carlson asserted on it that her past
41:42
Speaker 1: lives included Marilyn Monroe and Jesus Christ, and that she
41:45
Speaker 1: was on her quote five hundred and thirty fourth reincarnation
41:48
Speaker 1: in my quest to recover my beloved planet. The cult
41:51
Speaker 1: was very active online and that's one of the ways
41:54
Speaker 1: that they targeted new followers. She lived with local followers
41:59
Speaker 1: and one big house, but estimates put membership at thousands
42:02
Speaker 1: when counting online members. Carlson engaged in several of the
42:05
Speaker 1: abusive methods of control we've mentioned, and allegedly only let
42:09
Speaker 1: members sleep four hours a day. There's also not too
42:12
Speaker 1: much out there about this one, but some said that
42:15
Speaker 1: the group made headlines recently when fourteen followers, including Carlson,
42:18
Speaker 1: refused to adhere to MASK guidelines in Hawaii and appropriated
42:22
Speaker 1: the culture, with Carlson claiming she was the Hawaiian Goddess
42:25
Speaker 1: of fire, and police escorted them off the island. As
42:30
Speaker 1: of this recording, officials are still waiting for the toxicology
42:33
Speaker 1: report on her and to positively id the body, so
42:36
Speaker 1: this is all ongoing right now. Her family claims that
42:39
Speaker 1: towards the end, she was being brainwashed by her own
42:42
Speaker 1: cult and other members of it.
42:44
Speaker 2: Right, and I believe Vice has a documentary that they
42:48
Speaker 2: did of the cult a while back, so it's interesting
42:51
Speaker 2: to see if you want to watch any of that.
42:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, like we said, almost all of these have something
42:56
Speaker 1: like a documentary or podcast out there. And not to
43:01
Speaker 1: hammer this point home, but I think it's worth hammering
43:04
Speaker 1: home that people still argue about whether or not all
43:07
Speaker 1: of these constitutors cults and what why we label things
43:10
Speaker 1: as cults, and so I know we were using cult
43:13
Speaker 1: kind of interchangeably throughout, but just very very aware and
43:16
Speaker 1: acknowledge that that is it's a ongoing conversation. Well, in
43:20
Speaker 1: the meantime, this was only part one, and we have
43:23
Speaker 1: some more for you in part two, so keep an
43:26
Speaker 1: eye out for that. In the meantime, if you would
43:29
Speaker 1: like to contact us, you can. You can email us
43:32
Speaker 1: atuff Medium, mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com, or you
43:34
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. You
43:36
Speaker 1: can also find us on Instagram at Stuff I've Never
43:39
Speaker 1: Told You. Thanks. It's always to our super producer Christina,
43:42
Speaker 1: thank you, and thanks to you for listening. Stuff I
43:44
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43:50
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