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Top Position Battles to Watch in Training Camp - Cleveland Browns Podcast for 7/4/26 · The Dawgs - A Cleveland Browns Podcast

0:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in our blood, it's in our bones Orange and brown, yeah, we ride for our own Like a dog, peg runnin' We ain't a long game, big cums Get ready for the show It's our call, it's our walk, it's our song We stand tall, yeah, we've been here all alone Through it all the dog, pounds, then it's strong We all, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
0:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we all dogs welcome to the dogs podcast with your hopes Blake Reneker just in Charles, Kenny Mack and John Shaw
0:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, what's up, Browns fans?
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to another episode of The Dogs Podcast, Joshua, and Kenny Mack coming to you guys today.
0:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go, baby.
0:44
[SPEAKER_01]: We have got a fun topic planned for you guys here in this episode.
0:48
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be talking about training camp battles that we're looking at specifically in that we want to highlight ahead of training camp kicking off here later.
0:57
[SPEAKER_01]: This month because it's now July and we're recording this on July 1st, you're probably seeing it a little bit later in the week, but either way, we are into July and the countdown is on to training camp.
1:08
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the Browns came out last week and announced when the players had to report, rookies have to come in on July 23rd and the veterans and everybody else report on July 28th.
1:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they also release their training camp dates open to the public.
1:24
[SPEAKER_01]: If anybody missed that, so real quick, I'll just go through it.
1:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've got, what is it?
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Nine practices starting on Friday, July 31st, running through Wednesday, August 12th, all practices are at one 30, gates open at 12 30.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the tickets go on, say, or I mean, they're available on July 15th, Wednesday, July 15th at 10 a.m. And if you're a season ticket holder,
1:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You get a 24 hour advanced window starting on the 14th.
1:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So there you go.
1:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's coming to training camp?
1:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're going to try to be up there.
1:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we're able to make it to a session or two, we'll make sure to let you guys know.
2:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm disappointed, it's my first year, probably in five years, I won't be going, it's my schedule doesn't line up and the stuff I do with the Browns backers worldwide.
2:09
[SPEAKER_03]: We're actually going to go to the Buffalo Preseason game this year instead of going to training camp.
2:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm definitely looking forward to that and I think some of our dogs and our dog pack are going as well.
2:20
[SPEAKER_03]: So, excuse me, I'm pumped to see those guys, but yeah, a little disappointed won't be a training camp this year.
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a bummer for sure.
2:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, you just mentioned the dog pack.
2:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm a little drop it real quick.
2:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to join the dogs.com right now.
2:32
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys want to join our dog pack community, awesome, just fantastic online Browns fan community.
2:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And right now, fantasy football registrations are going on.
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to play fantasy with us this season, which I highly recommend, it's a ton of fun.
2:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Those fantasy leagues get in now register for that.
2:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you can get access to the private discord channel, hang out with everybody in there.
2:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're actually going up to the home opener on September 27th against the Panthers.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And several of the dog pack members are going to join us with the Tuscarole County Browns Backers Group to hold the flag for the National Anthem and watch that game afterward it's going to be.
3:11
[SPEAKER_01]: a really fun day.
3:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So really looking forward to that.
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So get in now join the dogs dot com coming out with everybody.
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: That sounds like a blast man.
3:18
[SPEAKER_03]: And one thing you guys, it is the dog days of summer and it's the dog days of just talking about football.
3:24
[SPEAKER_03]: So when you get into that dog pack, there's a ton of things we talk about fantasy.
3:29
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a for
3:30
[SPEAKER_03]: or fancy football, I should say meet up, sports cards, smoke house, like actually barbecuing, guys take pictures of that stuff.
3:37
[SPEAKER_03]: We talk about our beers and a whole bunch of their stuff.
3:39
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's much, much more than just football going on there.
3:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So give it a try and I think you'll have a good time.
3:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
3:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move over here to the topic for today, Kenney.
3:49
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about these training camp battles, and obviously with the Browns being such a young team, and having really large roster turnover heading into this season.
3:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the percentage is exactly, but, you know, like Blake said, the other night on the live show.
4:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Do we have anybody that's been on this offense?
4:07
[SPEAKER_01]: At least on the offensive side of the ball.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: outside of Deshawn, Watson, Jerry, Judy, who's been here for more than two seasons?
4:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a tough call, man.
4:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Not too many, not too many.
4:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So the veterans that we do have, we probably should keep in for some kind of consistency, but yeah, we definitely need some guys to develop and get on this starting offense, man.
4:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and a lot of the guys who
4:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, they have been here for more than a year or two.
4:35
[SPEAKER_01]: They're the depth pieces on the offensive line, which we're going to kick things off with talking about position battles on the offensive lines.
4:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Kenny, why don't you start us off with the one position battle that you want to highlight today?
4:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it's the biggest one.
4:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's right, guards.
4:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's take a look at it.
4:54
[SPEAKER_03]: It's one of the more interesting ones.
4:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it's kind of under the radar with the way that I'm going to approach it.
4:59
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, everyone says there's a huge gaping hole there.
5:04
[SPEAKER_03]: One thing I think we do have is we've got options.
5:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, Monkin, he's always looking for the best five offensive linemen.
5:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And
5:14
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we've seen some guys get some meaningful snaps already and if you guys were taking a look at mini camp, there's three guys that specifically got snaps number one is Kevin Jenkins, probably the incumbent KT 11ston actually got man as some reps there.
5:30
[SPEAKER_03]: He's our surprise candidate and then
5:33
[SPEAKER_03]: The other Jenkins, Elgerton, he's could possibly be a right guard if the cards kind of fall right and I'll I'll let you get into that.
5:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll concentrate on the other two guys, okay, okay, okay, and KT I know you guys are kind of got your job.
5:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Jaws are kind of dropping because you're like, oh,
5:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, KT, T's for turn style, man, because that's what he was last year, man.
5:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And, but those guys, I mean, like, Tevin was a second rounder out of Oklahoma, 86, 66, he's 321, and KT, while he's 64, he's 335 pounds, man.
6:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know he's a tackle and we'll get into that, but they basically have the same arm length, the same hand size.
6:17
[SPEAKER_03]: But,
6:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Haiti is two years younger and, you know, if you take a look at their draft profile, Kevin Jenkins, he's got violent hands.
6:25
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got an excellent run blocker finishes his blocks and a fellow caliber athleticism overall movement skills are excellent for being 320 pounds.
6:36
[SPEAKER_03]: The guy again was a right tackle.
6:40
[SPEAKER_03]: for Oklahoma State and he transitioned into a run blocking guard and he was pretty good.
6:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Especially with his time in the with a bear's.
6:50
[SPEAKER_03]: KT, we don't have as much on him.
6:53
[SPEAKER_03]: He did play both tackle positions last year.
6:56
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got a massive lower body, excellent anchor, long arms, heavy hands, exact position flexibility because of moving back and forth.
7:04
[SPEAKER_03]: So it could be possible swing tackle.
7:10
[SPEAKER_03]: and scouts viewed him now get this they viewed him as a developmental offensive lineman but he might eventually be better inside at guard and that was in Wikipedia where I found that.
7:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So who is naturally built to play guard out of these two guys?
7:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they both are like if you take a look at Jenkins, his game is based on explosive power leverage and he's got a nasty demeanor which is why he excels in the run game.
7:38
[SPEAKER_03]: and he moves guys in the run game.
7:40
[SPEAKER_03]: His best grades are run grade grades, but he did allow zero sacks if you take a look at PFF.
7:50
[SPEAKER_03]: So check out his grades there, but KT himself, while I made a joke that he's a turn-style, this guy is ideal,
7:59
[SPEAKER_03]: has ideal guard height, he's 64, that 335 pounds, you can't argue with that, you want a guy that can mall people and run people over, he's thick through the hips, which is great for a guard and we'll get a little bit more into that.
8:16
[SPEAKER_03]: What I found, so like moving a guy from tackle the guard is a little bit more easier.
8:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess when you transition in the NFL, we've talked about even this year.
8:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Like how many times Josh did we say like once we got into the later rounds, you're looking at a tackle, he played for whatever college and you're like, this guy is like a bit of a better guard, right?
8:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So, yep.
8:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's what I found on draft buzz.
8:42
[SPEAKER_03]: So the first strength in the run game, Lemmingston plays with a mean streak, does a nice job of the initial push at the point of attack.
8:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, sounds like a guard doesn't it?
8:51
[SPEAKER_03]: You want a great vertical movement, displace defensive back or defensive tackles, and you want to win leverage battles.
8:58
[SPEAKER_03]: The next one, solid positional run blocker who flashes a nasty demeanor and killer instinct cuts out scouts.
9:05
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a five star guard trait, guys.
9:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Think about Joel Botonio, but think about why it teller.
9:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, that's what he was.
9:13
[SPEAKER_03]: You want a nasty demeanor and interior offensive line coaches, love players who finish blocks.
9:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Number three, shows excellent awareness against twists and stunts.
9:25
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a huge trade again for a guard.
9:27
[SPEAKER_03]: It jumps off the page for me.
9:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Guys who recognize stunts, help the center out, communicate protections.
9:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are ideal things for a guard.
9:36
[SPEAKER_03]: KT's next number four, strong flexible core, wide base to catch and handle moving defenders.
9:43
[SPEAKER_03]: That screams guard also, they got to deal with bull rushes power, cross chops, forklift moves, all that kind of stuff is our important traits for guards.
9:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Now here's another one fires off the snap quickly guys think about pulling climbing to the next level executing double teams got to shade the nose tackle those are all important features for a guard shows flexibility to get out and seal reach blocks again we want to run a zone scheme outside zone split zone pin and pole counters those are all things that
10:18
[SPEAKER_03]: are important for a guard and I hope like this sounds pretty encouraging all these strengths that he has, right, for him to become a guard and then this might be the biggest clue.
10:29
[SPEAKER_03]: This was one of his strengths.
10:31
[SPEAKER_03]: He's best and then phone booth space.
10:34
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what guards do.
10:36
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't have to block elite Eddrasures.
10:40
[SPEAKER_03]: They basically play with three feet around them, and that's it.
10:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think based on the tape, I think that's what we saw because once elite pastrusters got to him, he was that turn style.
10:52
[SPEAKER_03]: He also does a very nice job at the second level.
10:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So every online coach, they want to combo blocks, they want on the climb, adjusting space.
11:01
[SPEAKER_03]: His functional strength is the next thing that holds up well against ball rushes.
11:05
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what defensive tackles do, and if he's good at that, put him in that space.
11:10
[SPEAKER_03]: exceptionally quick in precise hands.
11:13
[SPEAKER_03]: That's good for any linemen on the line of scrimmage.
11:16
[SPEAKER_03]: So anything that we saw from him at tackle his elite, uh, sorry, his feet, his lateral quickness, his mirability, recovery, athleticism, it was all kind of like, uh, I'm not too sure.
11:31
[SPEAKER_03]: So why not move him to right guard?
11:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's why the Browns put him there in many camp.
11:39
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, he could be a long-term ceiling guy.
11:44
[SPEAKER_03]: and maybe a little bit better than Jenkins with the right coaching.
11:48
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think we have that right coach in George Warhop.
11:51
[SPEAKER_03]: So my biggest take away, if you're gonna have a battle, I mean, Jenkins, he seems to be the incumbent, right?
11:59
[SPEAKER_03]: He's polished, he's athletic, he's got the movement skills, he's got proven NFL production, whereas like Levingston, he's more of a prototypical
12:10
[SPEAKER_03]: guard at this point because he doesn't have the experience.
12:14
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think the guy, based on the scouting traits that I gave you, I think he has the ideal traits to play in the interiors.
12:26
[SPEAKER_03]: That the power has got the leverage.
12:27
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got the anchor awareness.
12:30
[SPEAKER_03]: And he succeeds in phone booth space.
12:34
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think,
12:36
[SPEAKER_03]: George Warhop, who has a history of making Lyman work out, I think this works out for the Browns based on George Warhop being the technician that he is giving him the right techniques to thrive in that position.
12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, at KT Leviston, we've talked about this a little bit in prior episodes.
12:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Jake Burns from Browns Film Breakdown has been.
13:00
[SPEAKER_01]: on this.
13:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I think since maybe even during the year last year talking about KT Leviston needs to move inside to guard.
13:07
[SPEAKER_01]: He's he's not cut out for the tackle position and and you laid out perfectly why he would be better fit for a guard spot than a tackle and you know from what Jake has seen on film from KT Leviston he feels confident that the guy can play guard.
13:23
[SPEAKER_01]: like it's not gonna be the same story that we saw with him on the outside at Tackle, which was like you said turn style, it was terrible.
13:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so yeah, this, this,
13:35
[SPEAKER_01]: This position battle is going to be very interesting to watch.
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Browns flipped to 2028, seventh, brown pick last year before the season to the Rams after that preseason game, the third preseason game, if you guys remember, to get KT Levista after what they saw from him during that game.
13:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So, well, we'll take a flyer on this guy.
13:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, low and behold, ends up being our freaking starter, most of the season due to injuries and everything else that we always seem to have.
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, depth on this line and versatility, flexibility, it's going to be very important.
14:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
14:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely, man.
14:07
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to, you know, tell Jake Burns.
14:09
[SPEAKER_03]: He's wrong.
14:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And I've obviously agree with him.
14:11
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got some great points.
14:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And I also do see that where he is.
14:17
[SPEAKER_03]: He just needs the experience.
14:19
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, when I'm looking at training camp, I'm going to be looking at like who's he going against, is it Mason Graham all the time.
14:26
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, houses double team work is is he in there and is he pulling?
14:31
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, what is he in the goal line situations?
14:33
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a big
14:34
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so let's see what this guy can accomplish over the next couple of weeks and let's see what shakes out with the Browns offensive line
14:46
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16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, and that kicks right over into the position battle.
16:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to highlight first, and that is obviously the center position.
16:33
[SPEAKER_01]: All of this revolves around the one name that you threw out there a little bit of going that's Elkton Jenkins, the free agent we signed up from Green Bay last year.
16:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
16:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Jenkins is very versatile.
16:43
[SPEAKER_01]: He's spent time at left tackle for the Packers left guard.
16:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe center.
16:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So the whole thing is Todd Muckin is said, we got four of the five starters figured out.
16:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously you've got Spencer Fano at left tackle, Zion Johnson, most likely left guard.
16:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Titus Howard is your right tackle.
17:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Elkton Jenkins is your fourth starter, but we don't know where.
17:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Center right guard.
17:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all going to hinge on these position battle.
17:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Now let's talk about center and just like great guard, this one is very important as well because the center position you're responsible for setting protections, making line calls, and not to mention whoever's there is going to be anchoring and entirely rebuilt offensive line that's never played together before.
17:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Lot of pressure, lot of responsibility on this position.
17:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you got to handle powerful interior defensive linemen.
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to reach linebackers in the run game.
17:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Really, it's going to get avoid a lot of mental mistakes at the center spot.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: One missed assignment at center could ruin an entire play.
17:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think for most people, Elkton Jenkins seems to be penciled in.
17:53
[SPEAKER_01]: As you're starting center, I think that's what a lot of people assume is going to happen.
17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But if one of these other two guys here that I'm going to talk about can prove that they're capable of starting at that spot, then Elk to Jakeins becomes pretty much your auto start at right guard, because he's better than both the guys that you detailed fighting for that spot, Kevin Jenkins and Katie Leviston.
18:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So, or are I guess even left guard if they would decide to move Zion Johnson over to right guard, but I haven't seen any indication that they're thinking about doing that.
18:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't believe they've practiced him at right guard at all, but maybe I've
18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: These two guys are going to factor into this decision.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: In the first one, let's start with the veteran, Luke Whippler, former six round pick out of Ohio State back in 2023.
18:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Luke Whippler has things working in his favor in this position, about one of them is, he's got experience at the NFL level.
18:44
[SPEAKER_01]: This is gonna be his fourth season.
18:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the final year on his rookie deal with the Browns.
18:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So, he could have that extra motivation this year to go out and earn that next pay day.
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We see that all the time from guys on their final season on their contract.
18:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, it's his fourth season of preparation.
18:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's his third of full prep with the team.
19:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, he's been here done that type of thing.
19:06
[SPEAKER_01]: He already understands the terminology, communication responsibilities of the center position at the NFL.
19:11
[SPEAKER_01]: He's already been in the NFL.
19:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait room for multiple seasons, added more functional strength since he entered out of college.
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's been practicing against NFL defensive tackle.
19:22
[SPEAKER_01]: every day for years that least when he's healthy, which goes right into my things working against Luke Whiplier in this battle.
19:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though he spent more time in the NFL, he's been hampered by injuries every season.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: That has caused him valuable developmental time and key opportunities during this rookie contract.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: He started the week finale.
19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys remember back in 2023
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Helled his own did pretty well, but that's all we've ever really seen.
19:52
[SPEAKER_01]: He broke his ankle in the preseason.
19:54
[SPEAKER_01]: The following summer.
19:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So he missed all of 2024 on IR.
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He was healthy all of last season and 2025 until the finale against again, the bangles got carted off with a knee injury.
20:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's been recovering from that knee injury this entire off season.
20:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think he missed a good bit of OTAs to begin with, but then we got the reports that he was on the field.
20:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I think maybe the last week or two of the Spring program.
20:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But...
20:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's he battling against for this spot?
20:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's Parker Brailsford, rookie out of Alabama, Brown took him in the fifth round.
20:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Parker Brailsford has the higher upside of these two.
20:36
[SPEAKER_01]: He's entered the NFL's one of the most technically refined centers in college football.
20:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody during the pre-draft process loved his
20:45
[SPEAKER_01]: development who he was as a center ready to go into the pros out of college.
20:51
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been frequently praised for diagnosing fronts identifying blitzes a very strong processor at the position and
20:59
[SPEAKER_01]: from OTAs in many camp.
21:00
[SPEAKER_01]: He's already getting first team reps.
21:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's important to note here.
21:05
[SPEAKER_01]: The Browns gave him some meaningful opportunities during the OTAs in many camp, which says they're serious about seeing if he can step in and handle that job as a rookie.
21:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think he's got a little bit of a leg up.
21:18
[SPEAKER_01]: over the veteran whiplier now against Brailsford, like I said, still rookie, still learning, making the adjustment that the transition from college to NFL, which we know is not the same game.
21:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's got a lot of learning curve to conquer here.
21:36
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got to continue to build up his NFL strength to go against these big pro defensive tackles.
21:44
[SPEAKER_01]: and he has not handled or had to deal with the complexity of NFL defensive schemes, disguises, fronts, all that kind of stuff.
21:52
[SPEAKER_01]: But he definitely has the athleticism edge over Luke Whippler.
21:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think,
21:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Brailsford could be a guy that surprises us and takes the reins of a starting spot for this line.
22:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, that would move Elkton Jenkins over to right guard.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But even if he doesn't, I think he'll, I think that Brailsford takes at least the backup center spot.
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But how do you feel about center and those two guys?
22:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, when we, when we drafted Brails for, I was like, what are we doing?
22:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I, I basically just took a look at his measurables.
22:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, man, he's small.
22:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, are we trying to make him a full back?
22:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I just didn't get it.
22:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And then just reading through different,
22:34
[SPEAKER_03]: scouting analysis.
22:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Somebody basically said and compared him to Kelsey, Jason Kelsey, and it was the size specifically.
22:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, well, I mean, I compared their draft profiles and I was like, you know, what, maybe there's something.
22:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And then as I did more reading on this guy, I just discarded the fact that he was a smaller center.
22:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, holding up in the SEC for as long as he did in getting those meaningful snaps there, I think says a lot about.
23:06
[SPEAKER_03]: him as a rookie coming into the Browns and just because you're smaller technique goes a long way.
23:14
[SPEAKER_03]: You have a guy in George Warhop that is a technician teacher.
23:19
[SPEAKER_03]: He teaches you how to play offensive line and I think that's going to be vital.
23:23
[SPEAKER_03]: The other thing is is when you get into centers, we do know that there is a success rate that they do get drafted lower and there's a
23:35
[SPEAKER_03]: that says athletic is he is and he can pull that goes huge in his own schemes that is huge and that's something that really took away from all the reading I did up on this guy.
23:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I mean, speaking of the size, I know people were comparing him and being at more under size center, comparing him to Tyler Lindervom, who that's the other one.
23:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Toshmark in.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: George Warholp, they have the experience, obviously, coaching up that guy to being a pro bowler in the highest paid center now or whatever, and NFL history.
24:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not saying that he will be either those guys.
24:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm also not saying he can't be.
24:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's a very cool opportunity that we get to watch play out here over the summer.
24:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, and those are great comparisons, especially when you have coaches that have seen these attributes that maybe aren't as appealing to us as fans, work out in the NFL, and then hopefully they can make that translate in his own way and Braille's first own way into the NFL.
24:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Definitely know that they can call a scheme that I'll take advantage of what he has.
24:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
24:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So that kind of wraps up everything with the O-Line.
24:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess one last quick note obviously you're going to have a position battle between to one Jones kind of in the same light as Luke Whippler going into his fourth and final season on his rookie deal, same draft class, same school Ohio State, same story dealt with injuries except to one Jones has happened to actually had more opportunity starting on the line over the years than Whippler has had, but can't stay healthy.
25:08
[SPEAKER_01]: didn't hold up super well on the left side of the line and he'll be battling for the back up swing tackle spot alongside Austin Barber another rookie the third rounder that the Browns traded up for out of Florida.
25:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's another one.
25:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have notes or anything just want to make sure I threw that out there.
25:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's interesting.
25:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We talk about guard in these position battles.
25:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Not once did we mention former third round picksack's enter.
25:32
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, I just don't think he has it, but I'm glad you pointed out those swing tackles because we do have Barbara, we do have DeWan Jones, that was one of the other reasons why I'm like, well, we invested capital regardless of its seventh and lower in anybody's opinion, so we invested something into KT, he's got to go somewhere and that if Jake Burns is you know, clamoring to get him at guard, I noticed that he should be a guard, you know, that's maybe where he'll be.
26:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let's kick it over now.
26:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got a second position battle.
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You went to highlight, want to break that one down for us.
26:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, running back guys.
26:08
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's not that we know the incumbents, right?
26:11
[SPEAKER_03]: It's Quintion Jenkins.
26:12
[SPEAKER_03]: He looks great in training camp.
26:14
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a day on Samson.
26:15
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he's going to have a better time with Munkton as it calling the plays.
26:21
[SPEAKER_03]: But what's going to happen after that?
26:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been a big guy for Rocket Sanders, where he and Sanders.
26:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And I will tell you he's probably the most highly regarded of the rest of the guys.
26:32
[SPEAKER_03]: However, I keep hearing things about Amani Marshall.
26:35
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
26:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, do you hear much about him?
26:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I like a money marshal.
26:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that he's got a nice skill set.
26:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll let you go through your notes and everything, but I will say I know last year during training camp and everything he popped off the tape and had some thing and preseason look kind of nice and then, you know, hands up on the practice squad.
26:54
[SPEAKER_01]: We kind of see this from running backs.
26:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the guy, the kid we interviewed a couple of years ago.
27:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Eight in robins.
27:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Eight in robins.
27:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that nice training camp and and preseason then got cut So I'll let you break down this battle between rocket and a money
27:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I'm glad that you said it the way you said it because last year what stood out in my mind is Matt Wilson from dogs by nature.
27:18
[SPEAKER_03]: He said, Amani Marshall was a standout, and he was a standout in the passing game.
27:24
[SPEAKER_03]: He's been great catching the ball over the backfield, but he's great catching the ball like on a whole bunch of route combos, right?
27:30
[SPEAKER_03]: That actually eventually got picked up by sports illustrated.
27:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And now I'm kind of hearing the same thing between CBD and some of the local beat reporters.
27:37
[SPEAKER_03]: So Reen Sanders, I think he does enter as the favorite, but Marshall has a skill set, maybe to make it a closer competition.
27:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I get into this, you'll kind of see how the skill sets are kind of different, right?
27:51
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're kind of almost the same guy, like they're about six feet, they're about 225, 235,
27:59
[SPEAKER_03]: One thing where Hayme Sanders, he just has better stats overall, like college-wise, but we don't really care.
28:05
[SPEAKER_03]: What have you done for me lately?
28:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Whereas, like Marshall, he's got more of, he's got a little bit more of a vertical, a little bit more of a broad jump, so he's just a little bit more explosive.
28:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you take a look at their draft profiles and I'm taking a look at that because they haven't been in the league long.
28:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Marshall, he runs behind his pads.
28:24
[SPEAKER_03]: He's excellent contact balance, finisher, he's reliable past protector, good on special teams, lots of special teams value, and he's got one cut style, which is great for the kind of
28:39
[SPEAKER_03]: often, so we run, excuse me, and what I'll get into though, I'll just get into Raheem Strang, Raheem Sanders strengths and no weaknesses.
28:49
[SPEAKER_03]: So big play speed, excellent vision on vision on the outside runs, soft hands, natural receiving ability, that can score from anywhere on the field and he's dangerous in space.
29:00
[SPEAKER_03]: But now listen to this, listen to his weaknesses.
29:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, runs upright at times.
29:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, a money runs with a load of the ground.
29:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Doesn't always finish his runs physically.
29:13
[SPEAKER_03]: The other guys, a physical runner, ball security, and has been inconsistent.
29:17
[SPEAKER_03]: The other guy doesn't fumble.
29:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Can be inconsistent in past protection and one thing that I didn't mention is that Marshall is a pretty good past protector, but
29:28
[SPEAKER_03]: getting back to Sanders, the blend of size and speed make him super intriguing.
29:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And he was a very intriguing prospect.
29:34
[SPEAKER_03]: You and I highlighted him several times.
29:36
[SPEAKER_03]: The previous year, as somebody that the Browns should draft and they eventually get him.
29:41
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you take a look at the tape, obviously Sanders is an explosive runner.
29:45
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm kind of excited to see what we can see in him in the pre-season because I didn't watch the Charger's Games last year, and I didn't watch much of his highlights.
29:57
[SPEAKER_03]: didn't want to see him go.
29:59
[SPEAKER_03]: We did, though, get to see Marshall.
30:02
[SPEAKER_03]: And do you remember him?
30:03
[SPEAKER_03]: He was exactly what I said that Sanders' weaknesses were.
30:09
[SPEAKER_03]: He was running behind his clients.
30:11
[SPEAKER_03]: He finished every fricking carry.
30:13
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he was always falling forward, protecting the ball, consistently falling forward.
30:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, he's a type of back that offensive coordinators trust in short yarded situations and that running back coaches love
30:29
[SPEAKER_03]: So, like, what kind of decision do you make here?
30:34
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want the guy that is like, the elite, kind of get the elite play, but this isn't really have anything else?
30:44
[SPEAKER_03]: All I can tell you is this, coaches like do Stanley, what's the things that he said that he really values?
30:52
[SPEAKER_03]: Ball security, pass protection, and finishing runs.
30:56
[SPEAKER_03]: that sounds to me more like the strengths that I gave you for Marshall, right?
31:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
31:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And the counterpoint, I mean, obviously would be the fact that Sanders is
31:08
[SPEAKER_03]: He sounds good, like the competition that he would face.
31:11
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got NFL experience.
31:13
[SPEAKER_03]: He played some snaps last year.
31:14
[SPEAKER_03]: He's just far more explosive.
31:17
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think it matters that you have a core writing back.
31:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Where if injury happens, which we don't want, but it did last year, that you have somebody that's a special team's contributor, short yardage option, and someone who can play meaningful snaps in all 17 games.
31:32
[SPEAKER_03]: So which one of these guys do you want?
31:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Raheem Sanders with his resume.
31:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I think ultimately it's gonna be tight, but I think he might edge out still.
31:44
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got the size, he's got the speed, he's got the receiving ability.
31:48
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's just something about Marshall where I'm like, if you're gonna keep for running back some, one of them's gonna be a fullback.
31:55
[SPEAKER_03]: You have basically junk in, Samson.
31:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's say there's number three, we're not gonna name them yet.
32:01
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you have your full back, John Burton, right?
32:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Because like, do you see us carrying five?
32:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure.
32:07
[SPEAKER_03]: So do you want somebody like Marshall that's just gonna finish plays off?
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we'll say, I think that there's going to be a more dedicated focus to the running back position because this team wants to run the ball.
32:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of people look at Todd Munkin's history as an offensive coordinator.
32:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So, well, he likes to go the air raid route, you know, throw the ball down, feel it all that kind of stuff.
32:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And he does.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But,
32:35
[SPEAKER_01]: the way they've built this coaching staff, the way they've built this offense, it's to prioritize the run game 100%.
32:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you're going to need reliable runners to log significant snaps behind Judkins and Samson because you can't just rely on those two guys and overload them with work, especially coming off the injury.
32:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I know Judkins looks great and that's I'm thrilled about that.
32:58
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to just, hey, here's, here's 25 carries a game right off the bat.
33:04
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't do that.
33:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So you need somebody to offset that load.
33:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, for Raheem Sanders, he did get opportunities last year at 27 attempts toward the end of the season.
33:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever Judd can's got hurt, he put up 92 yards.
33:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It was good for, what was it, 3.4 a carry, which obviously isn't great.
33:20
[SPEAKER_01]: But nobody had a good yards per carry behind that offensive line last year.
33:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't take much into that.
33:24
[SPEAKER_01]: What I'm looking at,
33:26
[SPEAKER_01]: now his yards before contact for attempt and those games that he played was 1.2 right down there with that that's the same low league bottom number as Juddkins and Samson both had meaning they're getting hit pretty much as soon as they got the ball but his yards after contact for attempt was 2.2 yards that's the same as Quinshawn Juddkins had and it's actually top 15 in the league for last year.
33:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: They can hit this guy and he's still going to go forward.
33:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I was impressed when I saw where he Sanders run the ball last year, because I felt like he was pushing the pile forward as difficult as that was in our run game.
34:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm excited to see what he can do here over the summer for sure.
34:10
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, again, and that, that's some things that I did notice.
34:14
[SPEAKER_03]: It goes against what he was one of his weaknesses, but if that's the case, then he got better.
34:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Dooses doing something.
34:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think he's gonna do something with all four of these running backs.
34:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I like what I see.
34:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I like what I see out of Sanders, but I mean, again, I think Marshall did what he needed to do against the
34:37
[SPEAKER_03]: type of competition he played in the preseason, and now can he take the next step.
34:42
[SPEAKER_03]: And if he's as good or better in running all these route combinations, and he has special teams value, how do you make the choice, or you keep five running backs?
34:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't know if Michael Burton is exactly a lock.
34:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's not like he they paid him a contract that says you're definitely going to be a full back here.
35:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I will see what they decide to do and how they out all plays out.
35:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I'm walking him into the roster for sure.
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got like a money Marshall could definitely do what he did last year and be moved into the practice squad on roster cut downs and then get called up.
35:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like.
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: There's all kinds of options for them, but I will say, I remember reading the scout and report and some of the stuff about Raheem Sanders whenever we picked him up off Wavage's last year when the roster cut down's came out and the charges let him go.
35:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, okay, so I forget exactly what it said, the stuff that you laid out, but I remember watching him then in the game saying, he looks way better in some of these areas than what he was touted as being.
35:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was definitely impressed.
35:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it's a good point you brought up like I'm just assuming that we're going to carry a full back and keep that as a position based on, you know, the constant constant, all right, I guess constantly hearing monk and say he wants to be good and the goal line.
35:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So we need a full back.
36:00
[SPEAKER_03]: But maybe you say to Hudson, maybe it's, I think Winston read played full back for us for a bit, too, right?
36:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's maybe it's one of the tight ends.
36:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's going to hurt your soul.
36:08
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about these guys here in a minute.
36:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So if there's other options for, yes, I'm, I know they sign Michael Burton and that's probably just to give us more options to sort between whenever the final decisions come down.
36:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
36:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
36:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
36:24
[SPEAKER_01]: But all right.
36:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, guys, let us know what you think so far about these position battles and how you think is going to shake out between some of these guys the last one that I really want to go into detail about here is another backup position is going to be backup tight end.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe it backups the wrong word.
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more like tight into or tight end.
36:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know adjacent because you got Harold Fan and Junior obviously when you look at a
36:51
[SPEAKER_01]: but he's not your traditional Titan type of player.
36:55
[SPEAKER_01]: He's more of a, he's like a weapon one.
36:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, weapon one.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that description a lot because you can put him out wide, you can put him in a slot, you can motion him around the formation, you can put him in a backfield, inline, whatever you want to do, he can do it.
37:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have got to find more Titan options who can play inline, handle blocking duties, but still be, you know, weapons in the passing game.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think
37:21
[SPEAKER_01]: the collection of backup potential players that we have right now present good options in some of those areas, but nobody's really great in everything.
37:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll just break it down real quick.
37:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So number one, on my list here is Joe Royer, the rookie out of Cincinnati fifth round pick, the Browns took this year.
37:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, it was a six round pick.
37:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I can't remember either way.
37:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, no, I think it was fifth.
37:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, fifth.
37:47
[SPEAKER_01]: He of the guys that I'm going to talk about.
37:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the most accomplished receiver of this group.
37:52
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been touted.
37:53
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got the natural hands, the large catch radius.
37:55
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a big freaking dude.
37:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, he was a former Ohio State recruit.
37:59
[SPEAKER_01]: If you guys remember my break down on him, he went to Cincinnati.
38:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He ended up breaking Travis Kelsey single season tight in reception record at Cincinnati with 50 catches in 2024.
38:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, he's really good at finding the soft spots in zone coverage gives the offense another legitimate receiving threat if.
38:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Harold Fannon needs a breather or he's hurt or they just want to run two tight ends on a route and having both out there, making things happen, Joe Roy is probably your best bet.
38:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Now he is still developing as an inline blocker.
38:31
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got to work on that.
38:32
[SPEAKER_01]: There is development to be had there.
38:34
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got to prove that he can hold up against these bigger faster stronger NFL edge defenders.
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's going to have to contribute on special teams if he wants to really lock down that roster spot.
38:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, competing with him, you got another rookie.
38:48
[SPEAKER_01]: This was the final guy we took in the seventh round.
38:50
[SPEAKER_01]: This past draft, Carson Ryan.
38:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, he is the most well-rounded skill set of this group, most likely.
38:57
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a very physical blocker.
38:59
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got the athleticism that he can contribute as a receiver.
39:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's versatile enough to line up a touch like on the line in the backfield and the slot.
39:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's a little bit more flexible where you can run him.
39:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So he would probably be your better full-back option, Kenny.
39:14
[SPEAKER_01]: if he wanted to keep him and utilize him in multiple spots.
39:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And concerns about him, he definitely does not have Joe Royer's receiving upside.
39:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's not going to be as much of a pass game threat as Royer is.
39:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And another guy we're going to talk about here in a minute, he just doesn't have the NFL experience of a guy like Jack Stoll or Blake Whiteheart.
39:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's going to have to really show his consistency and improvement during camp.
39:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just mentioned Jack Stoll.
39:42
[SPEAKER_01]: We signed him as a free agent.
39:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's like a one-year minimum contract type thing.
39:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So he can easily be let go if he doesn't pan out during camp.
39:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's got the most NFL experience out of anybody on this group.
39:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Great blocker.
39:55
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where he excels.
39:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want somebody who can just stay on the field and block for you, it's probably Jack Stoll.
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He's reliable, very reliable, in the past protection game.
40:06
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got to obviously the experience so we understand that NFL defensive and the assignments that he's been given and he's a trusted veteran doesn't make a whole lot of mental mistakes.
40:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, limited very limited receiving production.
40:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have the stats pulled up, but I know it's like hardly anything throughout his NFL career.
40:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have a whole lot to offer as far as like an offensive ceiling as a weapon and I don't know.
40:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how that's going to build for him.
40:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Carvisa Robbs.
40:33
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a rollout to the flat sky, basically.
40:36
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's kind of what I get from here.
40:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Also to the flats, and then probably don't even throw it to him.
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah.
40:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So then there's a fourth guy here that we're going to talk about.
40:46
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Blake White Hard.
40:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, he's been here the last couple seasons, coming on and off the practice squat, things like that.
40:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Stahl, he's got NFL experience more.
40:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So then the rookie's obviously, he's got good size for Titan, good athleticism, reliable hands.
41:00
[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen him do it.
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: At times, he's shown flashes in the receiving game.
41:05
[SPEAKER_01]: There's never been anything real consistent about him.
41:08
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just kind of just been a guy that goes out there and can make something happen here and there.
41:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's never really established any consistency with that.
41:18
[SPEAKER_01]: He still doesn't, I don't think have the receiving upside as Joe Royer and he's not as good of a blocker as like a jack stall.
41:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's this position battle is going to be very interesting to me because again, I think my prediction would be Joe Royer ends up with that sort of tight end to title tag on him for the for the Browns coming out of training camp, but you could see a nod to the veterans with white harder stall.
41:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd probably put white heart over stall just because white heart has more receiving upside.
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think the Browns want to just lock into a blocking only type of player who doesn't really offer you much else because when he's on the field, you don't worry about him as a defensive, you know, coverage person, you're like, well, he's not worried about Jack's soul coming out here and making a play.
42:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're obviously running the ball or blocking over here.
42:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Carson Ryan to me is, it's kind of the wild card, man.
42:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see he's 7th round pick, minimal investment in him.
42:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Those guys typically don't make rosters.
42:19
[SPEAKER_01]: very often anyhow he could be part of roster cut downs gets moved into the practice squad.
42:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but the Browns also felt like he was good enough they wanted to use that pick on him rather than wait until free ages to open up and try to battle with everybody to sign him as a UDFA.
42:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe there is interest in him from other teams.
42:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see how it goes, but I like the guys in this battle.
42:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're not talking about elite players or anything like that, obviously, but I think there are some good players here that could come out and emerge for the Browns.
42:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, you take a look at Switzer.
42:55
[SPEAKER_03]: He's our offensive coordinator.
42:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And nearly he was with the Ravens for last couple of years.
43:00
[SPEAKER_03]: He had likely, he had Andrews.
43:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And who's the other Charlie Kohler?
43:05
[SPEAKER_03]: Charlie Kohler.
43:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
43:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's going to do what and what role with those guys is Kohler going to be the stall is it going to be?
43:13
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, Ryan Royer or Ryan, I meant to say good things.
43:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And then Royer is going to be the Andrews type guy.
43:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously likely will be fan in.
43:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, that's kind of how I look at it in my head.
43:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Will it be like that?
43:26
[SPEAKER_03]: It will see how training camp and preseason goes.
43:29
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's interesting like you and I are talking.
43:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And we want all these position battles.
43:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And guess what we've all touched on offense, because we did not see any last year.
43:38
[SPEAKER_03]: And we need some competition to drive up.
43:41
[SPEAKER_03]: the competitive spirit so we get more touchdowns this year and that's obviously what we want to see.
43:50
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45:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, absolutely.
45:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know we've focused heavily on the often side of the ball because that's where a lot of this is happening.
45:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You did have one position on defense.
45:39
[SPEAKER_01]: You wanted to just talk about real quick.
45:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So do you want to go into that real real fast?
45:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just, and I'll get your thoughts on it.
45:45
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, for me, basically, it's just the slot corner position.
45:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, who do you guys think is going to show up?
45:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Because with Mike Rutenberg, and when we've been constantly over the last couple of weeks talking about this three safety system, what's going to happen?
46:00
[SPEAKER_03]: Because right now, Miles Hardin, he would be the incumbent.
46:04
[SPEAKER_03]: He was 7th round draft pick two years ago, I guess now.
46:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And
46:10
[SPEAKER_03]: He is the guy that our passing game coordinator has very high expectations for this year.
46:17
[SPEAKER_03]: The one thing is is when you're playing a three safety system and you're constantly in nickel, sometimes the nickel is a safety.
46:25
[SPEAKER_03]: So who's going to take the snaps?
46:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it going to be more safety-staking snaps away from him?
46:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Because we have another guy in the mix and it's a guy that you and I were pretty high on it was Michael Coats Jr. You know, and if you take a look,
46:38
[SPEAKER_03]: at Michael Coates Jr.
46:40
[SPEAKER_03]: He's very, very tantalizing because while he's five nine and a hundred eighty four pounds runs a three four nine and his code drill is elite is six point eight three four nine.
46:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sorry, four three nine is it?
46:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this guy's fast.
46:58
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm sorry.
46:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I got dyslexic there for a second.
47:00
[SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome.
47:02
[SPEAKER_03]: But, yeah, I mean, he projects as a slot corner for sure, and if you take a look at him, I mean, his film just screams nickel corner, like this is always traits, elite short, quickness, he shows loose hips, excellent route anticipation, natural ball skills, aggression on run support.
47:24
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, you know, at his size, you may think, oh, maybe not, dude, he likes to tackle.
47:31
[SPEAKER_03]: to that the loose hips and the elite short area quickness.
47:34
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of times when Barry's getting these UDFAs, he's looking for elite traits, high-rass, all those kind of things.
47:42
[SPEAKER_03]: That 6.83 cundrel really stands out.
47:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And I bet yeah, a ton of people wanted this guy.
47:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank God we got him.
47:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
47:49
[SPEAKER_03]: But when I talk about the safety's, I mean, Grand Dill pit, I don't know if you took a look at his snaps in the slot.
47:57
[SPEAKER_03]: He took like 280 snaps there.
48:00
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's a fair amount.
48:01
[SPEAKER_03]: But now what do you want to do with Grant Delpit?
48:04
[SPEAKER_03]: He, let's some people think he's holding in.
48:07
[SPEAKER_03]: We need him.
48:07
[SPEAKER_03]: We got to re-sign him maybe to an extension.
48:10
[SPEAKER_03]: But do you want him to be more of a traditional, strong safety?
48:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And you want to move a manual, a manual, a worn.
48:18
[SPEAKER_03]: into that role of slot and take some of those snaps away because we have him.
48:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he's got excellent range.
48:25
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a physical attacker, which you need to be at the line of scrimmage.
48:29
[SPEAKER_03]: Can match up with tight ends or bigger slot receivers.
48:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Good instincts on zone, versatile to disguise coverage is like that's a big thing for root and bird.
48:38
[SPEAKER_03]: So,
48:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to throw it out there for you guys.
48:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Slot is super important.
48:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we gave up a lot of touchdowns there last year.
48:47
[SPEAKER_03]: How are we going to handle it?
48:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Is Michael Coast Jr going to get some reps on defense?
48:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Is he developing?
48:55
[SPEAKER_03]: I just want to see in training camp.
48:59
[SPEAKER_03]: want to see how many reps he's getting there.
49:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to see where Miles is, is if he's starting and then what's the safety situation?
49:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's playing closer to the line in scrimmage?
49:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And how that all shakes out in the end?
49:12
[SPEAKER_03]: But either way, between those three, I think they can be some kind of chess piece not to give up what kind of defense you are in.
49:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
49:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's no surprise anybody here.
49:24
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a secret.
49:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a big miles heart and guy.
49:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Just, well, that's why I put it out there, man.
49:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
49:31
[SPEAKER_01]: He got lit.
49:33
[SPEAKER_01]: He just always does.
49:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's on the field.
49:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, hmm, here we go.
49:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Not that he'd never does anything well, obviously.
49:40
[SPEAKER_01]: He makes some nice plays here and there, but I think for the most part, it's frustrating when he's on the field.
49:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, he's still a young player.
49:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Could he still continue to grow develop, and I mean, we saw Ronnie Hickman took a major step forward last year in his third season.
49:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think Harden, this is either year three or four.
49:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember, like you said, but
49:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's still potential there, but I am way more interested in the young guys, Michael Coats Jr. And the other guy out of Delaware, Nate Evans, the other UDFA there.
50:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think both of these guys were making plays and many camp obviously didn't have starters, their densel ward, you know, and not everybody's there during the spring.
50:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody will be there during the summer.
50:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to be one of the training camp starts.
50:18
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where storylines.
50:20
[SPEAKER_01]: and headlines and things are worth paying more attention to for sure than it is in the spring.
50:25
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm glad you brought up Hickman too.
50:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I didn't put him in that slot conversation because he's more free to say if he's a free safety.
50:32
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, people were wondering he doesn't if he took check out his stats.
50:35
[SPEAKER_03]: He or his snap cement to say he does not play near the line at scrimmage or slot.
50:40
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, he'll come into the box at times, but he is most primarily a free safety.
50:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it all bit is your really flexible guy.
50:49
[SPEAKER_01]: He can kind of do it all.
50:50
[SPEAKER_01]: He can play whatever safety spot you need him to play and do it at a high level.
50:54
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I do think there is an extension coming for for Grant.
50:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we'll probably get it.
50:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I would be surprised, honestly, if we get it before July 28th, when he has to report with the other veterans, there's been an extension worked out and I think it will definitely happen before the season.
51:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you got the rookie EMW and we really don't know exactly how the Browns want to use him.
51:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I just know that he's I'm excited for him man.
51:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm excited for this safety crew.
51:20
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm excited to see how the secondary shakes out.
51:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm looking forward to get one more veteran in there.
51:27
[SPEAKER_03]: I think each unit on the defense needs a like a veteran.
51:35
[SPEAKER_03]: We need to get a probably a defense event, maybe a defensive tackle veteran.
51:40
[SPEAKER_03]: We need to get a safety.
51:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we need another safety.
51:43
[SPEAKER_03]: If one of the three get injured, we need someone that can play another piece for the defensive backfield as well in the corner.
51:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, my agree.
51:53
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you and I have both been, hey, look at the depth on this defense.
51:56
[SPEAKER_01]: It ain't great.
51:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
51:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.
51:59
[SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
52:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
52:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So, those are the position battles we really wanted to highlight here real quick for you guys on this episode.
52:06
[SPEAKER_01]: The last one, obviously, quarterback is the most talked about the biggest deal as far as a position battle goes for the Browns this year.
52:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We've hit the quarterback competition a ton on the show.
52:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked about the other night on the alive episode.
52:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we were all in a grievance on how it should shake out.
52:23
[SPEAKER_01]: But can you if you had to make a prediction right now on how it's going to shake out?
52:29
[SPEAKER_01]: What would it be?
52:30
[SPEAKER_03]: But I would go Shador Sanders, like if I'm putting my GM cap on, I'm looking to get out of the Sean Watson mess financially.
52:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm putting everything out there for Sanders.
52:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he's he's trending up though.
52:46
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think the Sean Watson and this is kind of recapping last night.
52:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think the Sean Watson is trending.
52:52
[SPEAKER_03]: He's not trending up.
52:52
[SPEAKER_03]: That's for sure.
52:53
[SPEAKER_03]: If anything, he's stagnant or going down.
52:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So I get why people see it because he's got the pro bulls.
52:59
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got the pedigree, but that was five years ago, you know, the reality is he's just, he's not going anywhere right now.
53:05
[SPEAKER_03]: We're Sanders while he performed well up through Jacksonville State and to Colorado, those stats don't really matter, but the one thing I think you can take if you look at his tape is he's an advanced decision maker.
53:17
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got high football IQ.
53:20
[SPEAKER_03]: he constantly improves based on what happens the game before and you know he's a rookie so he's just every day's a rediscovery day for him at this point.
53:30
[SPEAKER_03]: He's still developing and that's where the ascension comes from.
53:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Now if you take a look at
53:35
[SPEAKER_03]: at the tape.
53:36
[SPEAKER_03]: I just haven't seen anything from Deshawn Watson in the last four years.
53:40
[SPEAKER_03]: Anything that's changed, you know, and it's constantly like it was Ken Dorsey's fault.
53:44
[SPEAKER_03]: It was Kevin's to Fanske's fault.
53:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's always, now it's going to be a new thing because mountains here.
53:51
[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe he's got a better chance.
53:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I just, I don't see it based on the history.
53:55
[SPEAKER_03]: That's it, you know.
53:56
[SPEAKER_03]: So what, what the coaches are saying, I mean, at this point,
54:02
[SPEAKER_03]: If I hear Monkton say that nobody's separating and, you know, Sertor has only got seven games on hers belt, and this guy's got like 64, whatever he has, it's a big problem for Watson, you know.
54:14
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to go ahead with Sertor.
54:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think the upside's bigger, and I want to see what he can do behind a line that's stable and better weapons.
54:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think a lot of people are looking at things the wrong way when they say, well, if Shador can't beat out Watson, then he must not be very good.
54:30
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys, people who say that you're looking at it the wrong way, like you just said, Shador is a second year guy who only has seven starts under his belt to Sean Watson is being paid 230 freaking million dollars to play quarterback for us, to start, to not have to have a quarterback competition ever while he's on the team.
54:49
[SPEAKER_01]: and yet he's not doesn't have the job.
54:52
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that speaks more to the progress of Shador Sanders and what the team believes he can be, then it does the other way around.
54:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's how we need to be looking at it and I agree with you.
55:01
[SPEAKER_01]: If I had to predict right now, I know Justin said the other night he would drop over dead if Shador wasn't named the starter.
55:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I'm willing to go that far because again, this still is the Browns and we've seen decisions they've made in the past as an organization, but if I had to make a prediction,
55:18
[SPEAKER_01]: He'll be QB1, the Sean Watts and obviously he'll be QB2, he'll be your backup guy.
55:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't get rid of him.
55:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't trade him, you can't draw, you can't do anything.
55:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's going to be there.
55:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think QB3,
55:31
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be tail and green.
55:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that I would predict Dylan Gabriel as part of your roster cut down because you have a better chance of him sliding through waivers to come onto the practice squad than you do tail and green.
55:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody will pick him up.
55:44
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
55:45
[SPEAKER_03]: 100% agree with you.
55:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And everything you're saying just points towards the culture shift that's happening right now.
55:51
[SPEAKER_03]: There is a youth movement, I think, tail and green and should our Sanders definitely part of that youth movement.
55:58
[SPEAKER_03]: and with the reps that should or got last year, let's see what he has.
56:02
[SPEAKER_03]: If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out and then we're on to next year and another quarterback situation.
56:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I just, I'm not ready to look at 2027 yet because 2026 hasn't even started and we have a guy on the team that, by Solson Plasher's last year, I'm ready to see what else we can do and if, like you said, if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, but the one way to guarantee it doesn't work out is to not give him a chance.
56:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's 100% correct.
56:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for sure.
56:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, I know a lot of people were in the chat the other night's saying, well, what about this to Sean?
56:31
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to re-sign him if he plays well.
56:34
[SPEAKER_01]: guys, let's, we don't need to worry about that, okay?
56:40
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't need to worry about it.
56:41
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'll be probably the worst selling jersey in Cleveland right now.
56:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think anybody's buying one is face isn't they?
56:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Do they sell?
56:50
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know.
56:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just in the team shop what three weeks ago and I don't think I saw one.
56:55
[SPEAKER_01]: See, and that's what I talk about too.
56:57
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll just say this real quick before we get out of here.
56:59
[SPEAKER_01]: The actions of the team and the organization speak more than this whole, like, oh, well, we're gonna have this even competent, they want shit or Sanders to be the guy.
57:08
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the face of the website.
57:10
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the face of the organization.
57:11
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the one they want on the banner outside the stadium because people will root for him and get excited to see him.
57:16
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the jersey they feature on the website.
57:19
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the face of their online merchandise.
57:25
[SPEAKER_01]: schedule release video they specifically mentioned him is all don't or you know sorry you can't watch the door during the by week he won't be playing this week you know what I mean and I know some people look at that stuff and say well they're just using it to sell stuff yeah sure but at the same time they they obviously see the value there in him as a player because that stuff doesn't sell for very long if he's not ever on the field
57:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, I heard somebody's trying this self tickets for a new stadium too.
57:54
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, that might go a long way because the shun does not have have that for any season ticket holder right now.
58:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think no.
58:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely not.
58:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So there we go.
58:05
[SPEAKER_01]: That's our position battle breakdowns that we wanted to talk about for you guys here today on this episode.
58:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So drop it in the comments.
58:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us know.
58:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Who do you think is going to win these position battles?
58:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there other battles on the roster that you want us to break down later in the summer?
58:19
[SPEAKER_01]: We can get into that kind of stuff.
58:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Give us your thoughts, your opinions, your takes, your feedback, everything we appreciate everybody tuning in.
58:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Watching the show continue to support us and help us grow this platform.
58:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a ton of fun.
58:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we said at the beginning, go to join the dogs.com if you want to be part of our official dog pack community, get in register for the fancy football leagues coming up.
58:40
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58:41
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58:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't wait much longer guys seriously get in now and You know, it's just five bucks a month to be a part of the the patreon and that gets you access to the fantasy leaves Get you access to the private discord channel The diehard Browns fans community people from across the world all kinds of different states countries You know can he's up in Canada?
59:07
[SPEAKER_01]: We've he's met people for other Canadians that are in the dog pack and
59:11
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's just it's a good time and it's awesome down the UK hung out hung out.
59:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, you know, with a bunch of people there.
59:17
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
59:18
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it's that's great.
59:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's awesome.
59:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So join the dogs.com and I think that's probably going to be it for this week.
59:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got 4th of July holiday weekend coming up.
59:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So everybody stay safe.
59:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Happy 4th of July.
59:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Have a great time celebrating their friends and your family.
59:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Just keep all your fingers.
59:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Be smart and have a great time.
59:38
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you guys next week.
59:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go Brown.
59:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go brownies
1:00:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we all dogs.
1:00:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening to another episode of The Dogs Podcast.
1:00:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Follow us on social media at The Dogs Podcast.
1:00:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Join our dog pack community at joinTheDogs.com.
1:00:25
[SPEAKER_01]: This episode is sponsored by Kaoshi.
1:00:27
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Browns Vand, you know, we've all messed around with the sports books before, right?
1:00:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's be honest, you're always kind of playing into the house.
1:00:34
[SPEAKER_01]: But with Kaoshi, it's different.
1:00:36
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not betting against some sports book.
1:00:38
[SPEAKER_01]: You're trading against other real-world people.
1:00:41
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no house trying to beat you Kaoshi just runs the marketplace.
1:00:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you think the public is wrong, like everybody's overreacting to these smoke screens in the draft or sleeping on a prospect, you can literally take the other side of the market.
1:00:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just sports either.
1:00:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You can trade on other real-world stuff, interest rates, inflation, even wild weather outcomes.
1:01:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It works like this, simple yes or no markets, your risk is capped up front and your payout is locked in.
1:01:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you trust your takes and instincts, and I know you guys do, go check out Cowshin see what markets are live right now.
1:01:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So head over to calshy.com slash dogs, k-a-l-s-h-i.com slash dogs, d-a-w-g-s, deposit just $20, and Cowshin's gonna match you, they're gonna put $20 free into your account.
1:01:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great deal to get started.
1:01:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, calshie.com slash dogs $20 match when you deposit $20 into your account.