Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Millionaire's girlfriend found hanged in series of intricate knots. Murder or suicide?

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Millionaire's girlfriend found hanged in series of intricate knots. Murder or suicide? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Triumph Channel one thirty two. A gorgeous girl comes to
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Speaker 1: the US with her family from Burma to seek a
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Speaker 1: better life, and they work like dogs to provide their
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Speaker 1: children a better a different life and education. So how
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Speaker 1: did this beautiful girl, Rebecca's the Hall end up dead?
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Speaker 1: Hanging naked, her hands bound behind her in an intricate knot,
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Speaker 1: a hood over her head, well, a sweatshirt over her head,
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Speaker 1: around her face, her mouth gagged, hanging outside naked off
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Speaker 1: of balcony. That doesn't sound like an accident to me,
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Speaker 1: But when you throw in millions and millions of dollars
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Speaker 1: and influential families involved, everything seems to go sideways right,
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Speaker 1: I mean, I see, Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
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Speaker 1: you for being with us, with me an incredible lineup.
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Speaker 1: Keith Greer, the lawyer for that girl Rebecca's the Halls Family,
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Speaker 1: a veteran trial lawyer, and with me world renowned forensic
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Speaker 1: pathologists Cyril Wecht, who worked diligently for Rebecca's, a Hawes family,
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Speaker 1: high profile lawyer and Bremner Forensics expert. Professor of Forensics.
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Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, Dr Carol Lieberman, psychiatrist and author of Lions,
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Speaker 1: Tigers and Terrorists, Ohmi, How to Protect Your Child and
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Investigative reporter Nanette Sosa you probably already figured
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Speaker 1: out by now. I'm talking about the beautiful young girl,
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Speaker 1: Rebecca's the Hall dead at the mansion of a millionaire
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Speaker 1: Jonah shack Night. Now to bizarre deaths, shaking this wealthy,
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Speaker 1: wealthy southern California community and sending armchair sleuth into a frenzy.
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Speaker 1: I just don't understand how the case was ruled accidental
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Speaker 1: by Sheriff's Let's start at the beginning of the story.
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Speaker 1: It doesn't really start with the suicide, the alleged suicide.
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Speaker 1: Rebecca's a how it starts with the death of a
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Speaker 1: little boy named Max. Straight out to the family lawyer
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Speaker 1: Keith Greer, how does a story about a woman hanging
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Speaker 1: naked outside off the balcony start with the death of
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Speaker 1: a six year old boy? At that point in time,
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Speaker 1: it was back in two thousand and eleven. Rebecca had
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Speaker 1: been dating Jonah shack Night, the millionaire, and he had
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Speaker 1: through primary just on six year old Max. Cute kid.
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Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of videotape of him. Talked to
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Speaker 1: his mom Nina to Joan about him. From all accounts,
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Speaker 1: really a bright, energetic child. Um, that morning, he's precious.
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Speaker 1: Do you have any children? Do you have children, Keith?
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Speaker 1: I meant that age at six, they're they're beautiful. They're
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Speaker 1: still like little angels is before they really learned to
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Speaker 1: talk back effectively. Go ahead, very curious, very bright, very personable,
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Speaker 1: handsome young man. And uh, but that morning, this is
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Speaker 1: now two days before Rebecca's murder. Early in the morning,
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Speaker 1: Jonas says he's at the gym working out. Now, wait
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Speaker 1: a minute, Jonah shot and I is like, um a
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Speaker 1: software uh multi millionaire right is involved with computers. Medicis
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Speaker 1: was his company at the time. Medicis the pharmacist company
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Speaker 1: that uses makes wrestling, you know, for injecting and faces
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Speaker 1: and injectables. He made his money off getting rid of
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Speaker 1: wrinkles with rustalling and something to do with acne medications,
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Speaker 1: right like cosmoceuticals, you know, so to speaking it at
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Speaker 1: this time. So he us the multi millionaire and Rebecca's
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Speaker 1: the hall, you know, fresh off the boat from Burnham
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Speaker 1: with her family now in her you know, she's in
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Speaker 1: the late twenties, early thirty. She meets Jonah shackn I,
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Speaker 1: the millionaire, and they start dating. That morning, he goes
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Speaker 1: to the gym. She's alone taking care of Max and
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Speaker 1: her own little sisters in the home. Okay, in the mansion.
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Speaker 1: It's huge go ahead, yes, so yes, so, and like
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Speaker 1: you mentioned, Rebecca's sisters visiting. Um, they finished breakfast, Rebecca's
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Speaker 1: sister goes up to take a shower. Rebecca's taking care
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Speaker 1: of household chores and here's this huge crash, and then
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Speaker 1: comes into the foyer to find Max lying on the
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Speaker 1: ground unconscious. Um, the chandelier from the foyer falling down
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Speaker 1: onto the floor. Also he's not breathing, and so she's
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Speaker 1: she screams for her sister to come help. She starts
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Speaker 1: CPR as her sister call nine one one UM. They
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Speaker 1: show up very quickly but aren't able to resuscitate act
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Speaker 1: at that time. So what let me understand exactly? Uh
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Speaker 1: with me? Nanette? So so Crimes Toys investigative reporter Nanette.
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Speaker 1: Six year old Max is there with the dad's girlfriend, Rebecca,
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Speaker 1: one of the women. Her little sister is doing chores.
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Speaker 1: Once taking a shower, they hear a bang. Max apparently
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Speaker 1: has been playing with either a ball or the new
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Speaker 1: puppy and somehow goes zooming over the second floor balcony
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Speaker 1: of the staircase I guess, grabs at the chandelier and
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Speaker 1: falls really to his death. He never comes back to
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Speaker 1: He falls face down onto the fourier floor and the
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Speaker 1: chandelier falls to Ninette, Yes, that that's exactly what happened.
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Speaker 1: He was up on the second floor. They believe he
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Speaker 1: was running possibly trip flips over this balcony onto the
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Speaker 1: chandelier and comes crashing down again. The dad was at
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Speaker 1: the gym. Rebecca is the house at the house along
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Speaker 1: with the younger sister, and one of the telling things
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Speaker 1: was when it happened. The Rebecca's out was so nervous
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Speaker 1: telling her sister. According to court documents that I read
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Speaker 1: that Dina is going to kill me. She's just gonna
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Speaker 1: kill me because of the accident that happened to Max. Well,
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Speaker 1: you're right, Dina is little Max's mom. So nine one
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Speaker 1: one is called. They come get the boy. They race
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Speaker 1: him to the hospital. The dad is alerted Jonas shack Ny,
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Speaker 1: the mom, Dina shack Knight, they're divorced. They all race
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Speaker 1: to the children's hospital and start a bedside vigil. Enter
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Speaker 1: shack NY's brother. The brother comes from I think it
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Speaker 1: was Tennessee, Nashville and Memphis area. He's a tugboat captain.
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Speaker 1: As a fiction writer, he lives his own in his
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Speaker 1: own world. He travels to California Lands. That night they
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Speaker 1: go out to dinner. He's there with Rebecca. She's alive
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Speaker 1: and well. They're waiting on news about little mat X
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Speaker 1: and then suddenly things take a sideways turn. We find
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Speaker 1: out Max is not doing well. He in facts, he's
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Speaker 1: taking a turn for the worse, and Adam shackn I
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Speaker 1: calls Rebecca or text her and tells her what Keith career. Actually,
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Speaker 1: that's where the evidence gets a little fuzzy and changed
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Speaker 1: over the years, because earlier that day, this is July twelve,
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Speaker 1: the test came back regarding Max's condition of his brain,
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Speaker 1: and he actually hadn't according to those tests gotten words,
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Speaker 1: he had in fact some improvements. He was not out
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Speaker 1: of the woods. He had a terrible ball. His injuries
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Speaker 1: were we're devastating, but the turn hadn't technically happened yet,
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Speaker 1: although Jonah says that he spoke with the treating physician,
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Speaker 1: and the treating physician gave Jonah dismal news that caused
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Speaker 1: Jonah to think that things were much worse than initially anticipated.
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Speaker 1: And Jonah then is that he left a message for
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Speaker 1: Rebecca twelve a m that that early morning of July thirteen,
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Speaker 1: saying that you know, Max may not ever walk, or
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Speaker 1: probably won't walk, probably won't ever talk again, or something
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Speaker 1: to that effect. Take a listen to exactly what veteran
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Speaker 1: trial lawyer Keith Greer is talking about. Here is Jonas
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Speaker 1: Shack and I himself. He's on ABC, and he's describing
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Speaker 1: a voicemail he says he left for Rebecca's a hall
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Speaker 1: that may have made her feel like Max's death was
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Speaker 1: all her fault left her a voice message pretty upset.
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Speaker 1: All I can think is that Rebecca saw what had happened,
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Speaker 1: felt responsible in some way, not that she did anything,
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Speaker 1: but that she was entrusted with Max and that that
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Speaker 1: was too much to bear. You know, the decision to
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Speaker 1: take a life is it's a decision that that is
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Speaker 1: int rational, and it's hard to sit here and rationally
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Speaker 1: examine what might have gone through someone's head at a
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Speaker 1: moment that they lost reason and did something horrible to
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Speaker 1: themselves and it turns out horrible to a lot of
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Speaker 1: other people. Rebecca is a Hall found hanging dead naked
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Speaker 1: outside the balcony of the home after that voicemail from
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Speaker 1: Jonah Why what really happened? It was ruled a suicide,
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Speaker 1: but Rebecca Zaha's sister Mary insists with Dr Feels she
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Speaker 1: does not believe Rebecca killed herself. Listen to Rebecca's sister Mary,
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Speaker 1: that your sister committed suicide. You believe that someone killed her.
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Speaker 1: She was found hanging from a balcony with her hands
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Speaker 1: tied behind her back, her feet tied a T shirt
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Speaker 1: or underneck, and in her mouth, in her mouth and
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Speaker 1: hung and with very elaborate knots tied around, and you're
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Speaker 1: saying that that's not suicide, that didn't happen. So what
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Speaker 1: did happen? I think someone or several people held my
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Speaker 1: sister responsible for what happened to Max. When Max got
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Speaker 1: injured up there are hospital records that said that Max
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Speaker 1: might have been suffocated. As a mother or somebody related
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Speaker 1: to maths, you can assume, Okay, Rebecca was the caregiver.
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Speaker 1: But the sad part is nobody really investigated what really happened.
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Speaker 1: I mean, nobody knows who was in the house that
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Speaker 1: was Mary, Rebecca's sister, insisting Rebecca did not commit suicide.
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Speaker 1: And now with me the forensic pathologist world renowned who
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Speaker 1: worked for Rebecca's family, Cyril Wet. Dr Cyril Wecht has
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Speaker 1: been on many famous cases and became involved in this
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Speaker 1: case as well. Cyril is so great to talk to you,
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Speaker 1: as usual, Cyril. Uh. When I first heard about the
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Speaker 1: circumstances surrounding Rebecca being hung, you know, she's young, she's beautiful,
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Speaker 1: she seemed in fairly good spirits in light of what
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Speaker 1: had happened that evening. Her family says, no way would
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Speaker 1: she have done this. But that's all well, and good.
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Speaker 1: What convinced me at the beginning this was not a
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Speaker 1: suicide was the elaborate step she would have had to
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Speaker 1: take to do it herself. There, Correct me if I'm wrong, Cyril,
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Speaker 1: and then you explain it better than me. But I'll
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Speaker 1: I almost tell it in regular people talk, Cyril. She
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Speaker 1: tied somebody tied a rope to the foot of her bed,
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Speaker 1: of a bed a guest room bid a rope to
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Speaker 1: the bed, Carry the rope out to the balcony. All right.
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Speaker 1: So she had this intricate set of knots like crazy
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Speaker 1: sailor type knots that are hard to tie. With her
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Speaker 1: hands behind her back, her feet were bound to She
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Speaker 1: had her somehow with her hands tied behind her back,
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Speaker 1: gagged herself. I guess she could have done that before,
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Speaker 1: with something in her mouth. She had a T shirt
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Speaker 1: wrapped partially across her face. She then completely naked, which
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Speaker 1: statistically never happens. Women never commit suicide naked ever. I
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Speaker 1: don't know why they just don't. She hobbles out, jumps
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Speaker 1: out to the balcony, gagged bound hands and feet, hands
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Speaker 1: behind her, with a noose around her neck, somehow throws
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Speaker 1: herself over the balcony to be found hanging naked by
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Speaker 1: her loved ones. That's the lay person's explanation. Cyril wecked,
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Speaker 1: why was this not suicide? Well, Nancy, you've outlined that
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Speaker 1: very clearly. And the bindings around her ankles was so
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Speaker 1: tight that there were actually some superficial contusions of the
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Speaker 1: calf muscles. So right there, Cyril, when you talk about Cyril,
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Speaker 1: you said the word contusion. I just you're talking to me, Cyril.
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Speaker 1: I'm just a j D. You're the m D. What's
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Speaker 1: the contusion of bruise? I know you're you're you're you're
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Speaker 1: you're sharp. I know, I listen. Um, the picture of
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Speaker 1: the scenario that you have clearly outlined, Nancy is totally
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Speaker 1: totally incongruous with a suicide. Um. The bindings were such
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Speaker 1: that it would be impossible really to move to maneuver
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Speaker 1: herself five ft two inches over a three ft height reeling.
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Speaker 1: How do you get up there with your ankles bound
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Speaker 1: in that fashion and your wrist and so on. The
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Speaker 1: point you make about nudity is right on target. So
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Speaker 1: you are a sharp j D to know that that
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Speaker 1: women do not commit suicide nude, whether it's ceo, shotgun, starving, hanging,
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Speaker 1: or drugs. They do not commit suicide by hanging. Then
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Speaker 1: you have a drop of nine ft two inches from
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Speaker 1: the balcony. If she hurtled over that in one fell swoop,
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Speaker 1: the force would have been tremendous force equaling one half
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Speaker 1: mass times velocity squared that body hurtling down. That is
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Speaker 1: we're referred to as an execution hanging, where the head
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Speaker 1: sometimes is pulled away, decapitation, partial decapitation, and certainly at
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Speaker 1: the very least a cervical vertebral fracture or dislocation. What white,
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Speaker 1: what white? Hold on? Hold on, hold on. Listening to
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Speaker 1: you and Joe Scott Morgan is just like drinking from
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Speaker 1: the fire, Hydra. I just can't take it all in
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Speaker 1: that fast. Wait a minute, Cyre, hold on, now, hold on, Cyril,
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Speaker 1: let me let me gather my thoughts. Okay, hold on.
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Speaker 1: I think you said something about if she jumps, she
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Speaker 1: commits suicide by jumping off that balcony, and you were
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Speaker 1: quoting exact measurements nine ft six I think what you're
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Speaker 1: saying in regular people talk is if she had jumped
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Speaker 1: off the balcony with a rope around her neck, it
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Speaker 1: would have broken her neck. Yeah, at that velocity, you've
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Speaker 1: got the the first seven vertebrae coming down from the
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Speaker 1: base of your skull, cervical vertebrae, the bottom one seventh
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Speaker 1: is the bony protuberance you can feel at the base
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Speaker 1: of your neck. And when you have that kind of
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Speaker 1: an execution hanging, so to speak, then you have a
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Speaker 1: fractured dislocation. Did she have that? No, she did not
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Speaker 1: do not only there were no fractures or dislocations. There
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Speaker 1: were no hammer. There was no damage at all to
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Speaker 1: the posterior neck muscles and soft tissues. So here's my question,
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Speaker 1: if I can even articulate it uh correctly, what would
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Speaker 1: be the difference if she threw herself over the balcony
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Speaker 1: or if someone else threw her over the balcony. Either
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Speaker 1: way she would have the neck breaking of those as
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Speaker 1: you said, that bony bone at the bottom of your
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Speaker 1: neck you can feel back there, the cervical vertebrae would
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Speaker 1: have been hemorrahaged or broken. That did not happen. So
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Speaker 1: are you saying then that she was killed before she
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Speaker 1: was thrown over the balcony? And yes, number one, I
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Speaker 1: believe she was dead in the final seconds of of
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Speaker 1: of death number one and number two. I don't think
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Speaker 1: that she was hurled over. I think that the rope
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Speaker 1: from the bed post that she referred to was being
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Speaker 1: held in the assailant's him and he was letting the
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Speaker 1: rope down with her body incrementally. The big thing then
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Speaker 1: getting back to injuries, Nazi and so he would have
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Speaker 1: killed her before and then yes she was What were
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Speaker 1: the knot cyriluette? What? What? What? What? What are the
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Speaker 1: knots called? They're very intricantly done. Not well, I'm not
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Speaker 1: the expert knots. I'll let Keith refer to that, but
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Speaker 1: you're quite right they were intricate knots, and the tugboat
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Speaker 1: operator and the defendant in this civil case quite familiar
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Speaker 1: and expert in in these knots. The big thing about
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Speaker 1: the death is I believe it was due to manual strangulation.
18:39
Speaker 1: And the reason for that, Nancy, is that there was
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Speaker 1: a fracture of the chris quate cartilage. The chris quite
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Speaker 1: cartilage is the first ring of cartilaginous tissue at the
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Speaker 1: beginning of the trachea the windpipe. It is inches below
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Speaker 1: the Adam's apple. The fireroid. Oh my stars, O stars,
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Speaker 1: just got Morgan. Hold on, Cyril, I'm astounded at what
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Speaker 1: you're telling me. Just got Morgan with me. Professor Forensics,
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Speaker 1: Jackson State University, Joe Scott. I think what he's saying, Okay,
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Speaker 1: interpret from me what Cyril? What just said? I think
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Speaker 1: he's saying that on the front of her below where
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Speaker 1: the rope is, there is a fracture, a fracture or
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Speaker 1: an injury that means she was manually strangled, not dead
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Speaker 1: from the rest. Yes. Dr Wegg pointed out there was
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Speaker 1: no He He stated that there was no hemorrhage posteriorly,
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Speaker 1: which means on the back of the neck that uh,
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Speaker 1: that sup or that on the anterior side or the
19:47
Speaker 1: front side of her neck. It would be consistent, It
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Speaker 1: would be consistent with someone having essentially sea clamped or
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Speaker 1: throttled her throat prior to death. If I could just
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Speaker 1: interject one little other possibility here, for peace's sake, please
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Speaker 1: speak English, regular English. I think I think that the
20:08
Speaker 1: I think that this this may also uh, there may
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Speaker 1: be uh to consider the possibility that this might be
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Speaker 1: a perimortem event, which means in the throes of death
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Speaker 1: where she could have been strangled. She's in the midst
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Speaker 1: of dying, and then slowly she is to guarantee her death.
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Speaker 1: She slowly let down off of the front side of
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Speaker 1: this balcony and this results in her death along with
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Speaker 1: the manual strangulation. How is it that Joe Scott Morgan
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Speaker 1: and Cyril Weckt say it so plainly, but it was
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Speaker 1: still ruled an accident. And I mean, you guys are Cyril,
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Speaker 1: You're totally right on, as you so so often are.
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Speaker 1: I don't see how it could be anything but not
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Speaker 1: a suicide. I mean the naked outdoors thing. And I'll
21:01
Speaker 1: tell you how I know that, Cyril. I once prosecuted
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Speaker 1: a murder that was first deemed a suicide and the
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Speaker 1: woman was found shot in the head, which also rarely
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Speaker 1: happens with women that they shoot themselves in the head.
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Speaker 1: But she was naked. Uh. I later found blood spatter
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Speaker 1: under her pillows, Cyril, which you know could not have happened.
21:23
Speaker 1: Blood spatter doesn't creep under your pillow. That means it
21:26
Speaker 1: was staged. So that's when I started studying statistics about
21:30
Speaker 1: suicide to prove this was in fact a murder. But
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Speaker 1: Keith Greer, Zahaw family lawyer off a major victory in court.
21:38
Speaker 1: Keith Greer didn't some neighbors here a woman screaming around
21:43
Speaker 1: midnight at evening. A woman two doors down heard what
21:48
Speaker 1: she said was a woman, not a young girl, not
21:51
Speaker 1: an old woman, she said, a woman, she actually said,
21:53
Speaker 1: actually in her thirties, screaming, help me, help me. Um.
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Speaker 1: She was sitting in her TV room with his hut
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Speaker 1: in the front of the house, with the window opened
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Speaker 1: and people outside making noise too. And when that helped
22:08
Speaker 1: help rank to the neighborhood, the people outside talking stopped talking,
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Speaker 1: got quiet, She got quiet and stopped, turned her TV
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Speaker 1: down to listen for more to see if something else
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Speaker 1: was going to go on. And after waiting for a
22:20
Speaker 1: while and not hearing any additional screams in the additional raucus,
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Speaker 1: she just went back to her TV. The people outside
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Speaker 1: started talking again. Okay, hold it right there, Keith, career,
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Speaker 1: high profile Seattle lawyer with me and Bremner who appeared
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Speaker 1: with me on on this case. And Bremner, what is
22:39
Speaker 1: wrong with rich people? I mean they're all laid back
22:43
Speaker 1: and their plush dan in their in their movie room.
22:47
Speaker 1: I guess and they hears somebody screaming for help and
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Speaker 1: they go, oh, I guess it was nothing, And they
22:54
Speaker 1: turned the TV back up. It's Coronado, Nancy, and it's
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Speaker 1: and it's things like this time happened in Coronado, and
22:59
Speaker 1: actually was in that home talking to her husband, and
23:02
Speaker 1: and of course when they saw things happened with activity
23:05
Speaker 1: with response to of course this horrible tragedy. The next
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Speaker 1: day they're like, oh my gosh, put you and wanted
23:10
Speaker 1: to together. So you get that sometimes, and you know
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Speaker 1: that there were there was so much in this case.
23:16
Speaker 1: It's like you said, this never happens when women don't
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Speaker 1: hang themselves like this, naked off of balcony and everything else.
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Speaker 1: And also what's wrong with rich people? Is this case?
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Speaker 1: When I was involved, we couldn't get anybody the Sheriff's
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Speaker 1: department to change their minds about whether or not this
23:29
Speaker 1: is a suicide. That was their belief. Well, you said
23:31
Speaker 1: something else interesting, And I don't want to bore these
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Speaker 1: high profile lawyers and these these medical doctors. And we've
23:39
Speaker 1: got Carol Lieberman who's a shrink, a psychiatrist, But can
23:43
Speaker 1: we just talk for real just a moment, And I
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Speaker 1: mean you know this went down in a mansion, the
23:51
Speaker 1: Spreckles mansion. Now that that's where they lived, the Spreckle's
23:57
Speaker 1: Mansion on Ocean Boulevard. It's near that historic hotel, Hotel
24:02
Speaker 1: del Coronado, and that is of the movie Some Like
24:07
Speaker 1: It Hot remember that movie with Marilyn Monroe and Jack
24:12
Speaker 1: lemon and I forgot who else. Anyway, it's super famous
24:16
Speaker 1: and it began to be called the Mansion murder Mystery.
24:21
Speaker 1: Now this mansion I researched it for right now belonged
24:25
Speaker 1: to a sugar baron who made his money off sugar
24:29
Speaker 1: millions and millions and millions of dollars. And it was
24:34
Speaker 1: built out of this special I think limestone that actually
24:38
Speaker 1: has changed color over time. And it's a tourist People
24:42
Speaker 1: drive by this mansion and look at it, not because
24:45
Speaker 1: of the death it took place, but because it's famous.
24:49
Speaker 1: It's huge, it's sprawling, it's gorgeous. When you say people
24:52
Speaker 1: in that neighborhood, man, you couldn't have said it any
24:54
Speaker 1: better than that long story short nobody call nine. Did
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26:12
Speaker 1: want to get to another issue. Cyril Wet, forensic pathologist
26:17
Speaker 1: who worked for this family with me. Joseph Scott, Morgan,
26:21
Speaker 1: forensics expert now Cyril, Uh, I don't want to get
26:26
Speaker 1: your ire up, but don't. Medical examiners also look at
26:31
Speaker 1: the circumstances surrounding the murder. For example, I once prosecuted
26:36
Speaker 1: a woman found dead the house burned down. Well, it
26:39
Speaker 1: struck me very odd that she had blows to the head,
26:42
Speaker 1: and I did a little digging. Took me about a month,
26:45
Speaker 1: but I started at the location of the house, and
26:47
Speaker 1: I went to every dry cleaner for the radius of
26:49
Speaker 1: five miles out because I noticed that the husband didn't
26:53
Speaker 1: have any suits in the home and he was a businessman.
26:56
Speaker 1: I finally found all of his suits and a lot
26:58
Speaker 1: of his shirts. He took them all to the dry
27:01
Speaker 1: cleaner the day before the fire broke out. Isn't that
27:04
Speaker 1: quite the coinkie dick? So I looked at the circumstances
27:08
Speaker 1: surrounding the fire. He also removed all his family albums.
27:13
Speaker 1: By the way, anyway, Cyril, what about that ridiculous scrawling
27:21
Speaker 1: on the door of the guest bedroom claiming she saved him?
27:27
Speaker 1: Can you save her? I mean that. When I heard that,
27:31
Speaker 1: it reminded me of that ransome note air quote air
27:34
Speaker 1: quote in the John and a Ramsey case, which sounded
27:38
Speaker 1: like a fifth grade novelist had written it same thing here?
27:43
Speaker 1: Who would write she saved him? Can you save the
27:48
Speaker 1: brother the tugboat captain that flies in that night and
27:52
Speaker 1: he's staying in the home from Rebecca is Kill? Isn't
27:55
Speaker 1: he a fiction writer? Two things about that keep Rear
28:00
Speaker 1: reached out for a question document examiner UM expert and
28:05
Speaker 1: that examiner UM found one or two features that fitted
28:11
Speaker 1: in with Adam Shock's writing. UM number one and number two.
28:17
Speaker 1: The height at which that interesting statements was made was
28:23
Speaker 1: I think taller than the outreach of Rebecca is a
28:27
Speaker 1: house arm or certainly at the very very top of
28:30
Speaker 1: an outstretched hand, and not just straight ahead. It was
28:33
Speaker 1: written above the doorway and the outside of the room.
28:37
Speaker 1: So that important, Cyril Wet, you know what if I
28:40
Speaker 1: were not already married? Okay, when you talk like that,
28:45
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't tell you what it does to me,
28:47
Speaker 1: But I mean, Joseph Scott Morrigan, don't you just love forensics?
28:52
Speaker 1: Aren't we just totally in the right field? Actually getting
28:54
Speaker 1: chilled bumps on my legs right now just hearing Cyril
28:57
Speaker 1: Wet explain why Rebecca's the hall did not write that? Yeah,
29:02
Speaker 1: absolutely Nancy we can we considered his feet all day long,
29:05
Speaker 1: and and and uh just basque in this because I
29:09
Speaker 1: gotta tell you, Uh, this cryptic message that's left behind,
29:13
Speaker 1: it does sound like something that would have emanated from
29:16
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe a junior high schooler. I'm not
29:18
Speaker 1: really sure. But you know, the contention is that she
29:22
Speaker 1: would not have written a note like this, according to
29:25
Speaker 1: her family. And I don't know that there's been any
29:27
Speaker 1: conclusive proof that it was written in her hand. And
29:31
Speaker 1: I think that that is is telling you. Let me
29:33
Speaker 1: go to Dr Carol Lieberman, psychiatrist and author of a
29:39
Speaker 1: brand new book on Amazon Lions, Tigers and Terrorists, Oh My,
29:43
Speaker 1: How to Protect your child in a time of terror.
29:45
Speaker 1: Dr Carroll, right now we really need to shrink because
29:49
Speaker 1: Cyril weckt as renowned forensic pathologist, Joseph S. Gott Morgan
29:54
Speaker 1: Professor of Forensics and Bremner Keith Greer, who knows the
29:59
Speaker 1: facts like the back of his hand as a courtroom veteran.
30:02
Speaker 1: But Dr Carol, this note, this note, she saved him?
30:08
Speaker 1: Can he save her? Cyril has already explained why she
30:12
Speaker 1: could not have written that physically, But what does the
30:16
Speaker 1: note in its cryptic nature, mean to you, doctor Carol Lieberman,
30:21
Speaker 1: good question. Um. Presumably it means that that she saved
30:28
Speaker 1: Jonah um, and can can Jonah save her? You know,
30:33
Speaker 1: I I have a like totally different First of all,
30:36
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a suicide. There's no way though.
30:38
Speaker 1: That's not how women commit suicide. She would not have
30:41
Speaker 1: been macause she wouldn't have hanged herself like that, So
30:44
Speaker 1: that's not the way. But you know, there's one other
30:47
Speaker 1: part that I think it all relates, you know, Keith Greer.
30:50
Speaker 1: This reminds me of why after one time I never
30:54
Speaker 1: listened at the jury deliberation door again because at what
30:58
Speaker 1: they come up with is like, uh, where did that
31:02
Speaker 1: come from? Let me first say there is not a
31:05
Speaker 1: shred of evidence linking Dana, who I have met Anne
31:10
Speaker 1: and very impressed with Dana shack Knight. She was a loving,
31:15
Speaker 1: loving mother to Max. There's nothing whatsoever linking her or
31:20
Speaker 1: her twin sister Nina to the death Rebecca's death. Now,
31:25
Speaker 1: I will tell you something freaky. Witnesses stated they saw
31:29
Speaker 1: Max's mom bamming on the door the night Rebecca was killed.
31:33
Speaker 1: All right, turns out it was her twin sister. I mean,
31:36
Speaker 1: can this plot get any crazier? But nobody ever came
31:40
Speaker 1: to the door, and that has been confirmed, and Nina left.
31:44
Speaker 1: All right, there's no connection. As a matter of fact,
31:47
Speaker 1: you first threw all of them in the pot together
31:51
Speaker 1: to stet Keith Greer, but something made you drop everyone
31:56
Speaker 1: except the brother Adam shack Knight. Right now, I want
32:00
Speaker 1: you to listen to Adam Shatney as he calls nine
32:05
Speaker 1: one one to report that he finds Rebecca's the hall
32:09
Speaker 1: dead here reporting, Yeah, I got a girl on herself.
32:16
Speaker 1: Get house. It's on Ocean Boulevard across from the hotel,
32:21
Speaker 1: same place that you came and got the kid yesterday. Okay,
32:25
Speaker 1: so what is the address? I'm not sure? Huh nineteen
32:29
Speaker 1: I'm in the backhouse is nine company? H I'm not sure?
32:36
Speaker 1: W we call you back? Okay, sir, you don't go alive.
32:40
Speaker 1: I don't know you're alive. Oh okay, let's go alive.
32:56
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Okay, let me get some fire
32:58
Speaker 1: out here. Hang on, let me get the fire department
33:00
Speaker 1: on the phone. Now. Okay, what's wrong? Okay for the Okay,
33:08
Speaker 1: how are they dirty? Okay? Ny far So it's like, okay,
33:15
Speaker 1: it should be on the hell I'm doing right now,
33:21
Speaker 1: and okay, all right, what is your name? You just
33:27
Speaker 1: heard the brother who flew in the tugboat captain, the
33:31
Speaker 1: amateur fiction writer who flies in the night, that Max
33:36
Speaker 1: is killed, that Max is hurt and stays in his brother,
33:39
Speaker 1: Jonah shack Nice home with Jonah's girlfriend. Rebecca's a hall. Okay.
33:44
Speaker 1: A lot of things jumped out at me during that call.
33:47
Speaker 1: For instance, he refers to Rebecca as the hall, as
33:52
Speaker 1: that girl, a girl and the kid, and he doesn't
33:57
Speaker 1: know if she's dead because she's hanging there. Um. All
34:01
Speaker 1: of that struck me as odd to Keith Greer, could
34:07
Speaker 1: you please tell me why you included the brother Adam
34:12
Speaker 1: shack Ny in your civil suit. And this is after
34:15
Speaker 1: the sheriff rules this is all just a big accident.
34:17
Speaker 1: She killed herself is suicide. Why did you go forward
34:21
Speaker 1: with a wrongful death action? Why did you drop the
34:25
Speaker 1: mom Max's mom out of it? Why did Jonah the
34:28
Speaker 1: boyfriend wasn't involved. Why did you hone in on the
34:32
Speaker 1: tugboat captain, brother Adam shack Ny. The key to the
34:35
Speaker 1: whole case is that's saying on the door, you know
34:39
Speaker 1: she saved him? Can you save her? And when we
34:43
Speaker 1: went into we tried to fege okay, who got saved here?
34:46
Speaker 1: And the medical records and the interviews with the family
34:49
Speaker 1: members are all consistent that Rebecca had saved Max that
34:53
Speaker 1: morning when he fell. She was immediately there. She immediately
34:57
Speaker 1: started CPR. Those first couple of minutes are so important
35:01
Speaker 1: to the survival rate. She kept providing CPR until the
35:05
Speaker 1: first responders got there. So she had saved Max. And
35:09
Speaker 1: throw the next few days, um everybody felt that way.
35:13
Speaker 1: In fact, the day she was murdered, um Nina testified
35:18
Speaker 1: and senator at trial that Jonah had told her and
35:22
Speaker 1: this is the evening she was murdered. Jonah had told
35:25
Speaker 1: her earlier that evening. The next time she sees Rebecca,
35:29
Speaker 1: she needs to thank getting, to get down on her
35:32
Speaker 1: knees and thank her for saving Max, because if she
35:34
Speaker 1: hadn't have been there, Max wouldn't have any chance at all.
35:38
Speaker 1: And so since the she saved him, she saved Max.
35:42
Speaker 1: There's only a handful of people that knew the Rebecca
35:44
Speaker 1: saved Max, and with the immediate family members and who
35:47
Speaker 1: are aware of it, first responders and healthcare providers at
35:50
Speaker 1: the hospital, so we ruled out first responders. We ruled
35:54
Speaker 1: out healthcare providers at the hospital. That left us with
35:57
Speaker 1: a half dozen members of the family were aware of
36:01
Speaker 1: Rebecca saving Max, and in the beginning we had three
36:06
Speaker 1: of those people at the mansion that evening. Hold On,
36:10
Speaker 1: hold on, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I've gotta flow
36:13
Speaker 1: chart in front of me with me veteran trial lawyer,
36:15
Speaker 1: Keith Greer, who actually represented Rebecca's the Hawes family. That
36:20
Speaker 1: was a fight to the Finnish, Keith Greer, and you
36:22
Speaker 1: were triumphant, Keith Greer, trial lawyer. Keith. You're saying that
36:26
Speaker 1: the phrase the phraseology on the door, which I think
36:30
Speaker 1: was wittning some like pain or something black black acrylic paint.
36:34
Speaker 1: Who would write that on their door? Anyway? Hold On,
36:36
Speaker 1: I got a lot of thoughts colliding in my head.
36:39
Speaker 1: It said she saved him? Can he save her? Can
36:44
Speaker 1: you save her? On the guest bedroom door in which
36:48
Speaker 1: Rebecca the haws rope, her hanging rope was tied to
36:53
Speaker 1: a bed strung across the room and over the balcony
36:56
Speaker 1: to wait her down. Okay, so you're saying process of elimination.
37:01
Speaker 1: Who knew that somebody saved somebody. Only a few people,
37:06
Speaker 1: the family and the first responders, So you did process
37:09
Speaker 1: of elimination. Several of those people were at the hospital
37:12
Speaker 1: all night. Dana Shack n I, Zach, Max's mom, Jonah
37:17
Speaker 1: shack n I, Nina was back and forth, I think
37:20
Speaker 1: to the hospital, the twin sister, Okay, the first responders.
37:25
Speaker 1: I don't think they snuck in the house and did it. Okay,
37:28
Speaker 1: take it from there, Keith, Yes, Initially we had an
37:31
Speaker 1: eyewitness that put Denis shack Knight at the mansion that night,
37:36
Speaker 1: and he was very Adam and spoke to him several times.
37:40
Speaker 1: He was sure it was not Nina, the twin sister,
37:42
Speaker 1: because they're not identical twins Um and so he and
37:46
Speaker 1: he said it was definitely Dina. So I had Nina
37:49
Speaker 1: there at the scene. She fits the the was a
37:54
Speaker 1: part of that group that knew that Rebecca had saved
37:56
Speaker 1: Max Um and the motive here, you know, with being
38:00
Speaker 1: you know, jealousy, perhaps with Rebecca, perhaps blaming Um, Rebecca
38:06
Speaker 1: for Adam's fall in the first place. You know, in
38:08
Speaker 1: a bit of rage, we're thinking we've got we've got
38:11
Speaker 1: a very upset mother with a motive there at the scene.
38:15
Speaker 1: Um Nina admitted she was there. She said that she
38:19
Speaker 1: had gone by that evening, you know, to see Rebecca,
38:23
Speaker 1: and we had Adam there staying the night. And so
38:26
Speaker 1: initially we had all three of those folks there, and
38:29
Speaker 1: based on the facts, we had attempted to put together
38:32
Speaker 1: the scenario of what happened, how this all worked out.
38:34
Speaker 1: We originally thought the confrontation, the first confrontation was between
38:39
Speaker 1: Dina and Rebecca, and then Adam awoke and joined in,
38:46
Speaker 1: and the three of them did this together. Okay, that's
38:48
Speaker 1: a little far fetched to me that you think you're
38:51
Speaker 1: going to get it. They Max's mom and her twin sister,
38:55
Speaker 1: and the tugboat captain brother to all gree to commit
39:01
Speaker 1: murder and fake it to look like a suicide. And
39:05
Speaker 1: not a single forensic clue such as fingerprints, fibers, nothing
39:12
Speaker 1: like that was found to point to any of them
39:16
Speaker 1: in the murder room. But what can you tell me?
39:19
Speaker 1: I noticed a crazy question, but why does Rebecca, as
39:23
Speaker 1: the hall's minstrel cycle have anything to do with this?
39:26
Speaker 1: That's the evidence of Rebecca left behind was key to
39:29
Speaker 1: putting the salt together. Um in the master bedroom shower
39:36
Speaker 1: there is a drop of what's believed to be Rebecca's blood.
39:40
Speaker 1: The police did not test it to confirm it. It
39:42
Speaker 1: was assumed it was her blood, So that evening we
39:45
Speaker 1: believed that the whole process started when she was showering.
39:48
Speaker 1: She turned off the shower long enough for a drop
39:50
Speaker 1: of minstrel lets it drop on the bottom of the shower.
39:54
Speaker 1: Then somehow she winds up on the other side of
39:57
Speaker 1: the house, um and up half the floor and the
40:01
Speaker 1: gain in the guest bedroom area with a bathtel on
40:05
Speaker 1: and her cell phone, and and right at the entrance
40:09
Speaker 1: to the bedroom to the guest bedroom there are four
40:12
Speaker 1: more drops of menstrual blood on on the floor on
40:17
Speaker 1: the carpet right next to where the towel that she
40:21
Speaker 1: was wearing is dropped on the floor piled up right
40:24
Speaker 1: next to these four spots. So we interpret that as
40:26
Speaker 1: being she stood there in front of Adam long enough
40:29
Speaker 1: to have the four drops hit the floor. Then things
40:32
Speaker 1: went south and she attempted to escape, dropped the towel,
40:36
Speaker 1: screamed for help that was heard by the next door neighbor,
40:40
Speaker 1: and at that point in time she was bashed on
40:42
Speaker 1: the back of the head four times, rendered at least
40:44
Speaker 1: partially unconscious, and then the scenario continued from there. Do
40:48
Speaker 1: we have abrasions on the back of her head. She No,
40:53
Speaker 1: she has very very thick hair, because she had very
40:56
Speaker 1: thick hair, which wouldn't give it the superficial injuries. We
41:01
Speaker 1: think she was hit after she tempted to escape and
41:03
Speaker 1: screamed for help and he needed to shut her up.
41:07
Speaker 1: He panicked. H He stayed in an interview that he
41:11
Speaker 1: had a history of panic attacks. He stated it was
41:14
Speaker 1: within airplanes. Um, but it sounds like it was a
41:18
Speaker 1: panic reaction. As you know, she's sprinting away from him,
41:23
Speaker 1: screaming and he hit her from behind on the right side,
41:26
Speaker 1: up the right side of her head to shut her up.
41:28
Speaker 1: Was there any physical evidence of uh an injury on
41:31
Speaker 1: the right side of her head? Yeah, four up the
41:33
Speaker 1: lil hembridge is um all on the upper right side
41:37
Speaker 1: of her head. That's not really really consistent with a hanging.
41:41
Speaker 1: So you're right. What about a knife found with her
41:45
Speaker 1: first of all? Yes, No, Joseph Scott Morgan, Can forensics
41:50
Speaker 1: experts tell the difference between minstrel blood and free flowing
41:54
Speaker 1: blood like from a cut. Yes, Okay. Well, I can't
41:58
Speaker 1: believe you answered it in one word. Okay, that's kind
42:00
Speaker 1: of a damn. Don't you dare me? Yeah, you showed me. Okay,
42:08
Speaker 1: So we know that is minstrual blood. Uh four drops
42:12
Speaker 1: on the She had an I U D and so
42:16
Speaker 1: it is. You know, it's blood from her vagina. We
42:21
Speaker 1: know that's the source. And if it's full menstrual blood,
42:24
Speaker 1: it was never tested. They tested and confirmed it was
42:26
Speaker 1: her blood. The only source of blood is the blood
42:29
Speaker 1: from her vagina, which was confirmed on autopsy that she
42:32
Speaker 1: had the blood pooling in her vagina um. But but
42:37
Speaker 1: it was never tested to determined you know it was
42:39
Speaker 1: it full menstrual cycle blood? Was it something related to
42:42
Speaker 1: the I U D. All we know is it was
42:44
Speaker 1: blood coming from her vagina and there was no trauma,
42:47
Speaker 1: no trauma. But there's a difference between that and free
42:51
Speaker 1: flowing blood. Let me ask you another question, Keith Grew,
42:56
Speaker 1: What about a state knife covered in blood? What can
42:59
Speaker 1: you tell me Abo that where was it and where
43:02
Speaker 1: the blood come from? Yeah, this was the most shocking
43:04
Speaker 1: piece of evidence in the case. And we didn't figure fact,
43:09
Speaker 1: I didn't figure it out. It was our blood splatter
43:12
Speaker 1: expert Lisa de Mayo, um, she looked at the pictures
43:15
Speaker 1: of a steak knife, just a standard table steak knife,
43:19
Speaker 1: had a black handle with three rivets on the handle,
43:23
Speaker 1: and and the police had noticed that there was the
43:25
Speaker 1: bottom rivet closest to the base of the handle was
43:27
Speaker 1: read on both sides was red and they thought it
43:31
Speaker 1: was blood. They tested it it was in fact blood,
43:34
Speaker 1: so so the sheriff had actually confirmed there was blood
43:37
Speaker 1: on the rivets on both sides of the handle, but
43:41
Speaker 1: nobody took it a step forward to see if their
43:43
Speaker 1: blood on all the way around the handle. And our
43:45
Speaker 1: expert Lisa de Mayo, said, we need to go down
43:47
Speaker 1: to the evidence of locker and look at this, and
43:50
Speaker 1: we did. And when we pulled that out and she
43:52
Speaker 1: showed me what she found, my stomach just flipped because
43:57
Speaker 1: it was clear that that you had blood all the
44:00
Speaker 1: way around and the only source of blood being her vagina,
44:02
Speaker 1: means she was sexually assaulted with the handle of that
44:06
Speaker 1: state knife. And and that, I mean, I think anybody
44:10
Speaker 1: thinking about suicide, if they had any doubt at all,
44:14
Speaker 1: that would throw it over the top. There's also there's
44:16
Speaker 1: no fingerprints on this knife anywhere so whoever inserted that
44:21
Speaker 1: into her wiped the princes off and uh, it just
44:25
Speaker 1: it seems beyond reason that a woman would violate herself
44:31
Speaker 1: with the handle of the knife, you know, and then
44:33
Speaker 1: and then wipe it off along with all the other
44:36
Speaker 1: and just so overwhelmed and Bremner or high profile Seattle lawyer,
44:41
Speaker 1: Uh that this is as of right now officially is
44:45
Speaker 1: still gained a suicide. It's it's just outrageous and unbelievable.
44:49
Speaker 1: There was so much there to say it was something
44:51
Speaker 1: else and all they needed to do, Nancy, as you
44:53
Speaker 1: well know, it's just investigating. I mean, why are families
44:56
Speaker 1: put in positions like the z how family of having
44:59
Speaker 1: to investigate this case themselves civilly and uh it's finally
45:02
Speaker 1: of justice. But it shouldn't have happ to be done
45:04
Speaker 1: this way. No, it should have been need to reopen
45:07
Speaker 1: And to you, Joseph Scott Morgan, you're on the outside
45:10
Speaker 1: looking in, as am I with this evidence. Don't you
45:13
Speaker 1: think it at least warrants a grand jury investigation for
45:17
Speaker 1: criminal charges? Absolutely it does, Nancy, there there is you know,
45:22
Speaker 1: obviously in the civil in civil context, there is a
45:24
Speaker 1: preponderance of evidence, but I could go further than that
45:27
Speaker 1: and state that the evidence, the evidence that we see
45:31
Speaker 1: before us, it would give a reasonable person pause to
45:34
Speaker 1: consider everything, and certainly not the first thing that you're
45:37
Speaker 1: gonna jump to is going to be suicide. It's beyond
45:41
Speaker 1: the pale. In all of my years of experience, and
45:43
Speaker 1: there's been other people that have said this about this case,
45:45
Speaker 1: I have never ever worked a case in New Orleans
45:49
Speaker 1: or Atlanta, or been involved in a case doing a
45:53
Speaker 1: follow up investigation involving these sets of circumstances surrounding a
45:58
Speaker 1: suicide involving a woman. This thing is so complex that
46:03
Speaker 1: it is mind blowing that someone in the forensic community
46:07
Speaker 1: that is working for a governmental agency or law enforcement
46:11
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to look into this further. Take a listen
46:14
Speaker 1: to Rebecca's sister, Mary the how Loner, speaking after Keith
46:20
Speaker 1: Greer wins this incredible civil verdict. She demands justice. Listen,
46:25
Speaker 1: no matter what happens, Rebecca, I can't get her back,
46:28
Speaker 1: our family can't get her back. But hopefully people will
46:32
Speaker 1: know that she didn't commit suicide, and she was murdered
46:36
Speaker 1: and she doesn't deserve to be treated the way the
46:38
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department tweeted her, what would you say the sheriff
46:43
Speaker 1: board today, I would like you to be honest, to
46:49
Speaker 1: be truthful, and to reopen the case and investigated as
46:53
Speaker 1: a murder. Now the tugboat captain brother who was alone
46:56
Speaker 1: at the home that night, at the mansion with Rebecca's
47:00
Speaker 1: a house now now dead, Adam Shack and I has
47:04
Speaker 1: his own response. Listen to what he says after the
47:08
Speaker 1: civil verdict against him, one by Keith Greer. Here's Adam Shat,
47:13
Speaker 1: the same person I was inn when this happened in
47:17
Speaker 1: when they filled the lawsuit that I thought, well, I
47:21
Speaker 1: just wanted to turn around and sue for defamation because
47:23
Speaker 1: I don't think you should be able to say something
47:25
Speaker 1: like that in public about somebody, uh for fifty bucks
47:29
Speaker 1: or whatever it costs completely made up. But hopefully it's
47:34
Speaker 1: eventually gonna come back to after a reversal, a defamation suit,
47:38
Speaker 1: a malicious prosecution suit, uh, all stuff like that. But
47:43
Speaker 1: like I said, I'm not worried about it. I'm proud
47:45
Speaker 1: of the case. We made a lot worse things have
47:48
Speaker 1: happened to a lot better people, so this is nothing
47:50
Speaker 1: to me. I'm disappointed, but I got plenty of fighting me.
47:54
Speaker 1: I got plenty of health, I got married, I got
47:57
Speaker 1: lots of good friends, I got family and uh who
48:00
Speaker 1: I was worried about me from? You know, family and
48:02
Speaker 1: everything else is just this ain't nothing. Adam Shatny, the
48:04
Speaker 1: tugboat fiction writer brother, is not a person of interest.
48:09
Speaker 1: He is not a suspect. Does a matter of fact,
48:12
Speaker 1: this case is still officially a suicide. But let me
48:16
Speaker 1: ask you, Keith Greers, of how family lawyer has Mr
48:20
Speaker 1: shack and I Adam Shackny, the tugboat captain brother. Has
48:24
Speaker 1: he filed a defamation lawsuit? No? You know, as I
48:27
Speaker 1: commented and torked to that there thing is malicious winning.
48:31
Speaker 1: You know, that's in order to have any type of claim,
48:35
Speaker 1: that has to be a proof and juria has to
48:37
Speaker 1: come back and say he didn't do it. You know,
48:39
Speaker 1: there's no judgment against him that he prevails. Um. You know,
48:43
Speaker 1: when when you file something with court, it's a privilege
48:46
Speaker 1: a document. Those are privileged statements that jury looks at them,
48:49
Speaker 1: makes a ruling when you win. Um, there's no cause
48:54
Speaker 1: of action. You know, he's just blown smoke. Um went
49:00
Speaker 1: off on a rant. I thought if his attorneys were
49:02
Speaker 1: very happy he was doing. Why do you say that?
49:04
Speaker 1: He just you know, he pushed his attorney out of
49:06
Speaker 1: the wind and went to the mic. I saw the
49:07
Speaker 1: look on Dan Webb's face. Um. I think they did
49:11
Speaker 1: a good job of keeping him under control. During the trial.
49:14
Speaker 1: It seemed like there was always somebody with him. He
49:16
Speaker 1: was always dressed nice, He was, you know, very quiet.
49:20
Speaker 1: And then after the verdict came back, you know, we
49:22
Speaker 1: showed up in jeans and a T shirt and banana
49:25
Speaker 1: yellow tennis shoes and spiked tear and started spouting off
49:29
Speaker 1: what appeared to be to me anyway, just out of control. Um.
49:34
Speaker 1: I think that's I think we saw the true Adam.
49:35
Speaker 1: I think we saw the true Adam at that point.
49:37
Speaker 1: After Keith Greer wins a civil suit in the Rebecca
49:42
Speaker 1: is a Hall case, they can the San Diego County
49:46
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department has a long, let's just say, meeting with
49:51
Speaker 1: Keith Greer, the lawyer, and they have just announced their
49:55
Speaker 1: plan to reopen the investigation into the disturbing a mysterious
50:02
Speaker 1: death at the Coronato mansion of this beautiful young girl,
50:06
Speaker 1: Rebecca the Haw Is it real, Keith? Are they really
50:10
Speaker 1: reopening the investigation. I think it is real. I think
50:13
Speaker 1: they have to. I think with the public scrutiny that's
50:16
Speaker 1: going on here, they don't have any other choice. And
50:19
Speaker 1: I think that that public scrutiny will also result in
50:21
Speaker 1: them making the right choice, because if I think if
50:24
Speaker 1: they came back and said, no, we're holding by our
50:26
Speaker 1: decision and a suicide, I think the public outcry would
50:30
Speaker 1: be incredibly loud. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend.
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