Latest / The Financial Exchange Show / Airlines had a wild ride in 2024. Will 2025 be better for travelers?

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Airlines had a wild ride in 2024. Will 2025 be better for travelers? · The Financial Exchange Show

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  Speaker 1: Armstrong and Mark Vandetti.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, good morning, and welcome back to one of the
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: final shows of the financial exchange prior to New Year
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  Speaker 2: twenty twenty five.
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  Speaker 3: And we've got markets that are ugly out there.
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  Speaker 2: The NASDAC off now three hundred ninety seven points, close
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  Speaker 2: to two percent, the SMP down eighty three points one
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  Speaker 2: and a third percent, and the Dow Jones Industrial Average
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  Speaker 2: off four hundred and twenty seven points or one full
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  Speaker 2: percentage point. The Russell two thousand, if you're looking at it,
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  Speaker 2: off about one and a half percent yield on the ten.
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  Speaker 2: Your Treasury moving up slightly again to four point five
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  Speaker 2: to nine percent. And Mark, I don't know, is there
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  Speaker 2: a big economic data point of jobs report that we've
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  Speaker 2: all been waiting for this Friday, December twenty seventh, Where
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  Speaker 2: is everybody just working off that Christmas hangover on this Friday.
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  Speaker 2: I don't see much out there that would be ten
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  Speaker 2: actually causing this sell off, so I tend to not
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  Speaker 2: read too much.
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  Speaker 4: No, Well, there's the tariff story that we led with
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  Speaker 4: in the last hour, and we might talk about again
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  Speaker 4: in this hour. It could be dawning on people that
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  Speaker 4: these terrifts if implemented as is being suggested by the
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  Speaker 4: incoming administration, could be really disruptive in the short term.
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  Speaker 4: Maybe that realization is dawning. I don't know, Mike, I'm
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  Speaker 4: just grasping it.
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  Speaker 5: Straw.
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  Speaker 4: Like you said, last hour movements day to day tend
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  Speaker 4: to be pretty random.
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  Speaker 2: They do, and regardless I think that, yeah, they don't
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  Speaker 2: read too much into the single day move I have
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  Speaker 2: a tough time believing that everyone woke up on Friday
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  Speaker 2: December twenty seventh said, oh God, there's gonna be terriffs
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  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five. Trump better sell I better sell
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  Speaker 2: all my stocks. I forgot about that a month and
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  Speaker 2: a half ago when we learned that don't.
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  Speaker 4: But the rhetoric on behalf of people that do the
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  Speaker 4: purchasing on for companies that use a lot of intermediate
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  Speaker 4: imported goods in their processes, the rhetoric is heated up.
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  Speaker 5: It's more alarm.
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  Speaker 4: This could just be Bloomberg's agenda, and they have one
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  Speaker 4: like everybody else does. But the the level of panic
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  Speaker 4: seems to be escalating.
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  Speaker 2: I want to talk about one area of the market
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  Speaker 2: that has had an outsized year this year, airline stocks,
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  Speaker 2: in spite of let's see a door plug blowing off
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  Speaker 2: in Alaska Airlines, flight Delta having to cancel thousands of
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  Speaker 2: flights due to a massive IT outage.
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  Speaker 3: Spirit and Jet Blue.
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  Speaker 2: Airlines getting blocked in terms of their merger deal in
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  Speaker 2: Southwest facing an activist investor that they've had to change
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  Speaker 2: things on the SMP Supercomposite Airlines Index, I don't know
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  Speaker 2: what makes it a supercomposite, but nonetheless that's jumped sixty
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  Speaker 2: percent in twenty twenty four, compared with just a twenty
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  Speaker 2: seven percent gain for the overall S and P five hundred,
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  Speaker 2: and you see airlines out there that have had a
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  Speaker 2: hell of a year. United Airlines in particular top performer
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  Speaker 2: for the year, up one hundred and forty four percent
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  Speaker 2: this year, making it the fourth biggest gain in the
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  Speaker 2: S and P five hundred. I don't follow United Airlines
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  Speaker 2: particularly closely. I don't know what caused that in particular,
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  Speaker 2: but you have seen a trend in travel this year
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  Speaker 2: and last year of folks saying they're making up. You know,
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  Speaker 2: it was the making up for last time during COVID
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  Speaker 2: if I couldn't travel.
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  Speaker 3: But there's been a continued push through.
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  Speaker 2: Twenty twenty four of not only do I want to travel,
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  Speaker 2: but I want to travel in comfort.
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  Speaker 3: I want to pay for that larger seat.
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  Speaker 2: I might be willing to shell out for first class,
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  Speaker 2: I'm certainly going to pay the extra baggage fees. And
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  Speaker 2: that has benefited those carriers that have that type of
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  Speaker 2: service more than those that don't. So the Delta's United
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  Speaker 2: Americans have had profits that are expanding and growing rapidly,
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  Speaker 2: and some like Southwest, were somewhat left behind on these trends.
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  Speaker 2: Hence they're facing a bit of an activist situation looking back.
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  Speaker 2: Any highlights for you from the from the airline sector
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  Speaker 2: in general in twenty twenty four certainly had some regulatory
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  Speaker 2: shifts of the last few years from the bind administration
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  Speaker 2: requiring more disclosure on fees and things like that. Anything
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  Speaker 2: that I didn't mention that's catching your eye in the.
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  Speaker 4: Sector, No, not one that I follow that closely either,
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  Speaker 4: to be perfectly honest, it's just striking to me. Every
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  Speaker 4: holiday TSA sets records for people passing through security volume,
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  Speaker 4: however you want to measure, it sets records, and at
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  Speaker 4: the same time, negative consumer sentiment was setting records. People's
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  Speaker 4: behavior over the past couple of years, whether you look
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  Speaker 4: at stuff they're buying or experiences that they're buying, is
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  Speaker 4: at odds with what consumer sentiment surveys have been suggesting.
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  Speaker 4: And I don't know quite how to explain that.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so Southwest.
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  Speaker 2: The interesting piece on Southwest, I think will be the
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  Speaker 2: transformation that they undergo in twenty twenty five. They are
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  Speaker 2: clearly attempting a shift away from their pure play cost
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  Speaker 2: no frills type plan that they had there that worked
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  Speaker 2: for them for years.
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  Speaker 3: But what they're experiencing this year is looked.
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  Speaker 2: When when you have as many people as you do
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  Speaker 2: this year shelling out for extra fees and you don't
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  Speaker 2: have any extra fees, you don't benefit quite as much
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  Speaker 2: as the United Airlines. And so they've already announced plans
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  Speaker 2: to do away with their seating method. So if you
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  Speaker 2: liked the free for all of Southwest seating, that's going
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  Speaker 2: away with assigned seating coming in July, it looks like,
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  Speaker 2: and that's coming from Elliott Investment Management, who's probably going
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  Speaker 2: to look at other things like baggage fees, like more
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  Speaker 2: change fees, and you're I think, once again, like many
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  Speaker 2: other industries, you know, like the bank, when you look
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  Speaker 2: at I'm going to try and make a maybe a
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  Speaker 2: weird comparison here that's a little bit drawn out. But
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  Speaker 2: when you look at the top five banks, let's call
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  Speaker 2: it Bank of America, JP, Morgan Chase, Wells, Fargo, and City.
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  Speaker 2: Let's just look at the four because Goldmen Saxs is
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  Speaker 2: a little bitff. But can you point to anything that
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  Speaker 2: truly differentiates any of them versus the.
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  Speaker 3: Other as just the average everyday person.
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  Speaker 2: When you look at Bank of America versus JP, Morgan Chase,
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  Speaker 2: they do anything differently in your mind?
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  Speaker 4: Oh jeez, I have to invoke my usual uh when
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  Speaker 4: I don't know what I'm talking about answer, which is
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  Speaker 4: I don't look at them closely enough.
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  Speaker 3: You can tell as a retail consumer.
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  Speaker 4: Because from that experiment, sheets look different. They all have
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  Speaker 4: their sure strengths. But as I don't, I don't use
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  Speaker 4: any of them.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know what I think my takeaway would be.
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  Speaker 2: When you have an industry that is as heavily regulated
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  Speaker 2: as banking or as you're talking about with the airline industry,
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  Speaker 2: there seems to be only one model that works if
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  Speaker 2: you want to be one of the largest airlines out there,
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  Speaker 2: which is you have to cater to every customer, you
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  Speaker 2: have to have a basically a seating chart and a
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  Speaker 2: way of flying that looks just like every other carrier.
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  Speaker 2: And Southwest for years didn't didn't uh move to that method,
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  Speaker 2: and it's and it's hurting them now. And so when
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  Speaker 2: I look at now United versus American versus Delta, like.
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  Speaker 3: I have a preference for Delta, I've had the best
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  Speaker 3: experiences with them.
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  Speaker 2: But can I really point to any differences between them
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  Speaker 2: and American or United? No, I really can't. Jeff lou
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  Speaker 2: I used to be able to. Today I think they
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  Speaker 2: look exactly like them. And Southwest, the last one that
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  Speaker 2: truly had a different offering, in my mind, is also changing.
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  Speaker 5: What are you supposed to at Delta? We fly backwards.
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  Speaker 5: It's more fun.
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  Speaker 3: No, But I mean you don't think that. I think
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  Speaker 3: that's Southwest.
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  Speaker 2: That's a genuinely different offering, a differentiated offering there. Of
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  Speaker 2: We don't charge change fees, we don't charge.
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  Speaker 5: Check back tinkering.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we we offer a generally lower price point. We
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  Speaker 2: don't offer our flights on third party UH platforms for
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  Speaker 2: booking because we want to. We don't want to pay them,
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  Speaker 2: and we want to deliver the cheapest product to you,
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  Speaker 2: and that model kind of broke down of the last
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  Speaker 2: few years.
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  Speaker 3: It's not work in the same way.
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  Speaker 2: And the benefits of a Delta where they do have
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  Speaker 2: you if you want to fly Delta and not choose
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  Speaker 2: your seat and not pay for a bag, then you
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  Speaker 2: can buy a really rule.
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  Speaker 4: Change so often I think for retail folks doing like
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  Speaker 4: leave your travel unless you're a business customer and you
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  Speaker 4: like your you know, Emperor's Club perks. For most of
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  Speaker 4: us non business traveling consumers, we just go buy price right,
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  Speaker 4: price and price and availability. I gotta be in Charlotte
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  Speaker 4: day X by noon, and you know, price American and
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  Speaker 4: I'll price Jet Blue.
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  Speaker 5: I don't even know if they fly into Douglas, but.
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  Speaker 3: Most of us do. Like, yes, you're right that the
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  Speaker 3: vast majority of us do.
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  Speaker 2: However, I think the clear message from Southwest is that
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  Speaker 2: there's enough, and from United and Delta who are just
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  Speaker 2: raking in profits, is that there's enough of the other
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  Speaker 2: people that might.
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  Speaker 3: Be traveling for business or for leisure who are.
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  Speaker 2: Saying, no, I'll pay the extra few hundred bucks for
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  Speaker 2: that extra perk, and it is going right to our
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  Speaker 2: bottom lines. In a way that Spirit and others are
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  Speaker 2: not finding that they compete with. There's other advantages they
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  Speaker 2: have too. Right in the airline industry, there's just so
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  Speaker 2: much advantage to massive scale that that's probably.
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  Speaker 3: The most important factor. But these other things where to me.
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  Speaker 2: Delta has the option if you want to be the
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  Speaker 2: ultra sheep flyer, and oftentimes is the lowest price point.
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  Speaker 2: But if you want to fly in luxury to Europe
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  Speaker 2: as well in first class for thousands upon thousands of dollars,
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  Speaker 2: you can do so at Delta, and you really can't
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  Speaker 2: at the likes of Southwest Spirit or JetBlue.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, let's take a quick break. When we come back,
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  Speaker 3: we'll have some trivia for you. Next. You're on the
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  Speaker 3: Financial Exchange.
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  Speaker 6: All right time now for some trivia on the Financial
• 11:16
  Speaker 6: Exchange and in honor of Mike being in Chicago, let's
• 11:21
  Speaker 6: go back in time to this day. In two thousand
• 11:24
  Speaker 6: and two, Chicago, starring renesel Wegger, Richard Gear and Catherine
• 11:29
  Speaker 6: Zada Jones, premiered at theaters in New York City and
• 11:31
  Speaker 6: Los Angeles. Chicago would go on to win Best Picture
• 11:35
  Speaker 6: at the two thousand and three Academy Awards. Today's question,
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: just name one of the movies that Chicago beat out
• 11:43
  Speaker 6: for Best Picture at the two thousand and three Academy Awards.
• 11:47
  Speaker 6: Just name one movie that Chicago beat out. I'll give
• 11:51
  Speaker 6: you a hint. Who was one of the Lord of
• 11:53
  Speaker 6: the Rings movies. Be the third person to Texas at
• 11:57
  Speaker 6: six one seven three six two five with the correct answer,
• 12:01
  Speaker 6: and you'll win a Financial Exchange Show t shirt. The
• 12:03
  Speaker 6: third correct response will be our winner. See the complete
• 12:06
  Speaker 6: contest rules at Financial Exchange Show dot com.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: We don't give hints here on the Financial Exchange Bend.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure what you're doing there.
• 12:17
  Speaker 6: I whispered it, No one heard, not allowed.
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  Speaker 3: How much?
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  Speaker 2: How much more did you spend this year on Christmas
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  Speaker 2: bend than than last year.
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  Speaker 3: Mark.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not asking you to just specifically, because I know
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  Speaker 2: you didn't do quite as much holiday shopping as those
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  Speaker 2: with kids their own do, But was it a big
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  Speaker 2: bump up year over year for you?
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  Speaker 6: Absolutely? Because now my son's three, so he's in that
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  Speaker 6: prime age of like starting to understand Christmas. So I
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  Speaker 6: felt like I had to go extra big for him.
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  Speaker 6: And yeah, I probably went about five hundred dollars over
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  Speaker 6: what I would normally spend.
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  Speaker 2: Well, that seems to be the trend across the country.
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  Speaker 2: Amidst all the bad market sell off data today, we
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  Speaker 2: did get some data from from MasterCard this morning, who
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: puts together these estimates on overall holiday shopping that they're
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: seeing and their quotes here saying that holiday spending rows
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: three point eight percent, apparel in restaurants leading the way
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  Speaker 2: in those categories in particular compared to last year. And
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  Speaker 2: that is looking if you're trying to judge, like how
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  Speaker 2: good is three point eight percent? But it's pretty it's
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  Speaker 2: pretty darn solid. Given this does not adjust for inflation,
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  Speaker 2: but it does insinuate what would that be marked like
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  Speaker 2: a one to one and a half percent increase.
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  Speaker 3: In actual goods purchased.
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  Speaker 2: Given where inflation has been I don't know where, like
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  Speaker 2: toy in particular, overall inflation, that puts in a pretty
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  Speaker 2: big increase. That's compared to only a three point one
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  Speaker 2: percent increase last year, so that would be twenty twenty
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  Speaker 2: three versus twenty twenty two. Online shopping, as I mentioned,
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  Speaker 2: led the way with a six point seven percent growth rate,
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  Speaker 2: which is accelerating from last year, which is surprising. In
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  Speaker 2: Store spending improved two though that was up a good
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  Speaker 2: two point nine percent. In store spending last five days
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  Speaker 2: in particular of the holiday season accounted for ten percent
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  Speaker 2: of the overall total spending, So we are good procrastinators,
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  Speaker 2: as I think everyone knows, and that apparel sales saw
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: strength this year, with sales up three point six percent.
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  Speaker 2: Restaurants remained very strong here. This is an interesting number
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  Speaker 2: to me because you do hear about a bunch of
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: restaurants that are struggling, but overall restaurants spending remained up
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  Speaker 2: a good six point three percent in this holiday spending year.
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  Speaker 2: So I mean, my main takeaways from this would be
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  Speaker 2: pretty simple. Consumers are not one bit concerned about their
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: financial wellbeing. They probably should be, because our next story
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  Speaker 2: is about how those same consumers, more than a third
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: of them, racked.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: Up debt in order to do what I just described.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: The average amount, the average balance probably on those credit cards,
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  Speaker 2: being one one and eighty one dollars. This is according
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: to a survey from lending Tree. I'm not really sure
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  Speaker 2: what that means. I think what I'm taking this to
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: mean is that when you ask people, hey, are you
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: racking up debt to do this holiday shopping season, what
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: it probably means is, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I put a bunch of stuff on the credit card.
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  Speaker 2: And I have no means of actually paying that off
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: next month when it comes due. Because if you just
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I mean I put a bunch of I put more
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: than a thousand dollars on my credit card this holiday
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  Speaker 2: shopping season, but I plan on paying it off.
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  Speaker 3: When that statement balance is done.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing if you're responding yes to this survey, then
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: you're saying that, yeah, I racked it up and I'm
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: planning on not paying it off come January, which is
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: pretty consistent with what we see on average. I think
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: on average, about half of credit card owners carry a
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: balance on a month to month basis, which brings me
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: to my overall conclusion regarding credit cards, which this is
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: one that I've evolved over the years. Dave Ramsey and
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: the likes have always said, like, you shouldn't have a
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: credit card, just cut the thing up, don't use it,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: because it's more of a problem than it is a benefit.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And I felt differently from the beginning. I've had a
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: credit card since I was eighteen years old. I had
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: a really small limit on that thing. I paid it
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: off every month, I build my credit score, I got points.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: The more I.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Have studied this subject, the more I've become convinced that
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: the average person just probably shouldn't use a credit card
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: at all, because most of them carry a balance at
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: some point or another and really fundamentally misunderstand the power
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: of a twenty plus percent interest rate on those things
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: it is. I'm not saying that we should ban credit cards.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I am very much free market on this one. I
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: think the fee restrictions that the Biden administration tried to
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: put in through the CFPB are ridiculous. If you haven't
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: seen these, it's like late fee restrictions and all sorts
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: of things that credit cards are being restricted on now.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I think that's all ridiculous. You should be able to
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: have a credit card if you want to. But my
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: conclusion is that the vast majority of people just don't
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  Speaker 2: know how to manage it and end up screwing themselves
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  Speaker 2: from a financial perspective.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, that horses out of the barn.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, what are you gonna do which on which one?
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  Speaker 5: Like the yeah, the charge card?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, unless we're going to take our DeLorean back to
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: nineteen fifty five or whenever the first charge card was introduced.
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: H Yeah, how do you stop people unless unless their
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: credit score stops them from using credit?
• 17:25
  Speaker 5: How do you stop it? Credit? Non revolving? What's it revolving?
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: Or no, that's non revolving?
• 17:31
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, stuff stuff that's not secured and that you're
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: paying through the nose to finance.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I think here's the overall lesson for me though, Like
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I feel as though there are a lot of parents
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: out there who have said, like, no, you should have
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: a credit card as a as a teenager or a
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: you know, young twenty year old, like it's a great
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: way to build credit. And my conclusion is that for
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: my own kids, I'm not given that that message. Like
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: my message to them is going to be. There are
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: other ways to build credit. Don't use a credit card
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: until you are very certain about the ramifications of using it.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: And again, maybe I'm just.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Being a controlling a controlling parent who's you know, being
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: a helicopter. But the lesson of hey, no use the
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: credit card because it'll build your credit score, that benefit
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: is so far outweighed by the people who you cannot
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: get themselves out of credit card debt that they are
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: just consistently dealing with on a month over month basis
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: that I have. I have turned my tune on that
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: to say that for the average person, that's not good advice.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Don't use a credit card unless until you have your
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: finances well under control, until you have a steady income
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: where you'll know you'll be able to pay off that
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: balance every month. I just don't think that I can
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: really get on board with saying, yeah, young people should
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: be using credit cards and learning how to do that
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: sort of thing. No, you use something else to be
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: able to make payments digitally instead of a credit card,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: or if you are going to use it, then be
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: so certain that you'll be able to pay it off
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: every month that it's not even that it's not even
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: much of a question.
• 19:09
  Speaker 5: Yeah, as a rule, that's probably good advice.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: That's my personal my personal finance, personal family story.
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: I'm going to run with today.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break. When we come back, we're
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: going to have the trivia winner. But then I want
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: to talk about a record number of Americans turning sixty five.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: That has all sorts of implications for our healthcare systems
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: and such, but it also has big implications for the
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: financial services industry. That's next here on the Financial Exchange.
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Bringing the latest financial news straight to your radio every day.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: It's the Financial Exchange on the Financial Exchange Radio Network.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Text US six one seven TRN six to two one
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: three eighty five with your comments and questions about today's show.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: This is the Financial Exchange Rate Network.
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: All right, for Trivia today, I asked you to name
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: just one of the movies Chicago beat out for Best
• 20:09
  Speaker 6: Picture at the two thousand and three Academy Awards. And
• 20:12
  Speaker 6: I gave you a hint that Mike chastised me rightly,
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: so chastise me for and only one of you got
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: that one. But that wasn't the right one. So Joyce
• 20:21
  Speaker 6: from Rowley is going to be our winner. Today because
• 20:24
  Speaker 6: she correctly said The Hours as one of the movies
• 20:28
  Speaker 6: that Chicago beat. Some of the other movies that Chicago
• 20:30
  Speaker 6: beat at the two thousand and three Academy Awards Gangs
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: of New York, The Pianist, and Lord of the Rings
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: The Two Towers. So, like I said, Joyce from Raley
• 20:39
  Speaker 6: will be taking home that Financial Exchange Show t shirt.
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: We play trivia every day here on the Financial Exchange.
• 20:45
  Speaker 6: See complete contest rules at Financial Exchange Show dot com.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: A record number of Americans will be turning sixty five
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five. About four point two million people
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: in the US are forecast to cross that age threshold
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: next year. And look, this is nothing new. This is
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: something that has been forecasted for years. And we're in
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: kind of that peak sixty five zone from now through
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven, where more than four point one million
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: Americans will.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: Hit that age level every year.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: And among other things that it means is it means
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: that a number of people will probably be retiring over
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: the course of the next three years. A huge number
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: of Americans will be retiring or at least evaluating.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: That over the next few years. And for the financial
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: services industry, as a whole.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: There's a big appetite obviously for those retirements because it
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: oftentimes means people looking at and evaluating their four to
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: one case.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: And Mark, I think.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: I want to start right there for those folks that
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: are starting to retire in terms of how they should
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: be thinking about their own retirement plan when they get
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: to that sixty five threshold or whatever that retirement date
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: threshold is. It doesn't necessarily need to be sixty five.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I think most people know at fifty nine and a
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: half you have a lot of options that open up
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: to you. But before we go, you know, there are
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: some job acts to traditional like you know, employee retirement plans,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: but there are also a lot of benefits, and you know,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: coming from that space, you used to work heavily in
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: that space, Mark, maybe you can kind of talk to
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: some of those because for all the criticisms about four
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: to one k's and you know, some people don't really
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: like the system and it limits choices, there are some
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: benefits too that people have to those plans.
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: That exist at the place that they work. Do you
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: mind running through a few of them for me? Yeah.
• 22:32
  Speaker 4: What's typically cited is the protection from creditors people pursuing
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: you for money that the federal law that created and
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: governs four oh one k's affords to four oh one
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: k participants. When you're in that kind of plan, you're
• 22:47
  Speaker 4: called a participant, not an investor, even though we think
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: of ourselves as investors. So if you remain a participant,
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: there might be situations where your assets are protected, whereas
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: under state law, which governs how creditors can get to
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: your assets in an IRA, under state law they might
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: not be. So that's always worth inquiring about, Mike, and
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: I think that's something that you would point out to
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: a client who was asking about pros and cons of
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: staying in your employer plan versus the typical alternative, which
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: is roll over to a traditional IRA, sometimes called a
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: rollover IRA, but legally correct me if I'm wrong, Mike,
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: it's the same thing.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yep, self directed IRA, whatever you want to call it.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: I would also say, look at this stage of life,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: a lot of people are looking for additional guidance, and
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: so unsurprisingly that additional guidance can come in the way
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: of a lot more.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: In the way of fees.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, four one ks aren't necessarily the cheapest option out there,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: and The problem with them is they vary dramatically or
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: four or three B four fifty seven, whatever that retirement
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: plan is. They vary dramatically in terms of cost because
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: they could be provided by any number of carriers and
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: there could be high cost option low cost options in there.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Generally speaking, though, for large employers, the four one K
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: is a relatively inexpensive option when it comes to how
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: you invest your funds as a participant, and almost every
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: option that anyone.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: Is going to, you know, push you into when.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: You retire is probably going to be more expensive because
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: of that, you know, because of a number of different factors.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: It's not always the case, but it's oftentimes.
• 24:16
  Speaker 4: The thing is, sorry, I was gonna say, four oh
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: one k's are designed for accumulation. They're designed for long
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: term savers needs. They don't necessarily fit well with the
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: needs of a say, retiree who will occasionally, maybe not
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: necessarily regularly, be taking money out, who would like to
• 24:35
  Speaker 4: target the fund from which they take money. This is
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: a big ee to me. Four oh one k's might
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: have a money market or stable value, or if you
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: have an option that's been around for a while, it
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: might even be a geck a guaranteed insurance or investment contract.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: But you might not be able to opt to take
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: money just out of the principal preservation, which is a
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: blanket term for all of those things. Sure fund, you
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: might be forced to take your money out pro a
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: little bit from each option, including stock funds, at a
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: potentially inopportune time. So I think it is fair to say,
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: correct me if I'm wrong, guys, that a four oh
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: one K is less flexible in terms of distribution, that is,
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: withdrawal options than an individual account is. By necessity, it's
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: not built for that.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think, look, all these things are just
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: to say that it's the average, it's not always the
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: case one way, or that you got to ask.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: You do have to ask.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: And the thing that I fear is that, you know,
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: the most likely outcome, in my mind, is probably that
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: we just see a continuing surge of money into annuity products,
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: which has already kicked off. Back in twenty twenty two,
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: individual retail annuity sales were less than three hundred billion
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: dollars according to Wink, which is a research firm. Sales
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: are expected to be around four hundred and fifty billion
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: dollars in twenty twenty four and exceed five hundred twenty
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: billion in twenty twenty five. And you know, it's not
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: just that most people are you know that a lot
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: of people are retiring around this time. It's probably also
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: that intra straits are up. But you know a lot
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: of these tend to be very high cost, complex products
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: that people aren't familiar with. I think the key message
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: that I have though, if you're undergoing this transition, I
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: know it can be sometimes scary, right Like you're going
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: from a position of being a saver where you have
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: a reliable income source to maybe replacing some of that
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: with so security.
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: But maybe you're not even planning on that.
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Right away, and there's some fear built into hey, where's
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: my next paycheck going to come from? And I fully
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: recognize that, and that's probably speaks to why some annuity
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: sales have been through the roof over the last few years.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: My word of caution would be evaluate this slowly.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: You generally can't put that money back once you've made
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: a decision like this to roll over your your retirement plan,
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: and so be intentional research your options. And if you're
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: working with a professional out there, you know you should
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: be able to ask some basic questions, what's the cost difference? Uh,
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: you know, what other considerations should I have here? Do you,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: my investment person, actually believe that this is in my
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: best interest, that I should be doing this, and you
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: would you.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Do it for your family member? Things like that.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: These are reasonable questions to ask and reasonable questions to
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: get in writing too, like hey, this is how much
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: you're going to be paying today, This is how much
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: you'll be paying in the future. We demand that for
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: everything else we do, and for some reason, we treat
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: financial services differently. We just we just treat it as
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: this big black box of well, you know there's costs
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: in there, and don't worry about those where you'll pay
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: for them. Some way, we treat it like we do
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: the healthcare industry, and that makes no sense. If you
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: are approaching retirement and you're trying to sort out what
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: the next step is for your probably largest chunk of
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: liquid assets that you own, which is your retirement assets,
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: please give the folks that aren't strong advisory group to
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: call and let us help you evaluate. This will help
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: you determine, Hey, is this in my best interest to
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: move this somewhere else and have it managed by somebody
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: and maybe layer on costs that aren't necessary, or am
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: I best off leaving that where I am or doing
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: something else entirely. If you have haven't had those types
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: of conversations, or if you're scratching your head saying wow,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I did this last year but never really talked about
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: those sorts of things, please give the folks at Armstrong
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group a called let us help you evaluate. The
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: phone numbers eight hundred three nine three four zero zero one.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: We offer consultations throughout that We do them over the
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: phone and via Zoom two. If you have questions then
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: you're not able to make it to one of our offices, which,
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: like I said, we've got twelve of them scattered throughout
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: the New England area. That phone number once again to
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: book your free consultation is eight hundred three nine three
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: four zero zero one.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax into state planning advisors before making
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong make contact you to offer investment
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: advisory services.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Mark and Ben.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I have just devastating news for those who like the
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: you know, the underdog out there might cheer on on criminals.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: The suspected Boston.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: Porch pirate called the Tom Brady of Stealing Packages has
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: finally been arrested and taken down here.
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: So uh goos in Southee. Bad news if.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: You're cheering on the drug addict homeless Robinhood of stealing packages.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Apparently Kerry Flynn, at thirty four, was arigned in South Boston.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know how she got the nickname of tom
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: Brady of Stealing Packages, but I imagine that it was
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: probably pretty humorous.
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: I think it's because she looks like Flogates. She looks
• 29:31
  Speaker 6: like the court sketch of Tom Brady from the Deflakegate trial. Genuinely, Yeah,
• 29:36
  Speaker 6: it was a really bad picture of Tom Brady. She
• 29:41
  Speaker 6: looks like.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: You don't know what I'm talking about if you haven't
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: lived in, you know, a major metro area where this
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: is a serious problem, like having come from Somerville back
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: you know, or lived in Somerville some thirteen years ago.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: When I did not order nearly as much stuff on
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Amazon as I do now, stuff would disappear all the time.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: It was actually rather conne if you ever wanted to
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: get rid of you know, maybe you had some old
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: furniture or or just stuff that was taking up room
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: in the basement, you didn't really have to worry about
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: it because you just put it on the corner and
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: it would be gone in thirty seconds, especially if you
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: posted free stuff on Craigslist. But in terms of porch pirates, yeah,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: if you live in a major city these days, it
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: is a giant pain, and to the point where insurance
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: companies have started issuing porch pirate insurance that you can
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: purchase and avoid or at least get reimbursed from missing packages.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: But this will be a continued issue come twenty twenty five.
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: This sorry, when did we start taking for granted that
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: we could leave valuables out on the front porch? All,
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: I don't know something about how evolved we are and
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: how maybe complacent we've When I was growing up, you
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: would not have done this. You would have been ridiculed
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: and people would have said you deserve it and this
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: and let this be a lesson to you.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Why is there an ax? When did it become this
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: stuff ripped off there?
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: That's the more when did we start to take for
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: granted that valuable things would be safe outside all day.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: This is a.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: Just parked in my hotel. There's a giant sign that
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: said park at your own risk. Take valuables out of
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: the car. That's a pretty universal truth. Like just you know,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: don't expect that you'll be able to just leave stuff.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, and what does that do to Amazon?
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: I'm sure you and Chucks odd have talked about this,
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: But longer term, suppose order kind of breaks down just
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: a little bit. We can't take that privilege for granted anymore.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: What does that do to their little model? I'm just
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: speaking rhetorically or just speculating.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I think it should probably shift in some way shape,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Like it makes sense to me that you know, you
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: would utilize further. The Amazon already has those they do
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: places that you can pick up your packages. And I
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: don't really understand if I lived in Southey or in Somerville,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: there's almost no circumstance where I would say, yeah, I'm
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: gonna feel great about having this ship to my home.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: Why don't I just ship it to one of those
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: package centers instead? I drop by it by way to
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: work instead, or.
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: The post office.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I recogniz eyes there disabled folks in other situations where
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: that's not a possibility. But Amazon should be pushing that harder.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: It's easier for them. They don't have to go door
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: to door. They can drop it off at a central location.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: And if they just started pushing that and just telling
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: people like, hey, we're not going to be responsible if
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: your package you get stolen off your front doorstep, that
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: seems like a reasonable approach from them, and a pretty
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: easy solution, uh, for for the receivers of those packages.
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: Because no way signing for everything works like in the
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: very old days.
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: There's just no way.
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: Given the volume of deliveries.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that wouldn't work at all.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: I can I can barely deal with my once a
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: quarter wine shipment that I get.
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: Y do anither of you guys let them into your
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: garage when you're not.
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: All Sometimes they have just dropped packages off in the garage.
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: And that's what I mean, in the garage. Do you
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: leave it open?
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: Well? Are they getting in?
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: The garage might be open because I'm in the back.
• 32:51
  Speaker 6: You're walking into my garage. I have a front porch.
• 32:54
  Speaker 6: Leave it there. You walked further to go to my
• 32:57
  Speaker 6: garage when you did to my front porch.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: Sorry I wasn't clear. Would you open your garage when
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: you weren't home or would you give them a key
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: of digital key.
• 33:04
  Speaker 5: To open your garage door?
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: Absolutely no, thanks, No, I don't know think I would either.
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: No, I don't think I would either.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Walmart wants to get access to your house and put
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: your groceries in their fridge.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: Though remember that was the thing.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know if they ever launched that, but that
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: was the idea is, Hey, we're gonna have a door
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  Speaker 3: I'm for bitter Stack Roulet. What do you have for
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  Speaker 3: us today? Mark?
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: This is from CNBC Mike and Ben Megamillion's Shackpot. As
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: the headline climbs to one point, I'm gonna round up
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: and call it two billion. Here are the eight states
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: CNBC helpfully points out where you're prized, won't be taxed,
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: and they're just I'm not gonna get into detail here.
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's necessary other than to point out
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: a couple of surprises is to wear lottery winnings at
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: the state level always taxable, right, Mike, at the federal
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: level can't get around that. Okay, So state level, California
• 35:03
  Speaker 4: doesn't tax lottery winnings, which surprised me a little bit
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: because they're big.
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: Is surprising.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the highest tax states in the country saying yeah,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: we're going to exempt lottery winnings.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: That's a weird choice.
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: And Washington has no Washington State has no state income tax,
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: though I think of them as a high tax jurisdiction
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: in other ways, but they don't tax a federal They
• 35:24
  Speaker 4: don't tax, excuse me, lottery winnings either. So a couple
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: surprises on the list. But Mike, it's not like you could,
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: I don't know, change your residence at the last minute
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: if you.
• 35:32
  Speaker 5: Thought you won.
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: I assume they they time keep that as of the
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: time of the drawing, right, I would think.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: And I also don't know.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I assume all of this is taxed as a where
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: you're a resident. But if I go and buy a
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: ticket in Illinois and win, I assume Massachusetts gets the
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: revenue since I'm a resident there, even though I bought
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: the ticket in Illinois.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: That was one of my questions to you. Is one
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: of the state's most prominent financial advisors.
• 35:58
  Speaker 5: So if you don't, if you ask.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: Well, I do not have the least Yeah.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I Unfortunately, if you're looking for expertise on the mega
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: million's jackpot and where you will avoid the most taxes,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I guess I am not the financial advisor for you.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I do not have any clients who are one point
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: one five billion dollar mega million.
• 36:16
  Speaker 4: So can I ask, do you have a philosophy Mike
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: lump sum versus income stream.
• 36:21
  Speaker 5: On these suckers? Have you ever been asked by a
• 36:25
  Speaker 5: lottery you know?
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I here is where my only perspective on this would be,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: because you know, I do get a lot of enjoyment
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: about dreaming up what if I want one of these things.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: I think about all of the stupid financial decisions that
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: I've made over the course of my life, and I
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: just think that I'm generally not any smarter than anybody else.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: And so I think that if I if I were
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: to win something like this, I would want to take
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: the annuity, not because I think it's a better investment
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: deal or anything along those lines, which you could argue
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: it might be because the reason it's one point one
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: five billion dollars. By the way, that's the annuity payment
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: that you could receive, and it's only higher because interest
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: rates are higher right now. They basically buy treasury bonds
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: to pay this thing out over a period of time,
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: and so that's why the jackpots these days have been
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: much higher than previously because interest rates are higher. But
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: I just think that that would limit the stupidity that
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: I could that I could take over the course of
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: winning this money. Of course, nobody actually takes the annuity.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Everyone takes the lump sum, and you know a large
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: portion of them do end up broken. So that would
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: be my way of saying, hey, I will probably make
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: some mistakes with this money. I've made mistakes before in
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: my life, and I'm going to continue to be susceptible
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: to it in the future and thereby not being able
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: to blow it all at once.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: It would be my method.
• 37:43
  Speaker 6: To let me just tell you the state you're in
• 37:45
  Speaker 6: right now, Illinois. This is why you always take the
• 37:47
  Speaker 6: lump sum. Illinois lottery and I think it was twenty
• 37:50
  Speaker 6: fifteen went bankrupt and stopped paying out lottery winners. That's
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: why I would always take the lump sum instead of
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: the annuity.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough perspective there Ben Dow, SMP and NASDAC
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: all strongly in negative territory. As we close out one
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: of the last few trading days of the year, NASDAC
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: lean the way off more than two percent. That is
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: all the time we have, Folks, have a great weekend,
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: we'll be back at it on Monday, and happy holidays.