Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 309: How I Sold My Project to Netflix with Ferdinando Cito Filomarino

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BPS 309: How I Sold My Project to Netflix with Ferdinando Cito Filomarino · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to IFAH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof
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Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three O nine. It's kind of fun to do
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the impossible Walt Disney broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we
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really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
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showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your
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screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to
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another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now. Unlike
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other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project
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you are in the goals of the project you are, so we actually break
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it down by three categories ecro budget, indie film, market, and studio
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film. There's no reason to get coverage from a reader that's used to reading
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tempole movies when your movie is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars
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and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof Script Coverage, our readers
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Disney, Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more.
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So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers,
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head on over to cover my screenplay dot com. Well, guys, Today
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on the show we have filmmaker Fernando Gito Filamarino, and he is the director
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of the new Netflix film Beckett starring John David Washington, and his story on
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how he got this film made was pretty remarkable. How he's able to come
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from Italy to make this Netflix film, which wasn't a Netflix film when he
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got started, but how he got the tension of a major movie star,
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two major movie stars actually to come onto this project. And I've had the
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pleasure of watching it. It is remarkable. It is a fugitive kind of
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film where the bad guys are chasing a single innocent man across a countryside and
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there's a thousand locations and the actions great, but the sensibility of the film
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is very European and I love that because it was something I haven't really seen
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a whole lot of before, so it's really really heavily character based. And
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Fernando and I we get into the weeds on how he came up with the
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story, how he was able to produce it, the production itself, how
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we got Netflix involved, and so on. So, without any further ado,
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please enjoy my conversation with Fernando Tito Filamarno. I'd like to welcome to
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the show Feranando Tito Filamarno. Hello, thank you for having me. Thank
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you so much. I'm glad I did not massacre it too badly, but
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thank you so much for being on the show, my friend. I really
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appreciate you coming on you. We're gonna get deep into the weeds on your
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new film Beckett, which I absolutely adored, that's coming up on Netflix soon.
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But before we even get into that, how did you get started in
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the film business? I well, it's the question is specific because it's how
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I got started in the business, because I guess as a small premise,
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I always decided, I would say from the age of this, the beginning
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of Reason, about eleven twelve, when you start having adeas, even though
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they're ridiculous at that age because they're just a little kid, I had decided
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that I wanted to make movies somehow. So then you know, you know,
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I went to high school and and everything, and then I went to
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the university. In Italy, we don't really have we have a couple of
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film schools, but at university or college, the film programs are just our
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film studies. So you watch films and you read books and you you know,
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analyze them and stuff like that. It's not about the filmmaking process.
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So I did that, and then after that I was by you know,
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by then I was twenty one, and I was desperate for film sets because
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I had been so many years just imagining, I want to make this movie
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in that movie, and I love these movies for these reasons. And okay,
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let's study film history because I love it. So it's fine. But
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you know, I was interested in filmmaking. So then all of this,
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all of these years fueled the absolute obsession with which I looked for a film
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job. First when I got when I graduated from university, looking as for
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jobs as an ad basically as an assistant director on anything I looked in Italy,
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which is difficult. Also in Italy, I mean, I mean Italy
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has a pretty healthy production but not you know, if you compare to America,
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for sure, they're many less, many fewer films produced. But I
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also looked in the UK because at the time my girlfriend lived there so I
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could crash at her place, I had friends. I don't know, I
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just I did everything I could, and I landed my first job, but
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as an assistant director on a film by Richard Are called The other Man and
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on that and I had I had no experience on film sets at all,
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so it was funny because they the film had kind of an Italian mini section
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to it, which is I think why they hired me. Although ironically,
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even though they went to shoot in Milan, which is my hometown, they
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didn't bring me there because it was too expensive part of the shoot. Although
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the only reason that heard me was I was Italian. Basically, I had
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no skills except the enthusiasm, which so they're just like, all right,
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so I don't know, hold this ladder while the gaffer works on that window
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and this my first days will literally like this just sort of I don't know
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what you could do, just do that, make this coffee. And I
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was of course miles away from the director and the casts. I did red
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light and bell, which is in the UK they do this thing where before
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shooting in some productions, at least before shooting, you you ring a bell
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three times and red light flashes so everyone knows they're shooting and they keep quiet
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and hold the work. I did that. So that was my first experience
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in my way into the business, although and actually it was a very important
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experience because I was so unimportant and had so zero responsibilities. Although by the
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end it did allow me to bring the cast a set and stuff like that,
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which was Liam Neeson and Antonio Bandera and Laura Lenney. I should say,
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so pretty cool for at that in that position, I got to know
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what everyone did on set as as a guy who doesn't, you know,
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I just, of course there were so many people I knew about the heads
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of department from my film studies, but not what like the prop master.
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I wasn't sure what a prop master did then, so you know, that
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would come in handy, very handy later when I had my first crew on
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my first short film. But then I got back to Milan, which is
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my hometown, at exactly the same time Luca Guano was coming to Milan to
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his movie I Am Love, and he was looking for people to to collaborate
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with him and to help him understand some things of the city, fight certain
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types of locations, and find people to be in the film that wouldn't be
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actors, but that would be people from the world he was portraying in the
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film. And because I was looking for work and he was looking for such
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a person, we found each other through mutual connections, and I did that
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film, and that was a completely different experience, and I got to work
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very closely with him and got to know his working method really closely, and
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all his collaborators too, which eventually became also my collaborators, some of them
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anyway. So that was and that meeting with him and with his producing partner
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Marco Morabito or would turn out to be life changing in some ways, because
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aside from personal relationships, what happened is I wrote an idea for a short
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film after that movie was over, and I showed it to Luca, who
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showed it to Marco, and the two of them said, like, this
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is great, we want to produce it, and of course I was so
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happy. And then it took a year and a half of work to put
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together, you know, I mean, you need to tell me it didn't
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You mean to tell me it didn't happen overnight. They didn't just write a
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check and then you were shooting the next week. Three weeks later we were
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shooting. You know. It was it was a long journey. Also,
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I was right right, it was a little ambitious in what I wanted to
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do with the actors were obviously it was very con conceived to be in one
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location, a villa. It was just like a car scene outside of it,
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so something that would make sense. But I my ambition was to work
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with great actors, and even with writing, I already had an idea of
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who I wanted to approach. For those We'll be right back after a word
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from our sponsor, and now back to the show rolls. And they were
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important actors in Europe and in France and in Italy, you know, and
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that's what all that time you know, took, but between finding financing and
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you know, I still have some debts from that, by the way,
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I do, really no, I'm sure I'm sure you do. And coming
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round to those actors, which eventually, you know, embraced the project and
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did it that took a while, but that was my first you know,
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I did I did video stuff beforehand. It was a video maker. I
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did stuff for the Internet, stuff for higher small silly things, but that
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I would I would consider that short film, which was called Diarchy, my
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first piece of work as as a filmmaker for cinema, let's say. And
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that, so I guess that's how I got into the business. To answer
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a very long question, fair enough, now, when you made your first
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short film, what was the biggest lesson you learned on that, Because you
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must have been being bombarded with lessons on a daily basis during that year and
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a half and through production and afterwards. So what's the biggest thing you learned
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making that first film. Well, something that happened to me, I have
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to say, naturally was over preparing. And one big lesson I learned is
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it's never enough all that time. That all that hardship that I learned not
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during the making, but I guess during the development is you know, be
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ready to be sad all the time and depressed and feel like it's never going
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to work out, and people say no, and then they or even worse,
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they say yes, and then they changed their mind. And they say
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no, and you know, especially looking for funding. But you know,
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by the time I got to set, all that time had passed. I
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had thought about every inch of this short film, how I wanted to shoot
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it, how I wanted the performances to be in everything. But all that
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preparation I realized, you know, I understood first of all something that is
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pretty obvious, which is the amazing luck of working with great performers, because
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I could have envisioned everything. But then the most beautiful thing is when one
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of the actors, like Lui Gerell, who is a very natural actor who
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goes by very much by his instinct and intuition, everything that he came out
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with that I could not have envisioned was gold. But to go back to
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what I was saying earlier, there's still so many unexpected things that happen when
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you're actually shooting something. And just even like this example, also the things
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that come out of collaborators and actors, there is just not no limit to
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how much you can bring in and then still be surprised. And then also
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there's no limit to how much you can prepare and still feel unprepared on the
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day because because of the unexpected, and so you know, that was,
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I guess, a hard, a hard lesson to learn. But once you
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know, a lesson I learned even later in making my first feature and then
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eventually my second is the importance of sleep. I actually learned that on my
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short film. I did not learn that because I basically did not sleep for
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the whole six days of shooting because I was excited, because I was worrying
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about everything. And you know, on day five, I literally walked into
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my hotel room and I fainted to sleep. But I because I hadn't felt
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I hadn't slept all the day, because I felt I had more important things
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to do than sleep. I have to think about tomorrow, to go over
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the shots I envisioned and and you know, prepare. But that was a
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mistake, and I learned only later the importance of you know, shutting down
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and actually falling asleep and letting sleep do it. It's work as well.
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Absolutely no, trust me, I completely understand. And as you get older,
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you realize about sleep because when you're young, when you're young, you
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think you could do anything. Yeah. Yeah, I was a little young
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when I said when I did that short film, so of course I couldn't
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even physically do that. Now, yes, me to my friend, Now,
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did you know so when you went to your when you went on on
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day one with your with your short film. I did this all the time,
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and especially when I was first starting out, I really did this.
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I showed up and I showed my first AD and my DP the shots,
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the shot list for the day, at least for the first half of the
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day, and I would show up with, like, you know, one
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hundred and seventy five shots, and then and then the season first first a
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D in the season DP would go, that's nice, what do you want
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to cut? Did you did you do that? Or do you kind of
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show up with a bunch of like you know, I always like to overshoot,
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so I always prepare like thirty or forty shots well knowing that I'll get
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ten of them if I'm lucky that day, but at least I have that
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just in case there is where things are moving them, things are going quick,
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and then I kind of get what I want? Is that the way
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you approach that first? For it probably out of enthusiasm. I didn't have
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more than was feasible, because of course I didn't have the experience to know
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what would be feasible for sure. However, in general I have to say
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my approach is different, and I tend to do the opposite and try to
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think more about how less shots can do the trick. Actually, I mean
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it depends also on what the film is and what the story requires in terms
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of pace. For example, that was quite you know. That short film
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had to do with something that was burning slow and undercurring and a building tension.
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Uh you know. I wasn't action packed or anything. It was about
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the hidden part of our relationship and to be two friends, let's say,
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and the tension that was there and then it sort of bursts for a moment.
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So you know, I didn't think I would need fast cutting anything,
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you know. So in that sense, I have to say, even though
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I may have over over you know, overestimated it will be good. Shoot,
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I don't have that tendency. I didn't have that tendency on that or
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on my first film. But rather I guess the difficulty of the shots that
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I came up with, whether you know they were realistically or not. And
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you know that was rain and uh yeah, and it's all of this is
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going to be covered in Rain and then we'll have the rain out the window
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and they're like, yeah, yeah, we kept for that. There's just
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one guy spraying water on the window like this, right yeah, in the
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in the image, in the director's imagination, you have rainmakers, you've got
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you know, rain all over the place, you've got the wide shot,
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you've got lights for a mile down so you can get these full beaut shots.
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And it ends up with it ends up with a grip with a hose
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on a window. That's exactly how it actually, Well, like we couldn't
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have the hose because it wasn't the second floor, so it was literally like
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this some poor grips outside. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now, how
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did you how did you leverage the short film into your first feature film,
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because that's a lot of filmmakers are trying to figure out getting their first short
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film and how they can leverage that to get access to making an actual feature.
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I am afraid I did not think that much ahead. I think look,
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I had an idea for a short film, which was an idea,
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a concept, and therefore would work for a short film. I actually and
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generally, you know, what I love about movies is something to do with
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creating a world and creating a narrative and then challenging that narrative and challenging the
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experience of watching the movie. So it kinda is about features. So this
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idea I had had was not was never really going to work for a feature.
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It was it was something that would work for something limited in time.
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So in that sense, I just kind of conceived that project as it was
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as us as a and the idea I mean, I'll tell you without getting
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into the story, the concept was also seeing as if it was a piece
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of a bigger film, but the only very important piece of it. You
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know. So you see those two people driving in the car, and they're
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they've obviously done something before, and then something is obviously going to happen later,
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but you're seeing the most important piece and that's it fragment of story like
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a dream really um where you can't really remember what was before and you can't
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really remember what happened after, but this is the important bit of the dream.
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So in that sense, I guess in terms of long lead projects,
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I did not think I had that way. I thought, this is cool
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for a short film, Let's make it the best way we can. And
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then and then actually I was writing a feature which had absolutely nothing to do
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with this which was gonna be um epic, obviously obviously epic, obviously too
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epic. And so when I realized how difficult it was to finance this short
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film, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now
19:49
back to the show. And then eventually how difficult it would be to finance
19:56
that feature which was too EPICU talking with my producers about this conundrum. U.
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Then then this other idea came along to make what actually became my first
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feature, which was something smaller and more manageable. Yeah, and and and
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then with the success of that, how did you get uh involved with Beckett?
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I mean, because that's a fairly big jump from where you were to
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an an to an action movie with a major, major up and coming star,
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if not already a star as well, and Oscar Oscar winner with Alicia
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in there, and I mean, it's just amazing. So how did you
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get involved with the Beckett look? Uh? First of all, I should
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specify that, and it depends the perspective. But my first feature was you
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know, it had a beautiful festival run, won awards, uh, got
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some very nice reviews. UH. But you know, it only got distributed
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in Italy. It wasn't and and on and on movie internationally, but you
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know it was. It was a tiny film. It was a very niche
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thing. So it comes into play, but it's not I would say,
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because of well, I guess you can be the judge of that. I'll
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tell you how I think it comes into play because actually Beckett and the genre
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of Beckett, which let's say is sort of a dramatic Manhunt thriller, something
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I have always wanted to play with, something I have always loved the movies
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ever since I was a little kid. In fact, you know what the
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first filmmaker I ever loved very much was was Brian de Palma with Manhunt.
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Aside, the way he deals with genre and different ones at that, with
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such a personal point of view and such warm and dramatic characters was something that
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always inspired me from the get go. And then I guess that inspiration I
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applied of Manhunt literature but also movies, and so I always knew I wanted
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to make a movie in those in that realm, let's say. But obviously
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it was going to be something more ambitious, and that could not have been
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something made as a first feature, at least the way I envisioned it,
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the way I wanted, you know, to create a world wide wide enough
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to contain something as strong as I would like it to be. But so,
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you know what happened is I conceived this the story based on on what
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I loved and what I wanted to make more personal than mine, also adding
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something that would be that would feel fresh today in the genre, because of
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course we have seen many Manhunt films, but I like the idea of trying
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to make something new, as I'm sure everyone does. After and after finding
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my angle, you know, we approached these actors and you know, the
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first day that happens as they react to what's on the page. John David
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liked what he read. He liked the idea that this character characture was completely
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unusual for the genre, and it was a dramatic character, a man who
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was going through a personal crisis, and it was completely unfit to be,
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you know, experiencing what happens in the film, and definitely not your typical
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hero per se, not skilled as a hero of these types of films.
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And then I guess what my first feature, you know, when he read
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that, we sent him my first feature, just you know, oh,
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and this is the guy who conceived the movie and is going to direct it.
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And then we had our meeting. And when we had our meeting,
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the first fifteen minutes, John David spoke about my first feature because he loved
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it. I love this, I love I loved that performance, and he
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spoke about that scene at the beginning. And I think that it was an
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amazing icebreaker, of course, because that movie was so different. You know,
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it was a portrait of a poet from the nineteen thirties, but yet
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he could connect to something on there that was that had to do with the
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portrayal of character, which of course we're come into play in our conversation in
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Beckett, because actually Beckett is a dramatic character, and so in some ways
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there was something there I guess to argue similarities at least an approach, then
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of course the genre would be different. So, you know, I like
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to think that that first feature I did, even though John David would not
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have seen it unless we sent it to him in the context of reading Beckett,
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it helped our relationship, our dialogue, maybe even his belief in me,
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you know, So it did come into play in that sense. And
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then so you just basically sent the script out to John David's people. He
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read it, he liked that, he met with you at that point,
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then you started looking for financing or was Netflix of attached? How did that
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work? No, NETFLX was not attached. We financed the film completely independently
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with the hard work of my producers. It was in tandem, you know.
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We we were shopping the movie to finance years and simultaneously casting it.
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And then of course when John David decided to make the movie, that that
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was it started to become a very specific package that we could have. And
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then eventually we managed to finance it actually with mostly European money, a lot
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of Italian money, in a spice of Brazilian money, and then we made
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the film completely independently, and then net expected up once we finished it as
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a distributor. Interesting. So, then, one thing I've always found I
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found issues going through my journeys in Hollywood, especially when I was coming up,
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is when you do one genre like you did with your first movie,
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which was much more character based, and you want to jump genre to essentially
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a dramatic action film, you know, because there's a lot of a lot
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of stunts, a lot of actions. A lot of times, especially if
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you're just a director, they say, oh, well, he has no
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directing, he has no skill, and he has never shot action before.
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How can we give him millions of dollars to shoot an action? But the
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big difference with you is that you were also the creator behind it, so
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you kind of had to like, if you want the movie, you got
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to bring me along for the ride. Is that kind of how it worked?
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And did you did you come into those walls? Did you hit those
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walls? Well? No, no, you're absolutely right. I go and
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ask the question why many times, why you made the poet movie? Why
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do you want to do this? And like, what's the problem with doing
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I mean, I love poets, sure, I love artists. I thought
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that movie had a reason to exist because it was interesting to me to see.
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You know, there aren't that many movies about poets, and I thought
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it would be interesting to make a movie about poetry and the creative process of
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a poet. And I also find it interesting to make a man hunt film
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with a very dramatic character at the center. Why why can't that be?
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Yeah? And and and I'm a kind of expert in that genre, even
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though I'd never shot it before, and I like the idea of with my
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perspective, finding my angle through it, you know. And then on the
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script, I wanted to collaborate it with with some someone American, especially because
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of my background and my European perspective. I liked the idea because of course
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we were playing with genre troupes that mostly belong to American cinema, even though
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not exclusively, but mostly. I like that our two different perspectives. Who
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with Kevin Rice, who eventually became the screenwriter on the film. Uh,
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you know that collaboration, that formula. So I got asked that question a
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lot, and my answer was always look, I mean someone even suggested,
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oh, and then we'll have a great second unit your action scene, and
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I'm like, no, why I want to shoot the action scene? I
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mean, I mean, of course they're bro. Look, we called amazing
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stunt a stunt an, amazing stunt coordinator and stunt performers to help us on
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the movie. That of course, but why in conceiving the action? No,
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I want I want to conceive the action. I want to I want
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to decide how to shoot it and tailor it on what this character is,
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the specificity of this character, who, by the way, happens to be
28:30
a not a you know, a trained killer, and on this story,
28:37
on my tone, on my locations, which so informs so much of what
28:41
the tone of the film is. So yeah, I got to ask that
28:45
question a lot, and it always the argument is, look, you know,
28:48
I find the story to be interesting, both because of this character's perspective,
28:53
but also, you know, because of the genre. I love the
28:56
genre. I want I want to find my way into it. And it
29:00
was sometimes it took hard, convincing and sometimes probably it was not convincing,
29:04
but you got it done. But but you got it in. You got
29:07
done. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and independently that's what's interesting. You
29:11
know. Look, we did go around with of course, the problem aside
29:18
from the genre too is I had only with one feature, one dramatic feature,
29:22
one dramatic feature, one dramatic feature. Yeah, so of course it
29:26
was going to be hard, but then you know, yeah, we got
29:29
it done. It was. It was a lot of It was a lot
29:32
of hard work, and of course having the producers that I had as a
29:37
team behind me, both because you know, they're they're amazing, uh,
29:45
credibility. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back
29:55
to the show. But also because of your work, you know, finding
30:00
the right people to talk to and proposing it correctly, setting up are very
30:06
difficult meetings in which I got asked those weird questions. Um, yeah,
30:11
so it was it was all of those things. Sorry for the interruption,
30:15
guys. We will be right back after a word from our sponsor. For
30:19
example. Another example of that what you ask is oh and then and then
30:23
you could get an amazing DP who has a lot of experience in action,
30:26
and I'm like again, no, I love to work with my DP who
30:32
shot my first movie. He's my favorite DP in independent cinema. He's the
30:36
best, even though he has not action, he has not shot action.
30:40
That I was a tough to find our action language that is ours, and
30:48
you know our approach. And what I love about when I was telling you
30:52
this before we started the conversation, was I love the approach to the action
30:57
in this film. It was so un American in so many ways, which
31:03
which you can. I mean, I'm a connoisseur of cinema obviously, so
31:06
when I was watching it. I was just like, oh, this is
31:08
so fresh. You could obviously tell this as a European director. This is
31:11
not an American director in the best sense of the word. Because just the
31:18
focus on character, I felt John David throughout the piece as opposed to just
31:22
like some sort of puppet action you know, eighties character who would just go
31:26
without any depth. There was so much depth, so much emotion, so
31:30
much pain in the action and in that character that was so wonderful. And
31:33
just how you shot the action was raw and it felt like a constant roller
31:41
coaster. Like you were you. You didn't give up, You didn't give
31:44
There was a very moment, there was very few moments of break. You
31:47
were just like you just on this thing, and you like when you held
31:49
on and you got ahold of the audience, you didn't let go, which
31:52
I loved. I loved that about the action. Well, I find that
31:57
to be again, I guess depending on the kind of movie you want to
32:02
make, there is a where is your focus, And in many movies I
32:09
guess that are more or less thrillers or action thrillers. Spectacle is important and
32:16
as such it sucks a way, I guess from other aspects of what can
32:22
be explored, and in my case, I definitely wanted spectacle and the sense
32:27
of adventure of the genre to be there, but I wanted to only get
32:31
there through this character because I found that, you know, having him be
32:38
so specific, so unequipped for this experience, going through everything that he's going
32:45
through, aside from the experience with his own personal crisis, I found that
32:52
that approach to this arrival at the Spectacle would be, I guess what UNI
33:00
we had to offer. And of course this is enabled aside from you know,
33:05
conceiving it and planning it, by the amazing performance of John David.
33:09
So you know, one thing is you say, all right, So he
33:14
decides he wants to he's running away from danger. He wants to steal that
33:19
bike, and I guess, in a movie which focuses on spectacle, he
33:22
steals the bike and he speeds through the streets, avoiding all sorts of dangers
33:28
and gets away. In this movie, it does not go that way at
33:32
all, because you know, you try to steal a scooter from an angry
33:37
Greek person who's going to do something very important. I want to see how
33:43
that goes you as an average person, And I like the idea even of
33:45
playing around with this concept of first of all challenging the trope and second really
33:52
thinking about how would it go for this character and not just for the sake
33:57
of, you know, the spectacle and again doing what has been already well
34:02
covered. Now I guess that this this angle then informed, of course,
34:09
how the action took place right exactly and then and then therefore how it shot.
34:16
As a consequence, if you are exactly and you can tell that you
34:20
you did not lead with spectacle. Though there is spectacle in the film,
34:22
no question um, but it did not lead with that. And that's so
34:27
wonderful about it now. I was, and I was telling this to my
34:30
wife when we were watching it. I'm like, I think John David's in
34:32
every single scene, isn't he There's not one scene he's not. It's it's
34:36
pretty much every scene he's in. Yeah, so that must have been brutal
34:39
for him as an I like, he's there's not a break. I joke
34:45
with him. I joke with him that he actually ran much more than Beckett
34:49
because he had to do taste exactly that I only had to do it once.
34:53
Uh, And I love and I love about him that you've given.
34:57
You gave him throughout his journey, things that would slow him down, injuries
35:02
and you know, all these kind of things that I equate with John mcclan
35:07
walking on barefooted on class in Die Heart. Yeah, that you gave him
35:12
a bunch of that. You didn't have to because it was tough enough,
35:15
but you added that extra level of stress to the character, which I thought
35:20
was wonderful. It was just a nice little touch. Well, I think
35:22
this actually has to do with, as Quentin Tarantino would say it, I
35:28
guess, delivering the goods of the genre. And I'm quoting something I remember
35:35
him talking about reservoir dogs. I guess because the way he was presenting it
35:40
I remember, and then stopped referencing him, was it's a highest film where
35:46
you don't see the highst But I still want to deliver the goods and the
35:50
excitement of that kind of film. Okay, and reference I get the point
35:57
to me, you know, the great the beauty and enjoyment. End up
36:00
seeing a great man hunt thriller. Is it a kind of road movie?
36:05
You know, there's you know, you have to escape and therefore you cover
36:07
ground and therefore ground landscape locations they're very important. And so in that sense,
36:15
of course, okay, so he becomes the danger, arrives, and
36:23
he decides to want to go to the US embassy, which happens to be
36:28
not where he is at all now, but basically, in a in a
36:34
film like this, and with this premise, the landscape can change the story
36:39
because if there's one highway connecting him to the embassy, it's one story.
36:45
If there's five mountains, four rivers, seven trains and you know, a
36:50
bunch of protesters, it's a different story, you know. So that becomes
36:55
part of the movie. So I would I would consider it, I guess,
36:59
more than touch actually part of the flesh of the film. And I'll
37:06
tell you that when I was driving around mainland Greece, where I wanted to
37:10
set the film, looking for locations, I sometimes even saw something that was
37:17
so striking that it was kind of backwards compatibility, like, okay, so
37:23
this is great, let's adapt the scene so that it would work with this
37:29
location. Because he goes through here, then you know, this happens as
37:34
a consequence and it stays with him for the rest of the film. And
37:38
in that sense, the land itself it became a part of the movie,
37:44
and I thought that was important for this type of movie, for that sense
37:46
of adventure and spectacle. Yeah, of course. Now do you have any
37:51
advice for directing actors, because I mean, you have some amazing performances in
37:53
Beckett. Well, look, I am a little obsessive, so I like
38:04
to do a lot of research and collect material for myself, thinking about the
38:09
characters and how you know, both in the writing process but then also thinking
38:15
about how to make them alive. And I like to share that material with
38:23
the actors I work with. That said, I would say my advice for
38:30
filmmakers who are starting out is the absolutely open to the instinct and the quality
38:40
specific to that actor, because maybe sometimes when younger filmmakers come with so much,
38:46
so many ideas, and so much excitement about all this character has to
38:50
be like this and like that very very well be if you're the absolute master
38:54
of you know, filmmaking. But in many cases that's not true. And
39:00
in fact, something like I was saying earlier in our conversation, that the
39:04
actor might come out with instinct or reacting to the material you share, or
39:10
just from their own baggage, and it's something that you may not have imagined
39:15
is much richer and more useful at the end of the day to the performance
39:20
that you seek. So and that actually works differently from actor to actors.
39:24
So I guess one has to have. One needs that sensibility of understanding what
39:30
is the level of dialogue and exchange or even how much you sort of want
39:38
to give an actor or how much does another type of actor not want to
39:43
receive very much. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
39:51
and now back to the show. I shouldn't want to kind of do their
39:54
own thing. That is difficult to master. I guess when you're starting out
40:00
finding that sensibility of calibrating how you work with whom I I you know,
40:07
at least that's how I do it. I you know, people are different
40:10
actors have different personalities and different methods, for sure. So I always come
40:15
with my baggage and my preparation and the material I like to share, and
40:19
then see what happens and calibrate accordingly according to what happens next, you know,
40:24
and definitely be open to their instinct and everything that they can enrich.
40:32
Now, what was the toughest day that you had on set? What was
40:37
the toughest production day, like you're like, oh my god, this is
40:39
not gonna We're not gonna make it. There's always a day like that.
40:44
Well, we're not gonna make it. It's not good attitude. Okay,
40:47
how can how can we? How can we make it without without me dying?
40:52
No, I'm joking. I'll tell you. I'll tell you the most
40:55
obvious answer first, and we have. Obviously, there's a big there's a
41:01
two scenes. One that is a rally, a political rally or a politician
41:07
is going to speak, and then later and then stuff happens, and then
41:10
later that rally has turned into a riot. Okay, So these are two
41:16
scenes that are set in the same square. We were lucky enough that basically
41:23
the municipality of Athens allowed us to shoot in Syntagma Square, the Parliament Square,
41:30
which is where what you know, when they do rallies, they walk
41:34
from areas of Athens, they join up and they arrive in the Parliament Square.
41:39
That's how it happens. In reality, it happens to be humongous.
41:44
No movie could ever cover it entirely because it's too big. However, they
41:47
said you can shoot there, and okay, luxury amazing, beautiful, But
41:52
you have only one day, okay, so you know it would be one
42:00
thing to have one scene to shoot, but we had two and they were
42:04
different. So you know, that was the toughest day on the most obvious
42:09
terms of what a tough day is, because you know, of course we
42:14
have to plan everything. Of course there were unexpected things, and we just
42:17
had to deliver so much storytelling and also show so much stuff going on plot
42:28
moments. Also that's near the end of the film, so there's a lot
42:30
going on thought wise, but there's also all these people to wrangle. But
42:36
there's also the problem of even though we had a lot of extras, there
42:38
was also ninety seven percent of the square was empty. Wow, it didn't
42:43
look it didn't look well. Yeah, well that's the thing, yeah,
42:46
to find the angle. But then okay, so that angle works, but
42:50
then you have to go all the way there to shoot that scene, and
42:52
then we had to go all the way there to shoot that other moment,
42:54
and so it was a nightmare. You know, we hit it. Yeah,
43:00
there's a big difference in production design from a rally to a riot as
43:05
far as just the sets and all that stuff. So like, once you
43:08
you're like, okay, did we get everything for the rally? Okay,
43:10
now let's start breaking everything apart. Let's start setting some fires. Let's start
43:15
you know, putting some debris out, because you can't go back after you
43:19
got one day. You can't go back once you start, once you've let
43:21
that go, it's gone. No One thing we did manage to to h
43:25
which is kind of funny if you know it and when you watch the film,
43:30
but I'll say it anyway, is we did manage to go back to
43:35
shoot a couple of sidewalks, which means basically that we shot we shot the
43:38
square scenes and then there's like a moment that's only on a sidewalk and that
43:43
all the characters are looking into the square to this amazing drama that's happening.
43:46
And actually it was just full of traffic like every day, you know,
43:52
so you got you want to snuck. And that's the extent that we managed
43:54
to sort of do get some thing back. But you know, the bulk
44:00
of it we shot on that day and it was it was intense. You
44:02
know, every twenty minutes we had to move and do something else or you
44:07
know, the scene would would be missing plot points, right exact. Couldn't
44:10
we could leave anything behind them. There was no plan, no possible plan.
44:15
B. Now what was it like, UM, collaborating with John David
44:20
as a as a as a collaborator, as an actor. I mean,
44:23
it's a pretty intense relationship. You guys must have had to do a film
44:28
like this since he's in every scene, its action, You're in a foreign
44:31
land and all this kind of stuff. How did How was that collaboration?
44:37
It was beautiful And I think the first, you know, referencing again that
44:42
first meeting that we had about the film, UM, we had a great
44:45
conversation there, and I think we understood that we were in sync about our
44:52
taste and the idea of playing with genre. He loves genre cinema as well,
45:00
very much, and he liked this idea of approaching it from this odd
45:05
angle with this odd character. So that informed a lot of our first conversation
45:09
and then eventually our working relationship because with this exciting understanding that started our dialogue,
45:20
it was all a nice sort of exploration hunt for ways to best express
45:25
it. So again I had I had a bunch of material that I shared
45:30
with him, a bunch of movies that I wanted to show him and then
45:34
he would react to those and we'd had beautiful, long conversations about why that
45:37
was interesting, what we can take from that, what we should not take
45:40
from that, And so that was I would say that was the most important
45:46
part of creating that character, or at least I guess informing that our working
45:52
relationship leading to that performance. And then we did so much of that beforehand
45:58
that by the time we got to set, we have short had you know,
46:02
we had an understanding, we had a library of references to get to
46:07
if we needed to, like, oh, remember that moment from that movie
46:12
that you like for that and that reason, Yeah, let's think of that
46:15
or or um. You know, we talked a lot about the relationship that
46:22
Beckett has with his girlfriend April in the film, and the meaning of that
46:27
relationship and because the two characters are so different from each other and yet they
46:30
are completely in love, and that, of course, because of what happens
46:35
at the beginning of the film, becomes important in the movie inside of Beckett
46:40
throughout the rest of the story, what's going on in his personal crisis,
46:47
And you know, it was it was again shorthand and easy to go back
46:52
and reference that. And the thing about John David is that he is obsessive,
46:58
extremely passionate, and a master minimalist in many ways. So that we
47:05
had this package, we had this dialogue, and then he would just go
47:07
with his instinct and that's when I got to sit back and enjoy with everything
47:14
we talked about, it all sort of went away and disappeared, and then
47:17
he went. He came out with his talent and his instinct, and then
47:22
whatever we wanted to change it was again. It was just like, oh,
47:25
remember that thing we said about the relationship that she wished she could be,
47:30
but then you know that's lost and he thinks about it now, It
47:37
just like ten seconds conversation. It references the whole world that we already discussed
47:43
beforehand, and we were able to have this complicity which was you know,
47:47
a privileged and gold to me also you know, gave me confidence in and
47:55
in the every day production. Yeah. Now, the one thing, and
48:02
I want to just kind of put a little spotlight on what you've just said,
48:06
is a lot of times first time directors or young directors don't realize how
48:12
important collaborating with your lead actors are and they come in with their ego,
48:17
their way of doing it, and they're very kind of concrete about I want
48:22
my character to do this, this and this, and they block and they
48:25
just kind of disregard what the actor who's playing that character brings to the table.
48:30
And only through working with actors you understand that the magic you're hiring them
48:36
because of their bringing their magic to them to this character. So I'm sure
48:39
that Beckett was created once on the page, but then once John David came
48:44
in and then both of you started working together, it became what we see
48:49
and it wasn't just all your way along and all the great directors do that
48:52
because that's the way it should be, right, Wow, that's how it
48:55
becomes better. And you could take and you could take if word as a
49:00
director. I'm joking, yeah, of course, of course I'm joking.
49:07
The point is exactly. I mean, my mind is limited to being one
49:13
mind. Yeah, I conceived the project I put together with pieces, but
49:20
you know it is only through collaborators who, each of their own job is
49:23
obviously much better than me, come contribute with their ideas. And this is
49:28
of course most important with actors, who define very much the the final temperature
49:38
of a movie we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and
49:49
now back to the show. The soul of a movie in some ways,
49:54
um, and that that's that's kind of why I think when you hear when
49:59
you're reading about film history and stuff, you're like, oh, and then
50:01
this actor was going to playing that movie, but then you know he couldn't,
50:06
and then this other actor played, and you're like, I can't imagine
50:09
that. And it's because it's because that, you know, the actor establishes
50:15
I think, the beating heart of the movie or the soul of the movie,
50:19
depending on how spiritual you are, so much that no matter how much
50:24
he conceived around him and inside him, that talent and that baggage that inevitably
50:32
an actor is. You know. Berta Lucci always said, any feature fiction
50:37
movie is, at the end of the day, a documentary about the actors,
50:43
you know, because they're actors and they act, but at the end
50:45
of the day, they are these humans who go who are able to go
50:49
places and deliver what the what the story needs. And you know, and
50:55
you can't plan all of that. It's impossible, silly, and if you
51:00
did, it would be probably shallow, you know, And it is an
51:07
actor's qualities. And definitely with John David, I got lucky h that that
51:14
make whatever character is at play the real deep and you know, in this
51:20
case relatable, warm and strong at the same time. Now, when is
51:25
a becket available for everyone to see? It's Friday, the thirteenth of August.
51:31
Okay, very quick, and I tell you every day it's a it's
51:36
a fantastically lucky day. I think you'll do fine. Now I'm gonna ask
51:42
a few questions I ask all my guests, Um, what advice do you
51:45
wish you would have gotten at the beginning of your career? Um, well,
52:00
I would say it's a tough question because there's many. I would say
52:07
the first one that comes to mind. The first one that comes to mind
52:17
is I think absolutely without boundaries. But then also, um, revise with
52:31
critical editorial mind, you know, to find the essence of what you needed
52:38
to say. You know, when you're when you're when it's so it's so
52:40
expensive and difficult to make films that you know when you're starting out and you
52:45
it's difficult to get any scene made. It's costly and everything, and then
52:50
you put you cut stuff and it's on the cutting room floor, and you're
52:52
like Jesus, you know, if I'd known that I didn't need to shoot
52:57
that, I would have shot you know, the other stuff. So and
53:02
it's impossible, I mean, you can't, you don't, you can't get
53:06
there, but aspire to that, I guess to that quality. And then
53:08
of course, sleep sleep, sleep, sleep sleep. Um So, and
53:16
would that be the advice you would give a filmmaker trying to break into the
53:20
business today or would it? Would that be some other advice? Well,
53:22
I mean, look, it's it would be a mistake I think to say
53:27
to give the advice of thinking practically, like you know, come up with
53:31
something that you can make that's not too crazy. I think that's wrong.
53:37
I think one should follow absolutely their instinct and their need to tell stories.
53:45
Why do you even want to make this in the first place. That reason
53:51
is what should inform every single decision you make, including how ambitious the project
53:54
is, how ambitious the project is, how big it is. And then
53:59
of course you just have to be a realist and come with critical mind and
54:02
understand how you can tailor it. Let's say, So, you know,
54:07
I guess it's a more complicated piece of advice, but that's how I feel
54:12
I should have. You know, if I known that more efficiently, it
54:20
would mean I would maybe faster to put things together. Very good. Now,
54:25
three of your favorite films of all time? I like that you say
54:31
three of my favorite things films of all times. So it's not the favorite
54:35
three necessary, No, it's a three that come of currently as you as
54:38
as we speak today. UM. Well, I would like to at least
54:45
with one or two reference stuff that inspired me for this film, which remain
54:53
among my favorite films of all time. And one is Three Days of the
54:57
Condor by sac wonderful film. Um. And another is man Hunt by Fritz
55:06
Lang, based on an amazing novel by Jeffrey Household called Rogue Mail In.
55:12
The film in the novel are different, but both are masterpieces, uh,
55:16
for different reasons. And the film is amazing. It's called man Hunt.
55:21
Two words, um. And then UM, what can I say something more
55:28
recent? Um? Look in reference to the amazing composer I got to work
55:37
with, the Huich Sakamoto, I will say, I'm sure to your surprise.
55:42
Snake Eyes by Brian Alma YEA yeah, oh got that opening sequence,
55:47
just the way that camera No. I just say it because I know in
55:52
America it's like, oh, the movie with not that's kind of with the
55:55
crazy Nicholas Cage Da da da da da No. I love that movie and
55:59
he is perfect in it. He's you know, the character is crazy.
56:02
Listen, Nicolas Cage is a national treasure, and that has to be stated
56:07
currently. I mean, I don't care what anyone says. Nicolas Cage is
56:09
a national treasure without questions. We're absolutely on the same page. I can
56:15
watch his early performances, his crazy performances, his subtle performances. He's a
56:20
national treasure. I enjoyed absolutely this. This this again speaking about infusing genre
56:29
with a personal touch Tauna's touch, and with a drama which you do not
56:35
expect because you do not expect it. When you walk into Snake Eyes,
56:37
you expect spectacle and on a grand scale. But then you're like, you're
56:45
surprised to be touched and moved and then more spectacle. It's amazing. Well
56:51
when you can when you when you can combine spectacle with character and emotion,
56:55
well then you have a hit. That's where some of the biggest you know,
57:00
some of the biggest blockbusters Titanic, I mean, for God's Sakes and
57:05
those kind of films that have that, you're able to do the spectacle,
57:07
but there's an emotional core that people attached to. That's why when you see
57:12
these movies that come out of Hollywood sometimes they're all spectacle, and then the
57:15
executives are like, why didn't it make money. I'm like, because you've
57:19
got no heart in it. And it's not just because you can see right,
57:23
you can blow up, you can destroy the world one hundred times,
57:27
and we've seen it a hundred times, and it's not cool just to see
57:29
that spectacle anymore. It has to be story. If you don't have story,
57:31
you don't have character, you don't have something to hold onto. It's
57:35
just empty. And in today's world, my god, we're bombarded with so
57:38
much stuff that when you want that attached and I think that is I think,
57:45
honestly, it's one of the things I love about Beckett is the connection,
57:49
the human connection. I think that's what we all thrive for as human
57:52
connection. And if you can connect to a story at an emotional level,
57:55
the spectacle is just added cream on the top of the cake. M Yeah,
58:02
absolutely, I mean I wish your statement was always true. Example and
58:08
the example of Snake Guys makes it not entirely true because I'm afraid that was
58:13
not ahead. Oh no, it's there's always reasons for it not to be
58:16
a hit. But but they connect to you emotionally. And I think the
58:21
Palma and we can we can go for an hour about Di Palma because I'm
58:24
a huge DePalma fan as well. Sisters, and oh my god, it
58:28
was just amazing amount of stuff that he's done, and it's so fascinating that
58:31
he left Hollywood. He's like, I'm screw Hollywood. I'm just gonna go
58:35
to Europe and just make movies now the way I want to make them.
58:37
And I'm like, thank god, because and was beautiful. Yeah right right,
58:44
Yeah, they made the movie he made in Paris, yode stunning.
58:46
It was stunning. No, no, it was stunning. But this is
58:50
one thing I've always I've said this to people on the show as well privately.
58:53
It's unfortunate some of these amazing directors they might have a flop or something
59:00
like that, or they had something that doesn't perform well, and then Hollywood
59:02
takes the keys away from them. Yeah, you know, and it's sad
59:07
because I want to see another Peter Weir film. I want to see another
59:08
Wolfgang Peterson film, you know, I want to see these kind of another
59:12
Brian to Palma film, maybe with a little bit more money involved so he
59:15
can do what he does. And yet they take they take the keys away
59:20
from So I'm so glad that someone like the Palma could just go to Europe
59:23
and just make the movies he wants to make, how he wants to make
59:25
them. I would say that some you know, it's interesting this cross pollination
59:31
between Europe and America, just like it's interesting for some European filmmakers to go
59:37
work in America, you know, depending on the films they want to make.
59:40
I think it's under understated, undervalued. We'll be right back after a
59:46
word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. How much sometimes
59:55
it's it's interesting that American directors go to Europe, not just because they can't
1:00:00
make a film in America, but because the context is different than maybe could
1:00:05
be stimulating in a different way, and you know, different things go,
1:00:10
the taste is likely. I think that cross pollen nation is all, you
1:00:15
know, I believe in this idea of cinema is all one nation. Anyway,
1:00:20
each of us their own culture from their own countries, but we all
1:00:23
meet in the same land. And I you know, of course we referenced
1:00:29
a lot of American cinema or British cinema, but I'm also just as much
1:00:34
inspired thinking again about Beckett by Hong Kong cinema, John Johnny Top movies or
1:00:42
in Japan Takashimi movies. So so sure, I mean, I love I
1:00:50
love to imagine the ubiquity. Yeah, I mean of filmakers and different landscapes
1:00:59
and the and will end it on this. There's one filmmaker who got the
1:01:02
cross Polony over to America back in the nineties was Luke Bissan, and he
1:01:07
did which he did Leon, which he argued, so one of my favorite
1:01:12
action films of all time. And and I love his version of it,
1:01:15
actually not the American version that was called the professional like when he added fifteen
1:01:21
extra minutes that they cut out because it was too risque, it actually made
1:01:24
the story even better. Yeah, I guess that's what I mean with an
1:01:29
American director, if he went to Europe, those fifteen minutes would be in
1:01:31
there, you know, right, And then we finally because Luke Bissan became
1:01:35
Luke Bissan that the studios like, well, maybe we should not have his
1:01:37
director's cut, and that came out and it was Leon, which was originally
1:01:40
they called Leon, but they never thought. But the reason why that movie
1:01:45
works so beautifully is the emotion. I mean, you're you're crying at the
1:01:49
end of an action movie. It's just brilliant. And that is the way.
1:01:52
Yeah, or a character who was most definitely despicable. He's a killer,
1:01:58
he's but the thing that makes his character so wonderful is that he's basically,
1:02:05
you know, just a he's so loving with his plant, and also
1:02:12
he kills bad people. He doesn't get people are Importantly, Gary Oldman is
1:02:15
much more despicable than him. You have to if you don't have Gary Oldman,
1:02:21
then it's hard to root for Leon. But because you've got Gary Oldman,
1:02:24
who is just so oh god, what our performance that was? Oh
1:02:29
God? All right. We can geek out about movies all night, but
1:02:30
there's Fernanando. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It has
1:02:35
been a pleasure. I wish you continued success. Beckett is a triumph and
1:02:38
I hope everybody watching Netflix gets a chance to watch it. This Friday,
1:02:43
August thirteenth, a very lucky day here in America. Thank you, Alex,
1:02:49
my friend. Thanks again. I'd like to thank Ferninando for coming on
1:02:53
the show and dropping his knowledge bombs on the tribe. Thank you so much,
1:02:57
Fernando and I do see just you guys, watch Beckett on Netflix.
1:03:01
It is a hell of a good film. If you want to get links
1:03:05
to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes
1:03:07
at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv Ford Slash three oh nine, and if you haven't
1:03:12
already, please head over to Screenwriting podcast dot com, subscribe and leave a
1:03:17
good review for the show. It really helps us out a lot. Thank
1:03:22
you again for listening, guys. As always, keep on writing no matter
1:03:25
what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting
1:03:30
podcasts at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.