Latest / Reimagine Running / Reimagine Running | Interview with Kevin Kirk S1E29
Transcript
- Kevin Kirk: I'm like, yeah, no, like I'm not having fun. and then he just was like, well, like, what what do we need to do to get you to like back to having fun? you started doing this because running was fun and like you enjoyed the actual aspect of running. And like I guess somewhere along the lines that like it you kind of lose track of that a little bit because you you have these expectations or you have these these goals that you wanna hit And yeah, so like I guess it just comes back to like, yeah, back to your why essentially and like why did you start doing this? Why do you do this? And like what makes it where you're you're having fun. Like I said, my my parents are awesome. they could care less what time I run I think more so my dad just wants me to be happy and wants me to have fun Coach Ryan Head: Running is a strange thing. Some people find it on the sidewalk at sunrise. Some find it deep in the mountains chasing daylight. And some of us find it when life feels heavy and running is the only thing that makes sense. For some, starts with the 5k. For others, it's a marathon. And for a few, it's a hundred miles that changes everything. But somewhere between the first step and the finish line, something happens. Running stops being about pace or distance or medals. It becomes about purpose. I'm your host Ryan Head. And this is Reimagine Running, the podcast dedicated to talking about why we run. Each episode, we'll sit down with runners from every background, trail runners, road runners, beginners, veterans, and talk about their journey. Not just where they've run, but why they run. Because for many of us, running didn't just change our fitness. It helped us find clarity, healing, discipline, hope, and sometimes even ourselves. Whether your why was born on a short loop around the block or somewhere deep inside a long, lonely mile. This podcast is for you. Welcome to re-imagine running. Ryan Head: Alright everybody, welcome back to Reimagine Running, the podcast talking about why we run. I am way excited for this episode today. As I kind of mentioned in previous episodes, as the season has been coming to an end, I've been wanting to bring on just one rock star in the running community after another. Not saying that any of my early guests have not been amazing, but I've been wanting to bring in people who are elites, who've been able to just do some amazing things to really, be crushing it, whether it's racing, training, whether it's on the trails, roads, you name it, 5K, marathon, 100 miler. Already heard from Alex Dock, who took 10th place at Hard Rock a couple weeks back. It's just been one person after another. We've been given some great advice on how you prepare for not only ultra running but also road running this as we're wrapping up this season. Just been some fun, fun guests that have come on and shared some great knowledge, their great insights. So why not bring in another? I am very excited today to bring on Kevin Kirk, who is a fantastic runner. He is elite status, he is someone who has been doing Kevin Kirk: Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: Amazing things in the running community. it's been fun to kind of track him over the last few years. I'm fortunate enough because I get to partner with him at Fleet Feet. I'm one of Fleet Feet's running coaches, he is one of their managers of their stores. As I always do, big shout out to Fleet Feet. have any needs, go see those guys over in Ogden and Leighton. whether it's shoe needs, gear needs, nutrition needs, go see them, they'll get you all taken care of. But I'm just excited because Kevin has been someone that so many of us really look up to and think highly of and it's really cool because you know sometimes you think to yourself you know these elite guys they probably won't don't want nothing to do with all of us slow guys or they think we're all losers or whatever. Kevin is probably the most friendliest person. He likes to tease and all of his coworkers know this Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: but he is a wonderful human being and I it's a pleasure to get him on here. So a little about Kevin currently he resides here in Utah in the northern Utah area area. He's originally from Errington, Nevada. And Kevin Kirk: Yep, yep. Ryan Head: he ran collegiately After he graduated, he has just been on a tear getting into the marathon scene and I just still remember the first time he ran a marathon. If I'm not mistaken, I don't want to probably give it away but he ran the LA marathon. I'll let him talk about that. But he absolutely crushed it. I won't say any more than that i'll let him tell that part of the story so since then he's just been doing special things me and him had a really fun conversation not too long ago that hit really deep with me asking about is this still fun and so without further ado i'm ready to bring my guest on kevin welcome the podcast man Kevin Kirk: Thanks for having me. I I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for thanks for having me on. Ryan Head: Yeah, dude, it is an honor to have you on. I really do think it's fun how so many of us are always rooting for you. We're always following you along in this community of ours, and we just think the world of you. So, dude, I think this episode's gonna be one for the books. People are gonna love to hear from you. And you know, I know that you had a podcast for a while there. so it always makes these episodes easier when when someone knows the Kevin Kirk: I did it. Ryan Head: the the process, if you will. So it makes it a little bit easier for me for editing and all that jazz. So you know, before we get going. Going into all the running stuff, like I always like to do with every one of my guests, tell us something else in your life that you're passionate about that's not running related. It could be anything. I don't care what it is. We've had some fun people talking about like Star Wars and gardening to the NFL and so on and so forth. So dude, what's what's something that you're passionate about? Kevin Kirk: Yeah. I mean besides my family, which is which is huge for me right now. I I grew up racing and riding dirt bikes. right now we're in the middle of the season. they race like thirty-three weekends out of the fifty-two of the year. And there's a couple weeks off, so we just came off of like a two-week break, but yeah, I'm a big Big dirt bike guy, watch every weekend. Billy doesn't love that. just cause Saturdays, Saturday nights, Sunday, depending on when I get to watch it, it's like, hey, we're we're locked in. So yeah, dirt bikes are a a huge part of not just watching them, but yeah, like when I was like a freshman in high school, my parents we were doing both, like we were doing high school sports and we were also racing the dirt bikes and My parents sat me down and like they'd support any decision that I that I made. but they sat me down and they were like, Hey, we we we can't do this, we can't do both. Like we we literally went from we drove like four hours to a cross country race and then they picked me up, signed me out. We drove to Northern Cal California, so we drove like another six hours to to a dirt bike race, drove all night, raced on Saturday, and then we came home and Yeah, that my dad was like, Yeah, we we we can't do this. We can't keep doing this. So they let me make that decision and I and I obviously went kind of high school sports, running, basketball, that type of thing. But dirt bikes still hold a a a special place in my heart for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: Dude, that's that's cool. I remember there was, you know, I I think as I've mentioned before on a previous episode, so me and Billy are coaches for Fleet Feet and for their running programs and and their races and the marathons that they they're partner with. And there was one time me and Billy were running together and she was like, You should ask Kevin sometime about and I forget what his name is. She's like, Ask him if you know this biker, right? This and Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: and she was like, He will freak on you. Like he will be like, That is so cool, you know who it is and I forget who it is. I feel bad. I I should have like texted her before I had but Kevin Kirk: No, you're you're good. She probably was she was probably setting you up for a for a joke, 'cause in in our household there's a guy named Hayden Deegan, and he Ryan Head: Yeah. Kevin Kirk: he kind of is a little bit cocky. He he says some stuff, he stirs the pot a little bit. And so my dad and my mom still watch it as well and and we don't really like him just 'cause he is like a little bit arrogant, in some aspects. But Billy s always like, No, he's the best, he's the best. So she probably was t setting you up and probably said Hayden Deegans and like, this guy's awesome just to get me all riled up. But yeah, Ryan Head: That's awesome. and it may have been him. It's funny that you would say that. I'm Kevin Kirk: Yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: like, I'm wondering if that was who it was. But anyways, That's so cool that you're like, it it's a fun, different thing that no one has ever talked about on here. I know that my wife has family members who are really big into it, and some of them have been hurt really, really bad. It's a it's a crazy dangerous sport too. Like, have you ever been like Kevin Kirk: Yeah. It really is. Ryan Head: sorry, probably have you ever have you ever gotten hurt doing that? Like, Kevin Kirk: knock on wood, I I've never like broken a bone yeah, never bro broken a bone bone riding. I mean I've I've definitely got the wind knocked out of me and it's honestly kinda nice running. you kinda get the wind knocked out of you in a different way, but not where you can't like breathe. So yeah, really haven't haven't had any injuries. I mean I've crashed quite a few times, but not not anything too crazy. So Yeah, but it can be very dangerous. It can be super, super dangerous. So for all of you out there, be careful if you wanna if this inspired you to buy a dirt bike, be very, very careful with those. Ryan Head: We're we're yeah, where do you we're like do you still do it right now? Are you still like involved in in doing birth dirt biking? Are you kinda like, yeah, go Kevin Kirk: it's well, funny enough, my parents brought just a couple months ago, like last month, they brought up our dual sport basically. So what it is is it's like a dirt bike, but you can ride it on the roads. and Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Kevin Kirk: so yeah, I've been I've been riding that around town a little bit, but nothing too crazy. yeah. Billy made it very clear that I have a son now and that I need to be a little bit careful when it comes to being on those things. So haven't done it a ton, but it's it's still something that is is really, really fun to me. So yeah. Ryan Head: That's awesome. I was gonna say two Do you like to write on dirt or sand or just anywhere? Like what's your favorite with it? Kevin Kirk: yeah, I grew up in the desert, so we we wrote a lot of sand, which is yeah, I mean it's it's fun until it's not like you get out there for a while and it's it's gets a little bit old just 'cause you're yeah, it it can be a little bit little bit more tricky than just riding on on regular dirt, but yeah. Yeah, we we went to California to race a lot and it was a lot more hard packed, which is a little bit I think a little bit more fun, but I would say that I'm more of a sandwider just 'cause that's what I grew up in. But yeah. Ryan Head: That's awesome. That's interesting. No, it's it it's really cool to hear that 'cause I I don't know, for me, I've gone out on the sand dunes, the little Sahara, if you will, out in the West Desert area. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: And yeah, dude, like we we had a some scary instances happen and I'm like, dude, Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: it is not a sport to like mess around with or like, you know, you just gotta be really, really careful and and whatnot. But it's Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: cool. I love hearing people, you know, talking about this and 'cause it's a fun sport. Like I totally get where you're coming from and anyways there's I have just lots of fun memories with dirt bikes and whatnot. So super, super Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: cool. Well, cool. Well, any of our listeners, if you have questions about dirt biking, obviously this is our expert. Who knew? I I knew he liked it. I just didn't know he liked it this much. So that is super cool, Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: man. It's cool that you're passionate about that. Then that's super cool that your parents were very supportive of either way. So that's awesome. So Kevin Kirk: Yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: well cool. Well, dude, let's jump in. We'll s we'll kick this off like I do for every one of my guests. the same question, you know, when did running kind of first enter your life, if you will? And, you know, some people it's been when they're a kid, sometimes it's been when they're in their teenage years, you know, hike cross country, whatever. And then some people it's been like, you know, in their adult life. But yeah, when did it first enter your life? Obviously, I don't want to put the cart before the horse and give results of what the stuff Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: you've been doing. But I would think you've been doing this forever and you've had to refine your your abilities forever. But yeah, when did it first enter your life, man? Kevin Kirk: Yeah, so my dad used to tell me like a lot of stories back in the day. the fur like one of them that I remember he he told me about like a a race where he was racing, he did cross country in high school, and he was like chasing this guy down and every time they'd climb a hill, he would pass them, every time on the downhill the other guy would pass him. I'm not sure like when that like what time frame, what age I was in that instance. but the first time that like I I raced competitively or like I remember actually being in running was in sixth grade. so in in Nevada the the grade system is a little bit different. So like K through four is our elementary school, five through eight is our middle school, and then nine through twelfth is our is our high school. So In sixth grade, well, in in the middle school, seventh and eighth graders were the only grade to be able to do sports. They didn't they didn't allow any other grades to do sports. my sixth grade teacher happened to be the the track coach that year. And we I got kind of lucky that the the seventh graders, the year above me all the way through, they they weren't really like I I mean this in the nicest way possible. They weren't really athletic. Like nobody really like wanted to do they didn't participate in sports, I guess. And so they they needed numbers and and Mr. Askins, my my sixth grade teacher, was like, Hey, like we're looking for people to do track and field. we don't have enough people, like here's what you could do, like different races, whatever. So I was like, Well yeah, like I might as well like go out for it. Like, I don't know. I don't knew nothing about running, but I ended up running like the 800 in mile. but they the way that like the league works or whatever you want to call it, we we still had to race the seventh graders. So like the sixth graders, we didn't race only sixth graders, we raced seventh graders. so we're also we were always racing a year ahead that whole track season. And like I liked it. It was fun. like I I enjoyed running. I enjoyed the mile. Like it was hard, but like it was fun. And then like Seventh grade, going into seventh grade, the the high school coach had kind of w we were in a place where we got to work out with the high schoolers, run with the high schoolers like during the week when I was in sixth grade. And going into seventh grade, there wasn't a cross country team. So we didn't have a cross country team at the middle school, but we did at the high school. And so Mr. Hunt, the high school coach, was like, No, like we I think we need to like get you in in cross country. Like we we need to get a team together. So They needed five people to do cross country. We got four and they let us they let us do it for my seventh grade year, but they said eighth grade year, like we're not gonna do it unless you guys have five. So I just was like recruiting people like crazy, trying to get people to to go out for cross country. so yeah, we started a team seventh grade year. and that was kind of like when I got competitive, I guess, just because now I was racing against the seventh graders, my own age group. and I got like I think I got third and fourth like that whole year, seventh grade year. There was a couple guys from that I just never could really beat. and then yeah, so that was like kind of the the start of it. Once we like I always liked running, but I also also played basketball at the same time and I wanted My dream was to go to the NBA. I was I was hell bent on going to the NBA. So I was using running Ryan Head: dude, that's awesome. Kevin Kirk: for as like a basically just like to try and get me ready and in shape for basketball season. even in high school, like I I played club basketball in the summer and then I played school ball in the winter. So track was great to get me ready for the summer, cross country got me ready for the for the winter, and then Basically, yeah, like going into my senior year, I went to a couple basketball camps at like UC San Diego, Point Loma, Nazarene, all kind of in the same same area. And within like the first two minutes, I I got dunked on. and I was like, man, if I if I want to go to college for for a sport, it's probably gonna have to be in running. So I was like Okay, from now on, we're like committed to running. Like we're we're gonna go all in on this and kind of see see what happens. and funny enough, there was a a guy that moved into town that ran at a Division II school in in California. And Mr. Hunt, who still was the coach, he helped me get the this team started in seventh grade, but then also was still the coach when I was there. hired hired Cruz, his name was Phil Cruz, hired him. basically just like go all in and help me like get to the get to the collegiate level, get to the next step. and then yeah, like we I still played basketball that year because I felt like I I I owed it to that coach and everybody who had put so much time and effort in into me it to develop me as a basketball player as well. But I was like, okay, like we're gonna I think we're gonna go all in on this running thing, kind of see what happens. And yeah, now we're here. So yeah. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Dude, that's crazy. Basketball, huh? So what what position did you play in basketball? Kevin Kirk: So I started out as a point guard. I was I was pretty small freshman year, so I started out as a point guard, did all the the fundamentals, dribbling, passing, all of that stuff. kind of all the way from seventh grade to like my freshman year. And then in between freshman and sophomore year, I hit a pretty big gross spurt. So I actually made varsity sophomore year. played varsity sophomore junior, senior year, whatever. and Yeah, we we made it we got second in the state my sophomore year. and we had a really good team that year and like I learned a lot from from the leaders on that team and and everything like that. and then by my senior year, so I kind of played like the two three through that that year and then junior and senior year, I actually was the tallest guy on the team. So I actually ended up playing center But we played a a really good offense where I I like we just basically drew everybody out. So I always had the big man guarding me, but I I obviously still knew how to d dribble and shoot and everything like that. So I was always at a little bit of an advantage just because I I knew how to do all the things from when I was a little bit shorter. So that was some of the most fun basketball I ever played was playing as a center because I yeah, I just yeah, it was really fun. But yeah. Ryan Head: Yeah, the for those who don't know basketball too well, the center is kind of the tall, lurpy guy a lot of times on the on the basketball court. And lately, I guess in the last ten, maybe fifteen years, i if you can be what they call a stretch five or or a center who can dribble, pass, can shoot the three, it you become dangerous very quickly. so that's kind of what Kevin's alluding to, and that's awesome, dude. I'm a huge basketball fan as well. I played growing up, I was never good enough to do anything special, but I always say Of any sport, I know basketball better than any of them. I've coached it multiple Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: times. I enjoy it like no other, but but yeah, definitely not gifted at all at it. Baseball was more Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: my sport. I I really enjoyed that. That was that was my sport, but that's cool. That's really it's fun to hear you talk about basketball because I can hear the passion coming out of you about it, and it was obviously a Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: really important part of your life, so that's super cool. was your team really big, like your cross country team and your track teams in high school, or was it Really just kinda really small to be on okay, so kind of a smaller teams. Yeah. Kevin Kirk: No. Yeah, we were we were so tiny. it was funny because I I just got back from Errington, but we were looking through like my old yearbooks and I sent the Weaver State all the Weaver State guys, I sent them a a picture of my freshman year team and there was two of us. two guys and a girl. So there was three total. and you look at some of the Utah teams and there's fifty freshmen and it's crazy. So yeah, it We were tiny. We were a really small team. I think the craziest part about the whole thing is like growing up in a small town like that, we we have two guys in the last three years, me and this guy, Tevin Stevens, that both ended up at a division one school. So it's it's kind of crazy. Like we we're not really known for running and like we have a really small team, but like the people that went all in on it. made it were pretty successful with it. So yeah, kinda crazy there. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Kevin Kirk: But yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: Yeah, that's cool. It makes it sound like that Coach Cruz, if you will, or Cruz He he really Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: helped you guys. He helped push you, and that's that's really awesome. As well as your sixth grade teacher. Yeah, that's cool. Kevin Kirk: Yep. Yeah. Ryan Head: It's like s it's funny how sometimes these things just come together, you know, in a in a unique way. So that's awesome, man. I love I I Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: love to hear that. So, how did you get to college? Like how did you get to college running? Because obviously, right, small schools sometimes, you know, you're Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: it's gonna be hard to be seen and all that, but how did 'cause you you went was it southern Utah that you went to and Initially. Was that your furs? Kevin Kirk: So I went to Utah Utah Tech. yeah, so it was it was Dixie when I was there, Dixie State when I was there, but Utah Tech now. it was it so when I first went down there as a division two school. So yeah, my my options were were a little bit limited. like I said, I kinda went all in on running maybe a little bit later than some guys. Like I didn't specialize in in only running until I mean, even senior year I wasn't super all in on it. I still played basketball in the winter. So yeah, it was like I I definitely was going into to college. I I didn't really know what to expect and I didn't really know how to get to that next level. so I literally was just sending like basically cold cold calling all of these coaches just like Looking them up, Ryan Head: Nice. Kevin Kirk: finding their email on on the like on their athletics page and then emailing them, here's my times, here's my like GPA, like, and then doing a little bit of research on the on the team, a little bit of research on on like the school itself, just so I like had some talking points there, sending them emails and then kind of going from there. So I I originally was just gonna be a walk-on at Utah Tech. So I'd reached out to Justin Decker, that's the coach down there. big shout out to him. he's actually retiring this year. But he yeah, I reached out to him. He was like, Yeah, like we'd l if you ever come down on like to look at the school, like tour the school or whatever, like we'd love to like I'd love to like show you around, get to know you, whatever. kind of like a visit, but not really a visit. So yeah, I was just gonna walk on there. The biggest thing I guess with Utah Tech was the out of state tuition was was really reasonable. So there's one school in northern Nevada, one school in Vegas. so UNR is kind of where everybody goes because it's in Reno, it's close to home, whatever. So like I was just gonna go there and not run. I was just gonna go to school there. Had some pretty good scholarships, but I I was looked into it and I was like, like even if I walk on it at Utah Tech, with the amount of like academic scholarships that I get from them, it's only gonna be like two thousand a semester. So like four thousand a year versus in state at UNR was still like six grand a year. So I'm like, like I'm saving two thousand dollars and I get to continue running. So yeah, I was like, it's a no brainer. I think like I think I'm gonna go go down there and like at least give this running thing a shot. and yeah like Getting down there, I like I said, I a lot of these guys have been running their whole lives all in on it. so made it yeah, it was a little bit intimidating, but it was it was really, really fun. Like I had so much fun. I kind of went in at a time where the team there's some injuries, there was a little bit of yeah, a little bit of madness going on where they they didn't have like a full team at the moment. So when I That spring Justin called me and was like, Hey, we're gonna cover the rest of your tuition. so Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Kevin Kirk: basically went to Utah Tech for free. I mean, I still had to pay like housing and stuff like that, but Ryan Head: Sure. Kevin Kirk: tuition and everything was covered f scholarship wise. So I was like, Well, like he took a chance on me, so like I need to kind of prove myself a little bit. and like I said, we With the injuries and stuff like that, we usually travel seven, six or seven, depending on the on the on the team and whatnot. Like but we only had seven people that were healthy. So I didn't even have to really like as long as I stayed healthy, I could just kind of focus on the running thing, focus on on kind of yeah, going all in and kind of making this my lifestyle, I guess. And yeah, so we got to travel. I think if I went And no offense to Weeber State. I love Weber State and we'll get to Weeber State. But if I went to a Weeber State as as freshman year Kev, I don't know how long I would have made it. Well, first of all, Tally wouldn't have recruited me. but second, like if I did get there and it's like, okay, we're we're traveling seven, whatever, and I and I had to fight for a spot and I I don't know how long I would have made it with that. Like The timing, I always say timing is everything and and that timing was was spot on for me because it let me focus Ryan Head: Not there. yeah. Kevin Kirk: focus on the on the actual running and not have to worry about like, okay, am I gonna travel, am I not gonna travel, that type of thing. So yeah, like kind of just went all in on it. And then I met this girl named Billy Hatch and she kind of just changed my whole perspective on on running, Like I saw her come back from an injury surgery that like so she's a year older than me in school, so when we got back to school, like she was coming back from a she got plantar fascia surgery, so she was coming back from that. And I watched her just absolutely just destroy that season. even like coming back from injury, she made it to Nationals and was like the first girl ever to make it to Nationals from from Utah Tech and I was like, Yeah, like we s We started dating that fall and I was like, she just completely changed my mindset of like running. Also, I was running a little bit scared. I will be a hundred percent honest, cause if I faltered even a little bit, she would have beat me. and yeah, so didn't want that. Couldn't couldn't let Billy beat me. there's been some times that it's been really close, Ryan. A lot of times that it's been really close. Ryan Head: Ha ha ha. Kevin Kirk: and my ego just can't take that. So yeah, Ryan Head: Dude, I I was just gonna say, I trust me, I've heard the stories. I've heard your guys' stories. I've heard it from her, I've heard it from others. So I know I know Kevin Kirk: Yeah, yeah. Ryan Head: it's it's it's somewhat competitive, but it's also it's fun. It's fun to see you two like n you know, you obviously there's you guys, you know, it's it's special between you two, but It's fun to see you two do get out sometimes too. And it's Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: fun to see you two pace each other. Like I remember on the Ten Miler, I think it Ten Mile for Winter Racing series this year, and I was like, Let's go, Billy. And yeah, it was interesting to see the two of you going. But anyways, continue. I apologize for interrupting. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. No, yeah. So she she really did change my mindset just with with running in general and yeah, I don't know, like it something I guess just clicked because I went from like yeah, being this probably fifth guy, fourth, fifth guy in my freshman year to then just being the second guy that whole next sophomore year and then the first guy junior senior year. I went from my first ever AK in college, because that's the distance that they run across country, was 2810. So I don't know what mile pace that is. It's like probably 540, something like that. but that was my very first college race to my senior year at at Utah Tech, so my fourth year there, running twenty-four five and running, yeah, it's like four fifty-two pace or something like that for and being first team all conference. And and I I really do think that that comes to like not only having surrounding yourself with with people that are like minded like Billy who is super competitive and and is really, really good at running. but then also just trusting in in in your coaches. Like I with Justin, I saw what he did with Billy. Billy, my our sophomore year was eighth in the nation. and it's like, okay, like The really the only thing different is that Billy's bought into this 'cause she's been here a couple of years. She's bought into the program. She knows exactly what's going on. and yeah, so I think just like fully trusting in your coaches is is something that can really, really make the difference in in what you do running wise. So yeah, and then transfer to Weaver State, follow Billy up to Weaver State, and then That also was kind of a mentality shift because now it's like, okay, I I established myself in my last year at Utah Tech. and now we're like kind of back to the underdog mentality a little bit. I I literally Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Kevin Kirk: underdog mentality is like my whole thing. I have a bracelet that says underdog on it. so like that's kind of my whole thing is like I've kind of always been the underdog in running specifically. I'm Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Kevin Kirk: I'm a little bit behind. All my peers, whatever, like when I was in college. And so yeah, then we went like back into this, like, okay, well, now we have something to prove. Like we have to prove prove ourselves again. and I kind of I kind of thrive on that. I kind of love that like I have something to prove mindset. Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Kevin Kirk: and yeah, and then to Weber, I was supposed to be, I erased them my last year at at Dixie. And I was like their seventh guy. So that was kind of like going in. I was like, okay, I want to be right around that, maybe a little bit better. and then it was just once once I got to to Weber and had had the guys around me, and like just the the team culture that Tally's built just made it like it was just like, yeah, it was such an easy transition. We got got right to work in the summer. And and yeah, it was ended up being kind of their number two guy by my by last year there. and yeah, I mean even pro progressed even farther w with with the running and yeah, like with my times and it was awesome. It was it was such a good time. Like and yeah, like both both schools that I went to, I feel like they both gave me opportunities. And there's there's a quote there as well that I love that's You have to take advantage of the opportunity of a lifetime in the lifetime of an opportunity, right? Like you have you only Ryan Head: Yeah, I love that. Kevin Kirk: have this you only have this opportunity for so long. So while you're there, you have to make the most out of it. Like you have to Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Kevin Kirk: put in the work, you have to make the most out of it. and yeah, I feel like I feel like if you talk to either one of those coaches, I feel like I did did just that. Like I feel like I made a maybe overeeded like their expectations, both of But yeah, like and then that just kinda gave me the confidence going forward, like just knowing yeah, after after college, post collegiate stuff. So yeah. Ryan Head: Yeah, that's awesome. Well, dude, a couple of things I want to touch on that you said and I r I really love. One is I love that you've embraced like that underdog mindset. I love that so much because I think in all reality, every one of us is an underdog, right? Like unless you Kevin Kirk: One hundred percent. Yeah. Ryan Head: unless you are number one and you're projected to be number one and you know, you're whoever out there or you know you look at the race standings you're like hey like we're all underdogs and so it's like embrace that mindset be like dude I'm gonna give everything I have I'm all in training wise like I'm gonna be pushing myself each day because who knows maybe this will be my day and I could do something special and I I think that I love that you say that because I think so many of us accept that like I'm not good enough so I'm not gonna train I'm gonna train like I'm just good enough and and you do that Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: I think that's where you you kind of short yourself. The other thing that I really love that you said too is that goes hand in hand with this is just this is your time, this is your opportunity. Why don't you take because this you know you only have so much time to do something, and and just like you said, like for me, this is how I have felt like about my ultras is people are like you're nuts for doing you know the Wasach 100, and then two weeks later you're doing the Bear 100. Like, that's nuts. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: And I'm like, listen, this is my time right now to be able to do this. I don't know if I'll always be. Be able to do this. Actually, matter of fact, I know Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: I'm not gonna be able to. That door will close eventually, and when it does, that time has sailed in my life. So while I can, I'm gonna train like I can. I'm gonna push myself so I can and become whatever that is, and and just see where I can go with it. And so I love those two mindsets. Like I love that you share that. And then last but not least, as a running coach myself, I do have to say I love what you say. You're like, you know, you gotta just trust the coach. Coaches, you gotta trust your coaches. They know Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: you buy into what they're doing, good things happen. And right, I'm not obviously a collegiate coach, I'm not a high school coach. I just I coach people on the side. But it's so funny when I'm like, if you trust the process, like I promise, I'm not I'm not just guessing, I'm using scientific methods, proven methods. I'm checking your data, I'm running it in training peaks. Like I know where your fatigue levels all are, I know where your fitness levels are, I see what's happening, like trust the process. I love you say that because Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: these guys, the core mentalities of the world, your coaches don't. Down at Dixie, like these guys are good. Like, they don't have these jobs, they're not paid. Whatever it is that they pay these, you know, the universities pay these guys because they're mediocre. They're good at what they do, they're fast, they know how to get people faster, they know how to compete. I mean, obviously, Billy has done a fantastic job. She bought in. Look what she became when she was there. Just fantastic stuff. I think it's so cool to see that from you guys. And I love that mindset as well. That you're like, dude, you gotta buy in, you try. trust that you gotta trust that they know what they're doing. And obviously, yes, are there people out there that don't know what they're talking about? Of course. And I heaven knows I know a Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: lot of them myself and it's frustrating to work with them or hear people that work with them. But at the end of the day, like you gotta do what feels best with you. And then if you feel like you're getting the results that you feel like you can get then great. That's awesome. So that's Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: awesome. I love that you say all that. I think such good advice for so many people. So not to get too sentimental but so where did Kevin Kirk: No. Ryan Head: things go with What where did things go with Billy? I mean obviously she was an important part in your life. What happened there with her? Kevin Kirk: like from from Utah Tech to now? I guess or like Ryan Head: Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. Kevin Kirk: I yeah, maybe maybe not till now. I guess spoiler alert I'm I married her and I have a child with her, but yeah. Yeah, I mean there was Ryan Head: Yeah, so Woo! Let's go! There we there we go. That's awesome. Kevin Kirk: definitely there was definitely some ups and downs. for for two years we did distance, so she moved up to to Weaver She graduated from Dixie in in three years and then like I said, she was a year older than me in in school. So yeah, we we basically only did two years at Utah Tech together. and then COVID hit and she moved up to to Weeber. I stayed at at Utah Tech, so I stayed there for for two more years. so we did two years of distance. So that was a little bit of a I wouldn't say a a tricky time, but it it it yeah, it was definitely a little bit it it definitely tested us a little bit just because when we both started racing again and and everything like that, like when COVID kinda passed and we were all racing. We were going to different meets, so we weren't seeing each other at meets and then like I'd race on one weekend, she'd race on the next weekend. So that we'd go a couple months without seeing each other just because we we had other stuff that we were doing, like we were both working, we both had school, everything like that. So it I mean it was yeah, it definitely came down to communication and stuff like that. But then once I got to Weaver, yeah, it kinda evened itself out a little bit better. yeah. And now We a kid and yeah, it's it's been awesome. She's Ryan Head: It's awesome. Kevin Kirk: like it's yeah, like it's it's crazy when they say, like, you marry your best friend, like, yeah, she's literally my best friend. She's and like she's also like my biggest supporter, and I'm her biggest supporter. Like it's I will say it's really nice knowing that when I go for a run, like she understands that, she gets that, like she we we both kind of understand that, but I think the biggest thing is like getting to share moments through running with her. whether that's like we went to Dallas a couple of years ago and and raced a half marathon together, like, well, I raced my race, she raced her race, and like we got to the finish and like we both got third place and it was like, I don't know, just like little moments like that or like going and watching her get eighth in the nation. Like that was that's one of the all time memories that I have. like that one was so awesome or like her being there for St. George. So like Stuff like that is just like it it makes it so awesome, knowing that like we're both gonna support each other no matter what. Ryan Head: and I didn't mean to make it too sentimental. You're like, What do you want me to talk about here? Do you want to talk about us getting married? I don't know what you want, Ryan, for me, but it's just funny because it's just Yeah. Yeah. Kevin Kirk: Well, I will say I will say, Justin Decker, our our coach at Utah Tech, he did marry us. And we're the only Ryan Head: cool. Kevin Kirk: shout out to everybody else, we're the only couple that he's ever married and he's had like seven or eight couples that have got married. and he All of them have asked him for that and he said no. So we're yeah. A little bit of a flex there, but like whatever. Yeah. Ryan Head: You let's go. Heck yeah. yeah. That's awesome. I love that. I love that. Well, I I just bring up I bring up Billy just because, you know, I think not only you, but she is a has a big impact on this community. I think a lot of people are inspired by her as well. And you know, maybe one day I'll convince her to be on the podcast. We'll see. We'll see. I don't she does she doesn't like the limelight. She's all very Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: much like my wife in that way. my wife is like, do not put me in the limelight. I want nothing to do with it. Like, that is not my deal. And anyways, I just am always like, she has a wealth of knowledge and she's she's a fantastic runner but anyways it's just cool you guys are a power couple when it comes to running. it's cool to see what you guys are doing and I always joke we all joke all of us that run you know in this community we always joke that you guys as kids are gonna end up to be like computer nerds or something. So they Kevin Kirk: I I would take that. Honestly, I would take that. I if if Cooper ends up being a computer scientist, I would absolutely love that. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: That's awesome. He's got the jeans. He's got the perfect jeans for running, dude. He better be like all American. I don't know. Running for Oregon or something. I'm just saying. So it's cool. Well, you guys are an awesome couple. And obviously I've got to know you guys over the years. And I just think you guys are both just amazing, amazing people. So well cool, dude. We'll take. Kevin Kirk: Well we appreciate that. Yeah. We appreciate that. Ryan Head: Yeah, of course, man. Yeah. Well, you graduated from Weber finished up your time at Weber. What's happened? Give us some highlights of what you've done since. Cause dude, Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: as as I allude to with Los Angeles, I'll let you be the one, but I remember being absolutely blown away with what you did there. Kevin Kirk: Yeah, so I I knew that once I graduated that I I kinda wanted to go straight to the to the roads. I felt like the roads were kinda calling my name. and and I'd watched Billy be super, super successful on the roads. like she had just during my last semester at Weaver she qualified for the trials at at Chicago and like Ryan Head: Let's go. Kevin Kirk: Unfortunately I wasn't there. I didn't get to go to Chicago because we were racing and I was in the middle of my season as well. So I didn't get I wasn't there, which like one of the one of my biggest regrets, I guess, was not not making like more of an effort to go there. but yeah, so she had qualified for the trials. I I kind of knew like that that's the route that I wanted to go as well was to kind of go onto the roads as well. and yeah, I I had signed up for for LA. Actually, my parents bought me an entry for my birthday in October. So we'd signed up on October twenty eighth to go and do this. so LA was gonna be the debut. Really was just like, like we'll see what happens at LA. Like I'm not well yeah, we'll just kinda see what happens. and Billy raced the trials in February of that year. LA was gonna be in March, so like Went to the trials. I I I got to be there at the trials, and Billy and I are very different in an aspect of like when we're preparing for races we're very different. Like she's very much more kind of chill and I'm like I don't know, I'm more like I need to do stuff. Like I can't just sit in the hotel, like I have to like go and and be active and so like I c sometimes I forget that, like when we're like sitting in the hotel and of the US people are there and you're like Connor Mance, Clayton Young, all these guys that I like look up to are like walking by and I'm just like in awe and I'm like, Billy look at that. Like Billy look at look over there. And she's like, dude, like chill. Like let's I I don't need to be like I don't need to be at like Ryan Head: Yeah. Kevin Kirk: at all like stressed about anybody who's here. Like let me just like chill, hang out, figure it out, whatever. And then I'm like, but no, like Galen Rutt just walked by. And she's like, no, like yeah like Okay, we're done. Like you're going back to the Airbnb. Like, you're not allowed at the hotel, Ryan Head: Ha ha ha ha. Kevin Kirk: whatever. So, but yeah, like being there and like watching actually being at that race and watching it and like I don't know. It was just like I'd I wanted to go to the roads really bad after that, and like super, super motivated, whatever you want to call it, going into to LA because it was literally like. Yeah, like four weeks or five weeks after that that I that I was racing to LA. So yeah, I got to LA. I they actually I actually got into the elite field. so they actually gave my parents a refund. So I didn't get a birthday present in twenty twenty three now that I'm thinking about it, 'cause my parents bought me the the entry and then I got it refunded 'cause I yeah, I got into the elite field. So I could I didn't get a hotel or anything like that, but like I got my entry waived and then I got to start with the elites and I got to be in like the elite tent and and that was a little bit overwhelming for my first one. Like me being a a spectator and seeing it from the outside, I was like, this is sick. But then me like actually being the one that's like going to to be the one that's racing, I'm like, dude, like I'm I'm so nervous. Like I'm absolutely so nervous. So like Usually these these marathons they'll do like an elite runners meeting the day before and you like show up and you're like sitting there and like you're just like basically looking at all the people that you're gonna race and it's like a little bit overwhelming and a little bit stressful. yeah, Ryan Head: Yeah, heck yeah. Kevin Kirk: so got there, they they told me that I didn't I wasn't fast enough to get bottle support. So for bottles what they do is Depending on on the race or whatever, they'll they'll give some amount of elites a a a bottle that you can put your own drink mix, you can put your own water, whatever you want in this bottle. So like you you don't have to carry gels or anything like that. So going in, I was like, like Billy had got bottles at the trials. I so I asked about it. They were like, No, you can't have bottles, whatever. so went in kind of just carrying everything. like race time goes, I I'm carrying all my gels start throwing up really early on, like mile eleven, I'm I took a gel, start throwing up. It gets really hot. n I didn't take a single drop of water. Those of you listening, do not do that. That is the worst mistake that you can do. Ryan Head: Yeah, don't do this. Kevin Kirk: So anybody running your first marathon, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate, drink. as much water as you can without like overdoing it. but I was just like, I don't know, like all the other races that I'd done, I never like I never stopped at the aid stations. I just was always running through. So like same thing. I just was running through, didn't take water, threw up all my gels. yeah, I got really tired. the course You're kinda rolling up and down, but then you get to mile eighteen and you pass the finish line and you do an eight mile out and back to get back. And at like maybe twenty one, I stopped to go pee in a porta potty and I came out and I was like, Dude, I don't wanna run anymore. Like I still have five miles. This is I I Ryan Head: Ha ha ha. Kevin Kirk: don't wanna do this anymore. And so I made it to the turnaround point and Yeah, like I had a mile to the time turnaround point, I guess, and made it. And then there was like two guys that were walking, that were ahead of me, and they they were just like walking it in. And was like, dude, I might just join the party. Like I might just walk it in with these guys. Yeah, and then I got done and I I ran. I mean, I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know what I could run. I I was really wanting to run under 220. That was like kind of the goal. And I think I ran 223. and I like I was I was really amped it, but I I will say, like, I got done, I crossed the the finish line, but there was also another line after it, like another one of the little cord things, and I didn't know if that was the one that I was supposed to cross. So I like kind of hobbled to get over that one as well, because it was like I want my time to be as fast as possible, whatever. And then I just sat there with my hands on my knees. for probably two minutes and then somebody was like, Hey, can you like do you need help? And I'm like, Well I can't walk. So they brought in a a wheelchair, wheeled me to the end of the thing. I ended up getting I had no idea what place I was in. 'cause when I was in the porta potty I didn't know how many people had had passed. I had counted that I was in sixth, but I didn't know. Like I had no idea. And they yeah, they they confirmed that I got sixth overall at LA. I ended up later on finding out that I like so I was the second American in that race, but the guy that had beat me the American that had beat me came from the not elite race. So technically I was the top American, but they gave it like he got all the the fame and everything like that, which all the power to him. But I got the thousand dollars, so I'll I'll take that. I'll take the thousand dollars for being that. Ryan Head: Let's go. Let's go. Yeah. Kevin Kirk: yeah, and then after LA, like yeah, once I got my shoes on and I started walking, whatever, after they kicked me out of the the wheelchair, I saw my family, I saw Billy, and I said. Ryan Head: good. You're good. Kevin Kirk: Billy was like, how was that? And I said, that was the stupidest shit I've ever done in my entire life. And she was like, okay. And I said, I'm never doing anything like that ever again. So, and she was like, Are you serious? I'm like, no, that was so like that was so dumb. I would like, I'll never do another marathon. went and got some food. I was I was a little bit delirious, I will say. I all I wanted was chocolate and and There was no chocolate, so that was kinda crazy. yeah. And then we stupid enough, we went to Disneyland the next day and as we were like waiting in line, I can't even remember what what ride it was for, but we were waiting in line at like maybe it was Big Thunder Mountain. I'm like sitting there and I'm like, All right, Billy, so like what fall marathon should I do? And she's like, I thought you were never doing those Ryan Head: Let's go. Kevin Kirk: again and I said, I Yeah, maybe maybe I'll give it another go. and then yeah, we I went to Twin Cities that October. And that was like that was kind of my breakthrough race, I would say. I mean I had a couple races in the summer that like were like hinting that I could be that I could run semi fast. and then I ran two sixteen thirty-three there. and I was tenth in that race. And that one was like, okay, like that was that's probably all time raced there. like just yeah, I I I don't even know how to explain it. I would loved if I could explain it, I would try and replicate it as many times as possible. I just I don't know what happened, what like I had two guys from a school that I raced when I was at Utah Tech, which is kind of a full circle moment 'cause these guys absolutely Ryan Head: Yeah. Kevin Kirk: destroyed me my freshman year. and beat me by like four minutes and a 10k and I was like running with these guys like stride for stride and it was just like so cool. yeah I like I would love to replicate that again because I don't know what happened, what I like, yeah, but it was awesome. I like never never really felt tired. Like even at the end, I was like walking perfectly fine after I had to carry my my gels again that one as well. but I did get into the elite field but I had to carry gels there as well. And then we went and did like a escape room with my sister. She's a big Scooby-Doo fan, so we went and did a Scooby-Doo escape room and like I Ryan Head: Heck yeah, that's cool. Kevin Kirk: was in like the I was in the right mind space to like actually help out in that and I was like I yeah like I I don't really feel like I ran a marathon. But like I yeah so I don't know just the flow state I guess. But yeah that was like kind of the breakthrough, the the big first breakthrough. and then after that one I went to Boston in twenty twenty five. And Boston was unlike anything I've ever done. That one's Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Kevin Kirk: that one's also a like a number one, like or maybe that's one A, one B as far as like all time moments. 'cause that Ryan Head: Heck yeah, of course. Kevin Kirk: one was just so sick. such a cool race. I was thirty third overall. And 21702 in that one. and then the last couple have been a little bit lackluster up like as far as like my standards go. They're I you have to put everything in perspective and and I I have gotten pretty good at putting stuff in perspective, but like there's also a thing where you have these expectations of what you think that you're capable of and And when you fall short of those expectations, like it's in your head, you're just like, that's lackluster. That's not what I'm capable of. but yeah, so I ran CIM in the fall, and then I ran Glass City Marathon in the spring of this year. Yeah, and then the next one's gonna be Toronto. So I have Toronto in October. and we'll see where we Hopefully we can get an OT Q. I'm thirty three seconds Ryan Head: Yeah. Kevin Kirk: off of it from from my twin cities time, so I'm hoping that we can get it, but we'll see what happens. yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: That's That's awesome. Well, a couple of thoughts that I have just as you're, you know, you're telling us these stories. First off, I I'm dying over here when you're talking about LA and you're like, I'm never doing this crap again. And I've had I've had that happen twice in Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: in my running career. you know, my very first marathon, same experience. And I honestly think like everybody has that same experience almost like you did. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: right? I remember coming out of the canyon or like maybe a mile from the canyon on Ogden and I was like, I'm gonna die. Like I full on was like I think this is it. Like I because I like you, I took no nutrition. I didn't well at least you knew to take gels. I took no nutrition and no hydration. So I'm getting to mile 21 Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: and dude, I'm like, I think I'm dying. And I I started getting like really scared and I was like, dude, this isn't good, and I still remember the HC. Lady who is like their first attent or whatever, she's like, Hey, come here, and I was Nope. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: She's Come on, come here. And I was like, Nope. And she's like, I need you to come sit down. And I was like, I'm okay. Anyways, yeah. I mean, I've Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: told that story a few times on this pod, but that was scary, dude. Like, and I remember I remember getting the finish line, crossing the finish line. I'm like, I'll never do this again. Like, that was so stupid, like, so Kevin Kirk: Yep. Mm-hmm. Ryan Head: dumb. Anybody that thinks these are fun, like, I don't get it, it makes no sense. And then, of course, back back in the day in 2018, if you Well, back in the day, but Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: Ogden Marathon would send their 50% off registration for that weekend. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: They'd send an email that night, and you're like, dude, do I want to do it again? And sure enough, Sunday night, day after Ogden, I'm re-signing back up, dude. And I've done it done it every Kevin Kirk: Yep. Ryan Head: year since. So, but on first hundred miler, same experience. I got to the end and I'm like, I'm never doing this again. That was so stupid. And yet again, yet again, next day I'm Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Here you are. Ryan Head: like, dude, yeah, I'm like, I gotta go back, I gotta do it. Again, like that was too much freaking fun. So, dude, so awesome. Love hearing all these stories from you. You know, a couple of questions I just want to throw at you. And Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: you know, if you're like, I don't want to give away the trade secrets, that's totally fine. What would you say to someone that asks you, like, dude, how do I get faster? Let's say someone like me, I'm a 330 marathoner, right? Like, I'm just average, right? I'm and I'm okay with being average. But if I was like, dude, I want to get to 320, what would I need to do to like make that happen? What would you advance? advice to someone to get a little bit stronger or a little bit faster, if you will. Stronger's probably the right word too as well. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. I mean, I think consistency is is the name of the game to start with. I think that being consistent and and being disciplined. my good friend Connor likes to say motivation is less than discipline. So discipline is is always gonna be there where motivation is gonna fade. so like If you can be disciplined when it comes to to your running and and staying consistent as much as you can, that's that's the biggest thing. I would say if you're looking for one specific like workout or one specific yeah, like strength within running, I would say your biggest thing is gonna be the the long run is the is the most important part if you're looking for marathon specific work, And then also do your strides. strides are are are really, really important. yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: I love that you I love that you say this because me and Tim talked about this on the very last episode. This exact same Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: thing that you said. And again, ladies and gentlemen, we have someone who is an elite on here. And anybody who Kevin Kirk: Yes, yes. Ryan Head: disagrees with this, because there are people who disagree with what me and Tim said, that's okay. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. We have someone who is 219, 217, right? He's absolutely crushing it. And this is exactly what he's saying. It's about doing the long runs, doing the speed work in those, do your strides. want to get faster, you gotta run fast. Like that's the name of the game. That's why that's why I was like kind of cueing you up if you will. because Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: it's so good to hear someone say that that actually lives this because it's the some of the weirdest stuff out there and I'm not here to pick apart anybody I'm not trying to be a jerk but man I hear some of these ways people come up with to get faster and I'm like guys there's the reality is you've got to be like you said consistent volume Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: And do the speed, like it's what it comes down to. If you're not doing that, you're not gonna get faster. So it's baffling, Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: baffling to me. So that's awesome. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: Well, dude, you said something to me a few maybe it was like two or three weeks ago, maybe it was a month, whatever it was, and it hit really deep, and it kind of goes along with what this whole podcast is about, right? I always talk about why we do all this, why, Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: why, why run? And you said something to me that hit really deep, and I haven't stopped thinking about it for weeks because as As you know, I'm coming up on my two races, my two big races. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: They're both I don't know which one's the A race, they're both A races. but You know, you said something about are you still having fun with all this? And Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: I don't want to give that story away too much, but why dude? Why do you do all this? Like, obviously, I'm sure it's not, you know, just candy canes and lollipops all the time. I'm sure there's days where you're like, I'm hurting so bad right now, and why Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: do I keep pushing myself through this crap? Why, dude? Why do you do all this? Why is it why is it so important to you? Kevin Kirk: Yeah, I I guess it's just really to see how how far I can I can go and like I want I want to be the best that I can that I can be. but I I also do really enjoy it. Like running is Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Kevin Kirk: is really fun. Like I mean, yeah, like you said, there's there's days when it really sucks. Running's not always gonna be fun, but like it it is really I don't know it it's the reward that I I really enjoy. I enjoy like getting done with the long run and being like, like I just did that. like but also at the same time, yeah, like I I think the the biggest thing is like seeing how far I can go and and what level I can take this to. We we kind of you kind of talked about it a little bit where with that underdog mentality earlier where it's like if you're at this level, you always wanna be one step higher. Like, even if you're the top guy, you're like, well, I wanna break this world record. Like I've gotten to know Connor Mance and like even him best American ever, arguably whatever you wanna s say about it, like, he's like, well, I haven't podiumed at a at a world major. So like That's my next goal. That's what I want to do. So it's always chasing that next goal, that next step, that next tier of of runners or whatever you want to call it. but I guess that's like my biggest thing is like just wanting to see how far I can climb that ladder for lack of better terms there. Ryan Head: That's awesome. No, I think, and you're a great example of that. I really mean that because it's cool to see all the stuff that you're doing. You keep pushing yourself. And it's fun to see like on Strava, trust me, we all talk about you in a good way, not in a bad way, but we all we talk Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan Head: about you in a good way, and we're all dude, you see what Kevin did? And I'm like, Yeah, I did see. I saw it on Strava, trust me, I'm fully aware. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: And and it's just really cool to see that you're constantly pushing yourself, and that's why like one, I w I really wanted you on the podcast. You were always one of those people I've wanted to have on from day one. but two, it's just cool because you inspire so many of us who probably will never be anywhere near as fast as you, and that's okay. But you inspire us to be better. You inspire us to be like, hey, try a little bit harder. one of my favorite memories of you, it was so funny. it was two winters ago. So not this winter, but it isn't 2025. Kevin Kirk: Okay. Ryan Head: You came to one of the group runs and you were just coming through, you were just like, hey guys, how's it going? Type of thing. And like you took off. And dude, you had like perfect form. And I don't even think you were trying that hard, but you're like, your form was like spot on. And I'm like, I hate that guy. And we're Kevin Kirk: No Ryan Head: all laughing. I'm like, dude, look at his form. I'm so jealous. I'm like, that is such bullcrap. And I'm like, but Kevin Kirk: Well. Ryan Head: but you you do the work. And you because you do the work and you're you're committed 100%, you deserve to have the rewards. You you deserve to enjoy what comes your way. And like you said, I know you're also like, Ryan, but I'm always trying to be better, and that's awesome. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: Awesome. But for all of us from the outside looking at you, we're like, dude, this guy is legit. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: Like, he is he's insane. But it's cool that you always have that that Kobe Bryant mindset, if you will, of like, hey, like, I I I still gotta get better every day. I gotta show up to the gym at four o'clock every morning. I'm hitting the weights before everybody else, and then I'm going to practice. I've already practiced five hundred free throws before anyone else gets there. And it's like, yeah, dude, now I'm ready to go. Like, let's go now. Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: I think that mindset is just amazing, and you you're a good example of that because we all see what you're doing and we're like, dude, he's putting down the hundred mile weeks week in, week out. Like he deserves to be what he is. So it's super cool. Yeah, dude, Kevin Kirk: I appreciate that. Yeah, I appreciate that. Ryan Head: of course. One one last story I'd love for you to touch on, and I know I kind of alluded to it a little bit, but you know, like I said a few weeks ago, you were telling me about how your dad had had talked to you about like are you still having Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: fun with this? And I love to for you to share people share with us because usually one of the questions I ask is what would you say to someone who's lost their why? That's the one of the that's always my last question, but I think this goes hand in hand with this and and I know we're kind of getting to the end of the episode, but but I'd love for you to share that story because that that story really hit deep with me. I was so grateful that you you shared that. But yeah, share that story with us. I'd love to for you to tell ever tell our audience about that. Kevin Kirk: Yeah, so it I I guess it kinda goes back to my dad and I, after Glass City. so that would have been in April. But I think I think it really goes back to beginning of October of last year. as you guys know I talked about him already, but we have a one year old now named Cooper. And so last year the plan was to go and do St. George Marathon and then CIM in the in the fall. And I I made the decision kind of early, meh, probably early August. I had sent out an email asking if I could switch from the full St. George down to the half. just like I was kind of struggling with with r like not necessarily running, but just like yeah, Just tired. I was we have a newborn, like trying to figure out training, trying to figure out like life, everything like that. So yeah, it was it was a little bit I I I don't want to say overwhelming just because like I I love this life that I have and I love that like that was such a great time in my life. but like it was a little bit like man, like there's so much going on. So Yeah, I made that decision to drop down to the to the half and literally the week before St. George, which was another one of my breakout races, but literally a week before that I had a little bit of a meltdown. I I was supposed to do a workout, supposed to do like ten miles at like marathon pace, which usually those workouts tend to be a little bit faster than marathon pace, just because it's like That's like my bread and butter. That's like my favorite type of workout. So yeah, I was supposed to go ten miles and I did I think two and a half around the pond at twenty first street and I just like sat down in the underneath a tree and I was just like I I was just crying my eyes out. I was like, dude, like I what am what am I doing? Like this is like this isn't even worth it anymore, like whatever. Got back to the car, texted Billy, and I was like, A I think I'm like I think I'm gonna call it like I don't I don't think I wanna r like run Saint George. I don't know. I'm just yeah, I'm not having fun. Like it's not like the running has always been this like maybe a little bit of an escape where like I can go and and gather my thoughts and whatever. and like it was no longer doing that. Like I was just like, man, it's hard, it it sucks, this is this isn't fun. And yeah, so I like sitting there Texted Billy that she was like, Okay, come home, let's talk about this. Like, we'll be okay. I think she I think her exact words were, I'd have to pull it up, but I think her exact words were, Are we being a little bit dramatic? And I was like, Well, definitely we're being dramatic, but whatever, yeah. So I Ryan Head: Yeah. Kevin Kirk: got home, we sat down and we talked. And at this point, so with my training last year, I CIM isn't until December and I started a little bit earlier than I normally would. I started like literally 26 weeks out for a build because I knew that we were gonna have Cooper at some point. And I kind of wanted to have a little bit of a base and then take some downtime and then kind of build back up. Well, once we had Cooper, again going back to Billy being so supportive, like she she was like, like when he's sleeping, like you're fine, like you over on. So Now we're stretched this out. Like now we're like too far in where we can't like just now we're gonna call it. So I actually averaged a hundred and three miles for twenty six weeks going into CIM. So I was not I was yeah, like so this week we're we're in the middle. We're like I think we're nine weeks in or no, we were like I guess we were probably twelve weeks in at this point. So I'm like I'm already kind of tired. I know that there's no end in sight, whatever. Billy's like, okay, let's take a down week. Let's take a down week into St. George. Let's just kind of see what happens at St. George. Like we already have the hotels, everything. We're gonna go to St. George. You can race the half. Popped off at the half, ran an hour and twenty-one seconds, whatever. Utah record. I was ecstatic about that. That was I was so so happy. And I was like, Kept thinking like, man, like I don't know how I did that coming off of like not being able to finish a workout that I should be able to do pretty easily, whatever. And then r fast forward to CIM, have a again, lackluster day in my in my opinion. I think I ran like 220. I don't even know the official time. I I I didn't even look to be a hundred percent honest. Ryan Head: Ha ha ha. Kevin Kirk: Somewhere in the two twenties, I don't know. And I like the last five miles of that were so hard and I was like, I just wanna quit. But now Cooper's here and like I can't I can't let I can't let him see me just like, when it gets hard, I'm just gonna quit, whatever. So then we I wanted to take some time off. I wanted to hit the OTQ so I could take some time off and not not have to like fully trained, I was I was exhausted, but I didn't hit the OTQ, so we're like, K, let's sign up for another one and let's go again. So signed up for Glass City, took took a couple of weeks to kinda reset and then started a build these winter builds in Utah, we got really lucky last year, but it's a little bit hard mentally just with like the the darkness and everything like that. And anyways we got to got to Glass City. Again, I think I ran like 221. I think it was like 2126. I think I only know that because there was a guy that ran two five in that race, and I keep getting brought up as like, this guy's like a two sixteen guy, but he ran two twenty one. anyways. we're sitting in the Airbnb after and I like I was pretty upset, I will say, like, yeah, I I my emotions can sometimes get a little bit high when it comes to like running 'cause I know what I'm capable of and like I yeah, like I just felt like I wasn't performing and so I'm like sitting there and I think we were watching dirt bikes actually. dirt bikes are always on Saturday and I think we were it was like my dad and I I think my mom was sleep and it was just my dad and I watching dirt bikes and he was like I was like talk kind of talking, like throwing the idea around about like what one I should do in the fall and he was like Hey, like, are you still having fun? Like, are we having fun doing this? Like, and I'm like, and I didn't have a clear answer at that moment, but I like I was like, no, like I'm not. Like, this is this isn't fun. Like, first of all, I hate losing more than anything. And I just got second and this guy just ran an absolute like the fastest debut ever on me. Like, literally on my head, and I'm like, I I know I shouldn't be able to run what he ran, but like I hate losing. So I'm like, yeah, no, like I'm not having fun. and then he just was like, well, like, what what do we need to do to get you to like back to having fun? Like what like what's the do we need to take more downtime? Do we need to like let's focus on let's not focus on who's gonna be at these races, if it's a fast enough course, if you can OTQ, all this stuff, like just Go back to like, let's go to a place that you wanna go, let's go to a place that like you think you'll have fun. because yeah, like y you started doing this because running was fun and like you enjoyed the actual aspect of running. And like I guess somewhere along the lines that like it you kind of lose lose track of that a little bit because you you have these expectations or you have these these goals that you wanna hit or like you feel like you need to hit. And yeah, so like I guess it just comes back to like, yeah, back to your why essentially and like why did you start doing this? And like what makes it where you're you're having fun. I mean my dad was the one that that told me stories about him running and like got kind of got me into running to be a hundred percent honest. Like I said, my my parents are awesome. they could care less what I what time I run I think more so my dad just wants me to be happy and wants me to have fun doing whatever I'm doing. Whatever if I chose dirt bikes, like I think you'd just want me to have fun. I don't think you would care if I was winning or whatever. And so like, yeah, I guess it it all kind of gets put in perspective from like their point of view, like, like, we can definitely tell that you're not having fun. So like, what do we need to do to get you back to having fun? So, yeah, I don't know. It's it's been The summer's always more fun than the winter. I will I'll I will say that. Fall marathons are always a little bit more fun because you you have more daylight. But yeah, we chose Toronto because I've never been out of out of the country. So we're we're going to Toronto. We have plans to like go see Niagara Falls and we're like and like I said, it comes back to like the way that I prepare for stuff. I I can't I'm not a serious person. I can't be serious like And even back to my high school days, like if I was like, I need to I'm super serious about this race, I'd always not perform well. Like it's always I've always performed better when I'm having fun. I've always performed better when it's like we're we're doing stuff beforehand, we're hanging out with the boys or whatever it is, like that's always what makes it more fun. And like I usually have better performances off of that. So That's what we're kinda that's the mindset for t the rest of 2026, is yeah, let's let's have some fun with it. Yeah, so. Ryan Head: Dude, I love I love that. I l I do. And I'm so glad you shared that because that really p kinda puts the whole your whole racing season all together, right? So far up to this point. And what I love about it is, you know, you you've kind of come full circle, if you will, on like what's been working, what hasn't worked. And I love that you're like, Ryan, I I want to be having fun. And what does that mean Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: to you? And 'cause like when I talk to my athletes or talk to friends or whoever, I'm like Listen, like only one person gets to win this. And Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: whoever that is, they're amazing, they're great, whatever. And then there are a few people who can challenge like you. But if you're like, you know, right now I'm not, my my mindset's probably not there, then set a goal that's realistic or one that's still gonna stretch you. Like you said, like let's go for Olympics, like let's do this, let's go for the trials. Like, that's gonna be the new goal. Like, we don't necessarily need to be winning. I don't need to compare myself to this person or that person. Like, I'm just gonna I'm gonna shoot for this. This is what it's gonna be, and I don't care what happens with the Those other people. they great, great. Good on them. If they do awful, sorry, they didn't do great. Whatever. You know, but like I love that you say that. I think that's so important and so deep because I think so many times we're like, we especially on race day, you start looking around and you're like, man, I gotta compete against this person or that person, or I want to be as fast as that person. And it's like, dude, just go do you. Go do you today. Like, focus on you, do your training, stick to your training block. Who cares if someone's, you know, in my world, who cares if someone's getting 20, 25,000 feet of every week. that's that's not always you don't necessarily need to do that. It's more about are you good on the technical stuff? Are you good climbing? You know, do you have the strength Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: put in? And anyway, so there's just there's this whole mindset and I just love that you brought that up. I think you say so much like such great advice right through everything you just said there. And I'm like perfect because I think so many people compare themselves to others and I always say comparison is a thief of joy. Like Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: like you like especially like from all of us looking at you dude I've said it already once I'll say it again. We all think you're amazing. Like we all do. We're like, holy cow. Like, yeah, we all Kevin Kirk: Well yeah, I I appreciate it. Ryan Head: think, dude, if we could be like Kevin, like what would it be like, right? And I know to you you're like, well, I want to continually be better and I gotta keep pushing myself. But I love that you've recognized that. I love that your dad had that conversation with you. And I a hundred percent agree with you. It's how I look at my kids. I know it's how you're gonna look with at your boy. Like, you know, I want them to be happy. I don't care if they're the best. I don't want them Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: to hate life. I want them to find joy. I want them to just be happy. And Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: Whatever that whatever that happiness is is great for them because like I I agree with you like my parents would always my parents are like Ryan, we don't care if you run like do you do running at all? We don't care if you run hundreds, we just want you to find happiness in this life, and whatever that looks like, please find that as you know, as long as it doesn't deal with drugs or whatever, something awful like that. Like, we just want you Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: to be happy. And I'm like, Yeah, mom and dad, like I really appreciate you guys saying that because that that means a lot to have those reality checks once in a while. So, anyways, just cool, man. I think it's that's super awesome. Well, dude, you've done such a great Great job getting us to like just a fun spot. You've done a great job. You know, way I always like to end this, it's kind of a fun thing. It's the lightning round questions. Are you up open to answering some lightning round questions for us? Okay. Kevin Kirk: Let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. Ryan Head: Awesome, dude. Well, it's always fun for me because it's just fun to get people's thoughts. And again, maybe half of these already know the answers too, but it'll be good for our listeners. most people know who you are, but those maybe outside the state or or you know, because this this podcast, I'm I'm pretty blessed. It's been growing quite a bit, a little bit bigger than I thought, so it's kind of been awesome. So some new people outside the state will get to know you and and definitely give him a follow on either Instagram or Strava as well, and I'll put that in the show notes. But okay, lightning round questions. First one favorite race distance. Mm-hmm. Kevin Kirk: It's between the half and the full. I'm gonna go full even though yeah, I'm gonna go full. Yeah. Ryan Head: Nice, nice dude. I still to me the the my favorite is is a half marathon. I'll always love that distance, but I do love marathon. It's a very close second, but man, nothing funner for me than just running the f the you know the a half. I'm like, dude, I can go crazy on that. So I can I can hurt that long and still come out feeling okay. So cool. Kevin Kirk: Yeah, that's yeah. Ryan Head: Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, next question: road or trails? Kevin Kirk: even close. Not even close. I would Ryan Head: Not even close. Kevin Kirk: I'll never yeah, not even close. Nope. Roads all the way. Ryan Head: I I tease Billy so much about she would be such a phenomenal trail runner, even though she thinks I'm full of crap. And I feel the same way about Kevin. I think if they gave it an opportunity, anyways I'll stop. I'll stop, but I think they would be so good. Kevin Kirk: Nope. Mm mm. Nope. Nope. I would not be a good trail runner. You can ask anybody on the team. I would nope. I would not be a good trail runner. That's why we s that's why we Ryan Head: That's awesome. Kevin Kirk: chose the roads. Yep. Ryan Head: Yeah, that's awesome. I know when you were like, I really just lean towards like I felt my colleague was in and around time smiling over here. I'm like, that's good, it's good. So that's awesome. Okay, morning or evening runs. Kevin Kirk: how early in the morning are we talking? Just Ryan Head: As early as you want. Kevin Kirk: yeah no, evenings. Yep. Ryan Head: Okay. No, that's awesome. I I'm a morning guy 'cause I hate the heat, especially in the summer, but but yeah, I evening runs have their place. That's what I always say. Evening runs has a good place, so cool. On your runs, or races, music, podcasts, or silence? Kevin Kirk: okay, I'm I'm going through this phase right now. Well, I went through this phase like last year where I just listened to my dirt bike podcasts while I ran. But then I saw Ryan Head: Nice. Kevin Kirk: this I saw this tweet that said you have to callous the mind. and like basically if 'Cause I c I can't listen to to music while or like anything while I'm racing, just because if you wanna qualify for the trials, you can't have any extra aiding, so you can't listen to music. So that's like a rule. So basically I saw this thing that said like, yeah, if you w like you have to callous the mind. So if you're not gonna run with stuff like headphones or anything like that, you have to like practice the like mental side of that as well. So now I'm in this phase where like I only let myself listen to podcasts when I'm on like a three mile double run or a four mile run where I'm only out there for like thirty minutes. That's the only time Ryan Head: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kevin Kirk: I can listen to podcasts. So other than that, silence. Or Ryan Head: Nice. Kevin Kirk: or alternate alternative answer, running with friends and having conversation is way better than any of those. Ryan Head: Heck yeah. Yeah. I've had a few people say the same thing. They're like, you don't give the option of running with friends and talking. I'm like, I know, I know. That that one's always the in my opinion, Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: I agree. That one's the best of all of But Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Ryan Head: I love it. So, okay. One one question I always like to throw on top of that is, throw some love out. What pot what podcast are you listening to? dir dirp Kevin Kirk: it's Ryan Head: dirt dirt bike podcasts. If anyone's interested, Kevin Kirk: It's call Ryan Head: here you go. Kevin Kirk: so it's called the Pulp X show. it's a five hour show. They just talk dirt bikes, they talk, they have like their own guests come on and talk about the races. I actually got shouted out on there once. a little side note. Ryan Head: Let's go. Kevin Kirk: one of the like pro racers was in Vegas when I ran like the half marathon and he's a big runner now. He's an ex pro racer. He was running he just like kinda bandited the just jumped in like the one side and I was like, I'm pretty sure that that was Jeremy Martin. So I like tagged him on my Strava and then they like told the story on the Pulp MX show and it was they're hilarious, so it was it was really good. they didn't call me by name, but yeah, so Pulp MX show. It's a five hour show, like I said. It's if you're not into dirt bikes it's Probably not for you 'cause it's a it's a pretty pretty hard to listen even for me sometimes. So yeah. Ryan Head: I love it, dude. That's awesome. Okay, no, fair enough. I love it. that's cool that you got you shouted out. That's really awesome. Okay, one last lightning arm question. It's kinda been a fun one that I've been throwing in, just silly. Cats or dogs? Kevin Kirk: neither. I'm not really I'm not really Ryan Head: Neither I had this feeling you were gonna say that. my gosh. Kevin Kirk: a an animal person to be a hundred percent honest. Ryan Head: That's awesome. Kevin Kirk: yeah, I mean if I had to choose dogs or cats, I'd probably choose choose a cat just because dogs I'm not a big fan of dogs, especially when I'm running because they Ryan Head: Yeah. Kevin Kirk: like to chase ya. yeah. Ryan Head: yeah. Kevin Kirk: So I'd I'd ha I'd probably choose cat, but don't let Billy hear that because she's been trying to get us to have a kitten. So I neither. but if I had to I would go cats. So yeah. Ryan Head: Third. Nice, nice. I hear you about the dogs, man. Unfortunately, I've known too many of our good friends in this community who've been bitten. And dude, it just wrecks. It can wreck you for seasons. Not just one season, seasons. So it's Kevin Kirk: Yeah. Yep. Ryan Head: insane. So awesome. Well, dude, anything else you want to share with us? This has been awesome. This has been a fantastic episode. I've loved where this went. Dude, you've been it's been fun. It's lively. I love where I just I I might have to have you come on again in the future because, dude, you're you're a blasting. Kevin Kirk: Yeah, you got Ryan Head: have Kevin Kirk: it. Ryan Head: on. It's been I love your energy. I love your mindset with all this. So dude you you've been fun. But yeah, anything else you want to share with us? Kevin Kirk: Yeah, I don't have anything else. good luck to all Ryan Head: Awesome. Kevin Kirk: of you guys. whatever races you're doing this fall. Good luck in all of those. Whatever if it's not until the spring again, good luck there. good luck with the winter training. It's starting to feel like fall a little bit, so good luck with Ryan Head: It does. Kevin Kirk: the colder weather. Ryan Head: awesome. Well cool. Kevin. Dude, it's been so awesome having you on. Thank you, thank you, thank you for making time out of your day to do this. And we'll go ahead and wrap it up, man. Coach Ryan Head: Hey runner, thanks for hanging out with me today on Reimagine Running. I'm grateful you're here and a part of this great podcast. I just want to remind you, if you ever feel stuck and unsure or just want someone in your corner, I do offer coaching for runners at any distance, whether you're starting out with the 5K or you're chasing some crazy big goals and dreams like the marathon or the 100 miler, I'd love to help you. Please reach out and I'd be happy to set up a time to go over options and plans and goals with you. Well, until next time. Take care of yourself, trust the process, stay disciplined and keep chasing that Y.