Latest / Authentic Living / Prevention Costs Less than a Disability Claim with Employee Engagement Expert, Jackie Faulkner

Transcript

Prevention Costs Less than a Disability Claim with Employee Engagement Expert, Jackie Faulkner · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we conscious conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:12
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:37
  It's, Roxanne Derhodge of Authentic Living with Roxanne.
• 0:39
  Thanks for tuning in again.
• 0:41
  This week, I have a colleague, Jackie Faulkner, and Jackie is the president and co founder of
• 0:46
  Strive State Inc.
• 0:48
  Hi, Jackie.
• 0:49
  How are you today?
• 0:50
  Hi.
• 0:50
  I'm doing well.
• 0:51
  Thanks to Roxanne.
• 0:52
  So, Jackie, and I were, we were privileged to sit on a roundtable on inclusivity and
• 0:59
  diversity that was, through, Canada Life, and I'm gonna forget, the mental health services
• 1:07
  through Canada Life.
• 1:08
  And that was probably we're going back about 2 months ago.
• 1:11
  So, right, Jackie?
• 1:13
  Yeah.
• 1:13
  September.
• 1:14
  Yeah.
• 1:14
  September.
• 1:15
  So I'm gonna just tell you a little bit about Jackie's back and she brings a a lot of
• 1:19
  expertise in in the field of mental health.
• 1:22
  Uh-uh her firm is a management consulting company, and it's it has a vision to create a
• 1:27
  world in which everyone loves Mondays.
• 1:30
  Wow.
• 1:30
  I like that because I know most people are kind of dragging and trying to figure out Mondays.
• 1:36
  She's got over 15 years of leadership experience in community and mental health care.
• 1:41
  And, she has a passion for investing in employee mental health and ultimately
• 1:46
  strategies for businesses to flourish.
• 1:49
  She's insightful.
• 1:50
  She's a diplomatic leader.
• 1:51
  With expertise in developing organizational culture and performance management.
• 1:56
  And she's also a skilled facilitator and mediator.
• 2:00
  So, Jackie, is there anything that I missed in the bio that you'd like to kind of share with
• 2:04
  the listeners?
• 2:05
  Well, I don't think so.
• 2:07
  That probably covers all the highlights.
• 2:10
  Having worked in the fields of mental health and community services for a number of years is
• 2:16
  certainly where I developed my passion for employee mental health, which is really what
• 2:21
  propelled me towards launching Thrive State to to focus in and with the goal of helping more
• 2:29
  businesses improve mental health for their employees.
• 2:32
  So tell kind of tell me, what did you always wanna kinda help people with, mental health
• 2:39
  problems?
• 2:39
  How did you kinda take this path?
• 2:42
  To kinda end up, working with mental health.
• 2:45
  Yeah.
• 2:46
  That's a great question.
• 2:47
  So, no, not always.
• 2:49
  I think it was sort of a a journey that involved, you know, seeing, you know, people
• 2:56
  close to me, family members and, you know, colleagues, close friends struggling with
• 3:02
  mental health issues in their own way.
• 3:05
  And you know, when you have a personal relationship with somebody that you don't work
• 3:10
  with and that you see them struggling and and recognizing how work is impacting them.
• 3:17
  You know, I had a sort of those feelings of wanting to advocate on their behalf when
• 3:23
  they're struggling.
• 3:25
  And then as an employee and and manager for a number of years, in the mental health sector
• 3:33
  specifically, you know, we're always the the conversation is always about the clients.
• 3:39
  And then as I realized working with staff that a lot of staff, you know, would, identifies
• 3:46
  having lived experience with mental health as well.
• 3:48
  So you know, really, for me, it was just, you know, we have to change the conversation.
• 3:53
  It's not just about clients.
• 3:54
  It's about it is about staff, and these staff are are they're not my loved ones necessarily,
• 4:01
  but they could be because it this exists in my personal life too.
• 4:04
  So I think it was sort of culmination of all of that that led me to really want to make a
• 4:10
  difference.
• 4:12
  And, you know, it's so true.
• 4:13
  Right?
• 4:13
  Like, obviously with my, background as a psychotherapist, you know, people come to us
• 4:19
  because they need assistance.
• 4:21
  Mhmm.
• 4:21
  But we're also using governmental, faculties to assist So, obviously, like, you know, like you
• 4:28
  said, you've live you've worked with people with actually lived experience, which is a
• 4:31
  fantastic thing, that they could go out and help and and kind of assist from that space of
• 4:36
  having been through something, fresh and anxiety, those types of things.
• 4:41
  And, you know, I often say that, you know, we were when I worked for Metro Toronto Police,
• 4:47
  for instance, the things that I would see in any given shifts, Jackie, still I can remember
• 4:52
  today.
• 4:53
  Right?
• 4:53
  And I'm I'm talking 20 5 years later.
• 4:56
  Right.
• 4:57
  And so of course, she has a as the as the employee also, you recognize having been
• 5:04
  frontline and then obviously going on to different management situations and consulting
• 5:10
  situations.
• 5:10
  We all have mental well-being on our minds.
• 5:15
  Right?
• 5:15
  Because Ghana, the days where we're using our limbs anymore, and we're more in an knowledge
• 5:20
  economy today, Right.
• 5:22
  And, we're we're needing to kind of make sure that we protect, you know, what what I often
• 5:27
  used to describe to my son as the thing attached to your neck is really, really, very
• 5:32
  important.
• 5:33
  So let's talk a little bit about, what you're seeing out there.
• 5:38
  So let's talk about kind of psychological health and, safety, because I know that's your
• 5:44
  kind of your the bucket of the work that you do with companies.
• 5:48
  So what are you seeing out there with companies?
• 5:50
  Are you finding that, people are a lot more knowledgeable, or do you think that people are
• 5:55
  still kind of Reacting to crises to implement strategy?
• 5:59
  Yeah.
• 5:59
  So I would say for the most part, so far, a lot of times when we're getting called in it is
• 6:05
  because there's, you know, a very particular situation, not necessarily crisis, but a
• 6:10
  significant situation that's affecting employees that they're the owners or management
• 6:16
  are recognizing.
• 6:17
  We need some external help here.
• 6:20
  What we find though when we go in is of course, there is the situation that needs some our
• 6:27
  help, you know, to help, identify, you know, what's going on, how what's the solution, you
• 6:33
  know, how did how did it get to this point?
• 6:37
  We do, what we often recommend is to do use the guarding minds at work survey tool to establish
• 6:45
  a baseline with organizations because it's really easy when you're in that sort of crisis
• 6:52
  or problem mode to forget about all the things that you are already also doing well.
• 6:58
  So we like to Also, you know, it's not like businesses are doing everything terribly as it
• 7:06
  relates to employment or health.
• 7:08
  They're inevitably doing some of the things really well.
• 7:11
  So we want to, while we're helping them with the issues, also wanna support them in
• 7:16
  leveraging the things that they're doing well so that it's not just a bad news kind of story.
• 7:21
  And and the good news is there there often is a lot of things, you know, businesses doing
• 7:26
  really creative things or very authentic things.
• 7:29
  I know you're, you know, into that, but, you know, owners, particularly in small businesses
• 7:34
  who really care and have the type of relationship with employees where, you know,
• 7:38
  they're helping them, in the evenings or weekends with, you know, repairing something at
• 7:44
  their house or, you know, they really have those relationships that are are meaningful.
• 7:49
  And then, you know, there's a situation that's happening at work, in one particular area where
• 7:55
  it's an issue.
• 7:59
  So let's talk.
• 8:00
  So, obviously, garden minds at work, many people will not know what that is.
• 8:04
  So tell us a little bit about that.
• 8:05
  Like, I mean, I, obviously, At the time, that program, I think, got started.
• 8:09
  I was with Mona Chappell at that time.
• 8:11
  Oh, okay.
• 8:12
  Yep.
• 8:12
  Could we participate in the research?
• 8:14
  Correct.
• 8:14
  Correct.
• 8:14
  So it was started with Great West Life and they did, put this together.
• 8:19
  So share a little bit more about it because if employers are listening or leaders are
• 8:24
  listening, I'm gonna assume that they're gonna go, okay.
• 8:26
  Well, maybe that's something I should check out because if I can kinda get a baseline, why not
• 8:30
  be able to and we'll you know, what we can do is, have you provide the link that we could put
• 8:35
  it in with the podcast.
• 8:36
  Sure.
• 8:36
  Yes.
• 8:37
  I'd love to.
• 8:38
  So it's actually a free resource that was created.
• 8:41
  Like you just mentioned, there was many organizations, including Morneau Shepell,
• 8:47
  Mental Health Commission of Canada.
• 8:49
  And I'm gonna forget all of them, unfortunately, but basically they you know, did
• 8:55
  some research and established the national standard for psychological health and safety
• 9:01
  guarding minds at work is a tool.
• 9:04
  There is a tool with several resources that, are free to any Canadian business.
• 9:11
  And I don't know, possibly outside of Canada.
• 9:14
  I'm not sure.
• 9:15
  And it's a way to, you know, if depending on the size of the organization and how in-depth
• 9:20
  that you wanna go, there's different levels of the tool that you can choose.
• 9:24
  You know, you could do a quick sort of 6 question organizational overview, or you can do
• 9:29
  a more in-depth.
• 9:30
  I think it's 66 questions.
• 9:33
  You have all staff complete it.
• 9:36
  And and then it provides you a a score across the 13 psychosocial factors that affect
• 9:44
  psychological health and safety in the workplace.
• 9:46
  So things like, you know, clear leadership, things like reward and recognition, the amount
• 9:52
  of influence employees have on their work, work life balance.
• 9:58
  You know, there's all there's 13 categories.
• 9:59
  So organizations with to see how they score, and they'll also be able to see how they score
• 10:08
  against a standardized national average.
• 10:11
  So, I think it's over a 1000 other Canadian organizations.
• 10:15
  So you they'll be able to see where they're doing well and where they need to pay
• 10:18
  attention, where they're, you know, maybe there's minimal risk just need to do some
• 10:23
  tweaking and maybe areas of serious concern where they really need to, create a, more
• 10:30
  robust strategy to improve that area.
• 10:33
  So a great resource to start to kind of look like like you said, sometimes you get called
• 10:38
  because there's an issue.
• 10:39
  Maybe there's more conflicts potentially, or maybe they're having problems with, you know,
• 10:45
  maybe conflict with managers or arbitrations or whatever, or maybe they're sick.
• 10:50
  Right?
• 10:51
  The sick plays on the rise or they're short term disability and, you know, coming up with
• 10:55
  free renewal is going up by that 20% that every every employer freaks out about.
• 10:59
  Yep.
• 11:00
  Yep.
• 11:00
  Yep.
• 11:00
  They could be our potentially a crisis.
• 11:02
  Right?
• 11:03
  Something's happened.
• 11:03
  They've never had to deal with it before and they don't know what to do.
• 11:08
  So when you go in, you might tell them to start with guarding minds, for instance, or or
• 11:12
  suggest that.
• 11:13
  Then what are the steps that you kind of obviously, you're you're going in and asking
• 11:17
  very strategic questions about how the issue is, impacting them?
• 11:21
  And then what other steps are you taking, as as a management consultation?
• 11:26
  Mhmm.
• 11:27
  Yeah.
• 11:27
  So it depends a little bit on the organization structure and size.
• 11:32
  Certainly, we're gonna spend time, you know, interviewing senior leaders in the
• 11:37
  organization, either one on 1 or in a group depending how many.
• 11:42
  And then we are also wanna spend time with, who the leadership identifies as like key
• 11:48
  employees.
• 11:49
  So whether it's people who are being really impacted by the issue.
• 11:53
  So like you said, if it is you know, a significant conflict that's coming up or if
• 11:58
  it's, you know, an increase in absenteeism or turnover, you know, we're gonna look at their
• 12:04
  HR data, whatever they have collected.
• 12:07
  So whether it's, you know, exit survey, information, what is the sick time usage, the
• 12:15
  turnover rates, their STD LTD usage rates.
• 12:17
  So we we kind of review their HR data We'll usually do a focus group with staff, to kind of
• 12:27
  validate qualitatively the quantitative aspects of the GuardianMinds survey.
• 12:32
  And then from there, once we sort of have that story picture of what's really going on, we we
• 12:40
  take that information and see, you know, where are the greatest risk areas and the 13 factors.
• 12:49
  That, you know, really need immediate attention, and we're gonna make recommendations
• 12:54
  for those and also where the, you know, low hanging fruit the things that are the quick
• 12:59
  wins that can help, potentially, improve morale in a, you know, a faster sort of way.
• 13:07
  So it really depends on what is the issue.
• 13:10
  Certainly, we've ended up doing, you know, mediation, sessions between employees or team
• 13:16
  building facilitation.
• 13:18
  Sometimes it's, something like, offering, you know, Myers Briggs workshop, just helping
• 13:25
  employees understand their personality differences.
• 13:27
  And it's not that someone is right or wrong or, you know, better than the other, but just
• 13:33
  putting a framework around how each person is so that they can leverage the strengths instead
• 13:38
  of being focused on the differences.
• 13:41
  And then, you know, often our work is sort of ongoing.
• 13:44
  So once we've, you know, we we don't just like to go in and write a report and then leave, you
• 13:50
  know, you know, we had organizations where sometimes, if one of the issues is around sort
• 13:55
  of lack of clarity and expectations, because that inevitably co causes interpersonal
• 14:01
  conflict and stress at work.
• 14:03
  So, you know, we might be helping organizations to, you know, fine tune or sometimes create for
• 14:10
  the first time policies and procedures that didn't exist.
• 14:13
  Or job descriptions or even an organizational structure because they might not have,
• 14:18
  certainly in in smaller businesses where they've grown sort of organically over time.
• 14:23
  They they're missing some of those key infrastructure pieces.
• 14:26
  So they just need someone from the outside to come in and help them kinda map it out in a
• 14:32
  more clear way that then, you know, helps their employees understand the the picture of of the
• 14:40
  place that they work.
• 14:42
  So you're already taking, an overall pulse then.
• 14:45
  Right?
• 14:45
  So you're looking at from a from a strategic perspective, you're looking at the macro and
• 14:50
  and how the issue fits and you're you're mapping out what the needs are and how how to
• 14:55
  address it.
• 14:56
  Mhmm.
• 14:56
  So whether it's a mediation, I know, I mean, I, you know, I've done over my career a a a lot of
• 15:02
  me and, you know, I can think of one particular case and was a it was a, long standing issue,
• 15:11
  and it was a mental health concern.
• 15:12
  Right.
• 15:13
  And, it it continued, I think, for almost 10 years.
• 15:17
  And and So when I was called in to kind of, you know, deal with the with the situation, they
• 15:24
  were, you know, remissed to believe that there was any possibility that there would be change.
• 15:28
  Let's put it that way.
• 15:29
  Mhmm.
• 15:30
  Mhmm.
• 15:30
  But really, at the end of the day, you know, and it it probably talk about from 15 hours, to
• 15:37
  be able to mediate it and come to solution.
• 15:39
  But, really, it was someone that obviously was having a mission mental health and concern had
• 15:44
  been off on short term came back.
• 15:47
  And I would say the return to work strategy was ineffective, and then the conflict continued
• 15:53
  to.
• 15:54
  Right.
• 15:54
  So it was a veteran.
• 15:56
  Right.
• 15:56
  And then really to get these 2, people in the room was you know, there there was no they
• 16:02
  agreed to be in the room, but you could feel the tension, right, because they really had
• 16:07
  gotten to the point where they just didn't like each other.
• 16:09
  Right.
• 16:10
  And, you know, by naturally kinda looking at, you know, getting to know them and, obviously,
• 16:15
  you know, you know, as a mediator, you have to really get to know the person and
• 16:19
  have
• 16:19
  them feel comfortable and then to get them both in the same room.
• 16:22
  And really at the end of the day, it was a a lot of assumptions that was made.
• 16:28
  And this person was struggling with mental health, and this and there was a, age category,
• 16:33
  like a differential, you know, kind of age and stage, So the one perceived the other is not
• 16:39
  wanting to work to the potential, but not recognizing that the other person was in fact
• 16:43
  had an anxiety disorder.
• 16:45
  And really with time, what she this employee shared openly with time, what she felt
• 16:50
  comfortable, kind of what her what she was going through, And then the manager was like,
• 16:56
  I'm so like, she she was so horrified that she even perceived it as being her not wanting to
• 17:02
  follow through.
• 17:03
  Right.
• 17:03
  So it's that it's that bridge, right, that's, you know, can end up being such a neutralizing
• 17:08
  element where it's 2 basically good people, but they've had They've been locked in these
• 17:14
  positions for so long.
• 17:15
  And, obviously, the the person was about to go for short term again.
• 17:19
  Right.
• 17:19
  Right.
• 17:20
  Yeah.
• 17:20
  I'm I'm really glad you mentioned that Roxanne because, the process that I use, I It's called
• 17:27
  transformational team building, and it is meant to happen over 2 kind of full days.
• 17:33
  So, you know, it is anywhere from 14 to 16 hours.
• 17:36
  And it could be 2, but it could also be twelve people sort of involved in a team.
• 17:41
  You know, conflict isn't always just about 2 people, and even when it is, there's the people
• 17:45
  around them who then are impacted by that conflict.
• 17:49
  And so you know, if there's, whatever usually when when I do that type of work, what
• 17:58
  inevitably unfolds is that at some point back in time, assumptions were made.
• 18:03
  Mhmm.
• 18:04
  And then they carry forward.
• 18:05
  So, you know, people you know, didn't take the time to have, you know, a little bit of a
• 18:10
  awkward or difficult conversation to check that the assumption.
• 18:13
  They just continue to see that person through the lens of, you know, they're lazy or, you
• 18:19
  know, they're not working up to their potential.
• 18:21
  So then they we do that.
• 18:23
  Right?
• 18:23
  It's just our natural tendency.
• 18:24
  We seek to reinforce what we already believe.
• 18:26
  And then it accumulates over time, and it just turns into this really muddy yucky mess.
• 18:33
  And, you know, when we get people to that point of being able to have those really open, is
• 18:40
  vulnerable.
• 18:40
  It's absolutely can be scary to have that conversation, because, you know, at the end of
• 18:46
  the day, people that usually care about other people, you know, and once they realize, oh,
• 18:52
  you're, you know, you're actually struggling or, oh, you didn't mean what you said that way,
• 18:58
  all of this stuff kinda melts away, and they realize, oh, you know, there are things I could
• 19:04
  like about you.
• 19:04
  There, you know, I you do have some strengths and and they're able to to see it from a
• 19:09
  different perspective.
• 19:11
  It's a really, beautiful thing to watch, actually.
• 19:14
  It is.
• 19:14
  You know?
• 19:14
  And and and, you know, management and, did not believe that it was possible.
• 19:20
  That's the thing because you know, and I think I liked the approach that you you take to have
• 19:25
  in isolation.
• 19:26
  Like, I mean, I didn't we didn't we weren't invited in to become strategic.
• 19:30
  We were just asked to come in and do the mediation.
• 19:33
  But in retrospect, like to your point, these individuals go back and they have teams or,
• 19:40
  let's say it's a leadership team or a peer team or maybe they work on different projects
• 19:44
  together The impact has cross pollinated within each pocket that they work in within that
• 19:52
  environment.
• 19:52
  Exactly.
• 19:53
  So tell me what kind of training you would do.
• 19:55
  Like, let's say you're dealing with something like that, the transformational element of the
• 19:59
  2 days, what kind of things would you cover in that?
• 20:02
  So the the 2 days is actually the whole thing is focused on, having is creating a safe space
• 20:11
  to to for me to facilitate safe conversations to kind of clear the air.
• 20:16
  And it just actually takes that long.
• 20:18
  You know, it takes people a bit of time to feel safe initially.
• 20:21
  We kind of spend the first half of the first day just, you know, creating some boundaries
• 20:27
  and rules around how we're gonna engage in this conversation.
• 20:30
  And then the rest of the 1st day, because I've, before the meeting together, I do one on one
• 20:37
  interviews with everybody.
• 20:38
  So I have kind of a sense of what are the issues in the room.
• 20:42
  And then they spend the day possibly with some prompting for me, you know, about what's going
• 20:48
  on.
• 20:49
  And then I help them just it's really just having conversations that they haven't had,
• 20:54
  that they've needed to have.
• 20:57
  And then the benefit of doing it over 2 days, because what happens is you know, you only have
• 21:02
  half a day and there's more that needs to be talked about, then you can cover in that
• 21:05
  afternoon.
• 21:07
  And people, you know, they go home.
• 21:08
  They sleep on it.
• 21:09
  They're stressed.
• 21:09
  They realize, oh, you know, there is this and they kinda come back the next morning, ready
• 21:13
  to, okay, like, you know, we're in it now.
• 21:16
  I wanna get get it all out and and then by the afternoon of the second day, We've usually had
• 21:22
  some really good breakthroughs where people are realizing they start to see the good.
• 21:29
  They start to have those transformational conversations.
• 21:32
  They start to come to some agreements around how this is gonna look different going forward.
• 21:38
  And, you know, it it's an awesome and difficult process.
• 21:42
  So they also say, okay.
• 21:43
  We don't wanna do this.
• 21:44
  Have to get to this point again.
• 21:46
  So what do we need to do to, like, avoid this going forward?
• 21:50
  And then, you know, the the last sort of little bit of the afternoon spent making those
• 21:54
  agreements sort of, closing the space.
• 21:58
  How are we going to talk about this when we go back to work?
• 22:01
  Because, although we try to get most of a team in this in the circle together.
• 22:08
  Inevitably, like you said, people know when there's conflict, it just it slows out, other
• 22:14
  people know.
• 22:15
  So then how are we gonna talk about this when we do go back to work?
• 22:18
  You know, how do we maintain confidentiality and also communicate to others that we're we're
• 22:23
  okay now, and we're in a good place, and we're working together now.
• 22:27
  So we we, you know, help the group sort of formulate that conversation.
• 22:33
  So it's not it's not a training that we do.
• 22:36
  It's more so, creating safe space and having them practice difficult conversations.
• 22:42
  Right.
• 22:43
  And to and to know that it's not okay to do certain things.
• 22:46
  Right?
• 22:46
  Because I think sometimes when people get into conflict, and let's say you're walking in and
• 22:51
  you don't like me, Jackie, and you, you know, you kinda think, oh, I don't wanna talk to her.
• 22:54
  So I'll just walk faster.
• 22:56
  Something as basic as that, good morning.
• 22:58
  Even though I may have a difference, I think when you get into that transformation
• 23:02
  transformation place where you could say what's basic respect and, you know, you know, how do
• 23:09
  people treat each other on this team?
• 23:11
  And, you know, we could see that there's pockets or their camps.
• 23:14
  It allows that space.
• 23:15
  Like you said, I could see.
• 23:16
  And then, you know, to have everybody discuss it openly and know that I can say whatever I'm
• 23:22
  gonna say, and it's gonna be used constructively.
• 23:24
  Mhmm.
• 23:25
  I'm not gonna walk past you again tomorrow and and, you know, kinda divert my eye again.
• 23:29
  I'm gonna think about that to say, while we thought about that and Jackie said that that
• 23:34
  was something that concerned her, and we've kind of decided that even if it's a nod, it's
• 23:39
  it's bit better than nothing.
• 23:40
  Right.
• 23:41
  Yeah.
• 23:41
  Absolutely recognizing the impact that we have on other people.
• 23:45
  So that person who's getting walked past would have had the chance to say how that makes them
• 23:50
  feel.
• 23:51
  And then, you know, usually when someone realizes, oh, I'm making someone, you know,
• 23:56
  feel terrible about themselves or feel not included or feel, you know, whatever.
• 24:01
  That doesn't, you know, feel nice.
• 24:03
  I don't wanna make somebody feel like that.
• 24:05
  And I'm probably doing it for some reason that I'm hurt about, you know, because you didn't
• 24:10
  Yeah.
• 24:11
  It's it's kind of this, you know, the playground mentality that just it's our inner
• 24:16
  six year olds that are showing up at work.
• 24:18
  I have a colleague that talks about her brand is, her name is Penny Tramblay, and she talks
• 24:22
  about, playing nice in the Sandbox That's her, basically, all to do with conflict, and it's it
• 24:28
  really is.
• 24:28
  Right?
• 24:29
  We are truly big versions of ourselves.
• 24:33
  You know, So, you know, when you didn't get picked to place hopscotch or you didn't get
• 24:37
  invited to the birthday party or, you know, all those things and we bring that part, that
• 24:43
  emotional part of ourselves to work.
• 24:45
  We do.
• 24:45
  Yep.
• 24:46
  And it Absolutely.
• 24:47
  Right?
• 24:48
  And then so I think, you know, that transformative conversation.
• 24:53
  And it's powerful.
• 24:54
  I know I've done them, you know, with teams and stuff like that.
• 24:58
  People kind of just can be people, it's pretty powerful.
• 25:02
  Like,
• 25:02
  you see?
• 25:03
  Yeah.
• 25:03
  I think there's a bit of historical residue around the idea that you're supposed to
• 25:08
  separate your your personal self, your emotions when you show up to work.
• 25:13
  And I personally I I can't subscribe to that belief because I'm a whole person, and and my
• 25:18
  whole person comes with me wherever I go, and that person consists of motions and billings.
• 25:24
  And so what what I think is probably missing in our, you know, the educational system and even
• 25:32
  probably at homes is we don't learn from a young age how to have difficult conversations.
• 25:37
  We don't learn how to, have a healthy conflict you know, conflict in itself isn't a bad thing,
• 25:42
  but people get our star, don't deal with it in a in a healthy way because they haven't learned
• 25:49
  how.
• 25:50
  So, you know, then it shows up at work because people are trying to be, you know, quote,
• 25:55
  professional.
• 25:56
  Meanwhile, they're, you know, by kind of stifling or suffocating their feelings, but
• 26:02
  that doesn't actually do anybody any good, in my opinion.
• 26:07
  And I think most people believe that conflict means that it's it's it's, it has to be a big,
• 26:12
  a big brow or coral and and, you know, like, raise voices and stuff like that.
• 26:18
  And you're right.
• 26:19
  I think we need to start to teach our little ones that you can you can have disagreements.
• 26:25
  Mhmm.
• 26:26
  You you can listen to someone else.
• 26:28
  They may not agree with you, but that doesn't and that's, you know, that's conflict
• 26:32
  resolution being taught right there.
• 26:34
  Yeah.
• 26:34
  And to talk.
• 26:36
  Yep.
• 26:36
  Yeah.
• 26:36
  Just, you know, to recognize that I'm gonna have differences, but it doesn't mean that I to
• 26:41
  be polarized, and then I'm just not gonna play with you again.
• 26:43
  Right?
• 26:44
  Right.
• 26:44
  Exactly.
• 26:45
  Yeah.
• 26:45
  Because I have to play with you again because I got I have to see you at work.
• 26:49
  8 hours for 10, maybe 10 years.
• 26:52
  Yeah.
• 26:53
  Yeah.
• 26:53
  Which it gets difficult.
• 26:54
  So let's let's pivot a little bit and talk a little bit more about mental health and the
• 26:58
  work placed in in kind of, what we're seeing.
• 27:02
  Obviously, we're seeing, such a rise with, you know, with, you know, anxiety, depression, lots
• 27:09
  of things like that.
• 27:10
  What what kind of things are you seeing, more of?
• 27:14
  Is there age bands, or different sectors that you're seeing more of an issue with, or is it
• 27:20
  that you're seeing it across the board?
• 27:23
  I don't think I could say certainly not like with from a data perspective, I wouldn't, say
• 27:32
  it's higher in any one place than the other.
• 27:35
  I think overall, what we're seeing is people reporting an increased sense of stress, kind of
• 27:42
  overall stress.
• 27:43
  And you know, I think that is, you know, that's a ubiquitous issue.
• 27:51
  You know, culturally.
• 27:54
  It's in our, you know, we're it's just kind of this fast paced go go go focus on productivity.
• 28:02
  And so I think that, yeah, stress.
• 28:05
  Everyone just seems like everyone we talk to, wherever we're going, whether it's in our kind
• 28:10
  of work capacity or not.
• 28:11
  It's, you know, people are busy and or stressed.
• 28:14
  That's, you know, how are you doing?
• 28:15
  I'm busy around stresses.
• 28:17
  This is the response And so I think, you know, the the depression anxiety we know are the most
• 28:27
  common mood disorders.
• 28:30
  1 in 5, I think it might even be closer to 1 in 4 now.
• 28:36
  That that is we know that that's impacting people statistically.
• 28:39
  So we know that that's showing up at work and I think what employers don't realize is that they
• 28:47
  have a duty now.
• 28:49
  The the law is shifting in such a way that duties that employers have the duty to cause no
• 28:56
  additional harm.
• 28:57
  So if someone is experiencing, you know, it's almost like employers need to operate from the
• 29:03
  assumption that, you know, 1 in 4 to 5 of my employees have depression and or anxiety, I
• 29:10
  need to make sure that when they're coming to work, I'm not adding.
• 29:14
  I'm not compounding those issues.
• 29:17
  By having, you know, unrealistic demands or, tolerating incivility or, you know, turning a a
• 29:25
  blind eye to, you know, bullying or harassment, any of those things, because that's gonna It's
• 29:32
  that's hard for anybody.
• 29:33
  It's that's difficult for five and five people, but for the person who's also struggling with
• 29:39
  the pressure and anxiety, it's it, you know, you're you're compounding now.
• 29:45
  I don't know if I answered your question, actually.
• 29:48
  Yeah.
• 29:48
  But but
• 29:48
  it makes sense because we have a duty, to keep our our workplaces as psychologically safe.
• 29:54
  So there is now implications for that are not, you know, addressing things like, harassment.
• 30:02
  Well, harassment is a given.
• 30:03
  Yeah.
• 30:03
  But, like, you know, in, you know, whether it's bullying or, you know, not if there's constant
• 30:11
  conflict, you need to you need to get into it and to understand is it communication problem,
• 30:16
  or is there really something else going on?
• 30:18
  So now on the, you know, psychological health and safety, we need to make our environment
• 30:24
  safe for employees to be able to go to work and know that we're not in any way being implicit
• 30:30
  in in not recognizing that we're not addressing concerns.
• 30:34
  Right.
• 30:34
  Yes.
• 30:35
  And, you know, I think so going back to your question around, is it is it more in one age or
• 30:40
  a category or sector than other?
• 30:42
  No.
• 30:43
  I think probably the content of what's causing stress might differ by age, you know, the, the
• 30:51
  people who are on the later years of their career are are you have the stress of that, you
• 30:57
  know, preparing for retirement, that life change, stress trying to figure out what's the
• 31:01
  legacy that they wanna leave at work.
• 31:04
  So, you know, that they have that stress and are often at more senior level positions at the
• 31:08
  end of their career.
• 31:09
  So that comes with increased stress and responsibility.
• 31:13
  Folks in the sort of middle, age, and period in their career are, often also dealing with that
• 31:23
  that sandwich effect.
• 31:25
  So the, you know, outside of work there, they have, you know, aging parents and probably, or
• 31:30
  possibly children at home.
• 31:32
  So they're sort of caretaking and and working when they're not at work, and then they're
• 31:36
  coming to work trying to, you know, work on work towards their career.
• 31:40
  So, you know, they're just kind of stressed in a in terms of being overextended in their
• 31:46
  multiple roles in their life.
• 31:47
  And then even the folks entering the workforce for the first time, you know, they have stress
• 31:52
  around, you know, could be student It could be, being living out on their own for the first
• 31:59
  time entering the workforce.
• 32:00
  You know, that that's stressful try trying to just kinda navigate how do I what do I need to
• 32:05
  do?
• 32:06
  How does this work?
• 32:06
  It's a whole new world.
• 32:08
  So the what is causing the stress might be different by age, but I think it it is
• 32:13
  happening to everybody.
• 32:16
  Of course.
• 32:16
  And like you said, having to, you know, most people aren't unplugging anymore.
• 32:21
  And she that, you know, now we have to talk about the, and the digital element of things
• 32:26
  and the, you know, Gone of the days where people go home and they disconnect now.
• 32:30
  A lot more people are working virtually.
• 32:32
  So there's implications for that.
• 32:34
  So you I I I will say that you're putting them in the tumble cycle with not being
• 32:38
  disconnected.
• 32:38
  You know, what we know with the brain is the brain needs the brain needs, you know, quiet
• 32:43
  just to be able to just like we need to sleep.
• 32:47
  To be able to to perform our days, or or brains also need that.
• 32:51
  And
• 32:51
  with situational anxiety, and the most of it is is situational.
• 32:56
  Right?
• 32:56
  Not per se biological, anxiety and depression, but if it doesn't get addressed, then it kind
• 33:02
  of, you know, gets stuck in the body where you're needing to then kind of I I say you need
• 33:08
  to give it a bit of a boost.
• 33:10
  Right?
• 33:10
  And then we're getting into things like medication, and time off, those types of
• 33:14
  things.
• 33:14
  So it it it does become a perpetuating cycle.
• 33:18
  So I think it's definitely something that, we have to keep our or eyes on because it's going
• 33:25
  to be on the increase and there we have to start to talk about strategy.
• 33:30
  From a different perspective with, okay, we're not we're not unplugging.
• 33:35
  How are we going to ensure that people are doing it?
• 33:38
  Are we gonna ensure we're gonna make it so that people feel comfortable enough to take their
• 33:43
  lunches, you know, to take their breaks, you know, all that kind of stuff and strategy.
• 33:47
  Do you said, like, from a HR perspective around things like wellness, health, and wellness,
• 33:52
  what kind of services do you offer those types of things?
• 33:54
  It's that's even more when I started in the field of VIP back 1984.
• 33:59
  It was kinda nice to have that kind of tagline, but now it's kind of a given, with most
• 34:04
  companies that they have, you know, psychological services that, you know, people
• 34:09
  could access 247 kind of that's confidential.
• 34:12
  Right.
• 34:14
  Yeah.
• 34:16
  So this has been very, very informative.
• 34:19
  Is there anything specific that you want to kind of share with the listeners before let you
• 34:25
  go.
• 34:27
  Well, I think just you I mean, you mentioned our vision at the beginning.
• 34:30
  You know, we we started this business because We want to be part of, you know, creating a
• 34:39
  world where Monday is the best day of the week.
• 34:42
  You know, and I think that it's possible.
• 34:46
  And I think it's it can seem, overwhelming for people when they're in the muck.
• 34:54
  And I think it actually isn't as it doesn't have to cost extra, to take care of people
• 35:01
  well, to to create supportive working environments.
• 35:05
  You know, it it it's really just you know, some tweaking policies and procedures or, you know,
• 35:10
  re reassigning workloads, you know, diff there's different things that can be done It
• 35:15
  doesn't have to be expensive.
• 35:17
  And, so I just, I guess, I just wanna reiterate that I think it's possible.
• 35:22
  And, that the Deloitte, research that came out at the beginning of November, what that shows
• 35:30
  it it was a Canadian study showing that when you invest in employee mental health, the
• 35:34
  return on investment is about a dollar 63 for every dollar spent.
• 35:38
  I think it's the best investment you can make.
• 35:41
  You know, people are your most they're they're your highest cost item.
• 35:47
  So I think it's they're worth the investment.
• 35:50
  Awesome.
• 35:50
  And if you could send us that link to that article too, that would be great.
• 35:54
  We would include it.
• 35:55
  So thank you so much for your time.
• 35:58
  You know, so I guess what I'm taking away, and we know this anyway is that, prevention costs
• 36:04
  less than to seek an employee.
• 36:06
  And if you look at short term claims and you think about what the average short term claim
• 36:12
  is, let's say it's 2, 3 months and you look at your hourly rates, and think about what it
• 36:17
  takes to replace that employee.
• 36:20
  And, you know, if you were to use the dollar 6 the, like, the Deloitte study to really kind of
• 36:26
  implement strategy.
• 36:27
  It may seem like you're paying for certain things up front, but really you're inoculating
• 36:31
  your environments against things that need to get done anyway because you're gonna pee on the
• 36:36
  back end.
• 36:37
  And if, you know, it's it's expensive, short term is expensive, what's even more expensive
• 36:42
  is if people get into long term, which we know that with increase in in anxiety and
• 36:47
  depression, if it doesn't get addressed in the in the proper way, what's gonna happen is,
• 36:52
  unfortunately, those employees are going to get sicker and sicker, and then it's gonna be
• 36:57
  harder.
• 36:57
  And those are the hard, hard costs that, you know, employees struggle with today.
• 37:02
  So for everyone listening Thank you so much, for listening in.
• 37:06
  If you're needing any information on me, it's Roxanne Derhodge.
• 37:09
  I'm a mental health and wellness specialist.
• 37:11
  I speak on often to Sydney in leadership in the workplace.
• 37:14
  So thanks again, Jackie, and have a
• 37:16
  great day.
• 37:16
  Thanks, Roxanne.
• 37:17
  Okay.
• 37:18
  Bye bye.
• 37:19
  Bye.
• 37:20
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 37:25
  healthy change.
• 37:26
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 37:33
  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 37:36
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.