Latest / Sarah Knows Support Workers / NDIS Changes 2026 Explained: Support Workers, Funding Cuts & The Future of Care

Transcript

NDIS Changes 2026 Explained: Support Workers, Funding Cuts & The Future of Care · Sarah Knows Support Workers

0:00
Another interview that I have. I'm only doing the lazy
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interviews and Sarah and I are together today, not so much as
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part of the like, our focus tonight is NDIS, but Sarah is
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another empowered woman, so I can fit her into two categories
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here. So welcome, Sarah, would you
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like to share with everybody, you know, for those one, maybe
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two people that don't know anything about you?
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All right. So my name is Sarah and I am the
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Co founder of Sushi Machi. I have a podcast myself, myself
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and I've been running the support worker store for two
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years now and I create a lot of content in the sector about
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support workers and the challenges and the do's and the
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don'ts and all the in between. And I, we get to have a bit of
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fun, Jackie, because when we're podcast host, we get to
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interview some really amazing people doing amazing stuff in
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the sector. So it's kind of cool that we get
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to reach new people and explain what's happening and who's doing
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what. And Chef is like, even though
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there's some really crappy stuff that happens, it's some really
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good things that are happening to.
1:01
Yeah, I love that. I think that given and we are
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here to discuss last week last Wednesday, but what I love about
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what you just said is the amazing people that are doing
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amazing things and if imagine and it will never happen.
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Imagine if mainstream media picked that up like that would
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just be incredible it. Blows my mind to all these
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people out there. And the coolest thing when you
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get to interview these people is that they're just everyday
1:30
people doing something that might have annoyed them or got a
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little bit frustrated and thought, I'll just build that.
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I'll just do that. I can see an area that I can do,
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and this is my nation. This is what I do really good.
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So it's kind of cool that when we get to display it and show
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that side of the story, because we do, we care really well.
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We don't promote ourselves very well in care.
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That's what I feel that we like is missing.
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And that's because we're always that person first before us, the
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person that we serve before us comes before us.
1:59
And we're so focused on that. And it's a good way.
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Don't get me wrong, that's really good.
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That's what we want people to put, you know, personally and be
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the first there. But we also don't highlight what
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it takes to get there. Yeah.
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And it takes a lot, yeah. I've found that too, but they've
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got some of the best stories, like some of the things that you
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hear and the success stories behind it, like that stuff.
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I thoroughly enjoy hearing and being able to share those
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stories. Yeah.
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And that that was part of why I developed or started.
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I saw empowered women positive impact and my book as well to
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tie in with empowered Women because I've got 12 empowered
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women in that book and a couple are in the disability sector.
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But then it took a life of its own.
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It's like we're getting interested in other countries.
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But I will bring us back to today's topic, which is the
2:49
announcements that were made last Wednesday.
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I'm going to try to keep to proposed changes and plans.
2:58
I think that we need to just bring down the fear and anxiety
3:04
as much as we can. This.
3:05
Is what we have to emphasize the wording that he used because
3:08
it's nothing set in stone just yet in the feelers into the
3:13
market to figure out whether it sits or not and how the market
3:16
will respond to it. And prior to even him talking,
3:20
there's been six months of fear mongering in the NDIS.
3:23
This was all the calculated. I I feel like it's quite
3:25
calculated, yeah. And one of the things that I do
3:29
want to draw to the, the listeners, the audience, is that
3:34
we've been looking at all of this since 20/22/23.
3:39
And not a lot, like there has been some changes, not a lot has
3:44
happened. I'm not saying it won't, but
3:46
then I can't, I can't say that. But one of the things that I'd
3:51
like to say is that I've watched this and when we get a big
3:54
announcement, everybody goes, oh, what does that mean for me?
3:58
Right. Like we get, we get sill just
4:01
for one example. But I've noticed that the actual
4:04
changes they implement, such as funding in funding in plans
4:09
being cut by a third, like that's been going on for 18
4:13
months and there wasn't anything much said about that.
4:16
Every plan, every plan by far had a cut and then to the point
4:20
that as a service provider you'd be looking, how can I make this
4:24
work for this individual? Because they're used to coming
4:28
to service 5 days and now they can't.
4:30
They used to having a one to one, they used to being in
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community and now they can't get what they used to have.
4:36
So having you justified that as a surface it, it's a massive
4:39
effect. It, we knew that these cuts were
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coming because we can even tell by our support worker market as
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well because their hours have changed dramatically.
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And then we got providers cutting hours as well.
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The support workers get cut 80 has a ripple effect already.
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And that it probably would explain why the turn rate at the
4:56
moment, I think it's like 50% of support workers are turning out,
4:59
not coming in. You're losing more support
5:01
workers and then coming into the sector.
5:02
Yeah, yeah. So that brings us to just
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reading my notes, one of the things that that the minister
5:09
spoke about, which was that cut for social and community.
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Now I know that's a bit of an area of yours that you're very
5:16
familiar with. So would you like to just talk
5:18
to that a little bit, see how much we can just reassure people
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a smidgen. We can't reassure you 100%.
5:24
We can, but there I feel like history repeats itself and I
5:29
feel like this is a part we don't talk enough about.
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Remember at one point in the 80s and early 90s, institutions were
5:36
closed down and from the closing down of these introductions,
5:39
people were supported into community.
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But also some when I say supported into community,
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community living, community spaces, community opportunities,
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whether that was our neighborhood house, our pubs,
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our football clubs, This idea of coming back to community, it's
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just it's not an old one. It's actually, sorry, it's an
5:57
old one, not a new one. It's nothing that hasn't been
6:00
done. And prior to the NDIS, as a
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support worker, I was always taught, mentored and guided that
6:07
our aim was to get people back into community, regardless
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whether it had to do with their funds or not.
6:13
The aim is to have community living.
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So prior to the NDIS, part of my role was to get back people into
6:20
community, whether it was going to the local gym by themselves,
6:22
whether it was catching the train by themselves, whether it
6:25
was going into a neighborhood house independently as possible.
6:29
So we like the funds is like, I think it was 200 million that
6:33
they're going to put back into community.
6:35
Fantastic. I think it's a really awesome
6:37
thing to push people to, you know, where you live is where
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you want to commute, you know, be around and the and create
6:43
those friendship groups within your own community and not
6:46
outsource that type of stuff and not have a support worker that
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is paid to be your friend, actual friends that you can
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create within community. Fantastic.
6:54
All four. But the only like thing that I
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would love to see, and I think I need a little a bit more
6:59
understanding is how to get somebody back into community and
7:03
transition from support work without.
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That's a space I'm really like wanting to be more to know.
7:08
But The thing is, the information's not out yet.
7:11
We don't know. But if we have the mindset and
7:14
have that positivity, like, Oh yeah, that means that the people
7:17
that we provide care for are doing activities within their
7:20
community and creating friendships and opportunities in
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the community for them. I don't see that as a bad thing.
7:25
No, I agree. Yeah, I think that it's, I think
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the way the Internet is now, I'm going to show my age here.
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But you know, before we had these things, mobile phones and
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before we had the Internet like we do now, we met people in
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person. We you know, when my kids were
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little, we did the school fate and very heavily involved in
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that. Like I was part of the committee
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and everybody came together. We even bought 2 schools
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together and we had, we had things that people that were in
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wheelchairs could still access and people that, you know,
8:02
because we had those people, sorry, those children and adults
8:07
in the community, the, the children in the school that
8:10
were, that were in wheelchairs, they just accessed the same
8:13
things. It was accessibility.
8:16
Would that be real? Like it was just a part of it.
8:19
And that's what we want. We want people back into
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community. We want that back because it
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serves a person's health and well-being.
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And we know that people that are more happier live longer and
8:30
they do more and then more engaged.
8:32
But also as support workers, providers, How good does that
8:36
feel when you get to support somebody back into community?
8:39
How good does that feel when you get to see somebody actually
8:42
achieving their NDIS goal? How good does it feel for that
8:46
individual to say, yeah, against all odds, I have now been as
8:50
independent as possibly can. I can catch the bus, I can go to
8:53
the movies independent. I can do things that I couldn't
8:56
do a couple of years ago, a couple of months ago, and I can
8:59
do now. Those type of feelings.
9:01
What was the point of an NDIS goal if you never achieved them
9:04
well? Yes.
9:04
And I'm just listening to you with that like you're making
9:08
some amazing points. And I'm just wondering, do you
9:11
think, and this wasn't a planned question, but do you think and
9:19
and guys, we only planned the question.
9:20
So we try and stay on some form of trash.
9:22
But yeah, outside of that it was like, let's have a discussion.
9:26
Yeah. I'm just wondering, do you think
9:28
that because before the NDI, yes, there was a lot of
9:31
community orientated stuff which you spoke to, but and thank you.
9:35
But do you think that in a way by giving a person 1 to 1
9:39
funding for social and community actually created a bit of a
9:43
dependency and a little bit of lack of the need for community?
9:48
Just a thought. Yeah.
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But I think The thing is when it happens with the NDIS, it grew
9:54
so quickly and so rapidly and it just felt like it exploded and
9:58
no provider had enough support workers to provide support to
10:03
people. And when there's not enough,
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you're, you're getting new people in as support workers.
10:09
They haven't got the mentoring that I had.
10:11
Like to be honest with you, 17 years ago, I had fantastic
10:14
mentors that have been doing it for years.
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They've been doing it for decades and they understood key
10:19
cues and how to support people and how to re engage community
10:23
that they knew off by heart. It blew up so quickly, the
10:26
support worker space that there was no mentoring.
10:30
There was no opportunity to support.
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It became very kind of kind of like hospitalized like it was
10:36
really kind of like strict and like to the point that we didn't
10:39
see dignity of risk and we didn't entertain any of that.
10:43
It just became really kind of stuffy.
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I can't quite describe it with words, but I find now it for
10:51
support workers. They just, I don't have the
10:53
training that I had to be fair, they were put into courses like
10:58
now you have to wait for somebody to have a plan in their
11:00
plan to have training for something that I got naturally
11:04
from provider anyway. That is a huge difference.
11:07
The support workers are just not as trained as they used to be.
11:11
And that's none like it's, it's a multiple effect, like it's a
11:15
bit of an everybody effect. But not having support workers
11:19
trained, I believe is the reason why that notion of supporting
11:23
somebody into community. There's that.
11:25
But there's also the other factor of, well, if I put them
11:27
into community, I lose as participant.
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Now what do I, if I lose that participant into community, I've
11:34
got the support worker that's part time.
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Where am I going to put them? I still have to pay the support
11:38
worker under the Shads award. And do you think that that has
11:42
been contributed to a lot of people going independent?
11:47
Yeah. How good's the flexibility when
11:49
you're independent and if you already the, if you already know
11:53
what you're doing as an independent, just say you're I
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so we're going down this past season.
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Independents are like people that have been up providers of,
11:59
you know, work their way up before they went to independent,
12:02
not straight independent straight away.
12:03
That's a debate for another time.
12:05
But if they've done it and they've done it really well,
12:08
then they get to pick their own hours.
12:10
They get to work with people that they want to.
12:12
They're not dictated by a provider when they're available,
12:15
they're working with that person.
12:17
And to be honest, the people that we said love that personal
12:20
feeling of yeah, this is, it doesn't feel like I'm talking to
12:23
provider of someone corporate. I'm talking to a real person.
12:26
They understand me, they get it. They've got flexibility in their
12:29
roster with somebody from a provider might not because they
12:32
have Sally in the morning, Frank in the afternoon and Albert at
12:35
night. It's not the same.
12:36
I think for the opportunity for independent work is because the
12:41
market wanted it to have people that we serve wanted it because
12:45
they want the feeling of knowing somebody quite personal because
12:48
some of the tasks that they were doing are quite personal.
12:51
But also our support workers want the flexibility and
12:53
opportunity to earn more money as well and do what they do
12:57
well. Big effect.
12:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of moving parts a
13:01
lot of people don't understand. And if you haven't been involved
13:04
in the NDIS, and this is what I've been commenting on
13:08
politicians posts and I've been going come talk to somebody
13:12
that's seen all avenues of it. Like, you know, I'll put my hand
13:15
up. You can come and ask me
13:16
questions because I've been there.
13:19
I've been the support worker, I've managed the support worker
13:22
team in a registered provider. And I was very much on mentoring
13:26
people and checking in on your staff and meeting all the
13:30
participants and doing all those things.
13:32
And then I left and did support coordination and then I went out
13:36
on my own and my, I always had my company, but, and my focus
13:41
was, was helping people to not need me even as a support
13:44
worker. But then I kind of fell into the
13:47
compliance part part. Of it that kind of helps with
13:50
registration coming up. Yeah, yeah.
13:53
Definitely it's, it's interesting what was said about
13:57
registration, What's coming up with registration?
13:59
Can you dive a little bit more? Because for a lot of people it's
14:02
kind of scary, like there's a lot of independence going.
14:05
Do I need to register? There's a lot of businesses.
14:07
Do I register now or do I wait for them to tell me to register?
14:11
There's a lot of mixed messages out there.
14:13
Is there anything that could clear up?
14:14
Yeah, I'll give it a go. I'll give it a go.
14:16
So one of the things that people when if you've known me for a
14:20
while, one of the things I've always said is let's take a wait
14:23
and see approach. But while we're doing wait and
14:25
see, we prepare. So one of my biggest things is
14:30
around compliance and understanding how audits work.
14:33
I've done some education in that learnings.
14:35
And so the biggest thing is that yes, Regis mandatory
14:40
registration has been spoken about since 2023, right.
14:43
The the biggest thing is I do think it is going to come in
14:47
some form exactly when I don't know.
14:51
But what I would highly recommend that people do as an
14:56
independent or even a small provider that's not registered
15:00
is having your documents, policies and procedures in
15:04
place. And by in place, I mean it's not
15:07
just having them, it's actually using them.
15:10
It's completing certain forms and and while someone watching
15:14
this might go, I don't need that.
15:16
I'm not an independent. I don't need it like I hear that
15:19
100 times over you do. Why do you need it?
15:23
For a couple of reasons. There's the India's code of
15:26
conduct and let's just forget about registration for a moment.
15:31
You are providing a service to a vulnerable person.
15:34
You need to understand what are their goals that that are
15:38
pertaining to your services. How are you going to help them
15:41
achieve those goals? Because if they don't achieve
15:42
keep those goals that don't keep their NDIS funding, like it's
15:46
just that simple. Now, how do you do that safely?
15:50
How do you prevent an incident? How do you show evidence that
15:54
you've actually done this work? Right now, all of this can tie
15:57
into showing that you're not committing fraud because, you
16:00
know, you're not like, yeah, unless you are.
16:03
But how do you show evidence, right?
16:05
Like you know, showing evidence that you would attended a shift
16:10
is possibly a timesheet signed if you don't use F.
16:13
It's your care notes that leading to how you're helping
16:17
the person with their goals. IE you took Mary shopping.
16:21
OK great. What was the purpose of taking
16:23
Mary shopping? So she could get the food for
16:25
dinner. Did you do the shopping?
16:27
Did Mary do the shopping? Did you do it together?
16:29
You're building capacity. Maybe one of her goals is to be
16:33
able to cook her meal by herself and to get her there.
16:37
There's a few steps along the way.
16:38
It's going to take time. That's a benchmark, like if you
16:41
want to do a really good job by somebody and any job that you
16:44
want to do in this will do it really well.
16:46
But I wouldn't put that as a benchmark of wanting to do well
16:50
for that person. But you're right, there isn't
16:52
like there's that element of breaking down an activity
16:54
because we need to be able to tell support coordinators what
16:58
we're doing, Plan managers understand what we're doing then
17:01
and they're even the families just to give them that
17:03
reassurance of what happened today.
17:05
Because if like you said, if it's a community that's like
17:08
$70.23, 3 an hour of an NDIS package taken to go out at
17:14
$70.23 worth it. Yes, exactly.
17:17
And then there's the compliance part of it that the, if the
17:20
payment integrity team come knocking on your door even as an
17:24
unregistered provider, which they can do, they are doing,
17:28
then they're going to say well why are we giving you $700.00
17:32
this week? Like show me why we should pay
17:35
you with federal funding that seven, that $700.00 or that
17:39
$1000 or whatever it is. And part of that is, well,
17:42
here's the timesheet to show ID show up.
17:44
Here's the case notes or care notes or whatever language you
17:47
want to use for those that we worked on Mary's goal of
17:50
becoming independent. And part of that was shopping.
17:54
OK, what else did you do? How did you keep her safe?
17:57
So they're not going to ask me that.
17:58
They're simply going to say, where's her risk assessment?
18:01
Now, if let's pretend, let's take the worst case scenario of
18:05
what the minister has said and personal care is now high risk
18:11
and and registration thing. If you were to apply for
18:15
registration today, which I would say, have you got the
18:19
money? Why do you want to do it?
18:20
Like like I'd have that conversation.
18:22
I'm not going to say yes, I'm not going to say no.
18:24
We're just going to break it down.
18:25
And then you as a business owner decide.
18:27
But if you go to audit today and you haven't been doing care
18:30
plans, you haven't got shift notes or key notes, whatever,
18:34
you haven't got time sheets, you haven't got policies, you
18:37
haven't got any of that in place.
18:39
And auditors going to to go, well, what have you been doing
18:41
for the last two years with Mary?
18:43
And you're going to probably not not get the you're probably
18:46
going to have a lot of nonconformities or non
18:48
compliances. And some auditors are really
18:51
honest and say, withdraw your application because the
18:55
Commission and who are sexual application are going to base it
18:58
on what the auditor says and ask you the some similar questions.
19:03
They might even ask you for evidence that even though the
19:06
auditor's seen it, they may ask you for further.
19:08
So it's not just as simple as going and getting your
19:12
documents, policies and procedures from someone just for
19:15
registration. It's about how are you providing
19:18
safe services to the people today and we call that best
19:22
practice. So Jackie, can I just buy a
19:25
registration on a Facebook group I've seen and be OK?
19:28
Well, technically, yes, you could.
19:30
My caution with that would be you're still probably going to
19:34
have to go through an audit and an assessment as the new owner.
19:39
So Sarah, honestly, if you don't know what those policies and
19:42
procedures say, if they don't represent how you personally
19:46
would run the business and you haven't changed them and you're
19:49
questioned and you're audited, you may have wasted your money.
19:52
So it might have been a lot more money than what you could get
19:56
away with it. For so if I was a independent
19:59
looking at all like to build this, can I just check GPT if
20:02
Jackie like and get it done that way or should I go to and spend
20:07
a bit more time and detail on it to ensure?
20:10
Sure that when it does arise and when you know the if.
20:14
I am viable well, once again, technically sure I've tested
20:18
chat GTP and it can come up with some good things.
20:21
Mind you then I start arguing with it and I not not human, but
20:25
I go but hold on, what about this and what about that chat
20:28
GTP? So I just want to break it down
20:31
a little further. The way I operate is sure I I
20:35
have the bundles, the documents, policies and procedures.
20:38
Some of them I could add additional ones too.
20:41
So there's your basic one that you could do for best practice
20:44
now, not registration, but when you get them, they're templated
20:48
just to help you know what is ideal.
20:52
But what you do is you go through it.
20:54
So and, and this is what consultants don't do unless
20:58
they're really 100% working with your you for your business.
21:03
And that takes a lot of work. The one way is that if you're
21:07
using chat GTP, do you really know what you're asking?
21:10
And do you know that what you get is actually correct?
21:13
And how does it represent your business, your unique business?
21:17
Because Sarah, you and I could both go out there and open up a
21:21
support worker business and Chat GTP or consult in it.
21:25
But we don't really know whether what we've got is right.
21:28
It might pass an audit. But here's the thing, that's a
21:32
paper audit. It's not if you're working with
21:35
someone now, your audit isn't a paper audit.
21:37
Your audit is demonstrating you know what you're doing, you're
21:42
keeping people safe and you're meeting that level of compliance
21:47
that the Commission want you to. So sure, you could check GTP it,
21:51
but you're not going to know what you're not necessarily
21:54
going to know. You've got it right.
21:56
And sure, you could buy a business that's already
21:59
registered, but you still have to personalize all of this.
22:03
You're going to have to do some work.
22:04
Or you could pay the money. Start afresh.
22:08
If you want to go with a consultant, go with a
22:10
consultant. Ask around.
22:11
If you want to work with me, you can work with me, but ask around
22:14
and see what you're getting for your money.
22:16
Just just ask the questions. Few support workers that would
22:20
be listening to this and thinking about whether I go
22:22
business, whether I do keep doing an independent and see
22:26
where where the registration lies.
22:28
A few of them sometimes going to be scared by the auditing
22:32
process with it. Can you rest assured that for
22:36
some people that auditing isn't really a bad thing, It's
22:39
actually a good thing that it gives you a benchmark and
22:42
something that we all work towards for providing really
22:45
good quality care for the people that we serve?
22:46
Yeah, I love that question, auditing because you want to
22:49
pass it, especially to get registration, right.
22:52
But a good auditor is going to say, all right, so when looking
22:57
at what you are doing, well, we're looking at what do you
23:00
understand about providing personal care or what do you
23:04
understand about providing social and community care and
23:07
think safety and duty of care. So duty of care to yourself as
23:12
the service provider or business, duty of care to the
23:16
participant, duty of care to the community.
23:19
Because if you're taking someone out in community and they get
23:22
triggered, what are you going to do, right?
23:25
Like, so it's understanding all of these things.
23:28
And a lot of what auditors are looking for is that incident,
23:33
minimizing opportunity for incidents, which is where your
23:36
risk assessment comes in. Like it's when you understand
23:40
and then the feedback that you get, if you can look at it as
23:44
not a criticism and not a failure because you often get
23:47
time to rectify certain things. Now you can't go back if you
23:52
only got your your documents and that and you only did things for
23:56
today because you're going to go for audit, but you've been
23:59
working with someone for 12 months or two years.
24:01
You can't go back. I don't recommend backdating
24:04
anything ever. I've I've heard of it done.
24:07
I've seen it done. It's it's a big no, no.
24:10
You got to be honest, right. And sometimes what happens is
24:13
you might be better off just getting a whole new AB Oh,
24:15
sorry, an ABN and just starting afresh.
24:18
But that's a discussion. It's not a just discuss it with
24:22
somebody. I very, very carefully.
24:24
Yeah, but the biggest thing is, is think about risk.
24:29
So when the order to give you some feedback where maybe you
24:32
could improve, go see it as an opportunity.
24:35
Oh, wow, I never looked at it that way.
24:37
I didn't understand that. OK, now I'm going to learn.
24:40
Now I know it, right? You only know what you know, and
24:44
you don't know what you don't know.
24:45
I've got a question. Sorry, Yeah.
24:47
So. He was talking about 90% of
24:51
providers being registered and 10% not.
24:54
How does that but like Hannah? When when I heard.
24:57
That I was like, Hannah, how's that going to look like?
25:00
How do you get into like there's probably a few people going how
25:02
do I become the 10%? Yeah, I, I.
25:06
I don't know from the minister's perspective, I just know when I
25:10
think about what the task force did in 2023-2024 that Bill
25:15
Shorten put that together, Natalie Wade LED LED that and I
25:20
do have that that report and then I broke it down for those
25:26
of us that needed it broken down.
25:29
And so I would think that that 10% would be cleaners and
25:36
gardeners. I just, if we go by what Natalie
25:40
Wade had put down, then I, I think it's and any stores, but
25:45
ironically I have heard that Bunnings is an NDIS registered
25:50
provider. So I don't think Coles and
25:53
Woolworths are yet, but, you know, there's still time.
26:00
There is still time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:02
I, I thought that that was interesting.
26:04
And not to be mean, but I, I couldn't kind of take him 100%
26:10
serious that he understands the NDIS the way you and I do.
26:13
Because when he said that plan managers were pushing for plan
26:17
reviews, I'm like, wow, I didn't know plan managers changed their
26:20
role. Like, so he's his error.
26:23
Was it? That's a support coordinator.
26:25
But Sarah, where do you think the support coordinators and
26:28
virtually plan managers are going to sit because he did
26:30
discuss that one in that. It's weird about all that
26:35
because they were talking about plan management getting a cap by
26:38
like 30%. So at the moment if you're using
26:40
a plan manager, it's like $140.00 a month that you're
26:43
spending. You cut that, it's like $98.
26:47
I haven't heard any of them be up in arms about losing.
26:51
What is it like 50 bucks? They don't get a lot as it is
26:54
per plan anyway. One part of me is like, oh,
26:57
that's quite interesting that they're not complaining about
27:01
that. But then when I look about it,
27:03
there's three big players in plan management.
27:05
So I was like, well, is this the way to reduce the amount of plan
27:11
managers in our sector? Because a bigger guy can, you
27:14
know, outstand this storm or the small one may not because that
27:18
is a lot. And for for a small provider to
27:21
lose down to $98 a month, you got 20 people, it's not the same
27:25
income anymore. It's a massive drop.
27:28
And with plan management, there is a lot to do with it.
27:31
And I sat with a lot of plan managers at a previous role and
27:34
you would hear how many times they had to send it back because
27:39
it was wrong. The workarounds and the work
27:42
around it is not that easy and simple.
27:45
The amount that they send back for people to correct is quite
27:48
high. So all that time like I, I
27:51
remember thinking, God, is it even worth being a player
27:53
manager? Because the amount that they've
27:55
sent back this one, this one person in particular, I was
27:57
like, they keep sending it back like that.
28:00
They have by far 100 and was $140.00 for that for the month.
28:04
Go on like you know in hours and admins spent chasing this one
28:08
thing. I think a bigger provider can
28:10
get away with it. I don't.
28:12
Not sure about the small ones yet, but yet they've been quiet
28:15
which I thought was odd. Yeah, I think, I think they're
28:18
processing because I remember when the allied health got their
28:22
cut and it was like petition and we're fighting and it was such,
28:26
so loud. And guess what?
28:28
It didn't work. It didn't didn't make any
28:29
difference. And and I've had a lot of people
28:32
that have come to me and say, Jackie, we sign our petition
28:34
about we've got to bring these changes and they can't do it
28:37
without us. And I'm like con on a minute,
28:39
like, let's face reality. And for all the people, all the
28:43
independents or support workers in particular that say they will
28:47
never bring the thing in because they can't do without us.
28:51
I, I hate to burst your bubble, but they can.
28:54
So if all of you left tomorrow, OK, that would be a little bit
28:58
of a problem. But I work with providers how
29:01
they can expand quite rapidly. And if you leave, I'm getting a
29:06
bit animated. If you leave, that's your
29:08
choice. And what are you going to do for
29:10
job? Yeah, I got told there's always
29:12
another support worker. OK, I get it.
29:15
Like, yeah, and I got it doesn't sound very human that saying a
29:20
statement like that. But there's other people out
29:23
there looking for opportunities for to work and love working in
29:27
the support worker field as a profession.
29:30
And it might not be straight away, but eventually we all get
29:33
replaced because someone's looking.
29:35
Yeah. So, so for the support workers
29:38
and the sole traders out there right now that are thinking that
29:42
they won't bring this in, look, they've been trying to bring it
29:45
in for years. So I can understand that
29:47
skepticism. I can understand, yeah,
29:49
whatever, which is why I say to people watch, like be prepared,
29:54
be prepared for registration from the 1st of July or from
29:58
tomorrow or from whatever. You, if you're running your
30:00
business properly under best practice strategy right now,
30:04
then guess what, it's not that expensive.
30:06
All you have to do is go through like maybe have someone like
30:10
myself just go through and check everything.
30:12
So do a gap analysis and then prepare for audit and then do
30:17
your application, which most of it you could do yourself.
30:20
But once again, if you need someone to sit with you, I know
30:23
quite a few people that are not after doing it for you, they
30:26
will do it with you, which is the best gift to yourself.
30:30
It might be time consuming so really the cost is some time.
30:33
Maybe a gap analysis or a coaching session or a brief
30:37
consulting session and then your audit.
30:40
It's not going to be $35,000 or something like that.
30:43
Unless you suddenly expanded from a sole trader to a company,
30:47
then it's a whole other discussion.
30:48
It's being prepared and I think we should all be prepared
30:51
because there was also the talk of kicking 160,000 people off
30:56
the NDIS. And then I started to do some of
30:59
the maths like oh goodness, like, you know, some people do
31:02
move away from the NDIS and support stop for support
31:05
workers. That can be quite a like if you
31:08
think about it, might want one person a week, give or take.
31:11
Let's just just, yeah, figure here, one person that you
31:14
provide might be $300 a week. If you get 2, maybe 6-3, maybe
31:18
900. Yeah, let me give a bit of a
31:20
like a estimation here. You can you lose some of the
31:24
people that you're providing care to, that means you're
31:26
losing a bit of your income as well.
31:28
So it's also having, I think strategies in place that you
31:32
know, if and like even with plans being cut at current that
31:35
no one's talking about we, I know we discussed this before,
31:37
but we need to have plans in place that if people are going
31:41
to leave, if I'm an independent and someone's going to leave, I
31:44
need to be able to put myself in a position that I can pick up
31:47
more work or work for a provider.
31:49
And there's nothing wrong with working for a registered
31:51
provider too. If you're an independent or a
31:53
few people I don't think you know inside dies a little
31:56
because the flexibility isn't there, but the protection is.
31:59
Yeah, yeah, 100%. And just on those, those figures
32:03
too that I've seen in the media that it costs like, you know,
32:07
they go, oh, it's on average $62,000 per person, which I
32:11
mean, I'm sure like me, you've seen some massive plans and
32:15
you've seen some short like. Small plans.
32:17
Some really depressing ones. Yeah, yeah.
32:20
I have it, I, I quest like and people are going that's a lot of
32:24
money. And I said, well, let me break
32:25
it down for you because 10 hours, sorry, 20 hours of
32:29
support work a week, which for some people is not enough.
32:32
Like you know, that's helping them get out of bed.
32:34
It's only three hours in a day. If we added it to 21, that total
32:40
over 52 weeks is $72,000. Now we haven't even added on the
32:44
plan manager. We haven't added on allied
32:46
health. And then if they get a support
32:49
coordinator on top of that, we haven't added in that.
32:52
So that would be actually smaller services like it's not a
32:58
lot. Yeah, but then I look at when I
33:00
see those hours and I try to think, I think, God, that's
33:04
might be somebody trying to get out of bed to go to work.
33:06
Like just because somebody has a disability doesn't mean that
33:10
their care is just providing like through like shopping or,
33:15
you know, getting to appointments that actually might
33:17
be getting somebody out to get to work as well.
33:19
And they can contribute to the community as well.
33:22
So it's, it's a bigger problem in that in that sense, when we
33:27
need to justify it. And so one part of my like, my
33:30
thinking was how did, how do they know the exact #160,000?
33:35
Where do they? Pull that number from and how
33:38
did he decide 600 was and then and then I didn't mean to cut
33:42
you off, but then my brain went to.
33:44
So let's say we get to 6000 people, right?
33:47
What happens when someone else needs to be on the scheme?
33:51
Here we go, not sorry, we're capped.
33:53
I don't know like. Is it like my thinking is, do we
33:55
move people from NDIS to aged care a lot quicker than what we
33:59
previous had? Yeah.
34:01
Because then the funding is different.
34:03
Yes. Yeah.
34:04
So I was like, what? I was like, oh, because there's
34:06
people that are past the age of 65 getting NDIS funding when
34:10
they could hypothetically get under aged care.
34:13
Yeah, Yeah, I looked at it as well.
34:18
Like if I go back in time, because I, you know, I can
34:22
reflect now. Back in the heyday, they used to
34:24
rate people out of the system out of five.
34:26
And the funding was according to where you sat on your level.
34:31
And I recall when like Level 1 was somebody that never needed
34:35
services. It's just not.
34:37
I have person here and there and that used to be like doing like
34:41
$6000 a year. Then the next person was around
34:44
like the 12:14 and then why we built itself up.
34:48
I sort of wonder are they bringing something like that in
34:50
because it's if you sit on the lower end of the scale, you
34:54
don't need as much support. And that, that would almost fit
34:57
in with the ICANN assessment, which is what the minister
35:01
referred to as that standardised one.
35:04
That's all about the capacity. I, I look without getting, you
35:09
know, shot down by the, the, the listeners and viewers.
35:12
I actually think that's a really good concept because it's about
35:17
supporting you. So if you need a lot of support
35:20
because you have very little capacity, OK, that that's valid.
35:24
But if you don't, if you have a high capacity and there's just
35:29
maybe those occasions like people with autism and ADHD and
35:35
acquired brain injury, and there's just some days where
35:38
it's just too hard and you need that because then your capacity
35:42
is diminished on those those tough times, then that's a fair
35:47
assessment. Like, I know it could go
35:50
anywhere, like, yeah, like how it could look, but I was just
35:54
curious about have they already like, put it like a sticky note
35:59
on certain files? I went right.
36:01
This person, Yeah. A part of 160 like I just I
36:05
found that there's got to be more things at play than we're
36:08
aware of. And we, we've, what we're, we're
36:11
learning with AI right now and who's not spending their plans
36:15
and why. Oh yes, now that's a good one as
36:18
well. Like you could just imagine them
36:20
sitting there going, Oh yeah, that's, they're definitely in
36:23
the one. You know, it's a one out of 100,
36:25
the number. And then when I was doing
36:28
support coordination, I came across about 5 people who had a
36:33
plan. It was like a two year plan, had
36:35
spent nothing on it. Local area coordinator gave gave
36:41
the company I was working for the these plans and then my boss
36:44
gave them to me and I rang up and I said, so you've got an
36:47
NDIS plan. Do I?
36:49
And I went, yes, like it's this and this is what it looks like.
36:53
And I went, Oh yeah, we didn't know what to do with that.
36:56
Yeah. Because no one had connected
36:58
them with the support coordinator to understand what
37:02
it all meant. Now we.
37:04
So then I said to her, Well, I can come out and see you face to
37:09
face and sit with you and just break it down or what it means.
37:12
And she goes, can you e-mail it to me like what it all means?
37:15
And I went, OK, is there a reason you want it via e-mail?
37:19
And she said, yes, I don't like people.
37:21
Oh, well, that's a fairpoint. So I said, but this will involve
37:26
people, so why don't I e-mail to you what it could look like?
37:30
You get back in touch and if you prepared to meet some people, we
37:33
could do that. Now, this took six months to
37:36
actually get to meet people and like to the next level, but that
37:41
had been and we were pushing because if she didn't start it,
37:46
she would have like she would have been taken off the scheme.
37:49
Yeah. And and it was all.
37:50
And what it came down to is not that she didn't need it.
37:54
It's just her fear and judgement, her trauma.
37:59
And also then nobody explained it, didn't understand it, didn't
38:04
know. What's a plan manager?
38:05
Where do I find them? Why do I need a support like
38:09
what does it? What does core support mean?
38:11
Like who does that cover? It is so confusing even
38:14
explaining quarterly. Funding and the rollover whether
38:17
it happens and they're talking about taking the roll out over
38:20
out yeah so at now for providers it's really quite can be quite
38:24
difficult because you you're not just the only provider providing
38:28
support to this person. So it's kind of like a game who
38:31
can get it into pace quicker, so I can guarantee who can eye
38:34
batch this real quickly so I can actually, you know, sign it off
38:37
and actually get paid for the support before the other.
38:40
Priority gets in. Yeah, yeah.
38:42
And the thing too that they haven't even discussed self
38:48
managed participants in it. Yes, there was no mention of it.
38:52
And I was like sitting there waiting manage participants and
38:56
without being nasty, if we want to tap broad on the shoulder,
39:00
it's across the scheme. It's not just the providers, it
39:04
is not just the unregistered providers.
39:07
And just because you have your NDIS registration doesn't make
39:10
you a good provider. Like that's not the tick of
39:12
approval. And so if you're a participant
39:16
or a nominee listening to this, you know, check people out, like
39:21
watch for it, keep an eye on the funding like you would your bank
39:26
balance. Yeah, do do that.
39:28
Because at the end of the day, if you're not approving
39:31
invoices, people can put whatever they want on that
39:35
invoice. And unless someone goes, that's
39:37
a bit strange that they usually do 2 hours and now they're
39:40
suddenly done 4. If nobody's doing that, you just
39:44
want two hours of support. And they can be, it's a kilo
39:47
from kilometers as well. Like, yeah, they travelled 700
39:50
kilometers, didn't they? You know, I cross it.
39:54
It's almost like, but as we getting like systems are getting
39:58
smarter too, you'd be really silly to play with it because
40:01
yeah, we'll get caught. It's not a matter of if, it's a
40:03
matter of when. Absolutely.
40:04
And that comes back to what we were talking about before about
40:07
that evidence, you know, because anybody can write anything in a,
40:11
in a shift note or a can note, anyone can put anything on a
40:15
plan. But I I can tell you right now,
40:18
I can tell when it's been made-up and when it's actually
40:22
true. Like I've, I've read some care
40:25
plans. And I mean, you didn't ask the
40:27
participant any of this. Yeah, you know, you didn't
40:29
confirm any of this. I mean, yes, I did.
40:31
I mean, no, you didn't because that's not what you're case
40:34
noting, you know, so sure, give it a go if you really want to.
40:38
But it's, you know, you will, as Sarah said, you will get caught
40:41
out. But I think the biggest thing is
40:44
in all of this is that many of us said have been around since
40:47
day one or the even the planning stages have gone.
40:51
That's nice that we're not commenting like, I mean, sure, I
40:55
did the breakdown and I did that live that's on my YouTube
40:58
channel. But we're not focused on this
41:00
being a bad thing. We're not focused on this being
41:03
a good thing. We see good and we see
41:06
challenges in all of it. But aware that it needs to
41:10
change, like something needs to give somewhere along the line.
41:14
And this is one of the things that have to give to.
41:16
It's kind of like having a reset, and it's resetting of
41:19
what good care looks like. What the aim of the NDIS at the
41:24
very beginning was about choice and an opportunity to have
41:28
control, but also to connect with others.
41:32
Yep, I'm sure you were there in the Red Sea as well.
41:35
Yep, Yep. And I got there.
41:36
Then I remember being a new, new nurse, enrolled nurse that we
41:41
called back in the day at Saint Vincent's Hospital many, many
41:45
moons ago. And we, I remember being on
41:48
night shift one time and I walked in and went, where is
41:50
everybody? Like?
41:51
And they said, well, we've got scallard and stuff.
41:53
And I said, why? And they go because we're
41:54
protesting. I said at night.
41:55
And I went, yeah. And I said I'll stay in the
41:57
ward, it's warmer in here, but I'm still.
42:00
And I said, I promise I'll protest tomorrow.
42:02
I mean, but we're all all for, you know, the ending, yes.
42:05
Because we all know it. People have more now than
42:08
they've ever had and we you cannot deny that there is no
42:12
NDIS anywhere else in the world but Australia.
42:14
Services and systems as much as like when I hear people complain
42:18
about it and then like my, my enemies, like all back in my do
42:22
like it was worse. So what we got now is like, it
42:27
is good. Yeah, we want better.
42:29
Yeah. It needs to be fixed because
42:31
there are parts of it that don't make sense and that does rhyme.
42:33
And it's all in the best interest of the person we serve
42:36
because we can see that by using all these multiple different
42:39
services, it's draining their funds for what they actually
42:43
really need to be and where they need to be in their lives.
42:45
Because it's a whole life approach and how we can support
42:49
them to live the life on their terms and just be like you and I
42:52
and have an ordinary life. Yeah, and that's what I read
42:55
somewhere too, that I won't get this right, but this person said
43:01
the NDIS gives me what an another person takes for
43:05
granted. 100% do you? Remember the first lot of when
43:09
the first NDIS plans came out and I, so back then I was on
43:13
block, like I learnt block funding.
43:15
So I knew that I'm the first plan that I opened and went, Oh
43:18
my God. This person now gets to have an
43:22
opportunity to leave their house after they finish their service.
43:26
They get a 1:00 to 1:00 to go to the gym to work on their health
43:28
and well-being. They never had that before.
43:31
Beforehand it was mum and dad doing that.
43:33
We now have an opportunity on the weekend to go hang out with
43:36
my mates, go join the local, the FIFA footy clubs.
43:40
I get to do things that I never got to do before.
43:43
Now I have these opportunities all like when people first
43:47
entered the NDIS, it's felt like their whole world's exploded
43:50
with opportunities of things that they couldn't do beforehand
43:53
and we took for granted. And then I see why a lot of
43:56
people are quite fearful because I remember what it was like this
43:59
having it, knowing that I've got this opportunity and now that it
44:02
might be taken away from me and I might be a part of the cuts as
44:04
well. So that's here is quite
44:06
overwhelming for a few people. Yeah, 100%.
44:09
And I think that there is a lot of genuine, real fear out there
44:14
for people. I remember, you know, like a
44:16
family member of mine, I call them auntie and uncle, like
44:19
they're my godparents. And their younger daughter had
44:22
Down syndrome. Carmel's crossed over now.
44:25
But remember saying my aunt just not long ago, and I said, like,
44:30
you just got on with the job because it wasn't NDIS.
44:33
There was there was group activities where Carmel could go
44:37
and she could learn to cook and she found a boyfriend and all
44:40
these wonderful things. But for the most part, it fell
44:44
on the family. And like any parent, you worry
44:48
about what happens to your children when you're not around.
44:51
And the last thing that they ever wanted was come to go into
44:56
a group home or whatever. And they made her as independent
44:59
as possible because they learnt around Down syndrome and they
45:03
did what they could. But imagine how my auntie's life
45:09
would have been, especially when my uncle was out working, what
45:13
her life could have been like if a support worker would have been
45:16
able to take Carmel to the the group activity or something like
45:20
that. Well, the aim of the NDIS was to
45:22
keep people in their homes and their families longer.
45:25
So it was only it was the NDIS started it.
45:28
That's how it looked. Then in between all that, the
45:31
seal space just came about. Like it came into play a couple
45:36
years later and absolutely exploded.
45:38
It wasn't ever that way like before.
45:41
Like if I think of the really beginning of the NDIS face, a
45:45
lot of people that it was really hard to get into a service, to
45:49
live in a house with other people.
45:51
And if you did, you live with another 4, it wasn't a space of
45:55
one to three and it was very selective of the houses that
45:59
were able to run it. And, and compared to now where
46:04
there's a lot more. Before there were like 5 big
46:06
providers and a few for profits, but they were very small.
46:09
They were the for profits for the majority, and the nonprofits
46:14
were. Small guys, yeah.
46:18
And I think too that while it has come a long way, I think we
46:22
do need a lot more governance over sell homes.
46:25
They they have been to some and they they have not been nice.
46:30
And also we had to schedule the visit.
46:36
Wasn't. Yeah.
46:37
And, you know, like I was going with someone because we were
46:41
building a case that they asked me to come with them and just
46:45
be. And so we just said, look, I'm a
46:47
family friend. They didn't know who I was.
46:49
And I remember going in to this house and I just shook my head.
46:55
Now, I didn't know these people and I didn't know the the woman
46:58
that I was visiting that well. But I heard, I heard the story.
47:02
I heard, you know, and even over a period of time of us going
47:06
back, but you could see the decline in her and she just
47:10
didn't want to. And she lived in a house where
47:13
the support team were not the same culture as her.
47:18
And she didn't like that, that culture.
47:21
Food, like there was a lot of things that she literally
47:24
couldn't eat wasn't, umm, discrimination, but because
47:28
that's all I would cook. She didn't eat.
47:31
She lost weight, all these things.
47:33
But the scheduling of visits and things like that.
47:36
Now I know the staff have to be safe.
47:38
We have to know who coming and going.
47:40
And especially when we went through covert times, like I
47:42
understand all of that, but this supported independent living,
47:48
which the minister has made reference to as well.
47:52
It says it's supported independent living, not we're
47:56
running this place and it's like a hospital or whatever.
48:00
So I think that when any sealed providers out there, and I think
48:05
this is where the independents are going to get caught out
48:09
because independence, providing seal as a team are all going to
48:13
have to be registered. Yeah, like, and and there are
48:16
massive funds. This is part of the research I
48:18
was doing in the legislation. It's massive fines if you aren't
48:22
once it's mandated. So, but The thing is, this is
48:28
someone's home. You're in your home, I'm in my
48:31
home. If somebody said, you know, we
48:35
have to scream whether your friends come over to visit or
48:37
not. Find it so wild because I like
48:41
and I didn't think that this was like I thought it was common
48:45
practice. I thought it was common practice
48:47
that people, when they live in a seal, they'd come together and
48:50
discuss the menu for the week and doing what and what's going
48:53
on. And you meet together and have a
48:55
conversation like, yeah, my on Friday there's a shift swap.
49:00
There'll be Elliot instead of Sally.
49:02
And then actually, I feel really uncomfortable with Elliot.
49:05
I'm female. I prefer a female support
49:07
workout because I've got personal care and things that I
49:12
thought I was used to that model with you when it was only 5 big
49:18
non for profit model, 5 big non for profits.
49:21
Looking over the accommodation space at that period of time pre
49:24
prior to the NDIS, I bought the NDIS a model like that would
49:29
come along with it, but it didn't and somewhere in between
49:32
like I was like, I feel like I'm like I'm visited a few myself
49:36
and I was like, I don't know if I'm in prison like I've never.
49:39
I don't feel very independent and I don't feel like I have
49:42
choice. And when you create like, I know
49:45
I'm off topic, but when you create a, if you're a provider
49:48
of SEAL, you need to create somebody a home so they live
49:50
there for decades, not for tomorrow.
49:52
And you have to provide that safety and that security for
49:56
them. But also they have choice
49:58
because the support workers, the house supervisors, they come and
50:01
go. They come and go.
50:03
The churn rate too high. If I can create a group of
50:06
people that can live together, enjoy living together, and have
50:08
a really big say about how they live together, them staying as a
50:12
unit and enjoying each other's company is by far more
50:16
important. 100% and, and it could even be the opportunity to
50:20
build some capacity and have a quality life just because
50:25
somebody and, and their funding is 1 to 3.
50:28
So they're almost forced into living with other people.
50:32
It's no different to Sarah, you and I in, in different times,
50:37
being uni students or whatever, going and looking for
50:40
housemates. It's the same thing in theory.
50:44
However, we just need other people to come in and help us
50:47
out. Yeah, get that.
50:50
And yeah, we should get, and I don't think we're off topic
50:53
because I think it it's all just part of it all.
50:56
It should be the yeah, I think it should be a standard that
50:58
people meet and talk and have an opportunity to talk about their
51:01
supports as well and what they look like and what sits well and
51:05
have the right to complain and advocate for themselves.
51:08
This should be normal practice. If nobody is making a complaint
51:11
within your service, regardless whether if you're a registered
51:15
or non registered. If no one's making a complaint
51:16
in your service and your service has a.
51:18
Problem. Oh 100% same as same as I went
51:22
to like I, I go out to company sometimes and do gap analysis
51:27
and I go so show me your incident register and they go so
51:31
and it's empty and I go what do you mean it's empty?
51:34
Show me your complaints. Register, Yeah.
51:38
And they go, well, it's empty and I go you bit.
51:40
I get feedback all the time sometimes that I don't really
51:43
want it. But you know, you can't grow,
51:47
you can't know how well you're doing if you don't get feedback.
51:50
I used to do complaints management.
51:53
We were called CL, OS, complaint consumer liaison officers in a
51:57
big Melbourne hospital. Technically, we were the
51:59
complaints department because we didn't get a lot of compliments.
52:03
Like. Because, you know, the nurses
52:06
got those. I used to sit there and go.
52:09
Good. Another opportunity for quality
52:11
improvement. Yeah, I.
52:12
Hope for somebody like I podcast with this dude a while back and
52:15
he said to me a complaint as a gift Yeah yeah alright.
52:19
You don't like, tell me more. I mean, cause how are you to
52:22
know something is wrong in your service and where it's missing
52:26
if you don't receive it and if you keep going without any
52:29
complaints and your, your service has a problem.
52:32
But it also means that in our sector, we're not lifting people
52:36
up and letting them advocate what they like and what they do
52:39
like. And somebody that is well heard
52:41
is more willing and will stay with you because you as if I
52:46
draw this back to seals, you can get kicked out as a provider of
52:48
a seal house. They can vote you out and get
52:51
another provider. That can be done.
52:52
Yeah. And what, and just to add to
52:54
that, what a lot of people don't realize is that there's the sale
52:58
agreement and then there's a tenancy agreement.
53:01
Yeah. So that can.
53:03
So if you've rented as the provider, if you've rented the
53:06
house, you know to fill it with these people, and then they say,
53:11
actually we don't want you as our provider anymore, then
53:15
technically they've signed a lease to live there.
53:18
So you can't boot them out of the house unless you've checked
53:22
your tenancy law in your state. And yes, they can bring in a
53:26
different provider. Yep.
53:28
And it can be done, and there's plenty of providers out there
53:31
willing to take it. Yep.
53:32
So you're best of doing best practice, best listening, and
53:36
putting these things in play prior to that even happening.
53:40
I love your passion for the industry, Sarah, and the value
53:44
that you bring because you've been around for some time and
53:48
seen the different layers of it. These are laughter lines.
53:56
Exactly, exactly. I'm sick of this year.
54:00
Don't tell anyone, but you know, but also the way like what one
54:05
of the other things that I love is that you're bringing
54:07
empowerment to the participants and their their family or their
54:11
informal supports or whomever else, as well as the support
54:14
workers because without the participant.
54:17
We don't have jobs. Yeah, to be honest, we don't
54:20
have jobs, We don't have an income.
54:22
So we should be very cautious. I'm very aware that all of this
54:27
comes because somebody has a disability, or else we wouldn't
54:31
have an income, we wouldn't have a job.
54:32
Everything would change because of that.
54:35
And we have to acknowledge the fact that we only exist because
54:38
of. It Yeah, yeah, I love it Well
54:40
guys, we're gonna leave it here because honestly, Sarah and I
54:43
can be still here in 24 hours so and and I mean like we're like
54:48
yeah, we we're both very passionate if you haven't picked
54:51
up that we're passionate, I'm telling you we're passionate.
54:53
And so both Sarah and I are going to release this, this
54:57
video. So you're going to see different
54:58
shots, you're going to see lots of it around.
55:00
But you know, follow both of this because between us, we, we
55:05
kind of bring it all together. Sarah brings her strengths, I
55:08
bring my strengths. And it is all about empowering
55:11
people to live a quality life. So thanks for being here
55:13
tonight. Really appreciate it.
55:15
Enjoyed it, thank you so much. You're welcome.