Latest / Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth / 85: Dan Parelskin, VP WW Sales @ Axis Security on getting the first customers and intentionally creating a sales culture

Transcript

85: Dan Parelskin, VP WW Sales @ Axis Security on getting the first customers and intentionally creating a sales culture · Cyber Go-To-Market Talk: The Cybersecurity Podcast About Cyber Sales, Marketing & Revenue Growth

• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the Bite Size Sales Podcast, where we believe that sales at B2B startups should be easier than we often make it, and that it's plain wrong that sales teams at startups don't get the help to succeed like sales teams at their bigger, more well-known competitors do.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: If you are a seller or a sales leader at a B2B startup, especially if it's in the cybersecurity space, you are in the right place today.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome to episode 85.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Our guest today is Dan Perelskin, a longtime seller and leader of sales teams at cybersecurity companies.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: And he's currently the VP of worldwide sales and solution architects at one of the fastest growing cybersecurity startups right now, Access Security.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Dan, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Andrew.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Excited to do this, been looking forward to it.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's gonna be fun going over some ground here.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_03: Before we get going, just quickly, we have a sponsor today, which is autoband.ai.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: Autoband solves that problem where you know that you need to do a lot of research into your target companies and target personas, but it's tough to do all the research.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's tough to go and look for all the contextual information that you should have to personalize and make your outreach relevant for that persona and for that company.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's so hard to do, but it's so important to do when you're trying to stand out in the marketplace.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: What Autobound is able to do is take all the work out of doing the research and also creating the outreach uh emails and talking points for your calls.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: So if that's a challenge that you're faced with right now, I recommend you go to autobound.ai.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, Dan, let me do the quick summary of your career as I found it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: You actually start off working in very, very tough transactional sales environments in cars, mortgages, and recruiting.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: These are you know notoriously tough worlds.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's very transactional.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: In my mind, anyway, you might want to correct me and say I've got it all wrong.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then you were at a technology company, is it New Star or Noistar?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: New Star, yeah.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: New Star.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then after a few years of that world, you start off in McAfee in the mid-2000s or so, spent five years at McAfee, two years at Tanium, a year and a bit at Hacker One, uh, a quick stop at Elastic, and now for the last 18 months or so, two years almost, you've been the head of worldwide sales over at Access.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Have I got that about right in general?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and I think you're right about car sales and home loans, very transactional.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: The good thing is it taught me how to deal with a lot of different people very quickly and earn trust and respect quickly.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: The bad thing when I made the transition to B2B sales was I was way over my skis.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like I had no idea how to make that transition.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was missing the instant gratification of quick closes.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I was honestly really uncomfortable for the first six months.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad you're calling that out because that was actually a really challenging change for me that I think some people don't have to go through when they learn it the wrong way.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: When you switch, B2C does not help you very much in B2B in a lot of ways, and that took some adjustment.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you make the switch?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh 2008, I went from leading a team to 70% of our company being laid off.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I was at elone.com.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'd actually arrived at a lending company that was online, got involved with our web team a bit to work on conversions of applications to close.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lot of fun.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was actually kind of a blend of a tech company and a mortgage company.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: But lending got really strict when you know the mortgage crisis and the real estate crisis occurred.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we were working twice as hard, making half as much money.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Most of my team got laid off.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up taking another individual contributor role in my last of my four years there.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was that time to go, you know, I was starting to get bored with it as it was, and it was that time for me to go learn something new in an industry that was growing instead of shrinking.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I made the change over to New Star.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of the guys that actually that worked for me had gone over there and I went to work for them as peers.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's great.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's it's uh it's a different world, right?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: V to C or you know, working with consumers and working with businesses and corporations, whole different buying process.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of the fundamentals are probably the same, but quite how it all works out is is so different.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: Let's talk about Dan though.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: So there is no better way to learn about someone than by pulling up a few of these bullshit LinkedIn polls that are out there.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I found four this morning I'm gonna ask you about, and I'm looking for your answer.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: So the first one came from a company called Job Finders.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: Which do you prefer to work with, Mac or Windows?
• 5:38
  unknown: Mac.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know what was interesting for me was the 72% had responded Windows.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can see why on the in a couple ways.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: What I struggled with when I transitioned to Mac back in 2011 was right when we met when I joined MacAfee, was where my stuff gets saved.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not as easy as and as intuitive as Windows, but everything else I like more, and the hardware's so elegant.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a Mac at this point.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can't I'm a Mac and I can't go back.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm thinking the same.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: Sarah Hodges posted a poll.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: What candy are you stealing from your kids after this weekend?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: Is it Snickers, MMs, Skittles, or Reese's?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: So our son Wyatt is two years and three months, and he would not wear his Halloween costume at all.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, he would he's really into airplanes, so he got him a pilot's hat.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: And despite that, he would not wear the pilot's hat, so he got no candy.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I had celery today.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's funny.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: The market, the LinkedIn market responded with by far the favorite was Reese's at 47%.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, peanut butter at least has some sort of uh health value in there.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: I I think it's the sugar that people are after, frankly.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: So Reese's followed by Snickers followed by MMs and then Skittles.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: So there you go.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Skittles are yeah, I can see that's I think Reese's more adult food.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Next one from an organization called the Graduate Project.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think the four-day work week is a good idea?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's an interesting one.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as a non-college graduate, I'm open to the idea of having one more day on the weekend.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think different countries have a different perspective on work ethic and time of day and that kind of stuff.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, my brother works for the city of Bellingham where I live, and he does part of the year four, 10-hour shifts versus you know five, eight-hour shifts.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's some benefits and some drawbacks of both options.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: I think it'd be worth a try.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how well it'd work in tech, though.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the quarter, I can always use that extra day.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say that.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot depends on your role.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think you know in sales, you work when you have to work, right?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's there's no prizes for taking a day off if you're in any way uh struggling or not quite where you want to be in the month or the quarter, right?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Good point.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think uh the fact if if you're saying that I'm currently working five, eight hour days, that's just not the case.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: So uh and then the final one, and perhaps the most important question or poll was from Skylark Feeds.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: Who is known as the mother of broiler poultry farming?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: Is it Dr.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: Mary Engel Pennington or is it Wilmer Steele?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right, this one I did not see coming.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go with Wilmer because that sounds like more of a farmer's name, but I can't tell you.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: It was actually Dr.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Mary Engel Pennington.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: Uh bummer.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't, Dan, I don't know how you can possibly lead a team if you did not know who the mother of broiler poultry farming is.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you gotta feed the team.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh definitely part of building a good culture, but I usually think of uh commissions rather than chicken.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: So let's go back.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh seven-year-old, eight-year-old Dan, where in the world were you and what were you doing?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: What was your thing back then?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, seven or eight years old.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was very much into sports, uh, a little bit into like remote control cars at the time, I think was pretty big for me.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: So actually, I think I started my first business right around then.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was a little entrepreneurial when I was young, and my parents had gotten me a rock tumbler.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I somehow had started a rock collection, and so I started tumbling rocks from the yard and trying to set up a stand and sell the rocks.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: It turns out that there's an abundance of rocks, and I learned my first lesson in supply and demand because it was not a terribly uh successful venture.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, hold on a second.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: You said rock tumbling.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: What the heck is that?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: I've never rock tumbler takes an average rock, you put it in there, you put in some like, I think it was some sort of sand or uh you know, some sort of material, I can't remember what it was, some sort of dust or something, and it would yeah, it would spin around for you'd run it for days, and then eventually the rocks would be smoothed out through the process and throw some water in there, and these like three different levels of whatever this you know dust was or whatever, grind on the rocks.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's what rock tumbling is.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was trying to deliver better rocks, and I got a feeling that I probably racked up my parents' electric bill more than we drove revenue.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Cost of goods was not uh not positive.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, what did you move on from rock tumbling in your teenage years to do as your hustles or your jobs?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So my first real job was actually taking the pool covers on and off at my local pool and and adding in chlorine, which was actually a pretty big responsibility at the time.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And if you didn't scoop that chlorine right, you'd get a good little nose full of it, and that was not a comfortable experience.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: You had to be really careful around that.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: But that was like my first real job, and I think the worst part of it, aside from the chlorine up the nose, was you had to get up pretty early because people want to get to the pool pretty early.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I was not a morning person as a kid, and I had to, I think I was be down there by like 6 30 or 7 a.m.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: to to take the pool covers off, which for a weekend, you know, is my weekend job was not an ideal.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: But that was the first thing I did when I was in maybe middle school, and then in high school, I got my first job, my first what I call real real job, you know, beyond that, which was working in a pizza parlor delivering pizzas.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, getting tips.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And man, I worked with some really crazy guys at that place.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: These guys, uh there was a running bet on who could hold their hand on the uh stove the longest, on the in the oven the oven the longest, which is uh yeah, very teenage situation.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's gonna be one of those Darwin Award uh yeah nominations right there.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely a Darwin Award situation with these guys.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I seem to remember you used to, you maybe still do, did a lot of trading or buying and selling of cars and things like that, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: Is that always being part of your DNA?
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that was actually part of the experience at Elon when when things went south in the mortgage business.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I just started seeing a lot of people selling really cool cars for like way less than what they were before.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I started buying them and then realizing that like if you bought it in a certain market where it was, you know, maybe a certain city, you had a downturn, and you could go resell it in a more affluent city because a lot of the upper echelon didn't, you know, experience as much downturn during the mortgage crisis.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that was actually the trick, is I'd go buy them in like certain cities outside of the Corby area and I'd resell them in like Walnut Creek or Rinda or somewhere nicer like that.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I just did that as a side hustle as I transitioned from being a leader in the mortgage business to going back to an inside sales role at New Star and cold calling and not getting commissions for a while because of those long B2B sales.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So gosh, I probably sold tens of cars throughout that two-year period uh where I was transitioning in 2008, 2009, maybe in 2010.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Probably was doing like 10 or 12 cars a year on the side.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Any truly unique ones or ones you remember?
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a couple.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I bought a yellow Dodge Viper, not my personal choice of what I'd want to be seen in necessarily, but again, something that got hit pretty hard.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was finding those, you know, had been$90,000 cars two years earlier, and you could get them for like 40 grand and resell them for 45 or 50 or whatever, so you can make a couple bucks.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then 2004, I think it was Maserati Coupe was a pretty cool one.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: They had a Ferrari motor, 400 horsepower, which at the time was a lot.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: These days, Tesla and everyone else has raised the bar, but yeah, that was a neat one, it's not a great, and got to drive in my first Italian car.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So those are cool ones.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: I also was not shy about buying like a$5,000 Audi or something like that that had been beat up pretty good and just recently now for six grand.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, good for you.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_03: So let's fast forward then.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: Almost two years ago, you joined Exassecurity, and you joined as the first salesperson, the first person with a sales title.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: When I believe I remember rightly, this was when they were still in stealth mode.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: Is that right?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's correct.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was no website when I joined in December of 2019.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: There were no paying customers.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: There was one small company in Israel called Cellcom that was starting to like use the product for one use case on one app, but really never run it in a production environment aside from that.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we had a lot of lessons learned in our first VPOCs about just basic things about networks that some of our team didn't even realize existed because most of them were former 8200 guys that had broken into networks and didn't have to think about how you know good authentication worked.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: They usually found bad authentication and broke into that.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so we had to revise a number of things, a lot of 3M, 4 a.m.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: warnings for them, being on calls with me with you know really big companies, some of which I can't mention because we're we're under NDA with them.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: But we got our first six-figure deals within a few months after that.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I came in as the first BDR, the first sales rep, the first sales leader, the first sales engineer, our CTO was doing most of the demos at the time.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started doing the demos.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it was me and 15 other people and when I first started.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there's only only one other person in the US was our CMO that had joined just before me to mirror it off.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: And quickly fast forward to give you an idea, give us an idea of the scale right now.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Where are you at?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we hit 35 this week across sales, sales operations, BDRs, sales engineers, and uh the channel.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so in a couple of years, you'll be able to scale at the team.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: Give us the 30-second uh pitch on what does Access do?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Access Security is securing the modern workplace by connecting users with the resources they need to do their job without putting them on the network or depending on the concept of the network for trust.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so we help customers adopt a zero trust approach or a secure access service as a badge approach by moving them off of the traditional VPNs or saying, okay, if you have an IP address on the network, you're trusted, and I'm going to give you full access to my server or application or resource.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: The future of secure access in the workplace is regardless of where you are in the office working from home in Starbucks, you get one seamless experience and it's secure, great for the user.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we help companies transition from a very legacy approach to the future.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're not, uh I think of us as like a really a transitional technology.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: We're not something that says, hey, everything's going to SaaS and we're going to take you to SaaS.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of it.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And part of it's saying we're going to take your old legacy application and make it feel like SaaS.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're we're really helping these legacy companies or companies that have built networks use those networks and convert those networks into something more modern.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a message that seems to be resonating with the market right now.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: Talk to us about the first few wins.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, where did they come from?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: How did you approach that?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: What did you learn?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the first few wins were really interesting.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: We were very fortunate to have Cyber Starts, which is a spin-off of Sequoia, is the general partner from Sequoia, Gilly Renan, started Cyber Starts a number of years ago.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: And CyberStarts was our seed round.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we were fortunate to have them as our seed round because they have a ton of relationship with CISOs, CIOs, VPs.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so they had introduced uh Doran Gill before I joined, a few months before I joined, to some accounts that were starting to think about how do you want to, you know, how do they want to go around this zero zero trust journey and what were they seeing in the market?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the first few deals were kind of served from them, some from my relationships, and some from my cold calls.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what we learned very quickly was a huge part of the concern at the time, which was you know late 2019, early 2020, was third-party access.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Having a third party on your network was very risky and problematic.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the time to provision, deprovision access was very challenging for our customers.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So our agent list approach, which was unique, was very impactful for the ones that cared about getting them off the network.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the positive.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: What we learned that was tough was that that quickly transitioned into now everyone's working from home and they need basically the same level of access they had in the office, working from home.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And our solution did most of it, but not all of it.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: So our first lesson learned was the market can change quickly.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we went from really selling a zero trust solution for getting third parties off the network where we were uniquely positioned and way ahead of our competitors, because we built it from the ground up just to do that, to having to go combat competitors that were actually better positioned for remote access.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: We had to go back to the drawing board and talk to the board and say, should we go develop an agent to help with all these users that were going to be working from home?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And man, I had never seen a team pivot and deliver so fast.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I guess that the big lesson out of that was be light on your feet when it's early and don't have too many assumptions based on what you've learned so far.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because those assumptions may be proven, no, no, I don't say incorrect, but the priorities will change.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we had to learn how to adjust really quickly.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was a great lesson for us because it was such a fundamental change in our strategy at an early time.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, that was uh March and April 2020 as COVID hit, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: About four months after I joined, uh, three and a half months after I joined.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the day that shelter in place occurred in most states was the day that our website went up on March 17th.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was like the bottom of the stock market, too.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: So it was up with the third-party access messaging, right?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: We started to pivot and we we had identified that there was going to be remote access to these cases before this point happened.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm a big subscriber of forest management, as you know.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that they say is be attached to the biggest business problem.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that biggest business problem went from the risk of third parties and the fact that that was slowing down when you're trying to partner and bring in contractors that was slowing down their businesses and productivity to we need to keep the lights on.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's working from home, and we're either going to extend our VPN hardware and licenses and stuff, or by you, or by Zscaler, or by someone that's in your space.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, just our sales motion changed at that time.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: The priorities of that customer changed, and we had to, you know, two ears, one mouth, really listen and hear that and figure it out.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm curious about uh what tools helped you with the listening side of that and the really, really understanding what you're hearing from these people.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Because you're a lot of learning at that point, right?
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: So right at that time, in fact, that day on March 17th, I signed a contract with Chorus.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: I almost didn't because I was, you know, there's a lot of unknown at that time.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, is the stock market going to crash further?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: How how bad is this gonna be?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: I knew we were attached to the problem and we could adjust to deliver a really good solution for the problem.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I also knew that budgets get really tight.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: I watched it happen when we talked earlier about the mortgage crisis before.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'd seen what happened to the economy and how buy cycles changed and stuff, even going into technology, um, where you know, a director used to sign off on a six-figure deal when I started in technology.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: All of a sudden you had to get to the CFO to get a sign-off on anything at that downturn in the economy in 2009.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I was going, is this gonna happen again?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it did for some of our prospects.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: We had a large airline that was almost about to purchase, totally back out of a deal.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it was it was gonna be a massive win for us and gonna do you know 20, 30 percent of our revenue for the year.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a really tough moment.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we bought chorus, and chorus let us start to analyze how are we how are we talking to customers, what's working, what's not, because at the time I think we were very uh I think Gong has a good you know mantra on this, like goodbye opinions, hello facts.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: We were a little opinionated, everyone had a different perspective.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: Our CMO thought one thing, I thought another, our founders thought another thing about how we should talk to customers.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And chorus let us start to see what good looks like and what bad looks like, actually, just as important and not only understand how we can change our behaviors, but understand our customers better.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we now had recordings of customer quotes that we might forget about and stuff.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So starting to record those calls at a high frequency and analyze the results and you know, just kind of come together as a team and learn from it was really impactful for us.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, I I think a lot of people have in their minds still that these conversational intelligence tools are really just for bigger teams and call coaching and things like that.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think at early stage companies, it's it has to be one of the most powerful things that you have to really go back and listen and hear what hear what you're hearing, as it were, from your prospects and how they describe things and you know go back and and remember again how they reacted when you you said various things in a period of experimentation, which is really what often Happens early stage, having that source of truth is so important.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if I look back, like I've had points here, I've had 20 to 30 customer calls a week.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, back then we were getting sometimes only two or three, maybe five or six.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So with less total calls, you really wanted to take everything you could.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I remember we had this killer call with one of the sporting orgs, you know, one of the three-letter sporting orgs.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: I won't say who it was, but man, I was like, wow, that was what that was a great call, and I really just wished I had it recorded so I keep learning from it.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's not only uh a phenomenal tool for like kind of conversation intelligence, is some is sort of what they're calling it, but also the ramp time and the amount of time it takes for someone to shadow 15 calls used to be three months, we can now do it in three days.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so that really shortens that time to competency for reps and ability to to ramp way way faster.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: And we're gonna talk uh about culture in a second.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: Before we do that, since you brought up how important it is to, you know, how you describe things, things like that.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: I got a quick challenge for you first.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna read out what three companies in the cybersecurity space, how they describe what they do.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Off the three, two are real companies and one is made up.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to see if you can guess which is the made up one.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, you good for that?
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: You put me in the hopefully, hopefully, you you won't know people at the companies if you choose the wrong ones.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: The first one, uh, company is redefining the vulnerability management software category as a single source of record for all assets, vulnerabilities, and associated data.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: We unlock the value you're not getting from existing tools and place you squarely on the path to program maturity by unifying the people, processes, and technology involved in vulnerability management.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's company A.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Company B company offers real-time protection for your cloud workloads using AI to identify and block threats as they occur.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: Company self-healing, agentless approach means that organizations could quickly and easily get up and running and have minimal ongoing maintenance.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: And company C eliminate lateral movement and data exfiltration with companies' agentless app native security and visibility.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Company seamlessly injects runtime applications with ultra-light security controls, creating dynamic zero trust and enabling apps to fully protect themselves against lateral movement.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: And product name provides app native agentless security powered by runtime policies and pico segmentation.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: Three companies A, B, and C.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm trying to do two things.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: One, look at the words that you said, and then two, analyze the person reading them.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And based on what I know that you know about, I'm gonna say that A was probably the fake one because the other two, I'm just not sure.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: The the second one sounded like it could be fake too, because there's a lot of buzzwords, but like I'm just gonna guess that, like, given your time selling the Fountain Stone product at McAfee, maybe you made up the vulnerability management one.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: All three of them sounded totally like they could have been real to me because that's just the buzzword bingo of our industry.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: So, in fact, the made-up one was company B.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: B, okay the one in the middle.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to know who A and C were?
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: Do I know who they were?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh do you want me to tell you?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm guessing either Risk Sense or Kenna for the first one.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And the last one, zero trust with no agents.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe something like, I don't know.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can't guess who we're okay.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: So the first one was actually nucleus security.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's company A and Company B S C was Avocado.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Avocado.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: This one.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I I think it's it's interesting, you know, as we think about how we describe what we do, we want to communicate with our prospects and get them excited.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, sometimes, you know, no wonder people get a little bit confused, right?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Indeed.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think um a lot of companies sound the same.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm super excited.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: We recently hired Chris Hines at Axis, and he's totally trying to change the narrative around our particular space to shift to the concept of securing the water workplace and really a business outcome versus you know just what we do is why we do it.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's uh a really cool, cool change.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: So, speaking of adding new people into the team, one of the things that is always impacted as teams grow rapidly, like your has yours has is culture and the values that you want to instill in the team that you think is going to drive success.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: How are you thinking about culture in your team right now?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm a believer that great teams outperform great players.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I love the the book by Patrick Lencioni, Five Dysfunctions of a Team.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it talks about if you don't have trust as a framework, you can't get to trusted conflict or or healthy conflict, you know, talking through things, debating things.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Without the conflict, you can't get to the idea of buy-in.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and without buy-in, you can't get to accountability.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: And without accountability, you can't get results.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it really starts with trust.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for me, it's staying close to being a rep.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times you get into cultures where leaders have forgotten what it's like to be an individual contributor, or they believe in the stick versus the carrot.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes we just put the priorities out of order.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: Just like we do in sales, believe that you have to be understanding before you're knowledgeable with customers, right?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Being interested versus interesting.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think as leaders, building a really effective culture is being interested versus interesting and trying to empathize with your team and understand what they're going through.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: And from there you can start to build up things that motivate them based off of who they are and how they think and what they're looking for.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's one element of it, is just understanding your team and what makes them tick.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think the second big one for culture is changing how you hire to look for the qualities that make someone successful.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard, and I hadn't heard a lot of good methods on how to hire for the right people in your company and build the right culture through hiring until I saw it done really well at Hacker One.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And Hacker One had created just a phenomenal culture, uh, a candid culture, and one where everyone kind of acts like an owner is one of their mantras.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I took some of what I learned from there and some of the other companies and started, you know, inputting some of that into my hiring process and looking for certain attributes.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like even Hacker One hadn't really like called out unique attributes that I thought made for a great culture and a great sales team.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you hire for those right attributes, then you don't have certain behaviors occurring in your sales team that make it not fun to be on.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like people that have entitlement, people you know that put themselves ahead of the team.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, those things were attributes like curiosity, adaptability, resourcefulness, discipline.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: And when you when you start hiring people like that, what you're really doing is you're hiring leaders versus followers.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And look, there are moments that we have to come in and and help our team and show them how to do things and whatnot.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: But if you hire a team of leaders, then a lot of what's getting figured out is happening in the team.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: And everyone feels like they have ownership.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you give people ownership on top of you know that first concept of trust, that really good things happen.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, any examples of how you test for those values, though?
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's not something that you can look at a resume and go hear someone with curiosity or or adaptability.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, how did how do you get that out of the discussions you have with candidates?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so my first interview personally is actually very uh very unstructured.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's usually a 30-minute interview, it's on Zoom or in person.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I get to see the person and see kind of how they're ticking, and the the voice isn't always enough.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you can get the video, it's better.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I start the first 15 minutes with questions for them, but they're like fairly loose.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's only only like two or three questions that I ask that kind of inform some of the things that we that we just discussed.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: I actually get most of it in the final interview.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the first one's like, do I want to buy from this person?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And do I trust this person?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: And what kind of person is this?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: What I want them on the team.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's sort of the three things I'm trying to get at the first call.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I ask a few questions around just their sales philosophy, like why do they think customers buy from them, or what do customers look for in a sales rep, those types of things, just to see what they think are really important.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what are the top three or three things that you think customers look for in a sales rep?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or what do you look for when you go to buy something from a salesperson?
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what would you want?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that kind of gives me some cultural alignment.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: And if I see that right culture and someone I'd want to work with, then our last part of our process after they talk to a few other people on our team, is we actually have them sell our product to us in a discovery meeting and we give them some tips, but we also keep like three or four nuggets that they have to uncover.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it really shows us are they gonna come in here and just pitch for half an hour and uh show up and throw up, or are they the curious type that not only are curious about learning about what we do and becoming valuable and knowledgeable people in our space, but also are they gonna come in and actually actively listen to customers and show them that they care?
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that nuance is uh it can be nuanced, but it is uh some very distinctive things that we look for.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll throw out something during the role play, like, oh, that's that's interesting, and see if they go, what's interesting about that, Dan?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and start to dig deeper.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we really look for the type of people that we'd want to buy from and then put them through a process that helps us understand.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do they do you know generic discovery first-level questions, or do they know how to dig deeper into plus ones, plus twos, and and go further and show the customer who they are.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: And now that you've got first line managers underneath you managing the individual contributors, uh, how are you continuing with the the methodology you've created?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Still learning, actually.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is a new role for me.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: We still run like an all-hands sales enablement call once a week that you know you and I have managed together.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm still learning just as I go into this new role, how do we continue to look for the right attributes?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: We still run the same process, so I'm still involved with all those final interviews.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that you know, I've passed that along to my you know, to our first level leaders.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, basically a lot of it doesn't change.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't always do the first call now in terms of the hiring process.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of the enablement, you know, it goes back to the same thing as before on culture is we need buy-in, so we need our our first level leaders also bought in with the strategy.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And what do we look for?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Do we believe in selling in the force management framework, digging deeper, watching a lot of chorus calls?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that we've seen is the reps that have watched the most chorus calls tend to be the ones that also do the most business.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they become the most expert and useful to their customers, they find their mistakes better than other reps.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if we all are bought into that strategy of trying to get better and continuous learning, that things you know go very well.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I noticed back when you and I first worked together, or second time we worked together at Tanium, but first worked together in an enablement and sales leader capacity, was that people that came into Tanium and thought they could sell it, like we sold McAfee or how they sold Symantec or Cisco or whatever failed miserably.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's the people that came in that were curious and open and adaptable and were open to a new way of talking about the problem, a new way of selling that became really effective sellers fast.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it seems like the fundamentals don't change too much from company to company, but actually how you execute them in proportions at the right time and are open to taking on new ideas really differentiates sellers.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: Certainly earlier stage companies, when you know I keep coming back to this, things are so unknown.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of assumptions, but you we just have to believe that there are assumptions and therefore need to be validated or or not.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: And you can't do that if you're fixed in your ways and fixed in how you think this should be done.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's an art and a science, and part of a scientific process, which is one of the few things I learned in my short time in college, is that there is a process, and part of that process is analyzing the results and being results-oriented.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, something's not working, you try and stop doing it as fast as possible and pivot to something that does work.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, to your point there, the fundamentals, doing discovery is something that's fundamental in any company.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: But when we were at McAfee, we were selling a financial outcome with a partnership where a customer would take multiple tools from multiple vendors and turn that into a partnership and an ELA with McAfee, right?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: That was the how you how you closed the big deal at McAfee.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Here at Axis, when we first started, we had a you know a smaller product that did one thing extremely well that no one else could do in the industry.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we couldn't come in and kind of use those same models.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: We still wanted to do good discovery, but we weren't discovering towards the concept of reducing cost.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: We were going to be an added cost.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, from a subscription perspective, there wasn't like an existing license.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: We were going to take away cost on OpEx and risk and help with the productivity of the users, but the ROI was very different versus selling McAfee.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And if the ROI is different, then to your point, the proportions in which you do things and how you work with the customer to define value and to make a business case are very different.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, it's it's fascinating.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: I guess that's where the, as you were saying, the adaptability is so important with people that come in to A take on new ideas, but also in their tenure, be able to keep learning and adapting as well.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I know some of the people on the team are very serious about how they go after listening to chorus calls, not their own ones necessarily.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: Anyone in the organization just for tidbits to pick up on and learn and and understand what they're doing a bit better.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I also get the most conviction from when a customer tells me something's good.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, a big part of having chorus snippets and just generally adapting is listening to your customers and listening to your prospects.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: If nine out of ten are telling you, okay, that's nice, but they're not taking a second meeting, maybe it's time to pivot and/or ask them, what did you not like about this?
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: and start to dig into that thing that you can change and figure out if you can fix it.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: Good, good.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: Let's get in the final stages here, Dan.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, quick question for you.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: What sales question or sales saying that you've heard, uh, you may have used it yourself, who knows, that you would just like to dispatch into the far reaches of space, never to be used ever again by any seller anywhere.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, you're asking me for one that I thought was awesome.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: So now I've got to pivot.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think pretty consistently for the last five years, what keeps you up at night has been like almost a trigger word for prospects.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like once in a while, if you have the right rapport, the right situation, or the right person, it might work.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I've watched meetings, yeah, I've been in a two-hour meeting that could have been amazing.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: The first was one of the first questions that a rep asked, and you could just see it was sour from there.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: The rest of the time, it was like they're on the defense.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I think that is that that question is a sales question.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not really a consultative question.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's not what a consultative person would ask.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a question that's saying, What's the pain that I can go sell you something on?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, a consultative person might ask, like, curious if you're being kept up at night as a starting point.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then go from there.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you know, questions that make you sound like a salesperson are usually not good.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that's one of them.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's quite a lazy question as well.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not quite sure what to ask.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: Let me just you know, pull this out of my back pocket.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: I remember actually 20 years ago, 19 years ago, I took the president of the company I was at to go and meet the the CISO at Charles Schwab, and uh that was the first question that was asked.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: I felt terrible.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: I just sat in my chair and just slunk a little bit, going, Oh, I can't believe they just did that.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you can see the CISO just his shoulders kind of dropped, like, oh my god, are you serious?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this person I'm talking to has got a big title, and they just asked me that question.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's gotta be better than that.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, anyway, so Dan, I imagine you might be hiring right now at Access.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: If someone wants to get hold of you, what's the best way to do that?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, either uh go to our website, it's access security.com slash careers, or we have the jobs posted on LinkedIn, and feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn to uh inquire as well.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: We have a ton of rules open across sales, BDR, solutions architects, which are our sales engineers, but they also do some post-sale work, channel, and across the company and many other areas in RD, product management, marketing, and so on.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: So uh a lot, a lot going on here.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're growing fast.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: We got you know 100 million in funding on Series C.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: And for us, people are our greatest asset.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: And any opportunity to talk to great people about a potential career path here is something we'd love to uh love to do.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: And just to be clear, XI security is A X I S security, not X S.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: And how do the people spell your last name, Dan?
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Good question.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Perel skin is P is in Peter, A-R-E-L-S-K-I-N isn't Nancy.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: All right, so if you want to get hold of Dan, go to the careers page or go to LinkedIn and look him up there.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: With that, Dan, many thanks for your time today.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: It was great catching up and hearing some good perspective and stories.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I wish you all the best at Access.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, thanks, Andrew.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: And since we didn't get to it, I gotta give you a shout-out also.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: My first real learning and professional cybersecurity sales was when you handed off part of the territory to me, and I got to see how you did it.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: And just so everyone knows, Andrew went on a plane flight with me to go do handoff meetings and stuff in territory, which was very generous.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh gotta give you a shout out because I don't know how well I would have done ramping up without your help at that point in my career.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: Nah, you're too kind.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: All right, Dan.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: Great to catch up.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: Take care.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.