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X-Men 97/Classic X-Men 4 Script Reading! My Brother, My Enemy! Plus an interview with Paty Cockrum! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Graemeolkin Lane podcast, where queer friends and allies gather to review and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order.
• 0:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: We are in the middle of the Claremet Well, the early part of the Claremet era, having such a fun time exploring these early X-Men scripts on the show, just a delight to have this incredible group of talented people joining me this morning.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: We are recording this on May the Fourth Star Wars Day.
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: And we're not releasing this until July seven, so it's always crazy to record these so-called advance, but I am thrilled to be reading X-Men No.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
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• 0:44
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• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: The script we're reading today will also include the bonus pages done by Claremont and Cochrom.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: Many years later, from a classic X-Men number five, and we'll be reading the backup story from classic X-Men number four, which is a fan favorite.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the story called The Big Dayer.
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's from December, nineteen eighty six by Chris Claremont, John Bolton, Glynis Oliver, Tom Orzikowski, and Annie Nesente and Terry Cavanaugh on edits.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: We open on the blurb.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: Cyclops, Storm, Banshee, Nightcrawler, Wolverine, Colossus.
• 1:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: Children of the Adam, students of Charles Xavier, mutants feared and hated by the world they have sworn to protect.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: These are the strangest heroes of all.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: Stanley presents the uncanny X men.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm Chad Anderson and I'll be playing your narrator today.
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm Justin Wilder and I will be Professor X slash Clancy.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm Seth Martell.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_09]: I will be Cyclops and James.
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm Sam Scaram, I'll be Storm and Dorian.
• 1:56
  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm a George Michael Mike Doven, and I will be playing Colossus, and I'm typecast as George.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm Kevin Canary, and I will be playing Nightcrawler.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm Sean Beverage, and I'll be playing the Harry Banshee.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_07]: Nope, Banshee and Harry.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_21]: I'm Sean Rouhani, and I'll be playing Wolverine, and arguably more importantly, dude.
• 2:15
  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm Robin Muffin, and I'll be playing a Myramic Taggart, and Harry Morrow.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm Alicia Wilder, and I'll be playing Marvel Girl, and Susan.
• 2:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: My Justin, also known as Jay Cosmic, and I will be playing havoc and grease.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm Steve Duda, and I'll be playing Eric the Red and Edward and Marty.
• 2:36
  [SPEAKER_10]: First, we begin with classic X-Men number four, the backup story.
• 2:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: On the cover, John Bolton gives us a gorgeous image of storm in her classic costume flying through the air, being attacked by creepy little bug demons that are just pawing at her everywhere.
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a reference to last month with the under eye.
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: On the back cover, we see Wolverine, claws out.
• 2:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's looking everywhere for Kurt Wagner, who has just teleported up into a tree and is looking cocky and cozy all at once.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_10]: Their names are Nightcrawler and Wolverine.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: One teleports, the other is a hunter, Wolfar X-Men.
• 3:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: Members of that band of unsung, often outlaw mutant heroes.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a game.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: Nightcrawler teleports over Wolverine, surprising him both are in full costume.
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: Tug, mind-friend, you're it!
• 3:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: And he teleportes right back out, bam, for peering behind him, playfully knocking his friend over and flipping away.
• 3:22
  [SPEAKER_08]: Going doctor try harder than that to catch me, nice move, and fast too, but I was raised in a circus.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_20]: Remember, I learned acrobatics as soon as I began to walk, fancy footwork's fine for show, elf, not combat.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_08]: How I do my job Wolverine is my business.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_08]: So long as that job is properly done.
• 3:41
  [SPEAKER_08]: If I choose to do it with a little style, a little panache, a lot of fun, where's the harm?
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_08]: Besides, for all your glam, grim determination, you've learned to lay a glove on me.
• 3:52
  [SPEAKER_08]: Face it, you're beaten, bamf!
• 3:54
  [SPEAKER_20]: But this time Wolverine has an elbow ready.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_20]: And his claws are out, the heck I am.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_20]: Don't hear no laughter now, blue boy.
• 4:01
  [SPEAKER_20]: My bones are laced with that amantium.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_20]: Makes him virtually unbreakable.
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_20]: Stronger and steel.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_20]: If I'd really hit you, you'd be history.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_20]: But I prefer to finish the job with my claws.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: Smack the claws are back in.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: And he helps his new friend up.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_20]: Look into my pale Bub.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, how moment I- I- I thought- What's a matter?
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_20]: You don't trust a pal?
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_08]: Some day, pal.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_08]: The shoe would be on the other foot.
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_20]: Never happen.
• 4:26
  [SPEAKER_20]: Yo, elf, where are you going?
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_08]: Our bet was.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_08]: Luza buys the beer.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_20]: I've just watched to get some from the fridge.
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_20]: Forget that.
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_20]: I've been cooped up in this monastery to flame it long.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm in a mood to party.
• 4:37
  [SPEAKER_20]: In town.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: He few insist, but the beers probably won't be as good.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: What the heck is that?
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: Metcrawler pulls up on a small flip phone device.
• 4:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: Insider buttons and with a click, Metcrawler's appearance changes to a man and a scarf jacket hat and sunglasses.
• 4:53
  [SPEAKER_08]: An image inducer.
• 4:54
  [SPEAKER_08]: Professor Xavier secured it for me from industrialist inventor Tony Stark.
• 4:59
  [SPEAKER_08]: It costs a perfect delusion to disguise the appearance of its user.
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_08]: Click, he becomes Charles Xavier.
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_08]: This device, click, he becomes storm.
• 5:08
  [SPEAKER_08]: I can look like, click, he becomes Wolverine.
• 5:11
  [SPEAKER_20]: Never, I please!
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_20]: What's a matter of his fit?
• 5:14
  [SPEAKER_20]: You ashamed of the face you were born with?
• 5:15
  [SPEAKER_08]: Of course not.
• 5:17
  [SPEAKER_08]: I merely being practical.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_08]: No sense in terrorizing the local citizenry, and thereby making my own and de-exman's lives miserable.
• 5:26
  [SPEAKER_08]: He changes back to the man in the coat.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: On the junction of Route one twenty six and Gray Malkin Lane stands a tavern that dates from the revolutionary war.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: It had fallen on hard times, become in fact a pretty sleazy dive until Harry Moral bought the property years ago and restored it to its former comfortable charm.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: The food is good, the service friendly, the atmosphere, homey and relaxed.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: The hideouts become an ideal place to spend an afternoon or evening.
• 5:51
  [SPEAKER_10]: Enjoying the company of friends and strangers.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: The new X-Men discovered it within days of their arrival at Xavier's school, and in the months since it become welcome regulars.
• 5:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: Outside, a science says Harry's fight-away in friendly cursive.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_10]: Inside, Harry, a portley man with a thick red mustache, wears the variant clothing while he wipes glasses dry.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: A skinny blonde woman reads in the background.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: The two friends sit in a booth with bottles of beer in their glasses, plates picked clean with fish bones on them, sit to the side.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd master the triple summa sort.
• 6:21
  [SPEAKER_08]: I was working on the quadruple, then I had to leave the circus.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_20]: It sounds to me like you love that life pal.
• 6:27
  [SPEAKER_20]: Why'd you quit?
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_08]: The Yamacht was sold, and the new owner has no interest in me as a trapeze artist.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_08]: He funded me on Decide Show is fun at the freaks.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_10]: Wolverine lights up a cigarette and casually grabs the image inducer.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: Then you're ashamed.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_08]: That's isn't true.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_08]: I've pride in myself and my skills.
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_08]: That is all.
• 6:46
  [SPEAKER_20]: Not hardly at eight.
• 6:47
  [SPEAKER_20]: Proud man doesn't hide behind toys, crawler.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_20]: How can mutants ever expect to be accepted if we keep hiding behind masks and facades?
• 6:55
  [SPEAKER_20]: If we're worth anything, we ought to stand straight up until the flame in world.
• 7:00
  [SPEAKER_20]: This is who I am.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_20]: Take it or leave it, but we don't.
• 7:03
  [SPEAKER_20]: Because we're scared.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_20]: I am not prove it, dump that gizmo and walk right out there is door and down Main Street as you really are.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_20]: That's insane, then don't do it.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_20]: Play life safe.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_08]: Easy for you.
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't look so different.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_08]: The night hair professor Xavier rescued me.
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_08]: I've been chased by a mob.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd have been killed if not for him.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_08]: And yet, the mob thought mistakenly that I was a murderer.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_08]: There's no reason for anyone here in Salem sent her to film me.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_08]: Other than my appearance, and I am sober, assuming I live so long.
• 7:36
  [SPEAKER_08]: I have a feeling I shall regret this.
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_08]: Never know.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_20]: People may surprise you.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_08]: You're enjoying this.
• 7:42
  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a joke to you.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: Life's a joke pal.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, he hits the image inducer and changes into his blue skin, just as Harry himself walks over to clear the table.
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: Another roundlads.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_08]: Harry didn't bat an eye.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_20]: Told ya.
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_20]: Up an atom hero.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_20]: The town awaits.
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_08]: Perhaps another gallon of logger before I go.
• 8:06
  [SPEAKER_08]: They both go up down one last drink.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_08]: You've had enough.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_08]: Quit stalling, start walking.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll be right behind ya.
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_08]: That is not an altogether comforting thought.
• 8:16
  [SPEAKER_18]: I'll fit to say in Harry, Susan, lunch was delicious.
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_18]: Anytime, champs.
• 8:21
  [SPEAKER_13]: Harry, that man's face!
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_13]: He has a tail!
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_18]: I, and a handsome one it is, too.
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_13]: Huh?
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_10]: That's right Susan, huh?
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_10]: Indeed.
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: In his circus uniform wearing a brown hat and a cane, that crawler walks down the road, Wolverine a few paces behind him.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_08]: Everyone, stairs.
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_08]: So fast, so good.
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_08]: Harry's reaction was very non-schulant.
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_08]: I've heard mentioned that he and Professor Xavier were old acquaintances.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_08]: I've heard that if he knows of the school's true nature, and those people are staring.
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_08]: They stared in the circus.
• 8:51
  [SPEAKER_08]: That was different.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_08]: That was a stage of his play, a part of a cast.
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_08]: I felt safe there among friends.
• 8:57
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not the X-Men friends.
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_08]: Consider this thing.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_08]: A larger stage.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_08]: Smile.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_08]: I need to cut to see a charm, won't hurt.
• 9:04
  [SPEAKER_08]: Think of your idols.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_08]: For a distant, earthling.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_08]: Follow their examples.
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_09]: It's an actor, Doris has to be.
• 9:10
  [SPEAKER_08]: George, that's the best makeup I've ever seen.
• 9:13
  [SPEAKER_09]: Or maybe a fraternity initiation.
• 9:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: From the college.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_10]: Wolverine smiles as a bald man in glasses and a woman with the worst hair you've ever seen.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: Peer around the corner.
• 9:22
  [SPEAKER_08]: Fantastic!
• 9:23
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm actually beginning to enjoy this!
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_08]: Good and tag mine hair!
• 9:27
  [SPEAKER_08]: A lovely afternoon is it's not by that's to front!
• 9:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: A damsel in distress!
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: Metro!
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: We're ignores the man with stink face walking by and rushes over to help a woman in a pink dress gather up her groceries.
• 9:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: May I be of assistance for eyeliner?
• 9:41
  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you!
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_15]: That's very hard!
• 9:44
  [SPEAKER_08]: Until very lovely.
• 9:46
  [SPEAKER_08]: If ever, I may be a further assistance, you have but to ask me.
• 9:50
  [SPEAKER_08]: Nitroler kisses the woman's cheek and walks away smiling.
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_15]: What's an extraordinary young man?
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_10]: There he is, ma'am.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_15]: Great smile.
• 9:59
  [SPEAKER_15]: Be nice to meet him again.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: Nightcrawler passes two young boys, Edward and James, standing in front of a Star Wars poster.
• 10:06
  [SPEAKER_08]: You'll jump in like this film.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_08]: I also jubuck us my favorite character.
• 10:11
  [SPEAKER_08]: I have a friend who's much shorter but almost a tary and I always let him win too.
• 10:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Edward, did you see it?
• 10:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yes.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yes.
• 10:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why don't we tell mommy and daddy James?
• 10:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: We just met a real live alien.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: Next brother comes across a few local fugs hanging out at a convertible.
• 10:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: One of them, Marty, leans on the side and a tight green polo in slacks.
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh oh, I'd have feeling distroved as to pleasant to last.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_08]: Geez, Marty.
• 10:36
  [SPEAKER_08]: What's this town coming to?
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: They let anything walk the streets.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_08]: Yo, do you lose from the zoo or the loony bin or what?
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_08]: I beg your pardon.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_03]: Radical accent.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe he's Arnold Schwarzenegger in disguise.
• 10:49
  [SPEAKER_03]: You know what you look like, Crout?
• 10:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's in just fun to fool.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_08]: And if you have no objection, mine hair.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_08]: I feel continue.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: Marty grabs the hero's face and grips.
• 10:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: Nightcrawler easily pushes his hand aside.
• 11:00
  [SPEAKER_03]: When we're finished, we're now, hey, this ain't no mask.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever you are, it's real.
• 11:05
  [SPEAKER_08]: Please, come yourself.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_08]: I want no trouble.
• 11:07
  [SPEAKER_08]: Wolverine leaps in knocking Marty over, and he pops his claws.
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_20]: Ah!
• 11:12
  [SPEAKER_20]: Delight for that misfit, jump call the tune.
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_20]: Now he pays the Piper.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: Snicked!
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: Wolverine, no!
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: The two mutants disappear.
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: Bamf, they land on the roof above.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: What the?
• 11:23
  [SPEAKER_13]: They disappear!
• 11:24
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's integrated.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: Was it a monster?
• 11:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: No.
• 11:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't never want to find out.
• 11:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's blow this bird and never come back I literally wrote a script rather than moth it in her best other accent that was brilliant
• 11:39
  [SPEAKER_20]: Shuttle, let me carve the bozo.
• 11:41
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm spoiling my lovely straw.
• 11:44
  [SPEAKER_08]: He wasn't worth it.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_08]: You've a right, Wolverine.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm glad you shamed me into taking your day out.
• 11:49
  [SPEAKER_08]: But I learned today, I could never repay.
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_20]: The elf.
• 11:53
  [SPEAKER_20]: What a friend's for.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_08]: And the two friends, shake hands.
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's an iconic X-Men story.
• 11:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: I can't wait to talk more about it.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_10]: But for now, X-Men, ninety-seven.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: On the cover, the heads of Banshee, Colossus, Nightcrawler, Storm Cyclops and Wolverine, Dawn, the left cover box.
• 12:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: Looking at the all new, all different X-Men logo and blue and white.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: On the ground, a plane is on fire.
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Storm rushed toward Cyclops and had a both in full costume and optic blast and two plasma bursts from hands being fired.
• 12:23
  [SPEAKER_10]: The beams bouncing off of each other.
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_10]: Storm shouts.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_12]: Stay back my fellow X-Men.
• 12:27
  [SPEAKER_12]: This is one battle that Cyclops must fight alone.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: Cyclops vs. Haddick in a duel to the death.
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: My brother, my enemy.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: Previously in the X-Men, Professor X has recruited non-new team of mutants, but they are already down one member as Thunderbird has perished.
• 12:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: The new team just fought off the evil demon, Kirak, the dam, then met their new housekeeper,
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: Dr. Moira McTaggart, it seems Professor X is preparing for a leave of absence.
• 12:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: The bard of Avon said it best to sleep, perchance, to dream eye, there's the rub, for in that sleep of death what dreams may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil must give us pause.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_10]: And if the dreams of the dead must give pause, what then of the dreams of the living?
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: For example, the dreams of Charles Xavier.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: In Red pajamas tucked under a green blanket, Charles Xavier cries out in his sleep, images of the X men swirl through his mind,
• 13:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: as well as some very strange insectoid ships in deep space.
• 13:22
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, please, no, let me be.
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: I beg of you, get out of my mind and let me be in the name of all that's holy, get out of my mind.
• 13:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: But the dream doesn't hear Xavier's anguished soul-torn cry, or if it doesn't, it doesn't care to answer.
• 13:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: And once again Charles Xavier finds himself drawn out across the infinite, drawn into nightmare, drawn into hell.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: He has seen this battle a hundred times before on a hundred sleepless nights.
• 13:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: Two mighty star fleets, creating their own private army garden, in the desolate space around a giant binary sun.
• 13:57
  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, he watches helplessly as the ten meter energy beams turn trichardian steel to puddled slag, as ruptured holes void precious atmosphere into space, and men die quickly brutally mercilessly.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, he feels the terrible cold of this alien space,
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: the terrible pain of these alien deaths.
• 14:16
  [SPEAKER_10]: And again, for the hundredth time in a hundred nights, Charles Xavier wonders if he isn't going mad.
• 14:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: The world in Xavier's dream looks like a scene out of Star Wars, space exploding in massive yellow and red and pink bursts, ships zooming in a complex aerial battle that's unlike anything he has ever experienced.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_10]: Then, as suddenly, as silently as the battle began, it ends.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_10]: Strange that so much death should occur in so much silence.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: Somehow it doesn't seem right.
• 14:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: Do one small scout craft survives the Holocaust, survives to run and hide and perhaps live to fight another day.
• 14:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: And as it runs, it draws him in, a moth drawn unwillingly into the flame, draws him closer, ever closer, tantalizingly close.
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: And try as he might, Xavier cannot resist the dream has him body and soul, and it will release him when it wants, not before.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_10]: So close.
• 15:04
  [SPEAKER_10]: This time, closer than he's ever come before, close enough to see a face.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: The camera zooms into an insectoid ship where a humanoid figure wears an insectoid space suit covering, looking like a metallic housefly with no sign of Le Landra underneath.
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: Spoilers for a future issue.
• 15:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: Then abruptly, Xavier's dream ends.
• 15:25
  [SPEAKER_04]: No!
• 15:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: He sits there a long time, the echo of his scream ringing in his ears, his body clammy, cold with sweat, his mind, and turmoil.
• 15:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: Ironic, isn't it Xavier?
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: You pride yourself on possessing the strongest mutant brain on earth, yet this dream tears your mind apart at will.
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like it or not Xavier, it's time you face the truth.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: Your mind is no longer your own.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: Using the bar suspended above his bed, Xavier pulls himself up and moves himself to the chair next to the bed.
• 15:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: He dawns a green housecoat and pours coffee at a table that contains dishes of apples and donuts.
• 15:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: Modern MacTaggart enters an assynched pink bathrobe.
• 16:03
  [SPEAKER_18]: Charles, I heard you cry out, did you have a nightmare then?
• 16:06
  [SPEAKER_18]: Lord above your chicken like a leaf, what's wrong man?
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_18]: Here, give me that coffee pot of four year burn yourself.
• 16:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey you, Moira, hi.
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: I had the dream again, stronger than ever.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: There's such power behind it Moira, such incredible power.
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_18]: Charles, you're taking too much of this on yourself.
• 16:24
  [SPEAKER_18]: You've got to open up to Scott and the others of four year.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_18]: How?
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: How do I tell them that that I'm think I'm going mad?
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_18]: It's nas bad as all that.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_18]: You called for help and I came as I said I would.
• 16:37
  [SPEAKER_18]: I had no right to ask you not after.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_18]: Don't be silly.
• 16:41
  [SPEAKER_18]: What else are friends for?
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: Moira takes Xavier's hand offering comfort.
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: Xavier smiles then, for the first time in many weeks, and the slowly sips his coffee.
• 16:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: He seems relaxed, but his eyes betray him, hunted eyes.
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: Ever shifting, never still, waiting desperately for a dawn that cannot come too soon.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: But, comet does, and two hours after it rises over Westchester, the morning sun lifts high over the Rio Diablo.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: Overland, that's a hell on earth to most.
• 17:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: And yet, to doctoral candidates, Alex Summers, and Lorna Dane, it's a kind of paradise.
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: In the desert of the American Southwest, in a small blockhouse with a Jeep parked outside, and a small satellite dish just outside, the red sun rises over the mountain.
• 17:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: Six months, they've been here working the jagged Diablo range, and in those months, what began as a friendship has become something more.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex, dressed in blue denim, head to toe, tosses a backpack on a shoulder and grabs a canteen, then he kisses Lorna Dane, who's dressed in a sleeveless purple top and jeans.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: He kisses her goodbye.
• 17:40
  [SPEAKER_15]: Face it, little Lorna.
• 17:41
  [SPEAKER_15]: After all the hassles or the grief, you've struck gold with this man pure gold.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, if this isn't love, who needs the real thing?
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_15]: When I'm with Alex, I feel whole, complete, fulfilled.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_15]: I feel like a woman, and that feels just fine.
• 18:00
  [SPEAKER_10]: Inside, in front of bookshelves decorated with rock samples, Lorna clears the breakfast dishes, but then here's a knock at the door.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: What the, someone at the door?
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_15]: But who?
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_15]: Are the only people for miles?
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, Lorna, play it cool.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_15]: If it's trouble, your magnetic powers can handle it.
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't bet on that, Ms.
• 18:18
  [SPEAKER_10]: Dane.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't bet on that at all.
• 18:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: The door opens and a blast of electric energy strikes her in the abdomen.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_10]: Sam.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_10]: What?
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: You.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: But it's impossible.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: It can't be.
• 18:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: And Lorna Dane is down.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: Nearby, Alex Summers is having the best day hiking and lost in thought.
• 18:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: I love this country.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's a purity to the desert.
• 18:40
  [SPEAKER_06]: You can't find anywhere else, especially cities.
• 18:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: A beauty like no other.
• 18:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: Except my lady, Lorna.
• 18:46
  [SPEAKER_06]: I never imagined I could be so happy and what makes it near perfect to seeing the same loony light in her eyes.
• 18:52
  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess I'm in love.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_06]: Do you hear me, world?
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_06]: I love Lorna Day.
• 19:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: Echo carries a far piece.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if she'd be heard.
• 19:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if Scott and Gene Grafe feel as crazy good.
• 19:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: I sure hope so.
• 19:08
  [SPEAKER_06]: I wonder if Scott allowed himself to feel period.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's built so many walls between himself and those around him.
• 19:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Can anything break them down?
• 19:15
  [SPEAKER_06]: Has he ever forgiven me for being adopted when he wasn't growing up in a state orphanage?
• 19:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: Can't have been fun.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: I have a real family.
• 19:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: The only one he ever had was the X-Men.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: Alex draws cosmic energy into his frame and emits a plasma burst into a nearby rock face destroying it with a zikow brilliant some geologists you are using your energy bolt to wreck the very rock formations you're here to study Scott took it hard when I decided to leave the team but don't you understand brother?
• 19:43
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm not a hero I just want to live as a normal and ordinary and happy a life as any non mute is that too much to ask uh you got to do a lower no no not that
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: But the sound of Lorna's scream carries over the horizon.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_06]: The scream sounded like him from the house.
• 20:03
  [SPEAKER_06]: Lord, no!
• 20:04
  [SPEAKER_06]: That was Lorna's voice.
• 20:05
  [SPEAKER_06]: Lorna, you okay?
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: Lorna!
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex rushes home, but Lorna appears to be fine.
• 20:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: She's pulling a new costume from the closet, a slinky number that's all purple and black with a high call or in a form-fitting lace material in the seams.
• 20:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: It almost looks like a negligee.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no need to shout Alex.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_15]: I am well.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: see that.
• 20:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: What gives Lady, I ran all the way from the Upper Canyon.
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_06]: And what's with the new costume?
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_15]: The costume is mine, Alex Summers, as the power is mine, the power of Polaris, Mistress of Magnetism, the power of death.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: Lorna!
• 20:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: No!
• 20:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: And Lorna has chosen the code name she will have forever after.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: Lorna manipulates magnetic waves and knocks havoc over with a blast.
• 20:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: But as Alex falls, another man steps forward, a man in right red boots.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: You did not kill him, child.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Good.
• 20:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: The youth will be useful to us when we seek our prime objectives.
• 21:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: When we seek the death of Charles Xavier,
• 21:03
  [SPEAKER_10]: More on this issue's mysterious threat momentarily.
• 21:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: Three days past and our scene shifts to Kennedy International Airport, and a goodbye of sorts has five friends gathered to see their professor off on a well-earned vacation.
• 21:16
  [SPEAKER_10]: Charles Xavier surrounded by Cyclops, Marvel Girls, Storm, Colossus, and Nightcrawler, Jean's dressed in a simple green top, a plaid skirt and cowboy boots, a purse on her shoulder,
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: Storm wears her tiara, and a green and gold dress with a cinched belt at the waist and huge billowing sleeves.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: Cyclops is in a blue turtleneck blue jacket, gold belt and green pants, night crawler using his image and dooster makes himself look like arrow Flynn with a wispy mustache, a blue under shirt under a gray colored shirt.
• 21:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: While Colossus wears a tight black shirt with green jacket.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_13]: And remember, not to stay out in the sun too long, you'll burn easily.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, Gene.
• 21:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll also eat properly, right regularly, and always be on the lookout for great white sharks.
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: Is there anything else?
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, no, sir.
• 22:00
  [SPEAKER_13]: I think I get the message.
• 22:02
  [SPEAKER_13]: But what happens to Benchie and Wolverine?
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_12]: I thought... Benchie is spending the afternoon with Mrs. Miss Taker.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_12]: I believe Wolverine was feeling unsocialable.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, well, I guess it takes all kinds.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_13]: Benchie and Moira McTaggart, hmm?
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_13]: Interesting.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Have a good trip, sir.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you, Scott.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: Kurt, I'll certainly try.
• 22:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, Jean, something I forgot.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Please tell Nightcrawler that Tony Stark's image inducer is not a toy.
• 22:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's to make him look unobtrusive, not like some nineteen-thirties movie stars.
• 22:31
  [SPEAKER_10]: Speaking of which, nearby, Kurt Wagner is admiring some women walking by, but Colossus notices havoc and Polaris approaching.
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_08]: Look there, my friend.
• 22:40
  [SPEAKER_08]: What does not make nificent legs?
• 22:43
  [SPEAKER_09]: I do not know.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_09]: The girls of the Ustordinski collective
• 22:47
  [SPEAKER_09]: Not wither such short skirts, filestine, pita, fatizate, lay in the short cut.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_09]: It may be nothing, but on the other hand, epic.
• 22:56
  [SPEAKER_09]: What's going on?
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_09]: Why are you in Lauren and costume?
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: Speak up, man.
• 22:59
  [SPEAKER_13]: Got wait a minute, something's wrong.
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm getting images, sensations.
• 23:04
  [SPEAKER_13]: Scott, it's a trap.
• 23:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: Polaris is ready with a magnetic burst for Jean.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_15]: Who will you've just signed your own death warrant?
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_15]: Jean, have you gone crazy, Laura?
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_06]: What do you think
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: doing.
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_06]: Doing what we have to, Scott.
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_06]: Now get out of the way.
• 23:17
  [SPEAKER_06]: It's Xavier we want over my dead body.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_06]: If that's the way you want it.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: Having luscious out with a plasma burst and outside two pilots aboard a star core plane, Reese and Clancy rush to get out of there.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_16]: Hey, Reese, take a look at these clouds, they're trying to kill each other.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I'm thinking, we gotta get out of here while we still have the chance.
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_20]: Play ahead of you, Clancy, as usual, we're rolling baby.
• 23:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: And not a moment too soon, the walls burst open with a crackdown.
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_16]: What about what are they trying to do on there?
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_16]: Is that one one three?
• 23:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure, looks like it.
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, and you better step on it, Rhys.
• 23:53
  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, one one three's coming after us.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_08]: Going for the professor's plane.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_08]: Get after them, X-Men.
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_08]: Stop them.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, you can't.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't just stand there, people.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: Move it.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: And move it, they do.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_10]: Each in their own unique style.
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_10]: Night crawler turns off the image and do.
• 24:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: Sir switching to his blue form and Colossus changes into steel shredding his clothing.
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, both were already in costume.
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: Quickly, my friend, we've not the moment to lose.
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yet for all their style and all their speed, the X-Men may have moved too late.
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_17]: But move this crate rest there.
• 24:21
  [SPEAKER_17]: That Frick's got a clear shot at us at this range.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_17]: No way he's going to miss.
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_08]: Lake Roller.
• 24:27
  [SPEAKER_08]: Look, havoc is about to fire.
• 24:29
  [SPEAKER_08]: No, my friend.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_08]: He'll not fire.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_08]: Not as long as Nightcroller is alive to stop him.
• 24:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: Nightcroller teleports forward, knocking havoc off balance.
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_06]: You fool!
• 24:38
  [SPEAKER_06]: You don't know what you've done!
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_06]: You've made my prior blast go wild!
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: Wild is something of an understatement.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: The star core ship takes off as another commercial airliner blows up behind them with a boom!
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_17]: Good Lord, Greece!
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_17]: That could have been us!
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: Just be thankful it wasn't Mr. Clancy.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: Just as the X-Men are thankful that the seven forty-seven was undergoing routine maintenance, that it was empty if passengers and crew.
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: Cyclops takes his brother by the lapel furious with him.
• 25:04
  [SPEAKER_08]: Alex Summers, have you completely lost your mind?
• 25:07
  [SPEAKER_08]: What an heavens-named name do you think you're doing?
• 25:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: But, I... I... He is following orders, Cyclops.
• 25:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: My orders.
• 25:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And... And who the?
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Ha!
• 25:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: You!
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're Eric Dred!
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_08]: But you can't be Eric Dred.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_08]: I was Eric Dred.
• 25:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyone remember psych's epic portrayal from X-Men volume one fifty one fifty two also the first appearances of Lorna Dane and Mesmero Eric the Red Stance revealed crimson bondage gear from head to toe horned helmet spike shoulder pads skin tight armor with some exposed abdomen and naked arms his eyes glow golden as he's backlit by flames
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: It matters not who I am mutant.
• 25:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I am power incarnate, and nothing that lives can stand against me.
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_08]: Mr. I don't know what this masquerade is all about, but if you think you can beat the X-Men, you've got another thing coming.
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_08]: Take him.
• 25:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, Cyclops, you will not take me.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: All you will do is die!
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: And the crimson's fall extends his hands knocking the X-Men back with a blast of power.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: Meanwhile, storm struggles to aid Marvel girl, who was hit by the magnetic blast moments before.
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_12]: The battle is going against us.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_12]: I must get Jean Grey out of harm's way and return to the X-Men quickly before there's no one left alive to help.
• 26:19
  [SPEAKER_12]: The gods be praised that neither havoc nor Lorna Dane can fly.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: But Storm has it wrong.
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_10]: Polaris has learned to fly.
• 26:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: She flies right at them, pink bubbles emitting from her hands, and orange concentric circles bending around her.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_15]: So the Evan, which thinks herself safe up in the sky?
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_15]: True.
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_15]: She may be safe from Lorna Dane, but not from Polaris.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_15]: You cannot escape me, Storm.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_15]: My magnetic powers can negate the gravimetric lines of force as easily for me as they did for Cracola.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: In other words, the lady can fly, and by the time storm realizes what's happened, it's too late far too late.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: Flarris is ready with a magnetic burst, shikow.
• 26:56
  [SPEAKER_12]: My mind groggy from the blast can't concentrate enough to get to gene, and the ground's so close to close, but I must get to her.
• 27:04
  [SPEAKER_12]: If I don't, she'll die.
• 27:05
  [SPEAKER_12]: I only have one chance.
• 27:07
  [SPEAKER_12]: I've got to make it.
• 27:07
  [SPEAKER_12]: Got to.
• 27:08
  [SPEAKER_12]: Made it, Jean should be safe enough here on this rooftop, which leaves me free to deal with Polaris and deal with her eyeshell.
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_12]: Only this time, she'll not be facing a rural.
• 27:18
  [SPEAKER_12]: This time, she faces storm.
• 27:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: Storm catches Jean in mid-air and then uses her powers to change her clothes into her own costume.
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: So it goes, one battle begins a new, another pauses for breath.
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: Let us go, Scott, please.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: The first something happens.
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: The whole regret.
• 27:34
  [SPEAKER_08]: No way, Alex.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_08]: Not till I get some answers.
• 27:37
  [SPEAKER_08]: Not till I find out why.
• 27:39
  [SPEAKER_08]: You turned on us, brother.
• 27:40
  [SPEAKER_08]: You tried to kill us.
• 27:41
  [SPEAKER_06]: Why?
• 27:42
  [SPEAKER_06]: Because I had to, it was Eric.
• 27:44
  [SPEAKER_06]: He, my mind, Scottie.
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: He did something to my mind.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_06]: Why did Alex?
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: Break free.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_10]: You can do it.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm trying, Scott, but I, I can't.
• 27:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: Have it, let's lose with a plasma burst.
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: And Cyclops knocks him back with an optic blast.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_06]: Rack.
• 27:57
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's no good.
• 27:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: Alex can't break free of Eric's control.
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_10]: Got to hit him hard.
• 28:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: Keep him off balance.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't want to hurt him, but if he could snooze at me, full strength, I've had it.
• 28:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: The problem cyclops is that Heather has no such qualms about hurting you.
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: My god that wall, it's falling right for me.
• 28:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: Heather's plasma bursts strikes a wall, flam, which caves in on the leader of the X-Men, burying him.
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_10]: And that is enough to shock Heather out of his mind control.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: God, I'm sorry.
• 28:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't mean to.
• 28:24
  [SPEAKER_06]: I didn't want to.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_06]: Dear Lord and Heaven, if I've killed him, thank God.
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: He's alive.
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_06]: Hold on, Scotty.
• 28:30
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll get you out of here.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: Just take it easy.
• 28:32
  [SPEAKER_06]: You're gonna be alright.
• 28:33
  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm all right now, little brother.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: I hate to do this, Alex.
• 28:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: But as the saying goes, it's free, we're all good.
• 28:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: Recovered, Cyclops knocks havoc out with a sock to the jaw.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: How?
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: One fight winds down, another shifts into high gear.
• 28:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: Nitroller is on the back of Eric the Red, trying to pull his helmet off.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mutant vermin, you cannot hope to defeat me.
• 28:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Perhaps not, but you'll forgive us if we try.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll try nothing else, not when you're smashed to a pulp against the steel body of your friend.
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: Eric Thread grabs an eye crawler and throws him straight at Colossus, and for a moment all seems lost, then in the instant before impact, there's a crack of flame, the gusting stench of brimstone, bamf, and the eye crawler is suddenly somewhere else.
• 29:15
  [SPEAKER_08]: Not a very my friend, I'm alright, which is more than I could say for our friend here.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_08]: Hit him high, Colossus, find Necrola hits him low.
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: Blossus hits Erik the Red in the jaw, knocking him backward while Necrola leaves the man's legs, but Erik the Red knocks them back with a burst of purple energy.
• 29:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Will you never learn changing?
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_09]: What about my blows, Hondwan?
• 29:35
  [SPEAKER_09]: Is Colossus nothing too?
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes!
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_10]: Colossus and Eric trade blows, Bakao Skak, and a plane is hit.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's wing destroyed with a fume, deja vu, a feeling that something like this has happened before.
• 29:48
  [SPEAKER_08]: Colossus, Peter, are you all right, Peter?
• 29:51
  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, that's holy Hondwan.
• 29:53
  [SPEAKER_08]: If you've killed him,
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_08]: glasses freeze himself from the wreckage with a potham and throws a wheel at his foe.
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_09]: Boom!
• 29:59
  [SPEAKER_09]: What are yourself?
• 30:00
  [SPEAKER_09]: My friend Kurt Colossus's father from deer.
• 30:02
  [SPEAKER_09]: Then when I die, he will take fire more than inexperienced kill me.
• 30:06
  [SPEAKER_09]: He's a villain.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_09]: Colossus has brought you a present.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: Kitch.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: But up above, it's the goddess of the elements versus the mistress of magnetism.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: Blasts of lightning meeting concentric green circles of magnetic energy images coming fast now, almost too fast.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: Eric the Red smashing through a pile of fuel drums lying broken and still as the sky above Kennedy Airport goes suddenly dark.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_10]: And two mutant Elementals come together in a death duel that all too soon becomes a stalemate.
• 30:33
  [SPEAKER_15]: We're two evenly match storm.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess we'll just have to call this game a draw.
• 30:37
  [SPEAKER_12]: A game?
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_12]: Is that all this is to you, Polaris?
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_12]: A game?
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_12]: You attacked us without warning.
• 30:43
  [SPEAKER_12]: Without provocation, you sought our deaths without a thought for the innocent who might be endangered, even slain by your attack.
• 30:51
  [SPEAKER_12]: And you dare call this a game?
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_12]: This is no game, Polaris.
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: The goddess glows with lightning.
• 30:57
  [SPEAKER_10]: The wind's rage around her blue eyes flow with energy.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: She extends a hand and Zrekam.
• 31:04
  [SPEAKER_10]: Polaris falls from the sky.
• 31:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: Having kids his brother with another plasma burst, then rushes to the side of the woman he loves.
• 31:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: She lies on the ground, smoldering.
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: There's fear and Alex summers, a fear and a need that claws deep into his heart and goes him to strike out against his brother and his friends.
• 31:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: Such a simple thing, really.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: He loves Lorna Dane and for that love, he would lie, cheat, steal, even kill.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: And in a few minutes, he might get a chance to do just that.
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: But now Wolverine and Ben, she are arriving in a small two-man ship.
• 31:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: reinforcements, Xavier must have summoned them with his cursed mental powers.
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Havic, Pilarus, to me, my children, quickly, the day has turned against us, and only a fool stands to fight against hopeless odds, and Eric the Red is anything but a fool.
• 31:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: The Tristan villain grabs Havic and Pilarus around the Weasts and flies them into the sky.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_20]: Havic!
• 32:01
  [SPEAKER_20]: Stop, stop or I'll fire!
• 32:03
  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean it, Alex.
• 32:04
  [SPEAKER_20]: I'll call you down if I have to.
• 32:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, do what Cyclops kill your own brother?
• 32:09
  [SPEAKER_20]: What are you doing, boss man?
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_20]: You got a clear shot at him.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_20]: Blast him man.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_20]: They're getting away.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: Blast him.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: But Cyclops doesn't fire.
• 32:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: And let's the blast go out.
• 32:19
  [SPEAKER_20]: That cuts it, Bob.
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_20]: Those clowns trying to stomp us and you just stand there and watch him fly away.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_20]: What's a matter of hot shot?
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_20]: You gutless or something over in.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: Shut up.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: Sit, come back Cyclops.
• 32:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: And Cyclops hits Wolverine right across the face.
• 32:35
  [SPEAKER_09]: Crack!
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_10]: Logan responds by unsheathing his claws.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_20]: Why you one-eyed son of a- I'm gonna cut you wide open for that.
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_12]: No.
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_12]: Huh?
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_12]: You will do nothing Wolverine.
• 32:46
  [SPEAKER_12]: Not now, not ever.
• 32:48
  [SPEAKER_12]: Or you will answer to me.
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_10]: Cyclops walks alone now, his mind torn by questions he can't answer, feelings he can't explain.
• 32:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: His brother tried to kill him today, and he knows deep down that when next they meet, there will be no holding back.
• 33:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: Brother will kill brother.
• 33:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: And the horror of that day will be that they'll kill without ever knowing the reason why.
• 33:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: That they won't be men at all, merely puppets dancing on a string.
• 33:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: because from far away Steven Lang views the X-Men on a screen from his secret Sentinel factory, but he too is being watched by Eric Dred.
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: Next issue, the Sentinel's return, enough said.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: That was amazing.
• 33:27
  [SPEAKER_10]: I want to open our discussion today with a little bit of a serious point for those of us who are queer or trans or for anyone who falls into diverse categories, the very bravery that it takes to walk out in public as yourself.
• 33:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: to be queer, to be out to be proud.
• 33:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: Just this morning before recording, I went to get a cup of coffee and I was behind a truck, no joke that had the license plate Trump won, with a giant bumper sticker that said, try that in a small town.
• 33:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: If you guys know that country song controversy, the idea of holding my husband's hand
• 34:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: in a rural town somewhere, and looks you get and the threats you expect to face.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: I know that this is a thing that every trans person especially deals with, but people of color and immigrants are dealing with this like never before, disabled people go through it as well.
• 34:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: This story by Claremont, featuring Wolverine and Knight Crawler, is indelibly famous, and a lot of fans maybe even know it and they haven't read it.
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a backup story from a random classic X-Men issue, but it's really fucking powerful.
• 34:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: I would love to hear first from Kevin and then Sean Rouhani about what it was like to have this kind of buddy friendship expanded in this way and welcome by the way to Sean who is an incredibly talented professional voice actor doing the best Wolverine I've ever heard and we've had some great Wolverines on this show and that was delicious by the way your voice worked
• 34:50
  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, so good.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_08]: I read this story when I originally came out.
• 34:55
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm old.
• 34:55
  [SPEAKER_08]: But I read it originally when it first came out.
• 34:57
  [SPEAKER_08]: And it stayed with me all of these years.
• 35:00
  [SPEAKER_08]: And I haven't actually read it in a long time.
• 35:02
  [SPEAKER_08]: And so experiencing it again, and especially with the way the world is now, as I think really impactful.
• 35:08
  [SPEAKER_08]: And your last point, Chad, you're saying, I've just been recently having some conversations with some people in a disability group about disability and myths and fables.
• 35:16
  [SPEAKER_08]: And it was really interesting because in the main story here, they, um, one of the insults thrown out at night crawlers calling me a changeling, which is obviously a very fairy tale type type thing of like you have the wrong baby and people would kill their babies thinking they'd been replaced by fairies and all this idea of like rejecting your child.
• 35:31
  [SPEAKER_08]: And so this idea of what night crawler had to grow up with, you know, and the bravery, especially when he feels like he's out on a limb was so real to me reading this one as a kid, but it still resonates so so much.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_08]: that I felt so honored to get to read this first off.
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm so proud that I got to do that.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_08]: And it was really, it's just, it was important.
• 35:51
  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's an important story.
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think it's really important because we know in these earlier stories, Necrologists didn't get a lot to do, not to the same degree that some of the other characters are getting.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_08]: And so this backup story really submends kind of this relationship that's going on with the other characters behind the scenes.
• 36:06
  [SPEAKER_21]: I just really value it.
• 36:07
  [SPEAKER_21]: On a much shallower note, I'm just so proud of myself for not going off the rails and improvising as Cal Dodd changing the entire script.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_21]: But yeah, this is obviously all the groups that you mentioned me being
• 36:21
  [SPEAKER_21]: person of color my parents immigrated from Iran and that's always been an ever changing experience especially growing up in the country where there's very limited exposure and of all the amazing exposure that could be pulled from you know our rich old history that it's usually just
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_21]: surface level horrible, depictions, radical, just bad publicity whenever my background's brought up.
• 36:45
  [SPEAKER_21]: So I've gone through different moments of trying to assimilate more, trying to learn more about the culture being proud of it.
• 36:51
  [SPEAKER_21]: It's ever changing.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_21]: I could definitely relate to this story.
• 36:54
  [SPEAKER_21]: And I think everybody could use a friend like Wolverine in this moment as long as they're not forcing you into a place of total discomfort.
• 37:03
  [SPEAKER_21]: It requires a deaf hand, I think, but everybody needs people in their corner.
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: I gave this a lot of thought, like, buddy, to go out there and do it, but Wolverine's also right behind him to protect him.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, be proud of yourself, and I fucking got your back at the same time.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_10]: This is, uh, these conservative politics that are kind of sweeping the world right now.
• 37:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: We have three countries represented in today's recording, Canada, the United States, and Scotland, and I know that there have been waves of, like, just yucky stuff happening in all of those places.
• 37:29
  [SPEAKER_10]: Robin, as a trans woman in Scotland, or in the UK, I know that there's been some really awful things.
• 37:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if you want to speak about this scene.
• 37:36
  [SPEAKER_18]: Right, yes.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_18]: So, yeah, um, today in Scotland, I was just at a market in Glasgow working with my husband.
• 37:44
  [SPEAKER_18]: He's like selling stuff and because of the recent laws in Scotland and the UK that have changed him, I had to make the judgment call of whether or not I could go to the bathroom in a public space seeing this story is really been some ways really inspiring but also kind of disheartening that this was a story that was written so long ago and is
• 38:05
  [SPEAKER_18]: Del relevant, arguably even more so than when I was younger.
• 38:09
  [SPEAKER_18]: It's very strange, but ultimately I think there's two aspects to the story that give me a lot of comfort.
• 38:15
  [SPEAKER_18]: There's the fact that, and throughout the whole experience, Nightcrawler has Wolverine, not just to support him, but push him when he doesn't have the courage to do it himself.
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_18]: It's often very challenging to put yourself into those situations, but to have someone who will say, I know you can handle this, and I will be there for you if anything bad happens.
• 38:34
  [SPEAKER_18]: so vital in these situations, but also the character that I bleed Harry Moral.
• 38:40
  [SPEAKER_18]: It's actually, I think, not everyone is like this, but a lot of people are nicer than I often will give them credit for an advanced.
• 38:48
  [SPEAKER_18]: Often is me that is more nervous going into the situation and most people are actually a lot nicer than I expect them to be when I'm out in about in the UK as a trans woman.
• 38:59
  [SPEAKER_18]: What I find is that people are uncomfortable with uncomfortableness.
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_18]: And if you are confident, they will often respond to you positively.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_18]: Not always.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_18]: Some people are just horrible.
• 39:09
  [SPEAKER_18]: But a lot of them will respond positively.
• 39:11
  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that the night crawler story really captures that.
• 39:14
  [SPEAKER_18]: So yeah, this heartening that it's still relevant, but also there's a bit of resonance.
• 39:19
  [SPEAKER_18]: So I think it's a really, really impactful story.
• 39:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: When you are a queer person or when you're a blue fuzzy mutant,
• 39:24
  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a thing where you're on the streets and when you're around people that aren't like you when everyone notices.
• 39:29
  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, if you're a person of color, if you're an immigrant and you're around people not like you everyone looks.
• 39:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's the thing.
• 39:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: And one of the subtle parts of this story is so brilliantly written is we've opened with Harry openly not reacting to Kurt at all.
• 39:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: Just like, oh, hey, buddy, high five kind of energy.
• 39:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: And then we have this kind of myriad of reactions on the street from envy to confusion to oh my god, I can't believe he's doing that and then you get those bullies and that's the part we're always so afraid of right.
• 39:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: But curtain ordering can fight back sometimes we don't want to have to fight back.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: So one of the reasons we make this show and create the safe space is just the recognition that something like walking down the street is so fucking challenging.
• 40:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: And I love that we get to hear a be here and just celebrate each other in this space.
• 40:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: So thank you all for being present together today.
• 40:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: I would love to comment a little bit on just the Kurt Logan friendship itself.
• 40:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: I love these two friendships.
• 40:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: I love the early X men and how each of them kind of relate to each other.
• 40:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: We slowly see that expanded as we go.
• 40:25
  [SPEAKER_10]: The way each of these pairings like relate to each other.
• 40:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: What are your thoughts on the Wolverine Night Crawler Big Dare kind of beer?
• 40:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's giving a little bit of Wolverine morph from the cartoon.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_10]: There's just a fondness there that's really, really wonderful.
• 40:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: Kevin, this was kind of your biggest script reading on the show thus far.
• 40:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: What was it like to play Kurt in this friendship?
• 40:45
  [SPEAKER_08]: I love it.
• 40:46
  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it's adorable.
• 40:48
  [SPEAKER_08]: I think there's something about Kurt that is such a, he's such a two worlds and him trying to kind of assimilate into what this new team dynamic is.
• 40:58
  [SPEAKER_08]: And coming from some trauma, but also some joy and finding that the sadness, I think, and Wolverine that there can be joy kind of draws him.
• 41:06
  [SPEAKER_08]: I think a little bit to what Wolverine's all about.
• 41:09
  [SPEAKER_08]: The idea that I think Kurt kind of takes on a little bit of the cheerleader of the team a little bit of times, you know, there's a little bit of that kind of mascot cheerleader energy that he brings to it.
• 41:20
  [SPEAKER_08]: But I think it's finding a family.
• 41:22
  [SPEAKER_08]: It's like, I think Kurt's always one of those characters that wants to find a place to kind of be.
• 41:27
  [SPEAKER_08]: And this extra story like this really kind of gives him that home that that you're not seeing as much in the regular team.
• 41:33
  [SPEAKER_08]: But there's also an experience pairing with Colossus in the regular like stories too.
• 41:37
  [SPEAKER_08]: So there's this nice like buddy thing going on.
• 41:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: It makes so much sense to me that Kurt's favorite far worse character is Tubaca and we also have the moment where the person's like is the Arnold Schwarzenegger which is so funny but I love I love these kind of real moments mixed in which is really fun.
• 41:51
  [SPEAKER_21]: It was fun to play with Kevin on that and just yeah, I just really like the dynamic it's
• 41:58
  [SPEAKER_21]: feels like a very real friendship, nothing forced, nothing.
• 42:02
  [SPEAKER_21]: Sometimes when it comes to marginalized people and they're used in any way for any stories, it's more like a PSA type of format instead of just coming from a real place and not having to single it out so much.
• 42:15
  [SPEAKER_21]: I felt like this felt a little bit more real than sometimes these types of stories are portrayed.
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's really beautiful.
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: And I know a lot of people are really fond of Harry's hide-away, which is fun.
• 42:23
  [SPEAKER_10]: I have a character episode on Harry's Hide-away out there with my dear friend Ruth Anne Price, which is out there to listen to if you would like.
• 42:31
  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, jumping over to the other script, we have a major continuity thing that happens here that's not really well explored for a little while, but this is technically the first appearance of Lillandra Naramani and the Shiar Empire.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: So I'm going to give the huge continuity dump for just a second, but some of this doesn't play out for years.
• 42:49
  [SPEAKER_10]: Back in the first appearance of Lorna Dane, she is mesmerized by a mesmero and taken to a city that's been built for mutants in the American Southwestern Desert.
• 42:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: They call her the mistress of magnetism or the daughter of magneto is kind of the thing.
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_10]: It turns out the magneto there was a robot.
• 43:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't worry about it.
• 43:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: But Cyclops in order to break into this city puts on this like red kinky suit.
• 43:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: And you never really know where he got the idea from.
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's never really been revealed since then.
• 43:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: So when Laura first sees Eric the red, she's like you, but that's impossible.
• 43:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: She must think that it Cyclops attacking her.
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: Here's a where we meet a character named Devon Shikari, who runs a cult called the Crystal Claws here on Earth.
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's a shiar agent that's been sent to the planet.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_10]: And one of the people he's raising in this cult is Adam X, the extreme.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a character that's connected to Cyclops and Havik, and their weird tragic backstory in some odd ways.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: LaLondra is often space doing the Princess Leia thing.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a huge space where there's explosions, and she is escaping in her little bug costume.
• 43:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: And Xavier is having crazy nightmares about a foreign empire.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_10]: So there's a little bit of a continuity dump.
• 43:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll get more into the CR as we move forward on the show after we get to the Phoenix.
• 43:57
  [SPEAKER_10]: So stay tuned in twenty twenty six for more of that stuff.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_10]: But just in a while, there you had some big moments of Xavier having his terrible nightmare.
• 44:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's so distressed he has to go on vacation.
• 44:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's off to go to Peter Corbos boat to go fishing.
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the vacation he's going on as you'll see next time.
• 44:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: What was it like playing Professor likes today?
• 44:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's so stressed out about that.
• 44:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: My guy I take a chill pill just relax.
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to control everything.
• 44:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: This this might be my favorite issue just because I got to do both a like exasperated ah from the beginning of the overwhelming dream and then also be really sassy to Jean.
• 44:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: That was just like whenever there's there's not a lot of lines where Xavier can just like ham it down They're like yeah, I'm in charge and I don't appreciate you telling me what's what but when I can both recognize it and prepare for it.
• 44:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, man.
• 44:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: I relish It was just it was fun because it was it was all the the bumps and bruises that is this annoying little band
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: Alicia playing the mothering gene with somebody in this issue.
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_13]: I like specifically since it just that I was like, you know, I don't have a lot to say this time around.
• 45:04
  [SPEAKER_13]: And when I do, Charles is such an asshole to me about it.
• 45:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Just planting the seed.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_13]: Just trying to make sure you're wearing sunscreen, man.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_13]: It's not that serious.
• 45:13
  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm not trying to take over at charge.
• 45:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, mom.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll put on the sunscreen and I'll watch out for big great white sharks.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you feel better now?
• 45:23
  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought this was what you were training me for, to be the mom of the group.
• 45:26
  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm so confused about what you want, sir.
• 45:29
  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, demand a martini back as Lorna Dane.
• 45:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: I have to get your opinion first on Lorna's sexy, lacy purple costume and second on the choice of the name Polaris and third on her love connection to Alex Summers.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_15]: So first of all, the Alex thing, as we know now, like, Grout, you can't fix him.
• 45:50
  [SPEAKER_15]: All you're doing is making him worse.
• 45:51
  [SPEAKER_15]: You should have stopped now while you were ahead.
• 45:53
  [SPEAKER_15]: Like, where we are from this literal interaction until where we are now with the current X-factor series.
• 46:00
  [SPEAKER_15]: Grout, you just made him worse.
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_15]: Please stop.
• 46:02
  [SPEAKER_15]: It's bad.
• 46:03
  [SPEAKER_15]: This is terrible.
• 46:04
  [SPEAKER_15]: Also, there's still like a teen maybe question mark like I know their grad students, but like, you know, what is time?
• 46:11
  [SPEAKER_15]: Because there's still technically younger than Scott and Jean, or at least Alex's.
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_15]: So anyway, so like it's still like kind of like first love nonsense.
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_15]: Like obviously she like kind of dated Bobby, but we all know what that means.
• 46:23
  [SPEAKER_15]: heard love for Alex I think is just like I think he he's sort of like her first her first boy who like accepted her because obviously she grew up in a house that did not accept her these people made her die her hair brown and never talk about any of her weird past stuff like
• 46:41
  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, that time she remembers kind of killing her parents in an airplane crash, but not really.
• 46:46
  [SPEAKER_15]: This girl has so many issues.
• 46:47
  [SPEAKER_15]: Second, the name Polaris, which shout out to my friend Kevin, who continues to say that it's Paul Polaris, and I'm like, listen, it's an accent, and we live in America.
• 47:00
  [SPEAKER_15]: Most people say Polaris.
• 47:01
  [SPEAKER_15]: Like, it's fine.
• 47:03
  [SPEAKER_15]: It's just tomato tomato, get over it.
• 47:06
  [SPEAKER_15]: I love it as a name for her.
• 47:08
  [SPEAKER_15]: I think it sort of like encapsulates her magnetic powers as well as like her bipolar energy.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_15]: So I love that name for her.
• 47:14
  [SPEAKER_15]: And this costume is one of my favorites for her.
• 47:17
  [SPEAKER_15]: I've done two costumes for Lorna.
• 47:20
  [SPEAKER_15]: I think this one might be my next one.
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_15]: I really like it.
• 47:23
  [SPEAKER_15]: I like the weird lace cutouts.
• 47:25
  [SPEAKER_15]: I like that high collar.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_15]: It's so stupid.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_15]: And also I love the fact that she never like chooses her own names.
• 47:33
  [SPEAKER_15]: Like shit, like she just like gets names handed to her and she's like, yeah, I guess that works.
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_15]: That's fine.
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_15]: Whatever.
• 47:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: How many times in drag have you looking the mirror and thought, I feel like a woman and that feels just fine.
• 47:44
  [SPEAKER_15]: Every time, every time.
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: And then we got Jay Cosmic back as Alex Summers, that little echo scene that's the added page from Classic Ex, but it cracks me the fuck up.
• 47:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: And his like tortured battle that he's going through.
• 47:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's like, Scott, I don't want to hurt you, but I'm going to blast you, but then when I'm back in control, I'm going to blast you anyway.
• 48:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: on Alex's journey in this.
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, rereading some of early Alex is a bit of a too easy to get through.
• 48:11
  [SPEAKER_06]: I will say that it is interesting seeing the contrast between the first story with Nightcrawler and Wolverine and then this one just because with Alex, you see him wanting to almost blend in, but then being aware he has the privilege to do so, like mentioning that he had a regular life that Cyclops do not have.
• 48:29
  [SPEAKER_06]: So it's kind of funny how Alex is identity like even in modern comics.
• 48:34
  [SPEAKER_06]: There's always been a struggle with his identity.
• 48:36
  [SPEAKER_06]: I e being a leader, amused, which in itself kind of relates to the queer experience, just because he always kind of wanted to fit that box of wanting to be normal.
• 48:45
  [SPEAKER_06]: What I'm quote, bidding boxes based on pre-conceived expectations.
• 48:49
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, it's a journey for this character.
• 48:51
  [SPEAKER_10]: We're also exasperated by him, which just cracks me up.
• 48:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's a really funny read.
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: And Seth, do you want to comment on God's relationship with Alex in this issue?
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: And also what it was like to see someone else in his bondage cosplay?
• 49:02
  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I think Scott was really jealous.
• 49:05
  [SPEAKER_08]: Somebody else's there.
• 49:06
  [SPEAKER_08]: The run.
• 49:07
  [SPEAKER_08]: Scott just takes any opportunity to be bossy, but I like that also the narrator still has to pick on psychos, no matter what every issue.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: What's psych luck?
• 49:15
  [SPEAKER_08]: Chill your own brother.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: And then we have Steve Duda as the indelible Eric the Red, although I was expecting the full cosplay today.
• 49:23
  [SPEAKER_10]: What was it like for you to play Daven Chikari my friend?
• 49:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Playing Eric the one was difficult because I didn't really know what to do for the voice.
• 49:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I settled on doing something that was equal parts, dopey and arch.
• 49:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Just felt right.
• 49:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: He seems like the kind of villain who would be extremely gay coded.
• 49:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Obviously is, but like vocally specifically.
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's really possible to take him seriously so you can't play.
• 49:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like too straightforwardly cool or you know, like a little too hard and hardcore.
• 49:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: You gotta be a little disappointing.
• 49:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a little bit like unsure.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's a weird character.
• 49:51
  [SPEAKER_10]: The mind control and like power blasts and like flight.
• 49:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a weirdly defined power set.
• 49:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's a very odd character to grasp.
• 50:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love that he picks up Alex and learn up by the way.
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So just like I'm taking these.
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: Bye.
• 50:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: Also, he's named himself after a Viking, which is something startling odd.
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's odd.
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: And then we go over to a Robin Muffet as Moira McTaggart, Moira and her connection to Charles.
• 50:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: There's like a fondness, but they had this terrible break up, and she like deer jaundim, but also there's all the Moira retcons, which we just can't get into today.
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I was like for you to play Moira and then over to Sean Beverage who I did not realize until halfway through our read today.
• 50:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't give you a single fucking line in the script.
• 50:36
  [SPEAKER_10]: And I, that was a major oversight.
• 50:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: I have you listed as Banshee, but Banshee doesn't talk and it didn't dawn on me to halfway through.
• 50:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: He was off like hanging with Moira in the background and I'm so indelibly sorry, but I'm thrilled you're here.
• 50:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: So let me hear from Robin and then Sean.
• 50:51
  [SPEAKER_18]: I just have to say I appreciate how much of a
• 50:53
  [SPEAKER_18]: bad bitch Moira is in this like she is just there she's like you know what this man is my ex-boyfriend I kind of hate him and I'm here to sass him every available opportunity and I love that for her and I have to remark on as I said last episode her Scottish accent is a mystery to me it's a Scottish woman it is bizarre it is insane it is Claire Monty and Scottish and it is its own separate thing it needs it's Wikipedia page but it is not like how anyone I have ever met in real life talk and I love it
• 51:21
  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm going to give my favorite band.
• 51:22
  [SPEAKER_07]: She quote of this issue right now.
• 51:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: This sounds like a dream.
• 51:31
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry, my friend.
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: I wouldn't give you a million lights.
• 51:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: I just I don't know what happened.
• 51:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry.
• 51:36
  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, you know what the best part of all is.
• 51:38
  [SPEAKER_07]: I got to hang out with my friends and just chill on a Sunday morning.
• 51:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: This is awesome.
• 51:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: One of the fun parts of these script readings, too, is the narrative shifts back and forth.
• 51:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: So in our next recording, Benchy, Wolverine, Gene and Colossus kind of take the forefront of what's going on for the next one.
• 51:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: So be prepared for that.
• 51:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: We have the big Sentinel battle.
• 51:57
  [SPEAKER_10]: Everyone also gets to do robot voices, which is really fun.
• 52:00
  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's go over to Haram.
• 52:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't often get to see Storm get really pissed.
• 52:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: Was she mad because Polaris was kind of casual about innocent life?
• 52:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: Or was she mad because Polaris called her an Ebbin Witch, which is really, it was for sure the Ebbin Witch thing.
• 52:18
  [SPEAKER_12]: Like, where does that mean you're vocabulary?
• 52:20
  [SPEAKER_15]: Girl, I'm so sorry.
• 52:21
  [SPEAKER_15]: I didn't mean it.
• 52:22
  [SPEAKER_15]: I promise.
• 52:23
  [SPEAKER_12]: It was the alien mine control.
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_12]: So the mine control put that in your head.
• 52:30
  [SPEAKER_12]: Like, where did they get this from?
• 52:31
  [SPEAKER_12]: This is kind of wild.
• 52:32
  [SPEAKER_12]: Didn't know aliens or races like that.
• 52:34
  [SPEAKER_12]: I didn't know anti blackness span both the globe and the universe.
• 52:37
  [SPEAKER_12]: That's kind of wild to me.
• 52:39
  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, it is the sheer empire.
• 52:41
  [SPEAKER_15]: They're really kind of racist to everyone.
• 52:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: Thor didn't get a lot to do, but she does get like a major kick-ass, like power moment, which is really fun now.
• 52:50
  [SPEAKER_12]: She had locked in for this and brought the entirety of her time when the panels, like she was like, let me get Jean to safety.
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_12]: Let me go ahead, take out this threat, and also let me tell Wolverine to back the fuck up.
• 53:02
  [SPEAKER_12]: This is Cyclops.
• 53:04
  [SPEAKER_12]: He's got to deal with this, which like it reminds me of these tweets from, I don't know if you guys know black nerd problems on Twitter, as well as those in the HTML.
• 53:14
  [SPEAKER_12]: There are always these jokes about how Cyclops and Storm are very much close, like very brother sister dynamic almost.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_12]: I believe there's even a thread somewhere about Cyclops having a black foster family and that being what connects them even more because he gets hurt.
• 53:31
  [SPEAKER_12]: On that level, she gets him on it, like on the same level, it's very interesting, but I do like that you could see a little bit of that instinct of leadership coming out of her in this issue, like very much we know what the hire is right here.
• 53:46
  [SPEAKER_12]: We know who would step into the place of being like, hey, I'm calm shots if need to be.
• 53:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: And last but not least, although he didn't get a lot to do this episode, it is July on Grey Malkin Lane, and it's Colossus Month.
• 53:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: We're celebrating Colossus all month every episode on the free time of the day.
• 54:03
  [SPEAKER_10]: It is my boss's celebration, ending with the trial of Piotr Rasputin later this month.
• 54:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: Welcome back to George Michael Duben as Piotr, who got thrown into a plane, and that's kind of all that he got to do.
• 54:14
  [SPEAKER_09]: I got to rip off some clones.
• 54:15
  [SPEAKER_09]: That's really.
• 54:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: No, my shirt.
• 54:18
  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, no, my shirt.
• 54:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: But he did get a cute moment where he's like, you know, hey, back on the farm.
• 54:23
  [SPEAKER_10]: They did not wear short skirts there.
• 54:25
  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, we did not have sluts in the Russia.
• 54:31
  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, we got a comment on Alex being like, poor Scott, I hope he's forgiven me for getting adopted when he wasn't.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_15]: Alex is not a good person.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_15]: Like, okay, if there is not a indicator, then that means that I am dead.
• 54:49
  [SPEAKER_15]: I really don't like havoc.
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, I'd still fucking because let's face it.
• 54:53
  [SPEAKER_15]: I've done it.
• 54:54
  [SPEAKER_15]: He's he's just not he's not nice.
• 54:57
  [SPEAKER_15]: He's not like a good person like no he when he tries harder he just makes it worse and I feel like this little moment of him being like gosh, I know I know Scott hates me because like I'm cuter I'm blunder like people wanted me I have this really hot girlfriend who doesn't faint all the time
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm hot, sexy, cool.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_12]: It's everything.
• 55:18
  [SPEAKER_12]: God favors me for real.
• 55:20
  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know what to say.
• 55:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know where he just blasts some rocks and he's like, oh, you want a great job for a geologist.
• 55:30
  [SPEAKER_12]: Those are my favorite rocks.
• 55:32
  [SPEAKER_12]: I want to talk about recent Clancy.
• 55:35
  [SPEAKER_12]: Amazing performances there.
• 55:38
  [SPEAKER_12]: Best characters in the issue honestly bring them back.
• 55:41
  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know how we can write them into another but let's just do it.
• 55:45
  [SPEAKER_12]: I was dying.
• 55:46
  [SPEAKER_13]: I wasn't expecting that Clancy voice to come out of Justin and when we are sharing a screen and he's doing stuff like that takes everything in me to just control the volume of my laughter.
• 55:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just fun to have Professor X as a distinct baseline to then like, okay, what weird shit can I do?
• 56:01
  [SPEAKER_13]: Who's not Professor X?
• 56:02
  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
• 56:03
  [SPEAKER_08]: This was the first time I think I really felt that storm leadership come through, like even though, you know, storm wasn't in it a lot, but that ending, especially where she's the adult in the family and separates the two.
• 56:13
  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't remember getting that impression to see her leadership that's gonna be coming in the future so clearly.
• 56:19
  [SPEAKER_08]: Like until this moment, it's like, it finally, you know, crystallized.
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm like, ah, she is the right person to lead them.
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_07]: I want to do a shout out on the artwork, honestly.
• 56:27
  [SPEAKER_07]: Like, Cochrane's deep space, cosmic stuff.
• 56:30
  [SPEAKER_07]: That was gorgeous.
• 56:32
  [SPEAKER_07]: All that needs is a gaping mall to bring it in.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_07]: But also, you know, the way the battle between storm players was drawn, the way the magnetic waves are.
• 56:41
  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's like, I'm pretty sure that's actually how they found out magnetic waves were, right?
• 56:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a perfect time to say everyone listening stay tuned to the latter half of this episode where I get the intense honor of interviewing Patty Cockrum who is the feisty hilarious wife of the Dave Cockrum.
• 56:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: So stay tuned for a Dave Cockrum tribute immediately after this episode.
• 57:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm so excited.
• 57:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: She's in her eighties and I love her so much.
• 57:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: We had a great time.
• 57:06
  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I just want to say something that is so silly, but it brought me so much joy that there were multiple Star Wars references in an X-Men issue that we were recording on May the Fourth.
• 57:16
  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, I was like, yeah, my nerd heart is always happy when I do these with you all, but the fact that like, it's Star Wars Day and we're talking about Star Wars next month is just... And it was Chef's kiss.
• 57:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: It was both the main issue and the backup story.
• 57:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Things that are separated by years happened to be collected in one issue and recorded on one day.
• 57:33
  [SPEAKER_13]: So good, so good.
• 57:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, with that, we will wrap up for today.
• 57:37
  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, stay tuned for the second half where we get to celebrate the incredible Patty Cockrobe and Dave Cockrobe's life, which I'm so excited about.
• 57:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: For those that are listening, you can follow my show, Graham, all can underscore land on Instagram.
• 57:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: Stay tuned for all Colossus content this month with I'm so excited about.
• 57:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: Including in our next episode a review of an overlooked Colossus mini series called Xman liberators with a writer Joe Harris and the incredible editor Jason LeBick.
• 58:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's gonna be a blast We're doing all Russian mutant characters over on the Patreon as well So Justin Wilder will be joining the over on that channel for the episode coming out after this along with my friend Ryan Katie for the really fun character or some major so everyone stay tuned for that
• 58:17
  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, so if you want to follow my drag account on Instagram, it is a proper underscore fist.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_18]: If you want to follow my personal account, it is Negasonic Tranny Warhead.
• 58:27
  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't use Instagram as much these days, so if you want to check me out on blue sky, it is a red-breasted Robin with a Y. Thank you.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_13]: Amazing.
• 58:35
  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, so if you want to follow my cosplay journey, you can follow me on Instagram and TikTok at Wilder Moops.
• 58:42
  [SPEAKER_13]: And if you want to follow our podcast, I'm one half of the x-wife podcast.
• 58:47
  [SPEAKER_13]: That's T-H-E-X-W-I-F-E as an X-Men, not former wife.
• 58:51
  [SPEAKER_13]: We're on Instagram and other places on the internet that are shall not be named.
• 58:55
  [SPEAKER_07]: find me on Instagram at cool beverage, uh, B-E-V-E-R-I-D-G-E.
• 59:01
  [SPEAKER_07]: It is my actual last name.
• 59:03
  [SPEAKER_07]: I got it from my dad who got it from his dad who traded a mule for that mule went on to save spring break.
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, uh, coming up, I've got the uncanny experience next weekend.
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess you can say holy shit.
• 59:17
  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's going to be a grand old time.
• 59:18
  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm Kevin Canary, you can find me on Instagram at K. A. K. I. And I are why although I'm not on there much anymore and I'm over a blue sky comic kev, but you'll be able to see me in person if you come to the uncanny experience, the best expert party there is.
• 59:32
  [SPEAKER_12]: So you can find me on Instagram at haremscaramcosplay.
• 59:36
  [SPEAKER_12]: If I ever revive my art account, you can also find me at haremscaramarts.
• 59:41
  [SPEAKER_12]: Sometimes I'll do art a lot of it seems to lean towards spider versus stuff, anything spider-burst.
• 59:47
  [SPEAKER_12]: I just really love spider-man.
• 59:49
  [SPEAKER_12]: Don't know if anybody knows how much I love spider-man.
• 59:51
  [SPEAKER_12]: You can also find
• 59:53
  [SPEAKER_12]: on blue sky at Haram Scam creates and maybe you'll see me at the uncanny experience next weekend.
• 1:00:00
  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm still trying to figure it out financially and then we'll see what happens.
• 1:00:04
  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm Mike Diven.
• 1:00:05
  [SPEAKER_09]: You can find me once a month sitting on a banana chair and Chad Anderson's living room watching problematic sci-fi classics such as Barbara Ella and Zardaz.
• 1:00:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: That's true.
• 1:00:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: Also, follow Doven at God Shave the Queen, their Barbershop, which is really fun.
• 1:00:21
  [SPEAKER_06]: I am Justin Cosmic.
• 1:00:22
  [SPEAKER_06]: I can be found at J. Under Score Cosmic on Instagram and TikTok.
• 1:00:26
  [SPEAKER_06]: Granted, I mostly on Instagram, posting cosplay, Toy Content, and the occasional third strap.
• 1:00:31
  [SPEAKER_06]: I am also on Blue Sky, J. Cosmic without the underscore.
• 1:00:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, I'm Steve Buda.
• 1:00:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: You could find me at Blue Sky at HowdyDude.
• 1:00:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: H-O-W-D-Y-D-U-D-A.
• 1:00:41
  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, I'm doing the retiming.
• 1:00:42
  [SPEAKER_15]: You guys can find me across most social media platforms at doing the retiming D-M-A-N-D-A-M-A-R-T-T-I-N-I.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_15]: You will see me at the Uncain experience next weekend.
• 1:00:52
  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure we're excited to be able to see most of your all beautiful faces while I'm there.
• 1:00:57
  [SPEAKER_15]: After that, an August will be able to find me at OdaCon here in DC and FlamCon in New York City.
• 1:01:04
  [SPEAKER_15]: I've got a bunch of nonsense going on with cosplay a bunch of new looks which I know this crowd will absolutely love so can't wait show them to you and also weekly again if I can get my shit together I'm still doing my baking show called to me my X treats that I found out that Julia Lee Wolves watches weekly which is insane find me on the socials would love to see you all there
• 1:01:25
  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, same, you could find me on most of the socials other than TikTok, basically, as just Sean Rouhani, SEA and ROHA and I. Yeah, I'm not the best with social, but I'm always happy to connect and interact.
• 1:01:38
  [SPEAKER_21]: So yeah, it's been a blast getting to meet a bunch of you and I'm immediately going to look up to meet my ex treats once we're done with this.
• 1:01:46
  [SPEAKER_21]: And the Sean, do you want to plug some of your recent work?
• 1:01:48
  [SPEAKER_21]: Your name is out there right now, my friend.
• 1:01:50
  [SPEAKER_21]: I'm very bad with names.
• 1:01:51
  [SPEAKER_21]: So I'll try to remember, I mean, one of the fun ones that I'm allowed to talk about recently is I was Prisma on the Adventure Time Fiona and Kate been off on Max.
• 1:02:00
  [SPEAKER_21]: I was in the Jurassic World Chaos Theory as a shady dinosaur dealer named Rio, a bunch of other fun stuff.
• 1:02:08
  [SPEAKER_21]: Usually shady people for some reason.
• 1:02:10
  [SPEAKER_21]: Find me on Instagram at SC Martell.
• 1:02:14
  [SPEAKER_08]: and they are T.L.
• 1:02:15
  [SPEAKER_08]: and I'm also a loose guy just don't post enough on there.
• 1:02:17
  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can come see a lot of X-Men aren't if you follow me.
• 1:02:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, did you have one of the last time I mentioned the uncanny experience because I'll be there, you know, look, look, look, you can talk to me because I'm there.
• 1:02:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I like talking to people in person and, you know, online sometimes too at the X-Wave podcast, T.H.E.
• 1:02:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: X-WI at the, you know, at least you did the thing.
• 1:02:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm just here to reiterate that and not promote my personal social media because I'm mysterious like that.
• 1:02:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: You can also see me at the uncanny experience.
• 1:02:41
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll be teaching a class on the Savage Land, which I'm super excited about.
• 1:02:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: And we're doing our super fun fashion review again.
• 1:02:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: So everybody, I look forward to hanging out with you all.
• 1:02:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: I can't wait.
• 1:02:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: I've been looking forward to it all year.
• 1:02:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, everybody.
• 1:02:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: Stay tuned for the interview with Patty Cochrome.
• 1:02:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: Watch for a lot of this group back in a couple of months when we do X-Men, Ninety-eight when the sentibles are back.
• 1:03:00
  [SPEAKER_10]: And we will see you all back next time on the Graham Alkin Lane show.
• 1:03:04
  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey everybody, thank you for sticking around for the second half of the Grimalkin Lane podcast.
• 1:03:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm so excited to welcome the incredible Patee Cochrane to the show.
• 1:03:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: We are here to honor Patee's incredible career as the comics alumni herself, as well as Patee's connection to, of course.
• 1:03:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: A wonderfully talented husband, Dave Cochrane.
• 1:03:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: Patee, welcome to the show.
• 1:03:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you?
• 1:03:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm fine.
• 1:03:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: How are you?
• 1:03:24
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm doing so good.
• 1:03:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: If we could just begin with an introduction, do you want to tell everybody a little bit about yourself?
• 1:03:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'd love it if you'd start with kind of your origin story at Marvel itself.
• 1:03:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was originally married to a guy up in upstate New York.
• 1:03:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I picked up a Marvel comic that had my favorite character from when I was a child, which was Submariner.
• 1:03:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: as whoa, some mirror there.
• 1:03:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I haven't seen this in a while.
• 1:03:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: That got me back into reading comic books and Marvel.
• 1:03:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's see.
• 1:03:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: What else are they pointing out?
• 1:03:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Spider-Man?
• 1:03:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay Avengers.
• 1:03:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and I fell in love with the vision.
• 1:04:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And of course, I'm the Scarlet Witch.
• 1:04:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was Marvel Resident Witch.
• 1:04:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm the Scarlet Witch.
• 1:04:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Started sending basically fail others like anyone else, you know, back then before computers.
• 1:04:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: got to know the people at Marvel and one day I showed up on their doorstep with a box of Dunkin Donuts under each arm.
• 1:04:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know that creative people are always hungry.
• 1:04:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ever after, whenever I came down to visit, I'd walk in the door and Mary McFaren, who was the secretary sat right by the door, would say, pay these air, so he would stick his head out from the photo room and say, did she bring donuts?
• 1:04:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: a position came available in the art department in the bullpen for paste up and things like that.
• 1:04:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they said, do you want to try this?
• 1:04:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, you better now I lived in an upstate New York.
• 1:04:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It would take me three hours door to door to get to Marvel and three hours back in the evening.
• 1:04:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, goodness, that's a long commute.
• 1:05:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Then used to brag on it.
• 1:05:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: One day he came down the hallway with a bunch of soup, you know, executive types, the whole nine yards.
• 1:05:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm walking down the hallway with a whole batch of pages and things like that going back to the tutorial.
• 1:05:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: They came around the corner in the hallway and then said, she's the one and I stopped dead in my tracks.
• 1:05:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, they all gathered around me, you know, looked at me and I'm like,
• 1:05:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now I want you know and they one guy stuff up instead commute six hours a day to work here I was covered with snowpake and then can I was obviously a payoff you know and I said yeah and to a man all six of them said why?
• 1:05:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I looked at him and I looked at them and I said, well, if you have to ask that kind of a question, you'll probably never understand.
• 1:05:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you see that door back there and they will, yeah, you know, I said, that's a bullpen.
• 1:05:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: magic!
• 1:05:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bye now!
• 1:06:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Gotta go!
• 1:06:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Work to do magic to make!
• 1:06:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye!
• 1:06:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I walked around them, looked back and Stan is leading six wide-eyed with wonder suits into all bullpen.
• 1:06:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how we started!
• 1:06:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: That's phenomenal.
• 1:06:16
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, walk everybody a little through your comics career.
• 1:06:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: I know you did a lot of different kinds of jobs during your time and marble.
• 1:06:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, well, I started out working in the bullpen itself, which was a production department.
• 1:06:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It did paste up.
• 1:06:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You did our corrections.
• 1:06:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's our thing.
• 1:06:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was
• 1:06:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: spectacularly trained to working comics.
• 1:06:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not necessarily intentionally.
• 1:06:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got a degree from Townsend State by now, Townsend State University in Maryland, where I grew up in kindergarten through twelve art, which since my first husband I lived in Illinois and Ohio at one point, there was reciprocal there.
• 1:06:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: When we moved back to his area in New York and upstate New York in the Catskills,
• 1:07:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got my New York license to teach art.
• 1:07:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: My minor was English compositional literature, which I was licensed in Maryland, and I got I would have reciprocal licensing in Illinois in Ohio, which I never bothered.
• 1:07:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But in New York, I never bothered to get my license to teach English compositional literature because in New York, no one speaks English, and they don't want learning either.
• 1:07:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So
• 1:07:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I got back into comics because I love comics as a kid and then I got away from them for about ten years during the early Marvel stuff with Stan and them and when I founded again, I devoured everything especially the Avengers I know Roy Thomas writing the Avengers
• 1:07:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: absolutely wonderful.
• 1:07:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: He won one really wretched story and I wrote the the the fan letter I sent to him.
• 1:07:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wrote on a role of toilet paper and I unrolled it and I started writing and I wrote all the way back as I rolled it back up and then I mailed in the role of toilet papers and started out with story was fit to be flush not not worth the paper was right non you know just toilet paper and I had written a whole role of toilet paper
• 1:08:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Later on when I met Roy, I said, did you read the whole toilet paper leather?
• 1:08:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, everywhere.
• 1:08:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because that was a first time that someone actually sent me a roll of toilet paper who was writing on it.
• 1:08:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: and being an arts and crafts person.
• 1:08:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I hooked a rug.
• 1:08:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was about forty feet diameter.
• 1:08:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a big circle and it was the spider insignia.
• 1:08:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I took it down to roll it up in brown paper and
• 1:08:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: and put on it to stand from Marvel the assemble.
• 1:08:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I made the mistake of drawing all over it because if you get a leather, a postal leather for me, it'll have drawing on it.
• 1:08:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I always do.
• 1:08:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes on the envelopes.
• 1:08:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, Marvel was aware that I was an artist.
• 1:08:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: When the I stay wasn't there at the time, so I left it on Josie's desk said put this on Stan's desk and left and so Mary McFerran told me later.
• 1:09:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: She said pay the thing came she said I put on Stan's desk and he came in and said what's that big role you know because I had driven my car down with the with to the to New York and parked in the you know facilities down there and walked several blocks for with with this thing under my arm they also at
• 1:09:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Severan came in as a seven.
• 1:09:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know anything?
• 1:09:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, but what's this?
• 1:09:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Ramita came in.
• 1:09:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm looking, they opened it up.
• 1:09:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And here's this spider insignia.
• 1:09:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was all, oh, it must have been two or three inch six shy grog that was a spider insignia.
• 1:09:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Stan, whoa, you know, well, where, who, who did this?
• 1:09:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it says to stand from Sam, despite, you know, phantom assembled either Severan or Ramita or both of them looked at and said, wait a minute, we know this art.
• 1:09:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's pity.
• 1:09:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he had Mary McFarron call me and she got me on the phone.
• 1:10:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: She says, hey, Dee, did you send Stan a rug?
• 1:10:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, it's not a rug.
• 1:10:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a cover for the biggest sickers of AS, toilet bowl cover for the biggest executive AS.
• 1:10:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she got it gigantly.
• 1:10:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she says, I'm supposed to tell him that.
• 1:10:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're forward.
• 1:10:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so she, I heard her, Stan, Katie says, it's not a rug.
• 1:10:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a toilet bowl cover for the big executive AS.
• 1:10:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I heard,
• 1:10:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've got a made desk girl.
• 1:10:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: I've had the esteemed honor of interviewing some of your contemporaries from, you know, Annie Nesente to Roy Thomas to Linda Fight.
• 1:10:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: You had such a strong presence, your sense of humor and your sense of adventure are clearly a delight.
• 1:10:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: I had the pleasure recently of reading about your first meeting with Dave, your future husband.
• 1:10:49
  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you want to tell everybody that story?
• 1:10:51
  [SPEAKER_10]: Have the two of you first became acquainted?
• 1:10:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's funny.
• 1:10:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was, uh, I had been aware of Dave's art from, uh, fanzines that both he and I contributed to, one of them was Amrock, which was a, uh, Conan base fanzine.
• 1:11:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm, uh, first time I saw his art, I said, oh boy, this guy's good.
• 1:11:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's going to go places.
• 1:11:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I was right.
• 1:11:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would have been working at Marvel for probably a year or so.
• 1:11:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Marvel had the bullpen at that time had these handfuls that you would but you're drawing board up against and I had my drawing board right there and on the other side of the handful just inside the door doorway that came in from the editorial area.
• 1:11:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was the Xerox machine.
• 1:11:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, when the artists would bring in pencils, they would zerox their pencils up full size zerox of each page.
• 1:11:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they know what they'd done further.
• 1:11:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they turn in what five pages or ten pages of a twenty one page story and get paid to it, you know, later that week.
• 1:11:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he was standing there zeroxing pages because he was doing the experiment, which was brand new at the time.
• 1:11:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: This was in seventy five, I guess, seventy six somewhere in there.
• 1:12:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm the one stuff sitting at my drawing board and I looked up my son and and Duffy Nolan was another of the Marvel people and I said, Duffy, who's that?
• 1:12:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, Oh, that's Dave Kaufram.
• 1:12:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's doing the X-Men book, you know, the new X-Men book and I said,
• 1:12:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I got up.
• 1:12:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I walked all the way down toward JJ, JJ reporting.
• 1:12:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was our production manager at the time, toward JJ's place, and came around the edge of the half wall, and walked up and looked him up and down, walked past him, and as I went by, I planted his sushi, and I said, nice ass, and went through the door and then down the wall.
• 1:12:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: I was so forward.
• 1:12:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's going on here?
• 1:12:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing go and told me about this later.
• 1:12:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: He said they've looked up and went, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, nothing nearly fell off his chair laughing.
• 1:12:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, oh, that's just pity.
• 1:12:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry.
• 1:12:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's harmless.
• 1:12:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Later on, that was our first meeting.
• 1:12:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Later on, he was in the John David Warner's office.
• 1:13:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, John David Warner was the Ezra and Chief of the Black and White books, which we just started.
• 1:13:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was sitting in there, and he had done some illustrations for foam.
• 1:13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Avengers' very issue of foam.
• 1:13:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I poke my head in, because I had been part of pasting that up for the, you know, to be sent to the printer.
• 1:13:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were two illustrations that I wanted, and I knew that they didn't come back to them, or I thought that had, but that time.
• 1:13:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I put my head in and I said, they caught them, right?
• 1:13:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, yeah, I said, did you get your art back from the phone?
• 1:13:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: a book and he said, yeah, I did.
• 1:13:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, I want two of those illustrations.
• 1:13:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are you willing to sell him?
• 1:13:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, uh, uh, yeah.
• 1:13:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, okay, I want the one with the scar at which and the one with the vision.
• 1:13:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I say, how much?
• 1:13:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, uh, ten dollars each.
• 1:13:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, you got it.
• 1:13:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: What the hell?
• 1:13:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's sitting there like who was the world when that came through, you know?
• 1:13:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure John David Warren would told him.
• 1:14:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I came back, I had my dollar and I said, here, next time you come in, I want to have a twenty dollar bill.
• 1:14:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he was like, okay.
• 1:14:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I still have them.
• 1:14:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now YouTube YouTube became pretty fast friends and even kind of whirlwind romance at that point.
• 1:14:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: You had both been married, both had children already.
• 1:14:18
  [SPEAKER_10]: And I also read the story about the first time you visited Dave's apartment, how he was a little reluctant to have you over.
• 1:14:25
  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you want to tell our listeners about that?
• 1:14:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, when we started dating, uh, it was after, uh, lens of, or Mars.
• 1:14:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was Mars, Mars Halloween party.
• 1:14:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I went to school at Wetch and he went as thorough.
• 1:14:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I helped to make his costume although he didn't know I was going to do that.
• 1:14:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: He came into the, um, into the, the office one day and I said, you go into, uh, the party and he goes, yeah, that says, who are you going to ask?
• 1:14:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because I knew who I was going to ask.
• 1:14:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Andy answers when at the most marvelous,
• 1:14:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Scarecrow of Romney Marsh.
• 1:14:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, it was so good.
• 1:14:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he says, well, I want to go his Zoro.
• 1:15:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's one of my favorite nice as mine, too.
• 1:15:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, it turned out we had both had the same Zoro paperback book when we matched our collections and we found out we have two of the same book that was bought in the fifties, you know, he says, well, I've got a black I got
• 1:15:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: black boots I got a black jeans and I have a sweater that has a that's black and he took had a cowboy hat that he had had a felt kids cowboy hat that he had ironed the the the brim down to make the Spanish brim you know but he didn't have a a cape and I said okay I said I have a black cape it has a red interior he says oh wow I said he says can I borrow it I says yeah you can borrow it if it if you take care of it and I get back
• 1:15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the next day I brought it and I said to myself said I a black weather.
• 1:15:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that day I went home and I got a pattern which I had to I had to adjust and I made him a Zoro shirt a black I got some black material and some rim material and I made him a black blousey sleeve shirt.
• 1:16:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yes, or it's up.
• 1:16:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.
• 1:16:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I made him a red cumber bun because the the painting on the book had a red cumber bun and I made him a black regular zoro mask, not the just a domino mask that he said I have a black mask, you know, everyone can get one of them and I thought.
• 1:16:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Pozzoro was my one of my heroes.
• 1:16:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he was gonna be dressed right.
• 1:16:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he came in to get the tape and first thing I did was hand him up the shirt.
• 1:16:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said try that on.
• 1:16:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: He tried it on it actually fit him.
• 1:16:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had I could only get a size medium pattern, but I adjusted it because he was a large actually large.
• 1:16:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then he put that on and I said try this on.
• 1:16:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I gave him the the cumber bun.
• 1:16:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: He tried that on all fit.
• 1:16:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said here.
• 1:16:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's your mask.
• 1:16:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: He put the mask on.
• 1:16:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I made him put on the cape and he was like, all right, you know.
• 1:16:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we went to the same party.
• 1:17:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: He ended up taking me home.
• 1:17:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: We started dating.
• 1:17:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: Talk about him having you over for the first time.
• 1:17:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: The story about his lesards made me smile.
• 1:17:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what happened was we kept dating and dating back and forth and he would not allow me to come to his place.
• 1:17:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And finally, I got to one point and someone asked me, well, you're with Dave, you can give him this stuff because I ended up being Western Union back and forth and saving Marvel a lot of money on sending things by carrier.
• 1:17:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you can tell it gives us the day, you know, and I knew he wasn't coming into the city because I lived in the city.
• 1:17:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I had to go to his place.
• 1:17:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, fine, no problem.
• 1:17:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I kept asking him, why can't I come to your place?
• 1:17:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why can't I see where you live?
• 1:17:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and finally, I got him on the phone and I said, look, I have to bring this stuff to you.
• 1:17:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Either I come to your place and I know you're not coming in here.
• 1:17:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've got to come out to your place.
• 1:17:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: and he was like, oh, I said, okay, that's it.
• 1:17:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, one of you got there.
• 1:17:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I did bodies or a wife with seventeen idiot children or something.
• 1:18:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why can't I come to your place?
• 1:18:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, well, I have, I said, come on, come on, come on.
• 1:18:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says, lizards.
• 1:18:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, oh, what kind?
• 1:18:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you could almost see the like the one over his head.
• 1:18:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: You like lizards?
• 1:18:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, yeah, I really do.
• 1:18:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a snake?
• 1:18:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: He goes, no, my wife wouldn't let me keep snakes.
• 1:18:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, neither would my husband.
• 1:18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
• 1:18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: What kind of lizards do you've gotten?
• 1:18:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says, well, this one is he scares people because he's a monitor and he's disgusting.
• 1:18:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they eat carrion.
• 1:18:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll throw a pork chop into him and he'll tear it to pieces smeared all over the glass and let it rot for a day before he eats.
• 1:18:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, woo, cool.
• 1:18:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says, his name is Rosalgoo.
• 1:18:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ros was amazing.
• 1:18:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I says, I want to see this lizard.
• 1:18:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: He goes, okay, well, this is where they're.
• 1:18:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I went out to his place and he met the door and he says, are you sure about this?
• 1:18:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, you back to, I want to see this lizard, you know, and he came in and there was Rosalgoo and he was huge and he was mean.
• 1:19:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, monitor lizards do.
• 1:19:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: You don't, you don't deal with them unless you put on layers of clothing and leather gloves because if you get scratched, it can fester and you can die.
• 1:19:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, you know, pet monitor lizards is not a good idea, but Rosalgo was wonderful.
• 1:19:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at which point we went on to decide that why should we be paying two rents when we were so obviously good with each other?
• 1:19:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we were interested in the same thing.
• 1:19:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing that happened when I got out living with him was I brought him a snake and I mean he was with me when I picked up a little boa constrictor.
• 1:19:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a mill the winner.
• 1:19:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I we put it up a bag a little boss bag and since we were going out into a really cold weather I tucked it down between my boobs where it would be
• 1:19:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're standing there in the bus taking the bus to his area in Queens and a friend of ours was sitting there and we still was standing in front of her and she at one point she looks up and she says, Hey, the your your blouse is moving and I says, Oh, yeah, that's that's that's Nikki.
• 1:20:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's my new snake all of a sudden the bus wasn't crowded around us as people and she was like Oh, I says, Oh, he's not going anywhere.
• 1:20:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's in his bag.
• 1:20:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm just keeping him warm.
• 1:20:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now Dave Cochrome, of course, is the legendary comic book creator, David Emmett Cochrome, born in nineteen forty three, lived till two thousand six, maybe best known for, of course, his incredible work on the X-Men.
• 1:20:36
  [SPEAKER_10]: But in my opinion, Dave is one of the most, I don't know, idyllic and credible superhero costume designers of all time.
• 1:20:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: He is at a level of talent of like George Perez and Jack Kirby and Salby Shema.
• 1:20:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: Everybody looks original and incredible.
• 1:20:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: I know he did a lot of characters.
• 1:20:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: Dave was a veteran who spent a lot of time overseas where he would draw and draw and draw and draw.
• 1:21:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: And I know a lot of his ideas for art ended up making it into the comics later in various forms.
• 1:21:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: He has a legendary run on Legion of Superheroes, as well as a lot of others.
• 1:21:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: But he was the premier artist on Giant Size Xman forward through the mid-nineteen seventies as this book kind of shot into Superstardom.
• 1:21:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, I know we're going to be talking a lot about his original characters as we go through the show.
• 1:21:27
  [SPEAKER_10]: We're discussing a lot about his very favorite character, Knight Crawler, as well as characters like Storm and Colossus, et cetera, et cetera.
• 1:21:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: The star gemers, there's so many incredible ones to talk about in the Imperial Guard alone.
• 1:21:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: Did Dave have a good working relationship with Chris Claremont?
• 1:21:43
  [SPEAKER_10]: And do you really think he realized what a big deal the X-Men was at the time when he was working on the book?
• 1:21:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: He did not realize his talent.
• 1:21:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: He died thinking he was a failure.
• 1:21:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: He and Claremont were great together.
• 1:21:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Claremont would, they would call each other at two or three in the morning to discuss if David's drawing and he thought a better way of doing something than what
• 1:22:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Claremont had given him in the synopsis.
• 1:22:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: He called Claremont at two in the morning and said, look, we got to talk about this and they would discuss it and either, you know, either David would sell him on what he wanted to do.
• 1:22:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Claremont was very, very good with David because if David gave him a suggestion, he knew it was called aside from the fact that David was a monumental
• 1:22:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: designer of costumes Dave was a storyteller in his own right so Claremont when he started it was sort of a new guy and I think Dave actually helped him to develop his talent because there were times when Dave would would call him and say okay you want this to happen but this is a better way of making it happen
• 1:22:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: and more visual, and Claremont will go, you got it, you bet, do it, you know.
• 1:22:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Claremont will occasionally call us at two or three in the morning, one day, and this still startles Claremont to this day.
• 1:23:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: He called about two in the morning, and David and I were just only engaged in other things.
• 1:23:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Dave Evans grabbed the phone and answered it and he says it's Claremont and I grabbed the phone away from him and I said Chris not now he was like oh my god and I'm up so I came a fun thing if the phone rang at odd hours Dave was saying phone was ringing I'd pick it up if it was Claremont I go Claremont not now and he'd go oh my god what are you writing and hang out and we did it every time
• 1:23:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was one time Chris was in the, in my office and he and Dave were sitting there talking about when Dave, it was when Dave was came back for the second run and they were sitting there and at one point Dave looked up and I'm working and they're talking and Dave looked up and he says, I wonder what blue skin feels like and I turned around in my chair and looked at him and I said, it feels like fine velvet or the soft under fur of a beaver.
• 1:24:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: How's it that?
• 1:24:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's why you see so much shadow on his face or on his body.
• 1:24:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Dave says, I like it.
• 1:24:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we both looked at Claremont and Claremont says, I like it too.
• 1:24:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Nikola became the fuzzy elf.
• 1:24:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: And he has gone on to become kind of a sex syllable in the comics, which is a lot of fun.
• 1:24:31
  [SPEAKER_10]: Were there ever any moments in comics that Dave put in is kind of a tribute to you or to Ivan that we're kind of a secret week.
• 1:24:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey Drew, uh, uh, me and him and true.
• 1:24:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're in in several of the, uh, story.
• 1:24:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
• 1:24:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: And, and for reference, everyone, I, Dave was roommates with Jim Shooter for a long time and they remain pretty close personal friends.
• 1:24:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: I understand.
• 1:24:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, I chased you throughout after a while.
• 1:24:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got bad stories about you.
• 1:24:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I hesitate to tell people some of these, but they're true.
• 1:25:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Shooter and I go off a real bad tangent when they were looking for a new veteran tree.
• 1:25:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: The logical choice.
• 1:25:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: was John David Warren, or who was a good friend, and who was the other and chief of the black and white book, Excellent Editor and Chief, all of a sudden Jim Schuener's Editor and Chief.
• 1:25:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now Schuener had no qualifications as Editor and Chief.
• 1:25:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: He had written some stories for DC, he may be written a couple of stories at Marvel, and I looked at David's head, what the hell?
• 1:25:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: What happened here?
• 1:25:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: didn't find out until decades later that what happens was that according to the people who were there at the time, uh, shooter went upstairs and the, uh, magazine management, who owned Marvel at the time, were cheap as hell.
• 1:25:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were.
• 1:25:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was a given.
• 1:25:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don David Warner, who was the enter of the, uh, should have gotten a job.
• 1:25:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: New it was an important job and wanted to be paid like it was an important job and apparently sure when nothing said gave him a quote as about half of what John David Warner wanted to do the job.
• 1:26:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says, I'll do the job for the next five years at that's how he got it.
• 1:26:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I said, okay, I'll give him a year to see if he goes into the job he never did.
• 1:26:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
• 1:26:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
• 1:26:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: I know that that was a very controversial time in comics, even all these years later, people still talk about how tense that was and how it kind of chasing a lot of the old guard out.
• 1:26:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: And that was of course the beginning of a lot of tempestuous times, you know, including the Marvel Bankruptcy and the change to digital.
• 1:26:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that's one of the reasons why a lot of the professional old people at Marvel went away because shooter was trying to replace everybody with people that were below you to him as the old crowd was loyal to Stan.
• 1:26:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Stan was the magic man.
• 1:26:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: When Stan went west, everything went to hell with itself.
• 1:26:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she took over everything went that started sliding downhill.
• 1:26:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Marvel lived on its reputation for a long while into the Bob Harris years that it was Bob Harris.
• 1:26:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was the one that really killed him.
• 1:27:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was a Bob Harris that that Marvel Miller went bankrupt and of the Iran and and Pearl mother built it up and put it back together again.
• 1:27:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously sold his shares to Pearl mother and Pearl mother eventually sold it to Disney.
• 1:27:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Disney hasn't now.
• 1:27:18
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, I know Dave struggled with diabetes and health issues, especially in the latter part of his life.
• 1:27:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: The comics industry was going through so many changes.
• 1:27:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: This kind of MTV generation into the advent of the internet.
• 1:27:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: And I know he didn't get any dividends for the movies, et cetera, which is awful because he created these incredible characters.
• 1:27:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: But I know he remained in enormous fan of the characters and kind of the industry itself.
• 1:27:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's hard to keep that magic alive when you know how the sausage is made by the behind the curtains sometimes.
• 1:27:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: But it is very sad to hear that he didn't quite know how much he meant to fans because he's just a phenomenal talent, my word.
• 1:27:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, yeah, he was one of the best.
• 1:28:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now he like Neil Adams were slow.
• 1:28:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was only one time he was really fast.
• 1:28:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: They started wanted to do a sort of a rip off a black hoax because DC had started to reprint black hoax and Dave was a huge black hoax fan.
• 1:28:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So in fact, Dave was originally he was a DC boy.
• 1:28:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: him going up to Marvel's a whole other story, but they came up with a two-issue tryout called Skywall.
• 1:28:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: They did those two issues into we he was that into it.
• 1:28:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: He could not put the pencil down.
• 1:28:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean usually it would take him a whole month to do an issue of whatever book he was on.
• 1:28:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But he did two issues, four last years of Skywall in two weeks.
• 1:28:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, see, you can draw fast.
• 1:28:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's hard when your perfection is though.
• 1:28:49
  [SPEAKER_10]: That's tricky for a lot of people out of artist's opinion.
• 1:28:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were times when he would draw the better part of a page.
• 1:28:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: One panel would not work for him and they all had to work.
• 1:29:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he did it had to do them in the orbit.
• 1:29:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I saw him tear up a whole page of drawing because one panel would work and start over and redraw the whole page.
• 1:29:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this time he drew the panel so it worked.
• 1:29:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, just talking about some of his most famous or classic designs.
• 1:29:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: And again, this is kind of an X-Men show.
• 1:29:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: So I'll lean the show in that direction a little bit.
• 1:29:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: Any memories you have of Dave designing storm?
• 1:29:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: That happened before we met.
• 1:29:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: I know he had a design for a particular character called the Black Cat.
• 1:29:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: Not the same as the Spider-Man character.
• 1:29:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think he ended up using a lot of those.
• 1:29:36
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:36
  [SPEAKER_10]: He ended up using some of those earlier designs kind of the cat-like eyes and appearance for storms design.
• 1:29:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I figured out something later on.
• 1:29:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: He always said that he gave storm his cat-tribos face.
• 1:29:50
  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't.
• 1:29:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I found that later on and I don't think David even was aware of it.
• 1:29:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: He did a wonderful wonderful pencil portrait of Aurora in Star Trek.
• 1:30:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he had, he chased around for twenty years trying to get her autograph on that drawing.
• 1:30:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was in his in one of his big books of sketches and things and it's a beautiful, beautiful thing.
• 1:30:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I can, I can send you a shot of it via the email.
• 1:30:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Try and try and try and try.
• 1:30:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, one day he chased it down the hallway, she got into an elevator and the doors closed right on his nose.
• 1:30:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean,
• 1:30:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So one day we were guests at the con and she was a guest at the con too.
• 1:30:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: So she came back and said, she's here.
• 1:30:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's here.
• 1:30:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going together to autograph it.
• 1:30:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: The next day he brought his sketchbook in, went and got in line, got up to her and that they were selling for five bucks, they were selling photographs and she was supposed to autograph the photograph.
• 1:30:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he bought the photograph, but when he got to her, he said, I don't want you to autograph the photograph.
• 1:30:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want you to autograph this.
• 1:30:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: and he put it down in front of her and she looked at it and said, oh my, you don't want to keep this.
• 1:31:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You want to give it to me.
• 1:31:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, no, I want to keep it.
• 1:31:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want your signature.
• 1:31:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So she signed it and he told me about this and I said, well, after you broke off, um, if she gets this and he says, if you wanted to, by by them, I won't need it.
• 1:31:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he had a frame that and put it over his drawing board.
• 1:31:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: He gave her
• 1:31:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: He gave storm the shell and nickel's face and I became aware of this only when Richard got a hold of the people of dragoncom because he said she's going to be dragoncom after David died and and I said I want her to have this so let's go give it to her and so he got in touch with them and and drove me down there because I couldn't grab myself I'm like only blind did you know that
• 1:31:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: you told me in an email.
• 1:31:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I am.
• 1:31:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can see, but I can't see enough to drive a car or my fire truck or anything else.
• 1:31:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I used to be a firefighter.
• 1:31:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: Amazing.
• 1:31:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: The closest thing you can get to being a superhero without getting shot at is to be a volunteer firefighter.
• 1:31:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
• 1:31:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: you save property and money, you train on your own time, you don't get paid for it.
• 1:32:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when the long goes in, you jump out a bit or wherever you are, turkey dinners or whatever and say goodbye.
• 1:32:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm out of here and you go to the emergency and you deal with it.
• 1:32:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, we went to DragonCon and she came in the shell necklace came out and at this point she had gotten old and she had just a halo of white hair around her face and I said,
• 1:32:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: That storm in her elder age.
• 1:32:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's who they've used, whose face they've used for storm.
• 1:32:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I went back and I looked at the drawing that she had autograph.
• 1:32:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she even remembered, I said, you may not remember this, but I told her what he had told me that time.
• 1:32:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: She says, I remember that.
• 1:32:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's my signature.
• 1:32:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, yes, I gave it to her.
• 1:32:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: She didn't take it home with her.
• 1:32:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had to mail it because she couldn't get on the
• 1:32:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: on the plane with them, but which I did and she got.
• 1:32:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I told her I said, this has to be certain places and it has to be in your family as an error.
• 1:32:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she says, it will be.
• 1:33:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she was like, wow, you know.
• 1:33:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at that point, I could see that they've had given storm in the show's necklace face.
• 1:33:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when I sent you that, that, all right, I will, you'll see.
• 1:33:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd love to see it.
• 1:33:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd love to put a post up about it too.
• 1:33:16
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, do you want to talk about if you have any recollections, his design of the character Mystique, who's just an incredibly fan favorite villain?
• 1:33:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes, that has a story.
• 1:33:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: They've been, they've liked to draw pretty ladies.
• 1:33:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: They've liked strong women.
• 1:33:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: He married me!
• 1:33:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, of course he did.
• 1:33:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: He used to just draw pretty ladies at one point shooter wanted him on staff and got him on staff for a while Designing covers and I think this may have been between the his two runs on on X-Men which has a story of all of them.
• 1:33:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: He had an office in Marvel at the time.
• 1:33:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: He used to just put things up
• 1:33:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it was the the the cover she was designing sometimes it was just drawings and he would put up especially pretty ladies He put up this drawing of this woman, you know I came into his office looked up at it and says I want her who is she what's your name?
• 1:34:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's her powers and they've looked up from his drawing board and said she's a pretty lady
• 1:34:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And and Klamot said can I have him for the experiment and they still have for men.
• 1:34:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says Klamot, he gave Klamot a drawing.
• 1:34:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: We zero oxet and Andy Anches who is a coloring boss at the dump and I sat around doing a we zero oxet and and that's how you worked out your color your costumes
• 1:34:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: You zerox it you shoot it down to to books size and then you zerox the the black and white out and then you use your your after martens and you sit there how about green and purple know how about yellow and orange know how about red and blue you know and we finally came up with the white dress
• 1:34:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: The blue skin red hair, and I looked at that and I says, she needs a spot of color.
• 1:34:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I made her yellow eyes.
• 1:34:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you looked at me and says, you don't think anybody's going to think she's night crawlers mother.
• 1:35:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you?
• 1:35:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I says, red hair, no tail.
• 1:35:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nah, nah, I'll be fine.
• 1:35:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, well, later on.
• 1:35:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: I ironically she turned out to be night crawlers father.
• 1:35:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Something like that.
• 1:35:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
• 1:35:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: No, that's how they revealed because destiny's the mother and they they've revealed in the comics.
• 1:35:16
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, Misty shapeshifted and and biologically fathered night crawler.
• 1:35:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: My call.
• 1:35:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:35:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, actually Dave, when he created night calling, he created night crawler before he ever went to marble.
• 1:35:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't he put him in a group called the outsiders that he was trying to sell to they see, but they see looked at it and said, no, he looks too weird.
• 1:35:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he took him over to marble and they said, Oh, yeah, let's do that.
• 1:35:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so he came to Marvel completely done.
• 1:35:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when he appeared at Marvel, he appeared at the very same form costume colors, the whole nine yards.
• 1:35:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: David already done him.
• 1:35:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, and then let me ask you about one more.
• 1:35:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you have a recollections of his design of the character, Death Bird, who is another kind of fan favorite.
• 1:35:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: She's an alien woman and a purple feather kind of bodice, incredible design.
• 1:36:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's a little Andrew's sister in the CR Empire.
• 1:36:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: He just did that.
• 1:36:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he just sat down.
• 1:36:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:36:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Claremont says I need, you know, a character to do this that I think, and to be actually against LaLandra, inheriting the empire and he came up with death first.
• 1:36:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, okay, so he just he just drew it.
• 1:36:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I said, yeah, like it was not to like when when when when they designed something, you know, he was a consummate designer as well as a storyteller and an incredible just cover artists all around just what yeah, what an incredible incredible storyteller overall.
• 1:36:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's so wonderful to see you and I you mean they've only had the one child, correct?
• 1:36:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: Ivan's as only
• 1:36:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: That I've been, yes.
• 1:36:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's wonderful to see you and I have been kind of remembering and honoring Dave's legacy.
• 1:36:57
  [SPEAKER_10]: What's it been like for you to interact with fans and other professionals over the years?
• 1:37:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Professionals and and cochrome fans are absolute people who are not cochrome fans.
• 1:37:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, thank you's old hat.
• 1:37:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he was absolutely crushed when he called Marvel at one point and told me who he was talking to.
• 1:37:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: wanted work because he had just quit the clay pool of the soul searchers in company where he did a lot of good work.
• 1:37:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: The person he was talking to, who was at Marvel, said, well, your work is old fashioned and stuffy and don't call us, we'll call you.
• 1:37:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: This was after he had just gotten a note from the Marvel offices saying that his page rate had gone from a hundred and some of the hundred and ten dollars to two hundred dollars, but he never got another bit of work from them.
• 1:37:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone who knows Dave, he never had a bad word to say about anybody.
• 1:37:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I, on the other hand, will point fingers and say, you son of a bitch.
• 1:37:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, or that sort of thing because I am like that.
• 1:38:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: The boys who wrote right the Scarlet Witch don't know what to do with a strong woman.
• 1:38:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: She's had a good in comics the last couple years.
• 1:38:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: My friend Steve Orlando has been making her very epic.
• 1:38:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: It a lot of ways.
• 1:38:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: She's really epic.
• 1:38:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't seen that because I haven't read the comic books since the eyes blue.
• 1:38:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
• 1:38:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that funny six years ago.
• 1:38:23
  [SPEAKER_10]: She did get a, she did get a good television show a few years ago.
• 1:38:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if you got to see one division.
• 1:38:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 1:38:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
• 1:38:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: One division.
• 1:38:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: I saw that.
• 1:38:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: That was pretty good.
• 1:38:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
• 1:38:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Except her, her power keeps, uh, they deal with that by making her power driver nuts.
• 1:38:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: because how could a woman possibly handle so much power?
• 1:38:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not because I can handle that kind of farewell.
• 1:38:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Guess what, honey?
• 1:38:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you a cute thing about Nightcrawler.
• 1:38:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: When David and I were first together, the first Christmas we were together, he did a painting of Nightcrawler.
• 1:38:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Later on Cliff Math put it on a book he did a days work and I don't know if you can see it, it's that's one.
• 1:39:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sure.
• 1:39:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 1:39:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know the one I'm talking about.
• 1:39:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:39:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 1:39:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have it on my wall here.
• 1:39:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is is that he gave it to me for Christmas.
• 1:39:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: We framed it.
• 1:39:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: We put on the wall.
• 1:39:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were living in a the third floor walk up that he we were living at the time and had a long dark hallway and then the other hallway had the living room which
• 1:39:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: had a big picture window that had a light, a street light out, out front of it.
• 1:39:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it had a little bit of light spilling into the living room, and I was walking down the hallway, one night that all the lights were off, and I don't know why I was going down to the living room.
• 1:39:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm walking alone, all of a sudden, there was, I felt uneasy, and there was someone looking at, I looked up, and
• 1:39:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's this yellow eye is glowing, you know, and he came running out because I screamed like, ah, you know, and he came up, what, what, what, and I said, look, and he goes, ah, he goes, we got to move that.
• 1:40:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: But because the light from the outside caught on the yellow of the eyes and glowed.
• 1:40:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: And it touched you just wrong if you came around that corner.
• 1:40:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh yeah.
• 1:40:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
• 1:40:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Dark past a passageway, yo.
• 1:40:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, so we live the comic book life we talk in bubbles actually when told me that once he says he knew I was in comic books because I he was watching me talk with his cousin and across the room and she says you'll never get so paid he does for a living and he says has to be something to do with comic strips of comic books and she says
• 1:40:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: How do you know that?
• 1:40:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know her?
• 1:40:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
• 1:40:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know him?
• 1:40:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
• 1:40:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why do you say that?
• 1:40:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: He says I've been watching her talk to you.
• 1:40:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: She talks in bubbles.
• 1:40:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can see him forming over her head.
• 1:40:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's it.
• 1:40:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes up and for color, right?
• 1:40:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes up and for her.
• 1:40:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and he goes right.
• 1:40:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the twerblown twist we think in bubbles.
• 1:40:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: You can just really, we're just kind of uniquely made for each other.
• 1:40:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: It sounds like you just got on in every way.
• 1:41:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:41:02
  [SPEAKER_10]: If you and Dave got an argument, what did that look like?
• 1:41:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we didn't argue.
• 1:41:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was one time he did something that I didn't I told him not to do and he did it anyway and that was the only fight.
• 1:41:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was making dinner and he was sitting down at the table, you know, and I put us together on the table, and I was making up the salad, and he turned around, and I told them, never give me a hecky.
• 1:41:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think they're rowdy, and they're stupid, and they're not good for you, because they break basically, you know, mark on your neck.
• 1:41:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: and he turned around tried to give me a hug just because just because right guys got to try so and then I pushed him off and he sat down laughing and I took the ball a big bowl of salad and I dumped it on his head put the thing over you know and he said what was that for and he's dripping oil going to ruin the well and and stuff I said when I tell you not to do something you don't do it
• 1:42:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: At the next time you try that, you'll get the spaghetti and it's hot.
• 1:42:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: You're a delight.
• 1:42:13
  [SPEAKER_10]: What a wonderful story teller you are first of all, but I love these stories.
• 1:42:18
  [SPEAKER_10]: This is wonderful.
• 1:42:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: Dave means a lot to me as a reader.
• 1:42:23
  [SPEAKER_10]: I have shared on the show a few times, but
• 1:42:25
  [SPEAKER_10]: I grew up, I was born in the late seventies, so I'm in my mid-forties now, but I grew up in the mid-nineties in a pretty abusive home.
• 1:42:33
  [SPEAKER_10]: And the X-Men always represented a sense of safety for me.
• 1:42:37
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, I was of course picking up the books under, you know, Fabian Nisiasa and other writers, but I got to go back to this treasure trove of back issues and look up the origins of all my favorite characters.
• 1:42:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: I ended up writing my high school senior thesis on diversity in the X-Men, which of course launched with all these multicultural
• 1:42:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: Countries represented by Dave and Chris in their work.
• 1:42:57
  [SPEAKER_10]: And then I went on to work on the Marvel Handbooks.
• 1:42:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: Now producing a show about comics, I've become kind of a comics historian.
• 1:43:03
  [SPEAKER_10]: And Dave, I don't know, it's heartbreaking to know that he didn't realize how much he meant to the industry.
• 1:43:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: But his characters, man, his book went on to be number one for years and years and years and it remains fifty years later among the most popular superhero books of all time.
• 1:43:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's just a phenomenal talent.
• 1:43:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they were, they will, because Claremont and Count Anne Cough from War Magic, they were.
• 1:43:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, the infamous design of the Phoenix costume alone is just, you know, it's just worth its weight in gold.
• 1:43:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was originally David wanted her to have a white costume.
• 1:43:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: They thought the colors, I guess, whether it was Marie or whether it was just sitting down and saying, at the time, the books were printed on newspaper, a newsprint.
• 1:43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It could only we hold so much ink because you had ink on the one side and ink on the other side.
• 1:43:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that paper could only hold so much ink.
• 1:43:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: We had a very limited range of colors because the black plate was always the line art.
• 1:44:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But the other colors, other three colors, you had only certain amounts that you could put there.
• 1:44:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they were afraid that if they gave her a white costume, which would be no color, basically, you're your paper, which was sometimes yellowish and sometimes whiteish.
• 1:44:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: But they were afraid that colors from the what was on the other side of the page would bleed through it.
• 1:44:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So she'd have a midriff that said, you know, Joe Shmo's comic, you know, or something like that.
• 1:44:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so they made it green because green is a living color.
• 1:44:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then of course, Buren got on the book.
• 1:44:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: First thing he did was do something to make her evil.
• 1:44:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how he changed always.
• 1:44:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I hear stories about Dave being pretty easy to work with and burn being pretty difficult to work with.
• 1:44:49
  [SPEAKER_10]: Freak consistently.
• 1:44:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the funny thing was is that they came in one time and Claremont was in the office and and I was there and you know, he came in and he grabbed Claremont and said Chris if her wants to get the ever wants to get off the X man I wanted back and Claremont said here he handed him a a synopsis.
• 1:45:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: He said he just wanted off to go do FF and they took it and it's just okay.
• 1:45:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: There we go.
• 1:45:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's how he got back on the X man.
• 1:45:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: Katie, it's a genuine delight to hear your stories.
• 1:45:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: Just a treasure trove of information.
• 1:45:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm so pleased to know you and to hear these stories live.
• 1:45:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: I've been able to read them, but just getting to know you, I'm just all smiles.
• 1:45:29
  [SPEAKER_10]: What a wonderful time this has been.
• 1:45:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: These are our stories that I tell at the one here at the Runk Convention, I go to, which is the local convention in Charlotte every year.
• 1:45:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here is Colin.
• 1:45:41
  [SPEAKER_08]: Sure.
• 1:45:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll sit there and tell tales of old Marvel and people will come and say, tell us, tell us the one about Dave, you know, doing this or Dave doing that or tell us where the time you chase Stanley down the hallway with the rhythm, bro, threatening to pop him over the head and he didn't fire you know.
• 1:46:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that happened.
• 1:46:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Lots of fun.
• 1:46:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anytime, you want to talk about stuff like this, you can come back.
• 1:46:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: One last question, what was it like for Dave to see the X-Men in the movies?
• 1:46:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I know it had been a number of years.
• 1:46:16
  [SPEAKER_10]: And the first film came out.
• 1:46:18
  [SPEAKER_10]: I know Alan Cumming playing night crawler was such a big deal, even though they made him super religious, of course.
• 1:46:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was funny.
• 1:46:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: We knew the mountain movie was coming out.
• 1:46:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: They who created most of the characters that didn't even get an invite to it.
• 1:46:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It came to our local theater and and we went to the local theater to see the see the movie guy who owned the theater, you know, we told them
• 1:46:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: they've created these characters and he says, oh, oh, I have all these things that the movie people said that we're supposed to give out to people who are going into the movie.
• 1:46:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: They're little brochures.
• 1:46:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Could you sit here and sign them and we'll give you a free movie ticket.
• 1:46:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he sat in front in front of the movie, the movie, giving out and and autographing programs, giving them out the people and then they let us go in and finally see the movie.
• 1:47:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that was worth a lot more than a free movie ticket.
• 1:47:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but he didn't even get an invite to come see the premiere in New York.
• 1:47:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was pretty worthy.
• 1:47:19
  [SPEAKER_10]: I wish that was a unique story I'm hearing.
• 1:47:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: So many people who are just legendary in the industry feel so overlooked and even sometimes disrespected.
• 1:47:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's why when he passed away, I had Cliff make a notation that don't send flowers, don't send any if you want to celebrate Dave make a donation to it's called the hero initiative.
• 1:47:44
  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, yeah.
• 1:47:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And how the different name at the time, which is what's confusing me.
• 1:47:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: But now it's known as heroes initiative and it helps older professionals that have been pushed out of the business.
• 1:47:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: We, both David and I donated art to Cliff when he tried was raising money for Gene Collins I surgery.
• 1:48:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it was
• 1:48:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, there's so much talent that was at the time, and if the artists were laid back, like Dave was, and were pushy, like Gene Cole was, they sort of got pushed away, and that's unfortunate, because the industry needed at the time, and there's a lot of new talent coming in, that's wonderful.
• 1:48:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
• 1:48:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, we talk, you open by sharing one of your favorite characters was the Submariner.
• 1:48:33
  [SPEAKER_10]: We've talked even about Bill Everett, who was a different generation who went through some of those same things in the latter part of his life.
• 1:48:40
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a trend that's unfortunate when we have so much love for these characters in this industry.
• 1:48:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: Are you comfortable sharing with our listeners how old you are, Katie?
• 1:48:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm eighty three.
• 1:48:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: You remind me and I hope it's okay to say this.
• 1:48:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: You remind me so much of my grandmother in a beautiful way.
• 1:48:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: My grandmother died at the age of ninety three.
• 1:48:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the last several years were life.
• 1:48:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: She went blind and just remained this vibrant, wonderful, warm, incredible person.
• 1:49:04
  [SPEAKER_10]: I love hearing these stories about your youth.
• 1:49:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need their look, nor sound like an eighty-three-year-old woman.
• 1:49:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: No, you don't at all.
• 1:49:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you want me to sound like we're going to climb the road.
• 1:49:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you so much for all of the laughs of the stories my friend.
• 1:49:24
  [SPEAKER_10]: This has been a genuine delight.
• 1:49:25
  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm so appreciate your time.
• 1:49:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anytime, dear.
• 1:49:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'll be in touch.
• 1:49:29
  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you, everybody.
• 1:49:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: So much for listening.
• 1:49:31
  [SPEAKER_10]: This has been just such a joyful honor.
• 1:49:33
  [SPEAKER_10]: If you want to follow the show, make sure to go to Instagram.
• 1:49:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: Grimalk and underscore land is always the easiest way to reach me.
• 1:49:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you want to ask Pani Concomedy questions, please feel free to forward me as survey or a question.
• 1:49:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: And I will be definitely forwarded on.
• 1:49:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, everybody.
• 1:49:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you so much for listening.
• 1:49:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: We will see you back here next time on Grey Malkin Lane.
• 1:49:51
  [SPEAKER_10]: and now stay tuned for some thoughts on fascism as a special guest tonight talked about a red skull story and its modern applications.
• 1:50:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: As millions perished in the war, Hitler began expanding his personal fortunes, building elaborate properties.
• 1:50:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: In nineteen thirty five, he built Berkhoff, the lavish alpine estate for about four point five billion dollars.
• 1:50:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: All the money figures here by the way are put in the equivalent of modern money.
• 1:50:18
  [SPEAKER_10]: So the equivalent of four point five billion today
• 1:50:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: In nineteen thirty-six, he built his Führer bunker in Berlin for around five point five million.
• 1:50:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: His personal mom proof shelter, basically.
• 1:50:29
  [SPEAKER_10]: In nineteen thirty-eight, he built the Eagles Nest, which I've been to in the Austrian Alps at the cost of two hundred and fifty million dollars.
• 1:50:36
  [SPEAKER_10]: A personal vacation resort that he barely used.
• 1:50:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: In nineteen forty, he built Adelhorst, a twenty million dollar series of luxury bunkers for his favorite flunkies.
• 1:50:46
  [SPEAKER_10]: awful, awful people at his side.
• 1:50:48
  [SPEAKER_10]: In nineteen forty five, he built Wolf Shuncha on the Eastern Warfront where he commanded the war for nearly two full years.
• 1:50:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's an eighty building complex that he spent a hundred and fifty million on.
• 1:51:00
  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's jump to tales of suspense seventy nine through eighty one.
• 1:51:03
  [SPEAKER_10]: The red skull is alive in modern times, everyone.
• 1:51:06
  [SPEAKER_10]: Gas has kept him and two of his flunkies and suspended animation for years.
• 1:51:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: As he wakes up, shortly after Captain America has emerged from the iceberg, he lights up a cigarette, puts on a green bathrobe, and takes over the organization, them, which is basically Hydra and Aim mixed together.
• 1:51:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: The group has a grand imporator, which is very Ku Klux plan, and the Red School immediately goes after Captain America, who he discovers is a lie again.
• 1:51:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: In this same issue, the group them is harnessing cosmic energy in the form of a cube.
• 1:51:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: As the holder of the cosmic cube grabs it, they can use this cosmic energy to change reality based on their thoughts as long as they are holding the cube itself.
• 1:51:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: So the interchange between Cap and the skull now here sets kind of their whole vibe up for the next six to years, which is interesting.
• 1:51:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: Captain America says, you are always a loser skull.
• 1:51:56
  [SPEAKER_10]: Your own third right was reduced to ashes by the very forces of freedom you so despise.
• 1:52:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: And one of your beloved Führer, he took the cowards while they allied planes reduced his fortress Europe to smoking rubble, and the skull replies, no!
• 1:52:10
  [SPEAKER_10]: No, those are lies.
• 1:52:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you hear?
• 1:52:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: All lies.
• 1:52:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: The war has never ended.
• 1:52:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: And never been one.
• 1:52:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: It was only the first battle we lost.
• 1:52:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: So long as evil lies to musted the forces of bigotry greed and oppression, the fight goes on.
• 1:52:23
  [SPEAKER_10]: So long as men take liberty for granted.
• 1:52:25
  [SPEAKER_10]: So long as they laugh at brotherhood.
• 1:52:27
  [SPEAKER_10]: near at honesty and turn away from the faith, so long will the forces of the Red Skulls creep ever closer to the final victory.
• 1:52:33
  [SPEAKER_10]: So the skull picks up the cosmic cube, it glows with power and his insane eyes glow golden.
• 1:52:38
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the dream of every conqueror since the beginning of time, the ability to have every command, every slightest wish instantly infallibly obeyed from this moment on, the universe itself must bend to the supreme will of the Red Skull.
• 1:52:51
  [SPEAKER_10]: So the Red School rants maniacally about his power and his potential, and he summons himself a massive suit of golden armor, which is very Donald Trump.
• 1:52:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: But Captain America knocks the cosmic cube out of his hands, and the skull falls down down into the water, weighed down by his golden armor.
• 1:53:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: His death has never stuck before.
• 1:53:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: Will it this time?
• 1:53:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: Probably not.
• 1:53:14
  [SPEAKER_10]: Let me welcome my dear friend Sarah Galey to talk about this crazy story with me Sarah, how are you and what would you do with the cosmic cube?
• 1:53:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm so great.
• 1:53:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so happy to be here talking to you about this, this pair of issues was so much fun.
• 1:53:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, real answer is with a cosmic cube.
• 1:53:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would well, the Universal Enlightenment of all beings, but golden armor answer.
• 1:53:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would probably make my cat immortal.
• 1:53:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's she's fourteen and
• 1:53:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's, you know, we have a fourteen year old cat.
• 1:53:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're kind of looking at them going clock stickin' buddy.
• 1:53:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to, I don't want to have that clock stoptick and ever.
• 1:53:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a question I'm asking everyone and there's only one answer, but are you a red skull fan?
• 1:53:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
• 1:53:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing.
• 1:54:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not a fan in terms of like supporting his ideals, of course.
• 1:54:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: But reading these issues, this was my first real exposure to Red Skull.
• 1:54:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I loved reading him.
• 1:54:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I loved reading a story that calls a Nazi waiter.
• 1:54:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Remind me, do we swear on this podcast?
• 1:54:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, you can swear.
• 1:54:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I like reading a comic that calls a Nazi a fucking Nazi and says that their loser piece is a shit.
• 1:54:23
  [SPEAKER_10]: It also makes him like a little Donald Duck like in their portrayal.
• 1:54:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, here's this awful person, but also he's hilarious.
• 1:54:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's so funny.
• 1:54:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's so embarrassing.
• 1:54:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like it's in this issue.
• 1:54:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We see people submitting their will to this guy and the comic accurately portrays it as mortifying to submit yourself to a Nazi to say, I'm going to serve you, you doorcast loser.
• 1:54:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's embarrassing and I just I just love it.
• 1:54:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: It just made my day.
• 1:54:53
  [SPEAKER_10]: There's about three themes I'd like to ask really quickly about.
• 1:54:56
  [SPEAKER_10]: Number one, Captain America's trapped in the iceberg, right?
• 1:54:59
  [SPEAKER_10]: The old values of the nineteen forties preserved and then explored in a modern lens, which at this time is in the nineteen sixties, right?
• 1:55:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: But we see the red skull similarly preserved with, you know, magic gas along with a couple of his aides, who I don't think we've really ever seen again.
• 1:55:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: And then he just wakes up and was like, where's Captain America?
• 1:55:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's a crazy theme.
• 1:55:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: And one of the things we're really considering here as we're looking at kind of fascism rise through the United States in an era where we're taking account of the United States also being pretty horrible historically.
• 1:55:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: But the Nazis are the measure of the great evil.
• 1:55:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: So the capred skull kind of arch rivalry is already fascinating.
• 1:55:39
  [SPEAKER_10]: What are your thoughts on the two of them being similarly suspended and then reawakened at the same time?
• 1:55:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, first of all, I wake up every morning leaping out of my bed saying where it's Captain America.
• 1:55:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I do actually empathize with the red school and that one.
• 1:55:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's just that's just part of gaining consciousness.
• 1:55:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think it's really
• 1:55:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: wall parallel to say, hey, these are two men out of time.
• 1:56:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of them is aware that he's out of time and feels he's out of time.
• 1:56:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the other one feels that his ideals are eternal.
• 1:56:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he's just waiting for his moment the whole time, basically.
• 1:56:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:56:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, red skull pops up and it's like, nope, we're still going.
• 1:56:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's so accurate to the mindset of a fascist.
• 1:56:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, contemporary new Nazis will say, oh, no, the war never ended.
• 1:56:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: we're still at it, which is part of why it's our responsibility as non-peasorship to always be fighting back and to never get complacent.
• 1:56:35
  [SPEAKER_10]: So second theme, the red skull, you know, kind of amplifies himself as the leader of a movement, but when he gets the cosmic cube, he does not make that movement.
• 1:56:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: happen.
• 1:56:45
  [SPEAKER_10]: He instead wishes for personal riches and like triumph over his personal enemy, which is why I opened with this idea of like Hitler's lavish spending at all these things.
• 1:56:55
  [SPEAKER_10]: Everyone's like losing lives and like surrendering property while he's building billion dollars states in the mountains.
• 1:57:01
  [SPEAKER_10]: Very parallel to today, obviously, and in some uncomfortable ways.
• 1:57:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: What are your thoughts about that kind of selfishness of the fascist leader who says he's there for the good of his people?
• 1:57:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just, it's just so on the nose.
• 1:57:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Vashes leaders are never actually interested in populism.
• 1:57:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're interested in personal enrichment and gain.
• 1:57:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: One hundred percent all stop and a story and they exploit people's desire to feel like they're part of movement in order to amass wealth and control.
• 1:57:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you have like kid school lunches being
• 1:57:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: ripped out from underneath them while, you know, the wealthiest people in this country are buying private planes and they're saying, hey, we're doing this for you.
• 1:57:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look, it's the horseshit and it's central to every fascist movement is consolidation of power and resources at the expense of the many.
• 1:57:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: And then my third question, you get this device, this ultimate power machine, and really the very unsuttle theme here is not only does the red skull not have a lot of imagination, but with ultimate power look at what the potential, if we leave this unchecked and untapped and we let it
• 1:58:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: spread because it has that ultimate power, which is, you know, the resources and the belief and the structure in which to grow, look at what happens.
• 1:58:17
  [SPEAKER_10]: And the only way we can get rid of it is to kick it right out of his hand and let his gold, his own gold armor, you know, hoist his own guitar, whatever that phrase is like the way him to the bottom of the ocean.
• 1:58:26
  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, it's, it's, it's comical as it's portrayed here, but it's, it's kind of a deep and not very subtle theme.
• 1:58:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I loved reading the panels where they're like, we've developed this cosmic cube.
• 1:58:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever you do, don't let red skull get ahold of it.
• 1:58:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then in the next issue, he's like, I got it.
• 1:58:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this cosmic cube is it's it's great.
• 1:58:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love that there's no deep explanation of how this happened and what it is that they're not saying hey, we're going to explain every little detail.
• 1:58:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, we made it and here it is.
• 1:58:56
  [SPEAKER_10]: There's so many hilarious panels, the one where he's blowing his like little circular smoke ring, and he's saying terrible things, but this character is, again, it's very Donald Duckie.
• 1:59:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's almost hilarious in the way he's portrayed.
• 1:59:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: It makes, which makes me kind of uncomfortable, because there's an odd parallel to modern era, right?
• 1:59:12
  [SPEAKER_10]: Where Trump is almost this kind of comical weirdo?
• 1:59:15
  [SPEAKER_10]: He's so stupid, and there's so many terrible things, but like it's extremely dangerous when you look past the humor and ridiculousness of it.
• 1:59:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this piece of issues do a good job though, balancing the vital need to ridicule fascists.
• 1:59:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's very important not to take them seriously publicly.
• 1:59:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ridicule undermines fascism so fast.
• 1:59:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a good job balancing that with really not stepping away from how evil he is.
• 1:59:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: We get to see red skull compel a man to shoot himself in the head and red skull steps out of the room and then there's the vent shot sound from behind the door and he's saying, good, now I don't have to look at anything unpleasant.
• 1:59:50
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
• 1:59:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's an extremely evil, like killing moment at the same time, he is not as a man being taken seriously.
• 1:59:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: One thing with the cosmic cubes that I find really fascinating is that his, as you said, he's not very imaginative and his wildest fantasies still involve him being in charge of war, but because he's in total control of all people in these fantasies, they're going to war for his entertainment and not for consolidation of power, which I think is fascinating.
• 2:00:20
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, his first thing is to kind of envision himself as like a supreme monarch on a metal throne with a greed, you know, helmet, like sending thought waves out to everyone to obey him.
• 2:00:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, he turns a man to dust and crumples him away.
• 2:00:32
  [SPEAKER_10]: He betrays his own allies.
• 2:00:34
  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a, there's an evil to this man.
• 2:00:36
  [SPEAKER_10]: And then that gold armor look man, he's never looked better, but also it's so fucking ridiculous.
• 2:00:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna lie with that old armor.
• 2:00:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's got some drip.
• 2:00:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's giving himself abs on abs.
• 2:00:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's like taller.
• 2:00:49
  [SPEAKER_10]: Also, his face is a mask.
• 2:00:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a whole plaster mask.
• 2:00:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: He wants to keep it on.
• 2:00:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: He just likes it.
• 2:00:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have one thought about the ending, which is, you know, the cosmic cube drops to the ocean floor.
• 2:01:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't see what happens to it.
• 2:01:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it's very well set up for, like, some time in the future.
• 2:01:07
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, he gets it back, like, very quickly.
• 2:01:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll show you the show.
• 2:01:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just wish that, like, an enterprising starfish would get the cosmic cube, but we didn't have, like, just give me a one shot of what happens.
• 2:01:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: What happens in the meantime before he gets it back?
• 2:01:22
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, no, it's fun.
• 2:01:23
  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's fun to balance the humor and all of this, not all of the stories are humorous, but these sixty ones are a blast.
• 2:01:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, my last question for you, and then we'll move on.
• 2:01:30
  [SPEAKER_10]: The twenty twenty five comparison as we are living, you know, queer people in this country where hope is eroding and we are using dissociation as a daily survival tactic.
• 2:01:42
  [SPEAKER_10]: Reading the story, fifty, sixty years later is deeply uncomfortable in that way because you want to feel like we've moved past it, but here we are.
• 2:01:50
  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you have any thoughts on the twenty twenty-five comparison?
• 2:01:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I, I kind of had an opposite experience reading this because, you know, again as I said, it's so refreshing to read a comic right now that is unapologetically portraying and criticizing Nazis.
• 2:02:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I write or some major comic book franchises and for some big companies working to
• 2:02:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: get around legal, the censorship teams.
• 2:02:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can tell you right now I wouldn't be able to write this comic today.
• 2:02:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:02:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: The way that it is.
• 2:02:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: There.
• 2:02:18
  [SPEAKER_10]: Anders and practices being what they are, yes?
• 2:02:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 2:02:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't be able to put us lost to guns amongst armed in a comic for a major company without serious concerns from SNP and from legal.
• 2:02:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm speaking from one week ago as we record experience with that.
• 2:02:34
  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
• 2:02:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: So reading this made me go, damn, it's real rough right now.
• 2:02:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like our institutions back then, we're not supportive of Nazis.
• 2:02:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And our institutions right now are like, wow, maybe we can hear a mouth.
• 2:02:47
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah, no fully understood.
• 2:02:49
  [SPEAKER_10]: We don't want to offend anybody who believes in Nazis.
• 2:02:52
  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's a big thing.
• 2:02:54
  [SPEAKER_10]: But also we can't say that person's gay because that might also make people uncomfortable.
• 2:02:58
  [SPEAKER_10]: There, thank you for joining me for this crazy story.
• 2:03:00
  [SPEAKER_10]: I will forever associate this gold armor with you specifically.
• 2:03:05
  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh my god.
• 2:03:08
  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you for listening to Grimalk and Lane.
• 2:03:09
  [SPEAKER_10]: We hope you are enjoying this podcast.
• 2:03:11
  [SPEAKER_10]: Grimalk and Lane is produced and recorded in Salt Lake City, Utah with music and editing done by my husband, Michael Bell, and promo art done by the incredible Seth Martell.
• 2:03:21
  [SPEAKER_10]: Look for us on Patreon, where we are releasing weekly episodes about obscure characters and facts.
• 2:03:28
  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a great way to participate with the podcast for only just a couple of dollars a month and it helps support what we are doing here.
• 2:03:34
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• 2:03:36
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• 2:03:44
  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll see you back your next time on Grimmulkin Lane.