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How to Ask for a Raise: The Salary Negotiation Playbook for Women · Loud & Lifted

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Welcome to Loud and Lifted. Today, we're talking
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about something that impacts so many women, but
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still doesn't get talked about nearly enough
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in a real, practical way. And that is self -advocacy
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around pay, promotions, and professional advancement.
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So many women are working hard, taking on more,
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staying loyal, and assuming the right people
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will just notice. But too often, hard work alone
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does not lead to the raise, the recognition or
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opportunity they've earned. This episode is about
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how to change that. I'm joined by Bobna Smith,
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founder of Until There Are Nine, an organization
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focused on helping women advocate for their rightful
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share of compensation, rewards, and career growth.
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Bobna brings both personal experience and deep
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insight to this conversation, and we get into
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the why women often struggle to negotiate, how
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to think differently about compensation conversations,
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what managers need to understand, and how to
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stop leaving money on the table. This one is
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honest, practical, and full of takeaways I wish
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more women learned earlier in their careers,
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including myself. Welcome to Loud and Lifted,
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Bobna. Thank you so much for being here. Thank
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you for having me. Okay. So you are truly living
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a loud and lifted life, helping women advocate
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for promotion, compensation, and confidence for
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asking for what they earn. So we're going to
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get into some tools and tactics that you have.
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But before we do that, Tell us about you and
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how this all came about. Sure. So again, thank
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you for having me. So I wasn't always loud and
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lifted, and it wasn't until much, much later
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in my career, I think 20 -ish years into it,
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where I had a very different... discussion around
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compensation when I was interviewing for a new
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role and actually found that I was able to increase
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my salary substantially. And I wanted to share
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that realization and how other women can do that.
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Love that. Thank you. Thank you for that. So
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tell us what you've been doing. Sure. So I spent
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20 -ish years in marketing, still in the marketing
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industry. And somewhere along the way, as I mentioned,
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I was switching roles in companies. And the recruiter
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asked me, so, Bhavna, what's your number? And
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typically, I had always just kind of accepted
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the offer, never really had a discussion, never
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initiated a discussion, never even thought to
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ask or negotiate for any part of the compensation.
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And when he asked me what's my number, I just
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said, what are you offering? And he gave me the
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range, and it was significantly higher than what
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I would have quoted him, which is I take my salary,
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I add 10 ,000 to 20 ,000, I think pool, I got
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a raise, pat myself on the back, and move forward.
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And when I had that discussion, I realized, wow,
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that was actually almost a 70 % increase in my
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salary. Then came the next bit, which is when
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he gave me the range, I asked myself, well, how
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do I go in and ask for the highest end without,
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again, that feeling of feeling selfish or greedy?
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And I asked a male friend, I said, how would
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you ask? And he was like, what do you mean? You
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just ask. I was like, wow, they really do make
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it super simple, don't they? And I'm sitting
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here worrying about how do I ask? So I wrote
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a very nice email and asked for the highest end
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while maintaining some kind of flexibility of,
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but I'm willing to hear the entire compensation
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package that you have. And they came back with
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pretty much the highest end of the range. And
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I was just... floored i was so excited i'm sharing
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all of this back and forth that i had with the
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recruiter with a friend of mine and she was said
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to me wow that's really good save that for me
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when it's my turn and something in me clicked
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at that point because i always had a few women
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that reached out to me for advice when they were
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looking to interview And, you know, I said, well,
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wouldn't it be neat if I could just start like
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almost like a group chat, you know, and say,
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hey, here's what I said, or tell me what you're
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doing. And I can, you know, we can help you in
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real time. And it wasn't until years later, actually,
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after, you know, during COVID, and we were all
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in lockdown, that I said, you know what, I had
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that idea a few years ago, let me start writing
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down. And I got my verbatims that I shared with
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the recruiter. It ended up turning into kind
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of like a Google Doc playbook of how do you negotiate
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salary? And then it evolved into, well, how do
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you ask for a rager promotion? Like, because
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that's most of our situations. And there was
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how it started with until there are nine. I love
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that. And, you know, we all read about the gender
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pay cap. And we just actually had a episode about
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gender bias, which kind of paid into that. how
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does such gender pay gap happen? Like, what do
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you think drives that? So there's a really great
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report. So when, before Nine started, and actually
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it was what gave me the idea when I started to
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write this playbook, I started to do research
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on the gender pay gap. So, you know, 83, 84 cents
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on the dollar. And I found this really great
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paper from Sarah Jane Glynn. And she had this
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amazing, you know, kind of report on the reasons
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for the pay gap and what we can do about it.
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And she listed several reasons, things that are
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quantifiable. So things like years of experience
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in the industry, race and region certainly play
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a factor. But there are also unexplained reasons.
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And that's a combination of essentially discrimination
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and I think women's own reluctance to ask or
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their negotiating style in a way. So I kind of
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started to read about that and think well, that's
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bullshit like we can fix that You know, I don't
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want to be the reason that I am underpaid So
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I don't you know, we I can't care about what
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other people think of me just because I'm asking
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for You know 10 ,000 20 ,000 or asking questions
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So the pay gap that there's there's so many reasons
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for it, but there are certain things that you
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know are in our control Sure. And I can totally
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relate to that. And there is this uncomfortableness
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or unsettleness when you feel like you're advocating
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or asking for yourself for money. Yeah. Right.
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It's other things or for your company. And I've
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been guilty of that. I think of it early in my
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career. I was at a big corporate organization,
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kept taking on more responsibility and thought
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like, oh, eventually I'll just get what I deserve.
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Guess what? I never got what I deserved because
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I didn't want to ask. So when women are in that
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situation and it really comes down to that self
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advocacy, how do we approach that? I think you
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almost have to take yourself out of it because,
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you know, like you, I know a lot of other and
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myself included, I didn't know that I should
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be advocating for myself until much later. And
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I'm thinking, wow, how much money did I leave
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on the table all of those years? So I know a
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lot of women, really good friends of mine that
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are very, you know, very strong advocates for
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their teams, their clients, their, you know,
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parents, their family members, their kids. But
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when it comes to advocating for themselves, they
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really just, you know, retreat from that. And,
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you know, it is I don't know why I'm not a psychologist
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to explain those things. But I think if you're
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asking yourself, what can we do to think about,
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you know, what advice would you give other women?
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Like, what would you tell your best friend or
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your, you know, coworker? if they were having
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this discussion of how do I advocate for myself?
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I know, you know, women who have gone, myself
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included, years without accepting, you know,
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without asking for a raise or accepting the fact
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that raises aren't being given and, you know,
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they say the squeaky wheel kind of gets the grease
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and it's not to really be annoying to your employers
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because you have to understand the context of
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maybe why you're not getting the raise or why
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you're not getting promoted. But really, the
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lesson is don't wait around to be asked because
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you ultimately are in charge of your own career.
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No one is going to be, you know, it's no one
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else's job to wait, you know, to kind of make
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sure that you're getting promoted. You're getting
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the raise that you deserve. It really is in your
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own control to do those, to take care of those
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things. Makes sense. So someone's listening to
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this, which I'm sure this is the case for many
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women listening to this. And they're like, wow,
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I haven't had a Raise I'm not really getting
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compensated for all the additional work. I've
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taken on in the last year or two What's that
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approach? How do we approach that first thing
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you're thinking I need to do something now What
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do I do? Yeah, so I think there's a couple of
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things one is, you know pay equity is making
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sure that you're getting paid the same as others,
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men and women, for the role that you are doing.
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So when you get hired, the job description is
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essentially, think of it as your scope of work.
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So the company is saying, this is what we're
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going to ask you to do, and in return, we're
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going to pay you, I'm making it up, $150 ,000.
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Okay, and then if a client was to increase your
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scope, You wouldn't say, sure, I'll keep doing
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it for the same amount of money, but now you're
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asking me to do more. And again, that has to
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be substantial and a pattern over a period of
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time. So I think you can approach that discussion
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with your manager and say, hey, my level, I'm
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a director level, and I'm making this much, and
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this is what you asked me to do. Now, since then,
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my clients have doubled or my region has increased.
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And certainly, quantify. you know, your accomplishments
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to justify the increase as well. But it is really
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just kind of looking at it from almost a very
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business standpoint, which I think is important
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because I think women tend to personalize and
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feel like, oh, I don't want to ask. I don't want
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to feel greedy. But if you think of it as a business
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contract that you have with your employer, it
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makes it a little bit easier. I love that. And
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what about timing? When do we do this? So it's
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not whatever you feel like it. So we give some
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guidance to women. There's actually, we put a
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checklist together for a promotion. Like, how
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do you know you're ready for a promotion? And
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we have 15 things on there that women should
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understand because it's not just, hey, you did
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a good job and... you know, now it's promotion
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and raise time, so you should ask. Certainly
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that's, you know, what is the window? And every
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company has one specific window or multiple windows
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throughout the year where they look at raises
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and promotions, but there are also other things.
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So, you know, did you do something just amazing
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at the company where it got a lot of press and
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a lot of publicity? And you can know, can you
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leverage that as a way to ask? Have you brought
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in a really big client or helped renew a really
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big client, and there's like been, you know,
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revenue increase. But there's also, you know,
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how is the company doing? Right? So if the company
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isn't doing well, and they're laying off people,
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and that's a whole separate thing, you know,
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but if they're laying off people, that's probably
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not the best time to go in and ask how you ask
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when you ask and frame it is really important.
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I think women need to understand the context
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of the corporate environment that they're operating
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in. So it isn't just about advocating for yourself,
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that is so, so important. It has to start there.
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But you also really have to understand, you know,
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kind of the corporate landscape, what your bosses
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are thinking, what's happening in their mind.
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And before you go in and ask, I can't like put
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an exclamation behind that enough. Because yes,
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I said I wasn't great advocating for myself,
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especially early in the career. But then sitting
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in the manager, the bossy the last several years,
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I've Been on the other side of those conversations
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where some people came in prepared handled it
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appropriately had the facts And i'll never forget
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this one woman came into my office who had been
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there for several years good employee Not amazing,
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but but decent right after we had a staff meeting
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where I said we were behind budget We weren't
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hitting numbers. We were behind our revenue goals
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And you know kind of batten down the hatches
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figure out how to save money and increase sales
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She came into my office and asked for a raise.
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Not like a two percent, it was like a fifteen
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thousand, I mean something significant and I
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just sat there baffled. Like I can't believe
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the timing of you asking me this. Like and I
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don't even know how I handled it. I think I took
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a lot of deep breaths before I responded. Like
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hello, were you in the last meeting? Yes. So
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that was, I appreciate her having the comfort
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to come to me but it's like That just showed
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she was completely oblivious to what was going
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on and and to me it hurt her credibility It hurt
13:01
her like hey, you are not paying attention to
13:04
what's going on Like we're trying not to let
13:05
people let go essentially and you're asking for
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a race So I think that is important. You want
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people to be confident you want them to come
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in there, but timing is so important timing is
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important. And I would have counseled her had
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she come to me, I would have said, Hey, okay,
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you you cannot go in, you know, right after this
13:24
meeting, give it a week or two kind of breathing
13:28
room, and go in and talk to your direct manager
13:32
and ask them and if that was you great, you know,
13:35
going into you. Yeah, so going into your direct
13:38
manager and saying, Hey, I understand the message,
13:41
you know, you have to acknowledge what you just
13:45
heard and ask the question, how are you compensating
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or what is your retention strategy in the light
13:53
of our business context? How are you rewarding
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your employees? And that could be monetary, that
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could be in other ways, but it's asking the question
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rather than... just saying, I want an increase.
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And if that's the priority, that's great. But
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you really have to go in with, again, the timing,
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not after the meeting, give it a week or two,
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rehearse script, and really try to understand
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how are you going to be rewarded, given the business
14:25
environment. That makes total sense. Now, of
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course, every company is different with their
14:31
timing. But typically, budgets are set. in the
14:34
fall, winter, performance reviews and raises
14:37
happen typically in the spring. So we're probably
14:41
in that time phase where people just went through
14:42
performance views, maybe got raises. But how,
14:45
from a year -round perspective, do we make sure
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we're doing the things, besides doing our job
14:50
and doing it well, that when it comes to budget
14:53
season that your manager is like, wait, I need
14:56
to take care of my employee. She's been doing
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this. So how do we sort of operate throughout
15:00
the year? That's a great question. And I think
15:03
a lot of people assume that you will ask for
15:07
the raise or the promotion or try to negotiate
15:09
your raise when you are given that raise. And
15:13
that could be in January, February, March. But
15:15
the problem with that is those budgets were decided
15:19
months ago. And we did a whole focus I think
15:24
back in October or November around now is the
15:28
time to really quantify the value of your accomplishments
15:31
and have a pre -chat with your manager and ask
15:35
for raise or promotion or just let them know
15:38
because what they don't see behind the scenes
15:41
is. the managers or the managers managers are,
15:44
you know, they in many cases have an Excel file
15:47
and they are looking at budgets for next year.
15:51
They're determining what the raise in the bonus
15:53
pool is going to be and how that's going to get
15:56
split across, you know, the high performers versus,
16:01
you know, the people who are going to get a smaller
16:04
raise. So that could be a 2 % versus 6%. So that's
16:07
kind of already been decided even promotions.
16:10
And I think you might, you know, I'm sure you
16:12
experienced this as well. You kind of know who's
16:14
going to get promoted before you're actually
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giving out those promotions. So I think you have
16:20
to understand again, it's the context and the
16:23
timing is really important. Asking for a raise
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when you're getting your performance review is
16:28
not the right time. You need to have communicated
16:31
your intent or your wish or this is what I'm
16:34
looking for in the following year. I'm looking
16:37
for a raise. I'm looking for a promotion. I'm
16:40
looking to move to a different department, whatever
16:42
that is, you know, when your managers are actually
16:44
making those decisions. That's great advice.
16:48
So what about self promotion and exposure? How
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does that all tie into how these decisions are
16:54
made throughout the year? So I always tell people,
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you know, you can't just negotiate in a vacuum.
17:00
You can't have this conversation once a year.
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You also can't negotiate your value if you cannot
17:06
recognize and articulate it. And that needs to
17:10
happen throughout the year. It is not a one -time
17:13
thing. It is not just around your performance
17:15
reviews. I get asked by a lot of young women,
17:19
by a lot of women actually across their career
17:22
journey, well, it feels like I'm bragging. Like,
17:26
okay, you have to reframe it as communicating
17:29
and stakeholder management. I would have a sticky
17:34
on my laptop when I worked at a consulting company
17:37
that was highly matrixed. like networking internally
17:42
was really important. Communicating your value
17:44
was really important. And I would say, who needs
17:47
to know? And when I had a great meeting or a
17:51
really bad meeting or something was coming up,
17:53
I needed to communicate, you know, who else needs
17:56
to know? Well, I work in this one group, but
18:00
you have a lot of stakeholders across the company
18:02
in different groups. So kind of sending an email,
18:05
you know, once a week, once every couple of weeks
18:08
and putting in some senior people where the information
18:11
is going to be relevant. Even like, hey, we had
18:14
a great meeting with this client. And, you know,
18:17
last week, the team did a great job. There were
18:19
a couple of next steps, wanted you all to be
18:22
aware. So you kind of think of it as communicating,
18:26
because I think people really like being informed
18:29
and what's in the know, especially around big
18:31
happenings in the company. Sure. And how important
18:33
is that exposure outside just your Manager like
18:37
to the rest of whether it's a leadership team
18:39
or to the CEO depending on the structure of the
18:41
company How important is that and how do we go
18:44
sort of a? Not above and beyond but above and
18:47
beyond just focusing on our manager I think it's
18:50
critical because you those decisions that are
18:52
made around raises and promotions and visibility
18:55
and you know different like really good projects
18:58
are Not necessarily made by your manager. So
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this is especially important if you're women
19:04
who are early in their careers because their
19:07
managers are also kind of like mid level. And
19:11
you really want to get in, you know, you want
19:13
to be visible across the organization, across
19:17
departments and across senior leaders because
19:20
they're the ones who are making those decisions
19:22
in the room. And you can't, you know, unfortunately,
19:27
you know, manager training has really dropped.
19:29
in companies, so you can't only rely on your
19:33
manager anymore to be the advocate for you in
19:36
the room. You might get a manager who's a really
19:39
strong advocate. That's great. But sometimes
19:41
you have a manager that isn't, you know, very
19:44
vocal and may not, not because they don't like
19:47
you, but they're just like not in their personality
19:49
to, you know, kind of be vocal in the room. So
19:51
it's important to make sure people across the
19:54
company, you know, know who you are. And when
19:56
that time comes to say, oh, Betsy should get
19:59
promoted. Everyone in the room kind of like nods
20:02
their head like, oh, yeah, I know Betsy. She's
20:03
fantastic. Yep. That's so important. And it doesn't
20:07
matter the size of company. I mean, I've seen
20:08
that at smaller companies and larger companies
20:10
need to have that influence and sponsors from
20:14
others. So I love that. All right. Let's flip
20:16
this a little bit. So we've been talking about
20:18
when you're on the side of the table asking for
20:21
promotion, raise, whatever it is. What if you're
20:24
the manager who has somebody come to you and
20:27
I gave my story of bad timing, but somebody comes
20:29
to you and they're a good employee, but they're
20:32
like, I Googled my job and on Glassdoor I should
20:35
be making 200 ,000 and they're making 75. I don't
20:38
know making up numbers, but as the manager How
20:41
do you handle that when you have employees who
20:43
are solid employees, but they're coming with
20:47
whether it's wrong time bad numbers Whatever
20:50
it is. Like how do you how do you handle those
20:52
conversations as a manager? So again, I think
20:55
as a manager what I would love for every manager
20:58
to do when an employee comes to them and asks
21:02
for something, and they're clearly advocating
21:04
for themselves, the first thing to say is, thanks
21:08
for asking, or thanks for bringing this up. I
21:12
think we have to reinforce the behavior, but
21:15
course correct, you know, maybe how they went
21:18
about it. But I don't think we should, you know,
21:21
tell people like, well, I can't believe you asked.
21:25
And I think that's one of the reasons where women
21:27
feel, you know, reluctance to go in and ask because
21:31
of, you know, kind of, I think a lot of women,
21:33
you know, get backlash, again, perceived as greedy
21:36
and selfish. So the first thing is, hey, thanks
21:38
for asking. I'm glad you brought this up. Now,
21:41
where are you getting those numbers from? And
21:44
you know really and then also communicating the
21:47
compensation strategy of the company because
21:50
what we tell women You know and and guide them
21:52
towards isn't that you should just go in and
21:54
ask for more You just want to make sure you're
21:57
not leaving money on the table So if the range
22:00
of the of the role that you're in again is between
22:03
a hundred and a hundred and fifty Well, you should
22:06
understand, you know, what is the range where
22:08
where do you fall and why but it's also you know
22:11
incumbent on the manager to communicate, you
22:16
know, hey, you're in the range and that requires
22:19
the entire company. Like that's a system issue,
22:22
right? HR needs a compensation strategy. The
22:24
manager should understand what that is. How is
22:27
that range determined? What's the criteria? And
22:30
being able to communicate that. back to them
22:32
because it's not just, oh, well, if you've done
22:35
your research with external sources that you
22:39
should be making triple, well, in this company,
22:42
the role that you have, this is the range that
22:46
we offer. And it's based on years of experience.
22:50
It's 10 years of experience at the low level,
22:52
15 years at the higher level. Just have some
22:55
quantitative criteria. Because I think people
22:57
just want to trust that they're making what they
23:00
are supposed to be and they're not being underpaid.
23:04
I think it's really just having that comfort
23:05
level and confidence. No, that's great. That's
23:08
a great approach. And you sort of touched on
23:10
this in the beginning with your own story, but
23:12
when you're taking a new job at a new company,
23:15
how do we approach that? How do we, what are
23:17
we based enough of what we made and then trying
23:19
to add money to that? Like, how do we, how do
23:21
we go approach that when we're taking a new job
23:23
and making sure we're not leaving money in the
23:25
table. So never ever give your number. Have it
23:30
ready. Have it in the back of your head. Have
23:32
a sense of what you would like or what you think
23:34
the role not It's not even like what you would
23:36
like I would like to make you know millions of
23:38
dollars But you know, you can't just go in and
23:41
expect that so you have to really understand
23:44
You need to go to credible sources, you know,
23:47
and it's not just one source But it's you have
23:49
to use multiple sources use recruiters use job
23:53
descriptions that list pay ranges and You know
23:56
make sure you have that in the back of your mind,
24:00
but never ever give your number if you can help
24:02
it. And always say, what's the range for the
24:06
role? Well, like, OK, well, I would rather get
24:10
the range from them. And then you can ask, well,
24:14
what's the criteria that you use for that range?
24:17
Cool. I like that. And again, ask questions,
24:21
you know, understand their rationale. What's
24:23
their logic behind the numbers rather than coming
24:27
in with your own? Because you want to know if
24:30
they actually have rationale for, you know, they
24:33
have a compensation strategy because, you know,
24:35
again, the goal isn't to make as much as you
24:38
can. It's to make as much as you can within the
24:40
range that they're providing you. That's great.
24:44
And it's funny as you're saying that it also
24:45
makes me think about people who've been at the
24:47
same company for a long time how and I victim
24:51
of this I have friends who are victim of this
24:52
where people come in doing something similar
24:55
Making way more because they negotiated better.
24:58
They had that opportunity Meanwhile, i'm sitting
25:00
here get my you know, three percent raise every
25:02
year So if you're in that situation where it's
25:05
probably a bigger company where there's structure
25:07
people coming in, you know Just kind of you know,
25:10
they're coming in making more than you. How do
25:13
you approach that? So I'll tell you a really
25:15
quick story. And I realized as a manager, many
25:19
years ago, I was responsible for, you know, kind
25:22
of like salary across my team. And I saw the
25:27
range of salaries across team members. And I
25:30
saw this woman who had been at the company for
25:32
a very long time. She was one of the top performers
25:36
in this company. And she was paid like she was
25:40
at the lowest end of salaries. And I asked, why
25:45
is she so fantastic? Why is she not paid as much
25:50
as some of the other folks? And the response
25:53
I got was, well, the other folks just kind of
25:55
negotiated more, better. And this woman had been
25:59
at the company for a really long time. And so
26:03
I think, again, as the manager, as women, especially
26:08
managing teams, you can identify the pay inequities
26:13
within your own team. So even if the company
26:16
may not have a compensation strategy, you should
26:18
be able to ask questions of making sure that
26:21
your team members are being paid fairly based
26:24
on performance or based on years of experience.
26:27
And I think as the employee, it is just asking
26:30
the question of Again at the right time with
26:33
the right context, you know understanding what
26:36
is the range that you know, they should be making
26:38
and again the companies need to have Rhyme and
26:42
reason for the pay ranges and I think with the
26:44
salary transparency laws That you know have been
26:48
kind of rolling out throughout the country It's
26:51
becoming easier and companies are being forced
26:53
to publish ranges and have you know have ranges
26:57
that they need to communicate internally and
26:59
externally so people aren't being underpaid who
27:03
have been there for a really long time. No, that's
27:06
so important and so true. And from the company
27:09
perspective, when you're sitting there managing
27:11
P &L and you're like, well, I can save 10 here,
27:14
20 there. It's not personal. It's a business
27:17
decision, not the right business decision by
27:19
any stretch. But that's how this just sort of
27:21
happens. And to your point, it's not that it's
27:24
always malicious. The gender pay gap just happened
27:26
because of how we're approaching our Personal
27:29
corporate strategy of of you know, being an advocate
27:32
for ourselves So it's so interesting when sometimes
27:35
I think you think no one's looking at you and
27:36
be like, oh you're a woman I'm just gonna pay
27:38
you less. I don't have it's it's not that black
27:41
and white typically, but it's like we've just
27:43
created this Cycle, yes in order to we have to
27:48
figure out how to break it and it takes the managers
27:50
and the leaders and you know business owners,
27:53
but then also the employees, they have to take
27:56
responsibility for that too, for that advocating.
27:59
So it's, I don't know, are we headed in the right
28:02
direction? Do you think? I think, you know, the
28:04
more we talk about it, the better it is. And
28:06
I think, you know, really letting, and again,
28:09
this is why. You know nine exists because it's
28:12
not just teaching you how to self advocate But
28:14
it's giving you like insider intelligence that
28:16
women especially going coming into the workforce
28:19
Don't have and you it takes years and years of
28:22
trial and error to learn this but you know every
28:25
company worth their salt should have a You know
28:29
a budget for a role that they're recruiting for
28:32
Every company, you know, so like hey, we're gonna
28:34
pay, you know between a hundred and a hundred
28:36
fifty thousand dollars for this role and As the
28:40
employee coming in you should know that there
28:41
is a range that there and when they make you
28:44
the offer they are naturally going to give you
28:47
offer you the lowest end of the range and If
28:50
you accept it, they're thinking great. We just
28:53
saved ten twenty thirty grand, right? And that
28:57
can go that's gonna go back to their you know
28:59
bottom line, but if you ask for, you know, more
29:04
based and again, you know, the criteria for the
29:06
100 versus 150 and you ask the right questions
29:09
and ask them why they decided to give you the
29:12
hundred instead of 125 or 150 or somewhere along
29:15
that continuum. Then you kind of have you're
29:18
using numbers and data to make your ask rather
29:21
than I just want more. So again, it's harder
29:24
to argue with that. So Companies expect to negotiate
29:28
their starting point is always going to be the
29:30
lower end. So, you know, don't hesitate I love
29:34
that Okay, so this has been a lot of good advice
29:37
for both people at both sides of the table So
29:40
what's your parting advice words that will help
29:44
eliminate this or close the gap on the gender
29:47
pay gap? What do you think we need to do? So
29:49
I think the one thing that I would like to tell
29:52
women is set goals that matter I think too often,
29:58
you know, women tend to do that. And I think,
30:01
you know, that like housework type of, you know,
30:05
that was talked about, you know, before is, you
30:09
know, you're volunteering for all of these committees
30:11
and, you know, you're kind of like the mom of
30:14
the team and you're taking care of everybody.
30:17
Fine. No one's going to tell you not to do those
30:19
things, but those things are not getting you
30:22
promoted. So you really have to focus on goals
30:25
that matter. And when I say that matter, talk
30:28
to your manager about, are these the things that
30:31
are going to get me promoted? Or are these the
30:33
things that are going to actually have an impact
30:36
on my career trajectory in this company and based
30:39
on what I would like to accomplish? Yes or no?
30:43
make sure that you're connecting your goals to
30:45
the business goals because most companies, if
30:49
not all companies, really just look at your value
30:53
to them is how much money are you saving them
30:56
and how much money are you making them? So if
30:58
you're in sales, that's a super easy way to say,
31:00
I'm making you money. But if you're in other
31:03
administrative roles, think about how you are
31:06
operating that helped the company make money
31:09
or save money or bring some type of quantifiable
31:12
value. which leads me into quantifying your value.
31:18
There's three work categories that every woman
31:21
should keep in mind. So when you track your accomplishments,
31:24
categorize your accomplishments into one of these
31:27
three categories. The first is people developer.
31:30
super easy to understand how are you helping
31:32
people, whether it's the intern or whether it's
31:35
your peers, whoever it is, you're managing and
31:38
developing people. The second is business operator.
31:41
That business operator is really about how are
31:43
you, you know, working along with the processes
31:46
and the administrative things or even, you know,
31:49
how you're running, helping to run the company
31:51
and your team. And then, finally, the value creator
31:53
is, this is the role that you were hired for.
31:56
What is the value that you are creating within
31:59
the role for your company or for your client
32:01
or both? And have accomplishments, well, have
32:05
goals and accomplishments under each of those
32:07
three categories. And at least for one, in each
32:11
of those categories, quantify the value. What
32:14
is the impact that you've had on the number of
32:17
people, on the... money saved, money earned,
32:22
make sure at least one has a dollar sign, percent
32:25
sign, or number sign next to it. And so when
32:29
it comes time to, and that's really kind of creating
32:31
your business case. And when it comes time to
32:34
asking for that raise or promotion in the right
32:36
time, in the right context, you bring that business
32:38
case to your manager and present it as a fact
32:43
-based decision rather than any, you know, It
32:47
doesn't need to be emotional. It just needs to
32:49
be fact -based. Oh, that's so good. And fact
32:52
-based is so important when you're dealing with
32:54
money, right? Essentially, that's what the company
32:57
is always trying to maximize their money, save
32:59
their money. So you can show how you're impacting
33:02
that versus, oh, she's really nice and she's
33:05
a hard worker. She stays late. That's great.
33:07
But that's not going to get you a salary increase
33:10
or maybe even a promotion. So being really factual
33:13
and having the numbers behind that. I think is
33:16
amazing advice. And one last piece of advice
33:19
is when you make your ask, stop talking. Oh my
33:26
gosh. That's amazing. Stop talking. Just silence.
33:30
Let the other person process what you've asked
33:33
for. Formulate a response because too often we
33:37
tend to say oh, but I understand, you know, if
33:40
you can't do it like or Worse, I have you know
33:44
two kids in a mortgage and I just bought a house
33:47
like no Just no just put your ask out there based
33:52
on this. I would like stop talking and force
33:56
the silence force a response and Whatever the
34:00
response is, you know, make sure you have and
34:03
answer ready to go. Oh, that is amazing. That
34:07
is the best advice to end on right there because
34:09
it's so true. We start to spiral. We start to
34:12
explain or give other details that aren't important.
34:15
So causing that silence is a great tactic. I
34:18
love that so much. Oh my gosh, Bob, now we could
34:20
talk about this for another hour. This is such
34:22
great advice. So if people want to find you additional
34:25
information, we'll put all the links in the show
34:27
notes, but you definitely have some great tools
34:29
and resources to help. support women. So thank
34:32
you for being loud and lifted in your mission
34:36
in life, which is amazing, supporting women.
34:39
Thank you so much. I love this conversation because
34:41
it was such a good reminder that self -advocacy
34:44
is not about being difficult, pushy or ungrateful.
34:47
It's about understanding your value, knowing
34:49
how to communicate it and being willing to ask
34:51
better questions instead of hoping someone else
34:54
advocates for you. Too many women are leaving
34:57
money, opportunity, and advancement on the table
34:59
simply because they've been taught to wait, stay
35:02
quiet, or make themselves more comfortable for
35:04
everyone else. And Bapna made such a strong case
35:07
for why this has to change and how to make it
35:09
happen. If this episode resonated with you, send
35:12
it to another woman in your circle. These are
35:14
the conversations that help us all lead louder
35:17
and lift higher.