Latest / The Horsehuman Connection Matrix / Animal Comunicator Asha Wolf checks in with Charlie about what happened.

Transcript

Animal Comunicator Asha Wolf checks in with Charlie about what happened. · The Horsehuman Connection Matrix

• 0:00
  Hi, this is Ishi Abel with the Horse Human Connection Matrix.
• 0:04
  I wanna do a little preface to ASHA's interview because we just jumped right in.
• 0:10
  ASHA's an animal communicator.
• 0:12
  She's also a horse person, and she had a conversation, with Charlie about the episode of my podcast, Charlie Bucks, which outlines what happened on the Hill when.
• 0:24
  Uh, a trainer came flying off and I've been using my, my own inner landscape, Charlie's history of training, uh, what happened that day and, um, having people comment on it.
• 0:43
  Excuse me.
• 0:44
  So Chris has weighed in on it.
• 0:46
  ASHA's weighing in on it.
• 0:47
  Kimberly Dunn is weighing in on it.
• 0:49
  And, um, we may have a couple other people.
• 0:52
  So looking at this from many different perspectives, and I think the question of how to proceed when a horse bucks the questions of what, what happened, why did he buck and how to prevent it.
• 1:07
  And, um, how to move forward are all like, very, very relevant to most horse people and most horse trainers.
• 1:14
  So stay tuned.
• 1:16
  As always, I really appreciate your support.
• 1:19
  Subscribe, follow, like donate and most of all, tell your friends.
• 1:25
  Thank you.
• 1:26
  Well, I can't wait to hear what Charlie has to say.
• 1:29
  It's such a cutie pie.
• 1:31
  I'm looking at his picture.
• 1:32
  He is, he's such a sweetie.
• 1:34
  So I'm just, I'm gonna direct it so that he knows what the conversation is about.
• 1:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 1:40
  So I'm just telling him, Hey, we're gonna have a little conversation.
• 1:44
  'Cause he's like right with me.
• 1:46
  But I wanna tell him that, like, I'm telling him he's a cutie pie.
• 1:51
  I tell him I really like him.
• 1:54
  He's a cute personality.
• 1:57
  Is what I'm getting.
• 1:58
  Is this like really cute personality?
• 2:04
  Is he a little bit in your pocket?
• 2:06
  Oh, he's in like c He likes to come up and share breath and then be kissed.
• 2:12
  Okay.
• 2:13
  I kind just saw him like right with you, like in in your space a little bit.
• 2:17
  Yeah.
• 2:17
  In a cute way.
• 2:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:20
  And like appropriate way, but cute, right?
• 2:23
  That you just kind of in there.
• 2:25
  He really likes the human interaction.
• 2:28
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:29
  He really enjoys that.
• 2:32
  It's like he wants to be more than just a horse.
• 2:34
  He wants to be a pet in a way, and he understands that it's different than cats and dogs.
• 2:40
  He's telling me Uhhuh and like he's saying that.
• 2:45
  People have rules about that.
• 2:49
  He's like, I get it because we're big.
• 2:52
  Mm-hmm.
• 2:53
  But like, that's just kind of what he's asking.
• 2:55
  Like he, he wants to be a little bit of a pet.
• 2:58
  He's one of those horses you see on Facebook that wants to come in the house.
• 3:03
  Okay.
• 3:03
  Okay.
• 3:04
  There you go.
• 3:05
  That's what I'm picking up on.
• 3:06
  He is just like, but he understands that it's different, that he's a horse.
• 3:10
  He's not like the dogs and the cats, like he gets it.
• 3:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:16
  Like he understands it's different and that he, that you have to be different with him because he's big.
• 3:23
  He's a horse.
• 3:24
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:25
  But there's this side of him that just kind of really wants to be your pet.
• 3:32
  And I'm telling him That's okay.
• 3:33
  That you guys can figure that out together.
• 3:36
  Yeah.
• 3:37
  Oh, he said we're already figuring it out.
• 3:41
  Okay.
• 3:42
  We are.
• 3:43
  Okay.
• 3:44
  So I'm gonna I have a feeling he would just keep going.
• 3:47
  So, i'm gonna, I'm gonna g gently shift the energy to the training sessions or, or what happened the last time he had a saddle on.
• 4:02
  Maybe that's the way to do it.
• 4:04
  I'm just kinda like getting a feel for what he, he gets for the general.
• 4:08
  Feeling of the training sessions.
• 4:09
  'cause I remember tuning into him briefly before with you.
• 4:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:13
  Like it wasn't a session, but it, we kind of tapped into him.
• 4:17
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:17
  What I got was he was ready mm-hmm.
• 4:20
  To do training.
• 4:21
  He was ready, he was open, he was willing, and he says that he still is.
• 4:26
  And then he says, oh, I know what you wanna talk about.
• 4:30
  And so, yeah.
• 4:30
  So there we are.
• 4:31
  Okay.
• 4:32
  Let me, let me just get a feel for what he has to say about it.
• 4:35
  I'm gonna ask, basically I'm asking him his perspective.
• 4:39
  I'm saying, okay, so that's what happened.
• 4:41
  Can you tell me about that?
• 4:42
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:43
  What, what I just said to him, and then he says, too much, too fast.
• 4:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:51
  I have a young brain.
• 4:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 4:54
  How old is he?
• 4:55
  Nine.
• 4:56
  Oh, okay.
• 4:57
  I, I kind of gathered like five-ish that maybe that's his, like.
• 5:03
  Where his brain is.
• 5:04
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:06
  'Cause he is not seasoned under saddle at all.
• 5:08
  At all, so.
• 5:09
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:10
  He says too much, too fast.
• 5:11
  I have a young brain, let me see what else he has to say.
• 5:17
  Oh, he's, he's changing subjects.
• 5:19
  He says, I love the trails.
• 5:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:22
  He says, I'm inquisitive.
• 5:25
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:26
  And people think that's a good thing.
• 5:29
  I know what he means by that.
• 5:30
  Like, you know, we, we want a horse to be curious.
• 5:33
  Mm-hmm.
• 5:33
  Because you can move through that versus being afraid of everything.
• 5:37
  Right.
• 5:38
  Right.
• 5:39
  Saying he's very inquisitive and he knows that that's good, that people like that about him.
• 5:44
  Okay.
• 5:45
  He says, I want credit where credit is due.
• 5:49
  I'm a good horse.
• 5:51
  That's fair.
• 5:53
  He says, I've got a good brain, and then he's referring to the trainer.
• 5:59
  She was just too fast for my liking.
• 6:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:05
  And I'm telling him that that's fair.
• 6:08
  That it's our job as people to, you know, go at a pace that works for them.
• 6:14
  Yeah, I'm telling him that's fine.
• 6:18
  And then I'm asking him like, what would he like in regard to the training.
• 6:24
  He says, slow the pace and reward me better, and I'll be fine.
• 6:33
  Okay.
• 6:34
  So it sounds like he wants to keep being.
• 6:37
  Trained to be ridden.
• 6:39
  Yeah.
• 6:40
  He has no problem with it.
• 6:41
  He actually, he says, I rather like it because it's time with people.
• 6:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 6:49
  So he has good associations with people.
• 6:53
  He finds them very strange sometimes Uhhuh.
• 6:58
  So do I.
• 7:01
  Right.
• 7:02
  It's like he likes trying to figure them out.
• 7:06
  He likes trying to figure you out particularly.
• 7:10
  Okay.
• 7:11
  He understands the training.
• 7:12
  Is the training.
• 7:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:14
  So he's not so interested in figuring the trainer out.
• 7:19
  He just wants to learn how to do it.
• 7:22
  He's very open to learning.
• 7:23
  He has no problem with that.
• 7:25
  He's not resistant at all is he?
• 7:30
  Is he aware that she's really hurt?
• 7:33
  He says, no.
• 7:34
  I did not know that.
• 7:36
  We had the conversations with him before about how fragile people are and not bucking.
• 7:42
  Do you remember that?
• 7:44
  He says he just got fed up.
• 7:46
  It was like too much, too fast.
• 7:49
  He didn't get rewarded enough.
• 7:51
  He's telling me there wasn't enough pause.
• 7:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 7:56
  Like he, he's showing me he wants time in the ring.
• 8:01
  Or wherever you write he is.
• 8:02
  You, you writing in a ring?
• 8:03
  We were, it's a big round pen.
• 8:05
  It's like an oval pen.
• 8:06
  It's like 14 panels or something.
• 8:10
  Right.
• 8:10
  It, it looked a little weird to me.
• 8:11
  It wasn't like a traditional Yeah.
• 8:13
  But he's showing me that space.
• 8:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 8:16
  And he's like showing me like standing still, like he wants time.
• 8:21
  It's kinda like he wants to do whatever he is supposed to do and then he wants stillness.
• 8:27
  Time to process, like process and absorb.
• 8:30
  Yeah.
• 8:31
  Yeah, that makes sense.
• 8:32
  Like, like just where he is in his training, it doesn't feel like enough to like just take a walk break.
• 8:37
  It's like he wants stillness and maybe that's just his style.
• 8:44
  He's saying, you know, the lick and chew thing is real.
• 8:49
  You know how like we know, oh, the horse is leaking and chewing the pro, they've di they've digested something.
• 8:54
  Yeah.
• 8:54
  It's like he's waiting for that.
• 8:56
  That's a Yeah.
• 8:58
  So he is showing me the stillness is how he licks and chews is how he processes.
• 9:05
  Whether he licks or chew or not.
• 9:06
  He's showing me stillness is his processing.
• 9:11
  That's interesting.
• 9:12
  Does he feel like anybody's broken agreements with him?
• 9:16
  He's just telling me too much, too fast.
• 9:19
  Like if there was some sort of agreement there that was broken.
• 9:23
  When you asked me that question his, when you asked that question, his response was too much, too fast.
• 9:30
  He says, take the time to let me know I'm doing it right.
• 9:35
  So when we, you and me, and he.
• 9:38
  And you, me and Charlie had a conversation before we talked about, rather than him Buck, that he would put his nose on my boot to tell me time to get off.
• 9:49
  And what happened is I told her that, but when he was down at her place, she pushed through that and decided to interpret that it meant something else.
• 9:59
  And was okay.
• 10:00
  And so when that happened on the Hill, things had escalated.
• 10:03
  They were doing circles.
• 10:05
  And I said to her, why don't you get off and ride Sipsy and I'll walk Charlie for a while?
• 10:10
  And she said, no, no, no, we're good.
• 10:12
  We can, you know, I can teach him how to carry his weight down the hill.
• 10:15
  And I saw him put his nose on her boot and look at me and I didn't do anything else.
• 10:21
  The next thing I know he's running down the hill and then he's bucking.
• 10:26
  And she came up over a double flip over his head, one in the air and one on the ground.
• 10:33
  He's just showing me that.
• 10:35
  He's just telling me that, he's like, I had enough.
• 10:41
  He didn't feel respected.
• 10:44
  Okay.
• 10:44
  The agreement, the agreement felt like more between you and him.
• 10:49
  Okay.
• 10:50
  Even though you said it to the trainer, like the agreement was between you and him.
• 10:54
  So what I'm feeling is like when he looked at you, that was the moment and you honored him because you, you had you spoke up.
• 11:05
  But he just keeps saying too much, too fast, like he was done.
• 11:10
  Mm-hmm.
• 11:10
  There was some, he, like his message that he was done wasn't received.
• 11:17
  Okay.
• 11:18
  Yeah, that's, that's fair enough.
• 11:20
  And it sounds like you picked that up.
• 11:22
  You saw that.
• 11:23
  Yeah.
• 11:24
  I mean, but there were a couple of times in between him coming home from her house where I got on him here, and I was only on for a very short time and I got nose to boot, so I got off.
• 11:35
  Or at one point he just, he, he started to take me under a tree and I didn't feel safe, so I exited really quick.
• 11:43
  And so.
• 11:44
  In a traditional training scenario, which is not necessarily where we are.
• 11:49
  Like, I'm encouraged to get off and be safe to respect him, to take slow bits, but in a, if we looked through a traditional lens, I would be training him that anytime he was uncomfortable, I should get off.
• 12:05
  Right.
• 12:05
  So what I'm, what I'm trying to, what I'm gonna suggest to him right now mm-hmm.
• 12:10
  Is that I'm gonna ask him to honor you.
• 12:15
  In that the nose to the boot is not to be used like anytime he wants to be done.
• 12:25
  Right.
• 12:26
  It's only when he feels like he's reached a threshold.
• 12:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:31
  And he, he, he can't handle any more training.
• 12:36
  Does that sound fair?
• 12:37
  Mm-hmm.
• 12:41
  I'm actually afraid after seeing that I can't get it outta my head.
• 12:45
  I, I'm, I was hesitant and ha and had fear about getting on him before, which I've been trying to work through and, and now I have more.
• 12:56
  Sure.
• 12:56
  That would be a session for you.
• 12:59
  We can unwrap that.
• 13:01
  We could, we could, we can talk about that, right.
• 13:03
  But I'm, I'm just saying to tell him that.
• 13:06
  So, you know, every, so what I'm picking up, and I'm not surprised,'cause you know, he's a horse.
• 13:12
  It, it's not emotional to him.
• 13:14
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:15
  Yeah.
• 13:15
  I got that.
• 13:16
  I, I He didn't do it to her.
• 13:19
  No.
• 13:19
  And he has no intention to do it to you.
• 13:24
  It's just in the moment he was done and emotionally he was done.
• 13:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:32
  Right.
• 13:32
  It's like, you know, kinda like when we we can't handle anymore.
• 13:36
  You know, it's like we either shut down or we blow up.
• 13:39
  Like we, we have reactions too.
• 13:41
  Yeah.
• 13:41
  If I was a horse, I would buck, there are a lot of times I would buck if I was a horse, so he didn't do it to anybody.
• 13:48
  Right.
• 13:49
  It's not, it, it was not malicious at all.
• 13:52
  It's not like he's planning on doing it again.
• 13:55
  It's just in the moment.
• 13:56
  That was his reaction.
• 13:58
  That was his response to what he was feeling and what he was dealing with.
• 14:04
  So in that sense he, it's like he's not sorry either, but it's, it's just like, matter of fact.
• 14:12
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:13
  And so now that he knows the trainer's injury, he's, he's like, he's, he's, he, he's sorry about it.
• 14:20
  Like, he's like, oh, like he didn't mean that to happen.
• 14:23
  It's just Right.
• 14:24
  She, she needed her off his back.
• 14:26
  Yeah.
• 14:27
  She needed the break.
• 14:28
  Yeah, he needed the break.
• 14:30
  That's how he got the break.
• 14:32
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:33
  Right.
• 14:36
  Yeah, that makes sense.
• 14:38
  Yeah, he just keeps saying, don't forget the pause and the release, and after I do, well give me some time, some downtime in the saddle.
• 14:50
  That's when he is talking about like the, like let he, he's like, let me stand and do nothing so I can process like mm-hmm.
• 14:58
  I think he's telling me, he's telling me that's his way of processing.
• 15:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:03
  That's his way of licking and chewing, at least for now.
• 15:06
  Okay.
• 15:07
  Like, you know, the walk break I think still feels like work to him.
• 15:13
  Right, and that makes sense.
• 15:14
  If he's not used to having someone on their back and they're asking for a walk, even if it's a relaxed walk.
• 15:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:22
  Loose, rain, relaxed walk, it's still a walk.
• 15:24
  It's still a job.
• 15:27
  It's still, oh, I'm doing what I'm being told.
• 15:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 15:30
  Right.
• 15:31
  So I think he just, he's asking for a stop.
• 15:35
  That makes sense.
• 15:36
  Oh, then the trainer like, sits deep in the saddle.
• 15:39
  A big exhalation.
• 15:43
  To say, oh, we're not doing anything.
• 15:45
  We're just gonna stand, sit.
• 15:46
  Stand here.
• 15:49
  And then, you know, he likes that, like I hold myself up more like an English style and she sits back on her pockets and sits really deep and, and she, I've watched her when she rides and she breaks, she does that really deep seated thing where I relax, but I don't sit back.
• 16:09
  And so you don't, you don't have to sit back.
• 16:11
  I mean, the sitting back and down like you're describing, it just makes it really clear to him.
• 16:18
  But he's telling me that, you know, he's like, I'm sensitive enough, he's, I'm sensitive enough that I can read her energy to talking about you.
• 16:27
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:29
  That if you exhale and just sink, that's enough.
• 16:36
  Okay.
• 16:36
  But you don't have to, you know, you don't have, you can, you don't have to do it at Western style.
• 16:40
  You can, you can just.
• 16:43
  Yeah.
• 16:43
  I mean,'cause when he's, when I have felt, when I have written him and I have felt like his nervous system is starting to come up a little bit or something's not right, that's what I do.
• 16:52
  I just stop writing, which is like, just stop, he's saying with you, so I'm just gonna tell you what he's telling me.
• 17:03
  Okay.
• 17:03
  He says with you, because you don't ask a lot.
• 17:09
  He's okay.
• 17:10
  You don't need to stop so much.
• 17:14
  Like you guys can just walk together.
• 17:16
  He's showing me just like this relaxed walk.
• 17:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:20
  And when you exhale and settle into the saddle, you can do that walking.
• 17:26
  He enjoys the time with you.
• 17:31
  Okay.
• 17:32
  You, you don't ask a lot, right?
• 17:34
  Because you're not like training him the way.
• 17:37
  No, I mean, I'm asking him, you know, to respond to being steered and to respond to my weight and looking and my, my leg and my, you know, boal.
• 17:47
  But yeah, I'm not asking a lot.
• 17:49
  I am gonna, if I continue to ride him, I will start asking, you know, for him to weave or do circles and spirals.
• 17:56
  At some point, he, he's.
• 17:59
  It's like he's telling me that to him, that's more partnership.
• 18:02
  That's just you guys hanging out together.
• 18:05
  That's, it feels different.
• 18:08
  That's all I'm getting from him is it feels different.
• 18:11
  He understands when the trainer comes, it's official.
• 18:15
  That's what he says.
• 18:17
  It's official, it's serious.
• 18:19
  It's like he's on, and so that, that raises his nervous system a little bit.
• 18:28
  That makes sense.
• 18:29
  But with you, he's like, ah, it's like, it's, it's my mom.
• 18:33
  It's like the energy's different is what he is telling me.
• 18:39
  That's all good information.
• 18:41
  Thank you.
• 18:42
  He so do, do we have more time or where are we on our time?
• 18:46
  Not outta time, but let's, no.
• 18:48
  We can do a couple more minutes.
• 18:49
  Okay.
• 18:50
  So Amanda has this system about metaphoric injuries that horses may present with and how it's a reflection of what may be wrong with their person.
• 19:05
  I think we were talking about this like eye infections that are not clearing up and maybe the person isn't seeing something clearly or like right arm pain.
• 19:14
  So he bit me purposely pinched my right arm and I looked up the metaphoric stuff for it and it was spot on.
• 19:22
  And in a way I felt like he's telling me I like that system.
• 19:26
  I would work with that system, no problem.
• 19:29
  And then the last time I worked with a client, he didn't bite.
• 19:32
  Like it's one of the few times we haven't been worried about him.
• 19:35
  Bite is maybe the wrong word.
• 19:36
  Pinching with his teeth.
• 19:39
  I'm not getting anything really from it.
• 19:42
  If anything, he, he just feels a little confused.
• 19:45
  Like he feels like he knows he is not supposed to, but then it, something's not clear about it for him.
• 19:52
  The biting thing that whatever you're calling it mm-hmm.
• 19:55
  It doesn't have a great energy around it, is all I'm getting.
• 20:01
  Well, because he's been, he is been reprimanded for it, and because I've been wishy-washy in the past, it feels like there have been lots of conversations around it.
• 20:09
  That's what it's, it's the wishy washiness, he's confused about it, but I've tried to be clear that it's okay to use your lips, but not your teeth.
• 20:17
  In fact, you've helped me.
• 20:18
  We've, we've had that conversation with him and so the last time he was really good about not using his teeth with the client, and I was appreciative of it.
• 20:27
  Can you tell him that?
• 20:29
  I'm just telling him that teeth are not okay and that lips are okay, and that he needs to be gentle.
• 20:36
  Very, very gentle that humans are extremely ridiculously fragile, is what I'm telling him.
• 20:45
  And letting him know that it's okay, but we're not gonna do it again.
• 20:49
  And that's just the horse person and me kind of coming through.
• 20:52
  'cause I just don't think it's okay.
• 20:54
  'cause once they start, it can escalate.
• 20:56
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:57
  Too hard for them to kind of draw wine.
• 21:00
  Yeah.
• 21:01
  That's me.
• 21:02
  It's just no teeth.
• 21:06
  But you know, the, the lips kind of like, you know, yeah, the lips are good.
• 21:10
  That's all fine.
• 21:13
  And then he's like, I have a young brain.
• 21:16
  I think it's kinda like you have to treat him like he's five.
• 21:19
  I keep getting that.
• 21:21
  Well, Carissa stopped training him because of her schedule when he was five.
• 21:25
  That's where we left off.
• 21:27
  Interesting.
• 21:28
  That's so interesting.
• 21:29
  'cause that's what it keeps coming in.
• 21:31
  And he keeps reminding me that he has a young brain and maybe that's why that that might actually have been something she was saying when he was five.
• 21:41
  That sounds like her wording too.
• 21:44
  Oh yeah.
• 21:44
  And they could pick it.
• 21:45
  They could pick it up.
• 21:46
  Because he said that to me so many times tonight.
• 21:48
  I haven't, I haven't even, I haven't even told you all the times he said it.
• 21:51
  He keeps saying it.
• 21:53
  And then I keep just getting the idea of five.
• 21:57
  Like the age five.
• 21:58
  Well, can we, can we suggest that he's way more mature than he was when Carissa left off training him?
• 22:06
  Yeah.
• 22:06
  I'm just gonna, I just told him like, you're a big boy now.
• 22:10
  You're a big boy.
• 22:11
  You're nine years old.
• 22:12
  Like you're a big boy.
• 22:13
  You're mature.
• 22:15
  And I'm kind of inviting him to kind of like step up and act like that a little bit.
• 22:19
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:20
  Like you're nine.
• 22:21
  You're a horse.
• 22:22
  You're just a solid horse, right?
• 22:26
  Yeah.
• 22:27
  With good ground manners.
• 22:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 22:32
  You know, the lay of the land, you know what's expected of you.
• 22:35
  Now, he likes routine by the way, like what I'm kinda showing him about being a horse and all that.
• 22:45
  He mentioned routine.
• 22:46
  I think he likes routine.
• 22:49
  It doesn't have to be the same thing all the time, but he, but he likes a little bit of that routine.
• 22:55
  Yeah.
• 22:56
  I'm just asking him to step up.
• 22:58
  Okay.
• 22:58
  I think that's kind of what he needs is just a little bit of a firm energy.
• 23:02
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:03
  Like, you know, you're nine years old.
• 23:06
  Act like it.
• 23:09
  Yeah.
• 23:09
  Right.
• 23:09
  I think he's kind of got caught in that 5-year-old, I'm a young brain.
• 23:13
  I have a young brain, that's why you said that to me so many times.
• 23:17
  So I'm like, no, actually, I'm just gonna say you're not fully trained to do fancy stuff under saddle, but that doesn't mean your brain is young, is what I'm telling him.
• 23:30
  Does saying, my brain is young a bunch.
• 23:33
  Is he, is he referring to Carissa?
• 23:36
  Is, is there like a connection there between saying that and, and her, it's kind of like that's all people be.
• 23:44
  He's saying that's all that they believe in me to be or something like that.
• 23:49
  So he picked that up somewhere.
• 23:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:54
  And so I'm just telling him, no, that's actually not true.
• 23:58
  I mean, some horses mature late, late or whatever, but yeah, we can expect we have a different expectation because he's older and, and that's fair.
• 24:09
  So I think there's has to be like a little bit of a separation, like when he's being trained.
• 24:14
  Trained.
• 24:15
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:16
  Yeah, he doesn't know a lot yet, and so you just take the horse where, where he's at, where he is, right.
• 24:22
  He's asking for a lot of pause, a lot of stop, a lot of reward, not too much, too fast.
• 24:30
  Okay.
• 24:31
  He was very clear about that.
• 24:33
  And then I think aside from that, like your job is to treat him like he's nine years old.
• 24:40
  Okay, I can do that.
• 24:42
  I'm like, so you decide when he gets to be all in your face and, and you know, and you decide when he's not right.
• 24:53
  Like, like there's something about like, just he loves to be in your pocket, is what I keep getting.
• 25:00
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:04
  But you can also ask him to stand on all four feet and you know.
• 25:11
  Be a mature man too, is what I'm hearing.
• 25:15
  Like he's like, okay, like that.
• 25:18
  That's new.
• 25:18
  He hasn't really been asked.
• 25:20
  That is what I'm getting.
• 25:23
  Okay.
• 25:25
  But I think that will help him.
• 25:27
  Ah, yes.
• 25:28
  So if you can step up.
• 25:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:31
  Freedom like.
• 25:32
  Fully mature horse with good ground manners.
• 25:36
  You know, good boundaries.
• 25:37
  Like, you know that he's fully respecting you at all times.
• 25:43
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:44
  You can still have your play in all that stuff too.
• 25:47
  Like that doesn't have to go away.
• 25:50
  Excuse me.
• 25:50
  But I think that energy, like him having to step up and be that a little bit more, it's gonna help him under saddle too.
• 26:02
  Okay.
• 26:03
  To help him believe in himself a little bit more.
• 26:08
  And I'm telling him that, you know, he's, he, I'm, I'm saying You got this.
• 26:12
  Yeah.
• 26:13
  You're more than capable, is what I'm telling him.
• 26:17
  Yeah.
• 26:18
  There we go.
• 26:20
  Good.
• 26:22
  Oh, thank you.
• 26:23
  It's so helpful.
• 26:25
  Yeah, my pleasure.
• 26:27
  Yeah, getting to check in with him, getting to see you.
• 26:29
  It's all good.
• 26:30
  Yeah, that was fun.
• 26:32
  When you sent me the picture, I'm like, oh, what a cutie pie.
• 26:35
  He's, he's such a sweetie.
• 26:37
  Such a sweetie.
• 26:39
  Wow.
• 26:40
  Yeah, maybe I'll do some filming.
• 26:42
  Get out there and try the Saddleback on him and film it and see, see what happens.
• 26:48
  He just needs a hundred percent confidence from you.
• 26:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 26:51
  That's a big task actually.
• 26:53
  I know that, but that's what he's showing me.
• 26:56
  I can, I can be confident putting the saddle on him.
• 27:00
  I'm, I don't know that I'm ready to step into the stirrup because I don't know that I'm confident to sit on his back.
• 27:06
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:07
  But we'll take it one step at a time and see what happens.
• 27:11
  He's a good boy.
• 27:12
  Yeah, he is.
• 27:13
  He's a lovely horse.
• 27:14
  Yeah.
• 27:15
  And then yeah, he, he's, he is telling me earlier, I don't know if I actually said it, but he, he says, I'm a good horse.
• 27:23
  You did say that.
• 27:23
  Yeah.
• 27:24
  And he is a good horse, and, and he knows he is a good horse.
• 27:27
  So we just need to help him step up into his, his, his, the, the full.
• 27:38
  The fullness of who he is.
• 27:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:41
  Okay.
• 27:41
  Like he really hasn't owned his, his maturity.
• 27:45
  He hasn't owned all of who he is yet.
• 27:50
  I wonder if some of that will happen when he, when he is ridden more in a ship.
• 27:58
  Yeah, maybe writing.
• 28:00
  I mean, it sounds like he wants to be written like it's important to him, like he wants to keep going.
• 28:06
  Part of me is like, part of me is asked like, is the dilemma do I keep writing?
• 28:12
  Is the dilemma to continue having him trained and who's gonna do it?
• 28:17
  All I get is he's, he's totally open to the training.
• 28:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:22
  To not have a problem with someone on his back.
• 28:25
  He doesn't feel resistant to me.
• 28:28
  Feels curious and inquisitive.
• 28:32
  He's, he's willing.
• 28:35
  Okay.
• 28:35
  I think it's just a matter of like, it's gotta mesh, like it's gotta be a training style that, that he, that he respects and handles.
• 28:47
  And so he's, he told you very clearly what he wants.
• 28:51
  He just needs.
• 28:53
  He's not saying that the training was wrong or not good for him.
• 28:56
  He's just saying he needs the breaks too much, too fast.
• 29:01
  Would he be open to working with that same trainer if she could adjust and respect that?
• 29:10
  Yeah.
• 29:11
  He's like, if she changes, that was her.
• 29:15
  That was his attitude.
• 29:18
  I guess if she does it the same thing would happen.
• 29:21
  Yeah.
• 29:22
  That's kind of what he's implying.
• 29:24
  He didn't say that, but that's kind of his energy is like, gotta change it.
• 29:29
  Yeah, like, like it, he's basically saying that whoever it is mm-hmm.
• 29:34
  Not her particularly, whoever it is, is gotta do it his way.
• 29:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 29:41
  Because to him, that's respecting him.
• 29:44
  Right.
• 29:45
  And that makes sense.
• 29:46
  I mean, any, any trainer is gotta meet the horse where it's at.
• 29:51
  Absolutely.
• 29:52
  Absolutely.
• 29:53
  Is exactly the same.
• 29:55
  Right.
• 29:56
  And so I did, I haven't released it yet, but I recorded a podcast yesterday with Kimberly Dunn, who is, I've interviewed her before and she said a lot of the same things that you are saying.
• 30:08
  You know, because that's just her practice mm-hmm.
• 30:11
  In training.
• 30:12
  And I'm gonna check in with a couple of other trainers after they listen to the, to the story of the podcast, which I would love for you to listen to now that we've done this.
• 30:22
  I'm glad that you didn't beforehand.
• 30:24
  And, and weigh, and they're gonna weigh in too.
• 30:26
  So it's really great to have his perspective and three professional perspectives and, and then my perspective, and maybe at some point we'll have we'll have her perspective too.
• 30:36
  I don't know.
• 30:37
  But yeah, he, he said something and then I last and he said, if I can get it back while you were talking he just said she missed my signals.
• 30:46
  I was telling her.
• 30:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 30:49
  You know, and that's just, that's just us humans.
• 30:52
  It's, it's, it's really hard.
• 30:55
  It is.
• 30:55
  It's hard.
• 30:56
  We, we want to get so far, or we have an agenda or we wanna accomplish this, or, oh, that was good.
• 31:02
  Let's do this.
• 31:03
  And so we have a tendency to wanna get more and more and more find ourselves in the middle of something.
• 31:08
  Yeah.
• 31:08
  Yeah.
• 31:09
  Or like, oh, that went really well, so let's, let's teach this now.
• 31:13
  Instead of saying, that went really well.
• 31:15
  Great.
• 31:15
  Let's stop.
• 31:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 31:17
  That's really, that's just hard for humans.
• 31:20
  It is.
• 31:22
  But that's what he's asking for, and that makes perfect sense to me.
• 31:25
  Like, I mean, he's basically just saying what, what he, what he shared is to me like good training.
• 31:33
  Right.
• 31:34
  It's, it's, yeah.
• 31:38
  But he, he does seem to have this energy of like, yeah, like if, if he doesn't get enough breaks, enough rewards, if it's too fast.
• 31:49
  That could happen.
• 31:50
  It could happen again with anybody.
• 31:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 31:54
  Yeah, that's a little bit of that youngness coming in like a horse that was a little bit more mature might like handle it different.
• 32:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:08
  I'm just gonna kind of pop that into his field, that there are other ways.
• 32:12
  Because he's saying, well, she didn't get my signal.
• 32:14
  She didn't get my signal.
• 32:15
  So the signals could be bigger.
• 32:18
  They could be different, is kind of what I'm telling him.
• 32:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:23
  You know, like there's so many different things that, you know, I'm showing him that he could fling his head.
• 32:27
  You know, something really big that's obvious.
• 32:31
  Right.
• 32:34
  He can stomp.
• 32:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:36
  He p, he paused.
• 32:38
  He's a paw.
• 32:38
  Or you know, hurry up with my grain.
• 32:41
  But that's impatience.
• 32:42
  That's different.
• 32:43
  Yeah.
• 32:44
  That is different.
• 32:45
  That's the hardest thing to ride.
• 32:48
  I mean, like, you know, buck uphill, buck on the flat, but like maybe not the down.
• 32:53
  Well, he was coming to me.
• 32:55
  I think that's what it was.
• 32:56
  I think it was heading towards me and I was down the hill.
• 33:00
  Yeah.
• 33:01
  Yeah.
• 33:02
  But yeah, like, I mean, you know, like horses eventually learn that buck's really not okay.
• 33:12
  Right?
• 33:14
  Like, you know, person gets on their back.
• 33:16
  One of the things you, you know, you kind of ask them not to do.
• 33:19
  I mean, every, every horse has a buck in it, right?
• 33:21
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:22
  You know, every single horse has a buck.
• 33:24
  You people say, oh, horses are, this horse is bombproof.
• 33:26
  There's a buck in there.
• 33:27
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:28
  It's just the right situation, the right stimuli.
• 33:32
  Yeah.
• 33:33
  But, but most horses under saddle know that Buck and Julie not.
• 33:37
  Okay.
• 33:39
  'cause the human can get hurt.
• 33:41
  Yeah.
• 33:41
  Take my own horse, James, for example, like.
• 33:44
  He obviously knows bucking is not okay, but yeah, he's a thoroughbred.
• 33:48
  He had his moment.
• 33:49
  He is bucked.
• 33:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:52
  You know?
• 33:54
  Yeah.
• 33:54
  But, you know, but you know, if someone was to get on him and do, you and then Carissa's gonna if he's to be stubborn at anything, he's stubborn about that.
• 34:04
  All right.
• 34:05
  So noted now the train.
• 34:11
  So it's like if knowing that now I'd be like, oh, can I do what's required of, like if I was to train him, I'd be like, oh, I better really listen.
• 34:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:24
  Right.
• 34:26
  Otherwise he might do a good buck.
• 34:29
  Right.
• 34:30
  Because I, it just feels like he doesn't have a lot of tolerance if he's not given enough time and space to process.
• 34:39
  It's, it, it is interesting and, and I know Chris will probably remember and address this in her podcast, but when she was training him.
• 34:49
  She is a far away.
• 34:50
  So she would come for the whole day and we, she'd do like 20 minutes and give him a break and come and do a little bit more and see if he could do more.
• 34:59
  And he, with a five-year-old brain would often, she was surprised how much he would be able to keep going if he had breaks.
• 35:12
  I think that's all he's saying is I need my breaks.
• 35:15
  So that totally makes sense and it makes sense that he would have the idea from working with her that he would, it would be fine for him to expect that, because that's the pattern that was set.
• 35:29
  He says, I felt very respected then.
• 35:33
  So a lot of it, it's a respect thing to him.
• 35:36
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:39
  Respect me enough to give me breaks.
• 35:42
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:43
  And to see where he is.
• 35:45
  Mm-hmm.
• 35:46
  I mean, like all, you know, all horses would love that, but it just feels like his tolerance is a little bit different.
• 35:52
  Like some horses would just like be grumpy and pushed through, or just keep being confused and to keep trying.
• 36:01
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:02
  And I think just for him, he is like, no, I want, I, I need a, when I need a break, I need a break.
• 36:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:09
  And I think it's a very fair request, but I think it's very clear that that's what he needs and what he, what he emotionally needs.
• 36:18
  And to him it's respect.
• 36:21
  That's a human respecting him.
• 36:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:26
  And he's just very, he's a little strong headed about it.
• 36:32
  There's not a lot of room for negotiation.
• 36:36
  Okay.
• 36:37
  Yeah.
• 36:39
  And so I think, you know, as long as the writer knows that about him and honors that about him mm-hmm.
• 36:48
  He'll be fine.
• 36:49
  Yeah.
• 36:51
  Sounds good.
• 36:54
  Thank you Asha.
• 36:55
  You are welcome my dear.
• 36:57
  Much love to you.
• 36:58
  Yes, you too.
• 36:59
  All I'll talk to you soon.
• 37:01
  Bye.