Latest / The Whitfield Report / TWR Monday From Stand-Up to Storytelling w/ James Dawson

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TWR Monday From Stand-Up to Storytelling w/ James Dawson · The Whitfield Report

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  The right to offend is not some pesky little part of freedom of
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  speech that we have to put up with.
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  It is the heart and soul and lungs of freedom of speech.
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  It is the coursing lifeblood of human process.
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  It is the instigator of liberty and modernity and science and
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  understanding. What a laughingstock today's
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  student leaders are that they can so casually dismiss the
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  right to be offensive without realizing that their lovely,
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  enlightened lives are the gifts of individuals who gave offence.
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  Offensiveness is not just something we have to
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  begrudgingly accept. Offensiveness is the motor of
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  human progress. Now broadcasting from the Right
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  to Offend media studios in sunny South Florida, bringing you the
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  latest in politics, current events, art and pop culture.
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  This is the Whitfield Report live with Sam Whitfield.
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  But giving offense is good. In fact, it's essential.
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  And hello, folks, welcome to today's Monday edition of the
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  Whitfield Report. And by the time you're listening
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  to this episode, this will be the week of Christmas.
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  Merry Christmas to you all or Merry early Christmas, I guess.
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  Happy for you all to be here. Joining me today is Mr. James
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  Dawson, who is in a in a very unique perspective because James
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  is an author who's published a few short stories and is
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  currently working on on a novel, but he hasn't actually fully
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  published a novel yet. And that's kind of a unique
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  perspective because a lot of the authors that I've had on this
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  program before, notably Eric Bishop, I see that James has a
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  few Eric's books in the back. Love it.
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  You know, a lot of the authors I've had on have already
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  published, you know, a few books under their belt, or at least
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  one. Mr. Dawson here is in the
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  process of writing a book, as I understand it.
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  We're talking to him kind of before he makes it big and
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  whatnot, which I know he's going to because he's an awesome guy.
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  And we've both been published in a few short story collections
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  together. So that's awesome.
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  But I want to welcome James Dawson to the program.
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  How are you doing, Sir? No thanks, Sam.
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  I appreciate the introduction. I'm doing great.
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  I appreciate you working on my schedule as as obviously it's
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  not for anything writing related, but the Dawson family
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  calendar is packed and it's a work of art.
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  So I appreciate you juggling around to fit me in for for an
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  interview. So I'm excited to be here.
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  Thank you. Yeah, no, I, I.
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  Appreciate it and I, I appreciate you taking the time
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  it's, you know, trying to find guests to do the podcast like
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  towards the end of the end of the year, like around December
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  is always, you know, it's always difficult because of the
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  holidays and you know. It's like right before.
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  Thanksgiving to basically like, you know, the end of, you know,
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  the year like nobody's available and then.
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  The week before, like the last week of.
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  December I always get people who are like DM ING me like, hey,
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  can I get in on the first week of January?
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  And I'm like, well, I, you know, I don't know yet.
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  I've got like 5 other. People messaging me too about
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  the beginning of the years, but you know, it's, it's all a
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  juggling act with podcasting as well, so I certainly understand.
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  Yeah, I, I think that's just life in general that this time
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  of year is so jam packed with, with events and, and things like
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  that. And do we just working, you
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  know, local family stuff trying to get out to do some of the,
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  the local holiday lights that we like to get out and go see.
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  It's just hard to kind of figure out everybody's schedule and who
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  can meet up when and what days work for, for for what and who
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  doesn't have anything else going on.
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  So it's a, it's a juggling act in, in all aspects of life this
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  time of year. Yeah.
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  Oh yeah. So, well, just to kind of start
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  off, what is your? General background and whatnot,
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  I guess just to to start off so. Yeah, sure.
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  Thanks. Yeah, Ben, let's see.
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  Yeah. My, my day job, I'm, I'm a vice
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  president of marketing for a local credit union here.
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  So. So I work in the executive world
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  of financial marketing. So people always ask my wife
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  like, oh, you're married to a banker.
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  She's like, no, he is not a banker.
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  He is not. I work in the creative side of
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  the financial industry, which has its own storytelling
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  aspects. But as far as the writing world
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  goes, I've been writing in the in the novel world for probably
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  about 10 years now. When I met my wife, I I was a
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  part time stand up comedian, a part time bartender and a part
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  time bank teller. So I had three-part time jobs.
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  When I met my wife, somehow she saw potential in me and off we
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  went. But as you're raising a family
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  and building that lifestyle, telling jokes on the road and
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  and being a comic when you're you're not getting, you're
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  getting paid in a couple of Bud Lights and a half dozen chicken
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  wings to tell jokes in a bowling alley and Eagle Rock outside of
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  LA. You know, it's not a great way
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  to build the family relationship and a dynamic when you're gone.
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  In the middle of the weeks kind of started.
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  I hung up that storytelling aspect of my life and, and but
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  that creative Jews just didn't. It didn't go away.
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  And then we had young kids, you know, you're watching a lot of
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  Pixar movies and Disney movies. And I just, there's still that
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  storytelling aspect and everyone away.
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  So about 10 years ago or nine years ago, something like that,
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  I, I wanted to write a book and, you know, tell, tell some sort
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  of story. And I was kind of looking at
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  lengths of, of, of books that are written and a big giant, you
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  know, thriller felt overwhelming.
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  You know, trying to get 90,000 words down on a page felt like a
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  task that would be a hard mountain to climb out of the
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  gate. So I looked at, you know, middle
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  grade novels are about 30,000. That seemed like an easier
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  jumping off point than then something grander and said we
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  were watching a lot of Pixar stories, Mixar movies, and
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  you've kind of followed that story.
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  They have a certain storytelling pattern Pixar does watching a
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  Pixar movie. So you can kind of get the gist
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  of it. So I wrote a middle grade novel
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  just to see if I could do it and I did it and it sits in a three
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  ring binder down here in the back, back shelf.
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  And three of my 4 kids have read it.
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  The youngest who's seven, I'm sure she'll be next.
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  But you know, that's kind of where that lives.
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  And after I read, wrote that one and you know, I was like, I
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  wonder what's next and why a, you know, young adult novel was
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  50,000 words. And then so I took up the
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  Nanowrimo, the National Novel Writing Month challenge in
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  November, you know, the following year, whatever,
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  whenever that came up next and did 50,000 words and 28 days
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  something just a blistering pace for me and, and, and, and for
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  most writers to, to put that, that number of words down in
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  that short of time. I was getting up at 4:00 in the
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  morning writing till, you know, we had to get up and get the
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  kids out the door and get to the day job, writing on my lunch
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  breaks, stop at the library on my way home to write.
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  And at those 28 days, you know, I, I finished early because I
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  hit the hit the mark couple days early before the end of
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  November. I was fried.
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  I just want to sleep in. I wouldn't mind, you know, just
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  taking a break. And I took a break and I sat
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  down a few weeks later to write. I had lost the whole tone, the
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  whole voice, the story had, the character sound.
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  And I just. I just felt so intimidated
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  sitting there. I would stare at the screen and
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  just like, man, what was going on, this part of the story?
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  And yeah, it should have been close to wrapping up.
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  And I just couldn't. And I just stepped and I just, I
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  stopped. I stopped writing.
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  And that was probably 2018 or so, between 19.
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  And then my oldest daughter, she's 14 now.
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  So yeah, she would have been 9 or 10 at the time.
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  And she just kind of kept asking me, hey, what's up with that
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  story? What's up with that story?
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  You're right. And it sounded pretty cool.
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  It's about a, about a cult that took over like a small mountain
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  village and, and that the whole mountain village just kind of
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  ran by, you know, the had this kind of joyous Santa's village
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  vibe, kind of kind of focused on it had this one hub.
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  It was kind of very Christmas related and, and huge theme.
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  And then, you know, a kind of cult comes in and kind of
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  overtakes the, the city, the, the, the, the town and the high
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  school and stuff like that. But so she has kind of kept
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  pounding me on it. And it was 2020-2021 I
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  discovered Jack Carr. Nice, I.
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  Discovered Jack. I discovered Jack Carr and I
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  don't know, there's an interview maybe maybe he's on Rogan and I
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  had no clue who he was. I I didn't even read that much.
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  I don't really read thrillers at the time and I was listening to
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  his interview and he was talking 100 miles an hour, just so
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  excited, his enthusiasm. I was like, I gotta check this
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  guy out. So I bought the terminal list
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  and and read that and I was like, whoa, this is this is out
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  there. This is this is pretty
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  incredible. It kind of got me excited to
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  write again. His enthusiasm for writing, how
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  he talked about writing, how he talked about this, the the
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  process of it all. And then his book was so
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  engaging. I was like, you know what, I got
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  to finish that. I got to finish that novel.
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  I got to finish that, that that YA novel.
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  So so I started taking the laptop to, you know, our other
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  daughters were doing ballet or whatnot.
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  And I would just sit in the hallway.
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  What you know, what they're doing their practice and, and
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  just crank out and just write. Then I probably filibustered on
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  wherever this scene was, I picked up on it was, it's
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  probably now 8 chapters way too long because I was just trying
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  to remember the voice and just typing away and cranking away at
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  it and then finally picked up again and I finished it and it's
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  way too long for Aya. It's like 70,000 words.
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  So yeah, I've done 0 editing on it, but I think my oldest has
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  read it and then my and my 13 year old son has read it.
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  He probably read it too, you know, and that again, that's
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  it's in three and binder down here.
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  I've done 0 checking in on it. But I think there's some bones
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  and probably both of those if I edit, go back and edit them, but
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  that's still not my natural voice.
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  I I like to swear. I like to talk about kind of
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  more heavy hitting topics and and they have a little more
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  action, a little more violence. So, you know, especially after
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  discovering Jack hard, you know, I want to write a thriller.
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  So I've been working on this manuscript now.
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  It's gone through so many variations and it, I think I
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  finished it originally at about 90,000 words.
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  And then I met David Putnam, who's a crime thriller author.
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  He's got the Bruno Johnson series and a few other books out
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  there, you know, at our Barnes and Noble out here, he's got a
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  shelf and 1/2 in the in the thriller and suspense section.
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  So I met him randomly because the Barnes and Noble is right
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  across the street from my work. And I'll walk there every couple
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  of months. I'll just kind of go over across
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  the street and just walk the aisles and check things out.
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  And, and this particular day, he was sitting there signing,
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  signing books. I talked to him for a while and
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  he gave me his information. He was like, oh, you're a
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  writer. He lives down in Temecula, which
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  is, you know, hour and a half or so from me.
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  And he was going, you know, I run a writer's critique group.
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  You know, at my house. We meet on Thursdays.
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  If, you know, if you're ever interested, reach out.
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  Yeah. I just like.
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  Yeah. OK.
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  And then that was probably. That was really in the year of
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  last year, 2024. And a few months in, I was
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  editing the hell out of this manuscript and just.
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  I think I just realized if I really want to take this
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  seriously, I should ask for help from those that have been there
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  and done it before. Yeah.
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  Particularly when they're prolific and they have, you
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  know, a substantial body of work.
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  And. And he was kind enough to talk
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  to me and he gave me, you know, his contact information.
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  So I reached out to him and said, hey, Dave, you know, I met
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  you, you know, four or five months ago at the Barnes and
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  Noble. We talked a little bit.
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  You mentioned the Rios critique group.
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  What does it cost? What's the process?
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  What not? He emailed me back almost
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  immediately. He's like, it's completely free.
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  It's at my house. We're meeting tomorrow at noon,
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  if you can come down. So I kind of looked at my
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  schedule at work. I was like, I could probably
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  peel out of work a little bit early and head down to Temecula.
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  So I checked, you know, make sure all the kids were set in
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  the afternoon. My wife was taken care of, you
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  know, she, she was aware of it. I was like, I'm going to go down
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  to this writers critique group and you go and you read 5 double
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  spaced pages, essentially 5 to 10 I think it is.
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  And you go and then, you know, just go around the table.
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  Everybody reads if they want to read, and then they critique and
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  they're out. Everybody's reading stuff from
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  memoirs to sci-fi to thrillers to literary novels.
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  There's all kinds of stuff being read at this table.
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  And there's, you know, 7 to 10 people sitting there.
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  And it's just, it was fascinating.
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  And I read and I got some harsh feedback and it was OK though,
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  because I understood that they were coming from a place of
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  encouragement and really trying to make it better.
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  You know, they weren't trying to tear me down.
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  They're like, I'm, you know, they would, they would say what
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  they like first and then, oh, this part your PO VS all over
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  the place. You're, you're jumping your head
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  hopping from this person to that person.
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  OK, I understood that. And then so I went a few times
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  to those and David Putt has been great.
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  I, I met with him for coffee. He just kind of just spilled out
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  all his knowledge of, of how he takes takes on writing and
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  things like that. So, so this novel, he's like,
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  you know what, for your debut novel, if you're going full
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  length thriller, you really want it to be about 70 to 75,000
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  words. You're at 90 now.
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  You got to cut, you got you have to cut.
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  So I then cut this novel down to from 91 to 72.
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  Sent it off to developmental editor, got those back this
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  summer. And that was a harsh, not a
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  harsh reality. It was a good reality.
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  She had a lot of positive things to say about the bones and the
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  structure and the stories and the characters, but there was a
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  lot of growth I had to do. So I got to those development
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  edits that was a bit of a slog, but I got through them.
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  Made some some rewriting some more, picked up the pace quicker
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  in the in the novel first set, second chapters were off and
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  running instead of kind of a slower burn that I had before.
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  But now it's back up to like 82,000.
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  Now I got to cut again and we're getting real close.
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  But I am, I am hopeful and determined to have this thing
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  out in 2026. So, so that's a long journey of
• 15:00
  of where I come from, what my background is.
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  Yeah, no, it's. I took a long way.
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  It's a, you know, it's a process and we all have different ways
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  of, you know, getting where, where we're at.
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  I find it really interesting how you and I both kind of have had
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  the, the Jack car, you know, connection as far as like
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  influencing us try thrillers because.
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  I. Had I, you know, I, I'm sure as
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  you know, as I've, you know, you've seen some, all my posts
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  in the Discord and on social media.
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  I've always been a big James Bond fan, you know, growing up.
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  And so when I was a kid, I would write like spy, you know, kind
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  of like secret agent short stories and then, you know.
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  As I got. Older and got into high school
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  and whatnot. I just didn't have time to, you
• 15:56
  know, write all that much. And then same thing in college.
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  But I had a friend of mine who I took a gap year between high
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  school and college and I had a friend who turned me on to Vince
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  Flynn, OK, who who had who I think he had passed that same
• 16:18
  year like he had, he had passed in like, you know, 2012 or
• 16:23
  something like that. So when I, you know, entered
• 16:28
  into college, Kyle Mills, you know, had taken over the Vince,
• 16:34
  you know, Flynn books and. He was, you know, he was awesome
• 16:40
  and amazing to read, but. When Jack Carr first came on on
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  the scene with the terminal was like in 2018, I was really
• 16:49
  intrigued because a couple of the a couple of the, you know,
• 16:55
  like the real books by and a couple of the thriller critiques
• 16:59
  were like. This this guy is.
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  Going to be in the net the next, you know, Tom Clancy, this guy
• 17:05
  is going to be in the net the next Vince Flynn's Oh.
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  I was kind of like, OK, well, you know, I'm a bit skeptical,
• 17:12
  but you know that like that's a pretty tall, you know, that's a
• 17:17
  pretty tall order. And then I I read the first.
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  Book and I was like about 1/4 way through I was like, wow, if
• 17:29
  this guy can write like, you know, a thrill like this.
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  I want to do, you know, the same thing after after I graduate.
• 17:38
  And so it kind of, I guess it kind of re sparked my interest
• 17:41
  in, you know, pursuing like writing more as like an actual
• 17:45
  thing. So yeah, so it's it's definitely
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  interesting how I mean, Jack's inspired a lot of people to pick
• 17:54
  up the the pen, I think. And then, you know, I've, I've,
• 17:58
  I've self published a few no novellas, you know, which has
• 18:04
  been an interesting process in and of itself.
• 18:06
  So. Real quick, how?
• 18:09
  Are you up to now? Oh jeez, I'm up to.
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  I'm up to seven books total. Like 5 yeah 55 novellas and then
• 18:22
  2 short story collections. OK, that's great.
• 18:27
  Now, so yeah, so. Real quick, if I can if I can
• 18:33
  backtrack a little bit. So what made you decide to you
• 18:37
  came up from the stand up comedy world.
• 18:39
  So what was that like? And yeah, what are?
• 18:46
  There's no feeling in the world like stand up comedy, for better
• 18:48
  or worse, Whether you bomb or whether you tear the roof off
• 18:51
  the joint. It's it's a feeling unlike any
• 18:54
  other. I was small growing up.
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  Now I'm 6 feet now, 175 lbs Growing up, I was small 100 high
• 19:02
  school. I was 4 foot 990 lbs out of
• 19:04
  perm. I was trying not for the
• 19:05
  basketball team. So I thought the perm would help
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  me fit in with the brothers. Yeah, it was.
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  So I had to be kind of a little bit sharp and, and, you know,
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  protective of myself. So, so comedy and humor was kind
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  of my shield back then And, and being able to kind of give back
• 19:23
  a little bit as as high school kids kind of picked on me for
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  myself. I had good friends too that that
• 19:29
  made sure I didn't get my ass kicked or I didn't get thrown a
• 19:31
  dumpster or anything like that. But, you know, like I said, when
• 19:34
  I was 90 lbs that was soaking wet with my backpack on, I was
• 19:37
  just such a small kid. So I think my, my humor helped
• 19:42
  me kind of get it get help me get friends.
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  It helped me, you know, just kind of through that those
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  teenage years. And I'm pretty, I'm a pretty
• 19:50
  quiet, reserved person. Naturally.
• 19:52
  I'm a pretty I'm an introvert for the most part, but I could
• 19:55
  be a very extroverted when the time comes.
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  I have no problems. Public speaking and comedy.
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  People always like, oh, who are the comics that that inspired
• 20:07
  you as a kid? Or, and everyone goes into, you
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  know, George Carlin and and Richard Pryor and Eddie Murphy
• 20:12
  and and all these great comics. And I wish that was the case for
• 20:16
  me, but it was. AI had a A2 sided cassette tape
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  of Pauly Shore. The weasel, the Hey bro, yeah,
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  no squeezing the juice. That guy.
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  There was an older, older kid on our block and he, he had this
• 20:32
  Pauly Shore album and he, he made us copies.
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  Me and and my other buddy, Jimmy Quincy, they were both jimmies,
• 20:37
  Jimmy and Jimmy, and he and I would listen to that tape at
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  night. And it was.
• 20:42
  So, you know, there's, there's this frat boy humor.
• 20:45
  And but that's what I that's what kind of resonated with me.
• 20:50
  And I just, yeah, as I kind of got older and I was kind of
• 20:54
  coming to the end of a high school, you know, starting to
• 20:56
  grow a little bit and just feel more confident, people start to
• 21:00
  tell me, you know, you're pretty funny.
• 21:02
  Like you have a dry sense of humor, you know, you you should
• 21:07
  do comedy. You should try comedy.
• 21:09
  And I just I never really did. I never thought anything about
• 21:11
  it. And I got in my 20s, I was like,
• 21:13
  that's something I do want to do.
• 21:15
  Like I I should check off that that box of of life
• 21:20
  accomplishments is do stand up comedy.
• 21:21
  I think it'd be pretty funny. I have no clue how to do it.
• 21:23
  I have no clue where to go. Some of my favorite comics are
• 21:27
  comics that I can't do any. I can't do their style at all.
• 21:30
  Like like Mitch Hedberg is one of my all time favorite comics
• 21:34
  and from Flint Mitch Hedberg at all.
• 21:35
  He's just very you know, I saw a wino.
• 21:38
  He was he was I saw a wino, he's eating grapes.
• 21:41
  I was like, dude, you have to wait.
• 21:42
  Like just those I super sharp 1 liners.
• 21:47
  I don't have that kind of humor. My humor is very storytelling
• 21:49
  involved and you know, smack it out and, and so when I was in
• 21:53
  college, I failed out of college like 3 times.
• 21:57
  So it took me 8 years to get through college.
• 21:59
  I'm not a doctor. So I was at Arizona State as I
• 22:04
  was wrapping up college and was just I got to try this comedy
• 22:09
  thing, but I didn't want to do an open mic at like a coffee
• 22:11
  shop or you know, VFW or something like that.
• 22:15
  I want to do it at a comedy club.
• 22:17
  And I found a comedy club in Scottsdale that is sign up like
• 22:22
  four months in advance to, to get on the ticket.
• 22:25
  And I did. And it was Super Bowl Sunday and
• 22:27
  a bunch of my boys came out and supported me and I was, you
• 22:30
  know, I'm into comedy this, you know, here we go.
• 22:32
  And and I wrote down my whole act on like a one sheet of
• 22:35
  paper, just word for word. There were no bullet points.
• 22:39
  It was just the whole bit, you know, 7 minutes of of what I
• 22:44
  thought would be stand up comedy and through my back pocket.
• 22:48
  And when it surprised me, I didn't need it.
• 22:49
  I didn't have to pull it out during during my first set and
• 22:51
  there were a couple of decent jokes in there, but I didn't I
• 22:54
  didn't pull the mic out. I didn't touch the mic.
• 22:56
  I just have her. It stood.
• 22:57
  It's how I stood. It was so awkward on stage, but
• 23:00
  you kind of get that you do it once and you get that feeling.
• 23:03
  I prove man, that was that was cool.
• 23:05
  It's fun. But granted, like I said, it was
• 23:07
  80% of the audience were my, were my friends.
• 23:10
  It was a great time. We're having fun no matter what,
• 23:12
  even if I would have sucked completely.
• 23:13
  But you know, it was pretty, pretty good.
• 23:16
  Yeah, good enough, I guess for my first time.
• 23:18
  And then so from there, I just kept wanting to do it that, that
• 23:22
  I would take breaks. And then, you know, that was,
• 23:24
  that was probably 2526 somewhere around there.
• 23:28
  And then I didn't again, didn't, didn't do it for a long time.
• 23:32
  And I was kind of like, I moved up to San Francisco and I was
• 23:34
  living in San Francisco for about 5 years and I was working
• 23:36
  in multi family residential real estate that's bartending at the
• 23:40
  end of Pier 39. And things just weren't.
• 23:42
  Life is kind of falling apart in my early 30s, you know,
• 23:45
  girlfriend broke up with me and all that kind of stuff and.
• 23:47
  Yeah. And I was just like, man, what
• 23:50
  do I really want to do? What gets me going?
• 23:54
  I had stand up comedy always kind of in San Francisco, a
• 23:58
  pretty prolific comedy scene. You could find spots to go up.
• 24:01
  You know, it pretty nice. So I kind of was looking things
• 24:05
  up and this was then maybe, you know, Internet a little bit more
• 24:13
  viable to to kind of find places.
• 24:15
  So I found some spots and just started kind of going up and up
• 24:18
  in San Francisco. But again, life was just out of
• 24:21
  control. And then I moved back down to
• 24:23
  Southern California and a guy went to high school with that.
• 24:26
  I hadn't really talked to much since high school.
• 24:28
  He was doing comedy. And so he reached out to me
• 24:31
  because he had heard through the Grapevine that I had done a
• 24:33
  couple, couple of sets and, and I think he just wanted to ride
• 24:36
  to, to, to get to his, get to his, his gigs.
• 24:39
  But so I, I would start taking the gigs and, and he would get
• 24:43
  me some stage time. And I just started doing it more
• 24:47
  and more. And I did it for two years, five
• 24:52
  to seven nights a week. I hosted a show on 2 on Thursday
• 24:55
  nights at a comedy club and in Claremont by the by all the
• 24:58
  universities just I got pretty good, to be honest.
• 25:03
  I, I could do anywhere. I could do a 3 minute set.
• 25:04
  I could do a 30 minute set. I would always, I was always
• 25:08
  pushing, trying to mix it up, try to get bored, telling the
• 25:11
  same jokes over and over again. You know, I was always trying
• 25:14
  to, I was always writing. I was always, you know, how do I
• 25:17
  make this better? How do I tell that joke better?
• 25:19
  I would think of something new. Well, let's give that a try.
• 25:22
  But then, yeah, like I said, family came up and, and it was
• 25:26
  just time to, to stop. So I didn't do comedy for five
• 25:30
  years. And then a good friend of mine,
• 25:33
  Trevor, he's in, he's in the boy band O Town.
• 25:36
  And he went up in 2019. He was like, and he, he would
• 25:39
  cut a bunch of my shows in Lai would do the Comedy Store
• 25:42
  probably monthly. And, and he would come out and
• 25:45
  support my shows. And, and so he would, he was
• 25:48
  always talking about doing comedy and said he and I know
• 25:50
  each other since middle school and, and high school and
• 25:52
  everything like that. So he finally was going up in
• 25:54
  2019. So I went and watched him at the
• 25:56
  ice house do his first set and he did a great job, great
• 25:59
  studies president, some good jokes and I got my juices
• 26:03
  flowing again because when I left comedy, I, I couldn't watch
• 26:06
  it anymore. I couldn't listen to it anymore.
• 26:09
  I was, I went from being so immersed in it to just, I got to
• 26:13
  step away. It was too, I don't know, it was
• 26:16
  just I just got to turn the page and and focus on, you know,
• 26:20
  building a family, building my career, you know, making sure
• 26:23
  that that those things are taken care of first.
• 26:26
  Yeah. So I did that.
• 26:27
  But then again, just kind of my buddy went up and then then I
• 26:32
  think I discovered Joe Rogan's podcast, but I would just scroll
• 26:35
  for comics that I knew. Anthony Jeselnik.
• 26:37
  I listen to, I listen to Sebastian Mount of Scalco
• 26:39
  interviews, like just these comics that I knew that I used
• 26:43
  to watch, but now it's been five years, like, oh, what are these
• 26:45
  guys talking about? They start talking about that
• 26:46
  comedy process about going up and, you know, hitting shows
• 26:49
  here and there. And it's just, it just kind of
• 26:51
  got me thinking again, like maybe I want to, I want to go up
• 26:54
  again. Like I just want to see what I
• 26:56
  got. And so that was January 2020.
• 27:00
  And I put it out there like, maybe I should go back up again.
• 27:03
  And my buddy Trevor, who went up in in December, he text me
• 27:07
  immediately. He's like, are you serious?
• 27:08
  You want to go up? I'm like, yeah.
• 27:09
  He's like, I got, I got a show in two weeks on Melrose in Lai
• 27:13
  can get you on if you want to do.
• 27:15
  It'd be cool to share the stage with you.
• 27:16
  And I'm like, all right, let's go.
• 27:18
  And so I I I agreed to it and and off we went.
• 27:24
  And the best part was the last time I did comedy, I'd take a
• 27:28
  small break and I went up and it just it, it sucked.
• 27:31
  I, I forgot how it feel felt to be on stage.
• 27:33
  The light was too bright for me. I forgot, I tried new jokes.
• 27:37
  I forgot how to rein it all in because when I was going up all
• 27:40
  the time trying a new joke was it was nothing because I knew
• 27:43
  how to, if it didn't work out, I knew how to pull the audience
• 27:46
  right back into to where I wanted them to go.
• 27:51
  So going back up in 2020 is like, just stick to the hits.
• 27:54
  Just go back, you know, listen to your old stuff, go over your
• 27:57
  old notes and just play the same jokes.
• 27:59
  Don't try anything new and, and go with that and be very honest
• 28:03
  with the, with the audience when you get up there.
• 28:05
  So I did that and, and, but the night before I was really
• 28:08
  sitting there like going over everything and a new joke popped
• 28:11
  in my head. I was like, Oh, I'm going to
• 28:13
  close with this new joke like an idiot.
• 28:16
  But you know, I, I haven't worked it out since, but I still
• 28:18
  think there's some good bones there.
• 28:19
  But it was a fun set. Went out there on Melrose, you
• 28:23
  know, 60 seater little room. You know, there's an ice chest
• 28:27
  in the back where people are getting bringing their own beers
• 28:29
  and having a good time. It was a fun room.
• 28:32
  I thought I'd do about 7 minutes, maybe I end up doing
• 28:34
  15. It was awesome.
• 28:36
  Like just the crowd came along for the ride and there was no
• 28:42
  feeling like just that night. I was just on such a high
• 28:45
  because when the crowds having a great time, they're laughing and
• 28:48
  your jokes are hitting where you want them to hit.
• 28:50
  Truly nothing, nothing better than that on the planet that
• 28:54
  I've felt. So I was like, all right, I'm
• 28:56
  going to start going up once a month.
• 28:57
  My wife's like, yeah, this was awesome.
• 28:59
  This was fun. You look so you had such a great
• 29:01
  time. You look so happy.
• 29:03
  Like, yeah, we should figure we'll figure this out.
• 29:04
  So, you know, you could do this more often.
• 29:06
  And then, you know, global pandemic hit and shut it, shut
• 29:09
  the world down. And yeah, that was that was it
• 29:11
  for five years. But I didn't go up a few times
• 29:13
  last summer, did some open mics and it's a couple comedy clubs
• 29:17
  and and did a couple of shows. So that was that was a lot of
• 29:20
  fun to get back out there again. But I haven't again, haven't
• 29:22
  anything since been focused so much on on writing because, you
• 29:25
  know, not only the manuscript I was talking about, I started.
• 29:28
  I've been multiple short stories, obviously Western tales
• 29:31
  that we're both in right here. Your your story was.
• 29:35
  Great. Your story was great by the way.
• 29:37
  I thoroughly enjoyed it so. Thank you.
• 29:40
  Same, same, same to you, Sam. Thank you.
• 29:41
  After I read after I reread mine to see how how it was, I was
• 29:45
  like, I'm gonna go to Sam's store read your second.
• 29:47
  So that was that was great. Thanks.
• 29:50
  Yeah, I've got I've gotten a lot of compliments on that, that
• 29:55
  character who I put who I put in one of my novellas.
• 29:58
  And I actually your episode is going out, you know, a week from
• 30:05
  when we're we're recording this. But I just interviewed TG Brown,
• 30:10
  who will be on the next episode before before you.
• 30:15
  And he, he was like, oh man, I, I love, I loved her story so.
• 30:19
  I was, I was a bit surprised because.
• 30:21
  I don't want to say. That I wrote that as like a
• 30:24
  throwaway because obviously I put effort in.
• 30:27
  I put a lot of effort, but that short story was originally
• 30:32
  supposed to be a chapter in one of my novellas.
• 30:36
  And then it was, it was one of those chapters that I, I really
• 30:42
  liked, but it didn't it, it didn't work in the book I was
• 30:49
  writing at the time. So I, I didn't throw in the.
• 30:54
  Discard pile. Rather, I was like, you know?
• 30:56
  I'm going to put this. I'm going to put this to the
• 30:59
  side and maybe I can use in the in the next book or, you know,
• 31:03
  something a lot like like, and then when when the Western tales
• 31:06
  thing got announced and I'm like, well.
• 31:08
  What if I try? And and rework this as like a,
• 31:12
  you know, a short story. So I did that, submitted it and
• 31:17
  almost immediately I think was Nate who emailed me.
• 31:21
  Nathaniel Hummel was like, dude, this is this is awesome.
• 31:26
  So, yeah, in regards to comedy, like you picked an opportune
• 31:31
  time, I guess to to kind of, you know, dip out because it seemed
• 31:37
  like there was a period of time definitely like when I was in
• 31:41
  college where political correctness and I don't want to
• 31:44
  get like too political here. But I know you and I kind of are
• 31:47
  on the same, you know, end of the spectrum, political
• 31:51
  correctness like killed stand up comedy for for a bit while I
• 31:56
  was, you know, at least while I was in college, especially out
• 32:00
  in California, you know, where you you couldn't joke about
• 32:05
  really anything because of, you know, trigger warnings and, you
• 32:10
  know, safe spaces and all that. So it's like you it's like,
• 32:15
  yeah, you kind of picked a a good time, I guess to dip out
• 32:19
  and then come back to to colony. Yeah.
• 32:23
  Yeah, I'm definitely glad I, I missed any of that kind of
• 32:25
  stuff. I, I never experienced any of
• 32:27
  it, you know, thankfully. And, and my humor was it, you
• 32:30
  know, mine is more self deprecating than than anything.
• 32:32
  And, and yeah, some of the more, some of the more edgy jokes, you
• 32:37
  know, sometimes they play, sometimes they don't.
• 32:39
  And, and I certainly there was a time I, I went up on a how's it
• 32:44
  Sunday or whatnot. I did a show out in Burbank and
• 32:47
  I didn't hear the comedian Jim Jefferies, Australian comic.
• 32:50
  He's he's pretty big. I did a show and he I went up
• 32:54
  after him, which is never follow these global headliners.
• 32:59
  Because they just smashed it, yeah.
• 33:00
  They smashed the show and I so I went up and I did OK and he was
• 33:03
  he was super nice men in the green room and I went up after
• 33:06
  him and and so I was having this joke about like, you know, my
• 33:13
  liver, you know, I was talking about to be doing drinking.
• 33:15
  I was single at the time. I was in my early 30s, like
• 33:17
  being single and drinking. And so I had this joke like my,
• 33:20
  and, and it just kind of popped in my head like my liver being
• 33:23
  so black, like my liver's so black, you know, XYZ.
• 33:26
  And I just didn't like, I just kind of glossed over it and
• 33:28
  didn't that set. But I was like, man, I should
• 33:30
  have, I got to figure this one out because I think that could
• 33:31
  hit pretty hard. And you know, the roasts were
• 33:35
  kind of were kind of somewhat popular at the time.
• 33:37
  So I was driving home and there's another flappers, the
• 33:40
  one I used to, I hosted a show at had an open mic on the
• 33:43
  Sunday. So I reached out to the, the
• 33:45
  lady that hosts that open mic. Hey, can you squeeze me in?
• 33:48
  Like I got this bit I got to work out like just one joke like
• 33:51
  that's it. And it's about my liver being so
• 33:54
  black and I literally went in there room full, you know 20
• 33:58
  guys, 10 of them are probably black guys and I did 10.
• 34:01
  I did 5 minutes of my liver is so black jokes.
• 34:04
  My liver is so black. It was raised by its
• 34:07
  grandmother. My liver is so black.
• 34:09
  There was a red suit and waits by the phone on draft day, like,
• 34:12
  and I did that for 5 minutes and the look out of his face.
• 34:16
  There were some like a lot of laughs and like, and then a
• 34:18
  black guy went up after him and he was like, man, you have some
• 34:21
  balls, kid. Like you have some balls.
• 34:22
  Like that was, I was like, well, which one was the best one?
• 34:24
  And he told me which one's the best one?
• 34:26
  I'm like, I agree. And so, you know, like it was,
• 34:28
  it was, it was, it was fun and, and you know, no one got
• 34:31
  offended. It was just kind of like, Oh, I
• 34:33
  can't be this guy say, but the comic I always toured with my
• 34:35
  buddy Jamal. He was a black guy.
• 34:37
  Like he, he so we crack jokes on each other all the time and, and
• 34:42
  nothing, you know, nothing was over the line that was
• 34:45
  offensive. Like he was just we laughed and
• 34:47
  we had a good time and he would take me.
• 34:49
  He was like, I got you a spot tonight And I would show up and
• 34:51
  it'd be an all black comedy show and I'd be the one white person
• 34:53
  there. And I was OK.
• 34:55
  Like that's it's sink or swim time.
• 34:57
  And and it was fun and it was not there was nothing dangerous
• 35:01
  about it. There's nothing demeaning about
• 35:02
  it. There's nothing.
• 35:03
  It was just, it was just comedy and and that's that's what was
• 35:07
  great. And and I think that's coming
• 35:09
  back now. You know, where I think, you
• 35:11
  know, kind of the Kill Tony shows where you know, kind of,
• 35:13
  yeah, people making cracking jokes on each other again.
• 35:16
  And you know, it's it's good-natured.
• 35:18
  It's good fun. Obviously there's there's a line
• 35:20
  that can't be crossed. And obviously you don't want to
• 35:22
  demean somebody to the point of ridicule, but you know, sure if
• 35:25
  it's you want to have fun. And if you're having fun and
• 35:28
  they're having fun, you know, humorous humor.
• 35:31
  Yeah, well, you know, the other thing too is like, you got have,
• 35:35
  you know, thick skin with, with, you know, with, you know, people
• 35:39
  making the jabs. Too, and I mean like.
• 35:42
  That's the other thing is like my, you know, my friend group
• 35:45
  and I like we would, you know, we would, you know, roast each
• 35:48
  other and just give each other shit all, all the time on you
• 35:52
  know, stuff. So you know, what's what's
• 35:55
  interesting is, you know, like I have, I have black, I have, you
• 36:01
  know, black friends who will tell like the the most racist,
• 36:05
  you know, sounding jokes out like, you know, other, other
• 36:09
  black people, right? But but it's all it's all in
• 36:12
  good fun and they're and they're not offended.
• 36:14
  But then some, you know, usually it's some white, you know, woman
• 36:19
  will will be offended on their behalf or something.
• 36:23
  And it, you know, that's always, it's like, well, you know, if
• 36:27
  you, if it's like, well, you know, if you want to be a
• 36:29
  killjoy, you know, then maybe like colony isn't for you or,
• 36:33
  you know, something like that. So that's always, yeah.
• 36:36
  Yeah, humor, you know, humor is like anything, it's art.
• 36:39
  It's subjective. But one person finds funny
• 36:42
  another person, you know, will take it offensive.
• 36:45
  And, and, you know, and I think I forget who said it, but the,
• 36:47
  you know, lions kind of know that joke wasn't offensive.
• 36:49
  You found it offensive and, you know, because because one person
• 36:52
  might find it offensive, the only person's going to laugh.
• 36:55
  Yeah. Certain subjects that that I
• 36:56
  would never touch. And you see that with young
• 36:59
  comics, young comics. You know, I say young, I mean
• 37:02
  new, new comics. And like, you know, you know,
• 37:04
  they they try to push the envelope too early, too soon,
• 37:07
  and they don't have the chops for it.
• 37:09
  And it's just not, you know, open mics are tough gigs because
• 37:12
  there's 30 comics and, and it gets old here and people trying
• 37:16
  to tell, you know, rape jokes or racist jokes and they're just
• 37:20
  not good at it. And, and the subject probably
• 37:23
  shouldn't be breached anyway, but they they go for it.
• 37:26
  And you know the the name of, you know, free speech or, you
• 37:29
  know, whatever they want to do as a comic, but you know, you
• 37:32
  can't land it as a as an open miker.
• 37:34
  And that's just well, this is the facts.
• 37:37
  Well, the other. Thing is, like pod is podcasting
• 37:40
  has kind of changed things to a bit because like now even just
• 37:47
  the format of you and I talking like this and you know, and not
• 37:52
  like people can people can crack jokes on podcasts and you know,
• 37:58
  it's the like the format of podcasting.
• 38:01
  I don't want to say it's comedic entirely, but you know, like
• 38:04
  people just they like this. It's like, you know, people have
• 38:07
  conversations, you know, and like when people, you know, hang
• 38:14
  out, they, they crack jokes that there's that.
• 38:17
  I don't know if you've, if you've heard the podcast that
• 38:19
  Nick Mullen did, it's it's called Come Town, which I know
• 38:24
  is like, you know, that's a crude name, but it's, it's just,
• 38:27
  it's three guys just, you know, riffing on, you know, you know,
• 38:35
  just like what interests them. And I mean, it was, it was one
• 38:38
  of those successful comedy podcasts of all time.
• 38:42
  And so the medium is changing, you know, a lot as far as like
• 38:47
  what comedy is the the space definitely is changing, which I
• 38:51
  find interesting as well. So.
• 38:55
  Yeah, you know it. And, you know, I don't know,
• 38:59
  podcasts are great and and certainly have opened up a, you
• 39:02
  know, a lot of people, a lot of information.
• 39:04
  And also it's just nice to meet people.
• 39:06
  It's nice to talk to people. Long form phone phones are down,
• 39:10
  you know, Yeah, phones are off. We're not we're not distracted
• 39:13
  by anything. You know, I'm a bears fan.
• 39:14
  The bears are currently whooping up on the Browns out in the
• 39:17
  other room. Well, hopefully they were they
• 39:18
  were, they were before I jumped on here.
• 39:20
  So, you know, it's it's nice just to step away though.
• 39:23
  And and, you know, meeting people.
• 39:25
  I went to voucher con. This is my my second full
• 39:31
  Boucher con. I went three years ago voucher
• 39:32
  con was down in San Diego, which a couple hours from my house and
• 39:35
  I just went on the Saturday. That's when I first kind of was
• 39:38
  taking writing a little more seriously.
• 39:39
  I had no public profile, but I finished the first draft of the
• 39:43
  manuscript, the crime deal I've been working on and I'm just
• 39:46
  kind of like, oh, let's check this out.
• 39:47
  Went down there and, you know, woke up at 5:00 in the morning,
• 39:49
  drove down. I just checked it out and sat in
• 39:54
  the back and didn't talk to anybody.
• 39:55
  I did meet Jack Carr, which was cool because he was doing a book
• 39:58
  signing which I didn't even know about, which was, he just
• 40:00
  happened to be in town. And I just kind of, it was like
• 40:05
  2 stories as far as you know, where everything was.
• 40:07
  I just kind of walked through one of the rooms and there he
• 40:09
  was doing a book sign. I waited for everybody to kind
• 40:12
  of go through the line and stood in the back and he just, I
• 40:15
  handed him a book to sign. And he didn't even open it to
• 40:18
  sign it. He just because he saw me kind
• 40:20
  of waiting and letting people go in front of me.
• 40:22
  And then he just started asking me questions.
• 40:23
  I tried talking about 1520 minutes.
• 40:25
  It just cools can be tons of questions to me asking me about
• 40:30
  what I do, what my stories about what my what I like to write,
• 40:33
  what I like to read. Well, watch I was wearing like
• 40:36
  we just talked about all kinds of different stuff for 15
• 40:38
  minutes. Yeah, could have been cooler.
• 40:41
  Then signed my book, then took a picture with me and and off off
• 40:45
  we went. And then that that day on the
• 40:47
  way home, I was like, you know, let's talk with my wife.
• 40:48
  Like I think I want to start like a public profile just for
• 40:51
  writing as I kind of start getting more into this.
• 40:53
  And last year I went to voucher con in Nashville for the whole
• 40:57
  set. Had a great time.
• 40:59
  The writing community is pretty special, to be honest.
• 41:02
  I think the, the, the number of writers I've met that are just
• 41:04
  the nicest, most helpful people. And then this year again with
• 41:08
  Patrick on New Orleans. And then I got a few books here.
• 41:11
  So you got Paul White and Adams on Stamp.
• 41:15
  Chris Mullen. I met these guys.
• 41:17
  John Adams I met before. Chris Mullen I met before.
• 41:20
  But then this last year out in New Orleans, we really got along
• 41:22
  well. We had lunches together.
• 41:24
  We hung out quite a bit. Yeah, sessions together, just
• 41:27
  just salt of the earth guys. Super nice, super helpful.
• 41:30
  Everybody kind of pulling for each other, pushing for one
• 41:32
  another, support one another, and just you meet these people.
• 41:35
  Steve Stratton, I know his friend of the program.
• 41:37
  I met him last year and then I ended.
• 41:40
  Up as awesome. Yeah, Steve's like one of the
• 41:42
  nicest human beings I've ever met in my life.
• 41:44
  I met him out in Nashville last year and then a month later I
• 41:48
  was in Colorado for a work conference and I just messaged
• 41:53
  him like, hey, are you around this area?
• 41:54
  Do you live in this area? Like, yeah, I am.
• 41:56
  I'm like, yeah, you want to grab, you know, a bite to eat?
• 41:58
  Like, sure. So he just went, he came over to
• 42:00
  the hotel, picked me up. I we went to dinner, just had a
• 42:02
  great time. And he gave me an arc of
• 42:06
  Caribbean Harvest, his novel, which was great.
• 42:09
  And, you know, so that kind of stuff, Tracy Abramson, Oxy or
• 42:13
  Marcy McCreary, all these people like you meet these authors and
• 42:16
  they're just the nicest human beings.
• 42:17
  It just, yeah, they come from all walks of life, all political
• 42:21
  backgrounds, all kinds of upbringings, all ages.
• 42:25
  And you when you talk about writing and everybody's just so
• 42:27
  nice and just wants to help. And yeah, I'll jump on a phone
• 42:30
  call with you and talk through whatever you're working out and
• 42:32
  what you want to do and, and everything like that.
• 42:35
  And then, you know, you support them.
• 42:36
  It's not that hard to share people's content to, you know,
• 42:39
  try to show a little support. They'll love their way,
• 42:41
  especially when they have helped you along the way or, you know,
• 42:44
  took time to talk to you about what you're going through.
• 42:47
  So well in this community to be honest.
• 42:50
  Yeah. Well, so that's kind of a
• 42:52
  surprising thing for me because. What I like I've been podcasting
• 42:56
  since like 2000 thousand AI. I've been doing like medium on
• 43:00
  podcasts for me, like I've been at this since the beginning.
• 43:05
  And I don't even mean that as like, you know, a brag or
• 43:08
  anything. It's just, you know, I, I got
• 43:11
  into this medium before anyone really knew what it was.
• 43:14
  And. To.
• 43:16
  See how it's grown and really right now we've been in like a
• 43:20
  renaissance and it's really, you know, it's, it's awesome because
• 43:26
  when I started, you kind of had to be in a, you know, well,
• 43:31
  First off, no one really knew what it was for like a real, you
• 43:34
  know, for a really long, long time.
• 43:38
  And then, you know, people were kind of people would kind of put
• 43:43
  themselves into into categories. And now, I mean, it's
• 43:50
  categorized somewhat as far as, you know, you've got, you've got
• 43:54
  to choose a category to put a like on iTunes so that you know,
• 43:58
  people can find and whatnot. But like, now you know.
• 44:02
  People will have. You know, like I'll talk to, you
• 44:07
  know, an author one episode and then, you know the ones they
• 44:11
  show. Like that's usually when I do,
• 44:13
  you know, news and politics and, you know, covering, you know,
• 44:17
  certain events. But then other times I'll just,
• 44:20
  you know, riff on whatever. So there's really no set rule
• 44:26
  anymore. And it's, it's been really
• 44:28
  what's been interesting for me is I didn't really plan it this
• 44:34
  way, but around around the time I started to get into writing,
• 44:39
  you know, more full time was when podcasting started to, you
• 44:45
  know, become a medium for authors.
• 44:47
  So it's, it's been really, it's been really interesting because
• 44:51
  I talked to, I actually talked to Kyle Mills, you know, earlier
• 44:58
  this year on my show before we went on.
• 45:01
  He was like, yeah, this is a, you know, this is a new
• 45:05
  experience for my life authors. We never used to have to do
• 45:09
  podcasts before. And now, like publishers are
• 45:13
  telling us, you know, that like it's a good idea to, you know,
• 45:18
  like podcasting is new interview format.
• 45:21
  So that's, you know, it's so it's been very interesting to
• 45:24
  talk to, you know, people. And then and then I, I was
• 45:29
  talking to the last time I talked to Steve, he was Steve
• 45:32
  was telling he's like you need. To.
• 45:35
  Get Jack Carr on your pot, your on your podcast.
• 45:38
  And I said, well, I said I appreciate that.
• 45:41
  I said I've I've reached out to the you know, I've reached out
• 45:44
  to his team before and they say I don't have enough, you know, I
• 45:50
  don't, you know, my metrics aren't high enough for them to
• 45:52
  be interested, which I you know, there's always that like, you
• 45:57
  know, thing to of yeah, you know, like I think I would have
• 46:01
  a really good, you know, interview with him and I and I
• 46:03
  think he and I would click well, based on what?
• 46:06
  People have said like people are like man, you and you and Jack.
• 46:09
  Have all of the same interests and you know, you would click,
• 46:12
  but you know, there's there's the behind the scenes stuff of,
• 46:15
  you know, of, you know, trying to do the the business, you
• 46:21
  know, side of this where it's like, you know, the nature of
• 46:25
  the nature of this show has been like 1 you know, 1 episode I'll
• 46:28
  be talking to, you know, a very successful author like Kyle
• 46:35
  Mills and then the next episode I'll talk to a complete unknown
• 46:39
  and. This guy.
• 46:41
  And both conversation, you know, and, and what I tell people is
• 46:44
  I, I find both, you know, types to be very, you know, inform
• 46:49
  informative. I think if I only, if I only
• 46:52
  tried going after the big names, then, you know, sure I could, I
• 46:57
  could maybe do that, but I don't think would be, as you know,
• 47:02
  informative. So yeah.
• 47:04
  Yeah, you know, and I, I asked Eric Bishop that because he had
• 47:07
  me on his podcast a couple months back and, and I was like,
• 47:11
  why the hell do you want me on here?
• 47:12
  You he interviews, you know, quite, you know, quite a bit of
• 47:15
  prolific authors and, you know, pretty substantial bodies of
• 47:18
  work. I'm like, why the hell you asked
• 47:19
  me on here? And he was just very honestly,
• 47:22
  you know, you have a different perspective that isn't, you
• 47:24
  know, deep into publishing for a decade.
• 47:26
  You know, you, you get to talk about, you know, the, the
• 47:29
  startup startup spots of it and what you're working on, how you,
• 47:32
  how you kind of plugged away here in these early days.
• 47:36
  And I do appreciate that, you know, it, it adds a new dynamic
• 47:38
  to, like you said, to the learning experience to the like
• 47:41
  I said, yeah, I'm not Kyle Mills, but any stretch of the
• 47:43
  imagination TG Brown, like that guy, He's awesome.
• 47:46
  I did a podcast with my first podcast with him on, uh, Brian
• 47:50
  Persimmons podcast, the anti quote.
• 47:52
  Yeah, he was on there the first time I met him.
• 47:54
  He had a great time on there. So he's a he's a great guy and
• 48:00
  he's and he's turned out a bunch of great, great stuff.
• 48:02
  I was just reading his. I'm sure that's a great thing
• 48:12
  you did with him. So that kind of brings up my
• 48:16
  next question. So you've written a you've, so
• 48:20
  you've ran a few different novels, but you haven't
• 48:22
  published them yet. And I know you're looking.
• 48:26
  I know. That you're looking at like
• 48:28
  different publishers and I, I have to ask, and I don't mean
• 48:33
  this as a criticism or anything, I just out of curiosity.
• 48:39
  Why am you? A lot of authors I know at your
• 48:43
  stage would just self publish the books.
• 48:48
  So what is it about? What are you?
• 48:54
  Seeking with like traditional publishing, I guess that.
• 49:01
  You know, I, I'm not sold on, on either, to be honest.
• 49:04
  Like, like I, I, I met with a hybrid publisher early last year
• 49:10
  about it and that just didn't seem right to me.
• 49:13
  Fork it out, you know, quite a bit of money for what?
• 49:17
  For them to help me publish. What do you mean by a hybrid
• 49:20
  publisher? So it's, you pay them quite a
• 49:27
  bit of money and then they get you into Barnes and Noble and
• 49:30
  the, you know, the bookstores and, and help they, they, they
• 49:33
  bring on the editing team and the market and the, and the book
• 49:36
  cover team and that kind of stuff.
• 49:38
  Yeah. And, and from there, and, and
• 49:41
  I'm so I met with them and I got their proposals and what they
• 49:43
  wanted to do. And I was like, yeah, I'm not
• 49:45
  taking out a second mortgage on my house to get this out.
• 49:48
  I think we could do it for, for better.
• 49:50
  And you know, some of it comes to that kind of old school
• 49:52
  mentality. And I was talking to Eric Bishop
• 49:56
  about this. I'm trying to really change my
• 49:59
  thought process on because book publishing, for whatever reason,
• 50:05
  feels like the only art form that if you go indie, somehow
• 50:11
  you lose credit. But you know, if you're like an
• 50:13
  indie musician, you're, you're the, you're the toast of the
• 50:15
  town. And then when you go to a big
• 50:17
  record label, somehow you're a sellout, right?
• 50:20
  And if you, if you do for an indie, if you make indie movies,
• 50:23
  you're kind of cool and hip. But then once you go to a big
• 50:25
  studio, you know, you're the, you sold out to the big to the
• 50:28
  big guys. But for some reason books have
• 50:31
  this other, the flip side of that where you know, oh, you're
• 50:35
  not able to make it in the publishing world if you went
• 50:38
  indie. But that's that has definitely
• 50:40
  been changing recently. And I've certainly been changing
• 50:42
  my thought process a lot about it, listening, even listening to
• 50:46
  interviews with agents. Clark had a great interview with
• 50:50
  once. Her name is Jessica Berg, who is
• 50:53
  Rose Lit Literary agency and she talks about the author she works
• 50:58
  with. She she tells them you have to
• 50:59
  do both B&D published and work on this other traditional form
• 51:03
  of publishing. So I'm really understanding that
• 51:05
  a lot more and I will like all the likelihood be putting this
• 51:09
  novel out my myself next year. So yeah, that will be the plan,
• 51:14
  but I just want to make sure it's it's as good as it possibly
• 51:16
  can be. And and, and and and, and for
• 51:20
  my, for I've learned a ton through this novel and this
• 51:22
  writing process. For this first one, I, I have a
• 51:25
  couple manuscripts already in the works.
• 51:26
  One, I have a sequel to this one that was up to 60 somewhere the
• 51:34
  60,000 word count and then Google Docs up and delete it and
• 51:37
  it told me it was my fault which made me very angry at Google.
• 51:40
  Yeah, that. Happens had had me switch over
• 51:43
  to Proton for my emails anyway. Yeah, so I have that manuscript
• 51:51
  also I have a standalone that I've been working on.
• 51:53
  It's about 50 thousand 56,000 words in already on the again,
• 51:58
  but I set that aside to to get really focused in on these edits
• 52:01
  on the 1st manuscript. This is it's time and I want to
• 52:04
  enter the the fray of a book publishing to kind of, you know,
• 52:09
  throw my hat in the ring and Start learning the other side of
• 52:11
  it, the book selling side of it to yeah, you know, the marketing
• 52:14
  pieces of it, figuring out those, you know, whether it's
• 52:20
  yeah, how the rest of it works, how that other side of it works.
• 52:22
  Because, you know, you could write and throw things into a
• 52:25
  stack under here in another thriving binder.
• 52:27
  Or I could, you know, step up to the plate and and put it out
• 52:30
  there. For me I was for me the reason
• 52:33
  why. I chose to like self publish the
• 52:36
  first Shadows of Deception book when I what I wrote my very
• 52:41
  first one which my. 1st. One is not.
• 52:44
  Like, I mean, it's, it's good. It's.
• 52:48
  Good. I, I mean, I had to do kind of
• 52:50
  like a rewrite of it after I published like the first volume.
• 52:53
  So now you know, there's like a second edition.
• 52:55
  I I guess for me, because people, people always ask why I
• 52:59
  self published it. For me, it was one of those
• 53:02
  things. Where like I felt like if I
• 53:06
  didn't do it net. If I if I didn't do it, I
• 53:12
  wouldn't. I would just do one of those
• 53:15
  authors who, you know, would show up at a party and was like,
• 53:20
  well, I'm, you know, I'm writing a book.
• 53:23
  And then five years later we're at the same party.
• 53:25
  Well, I'm, you know, I'm still writing that.
• 53:27
  So yeah, so I. I feel that completely.
• 53:32
  I feel that completely with this manuscript that we're working
• 53:34
  on, like I've been working on, it's been a couple of years, you
• 53:36
  know, since I, I finished that first draft.
• 53:38
  And yeah, it does feel like it's taken forever.
• 53:41
  But I also try to get myself a little bit of slack because I
• 53:45
  have a busy life. I have 4 kids.
• 53:47
  I got a job. I, I have, you know, we are, I
• 53:51
  have to write at 5:30 in the morning now that's when my alarm
• 53:54
  goes off and I'm, I'm, you know, squeezing in whatever I can
• 53:57
  before I got to get the kids up. And we get, make breakfast on
• 54:00
  the table and we got to get out the door for school and jobs and
• 54:03
  all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, the rest,
• 54:06
  you know, transpires from there. Afternoons are, are jam packed
• 54:10
  for the other stuff. So it's just I only have a
• 54:12
  finite amount of time to work on this.
• 54:14
  And so I try to get myself a little bit of slack on how long
• 54:18
  it's taking. But also it gets very
• 54:19
  frustrating because like you said, I'm tired of showing up
• 54:21
  and like, Yep, still working on it.
• 54:22
  Yep, still working on it. So that was going to be my next
• 54:26
  question. So you actually.
• 54:27
  Do have like a set writing schedule?
• 54:31
  For the most part, yeah. I, I said, you know, coffee pot
• 54:34
  starts brewing at 4:30. So by the time I get up and
• 54:38
  coffee's ready to go and I'll see the sit at the kitchen table
• 54:41
  or I'll be back here at the office and I'll write until 6:30
• 54:45
  is when I got to get the, the kids up and, and start moving
• 54:48
  and, and get ready for for work and everything like that.
• 54:51
  So it's a, it's a, sometimes it's an hour and if the kids,
• 54:55
  our son was in water polo for a while last year.
• 54:58
  So I was, I would sit at the, at his practice pool on the side of
• 55:01
  the pool deck and write for two hours.
• 55:03
  And that was great. So I'd get that extra time here.
• 55:06
  So, but right now it's, it's predominantly first thing in the
• 55:10
  morning, you know, before the sun's up.
• 55:12
  I'm I'm sitting at the laptop and and hammering away the keys.
• 55:16
  Kudos. To I mean, kudos to you for like
• 55:20
  getting up at 5:30 and being able to like, you know, right,
• 55:24
  like if, if I had to get up at like, you know.
• 55:27
  Like I wake up at 7:00. And, you know, usually, like,
• 55:32
  I'm still, like, brain dead at least until, like, 9:00 AM So
• 55:37
  yeah. If I had to get.
• 55:39
  Up that early, like, you know, I I don't know how I could even
• 55:43
  like get in the shower, let alone, you know, yeah.
• 55:47
  There's days where it doesn't come at all.
• 55:49
  And then there's days where, you know, a good writing sessions,
• 55:52
  like time travel, really like those.
• 55:54
  We get locked in on a good writing session.
• 55:56
  The time just whips away. And also you're like, Oh my
• 55:58
  gosh, I'm I'm if we're late, it's 640 already and I'm 10
• 56:02
  minutes past where I'm supposed to be, you know, getting kids
• 56:04
  up, getting everybody moving and get in the shower.
• 56:07
  There you go. Get my wife a cup of coffee and
• 56:09
  just kind of going from there. But you know, that's, that's the
• 56:12
  time I have right now. And, and you know, maybe that'll
• 56:14
  change, you know, as the kids get older and start moving on to
• 56:16
  other things, maybe I'll maybe the, the calendar will change a
• 56:19
  little bit. But yeah, for me right now it's,
• 56:21
  it's early in the morning and you know, there's nothing else
• 56:24
  going on. The house is quiet.
• 56:25
  The dogs are still asleep. The kids are still asleep.
• 56:28
  Her wife's, she might be asleep or not, but and I'll just, you
• 56:32
  know, sit around and do what I can.
• 56:35
  Yeah, well, I mean, I, I have the advantage of being, you
• 56:38
  know, a single guy of, you know, for right now without any any
• 56:41
  kids and whatnot. And like, and and that's kind of
• 56:45
  like the other, you know, joke I make with my friends that well,
• 56:48
  I want to make it big in writing so that you know, so then, you
• 56:52
  know, once I, you know, have a wife and kids, I already have,
• 56:55
  you know, I would have bank, you know, coming in from my books
• 56:59
  one time, you know, a famous author.
• 57:01
  I don't know if that's actually going to happen or not, but you
• 57:04
  know, like, hey, you know what would be nice?
• 57:08
  You know, the the Jack cars got that saying like I can't
• 57:11
  guarantee you it'll be a success, but I can guarantee you
• 57:13
  it won't be a success if you never do it.
• 57:15
  So yeah, you gotta keep it plugging away and and that's
• 57:18
  kind of what how I feel. So you know, we plug away
• 57:22
  working. What did you think about Cry
• 57:24
  Havoc? I see that that was.
• 57:27
  I haven't read it yet. And, and this is really, this is
• 57:29
  his first novel that I didn't dive into right away because
• 57:32
  I'm, I'm trying. I was trying to get through my
• 57:34
  TBR. You know, I, it came in and I
• 57:38
  wanted to read Supreme Justice because Eric had me on his
• 57:42
  podcast. Yeah, I was reading a couple
• 57:44
  other things. I think I was reading Casino
• 57:47
  Royale. I just started reading Ian
• 57:49
  Fleming this year. The first time I just started
• 57:52
  diving into I got a so I started, I got an old vintage
• 57:55
  collection of of Bond novels that I just started recently
• 57:59
  been picking these up. So I've read, I've read this
• 58:02
  year, I've read From Russia With Love and then Casino Royale
• 58:08
  walking on through those. Audio.
• 58:10
  So I listen to audiobooks and yeah, the the Bond audiobooks.
• 58:17
  Are I mean are fantastic. Nice.
• 58:21
  Yeah, so, so just been trying to work through some of the authors
• 58:26
  that I know personally get through their books a little bit
• 58:30
  faster before I will get the cry havoc because like I said, Jack
• 58:33
  Carr, he certainly got me into this into this world of
• 58:40
  thrillers and and writing. And I have I have all his novels
• 58:43
  for sure. And I like to support him when I
• 58:46
  can. So yeah, I took my dad to his
• 58:49
  book signing last year when Red Sky Morning came out on
• 58:53
  Scottsdale, the poison Pen. So my parents live out in
• 58:55
  Arizona. So I drove out there for one
• 58:57
  weekend and then took my dad to see Jack Carr and we had a good
• 59:00
  time out there. So that was a, that was a fun
• 59:02
  event and, and and whatnot. But yeah, there's so many books
• 59:06
  I want to read. Like everybody keeps producing
• 59:08
  more stuff, you know, whether it's Terrence Leahue or, you
• 59:11
  know, Luke and and Nathaniel, those guys and and everything
• 59:16
  else that people keep churning out.
• 59:17
  And like, man, there's so much to read, which is a good thing,
• 59:21
  I guess. Yeah, well, I, I.
• 59:23
  Mean, I, I mean, I'm always happy to like send out copies of
• 59:27
  books to other people in, in the commute, in the community, you
• 59:32
  know, so like I, I'd be happy to.
• 59:35
  I'd I'd be happy to have. You, you know, beta read my next
• 59:39
  book. You know, I'd love to if you
• 59:41
  want. I don't know if you've read any
• 59:43
  of my other, you know, work at. All.
• 59:46
  I have not, but I have not. But if you got a place for you,
• 59:49
  you want me to start, you send it my way and I'll.
• 59:51
  Yeah, I'll just point me in the first book you want me to read
• 59:55
  and I'll read it. I'll throw it in the queue.
• 59:57
  Yeah, no, I mean, I'm, I'm glad, Yeah.
• 59:59
  I mean, one of the one of the things is like, yeah, I'm, I'm
• 1:00:03
  with you like I have. I've so many books on I, I have
• 1:00:08
  so many books on my TBR pile, you know, as as far as like what
• 1:00:14
  I want to read and there are, there are only so many hours,
• 1:00:17
  you know, in a day and so many days in a month and so many
• 1:00:21
  months in a year, etcetera, etcetera.
• 1:00:25
  So. Yeah, and you want to write and
• 1:00:27
  you want to write and yeah. And you have your own stuff you
• 1:00:30
  want to do. And it's just.
• 1:00:31
  It's yeah, it's a, it's a commitment for sure.
• 1:00:34
  And it's like I I appreciate the the pages I do get to turn and
• 1:00:38
  the authors I do get to support. And yeah, if you, if you tell me
• 1:00:41
  which book to start with the years, I'll, I'll pick it up
• 1:00:43
  and, and. Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a fun
• 1:00:46
  community to be in. It's the the one thing I always
• 1:00:50
  tell you know, new writers starting out.
• 1:00:53
  Is, you know, if you wanted, if you.
• 1:00:58
  Want to like? If you're actually serious about
• 1:01:01
  this, you actually have to put the time in to, you know, you
• 1:01:07
  actually have to put the time in because I've noticed a lot of
• 1:01:11
  people, not everyone, but certainly some people, they see
• 1:01:15
  me interviewing, you know, all these other authors and you
• 1:01:21
  know, getting copies of my of other people's.
• 1:01:24
  Books. And they think, oh man.
• 1:01:26
  You know, Sam's getting all that free and he's talking to all
• 1:01:29
  these cool people. I, you know, I want that.
• 1:01:32
  And it's like. Well, hey, I'm getting those
• 1:01:35
  free. Books, because, you know, it's
• 1:01:37
  not just gifts, they're people send stuff for me to read.
• 1:01:41
  And so, you know, it's more of like a community, you know, we
• 1:01:44
  all, we all exchange stuff. And then, you know, also same
• 1:01:50
  with, you know, interviewing like, yeah, I, you know, I do
• 1:01:53
  love to just talk to people, but it's also we're trying to help
• 1:01:57
  each other out and help promote, you know, it's, it's not, you
• 1:02:01
  know, just because I'm a quote, UN quote famous author, which
• 1:02:05
  is, which is kind of it's weird a little bit because.
• 1:02:11
  In my mind, I'm like, well, I'm. Still just, you know, a nobody,
• 1:02:18
  you know, in the grand scheme of things, you know, like, I guess
• 1:02:21
  like, you know, social media, like that's, that's the other
• 1:02:24
  thing. Like there's a perception in
• 1:02:27
  like what fame is has like really changed.
• 1:02:30
  You know, I might be more famous than I might be more famous
• 1:02:35
  than, you know, person X. But then, you know, I'm not a
• 1:02:40
  Jack Carr, you know, by any means.
• 1:02:44
  You know, I'm, if I'm lucky, I might get the chance to, you
• 1:02:49
  know, meet Chris Pratt, you know, one day.
• 1:02:54
  Yeah, that was a wild about like voucher con.
• 1:02:57
  You know, you're walking through the the lobby bar and yeah, it
• 1:03:01
  was like the first night and I was cruising through and and you
• 1:03:03
  know, there's authors everywhere just sitting around hanging out.
• 1:03:06
  And I walked by 1 table and look down and you know, there's the
• 1:03:09
  author TD Donnelly. He like.
• 1:03:11
  So I was like, hey, James. And I'm like, hey, Tom.
• 1:03:14
  And like, I to me, he's, you know, he's a yeah, he he wrote,
• 1:03:17
  you know, he wrote on the script for Sahara, you know, Clive
• 1:03:19
  cluster knowledge. He wrote on that script.
• 1:03:21
  He's written a bunch of scripts for Hollywood.
• 1:03:23
  He's got a couple books out. And and he's like, like, how the
• 1:03:26
  hell you know me like social media, like, oh, OK.
• 1:03:29
  It's just funny how you know, you kind of, you get known in
• 1:03:32
  this community and, and it's kind of fun and it's, it's cool
• 1:03:35
  that you know. Yeah.
• 1:03:37
  I asked the. Name does go somewhere.
• 1:03:39
  Funny, so funny thing about that.
• 1:03:41
  I actually so one of the people who picked up so so my uncle, my
• 1:03:52
  light uncle used to collect Playboy magazines.
• 1:03:55
  So when he so when he passed, I and I inherited his stash in a
• 1:04:00
  few in a few years ago, one of the Playmates actually did like
• 1:04:04
  a podcast time on history of Playboy.
• 1:04:08
  So I had her on my podcast just to talk out like, you know, what
• 1:04:13
  her experience was and whatnot. And so she actually picked up
• 1:04:19
  one of my books and was like promoting it.
• 1:04:22
  And so I, I started getting all of this, you know, all of these
• 1:04:27
  messages, you know, from people in that community who were like,
• 1:04:32
  you know, if, if the magazine were still in print, like you
• 1:04:36
  should have, you know, submitted your, you know, short stories in
• 1:04:39
  there. And so it was like, it was like,
• 1:04:42
  wow, you know, that's, that's cool.
• 1:04:44
  And then there, you know, there's actually a reference to,
• 1:04:48
  you know, 1 of playmates in, in cry Havoc because, you know, it,
• 1:04:53
  it's part of the Vietnam. So people were messaging me
• 1:04:56
  like, Hey, did you catch that reference or, you know, stuff
• 1:05:00
  like that. So yeah, you know, you never
• 1:05:02
  know who you're going to run into, you know, in the author
• 1:05:07
  community. So it's it's, it's been a very
• 1:05:10
  cool experience, so. For sure, yeah.
• 1:05:13
  Condolences on your late uncle by the way, I.
• 1:05:15
  So you know, you wrote a very touching post about your uncle
• 1:05:18
  and and that I also had a late uncle about 10 years ago that
• 1:05:22
  passed away also collected Playboys and his collection went
• 1:05:26
  to his I believe my my cousin. So he you know, I talked to my
• 1:05:29
  cousin about daily so yeah so condolences out to your uncle.
• 1:05:33
  I certainly know what it's like to to lose somebody you're close
• 1:05:36
  to in in that, in that, that realm, in that space when
• 1:05:39
  they're involved. Yeah, no, I I appreciate it.
• 1:05:43
  You know he would. He was also a A.
• 1:05:44
  Firefighter and I I think I posted this on Facebook too, but
• 1:05:49
  his his far home is actually it sits right over over my desk so
• 1:05:56
  too. So I'm actually looking at it
• 1:05:58
  right now, as you know, as we're talking and you know, he, I, I
• 1:06:06
  mean, I'm, I'm probably going to do like a fuller length podcast
• 1:06:10
  on his life because he had a pretty amazing life.
• 1:06:13
  But he was also, he was, he was one of the ones who, you know,
• 1:06:17
  when I was a kid, he, you know, he encouraged me to, you know,
• 1:06:22
  pick up the first James Bond, you know, novels.
• 1:06:27
  And, you know, I, I was one of those, I was one of those kids
• 1:06:32
  where, you know, young adult literature at the time in the
• 1:06:37
  2000s just was like, it was really predictable and just
• 1:06:41
  really, you know, it was, it wasn't anything that captivated
• 1:06:47
  my attention. And so, you know, he was one of,
• 1:06:52
  he was one of the ones where what, you know, well, I know you
• 1:06:55
  like them. I know you like the movies, you
• 1:06:57
  know, the James Bond movies. You might like the books too.
• 1:07:00
  And they're not. Super.
• 1:07:02
  Long either, that's the other thing is, you know, getting,
• 1:07:06
  getting through a 500 page, you know, novel to me at least,
• 1:07:12
  seemed super daunting. And now even as a writer, like
• 1:07:17
  my, my books aren't super long either.
• 1:07:19
  So I, I think that's the other thing is, you know, reader
• 1:07:23
  appetites are kind of changing too.
• 1:07:25
  We're kind of going backwards. Yeah.
• 1:08:00
  Yeah, I mean, look, I, you know, the the whole thing with
• 1:08:04
  Veritas, that was cool too. Is like I get, you know, Veritas
• 1:08:08
  is the only, is the only outlet that I've, you know, that I've
• 1:08:12
  submitted to that has published, you know, published my other
• 1:08:17
  work. I mean, I mostly, I've submitted
• 1:08:20
  other places and I and I've and I've, you know.
• 1:08:23
  Self published stuff that like. That's the other thing too, is
• 1:08:25
  if. Is if you don't get picked up
• 1:08:28
  anywhere, then you know, you might say, OK, well, you know,
• 1:08:31
  I've tried everything. You know, it might be time to
• 1:08:35
  self publish. The other thing too is, you
• 1:08:40
  know, I think a lot of publishers, they see that, you
• 1:08:44
  know, you have published stuff. And so then when you submit
• 1:08:48
  stuff, they might be able to say, well, James actually has,
• 1:08:52
  you know, written stuff. So he actually.
• 1:08:54
  Knows what he's. Doing so, that's helpful too.
• 1:08:59
  You know there's no one way to go.
• 1:09:01
  About this is the thing I've learned so.
• 1:09:42
  Yeah, yeah. That's that's the other thing
• 1:10:00
  though too that, you know, has kind of been that's something
• 1:10:07
  that like I'm still trying to navigate.
• 1:10:09
  Not so much the. Price, the price range, it's
• 1:10:11
  like, you know. You sell buck for. $20 on Amazon
• 1:10:17
  and and then, you know, for a print copyright and.
• 1:10:21
  And I always look at people. Who are like, well, you know.
• 1:10:24
  Sam, why are you? Pricing the book at $20, you
• 1:10:27
  know, in this, in this, you know, economy.
• 1:10:30
  And it's like, well, I'm not actually making $20, you know, P
• 1:10:36
  you know, your, your average person, they, they think that
• 1:10:39
  we're making, you know, the full, you know, 10 or 15 or $20
• 1:10:44
  or whatever it is off the copy. And it's like, well, no,
• 1:10:47
  regardless of whether or not you're doing self, you know,
• 1:10:51
  publishing or, you know, even traditional publishing, you're
• 1:10:55
  getting a, you're getting a fraction of what the, of what
• 1:11:00
  the book sale actually actually is.
• 1:11:05
  The reason I you know, priced up at like you know, 1520 dollars
• 1:11:09
  depending on the on the book length is so.
• 1:11:13
  That I can actually make like, you know, $6 or, you know, and
• 1:11:16
  have like have like a royalty that is actually worse, you
• 1:11:21
  know, is actually like worth something as opposed to, you
• 1:11:24
  know, just $0.75 or something or something.
• 1:11:31
  You know, it's, it's the economics too.
• 1:11:33
  And I, I think, I think more people are getting aware of
• 1:11:35
  that. But it, you know, it's still
• 1:11:37
  like explaining it. And I get it, like the economy
• 1:11:39
  isn't great right now, but that's also why I tell people
• 1:11:43
  like, maybe instead of. You know, supporting Stephen
• 1:11:47
  King, who already has, you know, millions of dollars maybe gotten
• 1:11:53
  support and Eric Bishop or you know, a James Dawson or you
• 1:11:56
  know, someone who you know, was a smaller author who could, you
• 1:12:00
  know, use the support you know, so.
• 1:12:06
  Well, Sir, is there anything else that you want to I, you
• 1:12:11
  know, I know that you're still in the process of writing and
• 1:12:15
  stuff. So I'm not sure what you know,
• 1:12:17
  if there's anything to really promote, but you know, where can
• 1:12:22
  people find find you at And you know, kind of.
• 1:12:26
  What's next for you, I guess? Yes,
• 1:13:24
  yeah, yeah, please do. I would love to.
• 1:13:27
  You know, talk to you more about you know, the the books you know
• 1:13:31
  specifically. But but like I.
• 1:13:32
  Said, I mean, I think having you on to kind of talk out, you
• 1:13:36
  know, the start, you know, process where you're at now, I,
• 1:13:40
  I think it's super valuable. You know, I really want to thank
• 1:13:44
  you because a lot of authors, they don't, they don't want to
• 1:13:48
  talk about their process until they have, you know, something
• 1:13:53
  done because, you know, they have anxiety or whatever, which
• 1:13:57
  I understand. But, you know, I really think
• 1:14:00
  it's helpful for people to, you know, hear about the process.
• 1:14:03
  Well, it's kind of work in process.
• 1:14:05
  So I appreciate you taking the time to share your input as
• 1:14:09
  well. Yeah.
• 1:14:13
  So have a Merry Christmas, Sir, folks, I really appreciate you
• 1:14:18
  for tuning in and listening to this chat with James and I.
• 1:14:24
  And if you're enjoying this, please subscribe on Spotify and
• 1:14:30
  Apple podcast. If you're viewing this on
• 1:14:31
  YouTube or Rumble, like comment and subscribe as they say, and I
• 1:14:39
  will link things to I will link James is socials and website in
• 1:14:46
  the profile in the show description.
• 1:14:49
  And then, as always, you can find all my links in the
• 1:14:53
  description notes as always. And like I said, folks, we're
• 1:14:59
  going to air this Christmas week, I guess.
• 1:15:01
  So Merry Christmas tab 1 and thanks for tuning in.
• 1:15:05
  So take care. The right to offend is not some
• 1:15:15
  pesky little part of freedom of speech that we have to put up
• 1:15:18
  with. It is the heart and soul and
• 1:15:21
  lungs of freedom of speech. It is the coursing lifeblood of
• 1:15:25
  human progress. It is the instigator of liberty
• 1:15:29
  and modernity and science and understanding.
• 1:15:32
  What a laughingstock today's student leaders are that they
• 1:15:37
  can so casually dismiss the right to be offensive without
• 1:15:40
  realizing that their lovely, enlightened lives are the gifts
• 1:15:45
  of individuals who gave offence. Offensiveness is not just
• 1:15:50
  something we have to begrudgingly accept.
• 1:15:53
  Offensiveness is the motor of human progress.
• 1:15:57
  Thank you for watching the Whitfield report live on the
• 1:16:00
  Right to Offend Media Network. Make sure to check out Sam's
• 1:16:04
  books on Amazon, Audible, and Kindle.
• 1:16:07
  You can follow Sam on X at Sam W under score, NGC and the Right
• 1:16:14
  to Offend media Network at RTO Media.
• 1:16:19
  Like, comment, subscribe and share with your friends.
• 1:16:23
  And until next time, God bless. God save this great nation.
• 1:16:29
  God, freedom, legacy, in that order.